Beretta 38/42: Simplified But Still Excellent
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- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2022
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The Beretta Model 38A was an outstanding SMG at the beginning of World War Two, loaded with features and very easy to shoot. However, it was expensive and complex to produce, and pressures of war forced Beretta to progressively simplify its construction. This happened incrementally, but the most obvious set of changes was the adoption of the Model 38/42 pattern. This involved shortening the stock and removing the magazine cover and the barrel shroud. A series of different barrel and bolt assemblies were used, with self-contained springs and fluted barrels at first and smooth barrels with non-captive springs later (as seen on this example).
It should be noted that while the designation 38/43 is sometimes seen referring to this smooth-barrel type, I believe that is not an appropriate name. There is an official 38/43 model; a folding-stock paratrooper pattern (which is exceedingly rare). While it is tempting to assign a specific name to each change in the design, that does not appear to have happened officially with Beretta and these guns.
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The Italian government in the 1930s should've asked Beretta to design a light machine gun for the Italian military. I bet Beretta would've designed a better gun than the Breda M30.
With that as the bar, I think anyone would've been able to design something better
NUH UH Modello 30 was just the best ever !
Several designs made in the '30s were better than the Breda 30 (IE the Scotti LMG, or the Terni 1931). Probelm is that the Breda 30 had been adopted in 1930, and no Army revert a decision made only few years before, for something marginally better.
@@saltnpepper764 Surely not the BAR. For how much unsatisfactory the Breda 30 was, it had not a pencil, fixed, barrel.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Well for example the Germans started to replace Dreyse MG 13 LMGs adopted in 1930 with MG 34s from 1935 onwards and the M14 was the standard service rifle of the US for only 5 years so it's not completely implausible that the Italian military could've replaced the Breda M30 with something better in the mid to late 1930s.
I'm an Italian who in 1967 joined, as second Lieutenent, the Italian Carabinieri ( Italian Military Police) and received a MAB 1939/49 which was a MAB 1942 with a long button in the stock wich had to to be depressed before shooting to unblock the bolt. This button was a safety against unintentional discharge of a loaded weapon by hitting the butt against a hard surface. This happened often when sitting in cramped place like a jeep a trooper kept the MAB between the legs with the stock leaned on the flooring of the jeep and the vehicle jumped over an obstacle operating the bolt and shooting a bullet sometime with a fatal outcome fir the troopet. This gun was outstanding from every standpoint but its tactical role in Italy was totally misunderstood. As its name Moschetto Automatico Beretta, aka MAB, literally means Automatic Musket Beretta i.e. in Italian Automatic Short Rifle or in British English "Machine Carbine" and Beretta is the renown name of the Italian producer, it implies that in 1935 in Italy it wasn't concrived as a submachine gun, as the Thomson, but as an Assault Rifle for asssult troops as the German MP18/28 and the British Lanchester " Machine Carbine" All these guns were intended for assault troop, in German Stoßtruppen, which needed an Automatic Rifle shooting an ammunition less powerful than a regular cartrige. And this was the 9x19 cartrige with the same dimensions of the 9x19 Luger but with a more powerful power which could thwrow a bullet at 200 mt with reasonable precision. The MAB 38 and following models like MAB38/42 38/49 etc "Machine Carbine" or "Short Rifle" as the Italians called it, was delivered in Italy to all assault troops instead of a rifle and not only to selected ones or to non non commisioned officers. This situatoon in Italy lasted until the fifties when a Battle Rifle, not an Assault Rifle, the BERETTA BM59 in 7,65 x51 caliber was issued to all troops. It was a big mistake because the cartrige was too powerful for automatic fire and the MAB 49 was recalled in service for assault troops until 1990 when the Asssult Rifle in caliber 223 AR 70/90 was issued.
Italian sailors had a rack of these on their boats in Egypt a couple years back when I was there. crazy to see those old smgs with modern mg3s mounted on the deck for protecting
*protection
T
If kept in good repair, they wouldn't give up much to any 9mm submachine gun made today. They could use better sights, but if that was a real issue screwing a rail on the top isn't a big deal.
"Modern mg3" :D I totally get your point, but the basic mechanics and the look of the gun is from the same period as this smg.
Those were MAB 38/49. Same as the 38/42, but with a crossbolt safety.
If it ain’t broke…
My father served in Italy in WW2 so may well have come across the Beretta. He told me a story about one evening when the men were sleeping in a loft, one of his colleagues came in with his machine gun and on putting it down it went off....luckily no-one got killed! I presume it would have been a British gun.
Sounds like a Sten Gun moment
My dad was in Italy (173rd Field Artillery) in an independent field artillery unit. He said they got their hands on some of these late in the war when German or Italian Fascist units were surrendering. He said they shot very smooth with very little recoil. Even the "simplified" version looks to be machined beautifully.
I had one of these in Iraq, what an absolute joy it was to shoot, felt like a .22 rimfire, could even hold on target during full auto.
Wow, I heard there were M3 Grease Guns in Iraq, but these were there too? Are there any WW2 subguns that didn’t end up in Iraq lol
@@ottovonbearsmark8876 I was an armourer there and from memory had the following..mg42, Thompson smg, ppsh, hk mp5, stens, sterling smg, gustov .45 smg, m60, vz59, fnc 5.56, scorpion machine pistol, and even a 1915 British webley service revolver!..
@@taffbats wow. That sounds like heaven on earth.
I had a guy in my unit who was a SF armorer & he had tons of stories like this
@@Chino56751 if it aint broke dont fix it, the m3 was/is an excellent subgun
My personal favorite WWII SMG
best smg of ww2 were italians
Its in my top 5
Not joking, it's still in use by the navy, I used it during my service.
I’ve seen Carabiniere carry these.
@@iono5556 I fired with it 3 years ago. I don't think they replaced them with PM12S
@@iono5556 thank god, it was about time
@@iono5556 wait, Italians had FAL's?
I don't say it every time anymore. But it is impressive that you're still putting in the work and doing it up right, after all these years. One of the few youtube channels that I consistently watch every single one you produce.
Yup …. every single one 😊
You forgot to mention that these were a substitute standard in the Wehrmacht at the end of the war when mp40 production stopped and shifted over to the StG44.
Probably not for the wehrmacht, units like the ss and local affiliates.
@@01Bouwhuis No. it was officially used as a replacement after late 1944 in the Wehrmacht.
As an Italian is always nice to see videos likes these.
you can be proud of that.
@@kantenklaus9753 I am
It's an excellent design. This and the Owen gun are way up there for me.
Are you a lefty? (Both guns being essentially left handed)
The Owen!!! Or how an ugly design can work so well!?👏👏👏👍👍👍
Nothing wrong with the Owen excellent weapon for jungle use.
@@owen368 agreed
i really like beretta smgs, my personal all time favorite smg is the beretta p12, but the 38 is up there
There is nothing sexier than a blued Beretta firearm paired with wood furniture.
Ian: You'll notice it's not a tube
Me: TOOB
In Germany it is MP1, MP2 is Uzi, MP3 and MP4 are Walther submashinguns Long and short. MP5 is MP5, i don't know what is MP6, but MP7 is MP7.
The MP6 existed as a pistol-like barrel attachment for the OICW weapons program. It was basically an MP7 bottom-rail mounted on what became the XM8. The MP6 shares a similar history with the failed XM-25 (also a product of the OICW program) but at least it found itself useful as a standalone system as the MP7 unlike the XM-25 which never really got its chance to shine.
@@alvinoflys7504 Sehr interessant. Now I only need to understand why G41 was before G36 and what was after G4 (AR-10).
@@alexeysaphonov232 because the G41 is called that due to internal HK Designation that the Bundeswehr later adopted themselves. Same with their ammunition Dm63 tank rounds doesn't mean it's the 63rd ammunition variant they adopted it stands for the sixth variant (6) of kinetic penetrators (3) that they adopted.
Don't forget the MP 50 Madsen in few models in the new german army in 1954
I have a little WW2 German paratrooper figure that happens to be carrying this weapon and I have been intrigued by this machine gun ever since!
I got to shoot a 38A in Florida about 12 year ago (someone's father WW2 "trophy"). It was a pure joy to shoot!!!
The Lacquer may give a false impression..but for a "late war/simplified" gun that stock looks like a pretty nice piece of wood!
It's a great gun, by one of the greatest gun manufacturer of all time.
Beretta to me = Quality.
There is a reason why Beretta has been around for as long as they have.
@@lafeelabriel oldest arms company on the planet, started making arquebus (early muskets basically) barrels in the early 1500s. Beretta has supplied weapons for every major European war since 1650
@@jameskazd9951 496 years old and still going strong.
Look at the wood quality on a war simplified gun.
Looks like my old gun that you got to fire several years ago, Ian. It was a great gun.
The cartouche on the stock 4UT it is 4°Ufficio Tecnico dell’Esercito Tedesco - Heereswaffenamt (4 technical office of the german army ) that was in Gardone Val Trompia and Como, for the inspection and approval of all the guns for the Wehrmacht , and for the republican army RSI , this after 1943 . Ciao Riccardo
My dad had this SMG during his military service.
il MAB 38/49 o il 38/57?
@@JDaVaporPhonkGuy03 Non ricordo con esattezza, era molto simile se non identico a questo nel video.
@@matteograssi5898 so che nel dopo guerra giravano lo stesso i 38/42 però penso probabilmente uno dei 2 che ho citato più il primo che il secondo però magari dove ha prestato servizio può darsi che avevano quello
I did my conscript military service with the Italian Air Force as VAM (Vigilanza Aeronatica Militare) and I had that gun. The MAB, Moschetto Automatico Berretta, 9mm
As I recall towards the end of the war, some Italian paras were sent on some special ops and were offered to use any SMG the allies had in their inventory for it.
Which one did they use, I hear you ask? This one, right here.
I wonder if Beretta ever thought about giving it a pistol grip and a folding or collapsing stock - it would have been an ideal paratroop SMG with a collapsing stock.
@@AshleyPomeroy Probably. Ian did mention a "43" version which included a one after all.
Also, just got to say, I agree with them.
@@AshleyPomeroy can’t remember the exact name, but beretta did sell those after the war.
Beautiful and perfect functional gun, love it!
Oh Man, I was hoping they'd let you use the Navy Mk 22 M2 mount at the range....
This and the range video make up for it. Shooting that dual .50BMG would likely take the GDP of a small country. Full mag dump on both guns = a small mountain of brass.
Absolutely love the videos thank you for all the hard work
Beretta make great mags, my 65 dated BM59 mags are superbly crafted.
It remained in service with the Italian military & police forces well into the 70s, and it is still used in cerimonial pickets by the Italian Navy (along with the Lee-Enfield) and some other security forces.
gonna have to go back and look at that model 38 A video soon
I watch your videos when I go to bed so often my dog falls asleep when he hears your voice after a few minutes
I remember reading hard cover translations of the Don Camillo books back in high school, and in the illustrations if the little angel cartoon or little devil cartoon were armed, it was with Beretta M38s
Grandfather of the Beretta Cx4 9mm PCC.
The exception to guns getting simpler as the war went on was the Sten. As the possibility of German invasion subsided, we started adding more fancy front grips and Lee Enfield style sights to the things.
I might be shooting the 38A in a couple of weeks.
4UT on the stock is "4° Ufficio Tecnico"
First 5 minute gang
5 minutes and already 500+ views, Ian's community loves him so much
I have an Italian Partisan ("partigiano") holding a 38/42 tattoed on my right forearm.
I used one of these (mod 38/57) during my military service in Italy (Air Force, 1983)
11:48 "...it's really well setup for someone like me..." But Ian! There is NO ONE QUITE LIKE YOU!
I wish he specified how much this simplification sped up production and how much of a price difference there was compared to original 38s
Thank you for your videos.
When someone's business is hurting these guns exemplify what I suggest as a behavioural/procedural remedy: Do the job so it works and you fulfill your obligation. THEN, when/if you have time, add in that extra effort. DO NOT, spend all your time trying to make the first thing perfect only to fall behind and get mad at the customer rushing you (or you have no money) because you misused your time, and finally delivering only 70% of your promise (let alone that ideal).
These guns are a great example of getting 90% of the ideal for 50% of the effort. It's that last 10-15% that sales exponentially in time and money, the closer you try to get to perfection (and "wouldn't it be great if..."). This is why you don't have infinite colour options on your included TV remotes, or an AI in your deadbolt. Going above and beyond cannot be infinite, focus on one or two things your customer actually values (not what you value).
That stock is beautiful!
Yooo. Love the content.
Thanks again Ian
thats one of the most beautiful bolts ive seen on your channel
Good morning! Way back in 1974 when I was a Marine L/Cpl and part and a MAU, we did a force on force amphibious landing exercise on an island in the Med, against Italian troops ( we were told they were Marines). I remember they were carrying a weapon that appears very much like the Barretta 38/42 you are demonstrating. 2/8 (2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment) was carrying M16's while the rest of us had M14's, and those submachine guns looked really neat. Are they the same weapon, or something else?
Maybe it was a Beretta M12?
They were MAB 38/49. Similar to the 38/42, but with a crossbolt safety.
11:36 from here on it sounds more like an appeal to Mrs Weapons " but its soo good and its perfect for leftys like me and I promise ill tidy up all of the casings 😬" 🤣🔥
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
I wonder if Ian has his own reserved room at Morphy's and RIA
1:16 What's that with romaninans being in love with full length wooden stocks? They had those on Berettas, MP41s, Orita M1941
Just beautiful
Hi Ian, seeing the level of rough finish and the type of bluing, the trigger guard obtained with stamped sheet metal, and the barrel without milling would seem the 38/44 model instead.
Mmmmmm that wood grain
Look at that wooden furniture, dyam that thing look sooo good! Best smg fashion is Italian. They (mostly) come up with good looking hardware. 1.36's I'm soo hoping Ian says "will see ya on the range tomorrow..."
The Italian classic.
Thanks for the video.
Ah, the Italians...
They always make nice stuff (haha).
Seriously though; they do.
There are no holes in the stock for the trigger guard locking screws, maybe they were never installed as a cost saving measure rather than missing.
Pretty sure M38 locking screws are too short to go into the stock. I could be mistaken, as I don't personally own one, but I am pretty sure.
Also a possibility, couldn't tell from the video if there was threading in the plate itself.
I thought the same as you. It didn't look like the metal plate was threaded, and there were no holes in the stock. If they were simplifying the manualfacuring process for speed and lower cost, doing away with the set screws would seem logical.
This still looks positively decadent next to some of the budget-friendly WWII smgs. Definitely Italian.
That's the simplified design? It looks great!
This is my favorite subgun
i love the design the wooden grip area and stock just . . . idk. the gun looks funky but i love it. sights eh but other than that i like it lol
A version of this chambered in .38super would've been a good weapon for American law enforcement in the post war years.
Did the Beratta model 5 maintain the wartime simplification or did it get back some of the prewar refinement?
How interchangeable are the parts between its different revisions?
I saw these being used by Italian Naval pers. as late as 2001.
Those were MAB 38/49. Same as the 38/42, but with a cross bolt safety.
I'm curious. I'm quite ignorant to firearms. I'm never fired one but I am very interested but all my knowledge is theoretical. When looking at this firearm would it be a good idea to move the trigger up to behind the magazine, add a pistol grip and shorten the stock? What impact would this have on handling? Would one downside be caused by having the bolt move between one hand and the shoulder, under the cheek rather than between the two hand gripping the gun? Also would shortening the gun, meaning there's less weight in front, effect handling in a negative way?
Nice weapon.
Italian Army World War 2 submachinegun for sale. Never fired, only dropped once.
Why unfortunate that it was lacquered? It looks beautiful
Lowers the collectible value as it is not in original condition.
Otherwise, yes, I agree, a good looking finish.
Because someone took away originality to make it look shinier than it ever would have been...and probably also lost original parts (i.e. the set screws) in the process.
Jesus if you people think I'm unaware that making changes to a vintage gun lowers the value that's mind blowing. But who cares. It's not like they went to the extent of the people who butcher and sporterize service rifles. They made the gun look a little more glossy and it looks great to see this gun shine. It's not like they replaced the stock or the iron sights or chopped the barrel. Putting a lacquered finish on the stock will only preserve the life of it before it needs replaced lmfao.
Most sporterized rifles were very inexpensive to buy. This Beretta is worth what $20k-30k right now and is a much rarer gun to find
I wonder why they designed it to eject from the left?
Beretta designs serviceable weapons and works the bugs out. Five hundred years of private ownership gives them a longer view and the ability to weather wars much better than the American Firearms makers that have shareholders to answer to. Beretta understands what it takes to make a weapon, a weapons system, to be on the winning and losing side of wars
Bankruptcy seems to be the normal course of business in the USA.
I still argue that this is the best submachine gun of the second world war
Would love to shoot one
Ian has done so: he had a ball.
@@balham456 oh I know lol looks like he had fun
I thought I could read ‘UT’ on the stock with the number 44 beneath it. Arsenal and year of manufacture?
4UT means Quarto Ufficio Tecnico (Fourth Technical Office), an Italian approval office, working in Northern Italy after the Armistice.
4 kilos! More than 8 pounds. One pound less than a FN FAL!! Thats a heavy sub!!!
Adds to why it is a pleasure to shoot both re recoil and holding on target on full auto as commented on?
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq Of course. Thats why I prefer guns made of steel than "plastic"
.45 ACP and 9mm SMGs are usually quite heavy. The MAB 38/42 is actually lighter than the M3 Grease Gun and only slightly heavier than the Sten.
Nice rifle
Nice bit of furniture there🪑
hi, Ian !!!
good video on awesome smg pb 38/42 modified simplified and improved ... !!!
bye bye
😉
lose the comp thread the muzzle for suppressors and linear comps. modified sks sight keep the flip leaves.
walnut stock with brass carbine buttplate and trigger guard. lots of 30rd mags.
Guiseppe in Warsaw?
Almost looks like a brand new gun.
That receiver looks suspiciously CETMEesqe
Either Mario would use this or me when I was 7
'CS' ...Tjechia Slowakija (Böhmen und Mahren).
The shine on the stock kinda gives it a lipstick on a pig vibe. I like it, I think.
Beginning of video: "TOOOOOB!"
-10:00 : "Not toob."
No surprise the West German Border Guard had these before the MP5
is this the moschetto from.... uhhh medal of honor allied assault: breakthrough.... yeah i just looked it up... and saw that it was a berretta modello 38
That is called "war finish".
Did these SMGs have drum magazines?
No, never had.
The box magazine were excellent even in the 40-rounds variant, none really wanted a bigger one.
@@ulissedazante5748 Thank you.
👍😊 see you tomorrow and I like to shinny stock looks good.
Guys what's the cheapest 9mm machine gun that I could get that's not a mac?
The STEN ,, but trust me you dont want a STEN.. CHEERS!!
@@luisantolafrancis519 🤣 true, I dont
There is the Stemple takedown gun. One cost about $11,000 “brand new”
He did a video on it a few months back. They make them in 9 mm and 45 ACP with drum mags
How about safety features? You don’t know how many times I’ve heard Italian boomers complaining about stories of mab-38s supposedly going off bumping on the floor on the truck. They kept using these things for conscript training well into the 90s (as well as 7,62 Nato Beretta Garands, Garand thumb is a known meme among non-gun enthusiast Italian boomer)
It was common to all the first generation SMGs. Bumping the stock, the bolt retreats enough to pick a round from the magazine, but not enough to engage the sear.
The crossbolt safety of the 38/49 prevented that, but it had to be engaged to work.
Funny. Just played Call of Duty 2 Big Red One on ps2. This gun was in it👌
Such a good game!
Super good in BFV too. Nobody uses but it's one of the better SMGs.
@@imadequate3376 pretty underrated on BF5
CoD2 Big Red One was a really good game
Mitico MAB cal. 9 corto!!!!!
Veramente è calibro 9M38, che è una versione potenziata del 9mm Parabellum.
@@neutronalchemist3241 non dovrebbe essere una carica leggermente più bassa del 9 para?
Lo avevo nella VAM in dotazione ed era pure scritto 9mm.....1979/80 probabile che nel video fosse altro calibro?!!!! Parliamo del periodo bellico!!!!!
@@albertobonifazzi6298 no la matrice della munizione è la stessa cambiava il numero di polvere all interno per la 9x19 del MAB ai tuoi tempi tranquillamente la stessa 9x19 di oggi il 9 del MAB non è il 9 corto il 9 corto è quello della Beretta 34 e altre versioni del dopo guerra di qui adesso non mi vengono il nome
👍
It looks like the Finnish KP-31
italian and american guns are the best
The brazilian police special unit used that untill late 80s
EDIT: I think