There were some - moreover, oddly and unbelievably enough, they came from Apple 😅 Remember PowerPC upgrades for m68k Macs (including PowerBooks) in the mid-90s?
Just wanted to say how INSANE it is that a hardware manufacturer is not jus talking about but putting out videos discussing RISC-V! Seriously an amazingly positive step in the tech world
The reason they're cool is because there's nothing stopping anyone from making a Snapdragon X board either, except currently you only have a small market of one specific laptop manufacturer.
@@Tailslolits really an investment into RISC-V, they are putting their money towards a more open future, one which will eventually return the investment in spades when they no longer have to pay licensing fees. He's talking about it now
I am loving the open source ecosystem framework has created, I would love to see more products on the marketplace that support this! It would be great to see adapters show up (and maybe even housings) to let us use our old batteries as portable chargers and our old screens as portable monitors!
That has to be one of the coolest thing about framework laptops. You can take your existing x86 laptop, plop a new board in and now it's a risc-v laptop. Really neat.
Unlike another massive computer companies offerings, this board doesn't have incredibly fast SSD NAND flash storage onboard for swap. If you actually end up using MicroSD or MMC for swap the experience is misery. I do agree though, in 2024, when all applications are massive javascript frameworks that run in the browser and consume numerous gigabytes of ram, 8gb is awful light for a primary device.
@jonathanwilson8809 8GB ram is 8GB ram regardless of the architecture (or the kind of things apple would like you to belive on their macbooks for example), difference of course being that framework are being honest about it
@@jonathanwilson8809 to take Lars-ju9pw's comment and put it in your context specifically, 8 GiB of RAM is enough for run-of-the-mill consumer apps, *if* you have a reasonably fast SSD (for swap as they mentioned). MicroSD cards generally don't do it, and though eMMC is possible to get fast enough, it's nowhere near as easy as finding a fast NVMe SSD, which this mainboard does not have a slot for. It's not really a question of RISC-V vs x86 or ARM, it's support for fast storage. More RAM can make up for the lack of fast storage, in some ways, so the meta is more RAM = more speed, especially for multitasking. (Or keeping ungodly numbers of tabs open 🙃 )
@@microcolonel Honestly, even if all I had to do was bring coffee but I could watch them work that'd be pretty cool lol. (Though that applies more to the physical bits, harder to watch people code)
I'm having a intern from France, she could do anything if I ask, she value the opportunity been given, I'm amazed with her enthusiasm and passion to learn things. She can do overtime, rest day work etc, I pay nothing to her but the Government pay her 800 Euros a month.
I love that Framework is encouraging third party manufacturers to create compatible products and is releasing documentation. I really hope that this openness will lead to the Framework becoming the "IBM PC of Laptops" and having a whole ecosystem of modular Laptops and laptop parts.
That would seriously be HUGE. I've been wanting to have a **fully** open source machine for so long (including hardware, firmware and software) without having to go back to the 80's. This finally makes it possible.
I like that most of the videos I've seen don't look like their super high cost shoots in studios. I feel like they just call each other and set up a good camera and just talk, looks natural, I like it.
This is a huge leap in technology that might just fly under the radar. The missing link between an academic project and a consumer product. I'm aware many things will be at the raw end and many others might need development in order to make it to market: NVMe and SODIMM support are a few I can come up from the top of my head. Im happy with all of that. Framework is making history.
@@spdcrzy I had this discussion the other day with my manager about setting up a hackathon. Surprisingly engineers actually enjoy building cool stuff when they're given the time and capability to do so.
@@DrStoic91 zero sensibility for those who cant afford new pcs, or for poorer countries, if you cant be productive with less than 8 gigs you cant with more either, average apple user mindset right there.
@@OkarinHououinKyouma 8 gigs is barely enough if you run a modern browser with webs full of JavaScript and want to do more than just scroll through social media.
4 месяца назад+114
direction where framework company is going is very cool. looking forward for what is coming next :)
This is making me consider a framework laptop even more now! I just got a VisionFive2 board a few months ago and It has the same RISC-V CPU that the new Framework mainboard will have. The Linux kernel >=6.11 will have improved RISC-V support which means it will be a lot easier to get this hardware up and running. I bet the framework mainboard will need similar patches to be upstreamed eventually (maybe for the device tree).
riscv64 Linux Kernel v6.11-rc4 packages landed in Debian experimental archive 23rd Aug 2024, with JH7110 CPU enabled for PCIe host. This includes basic devicetree hardware support of VisionFive2, Star64, Mars, Mars CM (by using the Mars devicetree which is similar). Eager to see patches for the deepcomputing products get posted for mainline Linux and upstream U-Boot inclusion ?
Just here pushing for the RUclips algorithm. I won't be contributing to developing RISC-V further but I as a consumer will further support and evangalize Framework. Some of my friends got sparkling eyes when I showed them my Framework 16. So far, I am really happy I waited for so long.
I’m glad you’re offering this. I’ve been following RISC V since the beginning and it’s gonna require these kinds of products that “aren’t really competitive” to get the ecosystem jumpstarted and get the silicon better.
Just wanted to say that, aside from what you do and the impact being incredible, you're actually VERY good at content marketing. Like, I'm a visual designer and front-end dev so let's just say CPU architecture is waaaaaay over my head. Despite that, this was very nice to watch, and you've both done a great job of making this intelligible and interesting even for neophytes, and to be authentic. Your passion shines through the end result. Congrats! 👏 I look foward to watching more.
This is so awesome. One of the last features on the list of "top requests" was an ARM board, and DeepComputing has enabled you guys to just skip over ARM altogether. Regardless of how "usable" this board will become once it has driver and kernel support, it'll, at the very least, become the definitive way for programmers to work with RISC-V. I'm hopeful that it will be profitable for you guys and the various companies involved, and I'm excited for the future of cheaper, faster, and more reliable computers.
Hah, the C3 and Crusoe references are apt. Very very exciting to get some variety once again. I miss the days when your motherboard had a socket and what vendor ended up in that socket was up to you.
To be fair, sockets of those days were designed by Intel for their own products, and other manufacturers just followed their "de facto standard". Part of why that's no longer possible likely is intellectual property, but undoubtedly a big part is that CPUs just got more complicated and sophisticated and between manufacturers or even generations, the CPUs are just too different to fit the same set of signals. Oddly enough, during mid-to-late 90s it was Apple who offered greater flexibility in CPU upgrades, putting Mac CPUs on cards, with upgrade cards often available from third party companies, and many Macs from that era being upgradeable across multiple CPU generations - in some cases even across ISAs (m68k to PowerPC).
@@kFY514 Yes and no; AMD keeps their sockets going for several generations of cores; AM4 started in 2016 with Excavator-based Athlons and is apparently still getting new Ryzen parts in 2024. Not overlapping with AM4, but back in the Opteron era, there were FPGAs from both Altera and Xilinx that not only spoke the HyperTransport protocol, but dropped directly into an Opteron socket in a multi-socket motherboard. So there were other parties making chips (albeit not CPUs). Also perhaps Transmeta might've had an Efficieon CPU that fit an Opteron socket but I'm finding it hard to confirm that. I suspect that diversity could've been carried forward into the AM4 era if the market forces were there. Third-party CPUs in an AMD board would be pretty neat, and perhaps there's an alternate branch of the timeline out there where Risc-V is just another click on PCPartPicker.
I can't wait for the future when both my hardware and software are open source! Anyone else think Intel ME and AMD's equivalent are a little sus? My next laptop will for sure be the AMD 13, I just need to save up and for there to be a touch screen option available!
@@enderpirate9887 I think at least some Tier 1 vendors still allow blowing the ME fuse permanently in the BIOS, but it would be nice to not be forced to have a little proprietary computer inside of an otherwise fully open-source laptop.
No. They're not a little sus, they're highly sus, as is the size of the firmware they run. RISC-V is in no way immune to this; e.g. the SG2042 has an ARM core with full system access running a proprietary firmware. It's nominal job is to set up the memory controller, but it's not very good at that.
RISC-V has learned from past architectures and the companies behind them. They've all been developed by companies trying to make money on the licenses. Which works and is a legitimate business approach - but doesn't work for every customer. That's the reason why there are some architectures that are similar to MIPS but not compatible. Their designers simply opted to go for something that doesn't involve a licensing contract and an expensive architecture license. Just like the original RISC concept from the early 80s was an evolution of existing architectures RISC-V has taken the RISC concept back to the drawing board and cleaned it up. That's an opportunity which only opens up every few decades or so and it may well be this was even the last time a new general purpose CPU architecture will be able to deliver significant gain.
I like the fact that the word "ecosystem" is used a LOT by Nirav. Really shows that he, and Framework as a whole, isn't about them but about everyone. It takes lots of different actors, some working with eachother some against eachother to create an ecosystem. Can't wait to see more actors like DeepComputing get in that said ecosystem.
Assuming the firmware for it is also fully open, the privacy paranoid people might absolutely love this. I've been playing around with riscv in an emulator but to see actuall developer ready hardware that has an actual plan going forwards, not just a tech demo, is pretty cool. Might get one just for fun at some point.
This is absolutely amazing!!! 🎉 Proud to be a Framework laptop holder, and excited to buy the RV64 mainboard! I do wish it had a few more PCI lanes to support an NVMe, but it's an awesome entry-point to the ecosystem.
So cool. This video inspired me to finally get my first Framework laptop and the RISC-V mainboard when it comes out. I've done some stuff like this in the past (like porting Android onto early iPhone hardware) so it'll be fun to hack on this for a good cause!
That was fascinating, would love more discussions about all these topics, maybe with the other companies cited here. Thanks for everything you're doing, beautiful people @ Framework
Nice, I'm really excited that framework is again pushing the industry forward! I'm really excited to try out the RISC-V board, just to experiment with a bit of lightweight linux. As a NixOS enthusiast, it'd love to try cross-compiling a system image for RISC-V :)
Really important initiative. That's the way. Framework just got another volunteer collaborator. We, as society, NEED to dissociate from this complete dependence on proprietary garbage set to obsolescence.
Mega exciting to see this coming! Would like to see a roadmap, list or something for what's still TBD to have consumer ready competitive perf RISC-V hardware for the masses
I really like what you people are doing... the fact that almost everything is replaceable and upgradable is just *chefs kiss*..... I'm still a student tho.... I'll have to wait a few years to get my hands on one of your laptops
I really like the possibilities of an open ISA RISC-V processor. But I'm really impressed by the amount of "like" he uses while talking. Atonishing! Made me remember some youngsters I saw having a chat. Kudos, by the way!
Framework is awesome and I love what they’re doing. I hope no one has a problem with them running ads on their RUclips channel to make extra money, I certainly don’t care, we all need a lil extra nowadays.
RISC is an architectual concept, not a particular instruction set. The R in ARM stood for RISC (of course they've rebranded since). RISC-V is also not the first attempt at an open one, e.g. that V is there for a reason, and OpenRISC exists (including in silicon).
Will be interesting to see how RISC-V develops. I think there could have been more introduction with the RISC architecture (and how it was advertised as the alternative to Intel's CISC based architecture in the 80s). Back then, there were companies like Sun, IBM, Motorola that could develop expensive mainframe computers that used the first RISC architecture for high end graphics or mathematical simulation. Power PC computers (IBM and Macs) were an example of RISC: ARM being a later RISC architecture. While they all tried to meet RISC standards, they staid commercial and proprietary for easier development/ support for enterprise applications (and became complex in their own right). Then also philosophies in processor architecture became further gray by the time of Pentium MMX/ X64 (when Intel processors also incorporated RISC like instructions in some segments of the processor). In short, the hype about RISC vs CISC processors in the 80s just produced processors that are hybrids of both.
This is so sick. I'm loving watching this new product category emerge. It's so cool to watch something go from nothing at all, to something that can have early adopters. I really hope this succeeds, I'm so serious, I would love to have a risc-v primary system at some point in the future.
The GhostWrite vulnerability doesn't impact every use case. Many systems, especially embedded systems and clusters, operate in environments without unprivileged users or unauthorized operators, making the risk minimal. In such scenarios, it may be more practical to use lightweight architectures that aren't burdened by extensive security countermeasures, which can unnecessarily increase both development costs and reduce performance. Many other architectures face similar vulnerabilities, and certain operating systems have persistent flaws that may overshadow any hardware-related issues. If an architecture's performance and energy efficiency are significantly improved by minimizing security measures, it remains a viable solution for specific applications. There are plenty of other options when dealing with systems that involve many untrusted users. Where RISC-V could offer the most value is not necessarily in competing with established architectures, but by focusing on areas where it excels. It may even be wise to develop two distinct RISC-V lines: one optimized for raw performance, as it currently stands, and another designed with more security-focused use cases in mind, catering to environments with unprivileged or end-users.
The process and the potential for other mainboards is incredibly exciting, more so than risc-v in its current state. Desktop class arm would be interesting and hopefully we will see more powerful riscv on future.
I really hope and want this company to continue forward. about to order my first framework device and I would love a riscV board!!! please continue!!!!
This represents the smashing of monopolies in the computing market,the speeding up of innovation,the response to market of new chips and hardware. This simulates innovation, excuses used to not led RISC 5 damage margins is a business protection issue. However, the Ukraine war and take over of Russia by china is seen as a national security issue for sanction policy. The most interesting statement is the possibly of using RISC 5 chips in multi locations on the board at reasonable price. The use of enterprise systems such as Openindiana is very appealing.
Framework, you're a real Chad! Thank you for the work you are doing. My next laptop will definitely be one from you! A question: Do you plan to use LPCAMM2 RAM modules?
Yes, I bought one. I’m working on this board as well as the boiler-f3 and getting Ubuntu 24 on them. Already have Ubuntu running on bpi-f3 but I need to solve the u-boot issue and other things. Great video.
I would love it if Framework sold its components not only as part of a notebook, but also in the form of a mini PC. These usually contain the same SoCs and have the same problems of inadequate modularity and lack of upgrade options. This would "simply" require a housing that leaves out the corresponding components of the laptop, wouldn't it?
How does one distribute a pre-compiled binary with so many instruction set possibilities? Is it recommended to only distribute source code to then be compiled on the target machine?
Asking for a friend- why is the language layer integrated with the binary layer in the CPU? Could there even be a CPU that ran binaries from...the air?
I wonder what firmware they ware going to provide for this main board. RISC-V International has various specifications for UEFI and ACPI requirements but some of the specifications, such as the Boot and Runtime Services (BRS) specification, have not yet been ratified.
Is there going to be a SWD (Does Risc-V have SWD?) & JTAG header on that board? Making that accessible would be helpful for loading new OSes on to it. Something like RedoxOS.
Really want to be running RedoxOS on a Risc-v laptop, ideally framework but potentially deepcomputings dc roma in the meantime (and framework later). Presumably these use open source firmware? Coreboot or what?
Never has there been a laptop that can change entire architectures with just a couple of screws! incredibly cool!
There were some - moreover, oddly and unbelievably enough, they came from Apple 😅 Remember PowerPC upgrades for m68k Macs (including PowerBooks) in the mid-90s?
@@kFY514 I'm quite sure this was not a laptop...
@@Pauel3312 PowerPC upgrade cards were available for the PowerBook 500 series and PowerBook 190, which were indeed laptops.
Never?
@@Pauel3312 PowerPC upgrade cards were available for the PowerBook 500 series and PowerBook 190, which definitely were laptops.
Just wanted to say how INSANE it is that a hardware manufacturer is not jus talking about but putting out videos discussing RISC-V! Seriously an amazingly positive step in the tech world
Not many companies made the jump from x86_64 to RISC-V directly, most jumped first to ARM, this is one of the reasons why Framework is cool.
The reason they're cool is because there's nothing stopping anyone from making a Snapdragon X board either, except currently you only have a small market of one specific laptop manufacturer.
This is more a test than a jump... Don't expect they stick to ot or even big performance.but this is good to see a RISC laptop for development.
not that much difference as marketing is saying.
@@Tailslolits really an investment into RISC-V, they are putting their money towards a more open future, one which will eventually return the investment in spades when they no longer have to pay licensing fees. He's talking about it now
RISC V is Linux of architecture
I am loving the open source ecosystem framework has created, I would love to see more products on the marketplace that support this! It would be great to see adapters show up (and maybe even housings) to let us use our old batteries as portable chargers and our old screens as portable monitors!
3DPrint and Laser CNC is a good easy option since is all SourceAvailable.
DIY it!
That's not what open source is. Framework is just open.
@@yeox1929 good point, thanks for the correction
source available but youtube deleted my comment
@@yeox1929 ok but community addons are usually open source
That has to be one of the coolest thing about framework laptops. You can take your existing x86 laptop, plop a new board in and now it's a risc-v laptop. Really neat.
Imagine, someone makes a dual motherboard laptop case
If you're changing the motherboard can you really call it the "existing" laptop
@abdullahtrees5204 we're getting into ship of Theseus territory here, but I'd say it's still the same laptop. Most of the parts are the same
@@abdullahtrees5204most definitely. Same screen, same keyboard, same case, same disk, same peripherals.
Plus, this RISC-V board is really cheap.
My favorite part of this interview was how he described 8GB or DRAM as "maybe not enough for real consumer ready workloads"
Unlike another massive computer companies offerings, this board doesn't have incredibly fast SSD NAND flash storage onboard for swap. If you actually end up using MicroSD or MMC for swap the experience is misery. I do agree though, in 2024, when all applications are massive javascript frameworks that run in the browser and consume numerous gigabytes of ram, 8gb is awful light for a primary device.
My laptop has 8GB of RAM. Does RISC-V require a lot more RAM? How much RAM would you need on RISC-V for the same performance as 8GB on x86 roughly?
@jonathanwilson8809 8GB ram is 8GB ram regardless of the architecture (or the kind of things apple would like you to belive on their macbooks for example), difference of course being that framework are being honest about it
@@jonathanwilson8809 to take Lars-ju9pw's comment and put it in your context specifically, 8 GiB of RAM is enough for run-of-the-mill consumer apps, *if* you have a reasonably fast SSD (for swap as they mentioned). MicroSD cards generally don't do it, and though eMMC is possible to get fast enough, it's nowhere near as easy as finding a fast NVMe SSD, which this mainboard does not have a slot for.
It's not really a question of RISC-V vs x86 or ARM, it's support for fast storage. More RAM can make up for the lack of fast storage, in some ways, so the meta is more RAM = more speed, especially for multitasking. (Or keeping ungodly numbers of tabs open 🙃 )
@oggilein1 yeah I know 8gb is 8gb but doesn't risc require more ram for the same program in cisco?
As a computer science student I'm excited that framework has interns.
Of course, someone has to bring the coffee. (Just joking ofc).
I mean, no need to joke about that. The interns should bring the coffee, why not? @@GeFlixes
@@microcolonel Honestly, even if all I had to do was bring coffee but I could watch them work that'd be pretty cool lol.
(Though that applies more to the physical bits, harder to watch people code)
@@NorbiPeti my first software job in loved me spending (too much) time at other people's desks picking their brains. :+ )
I'm having a intern from France, she could do anything if I ask, she value the opportunity been given, I'm amazed with her enthusiasm and passion to learn things. She can do overtime, rest day work etc, I pay nothing to her but the Government pay her 800 Euros a month.
Never had more respect for this guy for just handing out documentation to whoever wants to build mainboards for their laptops. Amazing.
Hey! I like knowing that a single hinge sensor can completely brick my laptop with no ability to fix it myself.... /s
And he did a really good quick summary of x86 v arm v risc-v!
Thanks for keeping the expectations realistic and not over-glazing the current state of RISC-V
I love that Framework is encouraging third party manufacturers to create compatible products and is releasing documentation. I really hope that this openness will lead to the Framework becoming the "IBM PC of Laptops" and having a whole ecosystem of modular Laptops and laptop parts.
That would seriously be HUGE.
I've been wanting to have a **fully** open source machine for so long (including hardware, firmware and software) without having to go back to the 80's. This finally makes it possible.
I like that most of the videos I've seen don't look like their super high cost shoots in studios. I feel like they just call each other and set up a good camera and just talk, looks natural, I like it.
Framework is becoming a standard similar to ATX. LOVE IT
This is a huge leap in technology that might just fly under the radar. The missing link between an academic project and a consumer product. I'm aware many things will be at the raw end and many others might need development in order to make it to market: NVMe and SODIMM support are a few I can come up from the top of my head.
Im happy with all of that. Framework is making history.
SODIMM might be too late, though the new LPCAMM standard would certainly last a while
@@Demopans5990 The point is the same: No soldered memory or storage. Keep it upgradable.
the board itself does have an m.2 socket for nvme, but they're using it for wifi instead of storage 😐
@@keyinau just strap a wifi-enabled SSD to the laptop
@@swedneck & put WiFi in the USB port :)
Love that I could soon have the risc-v / linux laptop
That board was nicely built, it looks almost like a factory Framework product!
Yea, we were amazed by how far they were able to get on the first iteration!
@@FrameworkComputer To be fair, this is what happens when you actually give smart people the tools to allow this kind of design freedom.
@@spdcrzy I had this discussion the other day with my manager about setting up a hackathon. Surprisingly engineers actually enjoy building cool stuff when they're given the time and capability to do so.
@morosis82 enjoy building is an understatement. That's why we leave third world to come do it where we will be appropriated and encouraged
I've been hoping for an ARM or RISC-V laptop from Framework and always thought I was dreaming. Man I hope this works out.
I really like how Nirav mentioned that the 8gb memory is not enough for the consumers. Unlike u know who thinks that 8g is enough.
cringe comment, spoiled rotten.
This! (Apple.)
@@DrStoic91 zero sensibility for those who cant afford new pcs, or for poorer countries, if you cant be productive with less than 8 gigs you cant with more either, average apple user mindset right there.
I think 8GiB is enough for daily casual usage...
@@OkarinHououinKyouma 8 gigs is barely enough if you run a modern browser with webs full of JavaScript and want to do more than just scroll through social media.
direction where framework company is going is very cool.
looking forward for what is coming next :)
This is making me consider a framework laptop even more now!
I just got a VisionFive2 board a few months ago and It has the same RISC-V CPU that the new Framework mainboard will have. The Linux kernel >=6.11 will have improved RISC-V support which means it will be a lot easier to get this hardware up and running. I bet the framework mainboard will need similar patches to be upstreamed eventually (maybe for the device tree).
riscv64 Linux Kernel v6.11-rc4 packages landed in Debian experimental archive 23rd Aug 2024, with JH7110 CPU enabled for PCIe host. This includes basic devicetree hardware support of VisionFive2, Star64, Mars, Mars CM (by using the Mars devicetree which is similar). Eager to see patches for the deepcomputing products get posted for mainline Linux and upstream U-Boot inclusion ?
Just here pushing for the RUclips algorithm. I won't be contributing to developing RISC-V further but I as a consumer will further support and evangalize Framework. Some of my friends got sparkling eyes when I showed them my Framework 16. So far, I am really happy I waited for so long.
Sirs and Madams.... this IS HUGE! A great manufacturer putting their foot forward with RISC-V! Amazing, team! Keep it up!
I’m glad you’re offering this. I’ve been following RISC V since the beginning and it’s gonna require these kinds of products that “aren’t really competitive” to get the ecosystem jumpstarted and get the silicon better.
The future is bright - thank you Framework for supporting it!
Patterson and crew at U Berkeley must be very proud to see this come to fruition
Go Bears!
You got me! This will be my entry into the framework ecosystem. I'm excited to build software on and for RISC-V 🤩
Just wanted to say that, aside from what you do and the impact being incredible, you're actually VERY good at content marketing.
Like, I'm a visual designer and front-end dev so let's just say CPU architecture is waaaaaay over my head. Despite that, this was very nice to watch, and you've both done a great job of making this intelligible and interesting even for neophytes, and to be authentic. Your passion shines through the end result. Congrats! 👏
I look foward to watching more.
This is so awesome. One of the last features on the list of "top requests" was an ARM board, and DeepComputing has enabled you guys to just skip over ARM altogether. Regardless of how "usable" this board will become once it has driver and kernel support, it'll, at the very least, become the definitive way for programmers to work with RISC-V. I'm hopeful that it will be profitable for you guys and the various companies involved, and I'm excited for the future of cheaper, faster, and more reliable computers.
Hah, the C3 and Crusoe references are apt. Very very exciting to get some variety once again. I miss the days when your motherboard had a socket and what vendor ended up in that socket was up to you.
Crusoe! That's what it was. What a weird processor.
To be fair, sockets of those days were designed by Intel for their own products, and other manufacturers just followed their "de facto standard". Part of why that's no longer possible likely is intellectual property, but undoubtedly a big part is that CPUs just got more complicated and sophisticated and between manufacturers or even generations, the CPUs are just too different to fit the same set of signals.
Oddly enough, during mid-to-late 90s it was Apple who offered greater flexibility in CPU upgrades, putting Mac CPUs on cards, with upgrade cards often available from third party companies, and many Macs from that era being upgradeable across multiple CPU generations - in some cases even across ISAs (m68k to PowerPC).
@@kFY514 Good points, I saw my share of Daystar and Sonnet upgrades for beige Macs.
@@kFY514 Yes and no; AMD keeps their sockets going for several generations of cores; AM4 started in 2016 with Excavator-based Athlons and is apparently still getting new Ryzen parts in 2024.
Not overlapping with AM4, but back in the Opteron era, there were FPGAs from both Altera and Xilinx that not only spoke the HyperTransport protocol, but dropped directly into an Opteron socket in a multi-socket motherboard. So there were other parties making chips (albeit not CPUs). Also perhaps Transmeta might've had an Efficieon CPU that fit an Opteron socket but I'm finding it hard to confirm that.
I suspect that diversity could've been carried forward into the AM4 era if the market forces were there. Third-party CPUs in an AMD board would be pretty neat, and perhaps there's an alternate branch of the timeline out there where Risc-V is just another click on PCPartPicker.
VIA is still have license to produce x86 chips, but I guess they are not using it.
I can't wait for the future when both my hardware and software are open source! Anyone else think Intel ME and AMD's equivalent are a little sus? My next laptop will for sure be the AMD 13, I just need to save up and for there to be a touch screen option available!
@@enderpirate9887 I think at least some Tier 1 vendors still allow blowing the ME fuse permanently in the BIOS, but it would be nice to not be forced to have a little proprietary computer inside of an otherwise fully open-source laptop.
No. They're not a little sus, they're highly sus, as is the size of the firmware they run. RISC-V is in no way immune to this; e.g. the SG2042 has an ARM core with full system access running a proprietary firmware. It's nominal job is to set up the memory controller, but it's not very good at that.
Board looks really nice! You guys are doing such awesome stuff, hopefully the company lives long and prospers!
I really love stories like this, huge respect to Framework.
RISC-V has learned from past architectures and the companies behind them. They've all been developed by companies trying to make money on the licenses. Which works and is a legitimate business approach - but doesn't work for every customer. That's the reason why there are some architectures that are similar to MIPS but not compatible. Their designers simply opted to go for something that doesn't involve a licensing contract and an expensive architecture license.
Just like the original RISC concept from the early 80s was an evolution of existing architectures RISC-V has taken the RISC concept back to the drawing board and cleaned it up. That's an opportunity which only opens up every few decades or so and it may well be this was even the last time a new general purpose CPU architecture will be able to deliver significant gain.
I like the fact that the word "ecosystem" is used a LOT by Nirav.
Really shows that he, and Framework as a whole, isn't about them but about everyone.
It takes lots of different actors, some working with eachother some against eachother to create an ecosystem. Can't wait to see more actors like DeepComputing get in that said ecosystem.
He's talked about it in previous interviews. Their business strategy is definitely built around the idea.
Assuming the firmware for it is also fully open, the privacy paranoid people might absolutely love this. I've been playing around with riscv in an emulator but to see actuall developer ready hardware that has an actual plan going forwards, not just a tech demo, is pretty cool. Might get one just for fun at some point.
This is absolutely amazing!!! 🎉 Proud to be a Framework laptop holder, and excited to buy the RV64 mainboard! I do wish it had a few more PCI lanes to support an NVMe, but it's an awesome entry-point to the ecosystem.
I've been thinking about that for a very long time. I'm really happy to see it's being implemented! Amazing!
So cool. This video inspired me to finally get my first Framework laptop and the RISC-V mainboard when it comes out. I've done some stuff like this in the past (like porting Android onto early iPhone hardware) so it'll be fun to hack on this for a good cause!
That was fascinating, would love more discussions about all these topics, maybe with the other companies cited here. Thanks for everything you're doing, beautiful people @ Framework
so cool, so happy you guys are doing this. proud framework owner here!
Love this, looking forward to the future success of this company!!!
Nice, I'm really excited that framework is again pushing the industry forward!
I'm really excited to try out the RISC-V board, just to experiment with a bit of lightweight linux. As a NixOS enthusiast, it'd love to try cross-compiling a system image for RISC-V :)
Really important initiative. That's the way. Framework just got another volunteer collaborator. We, as society, NEED to dissociate from this complete dependence on proprietary garbage set to obsolescence.
Mega exciting to see this coming! Would like to see a roadmap, list or something for what's still TBD to have consumer ready competitive perf RISC-V hardware for the masses
Wow, looks like RISC-V can permanently change the FW13 and 16 for good basically, making the 'tops feel better to use!
I really like what you people are doing... the fact that almost everything is replaceable and upgradable is just *chefs kiss*..... I'm still a student tho.... I'll have to wait a few years to get my hands on one of your laptops
way cool. i'm pumped to buy the consumer version in the future.
Wow! ❤ You guys are awesome, very exciting to see RISC-V gaining traction. Great video, well produced, and presented
Wait, what! This is great. What a day to be alive
Since the first framework has been released I am waiting for my notebook to fail to buy a framework to support what you are doing!
Love my new Framework 16!!
I expect the NixOS experience is going to be so janky at first, haha. I'm excited!! RISC-V is finally starting to happen!! Let's gooooooo!!!
framework is doing cool stuff. this interview is very nice.
I really like the possibilities of an open ISA RISC-V processor. But I'm really impressed by the amount of "like" he uses while talking. Atonishing! Made me remember some youngsters I saw having a chat. Kudos, by the way!
Also, I'd LOVE to see an OpenPOWER implementation!
Finally a reason to make me interested in Framework.
I love everything about this.
Framework is awesome and I love what they’re doing. I hope no one has a problem with them running ads on their RUclips channel to make extra money, I certainly don’t care, we all need a lil extra nowadays.
Note that RISC instruction set is older than ARM, ARM itself is an proprietary IP initially built based on RISCs open standard
RISC is an architectual concept, not a particular instruction set. The R in ARM stood for RISC (of course they've rebranded since). RISC-V is also not the first attempt at an open one, e.g. that V is there for a reason, and OpenRISC exists (including in silicon).
Nice - finally a reason to get a Framework!
Will be interesting to see how RISC-V develops. I think there could have been more introduction with the RISC architecture (and how it was advertised as the alternative to Intel's CISC based architecture in the 80s). Back then, there were companies like Sun, IBM, Motorola that could develop expensive mainframe computers that used the first RISC architecture for high end graphics or mathematical simulation. Power PC computers (IBM and Macs) were an example of RISC: ARM being a later RISC architecture. While they all tried to meet RISC standards, they staid commercial and proprietary for easier development/ support for enterprise applications (and became complex in their own right). Then also philosophies in processor architecture became further gray by the time of Pentium MMX/ X64 (when Intel processors also incorporated RISC like instructions in some segments of the processor). In short, the hype about RISC vs CISC processors in the 80s just produced processors that are hybrids of both.
2 months in with AMD Ryzen 7 7840U, no regrets - excellent processing speed and keyboard feel! This is cool too!
I'm so happy to see this! I love the concept of risk-V, but haven't played around with it yet. I will definitely try this if I can afford it!
This is so sick. I'm loving watching this new product category emerge. It's so cool to watch something go from nothing at all, to something that can have early adopters. I really hope this succeeds, I'm so serious, I would love to have a risc-v primary system at some point in the future.
I really hope RISC-V development keeps up. Good to see framework backing it
The GhostWrite vulnerability doesn't impact every use case. Many systems, especially embedded systems and clusters, operate in environments without unprivileged users or unauthorized operators, making the risk minimal. In such scenarios, it may be more practical to use lightweight architectures that aren't burdened by extensive security countermeasures, which can unnecessarily increase both development costs and reduce performance. Many other architectures face similar vulnerabilities, and certain operating systems have persistent flaws that may overshadow any hardware-related issues.
If an architecture's performance and energy efficiency are significantly improved by minimizing security measures, it remains a viable solution for specific applications. There are plenty of other options when dealing with systems that involve many untrusted users.
Where RISC-V could offer the most value is not necessarily in competing with established architectures, but by focusing on areas where it excels. It may even be wise to develop two distinct RISC-V lines: one optimized for raw performance, as it currently stands, and another designed with more security-focused use cases in mind, catering to environments with unprivileged or end-users.
RISC-V is so cool. I'm surprised that companies haven't already started to invest in and adopt it.
The process and the potential for other mainboards is incredibly exciting, more so than risc-v in its current state. Desktop class arm would be interesting and hopefully we will see more powerful riscv on future.
I really hope and want this company to continue forward. about to order my first framework device and I would love a riscV board!!! please continue!!!!
Framework is listening to us the consumer and I love it.
This represents the smashing of monopolies in the computing market,the speeding up of innovation,the response to market of new chips and hardware. This simulates innovation, excuses used to not led RISC 5 damage margins is a business protection issue. However, the Ukraine war and take over of Russia by china is seen as a national security issue for sanction policy.
The most interesting statement is the possibly of using RISC 5 chips in multi locations on the board at reasonable price. The use of enterprise systems such as Openindiana is very appealing.
Framework, you're a real Chad! Thank you for the work you are doing. My next laptop will definitely be one from you!
A question: Do you plan to use LPCAMM2 RAM modules?
Yes, I bought one. I’m working on this board as well as the boiler-f3 and getting Ubuntu 24 on them. Already have Ubuntu running on bpi-f3 but I need to solve the u-boot issue and other things. Great video.
I would love it if Framework sold its components not only as part of a notebook, but also in the form of a mini PC. These usually contain the same SoCs and have the same problems of inadequate modularity and lack of upgrade options. This would "simply" require a housing that leaves out the corresponding components of the laptop, wouldn't it?
great videography
I just hope Framework comes to India soon. I want my first ARM laptop to be a framework
While I am not target audience for RISC-V I think this is ULTRA COOL 👍 when I buy a new laptop I hope Framework is available in my country 😀
I am am so excited for this.
This is such a good explanation!
Thats really nice to see! Risc v is an incredible interesting architecture
Very nice to see this! Just one thing: There is a tablet that also runs RISC-V that I got reminded of: The Pine64 PineTab-V
I hope my next computer uses RISC-V -- the hardware I have now should last plenty of time as I wait!
The future is bright!!!
And this is why I love Framework!
That's amazing! I can't wait to buy a upgradable RISC-V laptop!
How does one distribute a pre-compiled binary with so many instruction set possibilities? Is it recommended to only distribute source code to then be compiled on the target machine?
I'm just a power hipster looking to try running Haiku on this thing
The impact of risc-v open hardware architecture will be as profound as Linux OS and open source software. Can't wait for its finalization.
Asking for a friend- why is the language layer integrated with the binary layer in the CPU? Could there even be a CPU that ran binaries from...the air?
Really interesting! I'd heard of RISC-V, but didn't understand what exactly it was. Now I know :) The future of computing looks exciting!
I wonder what firmware they ware going to provide for this main board. RISC-V International has various specifications for UEFI and ACPI requirements but some of the specifications, such as the Boot and Runtime Services (BRS) specification, have not yet been ratified.
Is LPCAMM RAM planned for any future boards? It would be really nice because it has the upgradability of SODIMM but the powerdraw of LPDDR
Are you developing an ARM Snapdragon X board that will be actually usable?
I subscribed after this video.
this is a perfect match for Framework
I cannot Not to express my excitement of this moment that is happening
Curious if jtag will be available on the board for low level debugging?
Don’t forget Cyrix when talking x86! I was able to build myself a computer when I was broke because of it!
you guys are the best. How wonderful...
Is there going to be a SWD (Does Risc-V have SWD?) & JTAG header on that board? Making that accessible would be helpful for loading new OSes on to it. Something like RedoxOS.
Really want to be running RedoxOS on a Risc-v laptop, ideally framework but potentially deepcomputings dc roma in the meantime (and framework later). Presumably these use open source firmware? Coreboot or what?