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Why Helldivers 2 Developer Keeps Nerfing Weapons || Arrowhead's Game Design Philosophy Explained
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- In this video I attempt to explain Weapon Balancing in Helldivers 2. Why do Arrowhead keep nerfing & buffing weapons?
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Arrowheads Blog Post referred to in this vid (highly recommended):
Update: Balancing the Firepower in Helldivers 2
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#mogz #helldivers #helldivers2
0:00 - Intro
0:32 - They're doing it wrong
2:35 - Buffs vs Nerfs
4:33 - Helldivers is TEAMWORK
7:40 - Helldivers is STRATAGEMS
10:00 - What do you think?
Unfortunately most games that look like a triple A shooter are going to make you feel like a god until you get to pvp.
As a veteran of Helldivers 1, I can quite confidently tell you that this game is far easier. The game is meant to be very difficult, you will not make it to extraction every single time, you will struggle, you will die, your friends will kill you in a panic, and you will feel like quitting. That is the point.
The tools they give us are not meant to work in every situation, they are situational. You will learn how to build a loadout and a team, or you will fail.
Asking for constant weapon buffs is only evidence of your inability to complete missions.
Stop bringing an all explosive loadout. Stop forgetting to bring something that can pierce heavy armor. I don't care how much you like your favorite anti-chaff build. Help your god damn team and complete the objective whatever it takes.
this
guy
gets
it
@@Mogz-hd I'll see you on the front soldier
Unfortunately in the same vain, there was much more variety in helldivers 1's end of lifecycle than what currently exists in helldivers 2. I feel that many of the players feel like there is a lack of variety, not so much that you can't clear content, but that niche items that you as a player might find fun don't have enough use cases in higher difficulties.
When the game becomes robust with more strategems and options it'll be fine to have the weapons and strategems be more niche.
i.e. with how the rocket launchers have progressed and unlocked, having the choice between EAT, recoilless, Spear, and Quasar makes there have more variety and use cases for each one. But if you think of launch, many felt like the options pre-buffs were just not worth running.
Another example is people that were crying about mechs at the time of release. There would've been much less crying in the community if we had our apcs, tanks, etc. that give options but as there is no other alternative for vehicle enjoyers, they will often complain.
I may have little difficulty clearing higher content when I use what's considered the meta at the time, but I want my other options to feel like they have an impact and use case worth bringing other than aesthetic fun.
Going "oh, I want to bump up the difficulty, I'll have to drop the gas strike (which I was enjoying in this example) for the 500kg" doesn't feel good. Neither does finding your exact taste in what you like for xyz scenario only to see it get annihilated in something you can't use for that same xyz scenario.
That being said, I don't think it's so much a issue of how difficult the game is for many (though there isn't a small part of people who do cry about that part), it's about the lack of variety you see and how instead of taking unique tools and opening up their niche they almost always seem to take the opposite approach and remove options by rendering a lot of them useless or destroys the niche role they played.
Still waiting for the chance for underutilized strategems like gas orbitals to feel good and to find a reason to use not the same 4 strategems on 90% of scenarios. Maybe one day they'll give me a few new strong strategems I enjoy to throw into the mix.
And the opposite, don't have the bull team bringing Quasar Cannon, EAT, Recoilless Riffle, Orbital Rail cannon, 500KG bomb, 110mm Eagle Strike and then complain that there are too many hunters bitting your ass
Man, that's not the point, the point is there are weapons that SHOULD work just fine but don't. No amount of teamwork matters if all the weapons are shit, or the useful weapons are shit and no one can cover eachothers weak points. Players SHOULD be able to use what they want and cover each others weaknesses, but it's hard to do that with the current weapon balancing. It's not as simple as "Helldivers 1 community better" you daft twat
I would like to see a test facility on mars. A place you can go and test load outs and weapons without going on a mission. And when the developers have new weapons to test before release, maybe spend requisition slips to access them for an hour at a time. Nothing crazy. Just something to spend requisition slips on so it doesn’t feel pointless to get them when you are maxed out. Super earth R and D facility on Mars!
Tech development on Mars?
Omnissiah be praised!
The weapons just dont feel good. Id be happier if fhey double enemy spawns and buff all weapons. Id rather get killed by 6 chargers while taking out 3 with a badass weapon than survive 3 of them by slowly shooting wet noodles.
THIS! The enemy spawn patrols would be fine if I wasn’t shooting paint balls
I respect that. More enemies and stronger weapons
Exactly
the quasar was THE PERFECT example of versatility. a good cool off time to get two or three chargers off your back, take out nests and broadcast towers.
then they fucking nerfed it so you need a year and half to cool down and charge up the god damn thing. i had fucking five gunships on me to take one out and be absolutely fucking annihilated by 3 others. it’s just not fun when you can’t defend yourself from shit. not with these useless ass weapons
I agree with this but I don’t exactly trust arrowhead to be able to balance such a thing. We’d probably just end up with the game being in an even worse state
It feels to me that the balance devs are specifically targeting the players that can solo helldive difficulty. But what they don't seem to understand is that the harder they try to cripple the best players (buffing enemy patrol spawns and nerfing the popular weapons), the less fun they make the game for everyone else. I cannot solo helldive. Never could. But now, I can't even solo diff-5 due to the enemy spawns, and I play in fear that the weapons I like using will become effectively useless in a week, every week.
All the while, there are still players that can solo helldive no matter what the devs do. I like using the Breaker Incendiary because it helps me clear the chaff enemies so I can focus my attention on the bigger threats. I like the handling, the magazine size, and the additional burn effect. But some top tier players also commonly use that same weapon. How long until they nerf the Breaker Incendiary to spite the top players and my go-to primary loses what makes it fun? How long until they start nerfing stratagems after we make the switch to focus on those and a "meta" develops?
And as much as I enjoy playing co-op, there are times when I just don't want to get teamkilled by someone who didn't think about helping the team. They only thought about killing enemies. So they pick fights with EVERY patrol, get overwhelmed, run to the team, throw down stratagems, and get us caught in the crossfire. If I just want a good time on a medium difficulty without pointless deaths, I have to go solo. But I'm punished for that now...
I have had to take a break from the game lately, but I do still want it to be successful and fun because I genuinely care about it. I just worried about the direction the devs were taking it with all of these balance changes. Didn't mean to turn this post into a rant, but it seems some people at AH are listening to the playerbase and working to make the game more fun. So I look forward to what they do in that regard and I hope to return to playing the game soon
I disagree that the game is that much harder now, but them nerfing good weapons to trash tier is enough to for me to be completely against their balancing policy.
Not a solo game
The why even have solo as an option?
@@bryansmith2859 where is the solo is as an option?
2 months. "How long until they nerf the Breaker Incendiary just to spite the top players and my go-to primary loses what makes it fun?" It took them 2 months to do exactly that. Why did they reduce number of magazines and slightly increase the recoil, because it was too popular. Why was it popular to the point that it was taken on 30% of all bug missions, because it was fun and it did what we the players needed it to do. The popular ones get heavily scrutinized by the balance devs meanwhile the unpopular ones are still left completely ignored by those same balance devs. This change is not the end of the world, but I just wanted to provide this follow up to the question I posed in my original comment.
3:23 and what about the other way around? if there is only 1 or 2 viable loadouts the game will get repetitive and boring very fast.
Problem is not nerfing, its comming with patches that nerf the hell out of many weapons without providing any meaningful buffs to other weapons.
Have you tried the crossbow or the purifier? its useless, and you dont need much time to realize that
What i think its really happening here is that the jackasses that are in charge of balancing get off from seeing people having a bad time in the game.
My issue with certain nerfs. Railgun got nerfed due to bugs with crossplay they didn't fix for months. Slugger was nerfed because Marksman rifles didn't feel good to use (misaligned scopes didn't help) and all they did was make the Slugger not as good at close range due to the reduced stagger (before they buffed the marksman rifles the Slugger was still the best "sniper" in the game). Quazar cannon is odd because it's bad on paper but it doesn't change much other than being unable to take out dropships as fast if left alone. Eruptor's identity was gutted due to A. an exploit with the Charger's hitbox (the exploit is still there, apparently you can kill it with a single Pummeler magazine to the back legs) and B. people killing themselves and teammate more when they "fixed" ricochets. The new War Bond suffers from the weapons not being reworked to align with the balance patch that came out before. The Liberator got buffed up to where the Tenderizer was, so when the Tenderizer came out it was just another Liberator. The Purifier is shown to take out Scout Striders from the front in one shot in the trailer, but the Striders got a buff to explosion resistance before the Purifier was released.
Helldivers is a team game, the stratagems should be the main focus (be they orbitals, eagles, or support weapons and the like) but what I've listed above is due to the team "fixing" a symptom, not the cause. Also if they want the crossbow to be a "single medium target destroyer" it needs a buff cause all they did was make it bad at crowd control and the stagger isn't enough to be good with single medium targets.
Definitely a team game. That should emphasize it
@@Mac_Mayne_ATL I agree, the issue is one with many team games. The need to be independently powerful. It's why the railgun, shield, breaker was meta outside of the crossplay power up bug. Outside of major and personal orders, killing shouldn't matter unless the objective requires it. That said being able to kill is important which is why weak feeling weapons suck. And unless you're playing with friends you can't do stuff like a medic armor, supply backpack and EMP/smoke strike build without upsetting most randoms.
I get what your saying but there's a alot of weapons that are just not good enough to run for the mob density
use stratagem weapon to fill whatever gaps left by the primary
@@Mogz-hdThe stratagem weapon has to last until the next resupply, and it doesn't.
@@mikethemaniac1 uh really? mine do. Never run outa ammo of my stratagem weapon
I completely agree with your take on all this. I want the game to maintain the same feeling as the first HD game, and I see so many people asking for this game to become anything BUT that.
people ask for all these buffs, armor color changing, crossover events with everything under the sun... idk. I genuinely want this game to become a bit more niche so that arrowhead can make the best possible HD game and not something voted on by the world's largest focus group
like you said, this game isn't early access, but they sure are treating it like it is. I worry about that stuff too.
Same, i love that the game is getting the love it deserves, but i despise at least 60% from this new community.
Make the difficulties even harder.(more enemies, heat builds up faster)
Make the guns feel like they are not shit weapons.
More weaopns need to feel viable and not like they are meme builds.
I hope that the tenderizer gets a buff to match its description
It is difficult to maintain the spirit of a top down twin stick shooter, where ammo is scarce, weaponry is limited and lives are cheap, in a 3rd person shooter
I have some serious contention with some of the things you said.
particularly with the "all you needed at launch was the shield, railgun and breaker" and "primaries need to suck so you can use stratagems". This was only true if you were a PS5 player or had a PS5 player in your lobby. The PS5 player bug which multiplied weapon damage allowing people to 2shot bile titans, as well as being the only support weapon capable of penetrating heavy armor of hulks/titans. The railgun didnt need to get nerf, but it got a massive nerf because of a separate issue and players were punished. The railgun before the bug was fixed could 2shot a bile titan, after the bug got fixed, it takes about 20 shots now to kill a bile titan with all 20 shots being 90% charge. The gun is effectively worthless against a lot of enemies now because it barely does any damage now. It cant take out gunships, worthless on factory striders, worthless on bile titans, worthless on tanks and turrets, takes 3 chargers and then some on chargers and still 2 shots hulks. They buffed missile launchers like the EAT, Recoilless and SPEARS so they could finally pierce heavy armor so other weapons could finally compete against the railgun, but they never buffed the railgun back after the PS5 bug was fixed and now its garbage against most elite enemies. There has to be limits on both buffs and nerfs, and yet we havent seen reversions on those nerfs.
Second issue, is that you think primaries should be shit. NO, NO GOD JESUS CHRIST NO THIS IS A SHIT TAKE. Primaries have to be good WHILE YOUR STRATAGEMS ARE ON COOLDOWN. Especially with how many operation modifiers penalize your stratagem use like only 3 stratagems (forcing meta builds), 25% increased CD or 50% increased spread, or increased call in time. While you are waiting for your stratagems to come in or to come off cooldown, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO USE YOUR PRIMARY WHILE YOUR STRATS ARE ON COOLDOWN. If you are only allowed to enjoy the few moments you have to use your stratagems, and then have to wait 3-6+ minutes (or even 10 minutes for things like the mech) well then your primary weapon better be able to handle most threats in that 3-6 minute window between cooldowns. Making all primaries equally shit means that you are making the primary experience of gameplay intentionally bad just to make those few fleeting moments of explosion "good" with artificial scarcity. And in this time/entertainment economy for attention, if the majority of the gameplay is bad just so you can get your own preference of 2 seconds of fun, then you are going to see most of the playerbase die like it is because the game is boring as shit for most of the time. The problem at launch was the very few options players had for primaries and how so many of them weren't very good which forced people into the "breaker meta" because all other weapons except the scorcher were bad. The dominator wasnt that great, the breaker incendiary and slugger/punisher were horrible. the spray and pray was completely worthless and the diligence/CS and Liberator/concussive/penetrator werent that great either. All of those weapons (except the scorcher) have had to get buffs (and often multiple buffs) in addition to the breaker getting nerfed to make weapons more viable. Remember that the Breaker was still light penetration, so it wasnt actually good against most enemies in the higher difficulties, it just overperformed in the lower difficulties because most people were still playing lower difficulties. It wasnt until the nerf to elite spawns to put more medium spawns on the map that pushed the Breaker out of the limelight even after multiple nerfs because now it didnt perform very good against a significant portion of the enemy spawns with their medium armor. The devs have been overnerfing popular weapons without considering what made them popular and what made a weapon's "niche" so enticing. Just look at the Slugger, it got buffed to be usable and people were taking it against bots and doming the shit out of devastators because it had a lot of power(stagger) and good range and demolition power that could break container doors. What did Arrowhead do? Nerf the hell out of it because "people were using it as a sniper rifle" nerfed every aspect of the weapon and now nobody uses it. They could have just increase the damage falloff of the weapons range and still kept its unique properties of breaking containers and huge stagger, but they didnt. They nerfed all of that so now its barely got any range, it has no demolition power and it has no stagger so enemies just shrug off a massive slug slamming into them with the force of a train and just tickles them now. And dont even get me started on the Eruptor. People were having so much fun with the "shrapnel gun" (me included, it replaced the dominator for me and allowed me to take the HM and HMG as primaries and used my Eruptor like a secondary) and they nerfed not once, but twice and its so bad that its killed an entire warbond. The Democratic Detonation warbond was so good because of the eruptor and grenade pistol. and after the nerfs to the crossbow, eruptor and the adjudicator still being garbage, the only thing good about that warbond is the grenade pistol and its not worth $10 just for that sidearm.
Third, a player should be able to solo helldive. I dont always have friends online and sometimes I dont want to deal with people (or bad random players) and I just want to do my own weapon testing or farming for supercreds. A good player should be able to play the game solo even on the highest difficulties. You should not get to dictate to me how I am allowed to have fun in a game that I purchased. I want it to obviously still be a challenge, but I dont want the game to be a miserable experience for people who like to lone wolf/rambo this game. Its because of lone wolf players that we even found out about the PS5 damage bug and the DOT damage not working. Its because of solo players that we found out that stratagems like Orbital 120mm/380mm/Walking Barrage arent random but patterned. Players should be able to solo dive at any difficulty, and trying to balance the game to remove a particular playstyle because it doesnt fit your vision for the game is not just short sighted, but entirely detrimental to the player experience.
Nobody reading all that
I wish the eruptor wasnt gutted so hard its became unusable after becoming my favorite weapon when it first dropped which is confusing because they said the changes would actually be a buff when that is clearly not the case I went from being able to 1 shot stalkers to it usually taking 3 shots with sometimes 2 with how slow the firerate is, its just totally unusable now cant one shot bile spewers anymore either
I know it was considered strong but ive gone from being able to use my favorite weapon to literally not being able to use it at all at high difficulties if I want to win
So long as they don't nerf Hole Sealing and Factory detonations Eruper is still one of my top picks.
With respect, one-shotting stalkers and bile spewers sounds really imbalanced for a primary weapon. Unless, maybe, it’s a shotgun at point blank range.
@@GGBlaster its an explosive sniper with a super low firerate and is slow to turn and aim, so that was literally the only thing it was good at.
(you also cant use it if they get too close to you since you will kill yourself)
not even worth using it on the medium frontal plate armor enemies now the gun is just totally unusable in any situation
@@GGBlaster idk man, if u think it’s to strong and want a challenge then don’t use it? Why not let the casuals have fun with it? It is a game after all, the point in it is to have fun. It was fun pre nerf. Now many people will probably never touch it.
@@propelledgaming9441exactly
hope you guys enjoy this very different style of video from me about helldivers 2. I absolutely love this game and the studio that made it, and I really just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys about what I think is an extremely important topic.
love to hear your own thoughts in the comments
Ok. Buffs do lead to power creep and all... But these nerfs have the opposite effect. The nerfs are too hard. They've been nerfing guns and stratagems, and buffing enemies to the point where the fun has dropped off drastically.
yea none of my friends have played since last nerf. And I am pretty sure they wont return, as there is lots of games out there. People have a limited amount of time to play. I am pretty sure they should have released better and more diverse weapons and armour with each warbond, not releasing same pathetic crap with diffrent skins. If people mostly use one or two primary guns, is it because the others suck............fix the other guns
I’m lvl 30, play on difficulty 6, and the game still pisses me off. Total bullshit cop out to claim buffs “make the game too easy” and then “players will quit cuz it’s too easy” like the dev already alluded to, they can easily add more higher difficulties to the game to add to the challenge. Didn’t the first game have like 15 difficulties? As well as make more mission types that are harder to complete like the extract missions. The game a big closed loop system the balance works in tandem like a cog in the machine. For instance they increased spawn patrols which lead to more chaotic game play hence more enemies. More enemies added soft nerf to the guns, now with weak guns we have to shoot more enemies, with less ammo, and less ammo means weaker guns as a whole because you require more ammo to deal with the extra enemy output. Thus soft nerfing the guns through straining the ammo economy further. This game has no ceiling with how hard they can make it you think we’re just stuck with helldive difficulty? The increased patrol spawns just proved they can make the game more challenging in other ways besides having weak weapons.
As a whole the guns don’t feel good, I usually run the jar 5 dominator because I feel the least useless with it for bots and bugs. I want to play with other weapons but quickly get discouraged by how useless they feel. Now I am for nerfing if it makes sense like adding extra cool down to the quasar makes total sense the advantage of unlimited ammo and not needing to reload or have a back pack is HUGE benefit. I wish the guns in their classes had more uniformity like the rail gun was strong and needed a small nerf and the dev said something like “it was the strongest sniper in the game” ok well if it was being used and functioned like a one then change it to be one make it have a scope, no reticle, make ergonomics worse and have it be the energy version of the anti-material rife. They mad that the gun was soo easy to use AND powerful they could have re classed it as a sniper like they re classed changed the adjudicator. Make it behave like ppl are using it. There are other ways to balance weapons besides damage buffs.
I legit got so sick and tired of the devs’ constant meddling with the weapons that I stopped playing the game since a couple of weeks ago, and the reason why people gravitate toward a handful of “meta” builds is solely due to how most weapons in the game are just mid to useless. I honestly think their head of balancing has to step down from his position.
You absolutely speak from my heart and got it to the point. Yes, weapon nerfs are sometimes necessary! We _want_ the challenging gameplay, we _want_ teamplay, we want build variation! Even if it hurts if some weapon gets nerfed too much (maybe temporarily). I believe your assessment that Arrowhead is a rather small studio is a good explanation for some improperly balanced weapons. That said, many weapons are now fully viable: the blitzer is great, the plasma punisher feels great, the laser cannon is super, the recoilless rifle feels better than ever, the quasar has a good spot in the game, the scythe makes fun, and and and... I really hope Helldivers will have a stable and large community for a long time.
I do disagree with this take. I believe people see someone say "buff _______" and assume they want the weapon to be OP. I also think people see something as strong and assume it needs to be brought into line with things that are weak is a bad thing as well. The community has an issue with the balancing because its not balanced well. Nerfing something to be not usable on anything past 7 means the build diversity gets smaller, and the meta gets to be more important.
Buffing something and bringing it in line with something strong offers more diversity, but if you buff it for its use case can allow the weapon to keeps its identity but not be used for everything. Take the railgun as you used. Nobody was using it on low tier mobs, it wouldnt make sense to waste the ammo of something so good on a weak enemy.
The balancing that should have happened is cutting the ammo to 10 rounds instead of 20, and keeping the same exact damage and penetration but only in unsafe mode. This allows the weapon to be strong and still be "OP" BUT the catch is now you have to manage ammo better, and decide is it better to use shield backpack? Or go for ammo backpack. The weapon is completely viable, and it packs a punch like youd expect from a railgun, but the player has to think how do i want to build to use this weapon? Or do i want to build to survive until i can call a ressuply every 3 minutes?
These are the types of balance changes that arrowhead SHOULD be doing. These types of changes dont nerf a weapon into being useless, and everybody getting upset. While i never played HD1, i know that the game had a LOT of broken things in it. I have a friend who would tell me all about the broken weapons, and how they could kill strong enemies in seconds. And they werent strategems they were just plain weapons. The devs are balancing incorrectly, and I know changes for a bunch of the heavy weapons, and if i thought about it, even for strategems that could make them viable but not busted, without a simple, heres damage all done. Of course some things could use damage buffs, but only small ones and theyd be viable.
We are not asking for OP weapons.
We are asking for options when it comes to loadouts.
Vs bugs: Incendiary breaker, sickle, Dominator, Punisher, plasma 1, and pummeler.
Vs bots: Dominator, plasma 1, counter sniper, and pummeler with shield.
What was the point of nerfing the crossbow, the eruptor, and the slugger?
I play a lot of solo Helldive, and now my loadouts are just the same. I would like to use a DMR or an AR, but they suck compared to the meta.
Nobody is asking for OP weapons; it’s just that the balance changes don’t make too much sense to me.
are you asking for options when it comes to loadouts for squads of 3-4 on mid to mid-high difficulties or are you asking for options when it comes to loadouts for solo helldives?
cos ul never get it re: the latter. That'd be like trying to drive a family car in an f1 race. And trying to balance the game with this in mind would make every soldier a 1-man army and would thus break the game.
and for the former.. there are already a TONNE of options. I'd wager basically every single item has its value.
@@Mogz-hd i had more options b4 balance that the ones i have now regardless of format
I agree with you completely that they are doing balancing wrong, I however, think your reasoning is off.
First, they DON'T listen to their player base properly if at all on balancing of weapons, look at the eruptor if you don't believe me. They nerf what's used more than others to try and alter the 'meta' to be everything. Railgun needed to get hit with a nerf cause it was ORIGINALLY too much, now it's barely if at all used. This is true for almost anything that HAS been nerfed in a significant way, I'm not looking at 3 bullets on the breaker, I'm looking at gutting the power of the railgun, taking the eruptor's 15 mags and making it 6, etc.
Second, the player base playtesting the weapons is perfectly fine. This is true for nearly all games that have anything similar to an MMO experience. CSGO, Rainbow 6 Siege are both PVP games where this happens on the regular. That is going to be the standard for any MMO or large scale multiplayer title as frankly you and I would spend more time with our favorite gun in likely 2 weeks than a QA would be given the chance to prior to launching it. Short of having a QA team the larger than a Walmart's staff list, it would be impossible for that not to be the case. Thus we will find how the weapon is broken more easily than they can.
Third, the problem with their balance team is that they don't understand that when you nerf a hammer, it's not supposed to be turned into a paper weight because they nerfed it by removing the handle and leaving the hammer head. The base identity and general function is supposed to be retained otherwise you've released something that's COMPLETELY different day 1 as opposed to what it is later. I reference these 2 weapons a lot, as what's been done to them is pretty huge, but the railgun barely works on heavies now and almost anything else is a better option which is what a high penetration weapon is SUPPOSED to be for, and the Eruptor barely AOE's anymore, meaning the long range squad support sniper is far less viable with bullet time, lethality on hit, and AOE all being nerfed. The Eruptor is, at this point, a VERY slow firing marksman rifle that will have a much higher time to kill a target than most other options. I know it was encroaching on the AMR's territory, and the AMR is technically a stratagem so it's supposed to be better, but honestly, buffing the AMR to work like an Eruptor with better punch through or faster bullet travel times would have been much better than ripping out half the bullet's effectiveness AND dropping the ammo count to a point where your hoarding ammo like a drug addict.
I also believe that saying stratagems should be the focus is a bad place to sit overall, as they are once per 4 minutes of your gameplay at best, where as your primary and secondary are YOUR LIFE as you leave the pod. If you can't fight what exist where your pod drop hit is a bad idea. For this reason, I honestly think they should consider Grenades your '5th stratagem', and buff the thermite grenade to take 1-2 to drop a tank or a charger. Make grenades a bit stronger than they are now, as that takes SOME of the pressure off the start of the mission randomly having 4 chargers and a bile titan on your drop site that didn't show a bug nest. Higher the difficulty, the higher the density of heavy armor, the worse these kinds of surprises can be pretty bad and create a death spiral at the beginning of a mission devouring your reinforcements. This example, is why I don't think you can actually focus on '1 piece' of the pie, and have to look at the whole, determine the purpose or intended purpose of each piece of gear, and balance from there based on purpose. The mission statement of the weapon should be it's description, so if something says 'brings down even devastators with ease' it better do it, be that before nerfs or after, because the identity of the weapon is WRITTEN in the game's lore entry for the weapon. If it can't do it, it shouldn't say it.
Buffing everything, I agree, is a bad idea. Difficulty is needed to keep it fresh, also agreed. Mixing your primary and stratagems to develop a kit that's generalist enough to deal with everything coming your way is a good thing to bring up. I think you do make some decent points, but I do think it's the wrong line of thinking overall to say they are 'treating it like a beta' by using our play information to balance weapons when literally everything that has multiple weapons and a multiplayer experience does that after getting out of beta and being out for 5 to 10 years.
I agree, shouldnt be all buffs. However, instead of looking and saying, "everyone is using weapon X, we need to nerf it its too powerful". Instead why is everyone using it? what makes it fun and implement that into the others. I would first make a series of Videos to play in the ship promoting each weapon, general brasch series, explaining its particular area of expertise. And every weapon should have one. This will let players know how to use it and also if it doesnt stand up to expectations on the said purpose, the devs can focus on bufffing it. Nobody wants 200 weapon choices but only a handful actually work. you have many things you can tweak. Actual damage, stopping power, reload, time to fire, recoil. They can add faction specific things also. biologic that hurts bugs but not bots, make the bugs mutate to be immune to electricity, thereby rendering electric for bots.... etc. too many weapons are not good. period. same can be said about stratagems. They should use their data, find what is not being used, and fix those first. THEN nerf if you feel something is too powerful.
I love when youtubers try to speak for the whole. If all the guns were on par with buffs then it wouldn't change difficulty cause there are still people who cant solo. Plus devs would just increase spawns. They did it in HD1. Buff the guns and stop saying stupid stuff thats easily fixable. They continue to release content like they are and no one is gonna disappear
yeah but... there are " the breaker kill bosses in 0.5 second " kind of nerf
and " we're nerfing weapons making them less fun " problem i think is not that peoples are not enjoying the nerf because what they nerfed was the identity of the gun ( Exemple : eruptor no shrapnell because too much friendly fire )
I have a single rule for loadouts: 1 weapon that's good against armor and 1 that's good at crowd control.
Everything else should be chosen based on the type of mission and enemy.
And if you have a full squad you can even divide tasks (i.e. you bring the weapons, you use turrets, you call strikes) instead of everyone being a jack of all trades.
i have the same basic rule yeh works very well
For some reason people think that when someone's asking for buffs they think they're asking for easy wins. People simply want weapons to feel good. The Breaker was "OP" in comparison to the other shotguns ... which had so many things lacking, of course the full-auto shotgun with 15 rounds is gonna be good. I'm just asking for weapons to feel like HD1.
It’s not that people think you’re asking for things to be OP. It’s that, if we only ever buff existing equipment to match the current meta, we put ourselves in a gradual power creep.
The goal is to get players to enjoy the full range of weapons, armor and stratagems the game has to offer; not just a select few. If one thing is seen as better than everything else, it’s generally better to nerf the one thing than to buff everything else. If one thing is seen as worse than everything else, it’s generally better to buff that one thing than to nerf everything else. (Emphasis on “generally”)
Exactly not op just feel good. That requires significant play testing
@@GGBlaster I very much doubt that. In HD1 we could destroy even the highest ranking enemy in the same way that they could one shot us. The only difference is there's 4 of us and 100000s of them. We have to survive, they don't have to care. All you need is one but to get a good shot and that's it. Dead. I want HD1 guns. Not asking for buffing things to the moon.
@GGBlaster while power creep is a thing, there are ways around power creep too. If you are smart with your balancing and changes then the game can be fun, avoid power creep, be rewarding, and feel better to play, while offering more load outs. While I agree shield needed to be nerfed, it was too OP. It is a strategem that will never not be OP because of its inherent nature of being a regenerating shield. That alone already makes it the best backpack in the game. To this day post nerf it is the best backpack. Mind you I don't run it, I run the ammo backpack.
Here are some examples of ways to balance the game for some of the heavy weapons without adjusting damage on most of the weapons.
The machine guns could get a face shield that covers the head and upper chest allowing players to tank lower mobs (typically on bots) and clear them as those weapons are intended. It's a small change that can allow for a big change on usage because it offers a slight bit of defence. Make it to where it can block a melee attack to the head so you don't basically get one shot and viella it would be great on bugs for that purpose too.
Railgun could get an ammo reduction to 10 shots, give it pre nerf capabilities but only in unsafe mode. What does this do? It allows for a powerful hit, the lack of ammo makes it to where now do you opt for ammo pack or shield pack? Ammo pack allows you to use it more freely but you are more opt to die due to having less "health." While shield pack gives more "health" you have to be more precise with shots, and you have to use it when you have no other options or are being pressured too much. This also rewards high skill ceilings by managing the heat on the gun, as well as offering more diversity based on the players own decisions.
Flamethrower with a slowing effect or the range that hilks have would make it an awesome dot weapon with the still possibility of killing yourself. There was a bug causing the host to kill a charger in 4 seconds that I believe was patched. But a bug making a weapon busted isn't the players fault. I think either of these changes would keep the danger of the weapon while balancing it to be worth it to run
@@GGBlasterjust those 3 examples I explained allow the game to be adjust/changed to feel better, allow for other builds, the guns would be more fun causing the players to enjoy it, but it doesn't minimize the enemies, nor does it say "give this 300 extra damage so that it can compete with this." It keeps the identity of the weapon and what it is intended for, but makes it viable.
And if the power creep starts to happen, why can't the devs buff the enemies? They buffed spawn rates to be what they were intended from the start, they took away bile titans stagger, there are ways to buff enemies to allow them to compete with power creep as well
Its a PvE game. Balancing isn't needed. Fun is needed.
1. Not everyone has a cohesive team to play with, and most players drop into random quickplays. 2. There is no in-game mechanism to encourage team loadout cohesion (they could introduce a quick pre game strategy table where everyone has to submit a load out for a vote/discussion on the highest level. 3. Remove solo play if you can't balance the game around it. 4. Most of the nerfs have been to weps that were not game breaking and made zero sense (IE Incendiary Breaker got buffed to the point it is now more powerful than the pre-nerf regular breaker ever was. I could name a dozen of these examples. 5. The nerfs were a response to bugs in the game that had nothing to do with the weapons themselves (fix your game to a proper baseline then balance.
You're spot on. Perhaps the developers need to remember that they have a vision for the game and that there is a time and place for listening to the community.
If weapons were properly balanced before release, we wouldn't have this issue, as "favourites" wouldn't be getting "nerfed".
The usage of the terms "nerf" and "buff" is incredibly derivative, when there is much more to the process than just those ends of the spectrum.
People have complained that there's a lack of a "power fantasy". To that, I would tell them to play an ARPG, such as Diablo. Helldivers is about pulling together, completing the mission and hopefully extracting. It's about those moments when you make it through and near impossible situation due to strong teamwork and a huge helping of luck.
The argument that buffs are bad can be countered with: just make harder difficulties. The game gets frustrating when picking an off-meta loadout makes the difficulty feel like it went up 3 tiers.
I just want HD1 in the third person, the feel of clawing against overwhelming odds
THIS!
If I am chosen to make the weapon balancing I'll choose to make loadouts for helldivers to slay the enemies of democracy.
Like shield generator center loadout, grenade launcher for egg/bug hole cleaning
Not just on damage numbers
They can used the D&D mechanism to balance the weapons, but don't nerf the op weapons brutally.
you just admitted the weapon is over powered, why should it not be brought in line with what its supposed be?
To be completely fair, this is how real weapons are tested too. They're handed to small specialized groups who put them through basic trials, then if they pass those trials, they're handed out to troops in the field for more realistic feedback. Because the testing that 1000 people do will never match what a million will do.
We also have so many effective weapons already, so it's not breaking anything to release a gun that's a bit off.
Another issue is people don't go test weapons in both sectors, they don't test the various rates of fire, for example, the tenderizer is a bit crap against bugs. But on burst, (since it's clearly emulating the halo battle rifle) against the bots, it's great! Sure, I'd rather bring my adjudicator, but I can make them both work in a pinch. Because I'm aiming my shots and select the my targets carefully.
On the point about stratagems being front and center, I have to say it seems actively hostile to the players that so many of the mission modifiers directly target your ability to use them effectively. Longer cooldowns, more orbital scatter, one less slot, longer calldown times. And as for environmental effects, don't even get me started on ion storms.
These modifiers arguably force you to make different choices about which stratagems to rely on, but there aren't enough different options to cover the things you really need stratagems for. Taking increased cooldowns for example, this nudges me away from longer baseline cooldowns and toward comparable options where the percentage increase doesn't hit them quite as hard. Think 500kg vs orbital precision. Except that the 500kg is one of the most reliable options for a bile titan, so most people just eat the cooldown increase.
Plus, you can roll an op with both longer cooldowns and higher scatter. Higher scatter makes the precision strike nigh useless, pushing you toward the railcannon. Except, woops, it has a huge cooldown that gets slapped hard by a percentage increase.
Combo effects like this push you to rely more on AT support weapons that aren't hit by the cooldown hammer unless you die and get called in halfway across the map, and don't have any scattering problems. But you were likely bringing one of those anyway, because this planet might just be the charger and titan homeworld today.
1:37 I'd actually be a lot less hard on the Devs if this is their attitude. Hey guys, we did our best balancing, but we want you to test this gun for us, and your feedback would be greatly appreciated. I believe that what you've said is half true. I believe that the devs balance a weapon and something happens that they don't expect. Without checking to see if there is a bug, they start messing with stats to get the gun to perform the way they want to. They make these changes and get insanely defensive and antagonistic when players question them. Then they realize there is a bug and they try to slowly and grudgingly fix it.
i just want them to make the crossbow good, then i'll be happy
Not a very democratic choice for efficiently spreading freedom, it's almost like you want the bugs to win 🔫🤔
I mean… it is a crossbow. Did you really expect it to outclass ballistic firearms?
I miss my original railgun haven't used it because it sucks now
@@darrylnewman292it doesn't suck. you just want easy mode.
@@Jhunta nope it sucks there's so many better stratagems to use besides that they Nerf it into the ground why would you use the rail gun when you have the quasar Cannon
Thought you made some great points about AH and their goals. Overall their balancing has been mostly spot on. As someone who playtests mods, devs have different priorities when getting stuff to work and players will break it in less time than it takes the devs to make it. Dunno if they view players as their primary testers but it hardly matters when we outnumber them 100 to 1.
the Shield backpack and Railgun are Stratagems you need to input those codes to call them down, you can't just get out of the helldive pod with them, so you contradicted yourself there. the breaker should have a 20-round drum magazine it's the super earths AA-12 shotgun. if Helldivers are stratagems then why are the cooldowns so freaking long 210 second for a rail cannon strike and not every 70 seconds like EAT.
the reason the railgun was op is because of the cross-platform bugs that made it more powerful it might have been okay like the autocannon, but they won't revert it to find out.
Again, the following are STRATAGEMS you need to input codes to call them down: Railgun, Shield backpack, Stalwart machine gun, Machine gun, Heavy Machine Gun, Airburst Rocket, Quazar Cannon, EAT, Spear, Autocannon, and grenade launcher.
but you and the devs will just lump them in with the primaries, secondaries and grenades you can start out with.
the devs word is not worth shit when they say we need to rely on stratagems and then treat and nerf them into the ground like they are basic weapons. the arc thrower used to stunlock hulks then the destroyer of games Alexus buffed the hulks stager resistance the arc thrower should get its 50 meter range back then.
and then they make scout striders more resistant to explosive damage making them liars in the polar patriates trailer where they showed it one shotted the scout strider this buff also nerfed the eagle cluster bomb, air burst rocket and grenade launcher but according to you and the devs we should be able to rely on those but we can't now because of the balance devs and their whimsical balance aproach.
im confused… how are you saying i contradicted myself re stratagems?
@@Mogz-hd first clarify what are stratagems supposed to be in the game are they supposed to be good or not? what's your stance on them.
@@Mogz-hd here is the thing I have only played helldivers 2 that's it and the cooldowns on the stratagems are way too long to build a habit of relying on them. there is also the fact that this game is 3rd person and not top down like the rest of their games so there is going to be differences in the experience.
"Are they supposed to be good or not"... i dont really understand this question. All weapons and stratagems in helldivers are not supposed to be "good" or "not good".. theyr supposed to have utility.
the helldiver chooses a weapon and stratagem for their unique/specific utility, which is then combined with other items in their loadout to create an arsenal that has the desired effect on the battlefield. This capability will be limited and will have shortcomings in certain areas, which will then be offset by the loadouts/capabilities of their teammates.
thats my view, and i believe that is the intention of arrowhead.
my guess is that arrowhead are at least somewhat balancing AGAINST solo-helldive players. If players are using a loadout to easily solo-helldive.. they'll likely balance to remove that capability or at least severely reduce its effectiveness.
@@Mogz-hd okay yeah makes sense. from what I have seen they have made some changes from the top down to the 3rd person that makes that allot harder to do, like knowing weak points when there weren't any in the first one.
one of the problems I have is one of the devs said that the weapons you start out with in the pod should be weaker then stratagems so nerfing the rail gun and the shield generator pack makes no sense to me. we are supposed to use stratagems to deal with big threats and they made it so the rail gun is no longer effective in doing so. they shouldn't be treating weapon stratagems like the primaries, but they do for some reason.
I just want them to fix the spawns, it used to feel like the world was alive when you would come across a patrol. Now the patrols walk towards and even if you use stealth to sneak past them at least one bot or bug goes to your exact position. Not to mention the more objectives you do, the more enemies spawn. This is fine ig but what I don’t understand is why this also applies to destroying fabricators and or bug holes. It gets to the point to where a patrol can spawn in every 10 seconds when you complete all objectives. Instead of having a strategy or plan it turns into I have to do everything in 20 minutes otherwise I get rolled. I usually just play helldive in a duo or trio format. Seeing as the spawns are the same for all groups of players it makes sense to do helldive with 4 people, but that kinda makes the game boring when you have 3 other people with you. As for the guns, they just need to give each one a role or purpose. The liberator concussive just got replaced with polar patriot smg, the liberator penetrator got replaced with the adjudicator. The new polar patriot rifle has no place since the liberator does everything better except for recoil, and if you can’t control the recoil for the base liberator, you probably can’t control any recoil in the game in general. I could go on but i think you get the point. Also to whoever reads this, thanks for listening to my yap session.
The rail gun was nerfed because of a bug that the devs didn't acknowledge it wasn't overpowered
Again.....
It wasn't nerfed for that, the devs did a blog literally explaining why they nerfed it.
The reason they nerfed it is because the weapon was being used at max capacity without the need of using unsafe mode, you could kill all the enemies and do everything the weapon offers without having the need to change to unsafe mode and charge the weapon to a point where it can blow up in your hands. What is the reason of a weapon with an unsafe mode and a mechanic that tells you to charge the weapon but with the risk of a explosion if you charge it too much, when you never have to go above 50% charge for anything?
That is why they nerfed the scaling of the penetration of the charge to make the Railgun user to have to charge the weapon at +90% charge if he wanted to reach max efficiency, so there you was close to blownup the weapon, you played with the risk factor of the weapon and you had to really take profit of the unsafe charge mechanic.
Stop spreading false information dude
@@muglokdecrepitus1301 it was one tapping bile titans in unsafe mode because of a bug. Everyone understands the need to make the primary use of the weapon in unsafe mode. It was wildly over picked becof the 1 tap bug and the fact the game was poorly balanced and nothing else killed chargers and bile titans easily, now you have 3 anti-tank weapons that 1 tap chargers and 2 tap bile titans with incredible ease. Plus the rail gun never lost it’s ability to two tap strip the armor off a chargers leg.
@@jasonbowker9937 I wrote my whole comment without talking about Bile Titans or the part of the Playstation bug, and my comment remains the same.
For the way that the Railgun was initially in the game you didn't had to do use of the overcharging feature of the weapon, you could do everything just from the safe mode, and that is the reason the weapon got nerfed, to make people have to use the unsafe mode to be able to get max efficiency and to penetrate heavy armour. And people stop using it because they had to put additional work and skill on it, because the Bile titan PS5 bug was still there in the same way, that part didn't changed after the nerf.
Also, that's what you said about that there weren't other options to deal with chargers and bile titans in that moment is completely false. The way of dealing with bile titans is exactly the same, 2 rockets in the face with EAT or RR. And to deal with chargers they added that we can one tap them, but it isn't like before it was incredibly hard to deal with them, you just had to use one rocket in the leg and then use your main weapon to shoot them for 1 second to kill the charger. You mention it like before we had no option and now we have a lot of options when the only difference is having to use 1 additional second to shoot the charger in the exposed leg
People weren't using other things that weren't the Railgun not because there were options in the game, but because the Railgun was just superior to everything else, but the options were there and were practically the same that is now, just with a little extra step to do
Buffing and nerfing weapons left a right will always garner controversy. I've seen some people say that since this is a PVE only game, there should be no nerfs, only buffs, and I can't disagree more. They want to make sure weapons are working as they should. That being said, I do agree with you that maybe AH doesn't have the staff it needs to really playlets the changes they make. Great video
Slugger is a good example of nerfed fun. It was cool and unusual that the slugger could open crates. I could get on board with the stagger need I guess but the fact that they took away its door opening capabilities was always fun and a unique reason to bring it. It was not op and it was still taken away.
yeh.. kindve agree really. I used to really enjoy using the slugger.. after nerf its kindve useless imo. hav never bothered running it since
You lost me at railgun and breaker being massively OP. They were not, everything else was just shit due to other issues.
Shield backpack having been OP I agree with.
all 3 items were the obvious best choice on every single mission without exception. i know cos i hated using them and hated myself for using them…. but i still used them!
You have no case on railgun not being op. In it's original state it had the ergo of an assault rifle, no damage drop or compensation at range, ripped through every enemy in the game while having more rounds then the heavy busting things like recoiless with out needing a backpack. It made 80% of other weapons useless without even switching it off safe mode. You could solo helldive with a railgun and a pistol.
The breaker was pretty similar sure it didn't kill heavies like hulks/charger/tank/titan but it made everything else not stand a chance getting near you terminid side, even stalkers. It's only downside was if you got kinda unlucky with others taking all the ammo. It needed to be made weaker not neccesarily damage but less ammo in line with other shotguns, more spread, damage fall off at distance etc.
Sorry but continuosly ruining fun for the core gamer [which is not someone who plays all day or makes videos for it] is going to just continue to kill this game down to 20k players. People already have a bad taste because of Sony.
Look, it's a co-op game, I like that they are using players to test the weapons. Do you really think they didn't know how many team kills the Airburst Rocket would do?? They were laughing the whole time like we were. It's funny!
I get what you mean with the stratagems being the focal point of helldivers. I take 3 stratagems to deal with heavies (orbital rail cannon, 500kg or eagle airstrike and quasar) and 1 for either a shield or orbital laser if I have a partner who can give me a shield a few mins in. On higher difficulties there’s so many titans you need those tools to deal with them. It’s the chaff that is the issue, which you need a good primary to handle. So if we use the stratagems for the heavies like they want by design, we don’t have anything for chaff w no primary. Or are we supposed to use stratagems for chaff too? Might as well just give us 6 stratagems and no weapons at that point then. And no, you can’t rely on random teammates to do anything. Sometimes they do sometimes they don’t but my load out is and always will be an ‘army of 1’ load out
"And no, you can’t rely on random teammates to do anything. Sometimes they do sometimes they don’t but my load out is and always will be an ‘army of 1’ load out"
this right here is exactly the problem.
helldivers is designed to play played as a squad. People just aint playin it right if they 1-man-armying and running around solo. Its just... not how the game is supposed to be played.
so then the question becomes... Should arrowhead redesign their game to cater for players who are not playing it properly and therefore literally change something that is absolutely CORE to what makes helldivers 'Helldivers'. or... should they stay true to their original vision and hope the community catches up / catches on and adapts their playstyles.
I know which direction i'd go if it were my game.. and I'd go that direction even if it meant an ultimately smaller player base.
(i'd also put it this way... If the game is balanced around 1-man-army builds/playstyles, then it will by definition be unbalanced when played as a squad. and vice versa.. which is why solo-helldive-capable players should be very much the extreme exception. And yeh again, i know which i'd rather balance the game around)
@@Mogz-hd oh to clarify the reason I do that is because my team mates leave me a lot of the time lol. I’ll stick with them to an objective and be defending it or whatever and next thing you know two of them are gone and the other one went rogue from the start so now I feel like I need to have a kit that gives me the ability to easily handle chargers (stun grenade + quasar headshot), chaff and titans. Luckily I do play w a team mate most of the time so they bring flamethrower and are more chaff focused. But solo w randoms is a mess like 75% of the time lol. The best games I’ve ever had is where we all stick together as 4 and steamroll over every objective, and give each other back packs and stuff. That’s only happened maybe a few times where the team is all on the same page. Prob just need to find people to play w and use a mic lol but normally I just wanna queue w my one friend and play lol
"oh to clarify the reason I do that is because my team mates leave me a lot of the time lol."
lol yeh, i feel your pain. I spend most missions chasing my damn teammates around.
and yeh im the same bro - mostly just wana play with my 1 or 2 mates, n we always stick together the whole time.
I agree with most of the things you say, I feel like saying everyone clearing solo helldive even during the breaker and railgun meta was not even remotely the case. I would be interested to see what percentage of players were clearing helldive solo without the PS5 one tap glitch with the railgun. Just because you have a handful of players that can pull off crazy solo runs with these weapons doesn't make them the rule, and nerfing these weapons as hard as they did just to stop a small amount of talented players is a bit rough I feel.
I don't mind the nerfs, what I mind is them gutting weapons and making them unusable when there are already unusable primaries and strategems. How about we work on fixing what's broken first so we have other options
While i agree on the sentiment of the “no nerfing in pve” crowd being misguided I think this is the wrong approach for the devs. I get it’s a hard position: you can either make it meh on release and buff it later which underwhelms players on the idea of new warbonds or: you can make it strong on release and then nerf it which also underwhelms players to the idea of new warbonds. But this philosophy of getting players to use other weapons by nerfing the ones they like is completely misguided. If you buff weapons players will naturally gravitate towards them as long as they enjoy shooting it. You don’t need to nerf their favorite gun to make them use another all that’s going to do is piss them off and many will continue to use their beloved weapon even if it is nerfed. Make weapons good and I promise people will use other guns too.
Also I don’t think weapons like the slugger were overpowered. They were good, if the other weapons were even decent at clearing enemies I would see people using them at least rarely but I don’t.
On the topic of this being a team-play game: yes and no, this isn’t helldivers one where you’re forced to stay on screen with your teammates, a lot of people like to split off and complete objectives quicker and how many times do you see people making callouts on open mic or team reloading? Hardly ever. This is a game about gunplay first and foremost, not cooperation and you can see that by just playing in matches with randoms. Sure they have mechanics that reflect elements of team-play but that does not make it a team-play game when most of the time you’re not going to be making use of actual team-play. Just with the nature of the game you’re forced to take up positions that could be very far from your team. Chased by a swarm of Terminids you can’t exactly just run back to your team or stay with them with how enemy pathing works.
People asking for only buffs are definitely new to hard games
0:55 this isn’t new to software development. I won’t speak for Arrowhead’s playtesting, or whether or not they do it. But the only true way to see how something works is to see its practical application over a larger sample group.
Run all the tests, play tests, debug sessions you want; your end users are guaranteed to discover something you haven’t.
Of course balancing weapons/items/systems based on player experience (and depending on players to discover bugs etc) is and has been a done thing in the gaming industry for a long time.. nothing wrong with it. The problem in this case is the EXTENT to which arrowhead are relying on players to test the weapons. When players can pick up a new weapon, use it for 30 seconds, and immediately determine that its an absolute pile of junk compared to everything else in the game... thats indicative of a massive problem with in-house playtesting.
@@Mogz-hd Well, does 30 seconds really do a weapon justice? I get that sometimes it really is a pile of junk, but these are 15-40 minute missions, with either bots or bugs as your enemies. If something is trash against bots, it could potentially be better against bugs, and vice versa.
Of course, I’m not going to vouch for Arrowhead’s playtesting. As a smaller studio, it’s entirely feasible that they simply don’t have the resources to properly test new content AND keep up the pace of new content development. And it’s also possible that they aren’t doing their due diligence - I don’t have 24hr surveillance to say what they do with their working day. There’s likely some organizational changes they could make to improve that, and they likely would benefit from hiring on a few more team members, given how unprepared any small studio would be for a massive success like HD2.
@@GGBlaster "As a smaller studio, it’s entirely feasible that they simply don’t have the resources to properly test new content AND keep up the pace of new content development."
couldnt agree more!
I dont mind the player base being used as guinea pigs for balance testing, so long as the devs do it in character. So weapons are never nerfed, Super Earth just switched to a superior provider. (The cheapest bidder.)
I kinda hope that someday they can introduce temporary flaws to weapons to represent problems in the supply chain. (You lost that planet. The scope on the AMR is no longer accurate until you get it back. Pay 1000 credits to bribe the ship mainance tech to fix it for you?)
I really don't care whether they buff or nerf weapons. I want the possibility to try out as many different builds as possible.
Many of the buffs have actually made that possible.
However some of the nerfs (looking at you eruptor) have been hit so hard with the nerf bat that they instead have removed the possibility for a number of builds. Many other devs when they nerf something they change seemingly pretty small variables.
5-10% dpm nerf.
Increase or decrease bullet spread slightly.
That sorta thing.
The Arrowhead (Alexus....) way.
Railgun: -No, nope. To strong. Let's turn it into a mere shadow. A bb-gun. That should do it.
2-3 buffs later and it's almost back to full power again.
Breaker: -Cut the ammo pool and increase the recoil hard.
4 months later. "What do you mean no one is using the breaker. We nerfed the crap out of it so people would like it as much as the other weapons. What do you mean they only use the incidiary breaker?".
Eruptor: -Nope, way to strong (ok I can agree with them here).
-Cut the ammo pool by half. Remove about 30% of its dpm and kill the one thing that makes it unique, it's shrapnel aoe.
- uhm... Ok? Anything else?
- Yeah. Buff some enemies.
This isn't balancing. It's honestly sheer stupidity. Especially when dealing with a PvE game.
I think the game should teach players a bit more about the strengths of each weapons by giving more info on stats. This could help prevent people from ingoring many weapons that feel bad to use only because they don’t know how to use the weapon
Why everyone say arrowhead are a "small" team?
Facepunch are a team of merely 50, they made one of the most QoL games I've ever played. With large content patch every month
Arrowhead are roughly 100! And made one of the least QoL games I have ever played
The problem here is this game ia early access but they don't want to admit it.
I have to respectfully disagree a bit here. I get your points on gameplay and strategems. But 'teamplay' isn't always about 4 guns vs 1 bug = victory, sometimes one person is doing the mission, the other is reloading and two of you are holding the horde... maybe your defending and you all need to hold a corner, 4 direction enemies means you have to hold by yourself. If you main weapon can't handle YOUR PART, you are deadweight to 'the team'. Stategems have an average cooldown of 2 minutes. If I have to wait 2 minutes everytime to be combat effective, then my main weapon is what? A fancy taser till my next stategem? with only 4 slots, a mission (sometimes less) and if I want a backpack and a support, I'm lucky to have one good stategem, Never mind grabbing a situational one like gas or railgun. Not to mention, good teamplay is dependent on a team you know and communicate with, 90% of the community works with random matchups, that they don't talk to, and have no coordination. if you HAVE a team of 3 friends you talk to and play, you should be wiping the floor with the higher difficulties cause you are the equivalent of a 'elite team'. The rest of us, would like to at least be able to enjoy ourselves with subpar teams. Absolutely in favour of buffs and nerfs as a mix, but their 'balance' is outa balance
well yes I actually come across the problem of trying to figure out a loadout for the bugs cuz before I only did automatos with penetrating liberator thing and autocannon and a bunch of explosive eagle for the fabricators. then with the bugs I had to shoot a lot with rarely any ammo to find around so I decided to use laser weapons but they don't kill chargers of titans so I went for 500kg and orbital laser to deal with these.
I still think that helldive difficulty is really easy and I'd like a 10th difficulty or something
If they didn't make all these changes, what content would you have to upload to RUclips?
lol this is the first vid of this type iv ever uploaded. and id prefer they never made changes to weapons cos it invalidates all my old weapon reviews
If we leave aside all the baseless cries of the community and all the people who repeat that the only thing Arrowhead has done is nerfing just for repeating it, and we really look at the data, we see that:
The weapons/stratagems of the game just have received 11 nerfs in its whole 3 months life, and from those 11 nerfs just 4 has really affected the weapons, thise being the Railgun nerf, the Slugger nerf (which is still good), the Crossbow weurd rework, and th Eruptor nerf that was done due to a bug, the real nerf was tyw first one that let the weapon in.really good spot.
The weapons/stratagems that got buffed has been +32, of which approximately 23 has passed from being unused to being used and great weapon/stratagems to pick
If we compare the numbers of weapons were decent to use on the release of the game with ehich ones are decent to use now, we can see that we have won a lot of possibilities and weapon to use
agree. game is moving in the right direction re: balance for sure.
The game should be difficult with normal/weak primary. We are cannon fodder we access to the real firepower from the destructor. That is the core idea of the game. You can even feel it and know it in the tutorial
thats right. we are lemmings fighting for our survival down there. we have to use all of the weapons at our disposal in perfect harmony with our teammates and our destroyer in order to even stand a chance of surviving and succeeding in our missions
I appreciate this video a lot. I don’t think every balance change they’ve made is great. But I do truly believe in the Co-op nature of this game having to be the top priority. It is designed to function as a co-op game.
glad to hear it bro! :)
I am ok with nerfing and buffing. But the recent nerf of crossbow and eruptor are unjustified.
Honestly none of this would be an issue if the gunplay was good, and it simply isnt. Maybe the weird assist aiming eratir bubble croshair works well on console, but on PC is trash. Enemies have all these weakspots but getting to consistently hit those weakspots is a pain. Weapons doing less dmg would be tolerable if you could actually shoot where you're aiming. Even the ADS mode is ridiculous with the crosshairs looking like x10 enlarged images.
For a shooter game, shooting game shouldnt be so unreliable.
Well said. Every time the devs nerf a weapon people complain that it's been "ruined" or that "this shouldn't happen in a PvE game" (?!) Lack of balance, for me took away from the replay value of HD1 (always the same loadouts when playing 'serious') so it's great they are focusing on this area with HD2. Even if they don't get every change perfect, the long term trend is towards a better game with more viable loadouts and playstyles, hopefully. I put about 300 hours into HD1 but with HD2 the sky is the limit..
The railgun needed a nerf when it was first released. IT was insane the things it would kill and how easily it would kill it. I think the railgun is in a pretty decent spot right now. And they should bring the trash guns up to that type of standard. No I don't mean everything should be able to kill hulks and Bile titans. They should be good at something specific. AKA breaker incen is good at clearing chaff. But it is absolutely trash with anything with armor pretty much. Which is completely okay. Erupter was great at armored targets but was super easy to be over run by the chaff units. THat is the type of buffing people are talking about. There are guns in the game that are just straight up trash. You struggle with anything with it kind of thing. People want to use more builds in the game instead of just the "meta". I personally try all kinds of stuff to see if it works. A lot of times it doesnt lol...
This game Is easier bc of the camera
You can't pretend that it'll be the same to balance así an isometric. Solo Helldive was hard, 8 shots of the railcannon sounds few, up until the point you recieve 5 Titans one after the other. Not Easy.
I don't agree with the nerfing part of this video.
Primarily because it's a pve game and their constantly buffing the enemies regularly.
So as far as the game getting to easy that's not happening.
And I agree that's a bad thing for the future of the game.
Buts that's not the case at all the enemies are getting hit point buffs and buffs to resistances to weapons quite regularly.
So there's no real need to nerf the weapons for sake of balance.
As a matter of fact their ruining the fun and strategy of the already challenging game.
Bu constantly changing the way these weapons work.
And always huge nerfs right before a new warbond like clockwork.
Example the hulk used to get stunned by ark thrower.
Which would kill it with like 12-14 hits not so easy surrounded by tons a of bots.
But would give a team using a strategy an opportunity to play crowd control.
With one stunning said hulk while others could move around to it's back side.
And attack it's weak point which is incredibly hard to do so if it's still moving regularly and surrounded by it's allies.
And with dropships constantly drop more bots it was a good strategy to combat the constant threat.
Not easy but fun and smart tactics now it just walks thru mist attacks leading to running and most likely dieing.
Don't buff a weapon to only nerf it later to try to get me to use other weapons.
It's aggravating and makes people not want to play as much
AH nailed the challenging part they don't need to keep uping that part while destroying the loadout players like to use.
That will also destroy the games future as well
The dive in players actually playing should be prove of that because there's been significant player loss due to this issue 🤷🤷.
I enjoy playing solo but also play with team. Weapon balancing stops the fun of the game, nerfing the weapons becomes an air soft BB gun. Give me an assortment of strong guns to play. Give me the opportunity to play solo. Keep the game fun. Don’t agree with the weapon balancing.
Welp, better try out a different franchise then.
I agree w/ yah in principle bud, _only buffs are not the way_ specially in a game where new weapons/stratagems are "constantly" being added, also too easy not fun, also the concept of requiring thought picking a combination of "tools" instead of braindead 1-size-fits-all is cool (on paper)... the combination of those "requirements" is a tall order, and most seem to not realize that... is easy for us to pick the game apart and point what's wrong, but very few probably know how to achieve all this...
b4 anything, I just want to say I don't really think is productive to compare this to Helldiver(OG), for a number of important reasons but the biggest one being: that game was very niche, and although there a 2 in the title this game is way bigger (player numbers) and built very differently (probably part of the reason behind being bigger in the 1st place), and I'm nor necessary arguing which approach is good/bad (not even better/worse) but that there's a compromise: more people = more variety in tastes, in turn if you fail to please the majority, majority will leave (there's a fundamental reason for anything being either popular or niche, and companies will have to make the fundamental choice of which to cater to)
that out of the way, 1st I wanna point out no weapon at vanilla Helldivers2 were ever OP... some weapons "felt" overpowered for a number or reasons, but among those: bugs breaking balance, inconsistencies built into the gameplay, internerds word of mouth wild fire (as I like to refer to - LOL)
Totally agree... great video mogz. Thanks for keeping it real.
Lick them boots if you want but I was having way more fun helldiving solo and trying to get everything done, which I never did, but it made me feel good and made me want to play more than just getting the main objectives done and getting hosed down while trying to extract blows. They just need more difficulty levels easy fix, more levels and better payouts, more content, they made 400,000,000$ off the game so far I think they have the resources to pull something out of their butts!
can u not just drop the difficulty down 1 level n still do exactly that?
Yeah rail gun was needed because of a bug, it was never over powered and now it’s basically garbage compared to other support weapons. Only thing it can do it 1 tap hulks to the head. Can’t effectively kill gunships, or AT-AT’s. Mildly ok for chargers, trash for bile titans. Just buffing stuff would not ruin the game, then can adjust enemy ai, and mission objectives. To say buffing weapons to make them feel good would ruin the challenge is Wild
Oh and the breaker lost 3 bullets in the mag. Like it’s dps stayed the same it’s total damage got slightly nerfed. It’s still good just no one runs it. Wildly hot takes here, definitely full of shizz lmao
doesnt matter what the reason for the change to railgun was.. it was a catch-all weapon that rendered most other stratagem weapon choices null.. thus, nerf was needed. Honestly cannot fathom any opposition to that change. It was ruining the game imo, they put a stop to that ASAP. As they should have.
people saying stuff like "the guns dont feel good" is not something i can relate to AT ALL. What exactly makes a gun feel good or not?
my guess is that people think a gun "Feels good" when it shreds 80% of the enemies the player comes across in just a couple of shots. If you're having to put any more than that into their head - woops! gun doesnt feel good anymore. Correct me if im wrong.. id love to hear a definition of "feels good"
to me, the whole point of helldivers is to find the perfect combination of primary weapon, sidearm and stratagems to perform the role you want to perform within your squad.. that role will NOT be a "one man army" role, as this would be anti-helldivers (it aint rambo.. its helldiverS.. plural.. its a team game), your role will be a limited role that has shortcomings.. those shortcomings will hopefully be negated by your teammates' loadouts.
For eg. u might be running a mostly anti tank loadout, and so you'll be weaker against swarms/small units... but a teammate will rock a swarm killing loadout n so the teams capability will be balanced. Everything has a sacrifice to be considered.. and no single weapon/stratagem should be objectively BETTER than any other in general.. they'll be better at certain tasks/fulfilling certain roles.. but not better overall.
That is helldivers.
@@Mogz-hd oh brother, the rail gun 1 tapping bile titans was a bug. The rail gun never lost the ability to two tap strip the legs off of a charger. And now you can 1 tap chargers with an EAT or Recoilless Rifle or Quasar. 2 tap bile titans for the previous mentioned weapons. The reason the rail gun was “ruining the game” was because of a bug and the fact nothing else was good, so the buffed all of the anti-tanks to be viable. Thus adding variety. It’s delusional to think nerfing the rail gun saved the game because it was only good because they had shit balancing and a bug in the game. Now the rail gun has little to no utility minus the 1 tap to hulks.
I understand it’s a team game, but primary weapons are wildly imbalanced. With the last warning all they released was stuff already in the game but worse. The tenderizer is not even as good as the standard liberator, all it has is better recoil. Pummeler, not bad can stagger, arguably just as good as the defender but with some stun utility, over not bad since the added utility. Purifier, just a bad scorcher with medium armor pen, scorcher is better than it in every sense minus the armor pen.
Idc care about meta, I care about variety. Everything is now either scorcher (which is good but not broken), Jar-5, or incendiary breaker. Idk I just think other primaries need to be looked at, everyone understands stratagems are supposed to be the focus of the game, but they have cooldowns, limited uses, modifiers that make them miss or take 1 stratagem away from you. And in those cases when your primary can barely kill anything the game doesn’t feel fun.
@@jasonbowker9937 the tenderizer is bugged. Dev has said that.
imo 90% of primaries are viable, if not 100% when run in parties. Just gota pair them with an appropriate stratagem weapon to offset their weaknesses. And then pair your loadout with your teammates'.
I know, cos i use a tonne of them every day in 8-9 difficulty.
@@Mogz-hd thought they said it’s not performing how they’d like it to not that it’s bugged pretty sure that’s how they said it but idk I guess. Its damage is the same as the liberator’s. It’s bad on release, that’s ok they can fix it.
I play on lvl7 mostly the bots, group play as well. I understand viability should be different versus the different enemy types.
I mean I just disagree with your 90% viability claim and that’s ok. I think the consensus is that most primaries are not good. It’d be dumb of Arrowhead to not readjust balancing for the masses because the game would just die. Because a lot of people don’t find the current game balance fun. They are encouraging meta by having so few primary and stratagems that are useful
Most people arguing for balancing aren’t really the solo players on lvl9. Them people want patrols fixed. And they are getting their wish.
If Arrowhead doesn’t understand that no matter what they do someone will always find away to solo a lvl9 mission, unless they make it impossible, like making an objective like a 2 man door situation. Then they are just lost.
I disagree with SOME of your viewpoints. Overall great video, well spoken, however you have some bias. I have a small group of friends that can't get on all that often. And we like to play co-op together literally just to have some fun. Having the overpowered weapons doesn't change how we play. We just want to get together, talk some smack to each other, and blow off some steam. When you weaken the majority of primary weapons, it's not nearly as fun. There really aren't many strats that take out the heavy enemies, and the ones that do are limited use or really long cool down times. Most of the turrents are only good for medium armored enemies and below. We use our starts plenty, but when you have hordes and swarms of enemies coming at you (most of which end up being chaff like hunters and below), with main weaponry that is too week or has low ammo count with long reload times or too few mags to be able to effectively deal with chaff, then why have them at all? The main focus can't be on strats, because then what is the point of the main weapon at all? I am not a "buff only" person, but there does need to be some serious buffing going on in order to balance out gameplay so that strats are used for what the need to be used for, and not just helping clear chaff due to low-powered or low-ammo primary weapons.
something that they can do is add very powerful weapons but make them need 2 players like an asisted reload or maybe a vehicle that needs 2 players to operate
yeh thats a great idea. duno why they havnt done that.. dont think iv EVER used the assisted reload system on weapons like the recoilless.. never seen ANYONE use it lol..
would be great if there were weapons that basically required it that were super powerful
Live service means they can rug pull whenever they want
Ok so they use us to play test. Take that data and nerf the most used weapons. But why not take the data of the least used weapons and buff them? It’s pretty much only been one way. Which makes 0 sense
I’ve heard that there was no difference in mission success rate it’s just that they didn’t like a ‘meta’. If that’s true then that seems a bit diabolical.
i think people look at this game a little too short term tbh.
Maybe the issue isn't so much that the least used weapons are objectively terrible compared to the most used ones.. maybe the issue is that players have just not yet discovered how to use them effectively yet.
and the issue with weapons that are too strong is that those weapons will prevent players from even TRYING to use other "weaker" weapons.. because they already have obviously viable weapons to choose. So... those OP weapons need to be urgently nerfed in order to cause players to go searching for new playstyles & weapons to match those playstyles.. etc etc
i duno.. its a very delicate balance imo, and i think arrowhead are looking quite long term (what COULD work).. whereas the playerbase is looking very short term (what works NOW)
one thing I know for sure is that there are a bunch of weapons/stratagems that are very much viable when used in the right loadout & the right team, but are very much ignored by 99% of the playerbase bcs those loadouts dont gel with the common/expected playstyle.
apologies for my disjointed thought. 3am. i should be in bed lol
@@Mogz-hd I think you’re right, that makes sense. I love this game and plan on playing for a while but yeah it’s definitely not easy. I don’t envy them when it comes to balancing😂 And it does force people to try different builds.
Thanks for taking the time to reply at 3 am! I just found your channel and I’m going to sub rn
thank you mate i appreciate that
Isn’t there a dev on the arrowhead team who worked on another game and nerfed weapons in that game as well? Anyone know what game they worked on?
Hello neighbor 2. Dev is alexus
Balancing is unnecessary in a coop-only game. Weapons need to be fun, and that is it. Make them fun and people will use them and experiment with different setups. There is no need to discourage the use of ANY weapon in a non-competitive game. Edit: In addition, nerfing weapons from their original point-of-sale performance is false advertisement and may end up getting them into hot water. If a weapon can be obtained from real-currency purchases, it should be fully-tested before it is released. The last thing this game needs after the PSN debacle is something like a false advertisement issue.
That's fine let them tweek it to our liking 👍🏽
Why would people try different weapons when you know they're just going to be bad? Why would people strive to get the new weapons if they feel weak? The fundamental problem with your argument here is it assumes most primaries are already in a good place and if you play anything 7 and up commonly, you'd know this is wrong.
The game has people swarm every decent weapon not because they are meta ants, but because the current 'norm' doesn't feel good. It feels weak, bad to play. So bringing the good weapons down isn't a boon to your game, it just makes the only weapons people liked to be like the rest.
Stratagems have too much of a cool down to be a crutch to the gameplay for heavier units. We have more heavy units than strat slots often in a single bug breach and I'm not talking chargers. So no, it's not in a good place now. That's the communities problem. Primaries are generally in a bad place right now and stratagems are not plentiful enough to handle the weight.
The Rail is a both a bad and good example, bad because it's a support weapon and it's not the topic most people are arguing as it was too strong, however a good example of what happens to weapons they nerf. Now no one uses it, it's weak and not fun to use and that's a support weapon.
The devs often talk about the 'fantasy' of the weapon, which most people when booting up HD2 are not looking for "Airsoft In Space". And you can tell how sick of it people are getting with the reaction to the new warbond and it's only going to get worse if it continues. Hard games are good, but you know what makes Sekiro so beloved by many, it's not Isshin blasting you with his sidearm. It's that the game feels good to play. Which most people in the community agrees that the majority of primaries do not.
"and if you play anything 7 and up commonly, you'd know this is wrong. "
to be clear - i exclusively play 7 8 and 9.
@@Mogz-hd Then you should understand the main use for strats are to take out Titans because 8 in the span of two minutes is going to take the most of your slots. Therefore needing Primaries that can handle chaff instead of being forced to rely on something that is already being used.
Still the point stays the same. The majority of the community agrees that primaries are generally in a bad place. Therefore bringing everything down to a bad place is obviously a negative and not a positive.
most of your opinion on this stuff comes from solo play or group play?
Who tf would not test guns??? Thats meta mentality.
I play only on 9, and ive played with ALL weapons. Nowdays im using adjucator, and it melts everything. But you know, Skill issue.
@@brunomonteiro7788 i play on 9 with hud off and i never use my primary or sidearm. i only use EATs and melee
i also crawl everywhere
"but if you only buff weapons the game will be too easy"
...so then add more enemies and slide other difficulty modifiers to negate that. Players want to feel powerful, not be handed an easy win. There's a difference.
"the game would be too easy" says the OP. too easy for who? ive met so many players ingame who are not really ego shooter players and its their first shooter game because theyre on console. now are you saying that the devs are balancing based off them? making the guns and strategems weaker because they dont know how to play the game? how is that fair people who arent highly skilled? the devs are nerfing stuff because of the top 1 percent are blasting through the game like its too easy for sure and it just gets harder for the unskilled player. please justify these actions to me because all i see are scared new players who are scared of getting kicked because they dont bring anything to the table and get carried all the way. i am all for buffing everything in the game so that my problem is i dont know what is best to bring! because brother, right now? i definitely know what to bring because everything else is shit.
"i definitely know what to bring because everything else is shit."
and what exactly is that homie?
Finally some1 understands, crybabys complaining about to hard gonna make the game soft
Yes, someone gets it! Thank you!
Like why nerf, it's a pve game, just buff the other guns like Damn, I not saying buff it to the levels of the good weapons, just make the others viable
vid explains that
@@Mogz-hd yeah they did but still stand by what i said. pve games don't need nerfs, yes maybe every once in awhile but every patch come on, them nerfing things is them saying, "hey we don't like that you guys are having an 'easy' time of the game we made to be hard so you guys can go screw yourselves cause we are mad"
@@sayedthoz7950tell me, which guns isnt viable at the moment? Cuz i tested everything, and still you can complete helldive with ease. Of course, some are meant for bugs, other meant for bots, but all of them usable.
The crossbow is actually ass, the impact incendiary are not as strong as I feel they should be, can't even kill a spitter, the tenderizer sucks, and arrowhead said they are aware that one is not as good as it should be, they keep messing up the airburst rocket launcher, the assault rifles do no damage to anything, the new deagle is underwhelming, the thermite grenades take way to long for how chaotic the game is, the spear is still in a bad spot with the lock on not working more than half the time, the guard dog has less ammo then the actual gun you use, the plas 101 purifier, the one you have to charge should do more damage then it does, shows it one shooting scout strikers in one hit in trailer Takes 2 the only good anti tank option is the quazzar , sufficient enough for you? Note this is from solo diving only.
I have 3 pages of notes and things for all the weapons and strategems if you want me to tell you what I think of every single one
I wasnt that upset about their balancing until the last patch where they turned the quasar into 3 uses per minute, and turned the eruptor into a long range dominator. These were just bad choices by the devs, and if this continues, nobody will take them seriously. Look at warframe, the crybabies never stopped complaining about the useful weapons, they kept nerfing them and their rivens, until the wntire community went against them. Now they are reluctant at balancing weapons.
So tell me, what would justify you taking EATs instead of quasar?
@@brunomonteiro7788 isn't instant trigger enough of a reason? quasar has a very long charge up
@@NaregChakhbasian you want to balance infinite ammo, with it charging it up??
@@NaregChakhbasian And honestly, wasnt even that long to charge it up.. EATs took at least 40 seconds to 1 minute to recharge. Recoiless requires ammo. Quasar doesnt need a backpack, neither ammo, so it must have a longer recharge time. Balance!
@brunomonteiro7788 okay give it a long charge up, but why is it given a long cooldown as well? It's useless now.
Your opinion regarding stratagems is flawed because you choose them depending on the mission, not your primary. Also, it's not fun when you depend on them because you end up with an enemy like the bile titan who asks for specific stratagems discouraging experimentation. The Factory Strider is waaay more dynamic to face.
My proposed balancing philosophy would be:
Light penetration should kill enemies faster but require accuracy. Med penetration should kill enemies slower but from any angle. And every support weapon should be competent against heavy armor, some better than others.
It was the case with both snipers until they buffed the Counter Sniper and now there is no practical reason to use the Light pen Diligence against bots. Although they both were outclassed by the Dominator.
you can absolutely choose your primary depending on the mission, and should
@@gorway6807 I meant you don't choose your stratagems depending on your primary. I mean, you can, but you know you are sacrificing a stratagem slot choosing a Stalwart because you want to bring the Eruptor.
@@asocil4722
"Also, it's not fun when you depend on them because you end up with an enemy like the bile titan who asks for specific stratagems"
bile titan can be taken out soooooooooo many different ways.
-Railcannon strike
-500kg
-many other airstrikes will also help
-railgun
-flame thrower
-eat
-recoilless
to name a few of my personal favs
re: " because you choose them depending on the mission, not your primary."
eh.. i dont really. I do ofc change my loadout depending on Bots vs Bugs... and i mostly play bugs tbh.. but then i dont really change my loadout at all depending on the mission im doing within those race categories. I build loadouts around the synergy between my primary weapon & stratagem weapon mostly.. my loadout is a combo of the two of those + stratagems to support my AT, individual small unit, and swarm capabilities.
the mission itself isnt super important when building a loadout for me.
@@Mogz-hdthe orbital Precision strike obliterates them
@@Mogz-hdthem = bile titans
Good video
Another words this is just pure speculation...lol
correct
It should be 50/50 odds of completing Helldive with 4 people. Soloing Helldive should be extremely difficult.
No, I don´t agree with your opinion.
I see!
i wish arrowhead would watch this video. i HATE how they are dumbing down the game n making it easier for all the weak crybabies who complain they cant solo helldive. no one should be able to solo helldive!!! lvl8 is called impossible! which means, if you beat a lvl8 run, you defied the odds n did the impossible! helldive shouldnt even be ab option for success! not for a cpl years at least.
also, the laser build you were using at the end is one of my builds i call laser-tag and it's one of my favorite builds to play. works wonders on both warfronts!
you now have a personal MO.... send this video to arrowhead. i dont care how, just do it! reward 15 medals.
For me personally it isn’t about soloing helldive. Me and my friends played together a fair bit the first month and a half or so, but currently the same difficulties we once played and enjoyed are now way too much. The game has become mentally exhausting.
There needs to be viable buffed weapons for us casuals to be able to enjoy the game. It’s PVE dude, it’s supposed to be fun why ruin the fun? If you personally enjoy challenge, then maybe they should make impossible and helldive a sweaty irritating mess for guys like u, and make suicide and below like it was before.
So casuals like me and my friends can still get super credits, bc that’s what It boils down to man. before we could get some super credits without putting tons of hours a week in the game, I can only play on the weekends, and for only a few hours bc I have other things to do. When I do have the chance to play now, I simply don’t bc it’s not fun anymore.
We would play a mission on suicide and after we extract I’d sigh, sit back and we’d all be like “yeah, I think we’re done we’re all gonna play something else.” And that sucks bc it’s a fun game man. We don’t need every single gun to one shot everything, just take everything they’ve nerfed back to its original state and buff the ARs a bit then call it. And just don’t nerf anything new.
And ig others who play without friends on higher difficulties bc they want super samples get shafted bc they’re “supposed to play it this way” why limit players on how they can play a pve game they paid for? Seems messed up, idk.
@@Breath310 I bought the game for my best friend who is super busy n only has time to play for 2-3hrs on Saturday. when we play, we play on lvls 3-5. 5 is still too sketch for him as he has such limited experience. when I play, I like to play bugs 6-7 and bots 5-6. I've played lvl 8 n it is stressful. I've nvr played 9 n I don't really want to n i wish no one was able to complete 9, so there would always be an impossible level. I don't want to do an impossible 9. hell, i don't even want to do 9 as it is, and ive gotten quite good at the game. I just hate how a loud segment of the community feel entitled to solo lvl 9 so they can flex on others who can't. I want the game to be wicked hard, but impossible at higher difficulties. I also want lower difficulty levels for you and your friends as well as my best mate who only gets 3hrs a week. that's what I want. I'm not one of the assholes on youtube gloating how easy solo 9 is. I hate that shit n I hate that's even a possibility w a game that was designed to be a hardcore experience. I'm sorry you and your friends are finding less enjoyment recently. it sounds like you guys are in the same boat as my friend. I want the same for you as I do my best friend. I'm privileged to have extra time available to "get gud," but even I don't play at lvl 9. or even 8 really. I have, but I prefer to stay at lvl 7. I too just wanna have a good time. I'm not trying to flex on anyone. I'm just afraid of the game getting watered down, losing its personality, and becoming another generic live-service beat. I hope you and your friends find the joy in the game you once had and maybe one day, my saturday night buddy, myself and you and your friend will team up to bash some bugs and have a great time.
@@Jhunta man dude, I could NOT agree with you more. Man like I said too idc about helldive or impossible at all, I just wana be able to at least do suicide so I can get super samples, and most importantly, have fun. The balancing issues made everyone from going to roleplaying constantly, to now arguing about balancing. Which for me, the roleplaying aspect was one of if not the biggest charm this game offered. Now that it’s gone, PLUS everything we use is nerfed while the enemies are buffed, it’s just flat out, to frustrating. But I see where someone who plays a lot is coming from, I get it, u want a challenge. So I say to those people u can have helldive, just make at least one super sample difficulty avaliable for the rest of us is all, how do u do that? U buff some of the guns. And the suuuper sweaty try hards and flex and say “look at me I can solo helldive with a pistol” and the rest of us can go “ 👏🏻 good for u” 😂 I just wana have fun and be able to get at least 3 super samples per game.
@@Jhunta also, u seem like a reasonable person, if more were like you, maybe the heated discussions wouldn’t be so out of hand. U wanting everyone to enjoy it is honestly what I figured everyone would want. But sadly there’s a fair bit that wana cry “git guud” and freak out when casuals want 3-5 viable loadouts. And yeah man, if I see your gamertag ever we will for sure slaughter some bots or bugs.
Ok. Buffs do lead to power creep and all... But these nerfs have the opposite effect. The nerfs are too hard. They've been nerfing guns and stratagems, and buffing enemies to the point where the fun has dropped off drastically.
cant you just step the difficulty down a notch to account for any change in baseline/overall difficulty?