He was taller in later years. He was also sick and weak as a kid. Keep in mind, he taught his first class at 16 years of age. He was very weak and never considered to be a strong guy. He was always skinny. And Carlos has openly given credit to Helio for Gracie Jiu Jitsu's evolution. Helio and his kids fought plenty of challenge matches, and Rickson fought Vale Tudo often.
There are old Vale Tudo videos from the 70's where Helio was leading his sons to victory and was the head of the clan. You have to keep in mind that Carlos was always given credit as grand master since he was the one that taught them Jiu Jitsu first. Helio is the one that changed it. If it weren't for Helio, that change wouldn't have happened because Carlos, being an athletic guy, had no need to alter moves to make them work. Carlos started the foundation, Helio made it the system it is today.
putz, esses caras nem poderiam imaginar que estavam aprendendo com os melhores! queria estar no lugar desses gringos, aprender com nimguém menos que Hélio Gracie!? isso não tem preço!
If you look up Mitsuyo Maeda's bio you'll see that he did not study Japanese Jujutsu at all. He studied Sumo and later Judo under founder Jigoro Kano, then traveled to Brazil and taught Judo under the name "Kano Jiu Jitsu" to make it more recognizable to westerners unfamiliar with Judo. Kano was a small man himself, and had already designed Judo to allow a smaller man to defeat a larger man using leverage. Carlos Gracie learned Judo from Maeda, and then Helio adapted Judo newaza to create BJJ.
By the way, I just verified that Carlos weighed 65 kg (143 lbs) making him heavier than Helio, who fought at 135 lbs. Later they weighed about the same, but it was common knowledge that Carlos was the stronger and more athletic of the two.
Okay, well first off, Carlos taught the Japanese Jiu Jitsu (not Judo) that Maeda taught him to fellow Brazilians. He didn't change anything. The change began when Helio, who was very weak and smaller, changed techniques so he could use leverage over the stronger guys. These were the first changes to take place in what eventually became Gracie Jiu Jitsu. That has always been the story. And Carlos died in 1994. Helio was given the credit WAY before that. He was leading the pack in the 70's...
just going by what Rorion and them were saying. When Carlos was still alive all brothers were given credit on changing the Judo they learned. Once Carlos died and Helio became the head, the story changed to Helio being the one that changed it.
What’s really interesting about this video, is that Rorion gives credit to all five of the original Gracie brothers for the development of the art 2:36-3:40. After the success of the first UFC event, Rorion and his side of the family have always claimed that although Carlos learned judo directly from Mitsuyo Maeda, it was Helio alone who was the one responsible for the modifications. Right here pre-UFC he gives credit to all five brothers.
3:04 "...at that time due to their small stature. My father, Helio, and my uncle, Carlos, and his other brothers start working on the basic, traditional Japanese system and developed Gracie Jiu Jitsu" - Rorion Gracie
Excelente vídeo! Demostra a essência do Gracie BJJ e sua eficiência na aplicação de alavancas que utilizam o próprio o corpo e/ou o corpo do oponente, o subjugando, estrangulando, enfim, dominando o adversário sem golpes traumáticos com a utilização de força moderada, o que ressalta as observações feitas pelo Mestre Hélio: "não precisa ser um brutamonte, nem ter 120 kg para dominar um oponente". Realmente fantástico!!!
interesting comments. Judo players are very envious and jealous. I do both BJJ and Judo. The main instructor at my judo academy was a little weird with me. He always said BJJ didn't work until i started tapping out all the students. He still was in denial. smh.
You're right, BJJ dominated all other arts! bruce would have been tapped within 30 seconds if it tool that long! Chuck Norris learned when he visited the gracies. Norris said he felt like he never took a lesson on the ground and he was already a black belt in judo! So what did Norris do, he's been training with gracie family for the past 30 years and is a 3rd degree black belt in BJJ..
+Pitt Crunch: sure, but they're very different arts now. It all comes down to the training philosophy and methods. In BJJ we spend a *lot* of time rolling, like an hour a day. That's made it a very very different art in practice than judo. Not that there's anything wrong with Judo! But even though they have the same roots they're completely different arts in practice now.
Hmm.. I'm not sure why he said that. Helio has always been the one given the credit for altering the moves due to small stature. Even Carlos said that. Could have just been bad wording on Rorion's part. Carlos was never weak, he was the athletic one. Now once Helio started the altering, Carlos definitely helped after seeing the effectiveness. So maybe he just meant they all worked together on altering them for a smaller weaker person. Either way, Helio has always been credited for the change.
Jigoro Kano combined elements from Tenjin Shinyo Ryu, Kito Ryu Jujutsu, and newaza/ground tech from Fusen Ryu Jujutsu to create Judo, and this was what Maeda taught the Gracies. Maeda started in Sumo and never studied Jujutsu himself. Helio focused on newaza to create BJJ, being(reportedly) sick and frail as a youth and not able to do many of the standing Judo techniques. He's listed as 65kg/139lbs. As for his height, his sons and grandsons looked much taller than him in pictures.
I'm pretty sure I've heard them credit the Brothers for GJJ in another old video as well. So this wasn't the first time. If you go to what people say now, of course they say Helio but do Gracie Barra guys also credit Helio?
Helio's side of the family claim Helio deserves all the credit. Carlos's side say he deserves all the credit. Well, both sides are guilty of ignoring Carlos and Helio's other brothers: Gastao Jr, Osvaldo, and Jorge. It's almost as if they never existed. That's why I consider all 5 brothers to be the founders of BJJ. Not just Helio or Carlos.
You are absolutely wrong. Many men still have hormone secretions until the age of 25 causing them to grow taller. Look it up. And I never said anything about strength, I am talking about size. I have never seen a physically large 140 pound man. And Helio was out weighed in all of his fights. That was typically the selling point at the events. I'm not sure where you get your info.
But Carlos was the one who leared from Maeda first, and he and the other brothers deserve credit as well, because everyone adapts and builds on what they learn from someone else. It wasn't all Helio, although he deserves credit as well.
44excalibur Carlos would have continued to teach the original Japanese techniques if it wasn't for Helio. Helios' physical strength wouldn't allow him to do the original Japanese techniques. So they modified them, hence Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
I always find it really really ugly that Rorion tries to put all the credit on Helio, especially later. He even tried to trademark "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" so noone but Helio's kids could use the name. Ridiculous. And some of it was outright lies: he used to claim that Helio was much smaller than Carlos, which is why Helio developed the art. Later we saw pics that showed that if anything Carlos was smaller. I give Rorion massive credit for spreading BJJ and changing martial arts forever via the UFC, but he sure can be an ass.
youve got to be joking,helio was significantly bigger and more muscular than carlos,just look at old pics of them standing together,carlos was the smallest brother.Helio didnt make bjj what it is,it gradually evolved via testing over 80 yrs and I guarantee you rorion does not give carlos any credit nowadays.Helios sons never fought vale tudo in the 70s outside 1 match v karate,it was carlson who was the big man from the 60s through early 70s,there were virtually no matches in the 70s at all.
lad,carlos died in 1994 and its over 80 yrs since he fought,nobody is going to have the true details and the gracies are notorious liars where helio is concerned.All footage ive seen of carlos in action show a very skinny man,fit but very thin,helio was similar but taller.IT MAKES NO SENSE HE HAD TO MODIFY TECH THAT CARLOS COULD MUSCLE THROUGH.ive trained gjj for 15 yrs now so im no hater,i just dont tolerate obvious lies.
If you have really trained GJJ for 15 years, you'd be a black belt and thus, you'd respect the technique that Helio added rather than the muscle of the Japanese JuJitsu. So honestly, it is hard to believe you...
Actually genius, most men hit their final growth spurts at 25 years of age. He began fighting in 1932 at 19 years of age. And he was never a big guy. He never weighed more than 140 pounds!! I don't know about you, but I have never met any big strong guys that weigh less than 140 pounds. Get your facts straight. And what certain tactic was added to Judo? You think that is all Helio did?? hahaha
you wouldnt grow 6 inches in a year even in puberty,it would be almost unheard of unless there was a growth disorder.Same goes for growing at 24,its pathological rather than unusual.Try picking up a medical book,as i said bone maturation isnt the same thing as growing taller and some bones dont mature until mid 20s,but theres no growth.
He was taller in later years. He was also sick and weak as a kid. Keep in mind, he taught his first class at 16 years of age. He was very weak and never considered to be a strong guy. He was always skinny. And Carlos has openly given credit to Helio for Gracie Jiu Jitsu's evolution. Helio and his kids fought plenty of challenge matches, and Rickson fought Vale Tudo often.
What a privilege, to be at a seminar so early with all those legends giving you one on one attention.
There are old Vale Tudo videos from the 70's where Helio was leading his sons to victory and was the head of the clan. You have to keep in mind that Carlos was always given credit as grand master since he was the one that taught them Jiu Jitsu first. Helio is the one that changed it. If it weren't for Helio, that change wouldn't have happened because Carlos, being an athletic guy, had no need to alter moves to make them work. Carlos started the foundation, Helio made it the system it is today.
A very young Pedro Valente at 2:19. Now in So. Florida and other states there is a HUGe Valente Brothers academy, which I am proudly part of! :-)
Amazing to see that footage of Helio too.
putz, esses caras nem poderiam imaginar que estavam aprendendo com os melhores! queria estar no lugar desses gringos, aprender com nimguém menos que Hélio Gracie!? isso não tem preço!
This seminar took place in 1990, at least according to the title. Royce got his black belt at 18 (so on or after December 12, 1984).
If you look up Mitsuyo Maeda's bio you'll see that he did not study Japanese Jujutsu at all. He studied Sumo and later Judo under founder Jigoro Kano, then traveled to Brazil and taught Judo under the name "Kano Jiu Jitsu" to make it more recognizable to westerners unfamiliar with Judo. Kano was a small man himself, and had already designed Judo to allow a smaller man to defeat a larger man using leverage. Carlos Gracie learned Judo from Maeda, and then Helio adapted Judo newaza to create BJJ.
I sent a letter to that PO Box last week and Ryron sent me a signed belt!
By the way, I just verified that Carlos weighed 65 kg (143 lbs) making him heavier than Helio, who fought at 135 lbs. Later they weighed about the same, but it was common knowledge that Carlos was the stronger and more athletic of the two.
Okay, well first off, Carlos taught the Japanese Jiu Jitsu (not Judo) that Maeda taught him to fellow Brazilians. He didn't change anything. The change began when Helio, who was very weak and smaller, changed techniques so he could use leverage over the stronger guys. These were the first changes to take place in what eventually became Gracie Jiu Jitsu. That has always been the story. And Carlos died in 1994. Helio was given the credit WAY before that. He was leading the pack in the 70's...
Great Stuff! Anything that shows some of the Grand Master that I haven't seen before is a gem!
just going by what Rorion and them were saying. When Carlos was still alive all brothers were given credit on changing the Judo they learned. Once Carlos died and Helio became the head, the story changed to Helio being the one that changed it.
"Please right to Gracie Jiu Jitsu, P.O. Box..." Holy shit, I forgot what life was like before the internet.
Yes, they do. I am good friends with a few of their black belts. They definitely give credit to Helio.
What’s really interesting about this video, is that Rorion gives credit to all five of the original Gracie brothers for the development of the art 2:36-3:40. After the success of the first UFC event, Rorion and his side of the family have always claimed that although Carlos learned judo directly from Mitsuyo Maeda, it was Helio alone who was the one responsible for the modifications. Right here pre-UFC he gives credit to all five brothers.
3:04 "...at that time due to their small stature. My father, Helio, and my uncle, Carlos, and his other brothers start working on the basic, traditional Japanese system and developed Gracie Jiu Jitsu" - Rorion Gracie
Excelente vídeo! Demostra a essência do Gracie BJJ e sua eficiência na aplicação de alavancas que utilizam o próprio o corpo e/ou o corpo do oponente, o subjugando, estrangulando, enfim, dominando o adversário sem golpes traumáticos com a utilização de força moderada, o que ressalta as observações feitas pelo Mestre Hélio: "não precisa ser um brutamonte, nem ter 120 kg para dominar um oponente". Realmente fantástico!!!
again I'm just going by what Rorion and his brothers say in these early videos. They first credit the brothers and then later credit Helio.
interesting comments. Judo players are very envious and jealous. I do both BJJ and Judo. The main instructor at my judo academy was a little weird with me. He always said BJJ didn't work until i started tapping out all the students. He still was in denial. smh.
***** it's starting to unite more. Lots of Judokas are joining bjj academies and visa versa. like me. i love judo and bjj.
***** exactly. My friendships from Judo and BJJ are amazing. Great people great friends. hate the BJJ vs Judo garbage.
An interesting point is that Judo came from Jujitsu.
If you research the history of the art
You're right, BJJ dominated all other arts! bruce would have been tapped within 30 seconds if it tool that long! Chuck Norris learned when he visited the gracies. Norris said he felt like he never took a lesson on the ground and he was already a black belt in judo! So what did Norris do, he's been training with gracie family for the past 30 years and is a 3rd degree black belt in BJJ..
+Pitt Crunch: sure, but they're very different arts now. It all comes down to the training philosophy and methods. In BJJ we spend a *lot* of time rolling, like an hour a day. That's made it a very very different art in practice than judo. Not that there's anything wrong with Judo! But even though they have the same roots they're completely different arts in practice now.
great video!!
Que tuanis los inicios... so cool the beginnings...
Hmm.. I'm not sure why he said that. Helio has always been the one given the credit for altering the moves due to small stature. Even Carlos said that. Could have just been bad wording on Rorion's part. Carlos was never weak, he was the athletic one. Now once Helio started the altering, Carlos definitely helped after seeing the effectiveness. So maybe he just meant they all worked together on altering them for a smaller weaker person. Either way, Helio has always been credited for the change.
Jigoro Kano combined elements from Tenjin Shinyo Ryu, Kito Ryu Jujutsu, and newaza/ground tech from Fusen Ryu Jujutsu to create Judo, and this was what Maeda taught the Gracies. Maeda started in Sumo and never studied Jujutsu himself. Helio focused on newaza to create BJJ, being(reportedly) sick and frail as a youth and not able to do many of the standing Judo techniques. He's listed as 65kg/139lbs. As for his height, his sons and grandsons looked much taller than him in pictures.
I'm pretty sure I've heard them credit the Brothers for GJJ in another old video as well. So this wasn't the first time. If you go to what people say now, of course they say Helio but do Gracie Barra guys also credit Helio?
Oh, my mistake, he was 18 years old!
Wow!! It ends with a snail mail info request by Rorion..if that doesn't date this I don't know what does! Cool stuff!
At least the guys I know, which are very well known black belts.
Carlos grace bjj Brazilian bjj between Japanese jujutsu
"they came up with Gracie JJ" and now its "Helio came up with Gracie JJ" ...politic, smh
Helio's side of the family claim Helio deserves all the credit. Carlos's side say he deserves all the credit. Well, both sides are guilty of ignoring Carlos and Helio's other brothers: Gastao Jr, Osvaldo, and Jorge. It's almost as if they never existed. That's why I consider all 5 brothers to be the founders of BJJ. Not just Helio or Carlos.
Helio is the one who changed it.
Royce is brown belt here?awesome,thanks!
You are absolutely wrong. Many men still have hormone secretions until the age of 25 causing them to grow taller. Look it up. And I never said anything about strength, I am talking about size. I have never seen a physically large 140 pound man. And Helio was out weighed in all of his fights. That was typically the selling point at the events. I'm not sure where you get your info.
But Carlos was the one who leared from Maeda first, and he and the other brothers deserve credit as well, because everyone adapts and builds on what they learn from someone else. It wasn't all Helio, although he deserves credit as well.
44excalibur Carlos would have continued to teach the original Japanese techniques if it wasn't for Helio. Helios' physical strength wouldn't allow him to do the original Japanese techniques. So they modified them, hence Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
I always find it really really ugly that Rorion tries to put all the credit on Helio, especially later. He even tried to trademark "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" so noone but Helio's kids could use the name. Ridiculous. And some of it was outright lies: he used to claim that Helio was much smaller than Carlos, which is why Helio developed the art. Later we saw pics that showed that if anything Carlos was smaller. I give Rorion massive credit for spreading BJJ and changing martial arts forever via the UFC, but he sure can be an ass.
youve got to be joking,helio was significantly bigger and more muscular than carlos,just look at old pics of them standing together,carlos was the smallest brother.Helio didnt make bjj what it is,it gradually evolved via testing over 80 yrs and I guarantee you rorion does not give carlos any credit nowadays.Helios sons never fought vale tudo in the 70s outside 1 match v karate,it was carlson who was the big man from the 60s through early 70s,there were virtually no matches in the 70s at all.
@ninjawarrior2k almost all of them if u do it right
いいね！
I know right , its $500 an hour now lol
lol guy kinda looked like nick diaz at 2:20..
lad,carlos died in 1994 and its over 80 yrs since he fought,nobody is going to have the true details and the gracies are notorious liars where helio is concerned.All footage ive seen of carlos in action show a very skinny man,fit but very thin,helio was similar but taller.IT MAKES NO SENSE HE HAD TO MODIFY TECH THAT CARLOS COULD MUSCLE THROUGH.ive trained gjj for 15 yrs now so im no hater,i just dont tolerate obvious lies.
Gracies did not created BJJ... but they created excelents strategies against others martial arts that really works
If you have really trained GJJ for 15 years, you'd be a black belt and thus, you'd respect the technique that Helio added rather than the muscle of the Japanese JuJitsu. So honestly, it is hard to believe you...
Actually genius, most men hit their final growth spurts at 25 years of age. He began fighting in 1932 at 19 years of age. And he was never a big guy. He never weighed more than 140 pounds!! I don't know about you, but I have never met any big strong guys that weigh less than 140 pounds. Get your facts straight. And what certain tactic was added to Judo? You think that is all Helio did?? hahaha
5:07 'ISSO' show them. Mix portuguese with english. lol
also 1+1=3
I have a lot of respect for Rorion, but doesn't he look INDIAN in this video?
wrestling + judo = bjj
you wouldnt grow 6 inches in a year even in puberty,it would be almost unheard of unless there was a growth disorder.Same goes for growing at 24,its pathological rather than unusual.Try picking up a medical book,as i said bone maturation isnt the same thing as growing taller and some bones dont mature until mid 20s,but theres no growth.
Really? Maybe you should brush up then, because I just read 4 different studies on Google that say otherwise. LOL
Not really.
Me+Your mom = you
or black lol
Gracie bs
You're jealous 😂😂
Yeah, no. Not at all.