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2011 Quality Guide - What do you get for spending more money?
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- Looking at three price point 2011s - The Springfield Armory Prodigy, The Masterpiece Arms DS-9 Hybrid, and the Nighthawk Custom President Double Stack. Each separated by about $2000. What do you get for going up on spend?
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0:00 Intro/ Overview
4:25 Small parts comparison
6:26 Machining Complexity
7:14 Optics cuts
7:54 Finishes
8:51 Fit - Slide to frame
10:16 Fit - Controls
12:01 Box experience
13:04 Scale
15:08 Shooting
16:02 Conclusion
The opinions expressed through this video are the opinions of the individual author.
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I just have a RIA 2011 in both 9mm and 45acp. Was easy enough to upgrade some parts and fit them on my own to get it where I want them. For the price paid I would say it was well worth it. The only difference is how easy it is to buy them. RIA are scarce to find if not buying them in 10mm. They show up in batches to be sold every 6 to 12 months it feels like. They sell out immediately. This has been my observations of them for the past 4 years. The 10mm ones seem to be available all the time at least.
With the right tools, if you are comfortable with doing your own fitting, then putting together a 2011 is an option as well. I've done Glocks like that, which was easy enough, but I haven't dipped my toe into the self built 1911 or 2011 out there. I believe it is a bit cheaper to make a 1911 than a 2011. I've seen other youtubers and content makers put out videos on other platforms showing their experiences with creating a 2011 on their own. Most have had great success in the end. If done right, they get a $3-5k level of firearm for around $1500 in parts.
This is the best comparison I have ever seen on RUclips. Thank you very much for the info. I have a 5” Prodigy and I love it. !!!!
I love my DS 9 4.25 it's like you said a soft shooting great gun and I could not be happier for my first 2011 style pistol
I like the Rock Island Armory because it's a lot more like a 1911 and it has a steel frame so it's heavier ... Basically just like the old school para ordinance that started this whole double stack 1911 or 2011 thing
I’m on team Staccato for now, maybe one day will be able to jump up in tiers. Fit and finish definitely improve, for now money is better spent on being able to practice, than what the more quality pistol would provide in improvement alone.
Staccato products are perfectly positioned on the value for dollar curve...except for the integrally compensated model. The XC is way overpriced.
@@Greenmachine305 except not one of them runs like a cz ts & they cost over a grand more lol
@@LIONTAMER3Dnah, it’s about equal to a TS2. I’d take a staccato over a TS2. I have both.
For an average shooter like me, the Prodigy can fit the value proposition bill. It seems that the Prodigy problems cited by some can be rectified by simply returning the firearm to Springfield. A little patience can go a long way avoid the angst of searching for additional home corrective remedies. Great video, by the way!
David, love your reviews of handguns & the comparison between different manufactures! You & the family have a Very Merry CHRISTmas!!
Merry Christmas!
Try adding the new Oracle and Girsan 2311's to this comparison, and maybe a WC SFX9?!
Thanks for sharing. Diminishing returns is an excellent point when doing a comparison like this one. Around the 14:00 time you are talking about Economies of Scale, i.e. the total cost (material, labor, overhead, administrative expenditures) of an individual unit will decrease the more units are produced.
If you got a prodigy or any 2011 gun. skips gunz does amazing work to tune up your 2011 and replace all your mim parts in the prodigy
Girsan is really going to blow this whole 2011 thing out of the water at SHOT Show when they release their 2011 with an MSRP of $999. If they can keep the build quality and reliability of their other guns the same with this, life should be pretty good.
And partially thanks to you, I have a Red/Black DS9 Hybrid at my FFL waiting on me because First Responders don't get to take days off this time of year unless you have seniority. Hopefully, I can make it until Tuesday. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Merry Christmas! You are in for a treat
You lost me at $999 😂
@@Duda4711 he means $999.99 can’t for get the cents 😂
A $999 2011? Let me consult my crystal ball for a second.....
Yep. This one is a stillbirth.
Lol no, you're not getting the quality/fitting/reliability of higher end 2011s in a package that cheap no matter who you go to. No budget 2011 is blowing this market of high end guns "out of the water" that's just laughable.
I really think Bul Armory is extremely underrated in the 2011 space
If I could find Buls in stock for purchase, I'd agree with you.
@Daniel Henderson yes it is hard to bye some of these guns you will never see on a shelf. The only guns I see at my LGS is nighthawk,atlas,and staccato
I believe he didn't mention them for the same reason he didn't mentiom RIA; proprietary magazines.
@@jayjuggrnaut All I need is three so as long as they function well......
I don't care how good they are or are not. I would never support Israel by buying one.
Yeah, I was kinda intrigued by the Rock Island, so I was excited when I ran across what would've been a good deal at a dealer going out of business, but the grip (Para Ordinance style, perhaps?) felt much girthier than a Stacatto. And it would've cost money to make it optics ready. Other than that, quality seemed good for price.
Ended up impulse buying a 10mm M&P instead.
You missed out. I got a used 52000 RIA 2011. The thing is an absolute unit. The mechanicals were tuned. Not professionally tuned to be a race gun but they interface really well.
The Rock Island guns are ParaOrdnance style guns and have their own separate issues, but they are cheaper. Girsan is going to blow the 2011 game open at SHOT Show with a 2011 starting at $999.
@@danielhenderson8316 that would be amazing. I love that the 2011 market is exploding. They make excellent race guns but also amazing nightstand and truck pistols.
Would love to see your thoughts on that Dan Wesson 2011/shadow 2 hybrid for this new “limited optics” division coming
The DWX isn't really new. You can find videos from like shot show 2020 about it. It's not made for a red dot sight either. It just looks like a more expensive alternative to a TS2.
Staccato is the value leader in the 2011, they function great without the chance of finding a dud like the prodigy I have a low serial number that runs horribly. I think nighthawk builds the top carry piece and atlas build the best race gun from my experience.
Atlas is a good production gun - much like the MPA - infinity is a bit nicer
@TheHumbleMarksman I've never tried an infinity so I'll put it on my list
Excellent content as usual David.
Awesome content as usual!! Love that buccees hat!!
I'm going to grow up and get a 2011 one day! LoL
From a performance standpoint, sounds like if your skill set is good any of these pistols could get you into the winner's circle at a local match. Pride of ownership is another matter.
You could send off your Prodigy to cut windows in the slide for like $120, and that would lighten your slide and make it throw the brass better-- but obviously that would cause it to increase recoil a bit too. But at least you would have a custom Prodigy, to set it apart from the other one you have. :)
Can't you achieve a similar result by experimenting with different hammer and recoil spring weight?
@@Fryheart You can try it. Lightening the springs may allow the slide to slam to the rear a little harder, but then it most likely won't be strong enough to push the slide back forward consistently enough for it to remain reliable. So by lightening the slide's mass, you can get that same effect of increased velocity of the slide slamming to the rear, which will give you a stronger ejection -- but this way, you still have the stronger recoil spring to strip the next round off of the mag and load it into the chamber... reliably- which is the key. But the downside to lightening the slide is that it reduces mass, which reduces inertia, so you will be able to feel that increase in recoil. So there's a trade off.
It is very nice if you ask for a video topic, and then you get it a few days later.
Merry Christmas everybody.
I ended up picking up a DS9 IDPA version thanks to your earlier video and I've really enjoyed my time with it so far. Final price was $2700 with a coupon, which seems like a fair price for what I got.
I’m planning on buying one but it’s around $5000 over here in the Netherlands😢.
Where are these 'coupons' you speak of lol
You make great videos! I keep going back and forth on getting a Prodigy to save money, or just buy a Staccato. When you shake it all out the Staccato is also a decent price point.
I’ve got a Boresight Solutions Glock 19 coming together. It will do for me just fine for a while.
Merry Christmas! You know who has some serious Big Dad Energy? Well, it's his kid's birthday tomorrow...
The rock island you mentioned will use staccato/prodigy mags
Eager to see your review on the new DWX.
Would a less stiff spring help the prodigy, or are you happy enough as is?
It’s on the cusp of under sprung
Would love you to have a look over the Victor Precision 2011 and 1911's. If your ever in Australia you can review mine.
that sounds like a good thing to do if I'm in Australia! I need to figure out how to get to Australia for lots of reasons.
Turn on Super Thanks.
Great review.
Just get a prodigy and add a egw ignition kit. Unless you just have money to blow, this is the best option for most people. Also own a prodigy 5 in and haven’t had any issues.
I don't know about this. Based on most RUclips reviews it seems that going up $300-$600 to get to a Bul Armory, or a Stacatto gives you a very significant return on investment..... namely a gun that actually works.
The issues that brings is you can't find a Bul Armory SAS so it makes no difference if it's $2.00 or $2,000, and a Staccato that's optic ready is $1K more than the Springfield. Prodigy prices have gone down to almost $1,200 and savvy custom houses are offering packages to upgrade a Prodigy to Staccato levels for about $450. The preorders on the optic plates are now shipping according to some on the internet.
Needless to say, SHOT Show is going to blow this whole market up in multiple ways.
Exactly, you can get a gun that works from Staccato and Bul. Otherwise it is a roll of the dice, and you see the comments from morons like “ mine has been flawless for x rounds”. Which is funny, for that isn’t amazing, for they shoul be working lol.
@@xtreme4stringbass Unfortunately your experience with the Prodigy seems to be not as common as it should be.
@@danielhenderson8316 Bottom line is that the Prodigy, unlike the other options, often doesn't work. I'd rather not drop $1200-$1500, and then spend time an hundreds more dollars to get it to work. I suspect this a common sentiment and that's why the Prodigy's street price is plummeting.
@@ACGBLR those comments are almost as ridiculous as someone commenting a gun is unreliable based on no personal experience.
Any info or review on the Mac 3011?
So there a bright light and harps play when you open a nighthawk?!
Now run a Bill Drill with all 3 ALL day long to show the best 3 times. Then do some 9-shot groups out to 400 yds to give us a feel for practical accuracy.
How much difference is there between a bull barrel and a bushing barrel?
I remain steadfast in my belief that it really should be called the El Presidente!
Doesn't fit the "Boardroom" theme that Nighthawk uses for this line. There's also a Vice President, Counselor, and Delegate models.
Do you fell the aggressive grip on the DS9 hybrid is necessary? I can get the gun with the A2 grip (standard) now or I can wait 12-16 weeks for the gun with the aggressive grip.
I prefer my A3 grip - if I were spending the money I would get the one I want
@TheHumbleMarksman thanks, that's what I decied to do
You think a Dan Wesson DX9 holster would work?
The Rock Island Armory “Big Rock” or 52000 is a 10mm double stack and is a lot of value.
I have been looking hard at a rock island in 10mm at local gun shop so do you recommend them ,or no problems
@@darltharp525 I have the Big Rock. It's definitely had problems, however, I haven't been able to determine if it's magazine related. I sent it back to Rock Island, and they seemed to think it was fine, but I'm probably gonna have a gunsmith take a look at it.
@@claytonmutchman4527 I know the Para .45s had a magazine issue that MecGar couldn't solve with rounds nosediving on the feed ramp. It's a similar problem that MecGar had with the Sig P227 14 round extended magazines even though the flush fit 10 round mags worked fine.
@@claytonmutchman4527 thank you very much for the info
Wouldn't it have been good to elaborate on what is different about the RIA double stack 1911's and why that's enough difference to make a difference in excluding them from this comparison? I think you'd find there isn't much if any performance difference between the $900 RIA and the $1400 Prodigy other than internet cool factor and Guntuber advertising budget.
It doesn’t use the 2011 modular design.
It's a para frame. Totally different platform.
@@lawnmowerman25 Thank you, but I know how the "true" definition of a 2011 includes the composite grip assy, however, just thought it would be worthwhile to explain it as it wasn't something I was aware of when I entered the segment a few years ago.
now do the mega bling bling infinity 2011's
So a staccato p in the 2500 range between the bottom 2 guns would be the best bang for your buck?
Bul is built to a similar spec to Stacatto for about 500 less
I just watched an old video of yours in the dagger. Do you still plan on getting the optics ready, th ready barrel version? I’d like to know what you think of it
It’s pretty low down on the list with what all is out there right now
What about MAC (metro arms)
Where did you get the mag well For The Prodigy
Would you put Bul-armory, say their SAS TAC2, in a similar category as the Springfield?
No much closer to the MPA
What reason(s) would one want a single action only for defensive situations over a double action single action? Example: lets compare how close the the dwx is (but has sa only) over the dasa of the shadow 2 orange or a tangfolio.
Whoa let’s back up- why are you talking about two gamer guns in a defensive context because you are cherry picking - a basic 92 or FPB middleweight CZ is what we are really comparing. If you carry a shadow you are introducing a bunch of risk as it has no FPB. And the answer is a more precise trigger - a grip some would argue is better suited for controlling at speed. A manual safety for administrative use. For a middle weight gun an SAO generally is a nicer shooter than a middle weight DASA. I would rather a Bul Armory Tac than an LTT.
@@TheHumbleMarksman i live in a highly wooded area. I have to go from the house to the studio in the dark. The studio is on the same land. I am not talking about EDC in public here, p01 or bersa thunder plus for that (situational). I am talking woods animal defense, ie coon, wild dog, coyote, wolf, bob cat, linx, largest and most rare is black bear. Not interested in draging an AR out to the studio every day. Also as far as the firing pin block goes, staccatos don't have them. I've seen the drop issues the shadows could have, which sound like people didn't holster it correctly from everything I've found. Lastly on that, cocked and locked should prevent a drop fire, regardless of the firing pin block as far as I am aware. I am not familiar with the acronym LTT in this context, aside linus tech tips according to google. So I am not sure I get the statement about the bul armory tool. I would have to find a range to try one out before I picked that up for a 19/2011 comparison over say an sp-01 tactical, if not a shadow. Laslty, yes I have considered the SP-01, the front flip over the shadow is noticable enough for me to consiser the shadow from the house to the studio instead.
@@Phoenix_Core as someone who has owned a bunch of CZs - the advantage of a shadow is miniscule over an SP01 outside of a sport context. To make it function safely it’d be cocked and locked and the safety design on CZs are suboptimal and at that point you have a crappy SAO gun. Those guns don’t hit harder so you are straining your back for 10+ ounces of nothing - with aimed fire you will not be faster with the shadow or more accurate. The trigger is better but not a lot from an FPB equipped CZ. A basic 75, 75BD will have the same velocity and be 5-10+ ounces lighter. A shadow 2 is a flex - a great tool for competitive shooting - no practical advantage - and significant disadvantages in the practical arena.
Plainly - a 92 is a superior defensive weapon than a CZ - from a durability standpoint. Shoots like a CZ - weighs less - costs less.
A Tanfo is a superior gun to the CZ- the elites anyway - the triggers are worse (slightly) but everything else is generally better- balance- finish - safety. But I wouldn’t carry a Stock II either.
Correct - 2011s don’t have FPBs - but they have a manual safety and a grip safety that keep them drop safe- properly sprung they don’t have inertia fires (and they all come properly sprung).
The real question is 92 vs 2011- and at that point it’s a manual of arms preference - mine is for the manual safety.
@@TheHumbleMarksman great reply! In your opinion and experience then would modifying these remove reliability? Honest outlaw claims as much. I take it you mean the Beretta 92, which one (the LTT in your new video?) there are many versions? At the range I shot the 92 FS right next to the shadow 2 back to back, the shadow felt just enough better for me to continue looking at that. As for the tanfo which one are you looking at specifically for the situations I've layed out? Same question, which 2011? Thanks for communicating with the community like this!
Ds 9 hybrid or bul sas ii air ?
Performance wise - for me - they shoot the same - answer comes down to aesthetics and what you want to do with it. If you are happy out of the box - the air is a good bit cheaper - if you want 2011 mags and the flexibility a true 2011 pattern offers then MPA
It's so sad that these all have to be sooo expensive most expensive gun I've ever purchased was 1,500$ that was for an Armalite
Just wait until after SHOT Show in January.
I'm starting to sense a pattern here
What magwell do you have on the Prodigy? I found an old Infinity magwell works, with only minor modifications to the grip.
Dawson STI Gen 1 - had to file the tabs off the grip and round the corner a little bit - still need to finish blending internally.
@@TheHumbleMarksman Same process for the Infinity magwell. I didn't need to complete remove the side tabs, though.
How about a compilation of a bunch of your best " comments" you make about you and your kids antics that you start every video about ?
It’s already in the works!
Why no STI's? Just don't have them? Or don't think they are worth it?
Don’t have them - they are a clock down from the MPA - a couple clicks about the Springfield
@@TheHumbleMarksman yeah, that MPA is a beauty.
Have you had the chance to play with a Chamber's Customs?
Nope
The short rail is definitely the better looking frame.
How does an Atlas grip compare to a Staccato P grip? Reason I ask is I have smaller hands and have had my P and C2 stippled and reduced and that made a world of difference. I see an Atlas has side panels? Do you think I'd have any issue with an Atlas if I decided to go that route? Thanks!
Atlas doesn’t sell their grip alone so you’d need a full atlas pistol to get it. That being said the atlas grip is quite a bit thinner than some of the older style grips. The panels only serve to make the grip thicker, think of them like palm swells. They make a difference but not the difference like on a CZ or something like that imo. If you’ve got small hands - I don’t think the atlas grip geometry will be an issue for you
Grip reduction along with a stipple job can slim down a decent amount. The newer stock tac texture is pretty decent as well. A gen one grip swap is thinner than the gen 2 as well.
Lastly and most expensive would be getting a Cheely metal grip. No personal experience with that option but some people seem to like them a lot.
@@marcusjohnson5839 cheely grips are nice but they are rather boxy and for sure bigger than atlas grips and gen2 staccato grips. They feel good, but certainly bigger, at least as far as the E2 goes. I have one on my Atlas Hyperion.
why didnt we include staccato?
Too close on features to the Springfield - used the MPA instead
Not much in the most 2011 companies.
Can you compare the mpa against the Bul sas ll
About the same difference between the Prodigy and MPA. The Bul will have a better trigger, slightly blockier grip, and the flush fit mag will hold more rounds. One RUclipsr did a tear down on the Bul and while it's small parts are MIM, all of the MIM signs like seems and mold markings were filed off suggesting that the Bul might make their MIM parts slightly oversized vs Springfield which are slightly undersized. Neither are at Staccato levels when you hit the "Dan Wesson" level of production build quality with tool steel parts.
I have a 2011 sti 9 mm major built at Dawson precision I run
Does anybody know where I can get a mag funnel for my Prodigy?
I filed on my grip to fit a Dawson precision Gen 1 STI magwell
As of right now, there's no plug and play option, but I'm sure someone's working on it.
Hey, are Honcho 2011’s still a thing??
If you're talking about the Phoenix Trinity Honcho, yes they're still around for about $4.5-$5K.
Going from the 1st percentile to the 75th in a skill isn't that hard. Going from the 75th to the 90th is very difficult but can be done with great focus and effort. Going from the 90th to the 95th is very difficult and requires natural talent along with focus and effort. Going from the 95th to the 99th is virtually impossible for most. It requires great natural talent, great effort, and great focus. To a 50th percentile shooter, the difference between the 90th and 99th isn't THAT much. To a 90th shooter, the gap between them and a 99th is CAVERNOUS. This also applies to the equipment they use. It's why a mid shooter doesn't understand paying high priced premium equipment
Can you tell everybody I was first?
John 8:32 right?
@@Emily-ou6lq being first to comment is super important. Don’t you know the rules of RUclips? Or do you pick up on sarcasm well?
@@graynotescartridgebox Well, I'm torn between Mak 12:17 and Ecclesiastes 1:2...you tell me...
Happy Yuletide though!
@@Emily-ou6lq 😉 just relax.
@@graynotescartridgebox *Mark 😊
Well can't get any in California
U gotta move to America to get the fun gun.
🙋.🙋
👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫
None of these are nice pistols