Just wanted to say how INSANE it is that a hardware manufacturer is not jus talking about but putting out videos discussing RISC-V! Seriously an amazingly positive step in the tech world
There were some - moreover, oddly and unbelievably enough, they came from Apple 😅 Remember PowerPC upgrades for m68k Macs (including PowerBooks) in the mid-90s?
The reason they're cool is because there's nothing stopping anyone from making a Snapdragon X board either, except currently you only have a small market of one specific laptop manufacturer.
@@Tailslolits really an investment into RISC-V, they are putting their money towards a more open future, one which will eventually return the investment in spades when they no longer have to pay licensing fees. He's talking about it now
I am loving the open source ecosystem framework has created, I would love to see more products on the marketplace that support this! It would be great to see adapters show up (and maybe even housings) to let us use our old batteries as portable chargers and our old screens as portable monitors!
That has to be one of the coolest thing about framework laptops. You can take your existing x86 laptop, plop a new board in and now it's a risc-v laptop. Really neat.
Unlike another massive computer companies offerings, this board doesn't have incredibly fast SSD NAND flash storage onboard for swap. If you actually end up using MicroSD or MMC for swap the experience is misery. I do agree though, in 2024, when all applications are massive javascript frameworks that run in the browser and consume numerous gigabytes of ram, 8gb is awful light for a primary device.
@jonathanwilson8809 8GB ram is 8GB ram regardless of the architecture (or the kind of things apple would like you to belive on their macbooks for example), difference of course being that framework are being honest about it
@@jonathanwilson8809 to take Lars-ju9pw's comment and put it in your context specifically, 8 GiB of RAM is enough for run-of-the-mill consumer apps, *if* you have a reasonably fast SSD (for swap as they mentioned). MicroSD cards generally don't do it, and though eMMC is possible to get fast enough, it's nowhere near as easy as finding a fast NVMe SSD, which this mainboard does not have a slot for. It's not really a question of RISC-V vs x86 or ARM, it's support for fast storage. More RAM can make up for the lack of fast storage, in some ways, so the meta is more RAM = more speed, especially for multitasking. (Or keeping ungodly numbers of tabs open 🙃 )
@@microcolonel Honestly, even if all I had to do was bring coffee but I could watch them work that'd be pretty cool lol. (Though that applies more to the physical bits, harder to watch people code)
I'm having a intern from France, she could do anything if I ask, she value the opportunity been given, I'm amazed with her enthusiasm and passion to learn things. She can do overtime, rest day work etc, I pay nothing to her but the Government pay her 800 Euros a month.
I love that Framework is encouraging third party manufacturers to create compatible products and is releasing documentation. I really hope that this openness will lead to the Framework becoming the "IBM PC of Laptops" and having a whole ecosystem of modular Laptops and laptop parts.
That would seriously be HUGE. I've been wanting to have a **fully** open source machine for so long (including hardware, firmware and software) without having to go back to the 80's. This finally makes it possible.
@@spdcrzy I had this discussion the other day with my manager about setting up a hackathon. Surprisingly engineers actually enjoy building cool stuff when they're given the time and capability to do so.
I like that most of the videos I've seen don't look like their super high cost shoots in studios. I feel like they just call each other and set up a good camera and just talk, looks natural, I like it.
This is a huge leap in technology that might just fly under the radar. The missing link between an academic project and a consumer product. I'm aware many things will be at the raw end and many others might need development in order to make it to market: NVMe and SODIMM support are a few I can come up from the top of my head. Im happy with all of that. Framework is making history.
@@DrStoic91 zero sensibility for those who cant afford new pcs, or for poorer countries, if you cant be productive with less than 8 gigs you cant with more either, average apple user mindset right there.
@@OkarinHououinKyouma 8 gigs is barely enough if you run a modern browser with webs full of JavaScript and want to do more than just scroll through social media.
This is making me consider a framework laptop even more now! I just got a VisionFive2 board a few months ago and It has the same RISC-V CPU that the new Framework mainboard will have. The Linux kernel >=6.11 will have improved RISC-V support which means it will be a lot easier to get this hardware up and running. I bet the framework mainboard will need similar patches to be upstreamed eventually (maybe for the device tree).
riscv64 Linux Kernel v6.11-rc4 packages landed in Debian experimental archive 23rd Aug 2024, with JH7110 CPU enabled for PCIe host. This includes basic devicetree hardware support of VisionFive2, Star64, Mars, Mars CM (by using the Mars devicetree which is similar). Eager to see patches for the deepcomputing products get posted for mainline Linux and upstream U-Boot inclusion ?
Just here pushing for the RUclips algorithm. I won't be contributing to developing RISC-V further but I as a consumer will further support and evangalize Framework. Some of my friends got sparkling eyes when I showed them my Framework 16. So far, I am really happy I waited for so long.
Hah, the C3 and Crusoe references are apt. Very very exciting to get some variety once again. I miss the days when your motherboard had a socket and what vendor ended up in that socket was up to you.
To be fair, sockets of those days were designed by Intel for their own products, and other manufacturers just followed their "de facto standard". Part of why that's no longer possible likely is intellectual property, but undoubtedly a big part is that CPUs just got more complicated and sophisticated and between manufacturers or even generations, the CPUs are just too different to fit the same set of signals. Oddly enough, during mid-to-late 90s it was Apple who offered greater flexibility in CPU upgrades, putting Mac CPUs on cards, with upgrade cards often available from third party companies, and many Macs from that era being upgradeable across multiple CPU generations - in some cases even across ISAs (m68k to PowerPC).
@@kFY514 Yes and no; AMD keeps their sockets going for several generations of cores; AM4 started in 2016 with Excavator-based Athlons and is apparently still getting new Ryzen parts in 2024. Not overlapping with AM4, but back in the Opteron era, there were FPGAs from both Altera and Xilinx that not only spoke the HyperTransport protocol, but dropped directly into an Opteron socket in a multi-socket motherboard. So there were other parties making chips (albeit not CPUs). Also perhaps Transmeta might've had an Efficieon CPU that fit an Opteron socket but I'm finding it hard to confirm that. I suspect that diversity could've been carried forward into the AM4 era if the market forces were there. Third-party CPUs in an AMD board would be pretty neat, and perhaps there's an alternate branch of the timeline out there where Risc-V is just another click on PCPartPicker.
I’m glad you’re offering this. I’ve been following RISC V since the beginning and it’s gonna require these kinds of products that “aren’t really competitive” to get the ecosystem jumpstarted and get the silicon better.
Just wanted to say that, aside from what you do and the impact being incredible, you're actually VERY good at content marketing. Like, I'm a visual designer and front-end dev so let's just say CPU architecture is waaaaaay over my head. Despite that, this was very nice to watch, and you've both done a great job of making this intelligible and interesting even for neophytes, and to be authentic. Your passion shines through the end result. Congrats! 👏 I look foward to watching more.
Assuming the firmware for it is also fully open, the privacy paranoid people might absolutely love this. I've been playing around with riscv in an emulator but to see actuall developer ready hardware that has an actual plan going forwards, not just a tech demo, is pretty cool. Might get one just for fun at some point.
This is so awesome. One of the last features on the list of "top requests" was an ARM board, and DeepComputing has enabled you guys to just skip over ARM altogether. Regardless of how "usable" this board will become once it has driver and kernel support, it'll, at the very least, become the definitive way for programmers to work with RISC-V. I'm hopeful that it will be profitable for you guys and the various companies involved, and I'm excited for the future of cheaper, faster, and more reliable computers.
I can't wait for the future when both my hardware and software are open source! Anyone else think Intel ME and AMD's equivalent are a little sus? My next laptop will for sure be the AMD 13, I just need to save up and for there to be a touch screen option available!
@@enderpirate9887 I think at least some Tier 1 vendors still allow blowing the ME fuse permanently in the BIOS, but it would be nice to not be forced to have a little proprietary computer inside of an otherwise fully open-source laptop.
No. They're not a little sus, they're highly sus, as is the size of the firmware they run. RISC-V is in no way immune to this; e.g. the SG2042 has an ARM core with full system access running a proprietary firmware. It's nominal job is to set up the memory controller, but it's not very good at that.
I like the fact that the word "ecosystem" is used a LOT by Nirav. Really shows that he, and Framework as a whole, isn't about them but about everyone. It takes lots of different actors, some working with eachother some against eachother to create an ecosystem. Can't wait to see more actors like DeepComputing get in that said ecosystem.
This is absolutely amazing!!! 🎉 Proud to be a Framework laptop holder, and excited to buy the RV64 mainboard! I do wish it had a few more PCI lanes to support an NVMe, but it's an awesome entry-point to the ecosystem.
RISC-V has learned from past architectures and the companies behind them. They've all been developed by companies trying to make money on the licenses. Which works and is a legitimate business approach - but doesn't work for every customer. That's the reason why there are some architectures that are similar to MIPS but not compatible. Their designers simply opted to go for something that doesn't involve a licensing contract and an expensive architecture license. Just like the original RISC concept from the early 80s was an evolution of existing architectures RISC-V has taken the RISC concept back to the drawing board and cleaned it up. That's an opportunity which only opens up every few decades or so and it may well be this was even the last time a new general purpose CPU architecture will be able to deliver significant gain.
Mega exciting to see this coming! Would like to see a roadmap, list or something for what's still TBD to have consumer ready competitive perf RISC-V hardware for the masses
So cool. This video inspired me to finally get my first Framework laptop and the RISC-V mainboard when it comes out. I've done some stuff like this in the past (like porting Android onto early iPhone hardware) so it'll be fun to hack on this for a good cause!
That was fascinating, would love more discussions about all these topics, maybe with the other companies cited here. Thanks for everything you're doing, beautiful people @ Framework
Nice, I'm really excited that framework is again pushing the industry forward! I'm really excited to try out the RISC-V board, just to experiment with a bit of lightweight linux. As a NixOS enthusiast, it'd love to try cross-compiling a system image for RISC-V :)
RISC is an architectual concept, not a particular instruction set. The R in ARM stood for RISC (of course they've rebranded since). RISC-V is also not the first attempt at an open one, e.g. that V is there for a reason, and OpenRISC exists (including in silicon).
I really like what you people are doing... the fact that almost everything is replaceable and upgradable is just *chefs kiss*..... I'm still a student tho.... I'll have to wait a few years to get my hands on one of your laptops
I really like the possibilities of an open ISA RISC-V processor. But I'm really impressed by the amount of "like" he uses while talking. Atonishing! Made me remember some youngsters I saw having a chat. Kudos, by the way!
Framework is awesome and I love what they’re doing. I hope no one has a problem with them running ads on their RUclips channel to make extra money, I certainly don’t care, we all need a lil extra nowadays.
Really important initiative. That's the way. Framework just got another volunteer collaborator. We, as society, NEED to dissociate from this complete dependence on proprietary garbage set to obsolescence.
The process and the potential for other mainboards is incredibly exciting, more so than risc-v in its current state. Desktop class arm would be interesting and hopefully we will see more powerful riscv on future.
This is so sick. I'm loving watching this new product category emerge. It's so cool to watch something go from nothing at all, to something that can have early adopters. I really hope this succeeds, I'm so serious, I would love to have a risc-v primary system at some point in the future.
The GhostWrite vulnerability doesn't impact every use case. Many systems, especially embedded systems and clusters, operate in environments without unprivileged users or unauthorized operators, making the risk minimal. In such scenarios, it may be more practical to use lightweight architectures that aren't burdened by extensive security countermeasures, which can unnecessarily increase both development costs and reduce performance. Many other architectures face similar vulnerabilities, and certain operating systems have persistent flaws that may overshadow any hardware-related issues. If an architecture's performance and energy efficiency are significantly improved by minimizing security measures, it remains a viable solution for specific applications. There are plenty of other options when dealing with systems that involve many untrusted users. Where RISC-V could offer the most value is not necessarily in competing with established architectures, but by focusing on areas where it excels. It may even be wise to develop two distinct RISC-V lines: one optimized for raw performance, as it currently stands, and another designed with more security-focused use cases in mind, catering to environments with unprivileged or end-users.
I really hope and want this company to continue forward. about to order my first framework device and I would love a riscV board!!! please continue!!!!
Framework, you're a real Chad! Thank you for the work you are doing. My next laptop will definitely be one from you! A question: Do you plan to use LPCAMM2 RAM modules?
Will be interesting to see how RISC-V develops. I think there could have been more introduction with the RISC architecture (and how it was advertised as the alternative to Intel's CISC based architecture in the 80s). Back then, there were companies like Sun, IBM, Motorola that could develop expensive mainframe computers that used the first RISC architecture for high end graphics or mathematical simulation. Power PC computers (IBM and Macs) were an example of RISC: ARM being a later RISC architecture. While they all tried to meet RISC standards, they staid commercial and proprietary for easier development/ support for enterprise applications (and became complex in their own right). Then also philosophies in processor architecture became further gray by the time of Pentium MMX/ X64 (when Intel processors also incorporated RISC like instructions in some segments of the processor). In short, the hype about RISC vs CISC processors in the 80s just produced processors that are hybrids of both.
Yes, I bought one. I’m working on this board as well as the boiler-f3 and getting Ubuntu 24 on them. Already have Ubuntu running on bpi-f3 but I need to solve the u-boot issue and other things. Great video.
I would love it if Framework sold its components not only as part of a notebook, but also in the form of a mini PC. These usually contain the same SoCs and have the same problems of inadequate modularity and lack of upgrade options. This would "simply" require a housing that leaves out the corresponding components of the laptop, wouldn't it?
RISC-V mainboard definitely makes framework an even more compelling thing to tinker with... might spring for it early even though I don't exactly need a new laptop just yet 🤔
This represents the smashing of monopolies in the computing market,the speeding up of innovation,the response to market of new chips and hardware. This simulates innovation, excuses used to not led RISC 5 damage margins is a business protection issue. However, the Ukraine war and take over of Russia by china is seen as a national security issue for sanction policy. The most interesting statement is the possibly of using RISC 5 chips in multi locations on the board at reasonable price. The use of enterprise systems such as Openindiana is very appealing.
I love how there is a GAN 87 backup for the development addon for the gen 2. I'm strongly considering buying as I can hook up allot of ai based camaras to this contraption.
This is simply amazing, and I can’t wait for what people do with this! Going the opposite way for a minute (completely closed source), what are the chances that we’ll see a framework motherboard with a Qualcomm chip somewhere in the near future? I hate their ethos as a company, but the battery longevity arm processors provide can’t be denied. I’m hoping we can see more arm competition in the Windows space at some point!
It may be worth mentioning that Qualcomm is a Premier Member of RISC-V International. So, perhaps someday you'll be able to get a RISC-V Qualcomm chip based system. That's the real beauty of RISC-V: Anyone can build a RISC-V chip. Some will be proprietary, some will be open source. There are many of both kinds already, they're just on the lower end of the performance spectrum so far as mentioned in the video. But over time, they'll catch up.
@@pscheie that would be great! I would be looking in the short term while that happens for an entering college student that needs the maximum battery life in a laptop that may be somewhat abused (which is why framework is great since parts can easily be replaced)!
Really nice work, next thing you guys need is a 2 in 1 Tablet like the Surface or the V3 from Minisforum, would love a tablet that is repairable and upgradeable.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Just wanted to say how INSANE it is that a hardware manufacturer is not jus talking about but putting out videos discussing RISC-V! Seriously an amazingly positive step in the tech world
Never has there been a laptop that can change entire architectures with just a couple of screws! incredibly cool!
There were some - moreover, oddly and unbelievably enough, they came from Apple 😅 Remember PowerPC upgrades for m68k Macs (including PowerBooks) in the mid-90s?
@@kFY514 I'm quite sure this was not a laptop...
@@Pauel3312 PowerPC upgrade cards were available for the PowerBook 500 series and PowerBook 190, which were indeed laptops.
Never?
@@Pauel3312 PowerPC upgrade cards were available for the PowerBook 500 series and PowerBook 190, which definitely were laptops.
Not many companies made the jump from x86_64 to RISC-V directly, most jumped first to ARM, this is one of the reasons why Framework is cool.
The reason they're cool is because there's nothing stopping anyone from making a Snapdragon X board either, except currently you only have a small market of one specific laptop manufacturer.
This is more a test than a jump... Don't expect they stick to ot or even big performance.but this is good to see a RISC laptop for development.
not that much difference as marketing is saying.
@@Tailslolits really an investment into RISC-V, they are putting their money towards a more open future, one which will eventually return the investment in spades when they no longer have to pay licensing fees. He's talking about it now
RISC V is Linux of architecture
I am loving the open source ecosystem framework has created, I would love to see more products on the marketplace that support this! It would be great to see adapters show up (and maybe even housings) to let us use our old batteries as portable chargers and our old screens as portable monitors!
3DPrint and Laser CNC is a good easy option since is all SourceAvailable.
DIY it!
That's not what open source is. Framework is just open.
@@yeox1929 good point, thanks for the correction
source available but youtube deleted my comment
@@yeox1929 ok but community addons are usually open source
That has to be one of the coolest thing about framework laptops. You can take your existing x86 laptop, plop a new board in and now it's a risc-v laptop. Really neat.
Imagine, someone makes a dual motherboard laptop case
If you're changing the motherboard can you really call it the "existing" laptop
@abdullahtrees5204 we're getting into ship of Theseus territory here, but I'd say it's still the same laptop. Most of the parts are the same
@@abdullahtrees5204most definitely. Same screen, same keyboard, same case, same disk, same peripherals.
Plus, this RISC-V board is really cheap.
My favorite part of this interview was how he described 8GB or DRAM as "maybe not enough for real consumer ready workloads"
Unlike another massive computer companies offerings, this board doesn't have incredibly fast SSD NAND flash storage onboard for swap. If you actually end up using MicroSD or MMC for swap the experience is misery. I do agree though, in 2024, when all applications are massive javascript frameworks that run in the browser and consume numerous gigabytes of ram, 8gb is awful light for a primary device.
My laptop has 8GB of RAM. Does RISC-V require a lot more RAM? How much RAM would you need on RISC-V for the same performance as 8GB on x86 roughly?
@jonathanwilson8809 8GB ram is 8GB ram regardless of the architecture (or the kind of things apple would like you to belive on their macbooks for example), difference of course being that framework are being honest about it
@@jonathanwilson8809 to take Lars-ju9pw's comment and put it in your context specifically, 8 GiB of RAM is enough for run-of-the-mill consumer apps, *if* you have a reasonably fast SSD (for swap as they mentioned). MicroSD cards generally don't do it, and though eMMC is possible to get fast enough, it's nowhere near as easy as finding a fast NVMe SSD, which this mainboard does not have a slot for.
It's not really a question of RISC-V vs x86 or ARM, it's support for fast storage. More RAM can make up for the lack of fast storage, in some ways, so the meta is more RAM = more speed, especially for multitasking. (Or keeping ungodly numbers of tabs open 🙃 )
@oggilein1 yeah I know 8gb is 8gb but doesn't risc require more ram for the same program in cisco?
As a computer science student I'm excited that framework has interns.
Of course, someone has to bring the coffee. (Just joking ofc).
I mean, no need to joke about that. The interns should bring the coffee, why not? @@GeFlixes
@@microcolonel Honestly, even if all I had to do was bring coffee but I could watch them work that'd be pretty cool lol.
(Though that applies more to the physical bits, harder to watch people code)
@@NorbiPeti my first software job in loved me spending (too much) time at other people's desks picking their brains. :+ )
I'm having a intern from France, she could do anything if I ask, she value the opportunity been given, I'm amazed with her enthusiasm and passion to learn things. She can do overtime, rest day work etc, I pay nothing to her but the Government pay her 800 Euros a month.
Never had more respect for this guy for just handing out documentation to whoever wants to build mainboards for their laptops. Amazing.
Hey! I like knowing that a single hinge sensor can completely brick my laptop with no ability to fix it myself.... /s
And he did a really good quick summary of x86 v arm v risc-v!
I love that Framework is encouraging third party manufacturers to create compatible products and is releasing documentation. I really hope that this openness will lead to the Framework becoming the "IBM PC of Laptops" and having a whole ecosystem of modular Laptops and laptop parts.
That would seriously be HUGE.
I've been wanting to have a **fully** open source machine for so long (including hardware, firmware and software) without having to go back to the 80's. This finally makes it possible.
That board was nicely built, it looks almost like a factory Framework product!
Yea, we were amazed by how far they were able to get on the first iteration!
@@FrameworkComputer To be fair, this is what happens when you actually give smart people the tools to allow this kind of design freedom.
@@spdcrzy I had this discussion the other day with my manager about setting up a hackathon. Surprisingly engineers actually enjoy building cool stuff when they're given the time and capability to do so.
@morosis82 enjoy building is an understatement. That's why we leave third world to come do it where we will be appropriated and encouraged
I like that most of the videos I've seen don't look like their super high cost shoots in studios. I feel like they just call each other and set up a good camera and just talk, looks natural, I like it.
This is a huge leap in technology that might just fly under the radar. The missing link between an academic project and a consumer product. I'm aware many things will be at the raw end and many others might need development in order to make it to market: NVMe and SODIMM support are a few I can come up from the top of my head.
Im happy with all of that. Framework is making history.
SODIMM might be too late, though the new LPCAMM standard would certainly last a while
@@Demopans5990 The point is the same: No soldered memory or storage. Keep it upgradable.
the board itself does have an m.2 socket for nvme, but they're using it for wifi instead of storage 😐
@@keyinau just strap a wifi-enabled SSD to the laptop
@@swedneck & put WiFi in the USB port :)
I've been hoping for an ARM or RISC-V laptop from Framework and always thought I was dreaming. Man I hope this works out.
direction where framework company is going is very cool.
looking forward for what is coming next :)
Love that I could soon have the risc-v / linux laptop
I really like how Nirav mentioned that the 8gb memory is not enough for the consumers. Unlike u know who thinks that 8g is enough.
cringe comment, spoiled rotten.
This! (Apple.)
@@DrStoic91 zero sensibility for those who cant afford new pcs, or for poorer countries, if you cant be productive with less than 8 gigs you cant with more either, average apple user mindset right there.
I think 8GiB is enough for daily casual usage...
@@OkarinHououinKyouma 8 gigs is barely enough if you run a modern browser with webs full of JavaScript and want to do more than just scroll through social media.
Thanks for keeping the expectations realistic and not over-glazing the current state of RISC-V
This is making me consider a framework laptop even more now!
I just got a VisionFive2 board a few months ago and It has the same RISC-V CPU that the new Framework mainboard will have. The Linux kernel >=6.11 will have improved RISC-V support which means it will be a lot easier to get this hardware up and running. I bet the framework mainboard will need similar patches to be upstreamed eventually (maybe for the device tree).
riscv64 Linux Kernel v6.11-rc4 packages landed in Debian experimental archive 23rd Aug 2024, with JH7110 CPU enabled for PCIe host. This includes basic devicetree hardware support of VisionFive2, Star64, Mars, Mars CM (by using the Mars devicetree which is similar). Eager to see patches for the deepcomputing products get posted for mainline Linux and upstream U-Boot inclusion ?
Framework is becoming a standard similar to ATX. LOVE IT
Just here pushing for the RUclips algorithm. I won't be contributing to developing RISC-V further but I as a consumer will further support and evangalize Framework. Some of my friends got sparkling eyes when I showed them my Framework 16. So far, I am really happy I waited for so long.
Sirs and Madams.... this IS HUGE! A great manufacturer putting their foot forward with RISC-V! Amazing, team! Keep it up!
Hah, the C3 and Crusoe references are apt. Very very exciting to get some variety once again. I miss the days when your motherboard had a socket and what vendor ended up in that socket was up to you.
Crusoe! That's what it was. What a weird processor.
To be fair, sockets of those days were designed by Intel for their own products, and other manufacturers just followed their "de facto standard". Part of why that's no longer possible likely is intellectual property, but undoubtedly a big part is that CPUs just got more complicated and sophisticated and between manufacturers or even generations, the CPUs are just too different to fit the same set of signals.
Oddly enough, during mid-to-late 90s it was Apple who offered greater flexibility in CPU upgrades, putting Mac CPUs on cards, with upgrade cards often available from third party companies, and many Macs from that era being upgradeable across multiple CPU generations - in some cases even across ISAs (m68k to PowerPC).
@@kFY514 Good points, I saw my share of Daystar and Sonnet upgrades for beige Macs.
@@kFY514 Yes and no; AMD keeps their sockets going for several generations of cores; AM4 started in 2016 with Excavator-based Athlons and is apparently still getting new Ryzen parts in 2024.
Not overlapping with AM4, but back in the Opteron era, there were FPGAs from both Altera and Xilinx that not only spoke the HyperTransport protocol, but dropped directly into an Opteron socket in a multi-socket motherboard. So there were other parties making chips (albeit not CPUs). Also perhaps Transmeta might've had an Efficieon CPU that fit an Opteron socket but I'm finding it hard to confirm that.
I suspect that diversity could've been carried forward into the AM4 era if the market forces were there. Third-party CPUs in an AMD board would be pretty neat, and perhaps there's an alternate branch of the timeline out there where Risc-V is just another click on PCPartPicker.
VIA is still have license to produce x86 chips, but I guess they are not using it.
I’m glad you’re offering this. I’ve been following RISC V since the beginning and it’s gonna require these kinds of products that “aren’t really competitive” to get the ecosystem jumpstarted and get the silicon better.
You got me! This will be my entry into the framework ecosystem. I'm excited to build software on and for RISC-V 🤩
The future is bright - thank you Framework for supporting it!
Just wanted to say that, aside from what you do and the impact being incredible, you're actually VERY good at content marketing.
Like, I'm a visual designer and front-end dev so let's just say CPU architecture is waaaaaay over my head. Despite that, this was very nice to watch, and you've both done a great job of making this intelligible and interesting even for neophytes, and to be authentic. Your passion shines through the end result. Congrats! 👏
I look foward to watching more.
Patterson and crew at U Berkeley must be very proud to see this come to fruition
Go Bears!
Assuming the firmware for it is also fully open, the privacy paranoid people might absolutely love this. I've been playing around with riscv in an emulator but to see actuall developer ready hardware that has an actual plan going forwards, not just a tech demo, is pretty cool. Might get one just for fun at some point.
Board looks really nice! You guys are doing such awesome stuff, hopefully the company lives long and prospers!
This is so awesome. One of the last features on the list of "top requests" was an ARM board, and DeepComputing has enabled you guys to just skip over ARM altogether. Regardless of how "usable" this board will become once it has driver and kernel support, it'll, at the very least, become the definitive way for programmers to work with RISC-V. I'm hopeful that it will be profitable for you guys and the various companies involved, and I'm excited for the future of cheaper, faster, and more reliable computers.
Very good and very interesting interview!
**
Très bon et très intéressant interview !
I really love stories like this, huge respect to Framework.
I can't wait for the future when both my hardware and software are open source! Anyone else think Intel ME and AMD's equivalent are a little sus? My next laptop will for sure be the AMD 13, I just need to save up and for there to be a touch screen option available!
@@enderpirate9887 I think at least some Tier 1 vendors still allow blowing the ME fuse permanently in the BIOS, but it would be nice to not be forced to have a little proprietary computer inside of an otherwise fully open-source laptop.
No. They're not a little sus, they're highly sus, as is the size of the firmware they run. RISC-V is in no way immune to this; e.g. the SG2042 has an ARM core with full system access running a proprietary firmware. It's nominal job is to set up the memory controller, but it's not very good at that.
I like the fact that the word "ecosystem" is used a LOT by Nirav.
Really shows that he, and Framework as a whole, isn't about them but about everyone.
It takes lots of different actors, some working with eachother some against eachother to create an ecosystem. Can't wait to see more actors like DeepComputing get in that said ecosystem.
He's talked about it in previous interviews. Their business strategy is definitely built around the idea.
This is absolutely amazing!!! 🎉 Proud to be a Framework laptop holder, and excited to buy the RV64 mainboard! I do wish it had a few more PCI lanes to support an NVMe, but it's an awesome entry-point to the ecosystem.
RISC-V has learned from past architectures and the companies behind them. They've all been developed by companies trying to make money on the licenses. Which works and is a legitimate business approach - but doesn't work for every customer. That's the reason why there are some architectures that are similar to MIPS but not compatible. Their designers simply opted to go for something that doesn't involve a licensing contract and an expensive architecture license.
Just like the original RISC concept from the early 80s was an evolution of existing architectures RISC-V has taken the RISC concept back to the drawing board and cleaned it up. That's an opportunity which only opens up every few decades or so and it may well be this was even the last time a new general purpose CPU architecture will be able to deliver significant gain.
Mega exciting to see this coming! Would like to see a roadmap, list or something for what's still TBD to have consumer ready competitive perf RISC-V hardware for the masses
So cool. This video inspired me to finally get my first Framework laptop and the RISC-V mainboard when it comes out. I've done some stuff like this in the past (like porting Android onto early iPhone hardware) so it'll be fun to hack on this for a good cause!
That was fascinating, would love more discussions about all these topics, maybe with the other companies cited here. Thanks for everything you're doing, beautiful people @ Framework
Nice, I'm really excited that framework is again pushing the industry forward!
I'm really excited to try out the RISC-V board, just to experiment with a bit of lightweight linux. As a NixOS enthusiast, it'd love to try cross-compiling a system image for RISC-V :)
I've been thinking about that for a very long time. I'm really happy to see it's being implemented! Amazing!
Love this, looking forward to the future success of this company!!!
so cool, so happy you guys are doing this. proud framework owner here!
Note that RISC instruction set is older than ARM, ARM itself is an proprietary IP initially built based on RISCs open standard
RISC is an architectual concept, not a particular instruction set. The R in ARM stood for RISC (of course they've rebranded since). RISC-V is also not the first attempt at an open one, e.g. that V is there for a reason, and OpenRISC exists (including in silicon).
I really like what you people are doing... the fact that almost everything is replaceable and upgradable is just *chefs kiss*..... I'm still a student tho.... I'll have to wait a few years to get my hands on one of your laptops
Framework laptops are amazing! I really can't wait to buy one!
way cool. i'm pumped to buy the consumer version in the future.
Wow, looks like RISC-V can permanently change the FW13 and 16 for good basically, making the 'tops feel better to use!
Wow! ❤ You guys are awesome, very exciting to see RISC-V gaining traction. Great video, well produced, and presented
Wait, what! This is great. What a day to be alive
I really like the possibilities of an open ISA RISC-V processor. But I'm really impressed by the amount of "like" he uses while talking. Atonishing! Made me remember some youngsters I saw having a chat. Kudos, by the way!
framework is doing cool stuff. this interview is very nice.
Since the first framework has been released I am waiting for my notebook to fail to buy a framework to support what you are doing!
Framework is awesome and I love what they’re doing. I hope no one has a problem with them running ads on their RUclips channel to make extra money, I certainly don’t care, we all need a lil extra nowadays.
Really important initiative. That's the way. Framework just got another volunteer collaborator. We, as society, NEED to dissociate from this complete dependence on proprietary garbage set to obsolescence.
The process and the potential for other mainboards is incredibly exciting, more so than risc-v in its current state. Desktop class arm would be interesting and hopefully we will see more powerful riscv on future.
This is so sick. I'm loving watching this new product category emerge. It's so cool to watch something go from nothing at all, to something that can have early adopters. I really hope this succeeds, I'm so serious, I would love to have a risc-v primary system at some point in the future.
I'm so happy to see this! I love the concept of risk-V, but haven't played around with it yet. I will definitely try this if I can afford it!
I love everything about this.
The GhostWrite vulnerability doesn't impact every use case. Many systems, especially embedded systems and clusters, operate in environments without unprivileged users or unauthorized operators, making the risk minimal. In such scenarios, it may be more practical to use lightweight architectures that aren't burdened by extensive security countermeasures, which can unnecessarily increase both development costs and reduce performance. Many other architectures face similar vulnerabilities, and certain operating systems have persistent flaws that may overshadow any hardware-related issues.
If an architecture's performance and energy efficiency are significantly improved by minimizing security measures, it remains a viable solution for specific applications. There are plenty of other options when dealing with systems that involve many untrusted users.
Where RISC-V could offer the most value is not necessarily in competing with established architectures, but by focusing on areas where it excels. It may even be wise to develop two distinct RISC-V lines: one optimized for raw performance, as it currently stands, and another designed with more security-focused use cases in mind, catering to environments with unprivileged or end-users.
I really hope and want this company to continue forward. about to order my first framework device and I would love a riscV board!!! please continue!!!!
Love my new Framework 16!!
Finally a reason to make me interested in Framework.
This is such a good explanation!
Nice - finally a reason to get a Framework!
Also, I'd LOVE to see an OpenPOWER implementation!
Framework, you're a real Chad! Thank you for the work you are doing. My next laptop will definitely be one from you!
A question: Do you plan to use LPCAMM2 RAM modules?
I expect the NixOS experience is going to be so janky at first, haha. I'm excited!! RISC-V is finally starting to happen!! Let's gooooooo!!!
Will be interesting to see how RISC-V develops. I think there could have been more introduction with the RISC architecture (and how it was advertised as the alternative to Intel's CISC based architecture in the 80s). Back then, there were companies like Sun, IBM, Motorola that could develop expensive mainframe computers that used the first RISC architecture for high end graphics or mathematical simulation. Power PC computers (IBM and Macs) were an example of RISC: ARM being a later RISC architecture. While they all tried to meet RISC standards, they staid commercial and proprietary for easier development/ support for enterprise applications (and became complex in their own right). Then also philosophies in processor architecture became further gray by the time of Pentium MMX/ X64 (when Intel processors also incorporated RISC like instructions in some segments of the processor). In short, the hype about RISC vs CISC processors in the 80s just produced processors that are hybrids of both.
I am am so excited for this.
Very nice to see this! Just one thing: There is a tablet that also runs RISC-V that I got reminded of: The Pine64 PineTab-V
2 months in with AMD Ryzen 7 7840U, no regrets - excellent processing speed and keyboard feel! This is cool too!
Yes, I bought one. I’m working on this board as well as the boiler-f3 and getting Ubuntu 24 on them. Already have Ubuntu running on bpi-f3 but I need to solve the u-boot issue and other things. Great video.
I would love it if Framework sold its components not only as part of a notebook, but also in the form of a mini PC. These usually contain the same SoCs and have the same problems of inadequate modularity and lack of upgrade options. This would "simply" require a housing that leaves out the corresponding components of the laptop, wouldn't it?
Framework is listening to us the consumer and I love it.
I really hope RISC-V development keeps up. Good to see framework backing it
Thats really nice to see! Risc v is an incredible interesting architecture
I just hope Framework comes to India soon. I want my first ARM laptop to be a framework
That's amazing! I can't wait to buy a upgradable RISC-V laptop!
I cannot Not to express my excitement of this moment that is happening
I hope my next computer uses RISC-V -- the hardware I have now should last plenty of time as I wait!
Really interesting! I'd heard of RISC-V, but didn't understand what exactly it was. Now I know :) The future of computing looks exciting!
RISC-V is so cool. I'm surprised that companies haven't already started to invest in and adopt it.
The future is bright!!!
you guys are the best. How wonderful...
RISC-V mainboard definitely makes framework an even more compelling thing to tinker with... might spring for it early even though I don't exactly need a new laptop just yet
🤔
While I am not target audience for RISC-V I think this is ULTRA COOL 👍 when I buy a new laptop I hope Framework is available in my country 😀
This represents the smashing of monopolies in the computing market,the speeding up of innovation,the response to market of new chips and hardware. This simulates innovation, excuses used to not led RISC 5 damage margins is a business protection issue. However, the Ukraine war and take over of Russia by china is seen as a national security issue for sanction policy.
The most interesting statement is the possibly of using RISC 5 chips in multi locations on the board at reasonable price. The use of enterprise systems such as Openindiana is very appealing.
And this is why I love Framework!
I already one with intel and eagerly waiting to get RISC V one asap
loved this interview
I love how there is a GAN 87 backup for the development addon for the gen 2. I'm strongly considering buying as I can hook up allot of ai based camaras to this contraption.
this is a perfect match for Framework
great videography
This is simply amazing, and I can’t wait for what people do with this!
Going the opposite way for a minute (completely closed source), what are the chances that we’ll see a framework motherboard with a Qualcomm chip somewhere in the near future? I hate their ethos as a company, but the battery longevity arm processors provide can’t be denied. I’m hoping we can see more arm competition in the Windows space at some point!
It may be worth mentioning that Qualcomm is a Premier Member of RISC-V International. So, perhaps someday you'll be able to get a RISC-V Qualcomm chip based system. That's the real beauty of RISC-V: Anyone can build a RISC-V chip. Some will be proprietary, some will be open source. There are many of both kinds already, they're just on the lower end of the performance spectrum so far as mentioned in the video. But over time, they'll catch up.
@@pscheie that would be great! I would be looking in the short term while that happens for an entering college student that needs the maximum battery life in a laptop that may be somewhat abused (which is why framework is great since parts can easily be replaced)!
That so cool. I would love to have a Raspberry PI compute module Mainboard too!
gods work right here
Really nice work, next thing you guys need is a 2 in 1 Tablet like the Surface or the V3 from Minisforum, would love a tablet that is repairable and upgradeable.
More videos like this please!
Just waiting to see if this can be purchased somewhere in Bangalore