This and That: Team Tutberidze v. Omicron, 2021 Skate Canada Challenge & Korean Ranking Competition
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024
- This week, the JSF announced the cancellation of the ISU Grand Prix Final. While we are devastated and in our personal feelings, we take time to acknowledge the 40% of earnings lost by Eteri Tutberidze and what a postponement of the 2022 Olympics could mean for Team Tutberidze and the other top skaters. Then, we break down the latest proposals sent for the ISU Congress and discuss the gall of Norway seeking to raise the age minimum requirements for skating (and which camps are for it and against it). Meanwhile, the skating continues to go on elsewhere and we break down all of the figure skating news and performances by Yelim Kim, Young You, Haein Lee, Eunsoo Lim, Ahsun Yun, Stephen Gogolev and Deanna Stellato and Maxime Deschamps in the latest edition of 'This and That'.
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The goal of The Skating Lesson (TSL) is to share our passion and knowledge of the sport with all of you. Whether you call it figure skating, ice skating, Eiskunstlauf, фигурное катание, 피겨 스케이팅, フィギュアスケート, 花样滑冰, 花樣滑冰, patinage artistique, pattinaggio artistico or patinaje artístico, we hope you'll share your passion with us as well. isu figure skating, dancing on ice (новости фигурного катания) eteri tutberidze show, команда тутберидзе
team tutberidze news yuma kagiyama 2021 france wakaba higuchi france 2021 maya khromykh warsaw lindsay thorngren, Даниил Глейхенгауз
Kosto will be the reigning GP final champ for another year. It is kind of funny.
💯
Maybe it’s the time she needs. 🤷🏾♂️ 🤣
@@Tenorboy29307 I tend to agree. I still think it would be a Herculean effort for her to make the Oly team, but, it's Russia! We won't know anything until after Russian Nationals. She is still one of my faves in my heart.
@@72586jejones Agreed. She has the ability. Hopefully, she can find the fire!
0:00 Intro
0:25 Grand prix final cancellation, Beijing olympics
15:38 Galina stories
18:30 team tutberidz v omicron
23:00 ice dance (delayed showdown, on edge)
25:07 what if the olympics were postponed
32:03 Evgenia Medvedeva, types of coaches
Propositions for isu rule change
37:15 age limit
45:00 technical and components judges
47:08 getting rid of transitions and interpretation
55:10 quads in the ladies' short, quad twist and throws
korean ranking competition
58:17 quality elements, Eunsoo Lim, lack of projection
1:00:48 Yelim Kim, Young You, outdated packaging, too many national competitions, upcoming generation
1:12:20 Italy
1:13:28 Canadians
1:24:28 Stephen Gogolev, Cricket Club
1:32:14 Moment of the week
Thanks!!
Thank you ❤️
Re: raising the age limit, I'm not against Russian dominance. If they're legit better, they're better. I'm against Russian dominance by poor technique, politics, and overlooking immature skating skills and performance.
but you never voted for raising age in time of Sarah Hughes and Tarah Lipinsky,i am sure...hypocrisy...we also fed up with poor skating skills and perfomance ,politics,poor techniques of american sportsmen and women...
Evgenia medvedeva's announcement about retirement and her permanent back injury was so depressing. Yes, it was expected but it's just sad, knowing that she would probably have wanted to continued skating. She's literally 'broken'.
:( :(
Correct me if I'm wrong, if she has a permanent injury, would that be the description of having a disability? Did her training cause her a lifelong disability?
@@hellsbellsmichelle her spine is fused. As a result, she cannot jump the lutz and flip. Occasionally she can do a loop but mostly a Sal. She also cannot rotate to her left due to this. The injuries she suffered with eteri have left her with some permanent defects as an adult. She will still be doing shows, but will never skate competitively. She released a lengthy statement about this
@@Jeremy-wp4yh as someone with a fused spine, the muscle spasms alone are on another level…..
@@Jeremy-wp4yh that's very sad & troubling to hear. She's only about 21 years old & disabled from skating?!
I feel like Evgenia would be more like Brian Orser as a coach, literally screaming and jumping by the boards for their skaters. 😂
I think this was the most interesting show you've done. I'm very fascinated by the economics of figure skating as a sports entertainment industry. I know it's super nerdy but Dave I'd watch you and Jonathan talk about the cost benefit/deficit of figure skating economics and the pressure on the sport. Great discussion!!!! You two are so stinkin' smart!
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It sucks about the cancellation but it may help Eteri's skaters with not burning out. The intensity of their training with all the quads and competition, is probably unprecedented.
It might help other skaters and federation as well if they postpone it. But I also you also have to remember the up and coming juniors that are turing 15 next season. If the Olympics gets postponed they might have a shot at making the team as well. Just a food for thought.
I do not see any way the Chinese will change the scheduling of the Winter Olympics. A huge part of their image and brand is they have beaten this pandemic relative to other nations. They aren't backing down now - too much face could be lost.
Also Dave's favorite Yanochka Rudkovskaya spilled some tea in an interview saying 'accepting Trusova and Kostornaya to AoP was a strategic mistake' and that ''if Sasha did everything Plu told her to at the Worlds last year, she would have been the world champ' and more...😆 we need a special!
Oh yes!
We need Yana's PoV in our life!
Яна невольно подтвердила таким образом, что Плющенко плохой тренер, ведь его не слушаются ученики, он не может с ними справиться (на примере Саши, Саша им командовала).
About Korean Competition, Ranking Competition is for deciding who gets the ticket to 4 continent competition. and yes. And the Final National Competition is for deciding who gets the ticket to world championship. but when olympics season, who gets the ticket to the olympics is decided by Getting Sum Score of Ranking Competition total score and National Competition total score. and the highest 8(ladies, 4 for men) athletes will get the status of representative of Korea and they get subsidized by government and they are allowed to get training time in the ice rink where government operates.
It is really not a great system, as skaters are risking burn out and injury (especially those flying from North America to compete).
The federation really worked hard to make it happen, but the Japanese government said NO. Please don't blame JSF for the cancellation.
Yana has just added some fuel to that never-ending fire about Sasha's and Alena's transfers...
Oh?
Shoma said in an interview that he has no plans of retiring soon. Even asked Daisuke for advice for longevity in a fs career
Shoma should try ice dance too :)
@@shomaunofan8486 Not unless he can find a strapping young man to throw him around. He's way too small.
Shoma could ice dance with Satoko. Two people with great emotions. And honestly, I think she’s the only person he could partner with since she’s so tiny. Her and maybe Elizaveta but she said she retired.
Oh, that's so great! I could watch him skate forever.
@@Melissa-yr7fm Those two are friends and they both have huge respect for each other as artists! If they ever end up in ice dance together, it will be a dream come true for so many fs fans!
I kind of feel like if they're going to limit the technical content in the short program, they just go whole hog and make it a kind of compulsory program. Require a set of specific simpler skills that represent the valued basics they want to see developed in skating. Make them do relatively easy stuff but really focus the judging on perfect technique, who does the biggest most beautiful double axel or death drop, or flying sit spin. Even specific footwork/moves in the field they have to incorporate into the program.
I would actually love to see what some of the Eteri girls would look like if they _had_ to do a classic layback position or traditional unassisted spiral.
don't think Eteri's school could pass old school figures--
@@ardeladimwit I'm not sure anyone could pass old-school figures. Back in my day, my coach used to place 2p pieces (very low value copper coins) on the ice either side of the tracings. Was lethal if you hit one.
Yep like the old gymnastics compulsories where everyone does the same routine. It doesn’t make sense to limit certain technical elements unless it truly is a compulsory routine, and it’s not.
@@embeth446 I wouldn't even necessarily give them all the same exact program and music. I'd make it sort of 1/2 way between compulsory and short program. They can do their own choreo, music, program construction, but give them specific jumps, spins, and footwork that they _have_ to do, and do *BIG* , with precise and dynamic execution.
The directives focused on technique, edge quality, extension, amplitude, importance of movement. The idea is basically asking the question:
"Yes, you can do 8 transitions in and out of a quad salchow, and put your right toepick in your left ear, and tack on a triple toe to anything no matter how bad the landing...but can you clear the length of the rink in a spread eagle with only 3 crossovers for speed? Can you do a change edge spiral? Can you do a big beautiful double lutz with no blade assist?"
Good idea. It would be nice to make the basic skating skills like traditional laybacks and spirals worth more points. Remember Kwan's spiral? Are skaters even allowed to hold spirals for that long, given how few points they're worth? What if pre-rotation were penalized as under-rotations? I like the idea of age limits on 3A and quads in competition for both girls and boys novice through senior levels, in addition to raising the age limit of girls in senior events.
Thank you Dave and Jonathan for this excellent analysis of current events.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:25 GPF cancellation (I wonder if they will reschedule it)
Although this is the most appropriate decision it does make you wonder how well everyone would have done respectively in each discipline.
For the ladies the showdown was mainly between Anna and Kamila for the top spot and everyone else fighting 2nd to 6th place. I’m sure we would have seen a similar performance from Kamila here had the event happened. Not sure about Anna. I’m sure Elizaveta could have squeaked a personal best or close to it here. I’m not a fan of either Kamila programs this season, it seams to me that they are severely beneath her talent. I hope she continues to skate past this season and next season. She is nice to watch when she creates beautiful lines and movements.
Kostornaia is the GPF champion another year in a row. I wonder how she would have faired here with really stiff competition.
I think we all knew that even if Sakamoto skated cleanly it wouldn’t be enough to place higher than 6th. She is often underscored. I do love her skating but the programs are just…🤨. She should have gone back to the Celine Dion or No Roots for the short and the Piano for the long. I love her skating so much though!
I do believe with the lack of the GPF it will give skaters some rest and time to rework their programs; get ready for nationals and ready for their next events. It is a bummer that we won’t see the event but it’s better that it would be cancelled and maybe rescheduled as this is a year that there is no WTT so they could quite possibly put the final in April. It sounds weird but it may be possible but you have to think about who will WANT to go to the final later in the season, people will be so tired after the Olympics and worlds. Will it be worth it honestly?
3:02 Worlds 2020 reference. “Doom and gloom”
I’m pretty sure Kostornaia would have won worlds had it happened. Too bad we will never know who placed where and why. I was hoping they wouldn’t cancel it because they did Junior Worlds. It was a shame in my opinion.
4:38 2020 Olympics referenced
6:53 mask wearing discrepancies
8:13 ISU and long term planning
No crowds again?
10:05 brief mention of Canada and the Korean Ranking Competition
13:24 new Covid variant, Omicron
15:08 Deers in Pennsylvania? Having Covid?
15:29 Jonathan’s new vase! Very elegant Mr. Beyer! I am very fond of vases as they are very stately and look rather nice in a space. I have a vase in my living room. I love vases. They look very elegant and beautiful.
16:59 Japan/GPF reschedulement possibility for the money perhaps. Not sure
18:36 Eteri losing money.
18:48 Potential placements of the ladies at the GPF (mine were Kamila, Anna, Elizaveta, Alena, Maiia, Kaori).
19:30 Tutberidze girls glam party. There were multiple posts on Instagram actually.
19:54 Tarasova and Morozov, could they have been 1st or 2nd here. I think 2nd based on the scores of Mishina and Galliamov and they beat them twice already this season. I would say for bronze between the Japanese team and Boikova/Kozlovskii
21:42 😂
22:17 Anna’s contract with a bank
22:27 Valieva bringing in the money with her sponsorships
23:10 rest for the ice dancers with the GPF being cancelled or postponed who knows really.
23:43 Smart/Diaz (On Edge show)
23:48 Hubbell/Donahue and Chock/Bates (On Edge Show)
25:08 What if the Olympics were postponed by a year. What would happen? Would everyone be shifted in each disciplines? Who is going to really at the end of this year going to retire honestly. If the Olympics get postponed should they wait to retire or not. That’s just a question I have honestly. Nervous breakdowns who will have them and why.
32:03 Evgenia Medvedeva. Really sad but honestly I foresaw this happening. Just too many injuries really.
37:15 Age limit increase. I have to agree with the ISU on this one. Not so much for the decision to change +3 -3 to +5 -5. But this I could see a MASSIVE change to FS. Will Eteri still dominate or will she have to find other areas to dominate in (maybe Ice dance or pairs. She’s trying with Tarasova and
Morozov).
45:00 Texhnical vs Component judges. I think it’s always subjective really for components. It was either horrible or really amazing or somewhere in between. Trusova would fal under technical but as you rack up those points and build consistency like Anna your PCS gets higher even if you have mistakes. Is it fair, no. But it’s what is expected. Getting rid of the Transitions will only further deteriorate the sport in my opinion. Look at Trusovas program it only further explains why we need to keep transitions. Because as Dave has said before there aren’t any.
47:08 Transitions and Interpretation getting rid of from components.
55:10 Quads. Ladies can’t do them in the short. We don’t really see ANY quad throws or twists in a really long time probably since the last Olympics.
58:17 quality of the elements. Eunsoo Lim lack of projection. I have to agree to a certain extent. She has all the performance capability but I think she gets too nervous or is doubtful that she can do it. She’s very talented too bad it’s been a struggle.
1:00:48 Yelim Kim, You Young and the Korean ranking competition. Why they do this I don’t know. Seems quite odd.
1:34:23 End of Video
4CC team for Korea is out! Ladies will be You Young, Yelim Kim and Haein Lee
Also Gogolev won the Skate Canada Challenge whilst Nam Nguyen struggled and placed 6th.
thanks!!!
I completely agree that Sabovčík's quad was one of the best, if not the best of all. It's amazing how seeing all the quads together in one video really helps you see the different qualities of each skater's quad techniques. Thanks for the time it takes to put these videos together.
Thank you as always for your commentaries and videos! You channel is gold! Especially with this week’s cancellation of GPF I have been desperately in need for you guys!
Glad you enjoy it!
Waiting for Eteri to cure Omicron… she cured deafness how hard can this be
100%
Lol! Eteri of Nazareth
I'm sure she's already working on the cure for cancer, homophobia and all Covid. Oh wait - she must have cured homophobia in Russia already, since no-one in Russia can be gay!
@@schauspielersven Ha!
@@hellsbellsmichelle Dont be a laughong stock The propoganda is forbodden And this is the right thing
You brought up a really interesting point about the future of the Olympics and I think the IOC knows it too - fwiw, they have begun to change the bidding procedures, they awarded the 2032 games to Brisbane without having a rival bid, I think it's the first time they awarded the games to a city so far in advance, and they are also entertaining multi city bids, like how the 2026 games will be.
As for the popularity of the games, I read an article from the NBC CEO who claimed that regardless of declining ratings, those numbers still trump any other event on TV, save the super bowl, and that's why advertisers will always pay to be on there. Who knows how trustworthy that is though, could be PR BS, but just thought it was interesting. Great episode!
Ah Americans. Thinking the Super Bowl is the most watched sports final on TV 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think social media and advanced technology are killing the Olympic ratings. Now we don’t need to watch full scheduled events anymore, we can just see results on our phone at our convenience. We have access to wider forms of entertainment on our devices at our convenience, so scheduling a sit-down olympic watch on television is no longer a thing anymore. It’s killing cinema in the same way
Absolutely, why watch the whole 2 hour thing when you can just see highlights and results on Instagram. However I do think the olympics is different. Even me who barely watches the summer Olympics, say down to watch some events just because it was the Olympics and it’s exciting. Plus you want to see everything live, who’s going to crack under pressure, who’s going to rise to the occasion… ect. It’s not like any other competition. Maybe that’s just me but many people actually will sit and watch the olympics purely because it’s the olympics.
“Why was Maya dressed like she was Peter Pan in the schoolplay?” DEAD.
First thing that came to mind!
I'm in China right now. Trust me when I say the pandemic is not affecting daily life to the extent it is in many other countries. It has not been for a year at least. Things have felt completely "back to normal" for well over a year. It's probably one of the safest place to host the Olympics, health-wise. The Chinese government has maintained the strictest quarantine policy for international travelers, which probably was a contributor to the stability of the situation. It's adopted this almost paranoiac attitude, acting swiftly and enforcing blanket quarantine and mini-lockdowns whenever there's a single local case reported.
I believe you. How are you watching this video, though? Is RUclips not blocked in China? Or do people find ways around the censors?
If everything is back to normal why did they cancel their figure skating nationals this December?
@@clarissagilligan4414 Yes it is really and truly weird, i just learned about that. Normally China has been the very first country to be back to Normal (both economy and social life) while organizing the stage shows with massive population, 2021 new year held with hundred of thousands of population impressive !! (the only country that was able to celebrate 2021 new year party nationwide + spring festival in feb and recently China columnist party 100th anniversary with hundred of thousands of population in July). Plus at least +1 Billions fully vaccinated with 2 doses. Let's wait and see if they will also cancel 2022 winter Olympics, there is a risk if they think worth to cancel. They fear the most is possible importation of newly contaminated cases from exterior.
With the GPF cancellation/postponement/whatever, everyone was talking about what this means for russian ladies etc etc whilst I'm out here so upset we're not going to see how Ice Dance plays out for the top 5 till the actual olympics! We may see P/C and S/K at Euros but none of the north american skaters will do 4CC and I wanted to see how H/D, C/B and G/P would all stack up against each other at the same competition!
My favourite comment on On Edge was when Madi Hubbell said she wants to be Olympic champion... like honey, this is ice dance you are vying for the bronze medal!!
Man I was so enjoying watching G&Gs programs evolving, I guess our only chance is going to be that thing on the Olympic channel but they barely show them…
21:38
“Maybe Russian vaccines: 60% effective
Mishin’s mask: covers 40% of his chin
*_100% safe_* ”
😂😂
🤣🤣
@@TheSkatingLesson Dave you’re gold.😂👏🏻
Actually, WHO says that 92-95% efficiency ☝️😊
@@ollimez Yes thx for the info. I think Dave was joking😂. I think he was trying to bring awareness of how people should correctly wear masks, no matter if vaccinated or not, and no matter how efficacious the vaccines are. Only with treating the protocols seriously can we all protect our athletes and this sport that we love☺️
@@TL-tc9jq Dear friend, you are absolutely right ✊
This was such an interesting discussion. You guys always bring it. I would love to hear y'alls thoughts on music in figure skating. Like, what do you think is overused, underused, your all-time favorites, classic vs what's in vogue, bad music cuts, etc...I have a soft spot for East of Eden, Fantasie Impromptu, and Piano Concerto No. 2 lol
Although I enjoy many of the music in today's skating...however I miss the time that lyrics were not allowed in competition (some exceptions like brief chorus or background voices were allowed if I remember right)...anyhow some of the music with lyrics these days is occasionally annoying and demeaning to the sport ....and distracting
Dave, I'm both a tennis and a skating fan. I've had to put you on pause for a second to let you know that the tennis season in China is late is in the fall. The WTA, and not, so far, the ATP, have cancelled tournaments in China for the foreseeable future because of the situation with Peng, not Covid. They wouldn't make a call about Covid with 10 months to go before they need to worry.
Thank you
Please understand that JSF had no choice than to cancel the GPF; the government issued a strict ban of travelers coming in from abroad, even Japanese citizens (which was recalled later).
FYI reports came in that Lambiel is able to enter because he possesses a kind of long-stay Visa (probably by virtue of being a coach at the Kinoshita Academy, Mie Hamada’s kingdom. Same said for Ghislain Briand)
Exactly, I’ve been seeing people saying that they canceled it because the Russians would take all the medals and beat Japanese skaters….like the government and president are thinking about eteri girls and canceled the event so Russians don’t win😭😭😭😭😭
Look forward to your informative discussion every Sunday! Thank you Dave and Jonathan!!
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About the IJS, I wouldn't change a thing right now. The major problem is not the system, it's how scores are awarded in competition.
Actually, no, I'd propose one change: elements (spin positions, transitions, lifts, etc) cannot be repeated from previous season or at least between short and long programs, so skaters have to at least learn two sets of these elements. Some skaters have been doing the exact same elements for years, it's boring and it's easier, and scoring should reward skaters to try and master new elements.
"If Eteri were coached by Eteri in 2018, would she have ghosted her? And gone to Brian Orser? And maybe come back?" OMG I LAUGHED WAY TOO LOUD AT THIS. The look on Jonathan's face trying to wrap his mind around this!
BTW I agree with you and totally expect Zhenya to eventually become a top coach, if not also a choreographer.
💯💯💯
Coach, going with coach, Med was never the most naturally artistic person. She was a jumping bean
re: Gaby and Guillaume removing boots in K&C.
I noticed that Gaby has changed from Edea to Jackson boots.
I have to say. I miss Evgenia Medvedeva that she is going into retirement. I was not surprised about cancelling of the Grand Prix Final. I want to say that Japan was going on the safe side. They should have better safety plan or have a back up plan to be on the safe side. You also adding that some governments are not sending officials to the games.
They need a back-up plan in the future. It is very silly for one event to be canceled and Zagreb to be held. There needs to be uniformity.
@@TheSkatingLesson yes, I haven’t listened to the whole episode yet, however, I was hoping Las Vegas or Finland would step up, but I realize coordinating those type of events is a great deal of work. Maybe it helps that it’s only 6 athletes per discipline.
Or, even though it wouldn’t be the fairest, why can’t they do video submissions? Wouldn’t that be better than nothing?
@@Melissa-yr7fm The video submissions might work but you have to take into account that videos not not work all the time.
Having the junior final towards the end of the season (but not too close to junior worlds) would be fine because they won't be dealing with a "come down from the high of Olympics." The senior final should be canceled, there's just no time.
there's time, there's no world team trophy this year so Japan could just make similar plans
Coaches who have toned down the performer energy to devote their energy into boosting their students -- Brian Orser, Scott Moir, Patrice Lauzon
Cant they hold the final online? Like seriously. They should schedule the event in a ring in each county and have the judges score. Like we've already done the empty rings, we can go back to that if need be.
Exactly! I have similar suggestions, though I understand there will be some technical difficulties, but during unprecedented times there should be unprecedented solutions! And why the heck ISU didn't develop several backup plans since 2020? And surely there are alternative countries ready to host the Finals. Russia already articulated this.
True since they did competitions without the fans, all needed there are just the judges, coaches and participants. They did that in the first place. Besides being vaccinated limit the people on ice or the venue.
Dave you are so right about Canada as a federation! It so needs to be said!! We will miss Rod Black! Your impression is hilarious 😆
Thank you!
I agree that the main problem w/ korean ladies is the yuna-esk mimicking. You ask any of them about their program and it’s immediately called a yuna tribute. And while that’s cute, they definitelyyyyy need originality and more star power like yuna had. Yelim is my favorite tho i luvvv her liebestraum program!
Yeah it was cute when they announced their programs. But that sentiment rubbed off right away after seeing the programs. I think Jun has the best "Yuna-tribute" out of all the skaters. Young has a nice Les Mis program but I'm missing the story. Yelim's Liebestraum is the best SP out of the ladies. Her Turandot is the opposite. I think the music is too demanding for her. And Eunsoo really should've done a Scheherazade LP as her Yuna tribute. At least give me drama and pomp instead of this monotonous East of Eden program. I still can't believe that she kept this program.
The korean skaters projection issue has more to do with how their coaches and athletes were trained as athlete first before performers meaning they put a lot of emphasis on technique first and foremost. I mean they have no problem in training those kpop stars kids in face projection at such a young age (some debut at 14/15/16). So no matter how conservative their culture is, it would not be a hassle as long as those coaches would impose the performing value too.
This show was so informative - thanks for all the coverage! Also was nice to see how seriously you appear to be taking the pandemic.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Why does Korea have ranking competitions? It’s overkill. They burn their skaters out.
Agreed
It's for skaters to qualify for nationals and the olympics. It is too much I agree.
@@triplea_qgb1963 They should just have nationals. Their top skaters should be given byes to nationals like every other country does.
@@evanperilstein5308 yes but it's ksu
I dont think it s that simple. They have qualifiers champs for other sports as well, so may be it has more to do with the government policy to prevent favoritism/corruption. For example there are like 4 qualifiers for fencing for Tokyo. So only having 2 here seems kind compare to the other sports.
Thank guys for your always informative segments. Mixed with humor and key points. in the never ending soap opera saga of the world figure skating. Very concerned for the upcoming 2022 Olympics and wondering will it also be cancelled as well?
No, it won't be cancelled, China is doing well, though American reports about the situation in China are misleading
I want the Canadians to get behind Deanna and Max so hard! Deanna deserves ALL the flowers!!
I'm sorry to hear of the losses of your friends due to covid. I think it's very unlikely the Olympics would be canceled after all the preparations & $$$ spent.
The financial component is huge.
Hey Judy! Always glad to see you here!
Surprised to see the ISU bested by a low-built, slow-footed pangolin. They couldn’t contingency plan this 10 months ago? Japan has been touch and go all year. Osaka metro has a population of 19M. Why didn’t they just move the “final” to a more stable situation when they had the time...they seem sorta bad at their job.
Very poor planning (and politics)!
aha lol. bested? they are deliberately incompetent
Been looking forward to your commentary on this since last week, really glad you went into the economics of the olympics a bit.
If they rescheduled it, who knows how many of the 6 girls could be injured by then, and the ones who couldn't compete for a spot because of injury would probably be back by then. And even the World's after the Olympics is kind of anti climatic and not as well attended by top skaters as usual. I'm not sure their bodies could even hold up to having an extra long competitive season.
So if the Russian girl withdraws from the competition, it is all Etery's fault, right?. What about Japanese premier skater, Yuzuru Hanyu or American lady injured during the competition (similar to Daria's Usacheva case), or American pair with terrible cuts and falls? It is probably totally different, as these are just unfortunate events. Maybe guys you can expand on this, why it is so different, so we can all understand? BTW, I am rooting for Elizabeth at this OG, not because I like how she skates as such, but for the role model she can present to all current hesitating athletes. Trusova already made her historic achievements, and Eteri was the driving force behind the revolution in female FS. Look how many females are doing Quads and Ultra C in different countries of the world! And of course, not everything is perfect in their school, they face different challenges as they go their pioneer way. And instead of criticizing, sitting on a couch, why don't you guys develop some suggestions for Eteri and other coaches, if you believe you are great experts and qualified to contribute ? I believe, the list of the best worls choreographers was a great start! BTW, I would include Eteri herself (Picasso's inspired) and Danny G's mom, the Bolshoy choreograph. I am not sure though that this list was widely circulated.
I had to LOL when Jonathan said it takes him a while to recognize the Sambo70 girls with their hair down. They do have a lot of hair! Watching the BTS video of their hair/makeup session, Aliona seems to play the diva to the hilt. She really is stunning looking though, so she has the right to be.
I'm disappointed about the GPF being cancelled, too but what can we do? At least Golden Spin will be entertaining, despite the withdrawal of Diana and Gleb. I was sure they would win gold.
I stayed up last night until 1:30AM to watch the Korean ladies on RUclips. There is a sameness about them and the programs and packaging is a bit dated, although their costumes are beautifully made. Too bad about Eunsoo placing so low - she is one of the few of them with the charisma and star quality.
Do you have a link to that video? Thank you!
Ahh I can’t wait to dig into this, so excited to do my chores for the night whilst listening to you guys!
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Concerning Tutberidze's 40% - the flip side of that is the student's 60%. The Russians use some medieval guild like arrangements in their sports education, including some of the nomenclature. In some ways this is a symbiotic relationship. The school is motivated to give the best education possible to make the earning power of the student as high as possible. In addition, the school acts as an employment agency for the student to maximize earnings for both itself and the student. This is why you see the Team Tutberidze on tour in Russia, earning money, while most of skating is shut down last spring. Consider how much better higher education in the west would be if the income of colleges and universities was dependent on the success of their students. Instead of turning out debt burdened graduates, they would be actively seeking successful employment for their former students.
This would only work in the absence of abuse. But unfortunately, where money is involved, corruption and abuse of athletes/students follow.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh So far as I know, skating students sign voluntary one year contracts in the Russian system. This prevents most abuse. A similar contract system in our higher education would be a better alternative to the current student loan/debt system we have now. The market and experience would eventually work out the proper time length and size (% of future income) of the student's obligation - which would vary with the school and type of higher education received.
And it's still more fair than western system, where you still pay your top coach 100$ + no matter if you win or lose, if you win 1000$ you give 400, if 10K then 4k, but in USA/Canada if you don't have rich parents and you're not successful you making your ends meet or in debt. None of Russian parents poor either, but if skater is in novice/junior/senior team this is their kid's paycheck, which you can put to education or anything at all.
@Skate Lover Thank you for your reply. As I said it was "as far as I know" - as I am not Russian and have to rely on second hand knowledge like Russian commentary and news reports. Perhaps you are Russian and have better first hand knowledge. As for being shut down, I was referring to the skating world outside of Russia. Perhaps the Tutberidze skaters were not at the highest paying venues last spring, but I've noticed the pattern of that school's skaters showing up at ice shows in Japan and Germany during short breaks in the competitive season, so I do think the school tries to maximize their student's earnings within their capabilities.
Also can’t believe the Grand Prix final was canceled. Was ready for the empress to medal there.
Also if the Olympics are postponed for 1 year. I think Gracie Gold will be even better by next year. But also that must be tough for skaters to wait another year especially if they were at their peak. And then next year what if they’re not even reaching the same scores for this year.
I’ve been to Ontario and Quebec since the border reopened and both times I LOVED how they’re handling COVID compared to the US. Masks are still mandated at all indoor businesses/establishments, proof of vaccination is required for indoor dining, restaurants are required to take your phone number for contact tracing, etc.
There is some theory that it was Mishin behind Norway proposal. Considering all his pupils are advocating for raising age in recent interviews (Urmanov, Plushenko, Gulyakova) and Mishin himself refused to comment the proposal (and his camp will be the first and most evident beneficiar of it given that it affects mostly inside Russian competition) - it seems quite plausible.
You’re right but then he will have eteri on his back because she is pretty much jobless with this rule and for Mishin who is 80 years old… that’s not a good idea to start poking a bear like eteri
throw quad jumps in pairs are brutal. i remember yuko kavaguti landing in a painful heap on the ice after falling on a throw quad. quad jumps should be allowed but i feel sorry for women because they bear the brunt (literally and figurally) of any fall.
Omg, Dave! That sweater! All of my favorite colors! Gorgeous! ❤️
Thank you!
Come on Dave - I cannot knit *that* fast. I think I'm single-handedly keeping the yarn sellers of the world in business!
I'm still working on last week's gorgeousness. Although I did manage to fit in a wee baby matinee coat for my sister who's baby is coming no later than 16th Dec. Can't wait.
@@TheSkatingLesson Is it Missoni? It looks like it.
It’s sad that the GP final was cancelled but I like when there is no competition and you can discuss other topics. Very interesting show, guys! ❤️
"Transitions" is already part of the TES for jumps, isn't it? "Creative/difficult entry; creative exit." I think it should eliminated as part of PCS. Make it explicitly part of GOE. I don't understand eliminating interpretation, however, unless it is made part of performance, explicitly.
Transitions in and out of elements is not the same as having them in the whole program. If they eliminate it from PCS we will be back to more empty programs with even more emphasis on the jumps.
@@flywings111 Transitions are movements from one element to another. They can be added to spin and footwork GOE, too, if that is the concern.
Tiebreakers for the Spanish ice dancers are Finlandia, Europeans, and Spanish Nationals. Basically the competitions where they skate under the same judging panels.
I highly doubt the Olympics will be cancelled but we'll have to wait and see what will happen.
So this might not be the same thing, but when I was a rower, immediately following a race, we can’t wait to get out of the shoes, the force we would use would make our feet burn. It might be similar to ice dance and you just need to give your feet some relief? I’ve seen Zach Donohue also do this in the k&c. Just a thought lol 😂
I know that when I skated, during or at the end of the session, my feet would spasm and I would take my skates off and place them on the ice for a couple minutes. Feels great! But you also need perfect boots and it could also be a sign of needing different boots, breaking in boots or experiencing boot issues. I had the most issues when I tried to skate after pregnancy. My feet were slightly bigger and it was the worst. Really needed new skates or a new heat molding as some skates are heat moldable.
Long story short, some people experience this more than others. I can’t tell you how much you need the perfect boot and blade fitting for the individual. It’s such a fitted, personal item, that can cause many issues, including the feeling of your foot exploding if it’s just slightly too small or there’s pressure in the wrong areas. Having the right boot and blade for the skater is hands down one of the most important things in the sport.
Dave, you're in good company: the philosopher Wittgenstein said, "I don't care what I eat...as long as it's always the same." I think he spent years living on a couple cups of hot chocolate a day,
Also, I think you're right about Covid feeling as serious now as ever...at least for me personally. I'm in Michigan and we're back to all ER's full of Covid patients. My brother passed away from Covid on the 14th of last month; he didn't get to the ER until he was in cardiac arrest and that's way too late. My mom, who has dementia, came up positive and is now in the hospital with her oxygen level at 80%. Our hurry to get back to normal as quickly as possible has a cost in human lives.
Lastly, the Chopin competition jury has 18 members plus a chairperson: this year it took them 6 hours to decide the winner. That's why it's only held every 5 years...so many jurors to pay.
How old was your brother and was he fully vaccinated? I'm sorry for your loss. Also, I hope your mom is ok.
@@evanperilstein5308 He was 59, was obese and a diabetic, I'm pretty sure he was vaccinated...he worked as a school bus driver. He didn't like doctors though, and from the way his apartment looked, he tried to treat Covid with Robitussin. Thanks for your well wishes for my mom.
Sorry for your loss and hope your mom recovers. I am hoping that people will start taking precautions again, especially mask wearing since the numbers are increasing again.
@@louisehancock324 Thanks Louise, I hope they do too. People here in Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor are pretty good about masks...yet there are 115K screaming people packed into the football stadium...
In most cases the short programs are almost always so much more exciting and interesting to me as a viewer. There's a lot more variety in music choices esp when they don't have the issue of stamina weighing them down like in the free. I'd much rather we get rid of the free lol (but i get it's ridiculous on an athletic level) And I'm still on team no quads in the sp for the women. At this point the women who have quads in the free are already going to podium anyway, this way they have to actually work on their components. If I had to watch a competition where a Trusova would win every time she competed just bc she had a quad in the sp I think I'd give up watching.
Regarding cancellation of Grand Prix final - I believe Japan closed borders to all foreigners very rapidly after omicron became public- that pretty much made the competition impossible best I can understand. Still I am sad.
Yes when everyone so excited that this competitions came back, it’s frustrating that it got canceled.
Does anyone know if Javier's school is taking off?
And I noticed Bruno (Masot) putting skaters on at an event not too long ago - does he have a school now?
According the PCS description on Wikipedia:
Interpretation: This score reflects how well the judges feel that the skater is performing with their "soul" (whereas the Composition score is more about the choreography). Does the skater move in time to the music, or are all the movements just off by a beat or two? Does the skater reflect every little trill and ding with a corresponding skating move?
If we keep the "Interpretation" mark perhaps is should be renamed "Musicality/Timing" and remove the part about soul. That would make it more distinctive from performance especially for ice dance.
I keep thinking about how gymnastics had a judging scandal and they fixed their damn scoring, and I dont get how figure skating can't. I think they need to do a technical score and execution score. And the execution score starts from say in a free program a 75, but that's where you deduct for positions being incorrect, two footing jumps, choreography, etc. There should be a technical component score which is the base value of a program, where if you did your technical content this is your score. However if you abort a jump, you double or single a triple, your technical score comes down.
@@sgraham12345sg gymnastics scoring isn't really that fair either. not to say, current judging system in skating is fine, the issue is people who are executing it.
i think they should just have one PCS category like in 6.0 because the judges don't separate between PCS types anyway. or they should redo the categories to be:
Performance
Musicality
composition
Speed
Blade control.
transitions would go into composition and into GOE and interpretation would go into musicality + performance.
they could pilot using the Japanese IceScope technology to automatically assign speed scores
@@hannibaljustincase9985 you are right. Gymnastics people complain all the time about execution scores not being differentiated enough. I think they next to try some changes to the IJS but we don’t need another brand new system.
@@DesiraeGraham absolutely. I'm a huge gymnastics fan, and it's pretty similar case- although there is no GOE to separate elements, judges tend to favor gymnasts based on reputation and achievements(and your country to some extent as well). the E judging is even less transparent than TES/PCS in figure skating, because there are no protocols released: you literally have no clue how and what the judges deducted.
For Dave and Jonathan's information: The British Championships were held last week, with none other than Victor Petrenko in the K&C with 2 skating brothers from your rink Dave! No mention. Plus, one of if not the biggest star of Tokyo Olympics was Tom Daley, voted recently British Athlete of the Games not only by fans but by his fellow Athletes. You know there's a whole world out here apart from what's happening in N.Am, Russia and Asia. It's called EUROPE!
Watch the summer Olympics wasn’t the same without the crowds (especially rhythmic gymnastics). I don’t China will want to postpone the games.
Looking at the IOC involvement in Peng situation you know they won’t let anything cancel the games. Not having a GPF dose make the Olympics more exciting. Great video.
Great discussion of PCS. I agree that transitions are in a sense double scored - because they also add to the GOE for jumps. And the fact that the range in all PCS is so small clearly is suspect. Just because someone has good skating skills does not mean they have good interpretation, etc. It is always so clear judges are scoring the skater not the SKATE.
To the topic of merging some of the Component marks, Dave I would love to see your “best of” series continue with some of the artistic marks as well. I know what I define as skating skills, but would like to see who you consider the best. Same with choreography (what a loaded topic it could be! Oh the tagging!!) Just an idea!
Also- my first thought when GPF was cancelled was I wondered if we had seen Kostornaia in her final international competition. 😢
Good idea!
Your comments on Rod Black made me roar with laughter! We call him Captain Obvious. I can’t wait to see Nationals with ANYONE else in the booth with Tracy. It made me wild when he would interrupt her. We’re not alone in our dislike. I totally agree that Piper & Paul should have gone to the olympics with the Hitchcock program and I actually seem to have adjusted my memory to rewrite history; wishful thinking I suppose. As for Canadians getting behind our skaters who were born abroad, it would be lousy if we didn’t! 😁👍 It’s true that Keegan seems to have pure maple syrup in his veins. He does have a Canadian parent.
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ive always been told performance is like choreography but mainly arms or movement not involving elements, the composition is how well the program is laid out ie matching the music or ice layout, and then interpretation is selling the program
Happy Sunday! Love the sweaters. Thank you for another fantastic video :)
Also, the NHL allowing their players to participate again may help draw more viewers to not just the hockey but perhaps other events. A lot of hockey fans will be tuning in to watch the best of the best compete, and might be compelled to stick around to watch a couple other competitions.
Thank you!
I just realized how much Jonathan looks like Ben Affleck.
My fairytale fantasy is that if the Olympics are postponed, Rika is able to bounce back with her true lutz and strong skating skills. With all the injuries this year, postponement could be good for several skaters
Rod Black is out of there, praise the Goddess of Skating!
I really really enjoyed this episode guys.
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Great episode guys! I was thinking there wasn't much to discuss this week, but you certainly proved otherwise! I missed the pyramid! LOL.
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Sad that skate canada gave nam such low scores at challenge - even if the tech wasn't his best, the components were lower than at both GPs :(
Dave and Jonathan entertaining us. It was epic this week!
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A belated thought (I have many today, it seems): the Cricket Club is not the only one in crisis. I mean, apart from ice dance, what medal potential skaters other coaches in the west are teaching at the moment? There's Nathan (and Rafael has been banking his whole coaching career on him for how long?), Vincent (which coach can we credit for his..... success?), Shoma (can Lambiel deliver?), Yuzu (I'm not counting him out yet, the GPF cancellation plays in his favour). The men's podium is the only one with openings for Western coaches, really. Pairs in some competitions, but only Miura/Kihara stepping up? And then, which of these skaters will continue after the Olys? The Cricket Club doesn't seem to be investing in new talent any more than Rafael or the Granite Club or Colorado. Rafael happened to have inhereted Gogolev bc his parents concluded the CC didn't offer enough exclusive attention, it was a grudge and not necessarily a coaching upgrade. But if we look at the skaters coming up in Canada, US and Europe, they're almost all trained by coaches most people never heard of. Anyway, I'm not saying it's not a missed opportunity for all feds but Russia (Russians are doing it), because it is, these bigger clubs have more infrastructure to scout talent and not only develop them from juniors to seniors, but to give them a bigger platform to build their reputation. But maybe there's just no talent to scout and teaching Gogolev (and whatever he might become, or not) is the best any coach can aspire to at the moment.
It is certainly a big issue. There are issues that are financial and COVID related.
Clubs like the TCC don't scout talent. People come and ask to pay for their services -- and the price is steep, which is why most Canadian skaters (even in the Toronto area) have never trained there.
Could they just hold the jr Grand Prix after worlds because I don’t see any of the seniors really wanting to do it
I’m going to start timestamps in 45 minutes
They have begun!
Jonathan - you're spot on about Keegan's music. I'd love to see Keegan skate to "Let it Be" by the Beatles for his Free. I think he could really do well with that.
Wonderfully informative, as usual! Thank you!
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Fun fact: conversion therapy has officially become illegal here in Canada after a unanimous vote a couple weeks (or maybe even days) ago! (In relation to the Gogolev joke haha)
I don't think the Koreans are the only ones wearing too much fabric....why do Eteri's girls all have so many layers? Looks like they're in their "winter" outfits.
I would agree!
I applied a few years ago to volunteer at the olympics in China and like a month ago or so, they send me an email saying that they already selected the volunteers that will be working and unfortunately due to the pandemic only nationals from China were selected, they also mention that only people from China or that is currently living in China is going to be able to attend the events to prevent traveling from other countries, but who knows how everything will develop in February.
Hanyu has transitions into quads.
And out of them as well!
Not as many as he used to. GPF 2019 FS is nearly devoid of them.
@@rop888 that was only because he tried 5 quads for the first time. After that, he went back to his usual layouts with transitions and 4 quads.
@@rop888 well partly because he tried an extra quad but also, he’s not being justly rewarded for them (like compare Nathan’s PCS to his and it’s a joke) so why would he continue? He’s proven it’s possible if you’re good enough but if they don’t score PCS correctly, why would people try?
@@amethyst5512 Exactly.
Is Jonathan wearing a Nathan Chen top?
I think his skates are just tied up so tight he has to remove them immediately.
It was inevitable that the GPF get cancelled, what with the new variant out and about. I don't blame Japan for staying on the safe side; they've had the Summer Olympics already. Had the GPF gone on, I thought the placements would be for the Men: 1) Nathan, 2) Yuma, 3)Vincent; Women: 1) Kamila, 2) Anna, 3) Empress Liza (Maiia could be 3rd as well); Pairs: 1& 2) Sui/Han or Mishina/Galliamov; 3) Tarasova/Morozov or Boikova/Kozlovskii; Ice Dance: 1) Papadakis/Cizeron; 2) Sinitsyna/Katsalapov; 3) any other team besides Hubbell/Donohue. It's too bad the GPF was cancelled, but in truth, this is no Olympic qualifier. Nationals are what the skaters are really going for in order to go for the Olympics and Worlds. This could be a blessing in disguise for some skaters.
The Olympics has become less desirable to many countries around the world. By now, the IOC should be working on changing some, actually, many of the rules when it comes to finding a place to 'host' - or even just find one good place that can do it all instead, like one for the Summer Olympics and one for the Winter Olympics, in order to save money. As for Medvedeva retiring, I always thought of her as already retired. So is Alina Zagitova. I don't get why these skaters hold off on just admitting they are no longer competing and are retired. Honestly, what is the ISU even doing with these events? When Cup of China was cancelled, the location turned to Italy, and was held there. As for Beijing Olympics, I doubt China will cancel it. It's too close to opening, and they've worked too hard to promote it. The athletes have been waiting on this. Too much money has gone to this. The only thing the country will do is be hyper-vigilant about the new variant within the Olympic competition bubbles, as well as keep the numbers of spectators down, like in Japan. I haven't seen much of the Korean ranking competition, but I did see Cha Junhwan win as well as You Young in first place. Good for them, even with falls on their beginning jumps (You really needs to think about that 3A, whether to keep it or not, cuz she's always falling on it, too bad she's gone through puberty). Great episode, guys, it's a salve over the cancelled GPF meant for later this week!
Who is the man in the thumbnail, pictured with the 4 dressed up Sambo70 girls? He looks familiar, but I can't figure it out... :/
I think he is some tv show host.
@@ManchirTserendagva thanks!
Where is my lighter? Our mantra for this whole season.
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Is it actually true that Tarasova and morozov have been trying to leave skating but have been stopped? They do look miserable on the ice and they haven’t really had one season where they’ve completely dominated. Can the federation actually stop their top skaters from leaving?
the minimum age for all four figure skating disciplines at the senior level should be 18 years of age for men and women. no more prepubescent teens who all they can do is jump. that is what the junior division is for. we want mature, well rounded skaters who can perform jumps as well as have artistry and maturity. if a skater is great at 16 but not 18 or 19 then they are not truly great. we want men and women not teenagers. you see these teenagers skating to music they have no idea what it means -- yes i mean those russian teen girls skating to english music who have no idea what the lyrics mean. just look at all those young russian women who had to retire because of injuries they suffered from too much jumping damaging their fragile and still growing bodies. those russian women who won olympic gold in 2014 and 2018 are now all has beens. one or two year wonders. look at those who never even won a world championship because they matured and their bodies could not handle the jumps anymore. enough abuse of young teens.
That sounds great but I thought Dave made a really good point which changed my mind, which is most skaters choose to either stay/leave in the sport at ages 12-15. If you're showing prospects at that age, but you can only compete senior years down the line, how can anyone justify the investment?
literaly none of the sports have such age limit
@@SamKreinberg yes they do. There are several sports where the age limit is 18. One is men’s gymnastics.
I totally agree!
Raising the age limit wouldn't change anything in the long run. If TP and the judges would use the rulebooks correctly we wouldn't see such ridiculous results in the ladies. First and foremost correct judging is needed.
Besides it is a bit funny when North Americans criticise the system. I don't remember many NA figure skating fans complaining when Baiul, Lipinski and Hughes won Olympics at age 16, but now that Russians are winning everything the criticism come from US and Canadian fans, mostly. Double standard (and I say it as someone who is not a fan of the current state of ladies skating).
At 20:31 what does Jonathan mean by stupid shit? I was a toddler at the time so I have no idea what he's talking about, but so curious :D
@TSK: Have you guys read Katarina Witt's book "Only with passion"? It a great reading about the time and history of the sport we all love.
So according to recent results Valieva clearly is the new Maddie 😂
Kostornaia reminds me of Kalani
Usacheva of Brynn
Shcherbakova maybe Chloe or Nia
Trusova reminds me of Jojo with her recent sponsorships/selling products
for Khromykh, I really don't know
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Maybe Trusova is Asia - with her boldness and athleticism! The Kostornaia-Kalani comparison is so apt
Maia is definitely Nia. We all ignored her in the early seasons, now she's coming in hot.
Almost done with timestamps! I got through a lot of the video actually.
Thank you!