Bought a Framework 13" a few months ago based on your reviews (the programming angle was very important to me). Very happy with my purchase so far. Thank you! Also, I wanted to add that I really appreciate your coverage of the company overall, and hope to see more videos with them soon. All the best!
Does the higher cost than another product with similar specs worth it? Another question, the single component upgrade is as equally expensive as a laptop, does it worth it?
@@benyaminasgari7503 Yes, in my opinion it is worth it absolutely. Just thinking about it logically, if you invest in your laptop - so that it has a great display, keyboard, build quality and everything else - would you want to throw it out simply because the CPU is now a few years old. No, you would pull the CPU out, keep all the good parts (that you can upgrade over time also & replace if they ever get broken), and install the newer, better part in your system. This costs less 100% of the time. If you compare with 700$ plastic laptops, then sure, it may not be the best deal. But if you compare it with laptops with a high build quality and excellent parts, such as in the case of the Framework, they will always cost more than a single part replacement. Also, you should keep in mind repairability. I had a family member damage my laptop, and was able to replace the bottom case and input deck (keyboard + touchpad + fingerprint) for about 210$. Try that with any other luxury laptop. I would have been 1,000$ down, but I was able to replace all the parts with ease.
@@benyaminasgari7503 chassis matters for performance and cooling. The Framework 13 7840U performs better than most with the same chip. I actually don't recall seeing a better performer, which is a shame considering it was one of the 1st laptops to ship with the chip
I love how knowledgeable Nirav is on challenges his team has been facing and can speak well to them, I hope expanding to non-laptop products won't lead to dilution of the vision or attention to specific product categories
@ToumalRakesh It better be MacBook levels of quality, or else I don't want it. Dell's implementation is awful, with no way to tell where it is usable and the haptics are weaker than any MacBook.
Coming into year 4 with my laptop with a 4k oled display. It's been repasted 3x, gone through 2 sets of fans and 4 ssds. The idea that it's junk once the gpu or cpu goes is pretty sad. Keeping an eye on framework for my next laptop.
It's an aero15 oled sa. It's been my main work machine so it spends alot of time at 100%gpu and cpu. Nvme Ssds just die from overheating as there was no space for heatsink in this design. The 1tb sata has been a trooper.
Didn't even know nvme ssds could die from something other than liquid damage and cycles. I thought those things should be fairly temperature resistant, but apparently not
16:09 EXACTLY. What's the point of adding a useless A.I. key that removes a better key (the right control key, which I do use quite often)? Nothing, that's what! Also, even if Framework would have to add the key for their Windows preloaded laptops, they could still keep their Linux keyboards without it (and with a Super key instead of a Windows key like what they currently offer). As somebody who was concerned about some of the "issues" brought by some "reviewers" and Josh after pre-ordering my Framework Laptop 16, I can safely say that none of those "issues" are actual issues on my unit. Would I like a more powerful dGPU? Of course! But after seeing more and more OEMs make good laptops and then make them worse in many ways just a few years later (the 2022 Legion 7i to the 2023/2024 models, the recent XPS laptops, among others), I can safely say that Framework is actually keeping the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" vibe I'd expect from other OEMs but those other OEMs haven't done.
@@Chin-Hwa Not very likely if you want to buy a single key since every laptop has a different shape and size for their keycaps. The best thing you could do is just to rebind it and don't mind having a copilot picture on it, or buy a set of keycaps that's similar to your laptop without the copilot key
And the saddest thing is that it's not even a real key. When Microsoft introduced the windows key, it was just a rebranded Super key. They could have done the same with Meta or Hyper, but no, they just had to use a key combination.
Nice interview. I wished you’d asked about how they will deal with the fact that they eventually will have to abandon backward compatibility with the framework 13 when redesigning the chassis, etc.
The most recent framework laptop improvements have finally put them on the map for my next laptop purchase. They've proven with their actions that they are committed to the upgradability concept and seeing such major and impressive QoL improvements with things like the high refresh rate display really helps me to believe in the companies mission and believe that they will deliver. Hats off to the CEO for such excellent transparency and Framework's excellent job taking feedback from the community. It's really nice to know that the improvements will keep coming, and that if I bought a framework today, I'd be able to take advantage of those improvements without needing to buy a whole new laptop. Awesome stuff!
I upgraded my original fw 13 with intel 11th gen to a zen 4 platform, and I'm getting the new display soon. Cool to have the same system get these really meaningful upgrades for very reasonable prices. Here's hoping Framework continues to do well and is able to offer more modules and upgrades to fit various user's needs and preferences - personally really hoping we get some more customization in the keyboards - ortholinear layouts, or even fully custom layouts could be a game changer. edit: as for touchpad palm rejection/trackpoint - I haven't had any issues with palm rejection on linux under gnome, but the trackpoint would be excellent! edit 2: for sound on the framework, especially the framework 16, I feel like there should be more of a focus on EQ (either software, or in the codec). The speakers can be *significantly* improved for very little cpu performance cost with easy effects on linux, or APO on windows.
14:45 thank you so much for being one of the few tech people on youtube outright acknowledging that even *if* "AI" worked as advertised the hardware products being pushed for it right now still don't have a use case
I'd love to hear what Framework is going to do about the move to LPDDR-only platforms like Zen5 and Core Ultra Series 2. They're basically going to have to adopt LPCAMM2 which could be challenging.
Maybe a touchscreen 14 would be nice? Tablets are notoriously unrepairable, so framework would have a big advantage I would also maybe like a laptop build for an egpu. The port could be proprietary, but open source so it can become standardised
The new display is a very welcome addition, however, I'd suspect that such a high resolution + higher refresh rate would be quite detrimental to battery life, which is already behind the competition..? A test would be nice to see.
@@michalsvihla1403 Could you check our Shorts? We haven't done many and one is on Zenbooks comparing battery life for different display resolutions. Watch that one
@@JustJoshTech Thanks, I found it. The higher res one (2880x1880 I think @120hz) actually looks very close to the new one the Framework is getting. From my calculations the 1920x1200 display from that video would get 12h of video playback compared to 9h on the higher res display. Seems like quite a bit, but if we keep in mind that Framework already had a pretty high res display to start with, it's probably not going to be that much of a difference... Would love to see a Core Ultra vs Zen 5 comparison in the Framework when those land. Thanks.
nice interview as a linux user, the new intel frameworks seemed very interesting but unfortunately i cancelled my preorder after watching your video on the new amd cpus as it seems worth waiting for what the coming months have to offer
The acknowledgement of interest in a trackpoint is great to hear. While I do not care for the trackpoint itself, I do care for having physical buttons above the touch-pad. These I constantly use with my current ThinkPad, which being one of the first TPs with a Zen (1) AMD chip is starting to show it's age. So I have been looking for an upgrade, the lack of these buttons being the main thing that makes me hesitant of the Framework 16. Otherwise I love the design, but I don't think I can adapt to using multi-finger taps, trackpad regions or bottom mounted buttons.
It would be cool to see some form of modular PCI-E option available on the frameworks, allowing external options like a eGPU through Oculink etc. I would definitely consider a Framework 13 with the new AMD chips and an oculink port. I considered the Framework 16 but was very disappointed by their GPU offering, despite being considerably larger, it's GPU is barely an upgrade from the 6800S in my ASUS G14.
Nice interview, always nice to hear from Nirav and the Framework team, I'm hoping they release a 2 in 1 surface like machine and show the others how to do it right.
Thanks for the incisive interview - and for following Framework so closely! I've really been enjoying my AMD Framework, and it looks like their design philosophy will continue to provide us with plenty of options in the future.
I cannot believe we're still saying that *once* your sleep mode depletes your battery going to hibernate automatically is an ok experience. It is most definitely not. If you intend to put your computer to sleep overnight, you might as well put it straight into hibernate to save some battery. Also this behavior will age your battery early by not a lot but a significant amount. Also the experience of booting from hibernate is not as fun as advertised as it will always take at least 50% more time than a regular cold boot if not double depending on how much stuff you had opened when you hibernated (imagine you're doing real work on a 64GB machine with 48GB utilization, yikes)
@@MySonicDragonhe has to do that. You have to pretend secretive as a company for many reasons unrelated to your ideology. Framework is by far the most open brand out there. If you are running a company you have to keep quite about some issues due to NDAs or other leagl issues even if you personally don't want to. Same kind of thing happened when framework was in talks with Louis Roseman for schematics. Its quite unease territory and framework doing its best to be handel it without getting more corporate.
Josh, I hope the mobile intel chips aren't affected. If they are, I can only hope lenovo will release amd versions of their legion lineup sometime this year. Otherwise, I'd have to settle for a thinkpad p1 gen 7 solely for work and only game on a desktop instead. 😞
@@nameless_stranger The mobile chips, I think only the top HX parts have a chance of being affected. But even them, because they're in laptops, have a) better binning for power efficiency and b) slightly lower normal and boost frequencies. In practice that means they should also be configured to use less voltage, which seems to be the main culprit. Also, the story started getting big several months ago already and the only thing I heard about laptops is the possiblity that they are affected and that in the top HX SKUs which are basically the same as the desktop chips. But I do hope that Intel as a whole is not that much affected. Their dealing with the situation is really REALLY bad and that can have very negative and long lasting implications.
Framework please make 21-22" version with sockatable CPU and option for hot swap 2,5" drives, with big vapor chamber heatsink, like full successor for clevo p870
Linux sleep mode is glitchy on a lot of laptops. Sometimes because of the old kernel in distribution, sometimes because of a specific distro configuration. I had huge issues with Linux MX which I solved with a bit of tinkering. Unfortunately, I do not think it will be easy to fix it for all Linux distribution. Maybe it would be possible to work with the maintainers of the most popular ones (Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Linux MX, Fedora) to include necessary tweaks for new releases.
@@jamesbuckwas6575 I have a funny laptop that has absolutely perfect palm rejection under Linux and garbage palm rejection under Windows. Nevertheless, he stated that palm rejection was troublesome under both Windows and Linux on the Framework, so it's probably a good idea to fix an existing essential feature before introducing new ones.
Hi Josh, I have the same laptop as you, I'm using the Framework Laptop 13 with AMD 7840U. But mine has a issue connecting to an external display via USB-C on ports 1 and 3 (USB4 ports). I've tested a few scenarios, there are only 2 scenarios where I can use my external display with my framework laptop. 1) When my laptop has 95% and above, or 2) When I have a power source charging my laptop on a different port. When I'm in either one of these scenarios, then my framework 13 can charge and project/extend to the external display at the same time. Else it will show an error message at the bottom right corner "Display connection might be limited". The laptop will attempt to project/extend to the external display when connected. The screen on my laptop will become smaller during the attempt to connect to the external display and maximize back to full size. But the external display will remain blank, and my framework laptop will try to project/extend to the external display again repeatedly. I've tested it with different laptops, cables, monitors, the latest drivers, updates & BIOS 3.05, but the issue persists. Do you have this issue with yours? Do you know any way to solve this issue?
Would be curious to hear more about LPCAM 2 and what framework thinks of adding it to its products. Also when they think it will be on the market, ddr5 or will it become standard for DDR6?
I’m in review hell at this point. I considered the Dell Precision 7860 9i with 64 GB (but didn’t expect the price to be that exorbitant!) so I switched to considering the Yoga Ultra 9 with 32GB and now I see people talking about the HP specter instead! I need something suitable for a programmer who runs multiple apps, works with VMs and large data sets. 32GB is cool but I prefer 64GB because this laptop has to be future proof. I’m done with MacBooks, I prefer windows now because windows laptops perform better with the apps I use for work.
will you be able to secure chips without spyware in the firmware ? Could you consider a high performance boards with duel RISC5 chips and a AI chip for Ai from grafcore ?
Even though I much prefer ARM to x86 in general, I wouldn't mind if Framework skipped Qualcomm boards completely. Intel too, of course. I'd rather have a decent AMD board for x86 compatibility now and eventually a RISC-V one to break free from x86, but I can't see too many reasons for using ARM in a laptop TBH, at least not now after seeing the early benchmarks of Ryzen 300. If I could I'd already have pre-ordered a Framework 16 with Ryzen 370 (or better) and at least 96 GiB of ECC RAM, especially if it had a touchpad similar to older MacBooks (not a huge one like those more recent laptops). Actually, speaking of MacBooks, maybe the biggest argument for having laptops with ARM CPUs is easier porting of software to Apple silicon? But there are still so many differences other than the ISA that I doubt it's significant enough to be a consideration.
I wonder if they'll go all AMD in the future given how much better their iGPU graphics performance is than intel. performance is better or on par too. I don't think Qualcomm will be licensing their ARM chips to Framework anytime soon, so they're going to have to continue with x86. also I'd like to see them drop their prices a little bit. The cost of entry is just a little too high with not enough storage and RAM compared to just getting a surface laptop 7 (ARM) with 16gb ram for $1000. and add a touchscreen option please lol
@@cameronbosch1213They're very.. protective. Losing Qualcomm's licensing arrangements is quite a huge loss. Their fight is predictable, independent of their success. The weird part is that arm jacked up licensing fees early last year, after Qualcomm announced their Oryon plans in 2022. They seem to be jealous as "other companies are making billions while they are making millions" according to an article. So they want a cut of the smartphone sales as well. But they're more of a research and licensing company, and Risc V is also a threat to their business. They're supposed to be more competitive, bringing more to the table to encourage customers away from x86 or other architectures. They got a license renewal with Apple late last year btw. Pretty lucrative imo.
Absolutely love my Framework 16. The price is too high for normal laptop consumers, but it's an incredible piece of kit. Cannot wait to keep it for years and years. Also, absolutely running Linux on it.
My framework is 4yo now and has been mostly great. However i have replaced the mainboard twice. Usbc monitors that provide charge seem to kill the usb ports
If there was an option to put in something like an old school Thinkpad keyboard (as in the X220 or T420) , I would seriously pay $500+ for the privilege over a standard Framework laptop.
From XMG reddit In order to make full advantage of the promised iGPU and NPU performance, in 2024, AMD supports Strix Point on FP8 only with LPDDR5X memory, which is typically soldered. XMG EVO however is designed for upgradable SO-DIMM with up to 96 GB of total capacity. Based on preliminary roadmap information, there is a chance that AMD will support Strix Point on a slightly modified FP8 platform with SO-DIMM in the future, but this is yet to be confirmed. At any rate, this is not planned to happen before 2025, and it would still require a new mainboard layout when going from FP7r2 to FP8.
1. Snapdragon versions 2. Sensel or any good hapti touchpad w/o palm rejection issues 3. 1.5mm key travel keyboard 4. good level battery life 5. 14 inchh screen size if possible Thank you framework for what youre doing and not falling for dumby keys which bring up pwas
Framework 16 owner (Batch 6 preorder) - very happy that I did not chose to buy new MacBook pro and chose framework instead. Yes, mac has better display (marginally), sound and trackpad - but boy I hate their OS, RAM is of price of gold and overall feel of them forcing me to use their product as they want. (Fedora runs beautifully on Framework) My biggest complaints are: 1. The sound is horrible, just horrible. Use headphones or portable speaker. My GF MacBook air M1 has way better sound, it's not even close. 2. Touch pad not the best, not the worst - like general windows laptop - I would want something better, preferably in single unit without spacers - spacers make laptop look ugly. 3. Display has light blead, in most use cases not noticeable but on black it is noticeable. I would be nice to have ability to buy OLED, I would not dare to buy OLED on any other laptop - but here it is replaceable so I not so much afraid of burning.
Unsolicited feedback: My dream laptop would be a macbook air without notch, slightly thicker with bigger battery, x86, one extra USBC on the right and an SD slot on the right. Internal memory should be a CAMM module.
I would love to have a Trackpoint (eraser-head mouse pointer between the G and H keys) on my Framework. I think Framework would have to make a licensing deal with IBM, Lenovo, Toshiba, or whomever owns the patents and trademarks to the Trackpoint. I wonder whether those terms would be favorable enough to justify the price, or whether the Trackpoint owner is even willing to license it out anymore. I would also like to see Framework import and resell in the USA the Fairphone repairable smartphone which is currently sold in Europe.
Strix point supports DDR5 5600. I'm guessing Framework will skip Lunar Lake and go straight to Arrow Lake mobile which will support DDR5. I'm personally hoping they move to LP-CAMM2 soon, but I don't see them moving to that for a while.
I think Framework just needs to work on the pricing of these laptops considering they are comparable to other devices if you just opted for accidental damage protection/extended warranty. I really think the adoption hurdle is giving people a cheaper alternative to have the peace of mind that their computer wil last them a long time
Exactly. The fact that replacing the laptop every 3 years is as expensive as upgrading the framework within the same timeframe is annoying. Makes it hard to justify
@davitdavid7165 It actually isn't. The upfront price of Framework's laptops are slightly higher, but upgrading that often not only creates e-waste, you have to do a backup of your data, you have to hope that the OEM doesn't ruin their laptops in three years, and it comes out more expensive in the end. Not to mention we'll eventually hit a plateau of screens, performance, etc.
@cameronbosch1213 at any given generation there has to be at least 1 oem who makes a good model and you can just go with that. The data thing is equally true for framework, as deleting and reinstalling all drivers as you switch to a new board will be a lot of work and unoptimised, so you will transfer it with an external ssd or something. Ehen it comes to external features they seem to get better with every generation. I wonder when the framework chassis will become outdated and what will happen then. When it comes to ewaste I do agree completely. I do think most consumers will not put it above value though. As for myself, I am planning to keep mine for 2 more years (7 total) and selling it used or donating it to a repair shop. I heard the cost analysis from dave2d if I remember correctly, don't know how true that is exactly, especially when we can not predict future pricing.
while we will not use these laptops to train AI on them, we will be using them to run genAI. And I bet more games and consumer grade applications will start working with local AI more and more.
As many comments in the Framework forum have already said, a haptic trackpad would be nice.
Hopefully Sensel!
@@Slavolko I agree!
Goddamn YES
I personally hated when apple did that to both the home button and their trackpad. It just feels fake and terrible. (We all have opinions I guess)
@@Slavolko Yes! We hope to join forces one day. Thanks for the shout-out! 🥰
Can't wait for my repairable Framework washing machine in 2034. Hopefully a repairable electric car by 2044.
I would love a very customizable, rootable, modifiable phone with high-end hardware from them.
Framework modular toilet when
repairable electric toothbrush when?
@@Burger_Party I just mounted mine on a power drill. Works like a charm.
Hey…ur channel helped me a lot for buying my 1st ever gaming laptop. Thank you, I bought the legion 7i 2024 white. And m very happy with it.
Very glad to hear!
Bought a Framework 13" a few months ago based on your reviews (the programming angle was very important to me). Very happy with my purchase so far. Thank you!
Also, I wanted to add that I really appreciate your coverage of the company overall, and hope to see more videos with them soon. All the best!
Thank you
Does the higher cost than another product with similar specs worth it?
Another question, the single component upgrade is as equally expensive as a laptop, does it worth it?
@@benyaminasgari7503 Yes, in my opinion it is worth it absolutely. Just thinking about it logically, if you invest in your laptop - so that it has a great display, keyboard, build quality and everything else - would you want to throw it out simply because the CPU is now a few years old.
No, you would pull the CPU out, keep all the good parts (that you can upgrade over time also & replace if they ever get broken), and install the newer, better part in your system. This costs less 100% of the time. If you compare with 700$ plastic laptops, then sure, it may not be the best deal. But if you compare it with laptops with a high build quality and excellent parts, such as in the case of the Framework, they will always cost more than a single part replacement.
Also, you should keep in mind repairability. I had a family member damage my laptop, and was able to replace the bottom case and input deck (keyboard + touchpad + fingerprint) for about 210$. Try that with any other luxury laptop. I would have been 1,000$ down, but I was able to replace all the parts with ease.
@@benyaminasgari7503 chassis matters for performance and cooling. The Framework 13 7840U performs better than most with the same chip. I actually don't recall seeing a better performer, which is a shame considering it was one of the 1st laptops to ship with the chip
@@benyaminasgari7503 the single component upgrade is not as expensive as an equally speced laptop
The framework phone with support for Graphene OS would be game changing
Not the same, but similar: fairphone. You may already know but if you didnt..
I love how knowledgeable Nirav is on challenges his team has been facing and can speak well to them, I hope expanding to non-laptop products won't lead to dilution of the vision or attention to specific product categories
Haptic touchpad please!
@ToumalRakesh It better be MacBook levels of quality, or else I don't want it. Dell's implementation is awful, with no way to tell where it is usable and the haptics are weaker than any MacBook.
Framework 16 with one of the new ASUS/Razer 16” 2k/240hz OLEDs with Strix Halo next year… I’m buying.
Coming into year 4 with my laptop with a 4k oled display. It's been repasted 3x, gone through 2 sets of fans and 4 ssds. The idea that it's junk once the gpu or cpu goes is pretty sad. Keeping an eye on framework for my next laptop.
Holy hell, repasted 3 times in 4 years ? Are you working in Sahara or something ? Why repaste so often ?
how the hell do you go through 4 ssds , that is just not ok. were there all samsung ?
It's an aero15 oled sa. It's been my main work machine so it spends alot of time at 100%gpu and cpu. Nvme Ssds just die from overheating as there was no space for heatsink in this design. The 1tb sata has been a trooper.
Didn't even know nvme ssds could die from something other than liquid damage and cycles. I thought those things should be fairly temperature resistant, but apparently not
@@ciriousjoker NVMEs can get really hot apparently
16:09 EXACTLY. What's the point of adding a useless A.I. key that removes a better key (the right control key, which I do use quite often)? Nothing, that's what!
Also, even if Framework would have to add the key for their Windows preloaded laptops, they could still keep their Linux keyboards without it (and with a Super key instead of a Windows key like what they currently offer).
As somebody who was concerned about some of the "issues" brought by some "reviewers" and Josh after pre-ordering my Framework Laptop 16, I can safely say that none of those "issues" are actual issues on my unit. Would I like a more powerful dGPU? Of course! But after seeing more and more OEMs make good laptops and then make them worse in many ways just a few years later (the 2022 Legion 7i to the 2023/2024 models, the recent XPS laptops, among others), I can safely say that Framework is actually keeping the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" vibe I'd expect from other OEMs but those other OEMs haven't done.
I’m actually looking to see if manufacturers or eBay sells laptop keyboard keycaps just to replace the copilot key back to the CTRL key.
@@Chin-Hwa Not very likely if you want to buy a single key since every laptop has a different shape and size for their keycaps. The best thing you could do is just to rebind it and don't mind having a copilot picture on it, or buy a set of keycaps that's similar to your laptop without the copilot key
And the saddest thing is that it's not even a real key. When Microsoft introduced the windows key, it was just a rebranded Super key. They could have done the same with Meta or Hyper, but no, they just had to use a key combination.
@@Chin-Hwa only brand that comes to my mind is Lenovo for their legion 7 series not sure about the other brands.
Nice interview. I wished you’d asked about how they will deal with the fact that they eventually will have to abandon backward compatibility with the framework 13 when redesigning the chassis, etc.
@@EdvardHolst this is a good question
The most recent framework laptop improvements have finally put them on the map for my next laptop purchase. They've proven with their actions that they are committed to the upgradability concept and seeing such major and impressive QoL improvements with things like the high refresh rate display really helps me to believe in the companies mission and believe that they will deliver. Hats off to the CEO for such excellent transparency and Framework's excellent job taking feedback from the community. It's really nice to know that the improvements will keep coming, and that if I bought a framework today, I'd be able to take advantage of those improvements without needing to buy a whole new laptop. Awesome stuff!
I upgraded my original fw 13 with intel 11th gen to a zen 4 platform, and I'm getting the new display soon. Cool to have the same system get these really meaningful upgrades for very reasonable prices. Here's hoping Framework continues to do well and is able to offer more modules and upgrades to fit various user's needs and preferences - personally really hoping we get some more customization in the keyboards - ortholinear layouts, or even fully custom layouts could be a game changer.
edit: as for touchpad palm rejection/trackpoint - I haven't had any issues with palm rejection on linux under gnome, but the trackpoint would be excellent!
edit 2: for sound on the framework, especially the framework 16, I feel like there should be more of a focus on EQ (either software, or in the codec). The speakers can be *significantly* improved for very little cpu performance cost with easy effects on linux, or APO on windows.
14:45 thank you so much for being one of the few tech people on youtube outright acknowledging that even *if* "AI" worked as advertised the hardware products being pushed for it right now still don't have a use case
If ever they expand further than laptop, I'd love for them to create a best in class 3-in-1, like Minisforum did/tried. Or a great x86 tablet.
+1 for this idea.
I would love a very customizable, rootable, modifiable phone with high-end hardware from them.
big agree
I'd love to hear what Framework is going to do about the move to LPDDR-only platforms like Zen5 and Core Ultra Series 2. They're basically going to have to adopt LPCAMM2 which could be challenging.
I loooove my Framework 13 with AMD, running Arch linux. It's so rad. Waiting on the new FW13 display that's coming soon.
Maybe a touchscreen 14 would be nice? Tablets are notoriously unrepairable, so framework would have a big advantage
I would also maybe like a laptop build for an egpu. The port could be proprietary, but open source so it can become standardised
When a trackpoint keyboard exists, I am confident that my next laptop would be a framework
The new display is a very welcome addition, however, I'd suspect that such a high resolution + higher refresh rate would be quite detrimental to battery life, which is already behind the competition..? A test would be nice to see.
We've tested that sort of thing before. High resolution displays do significantly reduce battery life
@@JustJoshTech So how big of a difference are we talking about? It would be nice to know when considering which display to go for.
@@michalsvihla1403 Could you check our Shorts? We haven't done many and one is on Zenbooks comparing battery life for different display resolutions. Watch that one
@@JustJoshTech Thanks, I found it. The higher res one (2880x1880 I think @120hz) actually looks very close to the new one the Framework is getting. From my calculations the 1920x1200 display from that video would get 12h of video playback compared to 9h on the higher res display. Seems like quite a bit, but if we keep in mind that Framework already had a pretty high res display to start with, it's probably not going to be that much of a difference... Would love to see a Core Ultra vs Zen 5 comparison in the Framework when those land. Thanks.
nice interview
as a linux user, the new intel frameworks seemed very interesting but unfortunately i cancelled my preorder after watching your video on the new amd cpus as it seems worth waiting for what the coming months have to offer
Absolutely delightful and refreshing! I'm getting a framework!
✅
We have a reveiw coming mid August. I'd watch that first.
Wish all CEOs were this knowledgeable about the products they sell
Great interview. Keep up the good work guys!
The acknowledgement of interest in a trackpoint is great to hear.
While I do not care for the trackpoint itself, I do care for having physical buttons above the touch-pad.
These I constantly use with my current ThinkPad, which being one of the first TPs with a Zen (1) AMD chip is starting to show it's age.
So I have been looking for an upgrade, the lack of these buttons being the main thing that makes me hesitant of the Framework 16.
Otherwise I love the design, but I don't think I can adapt to using multi-finger taps, trackpad regions or bottom mounted buttons.
It would be cool to see some form of modular PCI-E option available on the frameworks, allowing external options like a eGPU through Oculink etc. I would definitely consider a Framework 13 with the new AMD chips and an oculink port.
I considered the Framework 16 but was very disappointed by their GPU offering, despite being considerably larger, it's GPU is barely an upgrade from the 6800S in my ASUS G14.
Nice interview, always nice to hear from Nirav and the Framework team, I'm hoping they release a 2 in 1 surface like machine and show the others how to do it right.
Thanks for the incisive interview - and for following Framework so closely! I've really been enjoying my AMD Framework, and it looks like their design philosophy will continue to provide us with plenty of options in the future.
I'd love some more keyboard options... Ortholonear, split, alternate layouts... Keyboard nuts would have fun swapping those out!
Anyone else think trackpads are way too big theae days? There is a point where it stops becoming beneficial.
I would love to see a Framework 16 without dGPU as a thin&light as possible.
I want the chassis to feel more premium like a MacBook. It is metal but feels very cheap compared to my MacBook.
I cannot believe we're still saying that *once* your sleep mode depletes your battery going to hibernate automatically is an ok experience. It is most definitely not. If you intend to put your computer to sleep overnight, you might as well put it straight into hibernate to save some battery. Also this behavior will age your battery early by not a lot but a significant amount. Also the experience of booting from hibernate is not as fun as advertised as it will always take at least 50% more time than a regular cold boot if not double depending on how much stuff you had opened when you hibernated (imagine you're doing real work on a 64GB machine with 48GB utilization, yikes)
Apple laptops can go for weeks in hibernation without fuss, even the Intel ones, so it's a software / firmware thingy
Please Ship Nvidia GPUs for Framework laptop.
Also please increase the charger output. Its too low for heavy duty task even while pluged in. 😬🙏
I was just searching on the future plans of Framework Laptops yesterday and you uploaded this today:)
And yet Nirav always deflects on future plans. Frustrating
@@MySonicDragon I know right.
@@MySonicDragonhe has to do that. You have to pretend secretive as a company for many reasons unrelated to your ideology.
Framework is by far the most open brand out there. If you are running a company you have to keep quite about some issues due to NDAs or other leagl issues even if you personally don't want to. Same kind of thing happened when framework was in talks with Louis Roseman for schematics. Its quite unease territory and framework doing its best to be handel it without getting more corporate.
I bought an Asus ProArt the other week. Constant instability and or BSOD when running off the battery. Maybe that was a sign. Might hop onto framework
I'm not first; I'm just really excited to be able to watch four minutes after the video was uploaded. Also happy that Framework has come this far.
Love my batch 4. 11th gen framework
Josh, I hope the mobile intel chips aren't affected. If they are, I can only hope lenovo will release amd versions of their legion lineup sometime this year. Otherwise, I'd have to settle for a thinkpad p1 gen 7 solely for work and only game on a desktop instead. 😞
We are watching this closely btw re mobile Intel chips
@@JustJoshTech love your content btw, you and jarrod are my favorite by far.
@@nameless_stranger thanks
@@nameless_stranger The mobile chips, I think only the top HX parts have a chance of being affected. But even them, because they're in laptops, have a) better binning for power efficiency and b) slightly lower normal and boost frequencies. In practice that means they should also be configured to use less voltage, which seems to be the main culprit. Also, the story started getting big several months ago already and the only thing I heard about laptops is the possiblity that they are affected and that in the top HX SKUs which are basically the same as the desktop chips.
But I do hope that Intel as a whole is not that much affected. Their dealing with the situation is really REALLY bad and that can have very negative and long lasting implications.
@Winnetou17 if I remember correctly, only the I9 has the same die as a desktop chip.
I'd love to give their products a try, but they only ship to a limited list of countries, and mine is not on that list 😅.
Framework please make 21-22" version with sockatable CPU and option for hot swap 2,5" drives, with big vapor chamber heatsink, like full successor for clevo p870
Linux sleep mode is glitchy on a lot of laptops. Sometimes because of the old kernel in distribution, sometimes because of a specific distro configuration. I had huge issues with Linux MX which I solved with a bit of tinkering.
Unfortunately, I do not think it will be easy to fix it for all Linux distribution. Maybe it would be possible to work with the maintainers of the most popular ones (Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Linux MX, Fedora) to include necessary tweaks for new releases.
Framework does support Ubuntu and Fedora IIRC. So they only have to make it work there.
Touch screen and haptic trackpad would be great additions.
A 14 inch Framework with a track point would be amazing
Oh god, to hell with trackpoint people. Fix the touchpad palm rejection first please.
I'd prefer a trackpoint for other reasons than palm rejection being poor under Linux.
@@jamesbuckwas6575 I have a funny laptop that has absolutely perfect palm rejection under Linux and garbage palm rejection under Windows. Nevertheless, he stated that palm rejection was troublesome under both Windows and Linux on the Framework, so it's probably a good idea to fix an existing essential feature before introducing new ones.
The webcam is cool and all, but real innovation would be a drop-in replacement changing my camera to a GPS (still with kill switch).
MY BOY IS YAPPIN IN THIS GAH DAMN
Hi Josh, I have the same laptop as you, I'm using the Framework Laptop 13 with AMD 7840U. But mine has a issue connecting to an external display via USB-C on ports 1 and 3 (USB4 ports).
I've tested a few scenarios, there are only 2 scenarios where I can use my external display with my framework laptop. 1) When my laptop has 95% and above, or 2) When I have a power source charging my laptop on a different port. When I'm in either one of these scenarios, then my framework 13 can charge and project/extend to the external display at the same time. Else it will show an error message at the bottom right corner "Display connection might be limited". The laptop will attempt to project/extend to the external display when connected. The screen on my laptop will become smaller during the attempt to connect to the external display and maximize back to full size. But the external display will remain blank, and my framework laptop will try to project/extend to the external display again repeatedly.
I've tested it with different laptops, cables, monitors, the latest drivers, updates & BIOS 3.05, but the issue persists. Do you have this issue with yours? Do you know any way to solve this issue?
The post-video note is incredible - it shouldn't be, but it is! This should be standard, whether placed at the start or end
Would be curious to hear more about LPCAM 2 and what framework thinks of adding it to its products. Also when they think it will be on the market, ddr5 or will it become standard for DDR6?
I’m in review hell at this point. I considered the Dell Precision 7860 9i with 64 GB (but didn’t expect the price to be that exorbitant!) so I switched to considering the Yoga Ultra 9 with 32GB and now I see people talking about the HP specter instead! I need something suitable for a programmer who runs multiple apps, works with VMs and large data sets. 32GB is cool but I prefer 64GB because this laptop has to be future proof. I’m done with MacBooks, I prefer windows now because windows laptops perform better with the apps I use for work.
will you be able to secure chips without spyware in the firmware ? Could you consider a high performance boards with duel RISC5 chips and a AI chip for Ai from grafcore ?
Even though I much prefer ARM to x86 in general, I wouldn't mind if Framework skipped Qualcomm boards completely. Intel too, of course. I'd rather have a decent AMD board for x86 compatibility now and eventually a RISC-V one to break free from x86, but I can't see too many reasons for using ARM in a laptop TBH, at least not now after seeing the early benchmarks of Ryzen 300. If I could I'd already have pre-ordered a Framework 16 with Ryzen 370 (or better) and at least 96 GiB of ECC RAM, especially if it had a touchpad similar to older MacBooks (not a huge one like those more recent laptops).
Actually, speaking of MacBooks, maybe the biggest argument for having laptops with ARM CPUs is easier porting of software to Apple silicon? But there are still so many differences other than the ISA that I doubt it's significant enough to be a consideration.
I wonder if they'll go all AMD in the future given how much better their iGPU graphics performance is than intel. performance is better or on par too.
I don't think Qualcomm will be licensing their ARM chips to Framework anytime soon, so they're going to have to continue with x86.
also I'd like to see them drop their prices a little bit. The cost of entry is just a little too high with not enough storage and RAM compared to just getting a surface laptop 7 (ARM) with 16gb ram for $1000. and add a touchscreen option please lol
@@nintendork07 Not to mention the legal suit over Qualcomm's Nuvia acquisition (stupid that ARM would hurt their biggest licensee).
@@cameronbosch1213They're very.. protective. Losing Qualcomm's licensing arrangements is quite a huge loss. Their fight is predictable, independent of their success.
The weird part is that arm jacked up licensing fees early last year, after Qualcomm announced their Oryon plans in 2022. They seem to be jealous as "other companies are making billions while they are making millions" according to an article. So they want a cut of the smartphone sales as well. But they're more of a research and licensing company, and Risc V is also a threat to their business. They're supposed to be more competitive, bringing more to the table to encourage customers away from x86 or other architectures.
They got a license renewal with Apple late last year btw. Pretty lucrative imo.
Absolutely love my Framework 16. The price is too high for normal laptop consumers, but it's an incredible piece of kit. Cannot wait to keep it for years and years.
Also, absolutely running Linux on it.
Ow I am very early topic is framework to its normal.
I would love a very customizable, rootable, modifiable phone with high-end hardware from Framework.
Really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks Josh and Nirav!
My framework is 4yo now and has been mostly great. However i have replaced the mainboard twice. Usbc monitors that provide charge seem to kill the usb ports
Covered both times Under warranty?
@@RichWithTech Doubt that's the case. He mentioned his monitors as the issue. I don't see why Framework would have to cover it.
i still have la aptop from 2007 that i still use as a music player (connected to a dac)
Impressive what brand and model?
If there was an option to put in something like an old school Thinkpad keyboard (as in the X220 or T420) , I would seriously pay $500+ for the privilege over a standard Framework laptop.
Really interesting! Great work Josh and team 👍
A thin version of the 16 without a D-GPU would be perfect :)
framework 13 tablet with the power of reusing the 13s mainboard :)
Any Touchscreen down the road?
If I had to choose, OLED would be better than touch. But maybe both ❤
A good screen with slim bezels and low fan noise and a decent cpu wirh good battery life and it's a buy for me
From XMG reddit
In order to make full advantage of the promised iGPU and NPU performance, in 2024, AMD supports Strix Point on FP8 only with LPDDR5X memory, which is typically soldered. XMG EVO however is designed for upgradable SO-DIMM with up to 96 GB of total capacity.
Based on preliminary roadmap information, there is a chance that AMD will support Strix Point on a slightly modified FP8 platform with SO-DIMM in the future, but this is yet to be confirmed. At any rate, this is not planned to happen before 2025, and it would still require a new mainboard layout when going from FP7r2 to FP8.
This video is why this channel is the best of its kind on the web
A Framework Tablet that beats anything in the market would be nice
still cant decide if I want a 13 or 16
1. Snapdragon versions
2. Sensel or any good hapti touchpad w/o palm rejection issues
3. 1.5mm key travel keyboard
4. good level battery life
5. 14 inchh screen size if possible
Thank you framework for what youre doing and not falling for dumby keys which bring up pwas
quad dolby atmos speakers 5w speakers
keep it up Josh & Team!
Great interview with a great company!
I’d love a screen without plastic trim
Then the FW is not for you. That magnetic bezel is honestly one of their most underrated inventions.
Framework 16 owner (Batch 6 preorder) - very happy that I did not chose to buy new MacBook pro and chose framework instead. Yes, mac has better display (marginally), sound and trackpad - but boy I hate their OS, RAM is of price of gold and overall feel of them forcing me to use their product as they want. (Fedora runs beautifully on Framework)
My biggest complaints are:
1. The sound is horrible, just horrible. Use headphones or portable speaker. My GF MacBook air M1 has way better sound, it's not even close.
2. Touch pad not the best, not the worst - like general windows laptop - I would want something better, preferably in single unit without spacers - spacers make laptop look ugly.
3. Display has light blead, in most use cases not noticeable but on black it is noticeable. I would be nice to have ability to buy OLED, I would not dare to buy OLED on any other laptop - but here it is replaceable so I not so much afraid of burning.
Nice video🎉
Unsolicited feedback: My dream laptop would be a macbook air without notch, slightly thicker with bigger battery, x86, one extra USBC on the right and an SD slot on the right. Internal memory should be a CAMM module.
+user upgradable SSD
@@RichWithTech true that
great collaboration between best tech channel and best tech company :)
Launch this in India. With fee service centers around the country ...this is going to be sb instant hit.
I got a framework, its pretty awesome!
I can't wait for touch screen!!!!!!!
Josh, will you do a review of the G16 with the new AMD processor? I want to know if its better than the Yoga Pro 9i
This is quite the coup, very nice.
Just keep on expanding Linux support. Debian and Arch would be nice.
I would love to have a Trackpoint (eraser-head mouse pointer between the G and H keys) on my Framework. I think Framework would have to make a licensing deal with IBM, Lenovo, Toshiba, or whomever owns the patents and trademarks to the Trackpoint. I wonder whether those terms would be favorable enough to justify the price, or whether the Trackpoint owner is even willing to license it out anymore. I would also like to see Framework import and resell in the USA the Fairphone repairable smartphone which is currently sold in Europe.
Yes but when the review of the zenbook s16?
Is it videoconferencing with Grado headphones?
Would have like to have gone thru a scenario of upgrading the display.
Better touchpad would be great ngl
How does Framework deal with Strix Point and Lunar Lake both requiring non upgradeable RAM?
Strix point supports DDR5 5600.
I'm guessing Framework will skip Lunar Lake and go straight to Arrow Lake mobile which will support DDR5.
I'm personally hoping they move to LP-CAMM2 soon, but I don't see them moving to that for a while.
is it available in india ?
I think Framework just needs to work on the pricing of these laptops considering they are comparable to other devices if you just opted for accidental damage protection/extended warranty. I really think the adoption hurdle is giving people a cheaper alternative to have the peace of mind that their computer wil last them a long time
Since they’re so upgradable they could look at a more “bare bones” entry levels model with small ram storage and no/ IO
@@RichWithTechyou can already buy a Version with any amount of RAM and only one USB c Port
Exactly. The fact that replacing the laptop every 3 years is as expensive as upgrading the framework within the same timeframe is annoying. Makes it hard to justify
@davitdavid7165 It actually isn't. The upfront price of Framework's laptops are slightly higher, but upgrading that often not only creates e-waste, you have to do a backup of your data, you have to hope that the OEM doesn't ruin their laptops in three years, and it comes out more expensive in the end. Not to mention we'll eventually hit a plateau of screens, performance, etc.
@cameronbosch1213 at any given generation there has to be at least 1 oem who makes a good model and you can just go with that. The data thing is equally true for framework, as deleting and reinstalling all drivers as you switch to a new board will be a lot of work and unoptimised, so you will transfer it with an external ssd or something. Ehen it comes to external features they seem to get better with every generation. I wonder when the framework chassis will become outdated and what will happen then.
When it comes to ewaste I do agree completely. I do think most consumers will not put it above value though. As for myself, I am planning to keep mine for 2 more years (7 total) and selling it used or donating it to a repair shop.
I heard the cost analysis from dave2d if I remember correctly, don't know how true that is exactly, especially when we can not predict future pricing.
Well they shouldn't brag about their camera quality judging from this video call 🤣
does framework plan to expand to other region? I can't officially buy framework from Indonesia yet
I should have asked this. Good question
Pls could you reveiw the "Huawei Mate Book X Pro"
I really want to buy the laptop 😢 But I'm not sure if it's worth it
while we will not use these laptops to train AI on them, we will be using them to run genAI. And I bet more games and consumer grade applications will start working with local AI more and more.
Why framework laptop don't have touch and stus support besides 16 inch screen with numpad.
Not sure which laptop/webcam he's using but it does not look very good here
Still no global shipping, what a waste.
What a guy
Any plans for expansion to other countries like Singapore or Hong Kong? Great job reaching Taiwan 😁