My Dad had diabetes and wanted a new Tacoma 4x4 as his last vehicle. I found what he wanted. He drove it, said it would take it and left a deposit. They gave him a Buyer's Order with the fees and total due yet. Two days later we go to pick it up, and the Closer starts with the sales pitch my Dad looked at me and I said no no let him finish. After he was finished explaining everything from the extended warranty to the scotch guard I said "We Will take it ALL" the smile on his face was ear to ear. I reached into my Dad's chest pocket and pulled out the bank check, as long as it all fits on this check. You knew what we were doing. Then they said well we already put on pin stripes and locking lug nuts, I said well you better start pulling them because we aren't paying for them. Those were freebies!!!
yep. We dont need middle men to buy a car. We can do it online or these companies themselves should run the dealers and not just have their name attached to it.
Staying nice and quiet! They aren't there for us. They're there to look like they're there for us. If they were real, ppl like Kena Khahn would be the standard, not the exception.
The Republicans in the Senate were holding up the confirmations of new FTC Commissioners. The prior commissioners were more 'business friendly'. There are 5 FTC Commissioners, and they serve 7-year terms.
Dealerships can not be eliminated under current Federal Law. And States have laws about dealerships also. Not sure how you think Americans will buy cars without a dealership model. Or are you going to buy your next car on TEMU?
I just bought, this month, a new '24 Toyota Corolla. When the finance "thief" met with me and tried to sell me a bunch of extras I declined all but a tire and wheel road hazard warranty for $6.50 a month. When I reviewed the actual finance contract, a week later at home, I found that they charged me $2200 for that item! What con men, what thieves!! Needless to say I demanded that we re-write the deal, which was done. I dropped the tire warranty too.
Yep same thing Toyota said $6 or $7 for tire warranty it wound up being $15 they bunched it in with other things so you couldn’t see the actual price. tire protection is a waste 😮!I had one tire replaced and they say oh here’s your free tire ? Free? I paid $500 for that tire over 3 year lease !simple don’t take any extras at the dealer !they’re liars and crooks . When I bought the lease out at the end of 3 years for my 2018 rav 4 I was dealing directly with Toyota not the dealer so no extras were charged . They should Do away with all dealerships and do like I did deal directly with the manufacturer no extras no bs no Haggling same price for everyone!
I leased a new Honda and they changed the miles I was allowed to drive it per year that we had agreed upon. They didnt give me a paper contract but instead put it on a flash drive and gave me that. When I got home and reviewed it, it was changed from 12 K a year to 10K miles. I was livid and went back the next day and demanded they change it to 12K which they did but i wondered how many other people they cheated who didnt look at the contract on the flash drive.
@@PlymouthCuda340 Glad you caught them. Dealers count on the fact that most people are too lazy or too dumb to check the terms and dollars on their purchase.
Excellent idea all franchised dealerships are Stealerships. They are the dinosaurs of the auto industry impending sales with extremely high markups that are unjustified! I think the U.S. government's FTC agency should have full control and always crack down on dealerships that push unjustified fees and price markups! The more government control on getting rid off unfair pricing the better! The more harsher the regulations become the better it will be for the average consumer! 👍
lol! The only problem with that is convincing the manufacturer to pay fair labor for warranty service. As it stands Independent shops have ZERO interest in doing warranty work for manufacturers.
At least with the dealership you can take advantage of their need to sell an aged unit. Manufacturers are just going to sell it for all the money every time
All these junk fees are perfectly fine as long as they are advertised in the overall price of the car. If they want to put add-ons and accessories to the vehicle this needs to be disclosed online before the consumer gets there
I bought a VW and the dealer snuck in the extended warranty after I said I didn’t want it. Only reason I caught it was the loan was declined the next day because I was pre-approved for a set amount. I went back to the dealer and made them remove it. The scowls I received from them was gratifying. Dealers are all shady. Some just have better smiles than others.
Everyone is trying to screw the little guy. Got a $4000 loan for a $6000 truck from a credit union to build credit and buy a house. They slipped gap insurance in after I said no. First payment was $400 high because of the gap. They wanted me to pay $24,000 of gap over the 5 year loan on a $6000 dollar truck with a $4000 note that 10 years later still would be worth more than the note on day 1!!!! The real kick in the dingaling was that after I got the gap removed then paid off the loan right away and closed my account my credit dropped 30 points which was the entire reason for getting the loan… I had more than enough money in the credit union when I signed the paperwork!
In other words, the FTC alleges this dealership was doing what dealerships do. Dealership still wonder why nobody likes them. It's amazing how some salesman really are clueless about that. I don't know if racial discrimination actually plays a part in this; I think it's based more on how much they think they can get away with each individual person.
They don’t care because you have little choice,all dealerships do the same things. Nitrogen has no moisture in it and doesn’t expand and contract with a change in temperature. The cost is minimal so refuse paying for it. It’s just another gouge from the dealers,and how do you tell if they actually use it?
dead give away is I went into a dealer for the price they has listed online. looked good, test drove the truck they after test drive sitting down they say lets run some numbers. I said I seen the listed price on line. comes back with 3600 with add ons. I said im good thank for the test drive.
Same here. I went to look at a Honda civic listed for 26k. Once he showed the car he said btw heres the out the door price. Comes back with 31k almost 4k of add ons. I shook his hand and said I’m not interested.
Dealerships hate me. I have read everything ever since I was taken advantage of when I was much younger. I bought "lifetime tires" for $599. The stipulations were they every oil change, every scheduled maintenance, had to be performed by the dealership. I never got my tires replaced under the "lifetime tires" coverage I bought at Ford. Lifetime tires coverage was offered by BMW and Kia on later purchases. You can bet I read three fine prints. Kia tried to weasel out a few times but ended up replacing my tires every time. BMW tried to hand me some bullshit about one set a year, but it was not in their contract. Those run-flats are expensive, and they can't be patched. Eventually, they honored the contract and were probably surprised I knew their contract so well. I always ask for printed copies to read of everything, a private area where I can read everything, and I bring a highlighter. I nix everything I won't pay or shouldn't have to pay, like dealer prep (reconditioning fees for used), and if they don't like it, I take a walk. I never go on without cash in hand or a pre-approved draft from my credit union with GAP already purchased. The cost of GAP at my credit union is $499. I have never seen a dealership charge less than $900 for GAP. I have had dealerships tell me that GAP is mandatory, which is a lie. I don't need dent protection, fabric protection, nitrogen, ceramic coating, clear bras, pre-paid oil changes, or anything else. I live in a rural area with dirt and gravel roads for a few miles before I get to my house. Tire and wheel protection is a bargain for me if the contract is correct. My tires and wheels get damaged all the time. Even $899 is a good deal given that my tires are $299 each, and the factory wheels are almost $1000 each. I'll buy it if the terms are well worded, but they'll (the dealership) is going to lose money. I'm ok with the confrontation I always get the first time I make a claim. I've never lost at the service department getting them to honor their contract.
@@bmacaulay18 Why trade in, Private value is higher. If you say tire kickers, if you list the car on the market with a fair market value price it will sell instantly. People try to list private high to recoup their depreciating assets then cry wolf when it doesn't sell and they get trolls.
@@abrahammc2125 if as a dealer you can’t discount the car because fixed prices you can over allow on the trade (discount by giving too much for the trade). The other advantage is the sales taxes are based on the trade difference in many states. That’s how the “one price” dealers got around the no discount. As to why not sell it yourself, there are many reasons why people don’t want to do it that way. More than anything else it’s convenience.
good information ... i've walked out dealers too many to count but the most memorable was in 1990 when the first ever Miatas were coming to shore... my wife had to have one .. they played every game in the book. They hadn't arrived so you had to reserve yours and WAIT. They'd then sell yours to another customer for more money and your wait got longer. Also, they added premiums over MSRP ( $2,000 - $5,000 - real money back then). Brutal - We basically walked out of 6 dealers that weekend ( my wife close to tears ) because I wanted MSRP and a sales order with the VIN of specific car ( they had a list with the cars that were set to depart Japan with vin numbers). Long story, one dealer called me back a day later - fun little car we drove all over the place.
Worked at a Dodge dealership years ago, and the price would be different for the same vehicle depending on how the customer is dressed. Dealers have screwed consumers for YEARS & YEARS & YEARS
I remember when the add-ons were just the TT&L. Cars were advertised at the price they were being sold for + TT&L. I praise the honest dealers, the rest can rot in bankruptcy courts, with my hope that they do.
Thank you, great video and I fully stand behind you on this!!!!!!!!! It was less stressfull signing for my mortgage than it has been buying cars 😅over the years.
@@corvettemode1556 they still use Pontiac on their business license so that’s why it’s still relevant. There’s another dealer in town whose name is Sanderson Lincoln Mercury on their business license but they do business as Sanderson Lincoln
Most car dealerships are crooked. Big surprise. Please educate yourselves before you head to a dealership. I Thank this channel for its educational content
Great video. Well explained. I was so satisfied when I had hammered out a deal on my wife's Maverick and they said how about financing....I said give me the total and I'll have a bank draft in your hands tomorrow. By-by to the kick back from the finance company.
Remember 4 cars ago the dealer charged me for dealer add ons. ( like floor mats and nitrogen) Was told everyone pays it! So i did! The last three cars i said NO and they stood firm until I stand up to walk out! Then all of a sudden they drop the fees and I Keep the add ons!
Never had nitrogen but always get floor mats and upgrade to the Weathertech ones which my dealer in past had better price and everything beat Weathertech. They as well as any or value added in my opinion
I went to a dealership, that advertised a Toyota Tacoma, for 18.500. Regular cab 4x4. When I got there, there were none. Sat me down with the finance manager. When she walked in. She ask me how she could help me? I told her, nothing. Walked out. I get a call from the salesperson, who said. When you coming by to get your truck. I told him I wasn’t coming by. He said, I guess you’re giving up your down payment. I said what down payment? He said, thanks a lot pal. Wow.
I just went to a major dealership with my friend to buy a car. They were so shady… they charged $199 for echo etching (vin on all windows, that wasn’t even there) I asked them to remove and they wouldn’t. Said law requirement, I would need to speak with their district manger, and sign a from stating I didn’t want it to provide to the DMV. I told them we would end the deal if they didn’t remove. They decided to give a registration reimbursement for the $199.
This is being held up in the fifth district which is the most pro business district in the country. Dealerships are HUGE donors to politicians nothing will be done or by the time it goes into effect it will be so watered down it will make no difference. I hope I am wrong I would love to be wrong but I don't think I am.
I was just negotiating a deal on a Sequoia in Utah. The vehicle was still in the rail yard and hadn’t been delivered to the dealership. The dealer added gap protection for $1050 and “paint protection” $495. I objected to both. I was told the paint protection was added by the dealer and couldn’t be removed. I stopped negotiating at that point and told them I’d deal with another dealer.
They'll pay a fine "without admitting any wrongdoing" and business continues as usual. Shadiness is the foundation upon which car dealerships are built.
They need to start increasing fines. If you want to pay without admitting wrongdoing, the fine has to be set at least 101% of your profit during the fraudulent period. If you want to pay a "normal" fine you have to admit wrongdoing and publish that admission in a local newspaper or other relevant outlet.
I managed a gas contract for an analytical laboratory. We used high purity nitrogen for instruments that used large amounts for a drying gas. The generator cost $15k with ~$2k per year in supplies. It supplied more than any car dealership would ever need. The biggest cost for nitrogen for a large dealership would be in labor to fill the tires.
This is crazy when you hear these things. Black White Hispanic, any color for that matter does it make a difference? Makes me sick we need somebody that can step in and really just shut them down. You do these things go to jail top to bottom no different than a scammer call center.
We are long past due to enforce dealerships to be honest with their pricing. I sold cars for 5 years and it made me sick to have to hawk these bs products to customers and have to tell them they don’t qualify for the online price for one reason or another. It’s s not 1979 anymore but dealers and owners are stuck in the past.
On our local talk radio here in Phoenix they had a story the other day about a dealer here Coulter Cadillac is pulling the same 💩 that you are talking about. WTF. It’s going on everywhere I guess. Thanks for the vid.
If it isn't on the factory window sticker it isn't from the factory. Dealers get add-on stickers they put to the right of the factory one that look like factory and say that's the deal.
@@pbshooter100 if you are talking about SET (Southeast Toyota) who controls GA,FL,AL,NC,SC anything added is on the factory window sticker. It’s just like any other factory window sticker. The extra BS stickers that dealers have made to look just like the factory sticker that is the fake stuff. Nitro $699, wheel locks $150, pinstripe $250, market adjustment $ upto whatever is all dealer.
@@bmacaulay18 Yes what you say is true but Toyota is unique in that there is a factory sticker plus the sticker with the added items from the distributor and finally additions from the dealer. For all the others you have the MFG sticker plus the dealer additions.
I sold Volvos and a new station wagon was deeply discounted. The management hid this unit from view. Customer test drove it before it was hidden. He ended with a demo afterward. Felt bad for the customer and revealed to him what was done. I didn't care as I was leaving for university studies. Heard he got the new wagon after complaining to Consumer Affairs
My last 3 new car purchases (2 Toyotas, 1 Chevy) were all done online dealing with the dealership’s internet sales dept. I never go to the dealership until I have the out-the-door price including all fees. No haggling or getting upset! I show up, pay the agreed price, including all fees, and have a pleasant experience!!
I remember when I went to get my 16 F250, they tried so hard on all these fees, I kept on questioning them and trapping them with their own words, got the dock fee, prep fee (same fee 2x) and a few others, just walked away with processing fee, tags, taxes, and price of the truck
A dealership that I ran the bodyshop for charged 500 dollars for undercoating that was not even put on. They sprayed just a little so the customer saw and was happy with. Twenty bucks of material and 15 minutes labor for 500. They charged 250 for 5 dollars of pinstripe and half an hour to put it on. Nitrogen is another big rip off. You get no benefit for using it. It costs literally a dollar or so for the gas and another half hour labor for 300 bucks. The list goes on and on. They are making a fortune ripping people off. Don't play their games. Tell them you don't want any ad ons. They may not even sell you one because of it.
Never paid a DOC fee in my life. I negotiate down where I want to be I say "deal", but I am not a DOC fee. They say "everyone pays a DOC fee". I say you can show you charged me a DOC fee on the Buyers Order, but you will drop the top line by the cost of the DOC FEE. Easy peasy...
Hey Brandon, when is your next interview with that Nissan GM? With all the recent news about Nissan losing 99% of the operating profit in the US, layoffs and calls for Nissan to reduce the amount of dealerships, it will be very insightful to get some insider perspective of these recent news surrounding Nissan and the automotive industry.
I had to stop it at 6:30. Your exactly right, and I know where your going, and your right! One more big one nobody ever talks about, and I think is a real crime... and I have to preface this by saying not exactly at this time, is bank loans! The banks have a minimum rate per score. Everything over that, the dealer keeps! If you qualify for a 3.0% loan, and the dealer gets you to sign for 5%, they can get the 2% back from the lender! I've seen it done! And what about the "hold back", that money the dealer gets from the manufacturer after the vehicle is sold? Yet they still charge "doc fees"? How about it's all covered by their profit!!
I bought my current car new about 12 years ago, so I haven't run into the electronic signature process yet. I plan to be buying a new car soon, but I have no intention on signing anything electronically. It is too big of a purchase to not read every word of what you are being asked to sign. Written words are legally enforceable, while shorter verbal 'explanations' of what the words say aren't legally enforceable. If need be, I plan to take the paperwork home to read it before I sign. If they don't like that then they can shorten the paperwork. Hopefully it will also discourage them from trying to sell me extra junk like an extended warranty. And I plan on taking photos of every page of any document that I sign - I wouldn't even trust them to make me a copy. I feel free to push back on this stuff more and more every year - especially for employers. Too many people take advantage of the fact that most people will sign whatever you put in front of them.
@@JasonEDragon They have to let you take the paperwork to review if you request it. If they don’t you can take action against them by reporting to the state.
Agreed. Never go tired or feel pressured, never give up/leave a car in trade first, never give up your keys, and... if they say that this deal is only good for today, then just say you will not be back tomorrow, say you're leaving, and leave. You will have voice mail messages before you get home.
Many years ago, I told the salesman i would only pay 15,000 for the car. When the paperwork came the car was 15000 and then they added doc fees. I walked..
The advertised price needs to be the drive away price, this is the law in Australia. The drive away price includes all add ons, delivery fees and registration.
I have always had an extremely hard time believing that new vehicle dealerships are coming up with these extraneous fees and add-ons unbeknownst to their respective manufacturers. Has it never occurred to anyone that these fees and add-ons are showing up on window stickers per instructions from the manufacturers themselves? It doesn't make any sense that new vehicle dealerships would risk a problem with their respective manufacturers in this regard. What does make sense is that these dealerships are just following instructions from manufacturers to price gouge customers with these fees and add-ons.
A looked at a Tundra at an AutoNation dealer in FL and took it for a test drive. After the test drive I asked the salesperson for the price, and he showed me a listing on his phone, which seemed to be a good price. Went back to talk numbers and it turns out he had “accidentally” shown me a listing from a different (but similar) truck, and, WOOOPS, *this* truck was actually more expensive. I called for the manager and told them they were both liars and walked out. I suppose that tactic works on some people?
The best experience I had with a dealership was Niello Acura in Northern California. Only thing I paid extra for was $300 gap insurance. Only reason I got it was because no money down. Took them longer to detail the car than buying it.
honestly we dont even need dealerships anymore. I think we should be allowed to buy direct and the dealerships shouldnt be a middle man where more money is added for no reason. Like they add no value at all anymore. They should handle everything in house and go online or ford chevy and so on should run the lots themselves so ther3e is no middleman.
EXCEPT: Where would you pick up the car then? Who will take care of registration, especially when new plates are involved? Who will do factory authorized service?
@@joewoodchuck3824 you could do it online or the manufacture just takes over the dealerships. They could also have authorized mechanics that take over the service and repair.
As a lawyer, I read legalese and I'm going to read every word. If you sign a document, the law assumes that you've read it and agree with whatever the terms specify.
that happened with window etching and Nitrogen, I told them I WILL NOT PAY for things I didn't ask for. they took the cost off the car, but left it on the invoice as those items.
When you're at a dealership, if you think your salesman is blowing smoke up your ass, take out your phone and check the internet. If the salesman says "we have to charge dock fees by law," take out your phone in front of him, and see for yourself.
What are the fees per detail. They are required by law in every state to handle tax and title fees which by definition are fees. My current state has to define each separately while my previous state rolled all taxes, tags, and transfer etc as a lump under document fees. Dealerships should just say OK and let you drive off to DMV or where ever you want with no tags and no proof and call the law to cover themselves.
@@gc1172 It'll depend on the state. I'm in California, I haven't sold cars in quite a while. It used to be the dealership could charge you up to $100 (IIRC) for the back-office staff processing the licensing and registration paperwork (on top of the state charges for both of those), but the $100 charge WAS NOT required. Anything else was discretionary and between you and the dealership, and I think that's where the problems occur that Brandon is talking about in this video; requiring you to buy an extended warranty, requiring nitrogen fill in the tires, adding 'paint protection insurance', etc.
just fyi addons don't exist in most of Europe, the official websites have a MSRP you have option packs or models all listed and the only thing you pay on top of that is a "delivery fee" which is understandable not only for the time spent to roughly inspect the car remove the transport protections check oil etc...but also because they have a few hours of administrative work in the end we pay a 600USD equivalent fee + msrp + customer chosen options nothing else, american fees and addons have zero reasons to exist
There are the mandatory monies, ie tax title license. Maybe even convenience fee, which I am told is legitimate fees from state. Other fees are revenue enhancers, ie nitrogen, car protection, plus; where may come out in process of negotiation process. Better negotiation v discrimination.
I have walked out on dealers that would not remove the fees. Thier loss not mine. I never need a car, I keep two. When one becomes too costly and not worth repair I will shop for a other but since have second car never a rush.
Man look. This is how you buy a car. I got this amount of money out the door. Would you like to sell it or not? It’s really that easy. I don’t understand why it’s more complicated than that. It’s how I have always bought cars. Even when you need a loan the math is so simple.
I just did a google search out of curiosity to see if new car dealerships in the 1960’s charged these junk fees on cars. That’s a flat NO. The dealers would offer add ons like air conditioning but hey, that’s legit. Wonder how it got to where we are now? After dinner the other night these a Dodge dealership next door and walking to the car, we glanced at one of the hundreds of unsold Hornets. Yep…$399 for nitrogen in the tires was only ONE of the ad ons. The Hornet MSRP is 51K and it’s been on their lot just shy of 9 months. So when and why did these extra fees become a thing. The article did say it was common for people to buy a new car every 2-3 years in the 60’s as opposed to now where I read the average age of a vehicle on the road is about 12 years.
There has long been massive racial, ethnic and gender (mainly with women) discrimination in motor vehicle sales. Yes the 'document fee' has to apply to all buyers to avoid discrimination charges but it is rampant in some many other ways including pricing, trade-in values, financing interest rates, 'dealer mandated and installed' accessories. Such discrimination has been documented by consumer groups but rarely acted on due to the bribery of our politicians. The Federal Trade Commission and other Federal as well state agencies, attorney generals can take action and sometimes do. I might suggest that if buying a new or used vehicle have a copy of the CARS act and state laws to show the sales and F&I person to make it clear you won't be snookered.
I truly hate to admit this. But Lucky Lopez says that if the cars rules passes it will be far worse for customers because anything the government touches turns to crap.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. The NBA hires mostly black players, does that mean they are discriminating against whites? Obviously not. Unless they're sending each other emails saying "don't hire whites, even if they're really good, we just want black players". Same goes for anything else. Just because black people paid more on average doesn't mean anything discriminatory. Black people like cars a bit more than white people, so they're willing to pay a bit more. That seems like the most obvious and logical answer. If you want the best deal you have to be willing to walk away, and the more you want the car the less likely you're going to walk away over a few hundred bucks difference. If you can find some emails or memos going around the dealership reminding everyone to add their $250 black guy fee to the price of the vehicle, then sure, they're discriminating, but otherwise sounds like just more woke BS. If someone really wants the car, and that person happens to be black, that's not discrimination that's just supply and demand. When demand is high the price goes up, duh.
Tesla, Rivian and Lucid have no dealerships in the US. You buy direct from the manufacturer. The price on the website is what you pay +TTL. Easy, with no worry that you are about to be bent over at any point in time.
Where do you pick up the car then? Who takes care of registration, especially if you need new plates? Where do you get a Tesla serviced? I'm not pro dealer by any stretch, but those questions need to be addressed.
Dealerships should only exist to provide service and warranty work. Its ridiculous that it takes hours to buy a vehicle. Direct to consumer sales should be the model of the future.
Where would you pick up a car if not at a dealership? Burger King? Who will take care of registration, especially when new plates are issued? I don't support dealers any more than you do, but there are still certain realities to consider.
@@joewoodchuck3824 all of those services could be done through direct to consumer sales. Buy online and the manufacturer delivers your car. I bet Amazon or similar service could take that up and not miss a beat and do it 1000 times better! Registrations are available everywhere including the DMV if you must. Dealerships are a dinosaur business model that's only managed to stick around this long because of the lobbyists in DC.
If the FTC win you will have to be careful of any expensive cars you have to sell, because as you don’t charge the fees, if their removed by others sellers, their prices will become cheaper and you will have to reduce yours to remain competitive
And this is really caused from loans, somebody borrowing money treats money different than someone buying with cash, expensive cars should require large down payments! The buyer has no skin in the game. This doesn't make dealerships rich
I have heard multiple dealerships say nitrogen fees. I always wondered if it was from the factory with nitrogen (I highly doubt). I respond with show me build sheet with nitrogen on it. I am pretty sure that dealerships are not going to get a vehicle in from factory and deflate tires to refill with nitrogen. Correct me if I am wrong. I just walk out when the fees come into the conversation. I definitely understand upgrades from factory.
What I have never understood is this. Most tires are filled with compressed air. Air is 78% nitrogen. (It's also 21% oxygen and 1% noble gases,e.g. neon, argon, etc. ). How can raising the mix from 78% to 100% make any difference? This is a classic scam.
15:15 It's not really the fault of the consumer though. A recent study noted something like 60% of EULAs people are expected to agree to are written a reading level higher than your average person has. You shouldn't need a lawyer to know if you can make a FB account; you shouldn't need a lawyer to buy a car. The policies should be shorter and more comprehensible.
It used to be used car dealer is a euphemism for shady. New car dealers wanted a piece of that. "By law we have to charge market adjustment, everybody pays that."
A car purchase and documents are a breeze compared to buying a home. Seriously, there are soooo many pages to go through and sign or initial that you just say "screw it" and just start signing. And talk about areas of potential unfairness. It's the only business I know of where you can offer the full asking price and lose because someone else may or may have not offered more (and by the way, most products that are listed at a price sell to the first person willing to pay it, so why are bidding wars allowed on homes?). Plus, the buying agent stands to make more money the higher the selling price and only if the sale goes through, so you hope they aren't convincing you to up-pay and that the home inspector they recommend will find all the issues rather than glossing over them so that the sale goes through and they get more referrals. Oh, and the mortgage interest rates that seem to lock in fine when rates go down, but somehow don't when they go up.
Dealerships should be investigated for restraint of trade for having laws passed preventing the sale of EV's without having a dealership. The dealership PACs and Associations have funneled money to state representative's and senator's campaigns to ensure passage of laws that should be unconstitutional based on restraint of trade which harms consumers. It's beyond comprehension that, in this day and age, you can restrict online sales of a product that saves the consumer money and eliminates sitting for hours in a dealership negotiation with known thieves.
Direct factory sale isn't perfect either. A. The factory is free to pull the add on trick just the same. B. Pickup point. The dealerships will pull something different on buyers having lost a sale through their own office. They're also the ones taking care of the physical registration process. C. Who is going to do factory authorized service?
Just imagine if car dealerships operated honestly and above board. 😇 They probably would make as much, if not more money at the end of the day. 💰💰 I don’t dread buying other items, even a home, more than I dread going to a car dealer. I do like CarMax, they never try to tack add ons, or change the price when I step on the lot.
I'm with you, my wife and I are driving 2009 and 2012 vehicles. We probably would have been the ones to buy new cars every few years but the experience at the dealerships is awful.
They disclose all the costs on the contracts that are not listed on the vehicles sticker, or on the websites they list a vehicle. So I always wondered if the doc fee amount fluctuated by customer depending on which type of vehicle is being purchases. I went in in 2019 to buy a used vehicle listed for 15,0000 and put 5 k down. Doc fees & misc fees (3750) and taxes (1250) ate up my down payment. The guy seemed really irritated with me because I was preapproved with my lender for the vehicle and wouldn't finance through their lender.
I hope they start in California, because they won’t budge on price and on the last year model instead of a 12 k dealer mark up they still have 6 k mark up above the MSRP
I like that the dealerships are losing money now because of all the gouging they did since COVID. Market adjustments was truly crooked
This is why Dealerships are commonly referred to "Stealerships"
I was about to type the same thing 😂
"Good one" "how do you come up with this shit?"
Shut them all down
My Dad had diabetes and wanted a new Tacoma 4x4 as his last vehicle. I found what he wanted. He drove it, said it would take it and left a deposit. They gave him a Buyer's Order with the fees and total due yet. Two days later we go to pick it up, and the Closer starts with the sales pitch my Dad looked at me and I said no no let him finish. After he was finished explaining everything from the extended warranty to the scotch guard I said "We Will take it ALL" the smile on his face was ear to ear. I reached into my Dad's chest pocket and pulled out the bank check, as long as it all fits on this check. You knew what we were doing. Then they said well we already put on pin stripes and locking lug nuts, I said well you better start pulling them because we aren't paying for them. Those were freebies!!!
Nice
😂
Pin strips? Is that dealer living in 1987? Id want another $1,000 off if they put those old fart stripes on my car.
Lol well done
Pin stripes are just stickers, lmao
Get rid of dealerships, period. Where was the FTC in the last 3 years.
yep. We dont need middle men to buy a car. We can do it online or these companies themselves should run the dealers and not just have their name attached to it.
Staying nice and quiet! They aren't there for us. They're there to look like they're there for us. If they were real, ppl like Kena Khahn would be the standard, not the exception.
The Republicans in the Senate were holding up the confirmations of new FTC Commissioners. The prior commissioners were more 'business friendly'. There are 5 FTC Commissioners, and they serve 7-year terms.
Dealerships can not be eliminated under current Federal Law. And States have laws about dealerships also.
Not sure how you think Americans will buy cars without a dealership model. Or are you going to buy your next car on TEMU?
Lina Kahn is too busy doing TV interviews and being famous.
I just bought, this month, a new '24 Toyota Corolla. When the finance "thief" met with me and tried to sell me a bunch of extras I declined all but a tire and wheel road hazard warranty for $6.50 a month. When I reviewed the actual finance contract, a week later at home, I found that they charged me $2200 for that item! What con men, what thieves!! Needless to say I demanded that we re-write the deal, which was done. I dropped the tire warranty too.
Yep same thing Toyota said $6 or $7 for tire warranty it wound up being $15 they bunched it in with other things so you couldn’t see the actual price. tire protection is a waste 😮!I had one tire replaced and they say oh here’s your free tire ? Free? I paid $500 for that tire over 3 year lease !simple don’t take any extras at the dealer !they’re liars and crooks . When I bought the lease out at the end of 3 years for my 2018 rav 4 I was dealing directly with Toyota not the dealer so no extras were charged . They should Do away with all dealerships and do like I did deal directly with the manufacturer no extras no bs no Haggling same price for everyone!
I leased a new Honda and they changed the miles I was allowed to drive it per year that we had agreed upon. They didnt give me a paper contract but instead put it on a flash drive and gave me that. When I got home and reviewed it, it was changed from 12 K a year to 10K miles. I was livid and went back the next day and demanded they change it to 12K which they did but i wondered how many other people they cheated who didnt look at the contract on the flash drive.
@@PlymouthCuda340 Glad you caught them. Dealers count on the fact that most people are too lazy or too dumb to check the terms and dollars on their purchase.
F the car dealerships and BS fees. Let's go to direct sales from the manufacturers and let independent shops provide warranty service and maintenance.
I agree 💯
Excellent idea all franchised dealerships are Stealerships. They are the dinosaurs of the auto industry impending sales with extremely high markups that are unjustified! I think the U.S. government's FTC agency should have full control and always crack down on dealerships that push unjustified fees and price markups! The more government control on getting rid off unfair pricing the better! The more harsher the regulations become the better it will be for the average consumer! 👍
lol! The only problem with that is convincing the manufacturer to pay fair labor for warranty service. As it stands Independent shops have ZERO interest in doing warranty work for manufacturers.
At least with the dealership you can take advantage of their need to sell an aged unit. Manufacturers are just going to sell it for all the money every time
All these junk fees are perfectly fine as long as they are advertised in the overall price of the car. If they want to put add-ons and accessories to the vehicle this needs to be disclosed online before the consumer gets there
I bought a VW and the dealer snuck in the extended warranty after I said I didn’t want it. Only reason I caught it was the loan was declined the next day because I was pre-approved for a set amount. I went back to the dealer and made them remove it. The scowls I received from them was gratifying. Dealers are all shady. Some just have better smiles than others.
id of negated on the deal completely and went elsewhere.
Everyone is trying to screw the little guy. Got a $4000 loan for a $6000 truck from a credit union to build credit and buy a house. They slipped gap insurance in after I said no. First payment was $400 high because of the gap. They wanted me to pay $24,000 of gap over the 5 year loan on a $6000 dollar truck with a $4000 note that 10 years later still would be worth more than the note on day 1!!!! The real kick in the dingaling was that after I got the gap removed then paid off the loan right away and closed my account my credit dropped 30 points which was the entire reason for getting the loan… I had more than enough money in the credit union when I signed the paperwork!
In other words, the FTC alleges this dealership was doing what dealerships do. Dealership still wonder why nobody likes them. It's amazing how some salesman really are clueless about that. I don't know if racial discrimination actually plays a part in this; I think it's based more on how much they think they can get away with each individual person.
@@kevinbarry71 a true racist only loves the color “ GREEN” that’s their #1. CB
They don’t care because you have little choice,all dealerships do the same things. Nitrogen has no moisture in it and doesn’t expand and contract with a change in temperature. The cost is minimal so refuse paying for it. It’s just another gouge from the dealers,and how do you tell if they actually use it?
dead give away is I went into a dealer for the price they has listed online. looked good, test drove the truck they after test drive sitting down they say lets run some numbers. I said I seen the listed price on line. comes back with 3600 with add ons. I said im good thank for the test drive.
Same here. I went to look at a Honda civic listed for 26k. Once he showed the car he said btw heres the out the door price. Comes back with 31k almost 4k of add ons. I shook his hand and said I’m not interested.
Dealerships hate me. I have read everything ever since I was taken advantage of when I was much younger. I bought "lifetime tires" for $599. The stipulations were they every oil change, every scheduled maintenance, had to be performed by the dealership. I never got my tires replaced under the "lifetime tires" coverage I bought at Ford. Lifetime tires coverage was offered by BMW and Kia on later purchases. You can bet I read three fine prints. Kia tried to weasel out a few times but ended up replacing my tires every time. BMW tried to hand me some bullshit about one set a year, but it was not in their contract. Those run-flats are expensive, and they can't be patched. Eventually, they honored the contract and were probably surprised I knew their contract so well. I always ask for printed copies to read of everything, a private area where I can read everything, and I bring a highlighter. I nix everything I won't pay or shouldn't have to pay, like dealer prep (reconditioning fees for used), and if they don't like it, I take a walk. I never go on without cash in hand or a pre-approved draft from my credit union with GAP already purchased. The cost of GAP at my credit union is $499. I have never seen a dealership charge less than $900 for GAP. I have had dealerships tell me that GAP is mandatory, which is a lie. I don't need dent protection, fabric protection, nitrogen, ceramic coating, clear bras, pre-paid oil changes, or anything else. I live in a rural area with dirt and gravel roads for a few miles before I get to my house. Tire and wheel protection is a bargain for me if the contract is correct. My tires and wheels get damaged all the time. Even $899 is a good deal given that my tires are $299 each, and the factory wheels are almost $1000 each. I'll buy it if the terms are well worded, but they'll (the dealership) is going to lose money. I'm ok with the confrontation I always get the first time I make a claim. I've never lost at the service department getting them to honor their contract.
It is BEYOND time that someone FINALLY starts holding these dealerships accountable.
Did not see the FTC do jack the last few years while stealerships upcharged 20-70k over msrp.
Remember Saturn with the no-haggle, the price you see is the price you pay, pricing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Too bad they made mostly junks. Scion was also no haggle pricing originally
All that gets thrown out the window when someone has a trade.
yea they never made a car that I wanted to buy.
@@bmacaulay18 Why trade in, Private value is higher. If you say tire kickers, if you list the car on the market with a fair market value price it will sell instantly. People try to list private high to recoup their depreciating assets then cry wolf when it doesn't sell and they get trolls.
@@abrahammc2125 if as a dealer you can’t discount the car because fixed prices you can over allow on the trade (discount by giving too much for the trade). The other advantage is the sales taxes are based on the trade difference in many states. That’s how the “one price” dealers got around the no discount. As to why not sell it yourself, there are many reasons why people don’t want to do it that way. More than anything else it’s convenience.
It's called the out-the-door price. I don't care what makes up the OTD, I'm not paying a penny more.
good information ... i've walked out dealers too many to count but the most memorable was in 1990 when the first ever Miatas were coming to shore... my wife had to have one .. they played every game in the book. They hadn't arrived so you had to reserve yours and WAIT. They'd then sell yours to another customer for more money and your wait got longer. Also, they added premiums over MSRP ( $2,000 - $5,000 - real money back then). Brutal - We basically walked out of 6 dealers that weekend ( my wife close to tears ) because I wanted MSRP and a sales order with the VIN of specific car ( they had a list with the cars that were set to depart Japan with vin numbers). Long story, one dealer called me back a day later - fun little car we drove all over the place.
Worked at a Dodge dealership years ago, and the price would be different for the same vehicle depending on how the customer is dressed. Dealers have screwed consumers for YEARS & YEARS & YEARS
If I thought the FTC would actually do it, I'd spend a weekend going from dealer to dealer collecting the evidence for them.
That assumes that the SCOTUS doesn't cut the FTC off at the knees by ruling that there is no LAW requiring them to do so.
I remember when the add-ons were just the TT&L. Cars were advertised at the price they were being sold for + TT&L. I praise the honest dealers, the rest can rot in bankruptcy courts, with my hope that they do.
get rid of dealerships or have option to buy straight from manufacturer like telsa.
Ok, but what about price competition, pickup point, and service?
Thank you, great video and I fully stand behind you on this!!!!!!!!! It was less stressfull signing for my mortgage than it has been buying cars 😅over the years.
We have Coulter Cadillac Pontiac GMC out in Tempe, Arizona that paid upwards of $3 million fine for doing something very similar
When did this happen? Can't find anything about it online.
@@azmike3572 type in Coulter Cadillac Tempe fine and it’ll be right there
If you’re talking Pontiac then this happened like 20 years ago. Who cares.
@@corvettemode1556 they still use Pontiac on their business license so that’s why it’s still relevant. There’s another dealer in town whose name is Sanderson Lincoln Mercury on their business license but they do business as Sanderson Lincoln
Most car dealerships are crooked. Big surprise. Please educate yourselves before you head to a dealership. I Thank this channel for its educational content
I agree, doesnt matter what color you are. They will steal if you let them The gov't are liars
Great video. Well explained. I was so satisfied when I had hammered out a deal on my wife's Maverick and they said how about financing....I said give me the total and I'll have a bank draft in your hands tomorrow. By-by to the kick back from the finance company.
Remember 4 cars ago the dealer charged me for dealer add ons. ( like floor mats and nitrogen) Was told everyone pays it! So i did! The last three cars i said NO and they stood firm until I stand up to walk out! Then all of a sudden they drop the fees and I Keep the add ons!
Never had nitrogen but always get floor mats and upgrade to the Weathertech ones which my dealer in past had better price and everything beat Weathertech. They as well as any or value added in my opinion
I went to a dealership, that advertised a Toyota Tacoma, for 18.500. Regular cab 4x4. When I got there, there were none. Sat me down with the finance manager. When she walked in. She ask me how she could help me? I told her, nothing. Walked out. I get a call from the salesperson, who said. When you coming by to get your truck. I told him I wasn’t coming by. He said, I guess you’re giving up your down payment. I said what down payment? He said, thanks a lot pal. Wow.
I just went to a major dealership with my friend to buy a car. They were so shady… they charged $199 for echo etching (vin on all windows, that wasn’t even there) I asked them to remove and they wouldn’t. Said law requirement, I would need to speak with their district manger, and sign a from stating I didn’t want it to provide to the DMV. I told them we would end the deal if they didn’t remove. They decided to give a registration reimbursement for the $199.
Inquired about a vehicle in FL….DOC FEE 1200.00…GOODBYE
Florida is horrible. I learned my lesson and will NEVER buy a car in this two bit state again.
What is a DOC fee ?
This is being held up in the fifth district which is the most pro business district in the country. Dealerships are HUGE donors to politicians nothing will be done or by the time it goes into effect it will be so watered down it will make no difference. I hope I am wrong I would love to be wrong but I don't think I am.
I was just negotiating a deal on a Sequoia in Utah. The vehicle was still in the rail yard and hadn’t been delivered to the dealership. The dealer added gap protection for $1050 and “paint protection” $495. I objected to both. I was told the paint protection was added by the dealer and couldn’t be removed. I stopped negotiating at that point and told them I’d deal with another dealer.
The max doc fee allowed in Ca is $85. If they can make that discrimination claim stick that dealership is going to be very sad at the fines.
Florida is like $800 😩
They'll pay a fine "without admitting any wrongdoing" and business continues as usual. Shadiness is the foundation upon which car dealerships are built.
They need to start increasing fines. If you want to pay without admitting wrongdoing, the fine has to be set at least 101% of your profit during the fraudulent period. If you want to pay a "normal" fine you have to admit wrongdoing and publish that admission in a local newspaper or other relevant outlet.
And none of that money will get anywhere near the victims.
5:26 78% of the air we breathe is nitrogen. I would never pay for nitrogen lol.
I managed a gas contract for an analytical laboratory. We used high purity nitrogen for instruments that used large amounts for a drying gas. The generator cost $15k with ~$2k per year in supplies. It supplied more than any car dealership would ever need. The biggest cost for nitrogen for a large dealership would be in labor to fill the tires.
Perhaps this is the start for direct order for customers with a delivery merchant like carvana or vroom?
yep, id rather pay a delivery and save thousands over going to a dealertship
This is crazy when you hear these things. Black White Hispanic, any color for that matter does it make a difference? Makes me sick we need somebody that can step in and really just shut them down. You do these things go to jail top to bottom no different than a scammer call center.
People of color should pay more attention to their math classes and not be dumb turds
We are long past due to enforce dealerships to be honest with their pricing. I sold cars for 5 years and it made me sick to have to hawk these bs products to customers and have to tell them they don’t qualify for the online price for one reason or another. It’s s not 1979 anymore but dealers and owners are stuck in the past.
On our local talk radio here in Phoenix they had a story the other day about a dealer here Coulter Cadillac is pulling the same 💩 that you are talking about. WTF. It’s going on everywhere I guess. Thanks for the vid.
Our local Toyota dealer told us the BS add ons were from the factory and not them. Over the years we've bought three new cars from them. Never again.
If it isn't on the factory window sticker it isn't from the factory. Dealers get add-on stickers they put to the right of the factory one that look like factory and say that's the deal.
@@bmacaulay18 Thank you for that information, good point. We were looking at SUV's still in shipment and getting the run around.
Toyota is its own special case, the Toyota distributor also adds things to the cars
@@pbshooter100 if you are talking about SET (Southeast Toyota) who controls GA,FL,AL,NC,SC anything added is on the factory window sticker. It’s just like any other factory window sticker. The extra BS stickers that dealers have made to look just like the factory sticker that is the fake stuff. Nitro $699, wheel locks $150, pinstripe $250, market adjustment $ upto whatever is all dealer.
@@bmacaulay18 Yes what you say is true but Toyota is unique in that there is a factory sticker plus the sticker with the added items from the distributor and finally additions from the dealer. For all the others you have the MFG sticker plus the dealer additions.
FTC should go after GM and any other manufactures which sell your information collected from the computer on the cars they sell.
I remember when like a better radio and leather seats were the only add ons
And power windows/locks/seats.
They should the whole car dealer experience is crooked
I sold Volvos and a new station wagon was deeply discounted. The management hid this unit from view. Customer test drove it before it was hidden.
He ended with a demo afterward. Felt bad for the customer and revealed to him what was done. I didn't care as I was leaving for university studies. Heard he got the new wagon after complaining to Consumer Affairs
Fees are just another way to put MORE PROFITS into their pockets and BEAT uneducated car purchasers.
My last 3 new car purchases (2 Toyotas, 1 Chevy) were all done online dealing with the dealership’s internet sales dept. I never go to the dealership until I have the out-the-door price including all fees. No haggling or getting upset! I show up, pay the agreed price, including all fees, and have a pleasant experience!!
I remember when I went to get my 16 F250, they tried so hard on all these fees, I kept on questioning them and trapping them with their own words, got the dock fee, prep fee (same fee 2x) and a few others, just walked away with processing fee, tags, taxes, and price of the truck
A dealership that I ran the bodyshop for charged 500 dollars for undercoating that was not even put on. They sprayed just a little so the customer saw and was happy with. Twenty bucks of material and 15 minutes labor for 500. They charged 250 for 5 dollars of pinstripe and half an hour to put it on. Nitrogen is another big rip off. You get no benefit for using it. It costs literally a dollar or so for the gas and another half hour labor for 300 bucks. The list goes on and on. They are making a fortune ripping people off. Don't play their games. Tell them you don't want any ad ons. They may not even sell you one because of it.
Never paid a DOC fee in my life. I negotiate down where I want to be I say "deal", but I am not a DOC fee. They say "everyone pays a DOC fee". I say you can show you charged me a DOC fee on the Buyers Order, but you will drop the top line by the cost of the DOC FEE. Easy peasy...
You’re so cool
Doofus
In Ontario Canada the advertise fee is the final fee plus license and tax. No admin or other charges can be added.
Hey Brandon, when is your next interview with that Nissan GM? With all the recent news about Nissan losing 99% of the operating profit in the US, layoffs and calls for Nissan to reduce the amount of dealerships, it will be very insightful to get some insider perspective of these recent news surrounding Nissan and the automotive industry.
Nissan's problem is they make a poor quality product and have cars that MUST be brought to the dealer for certain repairs. Never buy a Nissan.
I had to stop it at 6:30. Your exactly right, and I know where your going, and your right! One more big one nobody ever talks about, and I think is a real crime... and I have to preface this by saying not exactly at this time, is bank loans! The banks have a minimum rate per score. Everything over that, the dealer keeps! If you qualify for a 3.0% loan, and the dealer gets you to sign for 5%, they can get the 2% back from the lender! I've seen it done! And what about the "hold back", that money the dealer gets from the manufacturer after the vehicle is sold? Yet they still charge "doc fees"? How about it's all covered by their profit!!
This isn't discrimination. It's more like price gauging.
I bought my current car new about 12 years ago, so I haven't run into the electronic signature process yet. I plan to be buying a new car soon, but I have no intention on signing anything electronically. It is too big of a purchase to not read every word of what you are being asked to sign. Written words are legally enforceable, while shorter verbal 'explanations' of what the words say aren't legally enforceable. If need be, I plan to take the paperwork home to read it before I sign. If they don't like that then they can shorten the paperwork. Hopefully it will also discourage them from trying to sell me extra junk like an extended warranty. And I plan on taking photos of every page of any document that I sign - I wouldn't even trust them to make me a copy. I feel free to push back on this stuff more and more every year - especially for employers. Too many people take advantage of the fact that most people will sign whatever you put in front of them.
@@JasonEDragon They have to let you take the paperwork to review if you request it. If they don’t you can take action against them by reporting to the state.
Agreed. Never go tired or feel pressured, never give up/leave a car in trade first, never give up your keys, and... if they say that this deal is only good for today, then just say you will not be back tomorrow, say you're leaving, and leave. You will have voice mail messages before you get home.
Just sit at their desk and read everything. They won't like it, but they can't afford to kick you out over it when you're trying to buy a car.
Never tell a dealership what you want a payment to be. Big no no
New car dealers are much worse than used aluminum siding sales. Haven't set foot in a stealership in years.
Many years ago, I told the salesman i would only pay 15,000 for the car. When the paperwork came the car was 15000 and then they added doc fees. I walked..
I want the FTC to win and set a precedent for all car dealers going forward. Go FTC!
The advertised price needs to be the drive away price, this is the law in Australia. The drive away price includes all add ons, delivery fees and registration.
I have always had an extremely hard time believing that new vehicle dealerships are coming up with these extraneous fees and add-ons unbeknownst to their respective manufacturers. Has it never occurred to anyone that these fees and add-ons are showing up on window stickers per instructions from the manufacturers themselves? It doesn't make any sense that new vehicle dealerships would risk a problem with their respective manufacturers in this regard. What does make sense is that these dealerships are just following instructions from manufacturers to price gouge customers with these fees and add-ons.
A looked at a Tundra at an AutoNation dealer in FL and took it for a test drive. After the test drive I asked the salesperson for the price, and he showed me a listing on his phone, which seemed to be a good price. Went back to talk numbers and it turns out he had “accidentally” shown me a listing from a different (but similar) truck, and, WOOOPS, *this* truck was actually more expensive. I called for the manager and told them they were both liars and walked out. I suppose that tactic works on some people?
The best experience I had with a dealership was Niello Acura in Northern California. Only thing I paid extra for was $300 gap insurance. Only reason I got it was because no money down. Took them longer to detail the car than buying it.
this is why dealerships get the nickname Stealerships because thats what they do is steal.
honestly we dont even need dealerships anymore. I think we should be allowed to buy direct and the dealerships shouldnt be a middle man where more money is added for no reason. Like they add no value at all anymore. They should handle everything in house and go online or ford chevy and so on should run the lots themselves so ther3e is no middleman.
EXCEPT:
Where would you pick up the car then?
Who will take care of registration, especially when new plates are involved?
Who will do factory authorized service?
@@joewoodchuck3824 you could do it online or the manufacture just takes over the dealerships. They could also have authorized mechanics that take over the service and repair.
Thanks for the honest insight.
Discrimination in 2024 no way 😮
As a lawyer, I read legalese and I'm going to read every word. If you sign a document, the law assumes that you've read it and agree with whatever the terms specify.
that happened with window etching and Nitrogen, I told them I WILL NOT PAY for things I didn't ask for.
they took the cost off the car, but left it on the invoice as those items.
They have to leave it on the invoice so they can write it off.
When you're at a dealership, if you think your salesman is blowing smoke up your ass, take out your phone and check the internet. If the salesman says "we have to charge dock fees by law," take out your phone in front of him, and see for yourself.
dock fee is mainly going to the staff commissions/payroll.
@@The1ThtRulesAll Basically pays for all the 'Non Value Add' hangers on. They add nothing of any real value but still "do stuff"
What are the fees per detail. They are required by law in every state to handle tax and title fees which by definition are fees. My current state has to define each separately while my previous state rolled all taxes, tags, and transfer etc as a lump under document fees. Dealerships should just say OK and let you drive off to DMV or where ever you want with no tags and no proof and call the law to cover themselves.
@@gc1172 It'll depend on the state. I'm in California, I haven't sold cars in quite a while. It used to be the dealership could charge you up to $100 (IIRC) for the back-office staff processing the licensing and registration paperwork (on top of the state charges for both of those), but the $100 charge WAS NOT required. Anything else was discretionary and between you and the dealership, and I think that's where the problems occur that Brandon is talking about in this video; requiring you to buy an extended warranty, requiring nitrogen fill in the tires, adding 'paint protection insurance', etc.
I don't understand why that's not a computer program that runs. There is no reason for human interaction
just fyi addons don't exist in most of Europe, the official websites have a MSRP you have option packs or models all listed and the only thing you pay on top of that is a "delivery fee" which is understandable not only for the time spent to roughly inspect the car remove the transport protections check oil etc...but also because they have a few hours of administrative work in the end we pay a 600USD equivalent fee + msrp + customer chosen options nothing else, american fees and addons have zero reasons to exist
one of your best. keep up the great work... Please do a show on vans
There are the mandatory monies, ie tax title license. Maybe even convenience fee, which I am told is legitimate
fees from state. Other fees are revenue enhancers, ie nitrogen, car protection, plus; where may come out in process
of negotiation process. Better negotiation v discrimination.
I have walked out on dealers that would not remove the fees. Thier loss not mine. I never need a car, I keep two. When one becomes too costly and not worth repair I will shop for a other but since have second car never a rush.
Love the channel, I’m waiting for you and lucky lopez collaborating.
Man look. This is how you buy a car. I got this amount of money out the door. Would you like to sell it or not? It’s really that easy. I don’t understand why it’s more complicated than that. It’s how I have always bought cars. Even when you need a loan the math is so simple.
I just did a google search out of curiosity to see if new car dealerships in the 1960’s charged these junk fees on cars. That’s a flat NO. The dealers would offer add ons like air conditioning but hey, that’s legit. Wonder how it got to where we are now? After dinner the other night these a Dodge dealership next door and walking to the car, we glanced at one of the hundreds of unsold Hornets. Yep…$399 for nitrogen in the tires was only ONE of the ad ons. The Hornet MSRP is 51K and it’s been on their lot just shy of 9 months. So when and why did these extra fees become a thing. The article did say it was common for people to buy a new car every 2-3 years in the 60’s as opposed to now where I read the average age of a vehicle on the road is about 12 years.
There has long been massive racial, ethnic and gender (mainly with women) discrimination in motor vehicle sales. Yes the 'document fee' has to apply to all buyers to avoid discrimination charges but it is rampant in some many other ways including pricing, trade-in values, financing interest rates, 'dealer mandated and installed' accessories. Such discrimination has been documented by consumer groups but rarely acted on due to the bribery of our politicians. The Federal Trade Commission and other Federal as well state agencies, attorney generals can take action and sometimes do. I might suggest that if buying a new or used vehicle have a copy of the CARS act and state laws to show the sales and F&I person to make it clear you won't be snookered.
I truly hate to admit this. But Lucky Lopez says that if the cars rules passes it will be far worse for customers because anything the government touches turns to crap.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. The NBA hires mostly black players, does that mean they are discriminating against whites? Obviously not. Unless they're sending each other emails saying "don't hire whites, even if they're really good, we just want black players".
Same goes for anything else. Just because black people paid more on average doesn't mean anything discriminatory. Black people like cars a bit more than white people, so they're willing to pay a bit more. That seems like the most obvious and logical answer. If you want the best deal you have to be willing to walk away, and the more you want the car the less likely you're going to walk away over a few hundred bucks difference.
If you can find some emails or memos going around the dealership reminding everyone to add their $250 black guy fee to the price of the vehicle, then sure, they're discriminating, but otherwise sounds like just more woke BS. If someone really wants the car, and that person happens to be black, that's not discrimination that's just supply and demand. When demand is high the price goes up, duh.
Air is 78% nitrogen, just put 78% nitrogen in my tires.
Tesla, Rivian and Lucid have no dealerships in the US. You buy direct from the manufacturer. The price on the website is what you pay +TTL. Easy, with no worry that you are about to be bent over at any point in time.
Where do you pick up the car then?
Who takes care of registration, especially if you need new plates?
Where do you get a Tesla serviced?
I'm not pro dealer by any stretch, but those questions need to be addressed.
Air is already 80% nitrogen. So a nitrogen fee is literally charging people for air in the tires.
Dealerships should only exist to provide service and warranty work. Its ridiculous that it takes hours to buy a vehicle. Direct to consumer sales should be the model of the future.
They drag it out to wear you down so you will sign anything just to leave.
Where would you pick up a car if not at a dealership? Burger King?
Who will take care of registration, especially when new plates are issued?
I don't support dealers any more than you do, but there are still certain realities to consider.
@@joewoodchuck3824 all of those services could be done through direct to consumer sales. Buy online and the manufacturer delivers your car. I bet Amazon or similar service could take that up and not miss a beat and do it 1000 times better! Registrations are available everywhere including the DMV if you must. Dealerships are a dinosaur business model that's only managed to stick around this long because of the lobbyists in DC.
Nice to see new content
If the FTC win you will have to be careful of any expensive cars you have to sell, because as you don’t charge the fees, if their removed by others sellers, their prices will become cheaper and you will have to reduce yours to remain competitive
And this is really caused from loans, somebody borrowing money treats money different than someone buying with cash, expensive cars should require large down payments! The buyer has no skin in the game. This doesn't make dealerships rich
Good stuff Brandon! Very informative.
This is pretty cool that the FTC is looking into this. Petty sure the companies will hire lobbyists to chant anti-gov't rhetoric.
I have heard multiple dealerships say nitrogen fees. I always wondered if it was from the factory with nitrogen (I highly doubt). I respond with show me build sheet with nitrogen on it. I am pretty sure that dealerships are not going to get a vehicle in from factory and deflate tires to refill with nitrogen. Correct me if I am wrong. I just walk out when the fees come into the conversation. I definitely understand upgrades from factory.
Lina Khan's FTC is doing great work protecting Americans from corporate greed for what they've got to work with.
The automobile industry has deserved having the book thrown at them. Most corrupt industry in America.
My local Honda dealer shows DOC and delivery fee as one fee. Is that normal? Their fee is $1,300. Seems like a lot.
I haven't seen a single family owned car dealership in decades
What I have never understood is this. Most tires are filled with compressed air. Air is 78% nitrogen. (It's also 21% oxygen and 1% noble gases,e.g. neon, argon, etc. ). How can raising the mix from 78% to 100% make any difference? This is a classic scam.
15:15 It's not really the fault of the consumer though. A recent study noted something like 60% of EULAs people are expected to agree to are written a reading level higher than your average person has. You shouldn't need a lawyer to know if you can make a FB account; you shouldn't need a lawyer to buy a car. The policies should be shorter and more comprehensible.
It used to be used car dealer is a euphemism for shady. New car dealers wanted a piece of that. "By law we have to charge market adjustment, everybody pays that."
Only thing nitrogen does for your tire. You don’t get freezing water crystals in your tire. Nothing more.
A car purchase and documents are a breeze compared to buying a home. Seriously, there are soooo many pages to go through and sign or initial that you just say "screw it" and just start signing. And talk about areas of potential unfairness. It's the only business I know of where you can offer the full asking price and lose because someone else may or may have not offered more (and by the way, most products that are listed at a price sell to the first person willing to pay it, so why are bidding wars allowed on homes?). Plus, the buying agent stands to make more money the higher the selling price and only if the sale goes through, so you hope they aren't convincing you to up-pay and that the home inspector they recommend will find all the issues rather than glossing over them so that the sale goes through and they get more referrals. Oh, and the mortgage interest rates that seem to lock in fine when rates go down, but somehow don't when they go up.
Dealerships should be investigated for restraint of trade for having laws passed preventing the sale of EV's without having a dealership. The dealership PACs and Associations have funneled money to state representative's and senator's campaigns to ensure passage of laws that should be unconstitutional based on restraint of trade which harms consumers. It's beyond comprehension that, in this day and age, you can restrict online sales of a product that saves the consumer money and eliminates sitting for hours in a dealership negotiation with known thieves.
Direct factory sale isn't perfect either.
A. The factory is free to pull the add on trick just the same.
B. Pickup point. The dealerships will pull something different on buyers having lost a sale through their own office. They're also the ones taking care of the physical registration process.
C. Who is going to do factory authorized service?
Just imagine if car dealerships operated honestly and above board. 😇
They probably would make as much, if not more money at the end of the day. 💰💰
I don’t dread buying other items, even a home, more than I dread going to a car dealer.
I do like CarMax, they never try to tack add ons, or change the price when I step on the lot.
I'm with you, my wife and I are driving 2009 and 2012 vehicles. We probably would have been the ones to buy new cars every few years but the experience at the dealerships is awful.
Same as the doc fee. Any taxable fee is offset with a commiserate reduction in price. Simple.
They disclose all the costs on the contracts that are not listed on the vehicles sticker, or on the websites they list a vehicle. So I always wondered if the doc fee amount fluctuated by customer depending on which type of vehicle is being purchases. I went in in 2019 to buy a used vehicle listed for 15,0000 and put 5 k down. Doc fees & misc fees (3750) and taxes (1250) ate up my down payment. The guy seemed really irritated with me because I was preapproved with my lender for the vehicle and wouldn't finance through their lender.
I hope they start in California, because they won’t budge on price and on the last year model instead of a 12 k dealer mark up they still have 6 k mark up above the MSRP