I’ve literally been subscribed to this account since the beginning. I found a clip of their very first little mini videos on some Mormon Instagram page and have watched every episode since then😂 keep doing what you’re doing guys, you’ve really helped my testimony grow
I have been interested since a teacher first told me about the Church in 2nd Grade(1971), and lately I've been trying to discuss it with missionaries on Facebook.
I'm getting baptized this Saturday and just wanted to express a thank you again for these videos. They have answered so many questions for me along this journey.
McLovin the Walrus the most educated people that are members of the church are more devoted to their religion, compared to other religions, the more educated, the less devoted they are. These aren’t people that don’t know how to reason. It’s true. And the reason why it’s not a huge religion is because truth is not a popular thing in the world.
Thank you for your story! It makes me feel like we’re friends 😂 I accepted the gospel pretty quickly too once I was taught by the missionaries. Thanks for taking me back!
I LOVE this episode!! I worked so hard on introducing people to our church and I know that the Spirit has since led me to some of my friends which has later been baptised! Being a member missionaries changed my mind and concept about "checklist" of serving a mission in 18 months and increase my desire to be a missionary for the rest of my life :)
Thank you Kwaku for sharing your conversation journey!! Your conversion has helped me along my own journey. I am getting baptized this Saturday( just four days away). Thank you sharing!!!!
Uhm... I've been a member for a little more'n fifty years an' I've never heard of what you keep sayin'; "YSA" was it? What is that please? I seriously dunno' what you are referring to? By the way, my good hubby-buddy an' I only recently discovered Kwaku's videos. Then, I found this video after watchin' Kwaku's video 'bout how he became a Mormon. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING ~ ~ ~ alla' way Around!!! Thank you for ALLA' Great information! I am SO Blown Away by so much that I am learning. Thank you!! Thank You! THANK YOU!!! Keep the information coming. I CanNot get enough! I LOVE it!!!
I love hearing about the Cy high schools and the Houston temple grounds! I went to Klein Oak and the Houston temple is the first temple I went to as a convert. The grounds are really beautiful and I remember driving by the temple and the feeling that it gave me just passing it is one of the reasons I looked into the church.
Hopefully you're hearing this message more than just me. You guys. Literally every single video with Kwaku in it, he's been erased. You are not the USSR! Stop doing what they do!! Be the examples of Christ you claim to be. Joseph owned his mistakes. He didn't hide them.
The Bible states the God is the only one - Isaiah 43:10 10"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. How do Mormons reconcile this with the belief that "as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become?"
91: 1. Thank you for the question.Father in Heaven has been our Father in Heaven for our entire existence. We have never had another option. There will never be a heavenly child protective services or heavenly family court that will change that.There will never be another option. Jesus Christ has been our only option for a Savior from the moment that He was chosen by Father. We have never had another option. We will never have another option. In other words for us there is only one God (meaning one group of Gods with a perfect unity of purpose). There scriptures are clear that Father and Jesus have created worlds without number. I think that means populated worlds. There isn't clear in His revelations to us through his prophets about whether we have a grandpa, uncle, aunt, grandma, etcetera in Heaven. I think that is because it doesn't matter to what we do now. We could use a sports metaphor here. An athlete doesn't need to know how many other coaches are in his league. The athlete just needs to know what his coaches strategy is.
@@Hamann9631 Thanks for your answer, Hamann. My question related to Isaiah 43:10 though - God clearly states there were no gods before Him nor will there be after Him. If God who knows all says there are no other gods, how can Mormons reconcile this with their view that there are other gods on other planets, and that God was once a man and became exalted?
This is a good article that puts that scripture in proper context. Isaiah is often misunderstood in the scripture by protestants and catholics alike. Basically Isaiah is saying that God is the only God that they worship and covenant with. Not that he is the only God in existence. scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2016/09/refuting-jeff-durbin-on-mormonism.html?m=1
Kwaku, have you ever read these verses? Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
@Matthew T Fields, Good scripture and true.. Read again the key word in vs 21 the strong true foundation is to do the will of God. How do you know the will of God, not the will of man like Paul said in Galatian 1 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Now the will of God is revealed to his living prophet because. . 7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Now we are not strangers for Him and He is not a stranger for us. Jesus Christ will always revealing his will through our living Prophet, Russell M. Nelson.
I think Kwaku seems like one of the coolest guys you could ever be around. I also think that the spirit that he talks of is not of God. His testimony is about feelings. God speaks and he does not stutter about being the one and only God. I've heard him give talks and say how the Jews were polytheist. The only thing that matters is what God says about himself in the Bible. All other so-called "scripture" is not of the one true God.
Anyone reading the Scriptures can see that many "Jews were polytheists". However, what Kwaku is really mixed up about, is that Judaism from it's beginning, is not polytheistic; it is monotheistic (read about Abraham in the Scriptures). Apparently Kwaku has read some of the perspectives of liberal, atheistic, theologians who interpret ancient Jewish history according to an evolutionary paradigm. Their ideology supports some of what he wants to build a case about, so he thinks their perspective is convincing. I perceive that he has no idea concerning the significance of his mistake. I would suspect, based on his statements, that Kwaku has no formal training in theology. This seems very apparent, because his misunderstandings betray his knowledge of the subject. I agree that Kwaku seems to be a person who makes decisions of veracity based on emotions and subjectivity, as most members of the LDS church do. The LDS church would not have much appeal to rational people who try to make decisions of veracity on objective standards. This is probably why the church uses the methodology of friendliness, ministry and relationship to win people to the LDS Church.They are good at that and win many people because of charisma (but hardly any due to an objective evaluation of the truth claims). I have never encountered any members of the LDS church who want to sit down and give me objective reasons why the claims of Joseph Smith and his teachings have objective verifiable, evidential support, to support the claims. Many will just tell you to "pray about it". Of course I have honestly prayed about it several times, and the Holy Spirit compels me to look at the objective facts, and when I do, the claims of Joseph Smith fails the test. No one in the church wants to discuss these facts and they accuse me of being disingenuous. I know that is not true. The Holy Spirit confirms the lack of the truth in the claims of the LDS church, by objectively evaluating the claims and then confirms in my heart, that the LDS church is not telling the truth. Any subjective feelings or subjective confirmations must have a factual basis as a foundation, and the LDS Church apparently has no objective foundation. Only people who use subjectivity in their evaluation of truth, could altruistically become a member of the LDS. I do agree that Kwaku, as well as the girls in the video are charismatic and very likable. Most members of the LDS Church, that I know are like that. Wonderful people, but truly mislead. DZ
I’m so trying to figure out this new focus that people who disagree with LDS doctrine have come up with and is in just about every discussion I read ... how testimony is all about feelings and therefore can’t be of God or the spirit of God. ???? What is all that about? So how does one know about the Spirit if they can’t/don’t FEEL His presence? What other senses are left to help one to know? SIGHT? That would be great if everyone were given that opportunity! SMELL? TOUCH? HEARING? TASTE? How does one know that someone is in love? They have a FEELING, that’s how. At least that’s how it happens with me, and I’m 100% fine with that. Genuine Question? How do you know you are having a spiritual experience if not through feelings?
@@Silverheart1956 " The LDS church would not have much appeal to rational people who try to make decisions of veracity on objective standards. " So what would constitute "rational people"? Heart surgeons maybe? Noble laurates? Nuclear engineers? Newspaper publishers? Presidential cabinet members? Supreme court justices? Corporate presidents? University presidents/deans? FBI agents? Secret Service agents? Astrophysicists? Geologists? Microsoft software architects/engineers/programmers? Nebula winning Scifi authors? RPG developers? Philosophy professors? Sociologists? Automotive Quality Control Engineers?
Dear @@krysaliyah, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your questions. I didn't know you made a response. Usually I receive a notice that someone has responded, but I received no notice. Your question: " how testimony is all about feelings and therefore can’t be of God or the spirit of God. " Well, I understand you concern here. I do not believe all testimony is about feelings or totally subjective (though some are). Arguably, one of the greatest Christian theologian/philosophers, Dr. William Craig, says the most convincing evidence for the Christian faith is the inner testimony of the Holy Spirit. However this is NOT a feeling. It is much deeper. Martin Luther is famous for his quote: “Feelings come and feelings go, And feelings are deceiving; My warrant is the Word of God-- Naught else is worth believing. Many people, (even "professing Christians") often mistake feelings, for the inner witness of the Holy Spirit. Consider that, followers of many other religions, often express the inner peace/confirmation that gives proof that their religion is true, even when the various religions have contrary beliefs. Dear @@krysaliyah, what makes my experience, your experience and their experience valid, particularly in the light of the fact, that the very basic beliefs of many religious systems, are contrary. Do you think there can be more than one truth concerning God and our relationship with him ? Can all religions be correct and true at the same time, because everyone has this inward confirmation, even though the beliefs are contradictory ? This is relativism. As a Christian, our beliefs cannot accept universal relativism. Some things are true, and some things are false. I believe there are many religious systems that are false, but there is one that is true. Love "How does one know that someone is in love? They have a FEELING, that’s how." Be careful to be aware that what many consider to be love, is actually infatuation or even lust. Initially, what many people think is love may in reality be imitations of true love, and often young people are not experienced or knowledgeable enough to know the difference. Of course, these feelings (alternatives of genuine love), that can later develop into true love. Genuine love (Godly love) is not a feeling; genuine love is a choice to commit to someone. Consider that the Greek language has several words to describe "love". When Scripture says God loved the world, do you think He just had an emotional situation where He "fell in love" with us ? God's love for us, is a choice of commitment were He says, "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom. 5:8) This kind of love is called, "ἀγάπη" (agapé), love. (all Christians should certainly be aware of the different kinds of love described in Scripture) "How do you know you are having a spiritual experience if not through feelings ?" Great Question ! New Christians often have this question. The inner witness of the Holy Spirit is NOT a feeling. It is much deeper than mere human emotions. It is founded on FAITH, not feelings. When Peter was hanging upon a cross, upside down (according to tradition He requested this method), he probably wasn't relying on human emotions and feelings to sustain his commitment to Jesus. It was by " πίστις" (pistis), which in English, is translated as faith, meaning trust; in the promise of Jesus, to give us life (present and future after death). Dear @@krysaliyah, sadly it appears that you are not aware of the difference between feelings and " πίστις" (trust). This is one of the first things one should learn as a new Christian. It is in my 101 orientation course, for new Christians. I definitely, do not want my relationship with Jesus Christ to be based on feelings. I want my relationship to be based on πίστις" (trust), in the reality of His death on the cross, to rescue me from my sins, and His resurrection, proving the power to conquer death and giveing evidence, that he has the power to fulfill His promise of salvation. My πίστις" (trust) is based on the reality of the historicity of His death and resurrection, essentially based on facts. (please read 1 Cor. 15:1-20 - we don't depend on "vain" faith but we place out trust in the facts of his death & resurrection.) So Dear @@krysaliyah, here is your question: 1. What makes my experience, your experience and their experience valid, particularly in the light of the fact, that the very basic beliefs of many religious systems, are contrary. 2. Do you think there can be more than one truth concerning God and our relationship with him ? 3. Can all religions be correct and true at the same time, because everyone has feelings that their religion is true, even though the beliefs of many religions are contradictory ? I hope this explains some of the questions you have, and can explain some of the misconceptions you have about Christianity. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have questions about this. Sorry it is so long, but my answer is so brief. Be well and safe in Him, DZ
Dear Brett Majeske , I had a good explanation of why your supposition has problems, but I hit the wrong button and it disappeared. (Oh, the disappointment !) I will not type it over, but give a summary. I assume your point is that, because these people are accomplished professionals, with credentials and education, that that necessitates that they must be rational thinking people. Please correct me if I misunderstand you. Problems with this assertion. 1. You are employing a logical fallacy called, "Appeal to Accomplishment". "A form of this fallacy also occurs when arguments are evaluated on the accomplishments, or success, of the person making the argument, rather than on the merits of the argument itself." Credentials, education and professional status, do not necessarily mean these people are capable of, or always employ rational thinking skills. I can think of “many” examples, where I have encountered highly accomplished, well educated, professionals, who exhibited poor reasoning skills. 2. What happens when two of these professionals within their respective fields, disagree with one another and their suppositions are contrary or contradictory to each other ? Surely, this often happens and it is apparent that one of the two (or both) is wrong. Why ? Probably, someone made a mistake due to lack of reasoning. In this situation, someone is probably not employing rational thinking skills. Yes, professionals do make you very poor decisions that are unreasonable. 3. Credentialed, well educated, accomplished professionals sometimes speak outside of their field of education and experience. They may very well make irrational assertions, in this situation. Example: Stephen Hawking, a very prominent theoretical physicist and cosmetologist, coauthored a book entitled, "The Grand Design". In this book, when he makes the assertion that “philosophy is dead”, we didn’t see the professors in the Philosophy Department of Cambridge University resign their posts. It was their contention that Hawking made a very philosophically, naive assertion. Dr John Lennox of Oxford made the following statements about Hawking’s assertion: Hawking himself, has not only not kept up with philosophy, he does not appear to understand the first thing about it, nor its commitment to the elementary rules of logical analysis. For Hawking’s statement is itself a philosophical statement. It is manifestly not a statement of science; it is a philosophical statement about science. Therefore, because it says that philosophy is dead, it contradicts itself. It is a classic example of logical incoherence. Notice Lennox says that, this world famous, highly educated, highly credentialed, professional scientist, exhibits a lack of understanding of “the elementary rules of logical analysis.” How could Hawking, an man of such status, have made such a naive assertion ? Lennox says: What this all goes to show is that nonsense remains nonsense, even when said by world-famous scientists. The point here is that credentialed, educated and professionals can exhibit some rather irrational thinking skills when speaking outside of their field of education and experience. Summary: You seem to assume that because, the professionals you listed, are highly credentialed, well educated, prominent professionals, they must therefore exhibit rational thinking, in all matters, at all times, even outside of their field of expertise and education. I believe that the adherence to the elementary rules of logical analysis applied to the merits of the argument itself, is what defines rational thinking; not the credentials, education, or professional status of people. If you are a physician, what make you a rational thinking person is how you follow the rules of logical thinking, not by virtue that you are a physician (or any other profession). The principle underlaying your supposition would say that a “pastor”, would “always” tell the truth, by virtue of his position and profession. I would say no ! The truthfulness of a pastor would be determined by whether or not, what he says, is in line with reality and truth. It is all about his actions, behavior and what he says, not by his title, profession, education, credentials, or status. So you ask the very relevant question, “what would constitute ‘rational people’ “ ? Rational people are determined by how closely they follow and apply the rules of logic in their thinking, not by profession or any other status considerations. II hope I understood your supposition correctly. You didn't specifically describe your point. I just assumed your question was rhetorical and meant to imply the point I assumed. If not please explain. If you have questions concerning these points I will try to answer them. Be well and be safe in Him DZ
I’ve literally been subscribed to this account since the beginning. I found a clip of their very first little mini videos on some Mormon Instagram page and have watched every episode since then😂 keep doing what you’re doing guys, you’ve really helped my testimony grow
What a BLESSING!!!
I have been interested since a teacher first told me about the Church in 2nd Grade(1971), and lately I've been trying to discuss it with missionaries on Facebook.
Good for you, Joseph! Now ~ ~ ~ I challenge you to talk to missionaries... in Person. It might just help. I'll be watching...
What a wonderful story. Paige is such an amazing example to me.
You are too sweet. Thank you so much
@@paigegunderson6651 you are beautiful. Inside and out
I'm getting baptized this Saturday and just wanted to express a thank you again for these videos. They have answered so many questions for me along this journey.
Adam Maxwell That is amazing!
McLovin the Walrus Maybe people keep "falling into it" is because it is true?
McLovin the Walrus Where did you find that info? That is quite alarming...
Matthew 7:14
McLovin the Walrus the most educated people that are members of the church are more devoted to their religion, compared to other religions, the more educated, the less devoted they are. These aren’t people that don’t know how to reason. It’s true. And the reason why it’s not a huge religion is because truth is not a popular thing in the world.
Handsome young man. God bless you. It doesn't matter what religion you belong too....your heart is gold.
Thank you for your story! It makes me feel like we’re friends 😂
I accepted the gospel pretty quickly too once I was taught by the missionaries. Thanks for taking me back!
I LOVE this episode!! I worked so hard on introducing people to our church and I know that the Spirit has since led me to some of my friends which has later been baptised! Being a member missionaries changed my mind and concept about "checklist" of serving a mission in 18 months and increase my desire to be a missionary for the rest of my life :)
I'm not LDS officially but I'm working on the lessons.
as of the 9th of June I was confirmed into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@@holytrailsministry6573 🙏🏽it’s hard but worth it
Convert here, if you really want to know, you can find out. Things can make sense but really pray to know from your heart ❤️
Interesting what's being said without words when Kwaku gets removed from this video's thumbnail.
Thank you Kwaku for sharing your conversation journey!! Your conversion has helped me along my own journey. I am getting baptized this Saturday( just four days away). Thank you sharing!!!!
Tabitha Wood How’s it going?!
saints unscripted is the GOAT
So heart warming!
Love this, my dad is a convert and my husband. Love you 😁
"my dad is a convert and my husband"
Why did you marry your dad ?
@@DaisyPumpkin23 oh, ya so cute.
Bring back Kwaku’s picture in the thumbnail.
That opening scene with Kwaku's sudden realization followed by, "nonoonononono!" HAAHAHHAHA
So dang great
Great video!
omg I lived 30 mins away from CyRich!!! I'm also a convert and have a similar story to you :)
Uhm... I've been a member for a little more'n fifty years an' I've never heard of what you keep sayin'; "YSA" was it? What is that please? I seriously dunno' what you are referring to? By the way, my good hubby-buddy an' I only recently discovered Kwaku's videos. Then, I found this video after watchin' Kwaku's video 'bout how he became a Mormon. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING ~ ~ ~ alla' way Around!!!
Thank you for ALLA' Great information! I am SO Blown Away by so much that I am learning. Thank you!! Thank You! THANK YOU!!! Keep the information coming. I CanNot get enough! I LOVE it!!!
YSA=Young Single Adults
YSA means Young Single Adults, the 18-30 age group for whom age-appropriate activities are provided.
I love hearing about the Cy high schools and the Houston temple grounds! I went to Klein Oak and the Houston temple is the first temple I went to as a convert. The grounds are really beautiful and I remember driving by the temple and the feeling that it gave me just passing it is one of the reasons I looked into the church.
The interesting thing is I know all these places since I'm also a member from Houston
where is kwaku?
Enjoy you guys, I'm laughing so hard...you guys are great and funny
I met Paige Gunderson in houston when I lived there !!!
So why did you remove Kwaku from the thumbnail? So weird.
Why isn’t his picture in the thumbnail anymore? Kinda weird
I went to Cypress Creek in Houston Texas, we called the school Cy-Creek
I really enjoyed this video, but I'll admit, my first reaction was disappointment that the next Saints video wasn't up today. Thursday, I hope?
Very cool story.
Favorite 💜🧡💚❤💙💛
Oh my gosh! They kept interrupting him. Let the man talk! :) No hard feelings! That was pretty funny!
Rebecca Larson Totally! O my goodness, do they know when to sh ... I mean, stop talking?!!!
Hopefully you're hearing this message more than just me. You guys. Literally every single video with Kwaku in it, he's been erased. You are not the USSR! Stop doing what they do!! Be the examples of Christ you claim to be. Joseph owned his mistakes. He didn't hide them.
The Bible states the God is the only one - Isaiah 43:10 10"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
How do Mormons reconcile this with the belief that "as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become?"
91: 1. Thank you for the question.Father in Heaven has been our Father in Heaven for our entire existence. We have never had another option. There will never be a heavenly child protective services or heavenly family court that will change that.There will never be another option.
Jesus Christ has been our only option for a Savior from the moment that He was chosen by Father. We have never had another option. We will never have another option.
In other words for us there is only one God (meaning one group of Gods with a perfect unity of purpose). There scriptures are clear that Father and Jesus have created worlds without number. I think that means populated worlds. There isn't clear in His revelations to us through his prophets about whether we have a grandpa, uncle, aunt, grandma, etcetera in Heaven. I think that is because it doesn't matter to what we do now. We could use a sports metaphor here. An athlete doesn't need to know how many other coaches are in his league. The athlete just needs to know what his coaches strategy is.
@@Hamann9631 Thanks for your answer, Hamann. My question related to Isaiah 43:10 though - God clearly states there were no gods before Him nor will there be after Him. If God who knows all says there are no other gods, how can Mormons reconcile this with their view that there are other gods on other planets, and that God was once a man and became exalted?
This is a good article that puts that scripture in proper context. Isaiah is often misunderstood in the scripture by protestants and catholics alike. Basically Isaiah is saying that God is the only God that they worship and covenant with. Not that he is the only God in existence.
scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2016/09/refuting-jeff-durbin-on-mormonism.html?m=1
Yea. I had friends who thought they were getting steak as well.
KWAKU IS SO PRECIOUS 😭❤️
Kwaku, have you ever read these verses?
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
@Matthew T Fields,
Good scripture and true..
Read again the key word in vs 21
the strong true foundation is to do the will of God.
How do you know the will of God, not the will of man like Paul said in
Galatian 1
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Now the will of God is revealed to his living prophet because. .
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Now we are not strangers for Him and He is not a stranger for us.
Jesus Christ will always revealing his will through our living Prophet,
Russell M. Nelson.
I know you are young but so much giggling and carry on it's difficult to take it seriously. Happy for you Kwaku you have found your truth
From Oz....we love your post......except, use our proper name lol
"Book of Mormons"...
GOODTAGO LOL! English plurals 101. 😳😀
LDS women are so attractive.
Probably the lack of plastic and drugs and the minimal makeup
Texas. Smh. Oh I'm from Texas
I think Kwaku seems like one of the coolest guys you could ever be around. I also think that the spirit that he talks of is not of God. His testimony is about feelings. God speaks and he does not stutter about being the one and only God. I've heard him give talks and say how the Jews were polytheist. The only thing that matters is what God says about himself in the Bible. All other so-called "scripture" is not of the one true God.
Anyone reading the Scriptures can see that many "Jews were polytheists". However, what Kwaku is really mixed up about, is that Judaism from it's beginning, is not polytheistic; it is monotheistic (read about Abraham in the Scriptures). Apparently Kwaku has read some of the perspectives of liberal, atheistic, theologians who interpret ancient Jewish history according to an evolutionary paradigm. Their ideology supports some of what he wants to build a case about, so he thinks their perspective is convincing. I perceive that he has no idea concerning the significance of his mistake. I would suspect, based on his statements, that Kwaku has no formal training in theology. This seems very apparent, because his misunderstandings betray his knowledge of the subject.
I agree that Kwaku seems to be a person who makes decisions of veracity based on emotions and subjectivity, as most members of the LDS church do. The LDS church would not have much appeal to rational people who try to make decisions of veracity on objective standards. This is probably why the church uses the methodology of friendliness, ministry and relationship to win people to the LDS Church.They are good at that and win many people because of charisma (but hardly any due to an objective evaluation of the truth claims). I have never encountered any members of the LDS church who want to sit down and give me objective reasons why the claims of Joseph Smith and his teachings have objective verifiable, evidential support, to support the claims. Many will just tell you to "pray about it".
Of course I have honestly prayed about it several times, and the Holy Spirit compels me to look at the objective facts, and when I do, the claims of Joseph Smith fails the test. No one in the church wants to discuss these facts and they accuse me of being disingenuous. I know that is not true. The Holy Spirit confirms the lack of the truth in the claims of the LDS church, by objectively evaluating the claims and then confirms in my heart, that the LDS church is not telling the truth.
Any subjective feelings or subjective confirmations must have a factual basis as a foundation, and the LDS Church apparently has no objective foundation. Only people who use subjectivity in their evaluation of truth, could altruistically become a member of the LDS.
I do agree that Kwaku, as well as the girls in the video are charismatic and very likable. Most members of the LDS Church, that I know are like that. Wonderful people, but truly mislead.
DZ
I’m so trying to figure out this new focus that people who disagree with LDS doctrine have come up with and is in just about every discussion I read ... how testimony is all about feelings and therefore can’t be of God or the spirit of God. ???? What is all that about? So how does one know about the Spirit if they can’t/don’t FEEL His presence? What other senses are left to help one to know? SIGHT? That would be great if everyone were given that opportunity! SMELL? TOUCH? HEARING? TASTE? How does one know that someone is in love? They have a FEELING, that’s how. At least that’s how it happens with me, and I’m 100% fine with that. Genuine Question? How do you know you are having a spiritual experience if not through feelings?
@@Silverheart1956 " The LDS church would not have much appeal to rational people who try to make decisions of veracity on objective standards. "
So what would constitute "rational people"? Heart surgeons maybe? Noble laurates? Nuclear engineers? Newspaper publishers? Presidential cabinet members? Supreme court justices? Corporate presidents? University presidents/deans? FBI agents? Secret Service agents? Astrophysicists? Geologists? Microsoft software architects/engineers/programmers? Nebula winning Scifi authors? RPG developers? Philosophy professors? Sociologists? Automotive Quality Control Engineers?
Dear @@krysaliyah,
I'm sorry I didn't respond to your questions. I didn't know you made a response. Usually I receive a notice that someone has responded, but I received no notice.
Your question:
" how testimony is all about feelings and therefore can’t be of God or the spirit of
God. "
Well, I understand you concern here. I do not believe all testimony is about feelings or totally subjective (though some are). Arguably, one of the greatest Christian theologian/philosophers, Dr. William Craig, says the most convincing evidence for the Christian faith is the inner testimony of the Holy Spirit. However this is NOT a feeling. It is much deeper.
Martin Luther is famous for his quote:
“Feelings come and feelings go, And feelings are deceiving;
My warrant is the Word of God-- Naught else is worth believing.
Many people, (even "professing Christians") often mistake feelings, for the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.
Consider that, followers of many other religions, often express the inner peace/confirmation that gives proof that their religion is true, even when the various religions have contrary beliefs.
Dear @@krysaliyah, what makes my experience, your experience and their experience valid, particularly in the light of the fact, that the very basic beliefs of many religious systems, are contrary. Do you think there can be more than one truth concerning God and our relationship with him ?
Can all religions be correct and true at the same time, because everyone has this inward confirmation, even though the beliefs are contradictory ?
This is relativism. As a Christian, our beliefs cannot accept universal relativism. Some things are true, and some things are false. I believe there are many religious systems that are false, but there is one that is true.
Love
"How does one know that someone is in love? They have a FEELING, that’s how."
Be careful to be aware that what many consider to be love, is actually infatuation or even lust. Initially, what many people think is love may in reality be imitations of true love, and often young people are not experienced or knowledgeable enough to know the difference. Of course, these feelings (alternatives of genuine love), that can later develop into true love.
Genuine love (Godly love) is not a feeling; genuine love is a choice to commit to someone. Consider that the Greek language has several words to describe "love". When Scripture says God loved the world, do you think He just had an emotional situation where He "fell in love" with us ? God's love for us, is a choice of commitment were He says,
"but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners,
Christ died for us." (Rom. 5:8)
This kind of love is called, "ἀγάπη" (agapé), love. (all Christians should certainly be aware of the different kinds of love described in Scripture)
"How do you know you are having a spiritual experience if not through feelings ?"
Great Question ! New Christians often have this question. The inner witness of the Holy Spirit is NOT a feeling. It is much deeper than mere human emotions. It is founded on FAITH, not feelings.
When Peter was hanging upon a cross, upside down (according to tradition He requested this method), he probably wasn't relying on human emotions and feelings to sustain his commitment to Jesus. It was by " πίστις" (pistis), which in English, is translated as faith, meaning trust; in the promise of Jesus, to give us life (present and future after death).
Dear @@krysaliyah, sadly it appears that you are not aware of the difference between feelings and " πίστις" (trust). This is one of the first things one should learn as a new Christian. It is in my 101 orientation course, for new Christians.
I definitely, do not want my relationship with Jesus Christ to be based on feelings. I want my relationship to be based on πίστις" (trust), in the reality of His death on the cross, to rescue me from my sins, and His resurrection, proving the power to conquer death and giveing evidence, that he has the power to fulfill His promise of salvation. My πίστις" (trust) is based on the reality of the historicity of His death and resurrection, essentially based on facts. (please read 1 Cor. 15:1-20 - we don't depend on "vain" faith but we place out trust in the facts of his death & resurrection.)
So Dear @@krysaliyah, here is your question:
1. What makes my experience, your experience and their experience valid, particularly in the light of the fact, that the very basic beliefs of many religious systems, are contrary.
2. Do you think there can be more than one truth concerning God and our relationship with him ?
3. Can all religions be correct and true at the same time, because everyone has feelings that their religion is true, even though the beliefs of many religions are contradictory ?
I hope this explains some of the questions you have, and can explain some of the misconceptions you have about Christianity.
Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have questions about this. Sorry it is so long, but my answer is so brief.
Be well and safe in Him,
DZ
Dear Brett Majeske ,
I had a good explanation of why your supposition has problems, but I hit the wrong button and it disappeared. (Oh, the disappointment !) I will not type it over, but give a summary.
I assume your point is that, because these people are accomplished professionals, with credentials and education, that that necessitates that they must be rational thinking people. Please correct me if I misunderstand you.
Problems with this assertion.
1. You are employing a logical fallacy called, "Appeal to Accomplishment".
"A form of this fallacy also occurs when arguments are evaluated
on the accomplishments, or success, of the person making the
argument, rather than on the merits of the argument itself."
Credentials, education and professional status, do not necessarily mean these people are capable of, or always employ rational thinking skills. I can think of “many” examples, where I have encountered highly accomplished, well educated, professionals, who exhibited poor reasoning skills.
2. What happens when two of these professionals within their respective fields, disagree with one another and their suppositions are contrary or contradictory to each other ? Surely, this often happens and it is apparent that one of the two (or both) is wrong. Why ? Probably, someone made a mistake due to lack of reasoning. In this situation, someone is probably not employing rational thinking skills. Yes, professionals do make you very poor decisions that are unreasonable.
3. Credentialed, well educated, accomplished professionals sometimes speak outside of their field of education and experience. They may very well make irrational assertions, in this situation.
Example:
Stephen Hawking, a very prominent theoretical physicist and cosmetologist, coauthored a book entitled, "The Grand Design". In this book, when he makes the assertion that “philosophy is dead”, we didn’t see the professors in the Philosophy Department of Cambridge University resign their posts. It was their contention that Hawking made a very philosophically, naive assertion.
Dr John Lennox of Oxford made the following statements about Hawking’s assertion:
Hawking himself, has not only not kept up with philosophy, he does not appear to
understand the first thing about it, nor its commitment to the elementary rules of logical
analysis. For Hawking’s statement is itself a philosophical statement. It is manifestly not
a statement of science; it is a philosophical statement about science. Therefore, because
it says that philosophy is dead, it contradicts itself. It is a classic example of logical
incoherence.
Notice Lennox says that, this world famous, highly educated, highly credentialed, professional scientist, exhibits a lack of understanding of “the elementary rules of logical analysis.” How could Hawking, an man of such status, have made such a naive assertion ? Lennox says:
What this all goes to show is that nonsense remains nonsense, even when said by
world-famous scientists.
The point here is that credentialed, educated and professionals can exhibit some rather irrational thinking skills when speaking outside of their field of education and experience.
Summary:
You seem to assume that because, the professionals you listed, are highly credentialed, well educated, prominent professionals, they must therefore exhibit rational thinking, in all matters, at all times, even outside of their field of expertise and education.
I believe that the adherence to the elementary rules of logical analysis applied to the merits of the argument itself, is what defines rational thinking; not the credentials, education, or professional status of people.
If you are a physician, what make you a rational thinking person is how you follow the rules of logical thinking, not by virtue that you are a physician (or any other profession).
The principle underlaying your supposition would say that a “pastor”, would “always” tell the truth, by virtue of his position and profession.
I would say no ! The truthfulness of a pastor would be determined by whether or not, what he says, is in line with reality and truth. It is all about his actions, behavior and what he says, not by his title, profession, education, credentials, or status.
So you ask the very relevant question, “what would constitute ‘rational people’ “ ?
Rational people are determined by how closely they follow and apply the rules of logic in their thinking, not by profession or any other status considerations.
II hope I understood your supposition correctly. You didn't specifically describe your point. I just assumed your question was rhetorical and meant to imply the point I assumed. If not please explain. If you have questions concerning these points I will try to answer them.
Be well and be safe in Him
DZ
They're both pretty