They likely are 5 axis parts. Just look at the part in question in the original comment, not only do you have the flange itself, but if you trace it's corner down to where the oil passage is, there's a peak between two machined surfaces below the flat of the plate's face; andbeyond this, the inside of that peak (in relation to the part's center) also has some gnarly sculpting on it. This kind of job would take way too many operations and way too much time on a 3 axis machine, at least for any reasonable business model; as a hobbyist or garage shop, sure, but as an actual business producing these at any amount of demand, a 5 axis is a no-brainer investment. I wouldn't be surprised if their machining method doesn't mirror Rob's in the beginning. Plane the front and likely hog out the basic shape, drill the perpendicular stud holes, then use those holes as a fixture to do the rest of the machining. Except on a 5 axis you can get to every other face and transition needed to mill the part; and on a part without a lot of coplanar surfaces, a lot of perpendicular surfaces, and a lot of sculpting, this is where 5 axis makes the most sense, just from setup and cycle time alone. Individual tool counts are probably a lot lower as well, one hogging bit, one finishing bit, maybe a set for holes depending on diameter differences, then a typical 60° included angle bit for thread milling, with the only potential additional being a face or shell for quickly planning the few flat surfaces. A good process is highly, highly optimized.
Don't use ball bearings, use double acting tapered bearings (one of the bearings and the other regular rollers). More expensive, but they do double work. Regular bearing work and thrust bearing work, from both directions.
@@AutismusMaximus You put the double acting one at the gearbox, and it's the master for the whole affair, and the rest are roller regulars (not the needle bearings you're usually used to see, but caged roller, maybe something like a Timken N (RIN, RN). No taper. When in play, they have a margin of error (that you can select based on which bearing you choose) that allows for expansion, in the vertical plane (rotation axis). This is how some old double row, radial piston engines had their cranks fixed in place. You should see double screw ones, those were fun to plan out. If they could make such complex shituations work back then, then Rob (with the help of a bearing rep of the company he'll choose) will have no issues. If he asks them, they can even tell him exactly what bearings to use where, down to the composition based on temp, oil, and play found inside his engine. Sidenote: When i changed my brother's D10 bearings to better than OEM, SKF sent an engineer over. And while indeed the cost of the bearings might've "accented" that, the dude was more than gracious enough to speak with me a whole day to choose and figure out what's what based on the climate the machine was stuck in, the type of dust found in the fields it worked in and even minutia like how much work time is expected and how much we wanted to get out of those bearings (lifetime).
Just looked at their website. Pretty nice stuff there. Each plate are 4300$ though so I guess it's about 30k$ CAD motor. Maybe more like 40k actually. I like the motor, the sound and all, but I prefer watching you do it! :D
@@Anon.G It's definitely on par with big boy LS-based engines at those power levels. Not some guy doing it in his garage with a junkyard block, ebay turbos, and crossed fingers, but a legit 2000hp LS from Borowski, Nelson, SME, etc. is $40k+ all day long.
@@Anon.Gthat's just the engine. It doesn't make 2000hp NA. Overall it's probably like 60-70k overall on a stand, and that DIY and not even in a car yet. I think Rob can do it but this dude is not regular dude. He has HP in his brain that most people don't have. While inspiring, not realistic for majority of people.
Multiple people going at this is what we all want. Competition is the mother of innovation, the real one. So BP making those rotors is gonna kick Rob's butt ot make even better.
Not really....you/we just were not shown it. Some of the stuff you read about in the 30/40/50's engineering magazines were utterly bonkers, they just went black.
@@danstewart8218Are you making the claim that 30/40/50s machining technology and techniques is anywhere close to one’s today in 2023? That’s fucking wild man. Maybe sit this one out.
@@dooby1445 He is not saying that they were the same and that shows in reliability, but that for the time they somehow managed to design multiple mechanical machined pieces of art
Rob things to add to your arsenal is a set of gauge pins for accurately measuring your dowel holes and a micrometer to measure your dowels. Also having gauge pins it'll assist you measure point to point on hole patterns because you have a known OD pin and you can measure the outside of 2 holes and find center distance accurately.
New to the channel but love your work. In thinking of putting a rotory in my BRZ. Uf you guys ever make a 2 or 3 rotor engine creight ill be the first to buy one
Fix the o-ring issue by printing/CNC a jig the same shape as it will need to be on the irons and storing the o-rings on the jig. The o-ring will take up the shape (for the most part) over a couple of weeks and prevent the movement and pinching on assembly. You can speed up the process by heat carefully heat cycling the o-rings a few times on the jig. You could also print an assembly jig so you could get alignment perfect (pre-jiggle)above the seals.
I can't wait to see EGT differences between this and the old engine! All that extra cooling through the plates will help dramatically! Let's GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, I wish I could just finish building my m50b30 compound twin turbo 700hp engine and you're here finishing what is probably the ultimate 4 rotor build from scratch. I wish I could afford to throw more at my build but everyday I get more and more underwater. Maybe someday.
I daydream a lot about ever building a rotary. The first 4 minutes of this video is 8 months salary and isn't even a quarter of the build. Maybe I can daydream for another 30 years.
Looks like I'll be going billet when my motor finally gives up the ghost. No doubt Rob has had a massive POSITIVE impact on the rotary community and the car community in general. Love the transparency and logical explanations behind everything. Really hits home for those of us that build our own vehicles or have a background in building cars.
Rob's absolute dedication not only to build the most insane 4 rotor but to also sharing the every bit of knowledge he gathers from it is the best❤ . Keep it up the good work. We love you rob ❤.
Damn the external oiling machine work is amazing. Solid dowels and external oiling ftw. I've been checking out their 3 rotor plate for longer than I want to admit haha
you can make a hardenestest with a centerpunch. at least you can compare materials if you are able to hit the centerpunch with the same force. i thought this could be an interesting tip for you. good luck. I`m watching you :-
What kind of tolerances are considered for full billet aluminum? Probably a good thing the dowels are on rhe loose side. Also, please tell us this is going in the C8...
I wonder if Rob has ever looked into getting DLC (diamond light coating) on any components like gears or any surfaces that experience a lot of stress and wear it’s been making pretty crazy waves in high horsepower and high stress platforms and according to what I’ve seen, it makes pretty substantial improvements on reliability and efficiency.
Getting Rob Dahm nerding the F out on cars, followed by Adam Savage nerding out on machining? All I need is a Project Binky update, and I can die a happy man.
Love everything you’re doing. Ran across a cnc video and thought about your projects. And thought I’d share. Hopefully it’s helpful. I’m pretty sure you’ve probably seen it but throwing it out there. Their RUclips is titans of cnc machining. $50m part.
If Billet Pro is 7075, it is not distorting...or at least not as much as the 5000 series (hopefully 5083). I know 7075 does not exactly stay mint over time, so maybe it is 6083. That would be lame.
So..very new to the rotor world..but when you talked about a detonation event there on the side of the plate..is there accessories right next to that wall/side of motor(assembled) that would stop you from bulking up more material outside the doweling to add strength?
I love how far Rob has gotten. i remember people were giving him crap at sema when he first showed his project idea of the four rotar engine. Love the motivation he has and the fact he didn't give up on it.
Random question but how long does it take to pull a rotary? I’m looking at working a deal on an rx8 and want to test fit one of my i6 blocks and put the renesiss back in before doing the full swap.
With that much cooling going on behind the plate surface, it's going to be harder to get accidental detonation. Maybe that's the thought behind the smaller amount of material near the dowel?
There is nothing better than working a 10-hour day and coming home to a new Rob Dahm upload. Cheers.
69 reactions… nice
Holy shit I just did this 😂😂
Lucky, just got off a 16 and have to be back in 8.
@@Big_ol_bass you don't have to go back lol
Maybe coming home early instead of working 10 hours AND there is a rob Dahm video waiting?
That seems like it could be better. Lol
That's an insane amount of machining. I don't even want to think of what the cycle time for that one mounting flange at 8:15 was...
@@mostlymotorizednot necessarily, these could easily been done on a 5 axis. That would also make porting a lot easier and a lot faster
They likely are 5 axis parts. Just look at the part in question in the original comment, not only do you have the flange itself, but if you trace it's corner down to where the oil passage is, there's a peak between two machined surfaces below the flat of the plate's face; andbeyond this, the inside of that peak (in relation to the part's center) also has some gnarly sculpting on it. This kind of job would take way too many operations and way too much time on a 3 axis machine, at least for any reasonable business model; as a hobbyist or garage shop, sure, but as an actual business producing these at any amount of demand, a 5 axis is a no-brainer investment.
I wouldn't be surprised if their machining method doesn't mirror Rob's in the beginning. Plane the front and likely hog out the basic shape, drill the perpendicular stud holes, then use those holes as a fixture to do the rest of the machining. Except on a 5 axis you can get to every other face and transition needed to mill the part; and on a part without a lot of coplanar surfaces, a lot of perpendicular surfaces, and a lot of sculpting, this is where 5 axis makes the most sense, just from setup and cycle time alone. Individual tool counts are probably a lot lower as well, one hogging bit, one finishing bit, maybe a set for holes depending on diameter differences, then a typical 60° included angle bit for thread milling, with the only potential additional being a face or shell for quickly planning the few flat surfaces. A good process is highly, highly optimized.
@@xaytanathese are done on a vertical 3 axis machining center with a 4th axis add on. These billets are from Australia. It’s done on solidcam.
Don't use ball bearings, use double acting tapered bearings (one of the bearings and the other regular rollers). More expensive, but they do double work. Regular bearing work and thrust bearing work, from both directions.
Bump
Wouldn't this make it a lot harder to get the clearance of the main thrust bearings right, especially when the engine is hot?
@@AutismusMaximus You put the double acting one at the gearbox, and it's the master for the whole affair, and the rest are roller regulars (not the needle bearings you're usually used to see, but caged roller, maybe something like a Timken N (RIN, RN). No taper. When in play, they have a margin of error (that you can select based on which bearing you choose) that allows for expansion, in the vertical plane (rotation axis). This is how some old double row, radial piston engines had their cranks fixed in place. You should see double screw ones, those were fun to plan out. If they could make such complex shituations work back then, then Rob (with the help of a bearing rep of the company he'll choose) will have no issues. If he asks them, they can even tell him exactly what bearings to use where, down to the composition based on temp, oil, and play found inside his engine.
Sidenote: When i changed my brother's D10 bearings to better than OEM, SKF sent an engineer over. And while indeed the cost of the bearings might've "accented" that, the dude was more than gracious enough to speak with me a whole day to choose and figure out what's what based on the climate the machine was stuck in, the type of dust found in the fields it worked in and even minutia like how much work time is expected and how much we wanted to get out of those bearings (lifetime).
@@aserta Got it, thank you for the explanation!
@@aserta I love when I find hidden gems of comments like these under youtube videos. Thank you for the extensive explanation. Fascinating stuff
Ive never clicked on a notification so fast in my life
😂 me too man
I woke up for this
Me too
Same
Premature click.
Rob Dahm might just be the only bloke outside of Oceania doing Rotarys right. Mate, you NEED to come to Australia 🇦🇺
There’s this tiny little island full of Spanish speaking ppl that have the fastest ones 💪🏼
Misfire Garage is doing some good stuff to
What's that shop in straya that has been building badass rotary cars for a long time? I can't think of the name but if i hear/read it I'll know.
@@Berm_Blasterpac performance?
Yeah let's completely ignore Puerto Rico! 🤣🤣
I can only imagine what beautiful music this monster will make once it's built.
I would love to see a time lapse of these parts being machined, some beautiful work
Simon is the best. Love that you guys are working together.
I love that Hurt is doing the cheap build. This will be fun to watch. Thanks
who is hurt
@@jameskirkpatrick36 that's Hert, but that's how engines call him - hurt
Just looked at their website. Pretty nice stuff there. Each plate are 4300$ though so I guess it's about 30k$ CAD motor. Maybe more like 40k actually. I like the motor, the sound and all, but I prefer watching you do it! :D
I feel like 40k isn’t that bad for 2000 horse power
it is cheap for what it is... and if you mess up it is less you need to replace unless you mess up big time.
@@Anon.G It's definitely on par with big boy LS-based engines at those power levels. Not some guy doing it in his garage with a junkyard block, ebay turbos, and crossed fingers, but a legit 2000hp LS from Borowski, Nelson, SME, etc. is $40k+ all day long.
@@daedalus_20v thanks for the info
@@Anon.Gthat's just the engine. It doesn't make 2000hp NA. Overall it's probably like 60-70k overall on a stand, and that DIY and not even in a car yet. I think Rob can do it but this dude is not regular dude. He has HP in his brain that most people don't have. While inspiring, not realistic for majority of people.
Multiple people going at this is what we all want. Competition is the mother of innovation, the real one. So BP making those rotors is gonna kick Rob's butt ot make even better.
It's always a good day when Rob Dahm posts a video.
Those things are a work of art. Technology of today's machined parts were unheard of not long ago.
Not really....you/we just were not shown it. Some of the stuff you read about in the 30/40/50's engineering magazines were utterly bonkers, they just went black.
@@danstewart8218Are you making the claim that 30/40/50s machining technology and techniques is anywhere close to one’s today in 2023? That’s fucking wild man. Maybe sit this one out.
@@dooby1445 He is not saying that they were the same and that shows in reliability, but that for the time they somehow managed to design multiple mechanical machined pieces of art
So to conclude... not unheard of but certainly harder to achieve
That is the perfect code for the lock and very on brand for Rob to forget it
he was genuinely surprised Joel could remember lol classic Rob
Rob things to add to your arsenal is a set of gauge pins for accurately measuring your dowel holes and a micrometer to measure your dowels. Also having gauge pins it'll assist you measure point to point on hole patterns because you have a known OD pin and you can measure the outside of 2 holes and find center distance accurately.
The water jacket size increasing the weight of the engine would be truly hilarious! Love your work, Rob!
Setting the Bar is A Master's Work 👽👍🏻✨
Would also love to see the most powerful one-rotor you could make
Ive been waiting for one, be sick in a Kai car
Dodge challenger 1 rotor with 3 compound turbos and spray.😂
New to the channel but love your work. In thinking of putting a rotory in my BRZ. Uf you guys ever make a 2 or 3 rotor engine creight ill be the first to buy one
Nice to see a ProMaz on the channel. Excited to see how the Dahm Genius is going to make it better!!
All that shiny machined aluminum looks EXPENSIVE.
Lol "you can't un-open Pandora's Box"
I believe there's a word for that...
You know your an engineer when you call an arrow, a vector
Fix the o-ring issue by printing/CNC a jig the same shape as it will need to be on the irons and storing the o-rings on the jig. The o-ring will take up the shape (for the most part) over a couple of weeks and prevent the movement and pinching on assembly. You can speed up the process by heat carefully heat cycling the o-rings a few times on the jig. You could also print an assembly jig so you could get alignment perfect (pre-jiggle)above the seals.
I can't wait to see EGT differences between this and the old engine!
All that extra cooling through the plates will help dramatically! Let's GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, I wish I could just finish building my m50b30 compound twin turbo 700hp engine and you're here finishing what is probably the ultimate 4 rotor build from scratch. I wish I could afford to throw more at my build but everyday I get more and more underwater. Maybe someday.
Bought time someone built a proper 4 rotor with matching primary ports on the end plates. That was also my goal.
I just want my 350-hp two-rotor to be indestructible lol
Don't detonate. There, a motor that will last ;)
@@RedBatRacing and @baribari600 And proper lubrication (a good advice for other uses too 😜)
What a time to be alive, motorsports technology and development have come a long way in the last decade.
I daydream a lot about ever building a rotary. The first 4 minutes of this video is 8 months salary and isn't even a quarter of the build. Maybe I can daydream for another 30 years.
there's so much to talk about with this build... NOTHING GOT STOLEN!!!
I would love to see a long build video of both engines!
Looks like I'll be going billet when my motor finally gives up the ghost. No doubt Rob has had a massive POSITIVE impact on the rotary community and the car community in general. Love the transparency and logical explanations behind everything. Really hits home for those of us that build our own vehicles or have a background in building cars.
Wow just the bling of what they milled out is stunning... But to have the level of performance to back up the "pretty" ... Daaaamn!
ever since I saw mad mikes video of billet pros line up i knew you would get your hands on one
Rob's absolute dedication not only to build the most insane 4 rotor but to also sharing the every bit of knowledge he gathers from it is the best❤ . Keep it up the good work. We love you rob ❤.
love all the info!
Damn the external oiling machine work is amazing. Solid dowels and external oiling ftw. I've been checking out their 3 rotor plate for longer than I want to admit haha
Bruhhh this banger drops right before my finals 😭
Rob uploading makes my day after a long ass day.
While I'm not a rotary fan boy , I can still very much appreciate the mechanical nature of your videos . 👍
you can make a hardenestest with a centerpunch.
at least you can compare materials if you are able to hit the centerpunch with the same force.
i thought this could be an interesting tip for you.
good luck.
I`m watching you :-
So stoked to see this bro and loving how you’re doing the side by side comparison with Herts build! Keep up the excellent work 💪🏻
So goshdahm excited for this double build, and learning the differences as we go!
I had a manufacturing processes with cnc programming class in college. Those "irons" are absolutely top notch!
Lol 44sec posted and already others comments love all the content Rob thank you for all you do!!!!!!❤
So excited for this build
What kind of tolerances are considered for full billet aluminum? Probably a good thing the dowels are on rhe loose side. Also, please tell us this is going in the C8...
Ohhhhhh friggg yeah bud!
Thanks you for what you do! From me and my bros in Canada! We all watch your stuff and enjoy it thoroughly. Keep it coming!
🇨🇦
14:54 everybody gangsta until the rotor is capable of rotating
This stuff gets me going boys. Much love
remember commenting on the centre lock nut on a previous video. glad to see rob saw the light
I said it before and I will say it again, this man is carrying the rotary's legacy on his back❤
glad to see you building big chunks of powerful shiny again 😃
Hell yea that bit is a work of art can’t wait to see it together Ripping!!!
"Who thermally lava sprays tungsten chromium carbide? That's aerospace bullshit, ain't nobody got time for that!"
-Rob Dahm 2023...
Love the appreciation for quality work. Up the aussies...
Thank you for what you do Rob!
Work of art.
I wonder if Rob has ever looked into getting DLC (diamond light coating) on any components like gears or any surfaces that experience a lot of stress and wear it’s been making pretty crazy waves in high horsepower and high stress platforms and according to what I’ve seen, it makes pretty substantial improvements on reliability and efficiency.
Or wpc treatment.
Awesome motor awesome Bill at work and craftsmanship
Robdahm the god of rotarys
just started watching, i dont even even want to know how much that beauty costs, definitely more than tree fiddy
Cant wait to see this built up!
I don't know why, but rotary engine looks amazing dude. The sound, Power and more 😂
Bro 3d scan all those plates. You may not be at that point now, but you can play around with 3d printing. 💯👌🥃🏴☠️ 5:40
Fascinated by people's enginuity.❤
Thats a nice bit of kit.
Getting Rob Dahm nerding the F out on cars, followed by Adam Savage nerding out on machining? All I need is a Project Binky update, and I can die a happy man.
Are there aftermarket rotor housings available? Or does all the stock come from mazda
Rob is so freaking humble.
Love everything you’re doing. Ran across a cnc video and thought about your projects. And thought I’d share. Hopefully it’s helpful. I’m pretty sure you’ve probably seen it but throwing it out there. Their RUclips is titans of cnc machining. $50m part.
Perfect ending. I got goose bumps
If Billet Pro is 7075, it is not distorting...or at least not as much as the 5000 series (hopefully 5083). I know 7075 does not exactly stay mint over time, so maybe it is 6083. That would be lame.
I love the care they took for shipping, especially the locked case to keep the ups sticky fingers away 😂
So..very new to the rotor world..but when you talked about a detonation event there on the side of the plate..is there accessories right next to that wall/side of motor(assembled) that would stop you from bulking up more material outside the doweling to add strength?
Whats going on with the turbo 6 rotor build, you teased it but i havent seen much afterwards
Thats real power
Santa that’s the Esky I want on Christmas Day!!
SO SHINY. Can't wait for the build
Someone got an early Christmas 🎁🎄🎁🎄🎁
I Lowkey Miss the Old Exhaust sound
Does anyone else agree??
i need to learn rotary's this is so much different then how piston engines work its super interesting
"That's aerospace bs. Nobody has time for us." 🤣🤣🤣 Love it.
I love how far Rob has gotten. i remember people were giving him crap at sema when he first showed his project idea of the four rotar engine. Love the motivation he has and the fact he didn't give up on it.
omg those parts are works of art
Wow, sometimes a scroll through RUclips videos looking for something better. Whenever I watch your videos I remember what better is
he mentions Jeff Bruce, but who cares about 20 years ago Jeff Bruce when you're the frickin Rob Dahm of today
Random question but how long does it take to pull a rotary? I’m looking at working a deal on an rx8 and want to test fit one of my i6 blocks and put the renesiss back in before doing the full swap.
That's a thing of beauty!!!
I think Rob would marry that motor if he could.
This man’s it’s who gonna make the rotary’s get to 5 secs world record in 1/4 drag
With that much cooling going on behind the plate surface, it's going to be harder to get accidental detonation. Maybe that's the thought behind the smaller amount of material near the dowel?
I love the 3 clutch boxes stacked in the backround lmao
Lez go Dahm daddy is back
When you build your 12 rotor, I'm imagining the engine it's self being a long boi. I presume your only option is mid mounted, but in what chassis?
my dream rx8 is going to become a reality because of this
You on a whole other level… your own level forsure!
Lol the climactic let down when he opens the blue crate to a bunch of boxes😂😂
I know i'm just reaching, but is not full billet until you have billet housings and rotors! Anyways, back to the normal schedule! 😂😂