Hello Simon, I have over 35 yrs in high performance wheel & tire technology inside the industry. On your video (at 2:14), you mention "THE MAIN FORCES SLOWING YOU DOWN ARE ROLLING RESISTANCE AND AERODYNAMIC DRAG". Unfortunately, you forgot on more key factor that slows you down and that is wheel Oscillation, meaning wheel rotational balance. Remember Newton's 1st Law... A mass that is put in motion will continue in motion unless its interrupted by an outside force (ie Aerodynamics), or an oscillation (ie wheel balance). Anyways, I know a bit or two about setting up racing wheels. Funny how in your report and or comments there's not one mention about "ROTATIONAL BALANCE" which is an essential part of obtaining the absolute maximum performance from any high-performance wheel, especially on heavier deep Aero wheels (I'll explain later below). I also do not like how a wheel weight is judged by its overall weight which includes the hub and everything on it ie rotor, free-hub body etc., when in fact the weight that is of great importance is the outer perimeter of the wheel, ie rim, tire, air-valve, nipples, and spokes. For all you know you have a super lightweight outer perimeter, but it has a heavy hub, rotor, brass nipples, steel free-body, spokes, or vice versa. CLIMBING WHEELS: thing is clear, the outer rotating perimeter of climbing wheels need to be as light as possible, and rotational balance is not as important, but it does help. GO FAST DEEP AERO WHEELS: Here controlled outer perimeter weight is your friend and "Rotational Balance" is extremely critical, as an un-balanced heavy wheel will be very detrimental to speed and overall performance. A., When using deep wheels on a fast flat course like KONA Hawaii, it's all about mimicking a set of heavy perfectly balanced fly wheels, where once they are up to speed, they are hard to slow down but easy to maintain its high speed. Here you want to use a set of heavier high-performance tires and regular tubes, which should add about 200 ~ 300 grams of more weight. The idea is to have good aerodynamics, to slip thru the air to make good use of the smooth and powerful flowing wheel inertia. Sincerely Dan Sotelo
@@danielsotelo3942 there's no advantage to adding weight just to add weight. Heavy tires and tubes don't improve aerodynamics and do not increase speed because of inertia, so there's no advantage but you get the disadvantage of added weight
QUESTION: @@nk-dw2hm @Daniel Sotelo there's no advantage to adding weight just to add weight. Heavy tires and tubes don't improve aerodynamics and do not increase speed because of inertia, so there's no advantage but you get the disadvantage of added weight ANSWER: "I never said adding weight improves Aerodynamics, but if you add weight to a wheel and bike with good aerodynamics it will be very easy to maintain high speed cadence because of the heavy rotating wheel inertia, like on a flat course like KONA Hawaii... IE if you ever been to a science museum and hand spun a heavy fly wheel, you will find it is very difficult to slow down or stop because of the momentum/inertia. But it's easy to keep up that high speed with very little effort". NOTE: when adding weight to wheels via heavy tubes and or tires, it is essential to ROTATIONALLY BALANCE THE WHEELS, otherwise you'll end up with wheels that oscillate creating power forces like sledgehammers swinging off your axles and dramatically slow you down as it causes "interrupted inertia". EXAMPLE: My customer built an ultralight weight 11.6 lbs bike. He quickly found out that he had to pedal as hard and as fast as he could just to maintain some kind of speed "going downhill"! Why? Because his super Lt/Wt wheels carried very little inertia. But when it came to going up hills, he described as running buck naked full speed up hills. OTHER EXAMPLE: I maintain a few TT bikes for a known woman professional triathlete. She is short and uses 650c wheels which by nature are very Lt/Wt. Four years ago she switched her old ZIPP carbon/aluminum wheels to a much lighter (o/a 850g) full carbon ZIPP wheelset just before going to race the IRONMAN in Kona. I told her it is going to be very hard to maintain your speed, especially if its windy..I tried to explain but she was convinced that Lt/Wt is better cause that's what her friends told her... So in a last-minute Hail Marry, I advised her to take her old wheels just in case (which I always had them perfectly balanced). Sure enough she called me from Hawaii a day or two later complaining that something was wrong with her bike because it rode so slow while practicing the on the course... I asked her if she brought her old ZIPP wheels? She said yes, and argued with me for some time and eventually agreed to take it to a shop to install her old wheels... GUESS WHAT!!! It not only went fast again but she topped her old record. BOTTOM LINE: So yes, there is a difference between using Lt/Wt & heavy wheels if prepared correctly for the competition course they are going to be ridden on. Sincerely Dan
@@nk-dw2hm Dear NK I wrote you a very detailed reason why wheel weight is so important to performance and going fast being different weights for climbing, flat or road which is a mix of climbing and descending. Also why rotational wheel balancing wheels is essential. I hit reply and it vanished... I'll try again later.
@nk-dw2hm you must understand how wheel rotation works. Something light weight, like paper, catches wind very well, doesn't it? But if you get a sheet of steel in the same size, it doesn't pick up as easy, does it? It's all in momentum. Same reason why deeper wheels feel more sluggish is the same reason they are fast: they HOLD speed well. It's simple. This is why lots of riders who have the Zipp 454s don't like them for the flats: they are too light for an aero wheel. They are decent climbing wheels though, and are still aerodynamic to have an advantage on descents. So is it aero? Yes. But the problem is that an aero wheel that is too light isn't ideal on a flat course because it can't hold speed the way a heavy aero wheel can. Momentum. Its a massive factor.
Lighter wheels are faster when accelerating. Against gravity on a hill, but also at stop signs, roundabouts, sharp corners, traffic lights etc. if you’re riding in a velodrome, or on long unbroken country roads then sure aero is better. However, if you use your bike for all sorts of urban rides; to commute, city group rides, possibly even crit racing and so on (I.e. most of us), a light weight wheel will be more fun, more of the time.
⬆️ Unless you’re riding long constant efforts, like you’ve pointed out, I’ll take the lighter “medium” aero wheel set. They often seem to forget this metric. 🤷♂️
This video is clear proof why weight matters. In race situations, the light wheels are so close in aero performance and any gain is totally negated by being in a pack. Uphill, the weight advantage is clear and where you make the largest gains in time or energy savings.
As a pro mechanic this info is what I've found out in my own tests, with my own riders. It's also what I discuss with my riders & paying customers. This is real world info, for real conditions & scenarios. Though the shallower of the two wheels here, is a semi aero/mid depth wheel that many pros use regularly. There's shallower, less aero, lighter wheels available, better suited to this test & which will give greater differences. For the majority of non racing riders, think also about comfort & instability in windy conditions. The deeper the rim, the less comfort & a more rigid wheel in general. The shallower the rim, the opposite, though rigidity not compromised too much that poses a problem. It's more that deep rims are ultimately more rigid items due to their depth, construction & mass. In the real world of these non racers, the ultimate speed differences in each make no difference & so go with what you like & what you feel thinks suits you & your riding type & terrain. Remember though, there's nothing wrong with the conventional non aero rim of upto 20mm or so, they've been used in all sport & racing environments over many many years & I still get asked to build such. Oh a very lightweight shallow rim built on to a quality pr of lightweight hubs will out perform all others on climbs. Tubular on such, even more so. Excellent vlog, especially compared to others I've watched on YT ..just the comfort issue left out. I forgive you :-)
interresting mate! atm im running SLR2 62mm front and rear on my giant propel. but i am considering buying a 62mm front and 80mm rear from dt swiss 1100 arc dicut db for a really good price! would you do this swap? or would you think it is a stupid idea for a road bike with theese mm on the wheels? in living in a country with not a lot of hills, mostly flat and some smaller hills
@@William19979it's not necessarily stupid. I would say hey, if you do mostly flat stuff, you might go for it. 80 is a bit deep, but if that's how deep you want to go, go for it. Just remember your bike WILL ride different. Main things to consider: wind. Wind will feel stronger, so if you have lots of wind there, maybe not the right choice. Second: do you do a lot of racing? Deeper wheels are definitely faster on the flats too, as long as they aren't too light. The Zipp 454s are a good example of too light. They climb well but are an aero wheel. An aero wheel that doesn't perform well in the exact conditions you want an aero wheel for. So I don't know how much speed increase you are looking for, or if you race, but racing, will it be noticeable? Perhaps in a sprint, it will feel more sluggish. But a wheel like that you want more for a TT. Where the aero benefits/momentum outweigh the sluggish feeling of the wheel. I hope this gives you some things to think about
My Tarmac came with Roval 60 deep wheels, but the terror from side winds is a real issue , north UK, and had a diffident 'creak' when at the top of the cassette uphills, so replaced with Hunt carbon 35's for a much better all round experience.
That's mean you gain around 0.66 kmh of average speed in flat at 40 kmh, it's a huge difference about 10/15 watts!Which power and distance you did for go almost at 40 kmh?
I have the Hunt shallower wheels because I have recently moved to a pretty windy area, and I like tackling the steeper climbs if and when I get the energy! A really helpful video for me as I was tempted to get deeper rims. Many thanks 👍
yep thats kinda the sweet spot - I use 35mm lightweight wheels for long uphill routes and 65/80mm in the flats. overall I prefer the lightweight wheels because they are more agile and accelerate faster. only use the aero wheels If I do time trials or on flat recovery rides
It should be noted that your lightweight wheels were also aero wheels, just not as aero as the other set. That means the lightweight wheels were getting an aero and weight advantage. It'd be interesting to see how a 42-45-ish mm set of wheels fared. They'd likely have been much closer to the deeper wheels on the track and likewise much closer to the 32mm wheels on the climb. IMHO, 42-45-ish mm seems the best depth for an all-around wheelset, at least in my mind. I guess that's why I've got a set of 45mm deep rims being laced to my hubs right now.
I went with the "Jack of all trades and master of none" approach. Bontrager aeolus pro3V carbon wheel that is 37mm deep D-shaped arrow wheel with 25mm wide tire bed and 108 rapid engagement hubs. I run a 32mm GP5000 tubeless for climbing and riding fast in the flats in peak riding season. The swap over to Maxxis Rambler 38mm tubeless with a Victoria insert to hammer a little gravel in the off-season. I have been very happy!
As a former employee of Trek at the time you wrote this comment, I am glad you like them! Those wheels are certainly a good weight and you are certainly using them for what they are made for. I love those hubs to pieces. I have the Pro 3 disc wheels and wish they came with the other hubs. I have thought about rebuilding them to those but if I go through all that I will just buy Chris King hubs. Anyways! Have a great ride!
It shouldn't be a surprised that in a test designed to assess speed on a constant level, aero wins, or that in a test with only a steep climb weight wins. For average riders, we'll never do only one. Lower weight feels nice, and encourages an all out effort - if you can't afford deep carbon wheels, lightweight shallow alloy (with good hubs) will feel much better. Aerodynamics generally help with the average and peak speeds - in my experience and overall faster ride.
A lot of people getting dropped on the flats? I mean unless your keen on the solo breakaway in your group ride or race, is there really an advantage to an aero wheel in the draft? Aero does look better, I'll have to agree there, but beyond that I would say most riders would benefit more from the 'help' on the climbs that a lightweight wheel would provide.
You should try a real world test with stop signs, not so perfect road surface, and some traffic. Who gets to ride in a velodrome or a deserted mountain road?
You did a good video. Keep those coming. I have an aero set and love the way they ride and look. I live in dubai so mostly flat. I also bought a light weight shallow rims for those very windy days as it is impossible to control the bike on windy desert days. They will help me as well when I go to the mountains
i choose shallow for total body comfort, but i do more endurance riding. most ppl just get deep section cuz they look cool. i like the way a sub 14lb bike feels too, light and zippy, and i enjoy climbing more than time trialing or riding long boring flats.
Great test. I own the Hunt 54 aerodynamicist and was debating to get the Hunt 32 (shown in the video) for climbing. I only do big climbing rides at Fondo events so I'll stick with my 54mm.
Interesting video. Could we say that on a ride with 40km flat and 4km climb aero wheels make you faster? Saving 40 seconds on the flat section while losing 16 on the climbing section, still a difference of 24 seconds.
Hey good vid, but I wish for once a product or tester would do their test based on a preselected 1) gear & RPM 2) Seated position (including hills)...not a predetermined power output which is meaningless if the gear & rpm are unknown.
Would it have killed you to give the power and speed you did the tests at? For instance, a second per kilometre at 200 watts is way better than a second per kilometre at 300 watts. Without this info there is no context for your test. It's seems an incredible oversight.
Did the climb have some downhill sections? Most days out on the bike have downs and ups, which is where aero might make up some time. Crosswinds scare the hell out of me so I’ve never wanted deep section wheels though.
Having been fond of criteriums and ridden hundreds, I can definitively say light wheels--at the rim and tire--make a huge difference in acceleration. #Anecdata
Feel like I'd probably find it a lot easier to make up 4 seconds every 4km on the flat than I would 4 seconds every 1km on a climb... Maybe I'm naive, but to a non-racer seems to make way more sense to make the hardest sections of a ride a fair bit easier than it does to make the the easy bits almost imperceptibly faster
Where I live in Eastern NC it is very very flat here, but we also have winds at or around 10-15 mph coming from any direction. I would think a big aero wheel would be a nightmare to control.
i was going backwards and forwards on wheel depth and went with the Parcours ronde, as they seemed the best everyday wheel for rough roads and stability but have enough in the way of speed for me and my little legs think there around 40 r and 36 front (i think). plus my bike isn't the least bit aero being a mason definition (2) so ultimate rim depth would only help to a point.
As someone who bought a pair of hunt 36 areos and am waiting for them this was great to see! I think it could be said that the areo wheels will also benefit you on the downhill somewhat unless im mistaken. Even more glad I went with an areo set after seeing this.
Inertia is one of the key thing that's overlooked between those two type of rims. I've tested myself, over longer km especially in stop n go scenario, shallow rims wins. They're much lighter on the initial pedal and faster to achieve the momentum. After a 100km+ where your legs aren't as fit as you started, you'll definitely feel the difference.
On flats, inertia of the heavier rim (which is what I think you're getting at) does not play a significant role, unless you're constantly accelerating and decelerating (like during a crit race, which a few posters brought up here), which was not the case in the tests here. You will only register a difference while getting up to speed, but not afterwards, under steady effort. Weight of the heavier rim/wheel affects acceleration, but then its' rotational inertia helps to maintain the cruising speed once you're there. Of course, the weight will play a role on a climb, as the tests have shown here.
Inertia has almost no impact on human cycling performance. mainly because speeds and acceleration rates are too low. You can make a copy of this spreadsheet to compare different scenarios, currently it is set up for some hypothetical mountain bike wheel scenarios: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N2aS3E0K4wrTa5jKqed7etJY_0XEyA6-23kUFR3KNmI/edit#gid=0
Found Hambini's test data chart that shows power absorbed of various wheelsets at 30km/h really stopped me from wringing my hands over whether I should upgrade my wheels and what wheelset I should go for. I currently have a rim brake bike with an older set of Mavic Cosmic Elites 30mm deep and alloy, a bit heavy but at 30 km/h absorb 190w. One of the mid depth wheels I considered was the Light Bicycle 46mm, it absorbs 188w, the Hyper 50 is the best performing mid depth wheel, it absorbs 182w. He suggests to consider things like margin of error, differences in bikes, shoe overlap, etc will effect these numbers and that a noticeable difference isn't really going to be detected by the rider until it is 2.5 significant figures or greater, for example 175w vs 190w. While I haven't tested it myself, tests like this seem to agree with that, I likely wouldn't notice an 8w difference between my wheels and the Hyper 50 similar to how the two wheels in this video only led to a 1 second difference despite almost doubling the depth.
Yes, it shows how little difference wheels actually make. Having said that I run best of both worlds, so far as this test is concerned. Using 50mm Hypers that weigh 1350g. You will notice a difference over a stock wheel weighing say 1750g, but it’s more a case of ‘I don’t feel quite as as tired nearing the top of a regular climb’ rather than ‘wow, I shot up that climb’. Moving from a Conti 4 Season with butyl tube to a Conti gp5000 with latex tube makes a bigger difference in my opinion. Carbon wheels look and sound good though. 😏
Heads up you meant standard deviations where you said significant figures. Sig figs relate to the precision of measurements, standard deviation is related to how much spread there is in the measurements after they're taken
Aero wins for me. Even doing rides that have a fair bit of climbing, you'll still be coming down the other side where the aero advantage will make up the difference (especially as you'll be at a faster speed than on the flat). Combine that with the wider profile (so wider tyres) and they're more comfortable as well. I save my thinner/smaller 32mm wheels for rides that are pure climbing or when the wind gets >24mph and crosswind gusts make the deep section set a bit too twitchy.
@@JwallzMTB I would expect to, but as he says in the video, he only gained 4s per km on the climb using the lighter wheels. So I don't know when you're getting 4 minutes from.
@bikeradar - with the new Hunt gravel carbon race 25 and 40s being the same weight which would you go for for the, enthusiastic but not very good, heavier gravel racer?
This is not the question people need answered - the comparison needed is: Full aero bike (frame & wheels) -v- Lightweight bike with aero wheels People want to know if it’s worth buying aero wheels for the climbing bike they already have or invest in a full aero bike. (Because who the hell puts lightweight wheels on an aero frame??!!)
I live in the lake district area so lots of rolling hilly flat and big climbs after years of riding my sweet spot are 50 mm aero wheels fast on flats pretty responsive on long climbs if your wheels are in the 1450 g per set or lower at 50 mm I personally think it’s my goldelocks zone
I run a 48mm aero wheel set. Great all around except for descending where they tend to “sail” above 45k per hour. For this reason I prefer shallower rims for mountain rides.
A size inbetween.... 40mm for example. And if there were a choice... i'd prefer a dimpled surface to further reduce the drag coefficient and improve the look.
Next step: 28mm tires and throw in 45 or 50mm rims. I’d venture for those of us who do rides that are combo of flats, rolling hills, and climbs, a 45-50mm deep rim is probably the best bet.
What I would rather want to know in regards to real world situations, is how the ride feel stacks up when you have to stop and start up again multiple times, as we have traffic, and trafficlights everywhere (especially in the netherlands). I'm pretty sure the lighter wheels start rolling fast way quicker and with less power output.
I have recently switched from Campagnolo Bullet 50mm rims to Campagnolo Shamal 27/30. My decision was driven by handling in side winds/gusts. I live in a mountainous area of Thailand and was recently blown onto the wrong side of the road during a long 80Km/hr descent. I ordered my new wheels at the first opportunity after this experience.
This really only tells us why we want wheels in the 1200-1400 gram range. Much lighter and the wheel has trouble holding momentum on the flats. Much heavier and it doesn't climb well. Yet you also want wheels anywhere from 35- 55 at the deepest. And fitting wheels that deep in that weight is hard to find. But going with a mid depth like 38-46 isn't bad. That's the optimal range if you can get in the under 1500 gram range, which isn't terribly hard to do today.
I got 55s on my aero bike looks brilliant. I must say my bike did, look rather stupid when I first brought it, had shallow section wheels. What bar and stem is that? Looks cool
1/2 second per lap seems like noise. Unconscious bias might make that difference? In other words you try just a tiny bit harder when using the Aero wheels because you feel they should be faster
With every climb comes a descent, so how much do the aero wheels gain there when you are going properly fast? If it's more than they loose on the climb, then they win for flat and undulating.
Potentially, yes - and that's why aero wheels tend to be faster overall on rolling courses, but if you're racing hill climbs or are just chasing KOM's (where the descents arguably don't matter), then a lightweight wheelset might make sense. I would always choose aero wheels, personally, but it depends on what you want to optimise for. Of course, you can also pick an in-between option for 'all-round' performance. Cheers for watching! Simon
I’m not a professional so my riding is for enjoyment rather than pure speed. As such the not mentioned benefits of lightweight wheels: faster acceleration = more responsive = more flattering and fun to ride far outweigh the pure speed benefit of deeper wheels. Should say that I’m lucky enough to have several sets of wheels and bikes so ‘horses for courses’ is the right answer…
As traffic varies that would not be a repeatable and comparable environment and therefore the results would be useless. Including some stops might make sense but here again it is difficult for humans to put a constant power out when starting from a stand still which makes comparison again difficult. And a 60km loop for sure will include changing wind and weather conditions ... so while your scenario would be useful it is basically impossible to make a reliable test.
Lightweight wheelset for me. 1sec per km isn't much. 100sec for 100km is less than 2min over a 4 hour ride, which isn't significant. I'd rather get up the climb faster because that's where the bragging rights are.
The difference on the flats was less than half a km/h at almost 40km/h.. Thats not much. At lower speeds it would be less. And if you're riding in a group, the difference would be even less relevent.
It really doesn’t man I just bought hyper 33s and I sccelerate much faster and I’m a group pace line it doesn’t matter but when that climb comes and I attack nobody on deep wheels we’re able to stay on and they are stronger than I am. 35-38mm is perfect for any ride with any sort of climb thrown in
there are actually deep wheels that are extremely light weight too. you can get 42mm wheel set with a weight of 1300g which is aero enough and really light.
Can anyone tell me if you can use a tube in a situation where your tire is sliced and won’t seal? With the HUNT 32 Aero UD. With of course the tubeless tire. Just curious what you would do in that situation if you cant put a tube in.
At what power setting? You probably make 2x the power of a duffer like me, so aero gains could be non-existent at regular people speeds? In the real world and non-competition, it literally doesn't matter but our purchases are emotional not rational. Aero looks cooler and makes you feel better :)
As an average Joe, go in between. You can get the light weight carbon spiked wheelset in 44 mm deep section wheels. Best of both worlds. Not too bad on the handling either.
Everesting riders would remove screws if they can. Saying weight doesn’t make a difference is succumbing to marketing hype and strange actions from the bike industry
My opinion differs from these comments. I dont care about time savings over the 2 kilometer riding a consistent time. What you're trying to do with light weight wheels is to prevent yourself from burning the match. A lightweight set of wheels can turn that 30% switch back in a match-burning, or non-match-burning event. And that's what matters in the real world of bike riding. What matters in bike riding is acceleration. That is why you dont see power lifters and body builders racing bicycles.
I find that my wide 35 mm deep aerodynamic-ish wheels come at 1550 grams (heavier rider, went for 120 kg approved wheels). Don’t notice any difference on climbes. Lets be honest, noone is riding 40 km all climbing…
This test is an absolute failure. You are doing a single run up a mountain without even measuring the power output and the explain that you are "confident" about your results because they confirm your bias is ridicolous. Also, no the test is not more relevant for an average user because the tested speeds are lower than in a wind tunnel. It is just not significant.
Hi Sebastian, I I did measure power output for all runs (I used a Stages LR Ultegra R8000 power meter for all runs and did my best to ride as consistently as possible) - I gave the results in terms of average speed differences as I felt that would be more relevant to many people. If I'd sid how many watts a certain wheelset saved, then for many people that might not mean much. Appreciate everyone will have different opinions, but thanks for your feedback. Simon
Why does every single aero/lightweight test have the rider riding up the hill? Start at the top of the hill, no pedaling and just coast down the hill. The force exerted by gravity is absolutely constant. Easy test and very repeatable. For the flat test just use an e-bike, dial up the power you want.
As a hobbyist cyclist, If i can only have 1 set of wheels would i rather be slightly faster on the flat, or make a climb slightly more easy? I'd defiantly want to make the climb less hard. Who cares if you a tiny bit faster on the flat.
Don't forget, though, if you're riding slightly easier on the flat you might have more energy for the climbs - it can work both ways. Cheers for watching! Simon
The fastest wheel set for me, on the roads I ride are the set on my bike. I only have one compatible set at the mo, but they do have GP5000’s with latex tubes. Rolling resistance is probably more significant than aero or lightweight. My next set will be both aero and lighter though! I need a balance between the two!
I have been using nukeproof horizon wheelset and i have used 2 different tire. I have used vittoria mezcal tubeless and maxxis ikon tan wall tubeless. The maxxis ikon tubeless rolls faster. But i love both tires. I buy all my tires.
This assumes that you are not drafting on the flat parts. My point is that if you are drafting, then the aero wheels will not give you much aero gain, whereas lighter wheels will always be advantageous on steep hills.
14 percent isnt much, i really start to drop my mates who are bigger with heavier bikes at 15 percent plus with ease. at around 10 percent they dont struggle as much and can keep up
Are those generic white sport socks, or have Nike jumped on the band wagon and sold you the same socks but branded "Cycling" and charged you 10x the price?
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Aero or lightweight wheelset? Tell us your choice in the comments! 🪶💨👇
Hello Simon, I have over 35 yrs in high performance wheel & tire technology inside the industry. On your video (at 2:14), you mention "THE MAIN FORCES SLOWING YOU DOWN ARE ROLLING RESISTANCE AND AERODYNAMIC DRAG". Unfortunately, you forgot on more key factor that slows you down and that is wheel Oscillation, meaning wheel rotational balance.
Remember Newton's 1st Law... A mass that is put in motion will continue in motion unless its interrupted by an outside force (ie Aerodynamics), or an oscillation (ie wheel balance).
Anyways, I know a bit or two about setting up racing wheels. Funny how in your report and or comments there's not one mention about "ROTATIONAL BALANCE" which is an essential part of obtaining the absolute maximum performance from any high-performance wheel, especially on heavier deep Aero wheels (I'll explain later below).
I also do not like how a wheel weight is judged by its overall weight which includes the hub and everything on it ie rotor, free-hub body etc., when in fact the weight that is of great importance is the outer perimeter of the wheel, ie rim, tire, air-valve, nipples, and spokes. For all you know you have a super lightweight outer perimeter, but it has a heavy hub, rotor, brass nipples, steel free-body, spokes, or vice versa.
CLIMBING WHEELS: thing is clear, the outer rotating perimeter of climbing wheels need to be as light as possible, and rotational balance is not as important, but it does help.
GO FAST DEEP AERO WHEELS: Here controlled outer perimeter weight is your friend and "Rotational Balance" is extremely critical, as an un-balanced heavy wheel will be very detrimental to speed and overall performance.
A., When using deep wheels on a fast flat course like KONA Hawaii, it's all about mimicking a set of heavy perfectly balanced fly wheels, where once they are up to speed, they are hard to slow down but easy to maintain its high speed. Here you want to use a set of heavier high-performance tires and regular tubes, which should add about 200 ~ 300 grams of more weight. The idea is to have good aerodynamics, to slip thru the air to make good use of the smooth and powerful flowing wheel inertia.
Sincerely Dan Sotelo
@@danielsotelo3942 there's no advantage to adding weight just to add weight. Heavy tires and tubes don't improve aerodynamics and do not increase speed because of inertia, so there's no advantage but you get the disadvantage of added weight
QUESTION: @@nk-dw2hm @Daniel Sotelo there's no advantage to adding weight just to add weight. Heavy tires and tubes don't improve aerodynamics and do not increase speed because of inertia, so there's no advantage but you get the disadvantage of added weight ANSWER: "I never said adding weight improves Aerodynamics, but if you add weight to a wheel and bike with good aerodynamics it will be very easy to maintain high speed cadence because of the heavy rotating wheel inertia, like on a flat course like KONA Hawaii... IE if you ever been to a science museum and hand spun a heavy fly wheel, you will find it is very difficult to slow down or stop because of the momentum/inertia. But it's easy to keep up that high speed with very little effort". NOTE: when adding weight to wheels via heavy tubes and or tires, it is essential to ROTATIONALLY BALANCE THE WHEELS, otherwise you'll end up with wheels that oscillate creating power forces like sledgehammers swinging off your axles and dramatically slow you down as it causes "interrupted inertia".
EXAMPLE: My customer built an ultralight weight 11.6 lbs bike. He quickly found out that he had to pedal as hard and as fast as he could just to maintain some kind of speed "going downhill"! Why? Because his super Lt/Wt wheels carried very little inertia. But when it came to going up hills, he described as running buck naked full speed up hills.
OTHER EXAMPLE: I maintain a few TT bikes for a known woman professional triathlete. She is short and uses 650c wheels which by nature are very Lt/Wt. Four years ago she switched her old ZIPP carbon/aluminum wheels to a much lighter (o/a 850g) full carbon ZIPP wheelset just before going to race the IRONMAN in Kona. I told her it is going to be very hard to maintain your speed, especially if its windy..I tried to explain but she was convinced that Lt/Wt is better cause that's what her friends told her... So in a last-minute Hail Marry, I advised her to take her old wheels just in case (which I always had them perfectly balanced). Sure enough she called me from Hawaii a day or two later complaining that something was wrong with her bike because it rode so slow while practicing the on the course... I asked her if she brought her old ZIPP wheels? She said yes, and argued with me for some time and eventually agreed to take it to a shop to install her old wheels... GUESS WHAT!!! It not only went fast again but she topped her old record.
BOTTOM LINE: So yes, there is a difference between using Lt/Wt & heavy wheels if prepared correctly for the competition course they are going to be ridden on.
Sincerely Dan
@@nk-dw2hm Dear NK I wrote you a very detailed reason why wheel weight is so important to performance and going fast being different weights for climbing, flat or road which is a mix of climbing and descending. Also why rotational wheel balancing wheels is essential. I hit reply and it vanished... I'll try again later.
@nk-dw2hm you must understand how wheel rotation works. Something light weight, like paper, catches wind very well, doesn't it? But if you get a sheet of steel in the same size, it doesn't pick up as easy, does it? It's all in momentum. Same reason why deeper wheels feel more sluggish is the same reason they are fast: they HOLD speed well. It's simple. This is why lots of riders who have the Zipp 454s don't like them for the flats: they are too light for an aero wheel. They are decent climbing wheels though, and are still aerodynamic to have an advantage on descents. So is it aero? Yes. But the problem is that an aero wheel that is too light isn't ideal on a flat course because it can't hold speed the way a heavy aero wheel can. Momentum. Its a massive factor.
Aero wheels look cooler, so that's ultimately the reason why I'll choose them.
Swooshy whooshy noises = 1-zillion watts faster
yep, same here, my are 47mm so not super deep.... theres a balance, dont want to look too try hard
Nothing boosts watts like thinking you look cool - FACT! 🙂
I think lightweight wheels look better on lightweight frames...and aero wheels on aero frames.
This is the correct answer
Lighter wheels are faster when accelerating. Against gravity on a hill, but also at stop signs, roundabouts, sharp corners, traffic lights etc. if you’re riding in a velodrome, or on long unbroken country roads then sure aero is better. However, if you use your bike for all sorts of urban rides; to commute, city group rides, possibly even crit racing and so on (I.e. most of us), a light weight wheel will be more fun, more of the time.
⬆️ Unless you’re riding long constant efforts, like you’ve pointed out, I’ll take the lighter “medium” aero wheel set. They often seem to forget this metric. 🤷♂️
I think 40-45mm is the sweet spot, aero enough while still light enough.
@@blinzi69 I have 45 mm but they are not so light - over 1600 g...
This video is clear proof why weight matters. In race situations, the light wheels are so close in aero performance and any gain is totally negated by being in a pack. Uphill, the weight advantage is clear and where you make the largest gains in time or energy savings.
As a pro mechanic this info is what I've found out in my own tests, with my own riders. It's also what I discuss with my riders & paying customers.
This is real world info, for real conditions & scenarios. Though the shallower of the two wheels here, is a semi aero/mid depth wheel that many pros use regularly. There's shallower, less aero, lighter wheels available, better suited to this test & which will give greater differences.
For the majority of non racing riders, think also about comfort & instability in windy conditions.
The deeper the rim, the less comfort & a more rigid wheel in general.
The shallower the rim, the opposite, though rigidity not compromised too much that poses a problem. It's more that deep rims are ultimately more rigid items due to their depth, construction & mass.
In the real world of these non racers, the ultimate speed differences in each make no difference & so go with what you like & what you feel thinks suits you & your riding type & terrain. Remember though, there's nothing wrong with the conventional non aero rim of upto 20mm or so, they've been used in all sport & racing environments over many many years & I still get asked to build such.
Oh a very lightweight shallow rim built on to a quality pr of lightweight hubs will out perform all others on climbs. Tubular on such, even more so.
Excellent vlog, especially compared to others I've watched on YT ..just the comfort issue left out. I forgive you :-)
interresting mate! atm im running SLR2 62mm front and rear on my giant propel. but i am considering buying a 62mm front and 80mm rear from dt swiss 1100 arc dicut db for a really good price! would you do this swap? or would you think it is a stupid idea for a road bike with theese mm on the wheels? in living in a country with not a lot of hills, mostly flat and some smaller hills
@@William19979it's not necessarily stupid. I would say hey, if you do mostly flat stuff, you might go for it. 80 is a bit deep, but if that's how deep you want to go, go for it. Just remember your bike WILL ride different. Main things to consider: wind. Wind will feel stronger, so if you have lots of wind there, maybe not the right choice. Second: do you do a lot of racing? Deeper wheels are definitely faster on the flats too, as long as they aren't too light. The Zipp 454s are a good example of too light. They climb well but are an aero wheel. An aero wheel that doesn't perform well in the exact conditions you want an aero wheel for. So I don't know how much speed increase you are looking for, or if you race, but racing, will it be noticeable? Perhaps in a sprint, it will feel more sluggish. But a wheel like that you want more for a TT. Where the aero benefits/momentum outweigh the sluggish feeling of the wheel. I hope this gives you some things to think about
My Tarmac came with Roval 60 deep wheels, but the terror from side winds is a real issue , north UK, and had a diffident 'creak' when at the top of the cassette uphills, so replaced with Hunt carbon 35's for a much better all round experience.
That's mean you gain around 0.66 kmh of average speed in flat at 40 kmh, it's a huge difference about 10/15 watts!Which power and distance you did for go almost at 40 kmh?
I have the Hunt shallower wheels because I have recently moved to a pretty windy area, and I like tackling the steeper climbs if and when I get the energy! A really helpful video for me as I was tempted to get deeper rims. Many thanks 👍
I use 40mm carbon deep rims, look good, light and aero enough for me!
yep thats kinda the sweet spot - I use 35mm lightweight wheels for long uphill routes and 65/80mm in the flats. overall I prefer the lightweight wheels because they are more agile and accelerate faster. only use the aero wheels If I do time trials or on flat recovery rides
It should be noted that your lightweight wheels were also aero wheels, just not as aero as the other set. That means the lightweight wheels were getting an aero and weight advantage. It'd be interesting to see how a 42-45-ish mm set of wheels fared. They'd likely have been much closer to the deeper wheels on the track and likewise much closer to the 32mm wheels on the climb. IMHO, 42-45-ish mm seems the best depth for an all-around wheelset, at least in my mind. I guess that's why I've got a set of 45mm deep rims being laced to my hubs right now.
I used cadex 42 , very good
I went with the "Jack of all trades and master of none" approach. Bontrager aeolus pro3V carbon wheel that is 37mm deep D-shaped arrow wheel with 25mm wide tire bed and 108 rapid engagement hubs. I run a 32mm GP5000 tubeless for climbing and riding fast in the flats in peak riding season. The swap over to Maxxis Rambler 38mm tubeless with a Victoria insert to hammer a little gravel in the off-season. I have been very happy!
I'm interested in 37mm deep D-shaped objects as well, quite the perfect size amirite
As a former employee of Trek at the time you wrote this comment, I am glad you like them! Those wheels are certainly a good weight and you are certainly using them for what they are made for. I love those hubs to pieces. I have the Pro 3 disc wheels and wish they came with the other hubs. I have thought about rebuilding them to those but if I go through all that I will just buy Chris King hubs. Anyways! Have a great ride!
It shouldn't be a surprised that in a test designed to assess speed on a constant level, aero wins, or that in a test with only a steep climb weight wins.
For average riders, we'll never do only one.
Lower weight feels nice, and encourages an all out effort - if you can't afford deep carbon wheels, lightweight shallow alloy (with good hubs) will feel much better.
Aerodynamics generally help with the average and peak speeds - in my experience and overall faster ride.
A lot of people getting dropped on the flats? I mean unless your keen on the solo breakaway in your group ride or race, is there really an advantage to an aero wheel in the draft? Aero does look better, I'll have to agree there, but beyond that I would say most riders would benefit more from the 'help' on the climbs that a lightweight wheel would provide.
You should try a real world test with stop signs, not so perfect road surface, and some traffic. Who gets to ride in a velodrome or a deserted mountain road?
Almost 40km/hr is an impressive level of "normal" riding. 😳 I'll take those climbing wheels, please.
You did a good video. Keep those coming. I have an aero set and love the way they ride and look. I live in dubai so mostly flat. I also bought a light weight shallow rims for those very windy days as it is impossible to control the bike on windy desert days. They will help me as well when I go to the mountains
Good vid. Couple of points missing. Momentum, acceleration mainly.
A velodrome at almost 40 km/h is not a real world test for 99% of people.
i choose shallow for total body comfort, but i do more endurance riding. most ppl just get deep section cuz they look cool. i like the way a sub 14lb bike feels too, light and zippy, and i enjoy climbing more than time trialing or riding long boring flats.
Great test. I own the Hunt 54 aerodynamicist and was debating to get the Hunt 32 (shown in the video) for climbing. I only do big climbing rides at Fondo events so I'll stick with my 54mm.
I live in Alps In France so the lightweigh weels 😅
Thanks you for this very good video !!
Interesting video. Could we say that on a ride with 40km flat and 4km climb aero wheels make you faster? Saving 40 seconds on the flat section while losing 16 on the climbing section, still a difference of 24 seconds.
Nice Job Simon!
Hey good vid, but I wish for once a product or tester would do their test based on a preselected 1) gear & RPM 2) Seated position (including hills)...not a predetermined power output which is meaningless if the gear & rpm are unknown.
Would it have killed you to give the power and speed you did the tests at? For instance, a second per kilometre at 200 watts is way better than a second per kilometre at 300 watts. Without this info there is no context for your test. It's seems an incredible oversight.
Did the climb have some downhill sections? Most days out on the bike have downs and ups, which is where aero might make up some time. Crosswinds scare the hell out of me so I’ve never wanted deep section wheels though.
Having been fond of criteriums and ridden hundreds, I can definitively say light wheels--at the rim and tire--make a huge difference in acceleration. #Anecdata
It would be interesting to find out which aerowheel would make more sense, if you only have one fancy set. Aero in the front or in the back?
Did you measure the downhill? Free wheeling each descent world surely suit the aero wheels too
Feel like I'd probably find it a lot easier to make up 4 seconds every 4km on the flat than I would 4 seconds every 1km on a climb... Maybe I'm naive, but to a non-racer seems to make way more sense to make the hardest sections of a ride a fair bit easier than it does to make the the easy bits almost imperceptibly faster
Where I live in Eastern NC it is very very flat here, but we also have winds at or around 10-15 mph coming from any direction. I would think a big aero wheel would be a nightmare to control.
Great review
At what power did you test the wheels?
Lightweight wheels are almost 2 % faster uphill while decreasing the system weight only by about 0,5 %. How do you explain that? Measurement error?
i was going backwards and forwards on wheel depth and went with the Parcours ronde, as they seemed the best everyday wheel for rough roads and stability but have enough in the way of speed for me and my little legs think there around 40 r and 36 front (i think). plus my bike isn't the least bit aero being a mason definition (2) so ultimate rim depth would only help to a point.
As someone who bought a pair of hunt 36 areos and am waiting for them this was great to see! I think it could be said that the areo wheels will also benefit you on the downhill somewhat unless im mistaken. Even more glad I went with an areo set after seeing this.
Inertia is one of the key thing that's overlooked between those two type of rims. I've tested myself, over longer km especially in stop n go scenario, shallow rims wins. They're much lighter on the initial pedal and faster to achieve the momentum. After a 100km+ where your legs aren't as fit as you started, you'll definitely feel the difference.
On flats, inertia of the heavier rim (which is what I think you're getting at) does not play a significant role, unless you're constantly accelerating and decelerating (like during a crit race, which a few posters brought up here), which was not the case in the tests here. You will only register a difference while getting up to speed, but not afterwards, under steady effort. Weight of the heavier rim/wheel affects acceleration, but then its' rotational inertia helps to maintain the cruising speed once you're there. Of course, the weight will play a role on a climb, as the tests have shown here.
Inertia has almost no impact on human cycling performance. mainly because speeds and acceleration rates are too low. You can make a copy of this spreadsheet to compare different scenarios, currently it is set up for some hypothetical mountain bike wheel scenarios: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N2aS3E0K4wrTa5jKqed7etJY_0XEyA6-23kUFR3KNmI/edit#gid=0
@@arekc2787 even under a ~1,200 watt sprint the inertia penalty of an aero wheel is like 1 watt, and you gain way more than that from the aero.
Found Hambini's test data chart that shows power absorbed of various wheelsets at 30km/h really stopped me from wringing my hands over whether I should upgrade my wheels and what wheelset I should go for. I currently have a rim brake bike with an older set of Mavic Cosmic Elites 30mm deep and alloy, a bit heavy but at 30 km/h absorb 190w. One of the mid depth wheels I considered was the Light Bicycle 46mm, it absorbs 188w, the Hyper 50 is the best performing mid depth wheel, it absorbs 182w. He suggests to consider things like margin of error, differences in bikes, shoe overlap, etc will effect these numbers and that a noticeable difference isn't really going to be detected by the rider until it is 2.5 significant figures or greater, for example 175w vs 190w. While I haven't tested it myself, tests like this seem to agree with that, I likely wouldn't notice an 8w difference between my wheels and the Hyper 50 similar to how the two wheels in this video only led to a 1 second difference despite almost doubling the depth.
Yes, it shows how little difference wheels actually make. Having said that I run best of both worlds, so far as this test is concerned. Using 50mm Hypers that weigh 1350g.
You will notice a difference over a stock wheel weighing say 1750g, but it’s more a case of ‘I don’t feel quite as as tired nearing the top of a regular climb’ rather than ‘wow, I shot up that climb’.
Moving from a Conti 4 Season with butyl tube to a Conti gp5000 with latex tube makes a bigger difference in my opinion.
Carbon wheels look and sound good though. 😏
Heads up you meant standard deviations where you said significant figures. Sig figs relate to the precision of measurements, standard deviation is related to how much spread there is in the measurements after they're taken
What about testing an aero wheel on the front where it has the most benefit and a light weight wheel on the rear?
Good video bud, off subject.. what is that stem your using please? Its a struggle for decent OS stems!
Hi Kyle, it's the Giant Contact SLR Flux Carbon Stem winstanleysbikes.co.uk/giant-contact-slr-flux-carbon-stem
Please let us know what avarage wattage and speed you were putting. Saving in seconds/km are hard to calculate
Surely 36 up front and a 50-60 rear is the new ideal. It’s worth a test and helps with crosswind action.
The opposite, to get the maximum aero gain (deeper up front)
Aero wins for me. Even doing rides that have a fair bit of climbing, you'll still be coming down the other side where the aero advantage will make up the difference (especially as you'll be at a faster speed than on the flat). Combine that with the wider profile (so wider tyres) and they're more comfortable as well. I save my thinner/smaller 32mm wheels for rides that are pure climbing or when the wind gets >24mph and crosswind gusts make the deep section set a bit too twitchy.
id love to see ya gain a 4 min gap on a descent just because of wheels
@@JwallzMTB I would expect to, but as he says in the video, he only gained 4s per km on the climb using the lighter wheels. So I don't know when you're getting 4 minutes from.
@@deanwaller1029 i mean a race at 100 miles and 8k.. 50mm aint gonna do anything. thats 10 min just based off wheel choice.
what wattage were you holding for each test? It's hard to tell if the results are relevant to me without that information.
@bikeradar - with the new Hunt gravel carbon race 25 and 40s being the same weight which would you go for for the, enthusiastic but not very good, heavier gravel racer?
This is not the question people need answered - the comparison needed is:
Full aero bike (frame & wheels) -v- Lightweight bike with aero wheels
People want to know if it’s worth buying aero wheels for the climbing bike they already have or invest in a full aero bike.
(Because who the hell puts lightweight wheels on an aero frame??!!)
This! I have a Cervelo R3, which is a lightweight all-around bike. Do I get lightweight wheels or aero wheels?
I live in the lake district area so lots of rolling hilly flat and big climbs after years of riding my sweet spot are 50 mm aero wheels fast on flats pretty responsive on long climbs if your wheels are in the 1450 g per set or lower at 50 mm I personally think it’s my goldelocks zone
I run a 48mm aero wheel set. Great all around except for descending where they tend to “sail” above 45k per hour. For this reason I prefer shallower rims for mountain rides.
A size inbetween.... 40mm for example.
And if there were a choice... i'd prefer a dimpled surface to further reduce the drag coefficient and improve the look.
Next step: 28mm tires and throw in 45 or 50mm rims. I’d venture for those of us who do rides that are combo of flats, rolling hills, and climbs, a 45-50mm deep rim is probably the best bet.
What I would rather want to know in regards to real world situations, is how the ride feel stacks up when you have to stop and start up again multiple times, as we have traffic, and trafficlights everywhere (especially in the netherlands). I'm pretty sure the lighter wheels start rolling fast way quicker and with less power output.
I have recently switched from Campagnolo Bullet 50mm rims to Campagnolo Shamal 27/30.
My decision was driven by handling in side winds/gusts.
I live in a mountainous area of Thailand and was recently blown onto the wrong side of the road during a long 80Km/hr descent.
I ordered my new wheels at the first opportunity after this experience.
This really only tells us why we want wheels in the 1200-1400 gram range. Much lighter and the wheel has trouble holding momentum on the flats. Much heavier and it doesn't climb well. Yet you also want wheels anywhere from 35- 55 at the deepest. And fitting wheels that deep in that weight is hard to find. But going with a mid depth like 38-46 isn't bad. That's the optimal range if you can get in the under 1500 gram range, which isn't terribly hard to do today.
Got a 35 in my Scott Addict love it 👍👍
I got 55s on my aero bike looks brilliant. I must say my bike did, look rather stupid when I first brought it, had shallow section wheels.
What bar and stem is that? Looks cool
I use hunt 40’s. Climbs great, pretty light, and aero enough for me.
1/2 second per lap seems like noise. Unconscious bias might make that difference? In other words you try just a tiny bit harder when using the Aero wheels because you feel they should be faster
Excellent video!!!
I live in Colorado. Not much flats in my area.
For me, not a racer, i ride/have many hills in front of my door and i love to ride cross/ gravel a solid climbing wheelset makes more sense ....
With every climb comes a descent, so how much do the aero wheels gain there when you are going properly fast? If it's more than they loose on the climb, then they win for flat and undulating.
Potentially, yes - and that's why aero wheels tend to be faster overall on rolling courses, but if you're racing hill climbs or are just chasing KOM's (where the descents arguably don't matter), then a lightweight wheelset might make sense. I would always choose aero wheels, personally, but it depends on what you want to optimise for. Of course, you can also pick an in-between option for 'all-round' performance. Cheers for watching! Simon
I’m not a professional so my riding is for enjoyment rather than pure speed. As such the not mentioned benefits of lightweight wheels: faster acceleration = more responsive = more flattering and fun to ride far outweigh the pure speed benefit of deeper wheels. Should say that I’m lucky enough to have several sets of wheels and bikes so ‘horses for courses’ is the right answer…
Nice comparison
Please make that BikeRadar kit for sale!
Thanks for your comment, we'd love to make kit available to you and is a conversation we're having at BikeRadar HQ!
@@bikeradar That's great news!
@@bikeradar Sorry to bug you on this but I'm looking to get new kit. Did BR decide to release this kit for sale?
What about lightweight aero wheels compared with lightweight less aero wheels.
I would like to see this test done over a 60km loop that includes moderate traffic. Something the avg rider has to deal with
As traffic varies that would not be a repeatable and comparable environment and therefore the results would be useless. Including some stops might make sense but here again it is difficult for humans to put a constant power out when starting from a stand still which makes comparison again difficult. And a 60km loop for sure will include changing wind and weather conditions ... so while your scenario would be useful it is basically impossible to make a reliable test.
Lightweight wheelset for me.
1sec per km isn't much. 100sec for 100km is less than 2min over a 4 hour ride, which isn't significant. I'd rather get up the climb faster because that's where the bragging rights are.
The difference on the flats was less than half a km/h at almost 40km/h.. Thats not much. At lower speeds it would be less. And if you're riding in a group, the difference would be even less relevent.
It really doesn’t man I just bought hyper 33s and I sccelerate much faster and I’m a group pace line it doesn’t matter but when that climb comes and I attack nobody on deep wheels we’re able to stay on and they are stronger than I am. 35-38mm is perfect for any ride with any sort of climb thrown in
Should have added one more option to this experiment using climbing front wheel and Aero rear.
there are actually deep wheels that are extremely light weight too. you can get 42mm wheel set with a weight of 1300g which is aero enough and really light.
What's the name
@@kimwarner6050 cadex 42mm for example - 1327g - for under 2500$
@@kimwarner6050 Zip 353 NSW are 1255g and are 40 to 45mm deep
Can anyone tell me if you can use a tube in a situation where your tire is sliced and won’t seal? With the HUNT 32 Aero UD. With of course the tubeless tire. Just curious what you would do in that situation if you cant put a tube in.
Here as seen I can build a wheelset of 950g weight but unsure if should over 50mm 1300g wheelset
At what power setting? You probably make 2x the power of a duffer like me, so aero gains could be non-existent at regular people speeds? In the real world and non-competition, it literally doesn't matter but our purchases are emotional not rational. Aero looks cooler and makes you feel better :)
As an average Joe, go in between. You can get the light weight carbon spiked wheelset in 44 mm deep section wheels. Best of both worlds. Not too bad on the handling either.
you could just do these tests with an ebike for consistency
Everesting riders would remove screws if they can. Saying weight doesn’t make a difference is succumbing to marketing hype and strange actions from the bike industry
this video is basically an ad for hunt wheels
Mix match, aero is the back; shallow in the front. Don't want that wind affecting my steering.
Could you tell me what is your stem/handlebar combo? TCR owner 😃
It's a Giant Contact SLR Flux carbon stem and a Pro Vibe Aero Alloy Pursuit handlebar (120mm stem + 360mm bar). Cheers! Simon
My opinion differs from these comments. I dont care about time savings over the 2 kilometer riding a consistent time. What you're trying to do with light weight wheels is to prevent yourself from burning the match. A lightweight set of wheels can turn that 30% switch back in a match-burning, or non-match-burning event. And that's what matters in the real world of bike riding.
What matters in bike riding is acceleration. That is why you dont see power lifters and body builders racing bicycles.
One run on each wheelset, and you are confident in the results?
I find that my wide 35 mm deep aerodynamic-ish wheels come at 1550 grams (heavier rider, went for 120 kg approved wheels). Don’t notice any difference on climbes. Lets be honest, noone is riding 40 km all climbing…
I run the bontrager aeolus pro 37 with 25 mil wide rim. Running 25 mil tubed tires. A good all around rimset.
received your email concerning item I won.
Standing on the climb canceled any benefit the deeper wheels had when the hill was not as steep.
Interesting but it would have even been better to compare with aluminium climbing wheels like the Zondas.
So what would be the optimal weight to depth ratio? I just want 1 wheelset to rule them all.
I have Hunt 44mm Aero at just 1435g a pair. Look lovely and roll well too.
This test is an absolute failure. You are doing a single run up a mountain without even measuring the power output and the explain that you are "confident" about your results because they confirm your bias is ridicolous. Also, no the test is not more relevant for an average user because the tested speeds are lower than in a wind tunnel. It is just not significant.
Hi Sebastian, I I did measure power output for all runs (I used a Stages LR Ultegra R8000 power meter for all runs and did my best to ride as consistently as possible) - I gave the results in terms of average speed differences as I felt that would be more relevant to many people. If I'd sid how many watts a certain wheelset saved, then for many people that might not mean much. Appreciate everyone will have different opinions, but thanks for your feedback. Simon
Why does every single aero/lightweight test have the rider riding up the hill? Start at the top of the hill, no pedaling and just coast down the hill. The force exerted by gravity is absolutely constant. Easy test and very repeatable. For the flat test just use an e-bike, dial up the power you want.
Thanks the difference is so small, I don’t need new wheels anymore!
As a hobbyist cyclist, If i can only have 1 set of wheels would i rather be slightly faster on the flat, or make a climb slightly more easy? I'd defiantly want to make the climb less hard. Who cares if you a tiny bit faster on the flat.
Don't forget, though, if you're riding slightly easier on the flat you might have more energy for the climbs - it can work both ways. Cheers for watching! Simon
The fastest wheel set for me, on the roads I ride are the set on my bike. I only have one compatible set at the mo, but they do have GP5000’s with latex tubes. Rolling resistance is probably more significant than aero or lightweight. My next set will be both aero and lighter though! I need a balance between the two!
I have been using nukeproof horizon wheelset and i have used 2 different tire. I have used vittoria mezcal tubeless and maxxis ikon tan wall tubeless. The maxxis ikon tubeless rolls faster. But i love both tires. I buy all my tires.
Can I ask the psi you used for each test?
80psi on both sets of wheels (which had the same tyres, both set up tubeless). Cheers for watching, Simon
@@bikeradar Thanks Simon
This assumes that you are not drafting on the flat parts. My point is that if you are drafting, then the aero wheels will not give you much aero gain, whereas lighter wheels will always be advantageous on steep hills.
Sorry but in the climbing test, if you put 306w for both wheels, with the watts and duration you give, the Aero wheels are faster by a few sec!
Based on the article related to this video
14 percent isnt much, i really start to drop my mates who are bigger with heavier bikes at 15 percent plus with ease. at around 10 percent they dont struggle as much and can keep up
Are those generic white sport socks, or have Nike jumped on the band wagon and sold you the same socks but branded "Cycling" and charged you 10x the price?
They're just generic Nike sport socks - as you say, much cheaper than 'cycling' socks ;-) Simon
So basically, get the most aero wheels possible at a certain weight (for example up to 1350 grams).
I still choose lightweight wheels on flat since I live in windy area.
Also aero is not aero. Wheels seem to perform quite differently.
given how slow I go I went with lighter wheels. Other reason was cost. £171 v £360 was a no brainer.