Andor really nailed it when he said “They can't imagine that anyone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food.” They just could not have imagined that a couple of squads of snubfighters could take out the unstoppable Death Star. Tarkin staked so much on this that he stayed, despite the threat, and was killed along with the Death Star.
"Dangerous to your fleets, commander...NOT to this battlestation." "Any attack made by the Rebels against this station will be a useless gesture, it is now the ultimate power in the universe." "Do not be too proud of this technological terror you created."
Yeah it was a more powerful weapon than star destroyers, so powerful it didn’t REALLY need an escort. It only got destroyed because some dude with inside knowledge AND magical aiming/driving powers exploited a backdoor, otherwise it would have solo’d the rebel alliance. Empire didn’t know about the weak point either
There was at least one other time in Canon where the Rebels tried to win the war quickly: they tried to assassinate the Emperor on Coruscant. Sidious fought them all himself. Only one survived, and he was left disfigured by Force lightning and presumed K.I.A. by the Alliance. He'd later go rogue, break into the Alliance's secret Sunspot Prison, and execute most if not all Imperials being held there for trial after the war. Also, a lot of Imperials in both continuities actually blamed Tarkin's arrogance for the destruction of the Death Star, which is technically true, but a lot of other people were right there with him, believing the station was invulnerable and stroking his ego in the process. Ego, that's what killed the planet killer.
General Dodonna: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct, large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense. Gold Leader: Pardon me for asking, sir, but what good are snub fighters going to be against that? General Dodonna: Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense.
this is sort of like them talking about an island covered in guns and going "they have no runway so there is no way to stop our small bombers from getting in close" and then only 1 attack craft hitting its target. Also, Luke only really hit due to plot armour, while I'm not gonna hold this against the story, if you are in the position of criticising the deathstar the deathstar was killed by the mix of a deus ex machina (yeah the Millennium Falcon wouldn't be able to get that close) and space magic.
I am probably mistaken, but wasn't there something that said the Death Star actually had a really good hyperdrive and simply outran its defense fleet, assuming it would be immune to any attack the Rebels could muster.
It has star destroyers docked on it. Tarkin simply didn’t deploy ANYTHING because of sheer hubris and the belief that the alliance had nothing that could actually hurt the Death Star.
You guys are thinking too hard. George Lucas was on a strict budget making this movie, and by the time it came out, he was already running on hopes and fumes.
@@wisegamer706 incorrect. Well partially. It seems likely that Motti’s star destroyer Steel Talon was docked with the Death Star during the battle of yavin, seeing as it was his ship, and it’s chief gunner Tenn Graneet was also aboard the Death Star when it was destroyed. Logically if the ships commander and chief gunner were aboard a space station capable of docking with their ship, it would seem reasonable that their ship was docked there if they were both aboard.
A Star Destroyer didn't carry 37,000 troopers. It carried 37k crew - everything from officers, engineers, pilots, ground crew, techs, troopers and storm troopers. Not really the same thing.
The question about Star Destroyers not going into battle with a full compliment fits in well with Solo for me. Han comments that there is no way that they would waste a fighter on the Falcon, speaking from experience. It seems like he would have been used to serving on lightly armed Star Destroyers, maybe as the Empire is building Star Destroyers faster than it can outfit them with full compliments of fighters and troops.
What would've won the Battle of Yavin for the Empire is if they had deployed a fighter screen as soon as they came out of hyperspace. The rebels were only able to field a couple of squadrons of X and Y-wings. The Death Star's onboard fighter compliment would've been more than enough to overwhelm Red and Gold Squadrons before they even got near the Death Star, especially if Vader decided to join the fight.
@@zacharysilver911There's more continuity than the film in any canon you're referencing. He literally said it's canon to Legends and not included in the film, obviously.
Well, if you just go with what we can actually see on-screen, the handful of TIEs that were launched DID overwhelm Red and Gold squadrons. 8 out of 9 fighters that made the attack run against the exhaust port were shot down (and if Han hadn't decided to come back, it would have been 9 out of 9), and we only see three fighters (out of the 30 that went in) returning to base after the Death Star was destroyed.
In the novel, 4 Squadrons conducted the attack; Red and Gold for the attack run, the other two were supposed to provide cover and a distraction. It's also stated when the Officer briefs Vader; 'We count 30 Rebel ships, My Lord'. That's about 4 under strength Squadrons, after the losses taken at Scarif. Tarkins biggest mistake was not launching his TIE fighter's sooner; the DS carried 1000 fighter's; but, that wasn't part of the plot.
@@gregdomenico1891That's exactly my point. If the Imperials had had a fighter screen in position at the outset of the fight - instead of waiting to launch them until the battle was already underway - the rebels wouldn't have stood a chance.
The only vulnerability the second Death Star possessed, was one that any reasonable person would have deemed literally impossible to exploit. Perhaps Vader and Palpatine should have known better, but the latter especially was essentially a dark side demon already drunk off of a perceived victory; and Vader was just his attack dog (I'm being cheeky). Empires in real life have suffered crippling defeats in war for worse reasons.
I would like to posit an answer for the "What was the Rebellion's Plan for the Winning the War". In the old West End Games Star Wars game, the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook: there is a section of a lore text that is written from Mon Mothma to Ackbar upon being assigned Commander of the Entire Alliance Fleet. This is written around some time after the Battle of Hoth. "Currently, we have no intentions of sending your Fleet into formal battle against the Imperial Navy. All of our energies are engaged upon building up our forces and formenting rebellion on Imperial Worlds. The only Alliance Forces which are actively conducting offensive operations are the independent starfighter wings, guerrilla forces, and covert ground assault unit. These are, of necessity, very limited in scope." "However, we are willing to fight if the prize is large enough. The Emperor is all that holds the Empire together. Destroy him, and all will crumble. Palpatine cannot hide in the Imperial City forever. All of our activities are designed to bring him out in the open, to ccreate situations which demand his personal attention, situations with which even Lord Vader cannot deal." "We will rip at his flanks, frighten his Moffs and Grand Moffs, and encourge his most important planets to rebel. If we can, we will Vader. Eventually, when we become noxious enough, the Emperor will take the field himself. When he does, we will risk everything - include your command - to destroy him. You must be ready for that day." "If we are successful, the war is won. If not, the conflict will drag on for decades." I would say from a legends standpoint, this happened. When the Emperor died, all the factions that were subservent to him turned on one another and the Empire fractured into pieces and the Rebellion turned New Republic was able to fight the pieces of the Empire into submission.
The Star Destroyers during the Lucrehulk attack were there to defend to Death Star during it's construction. From Wookiepedia, the Imperial class Star Destroyer did indeed have a crew 37,000 crew, PLUS around 9k stormtroopers. Which is why Booster Terrik had such a time keeping the Errant Venture going when not supplemented by the New Republic. In "I, Jedi" the Errant Venture was down three of its turbolaser emplacements.
Because it was coated in 10,000 turbolaser batteries, 2,600 ion cannons, and 768 tractor beam projectors-- more than 166 star destroyers. It also had 7,293 tie fighters, which is about seven Lucrehulks.
And a Superlaser capable of cracking a planet every day or a Capital Ship/Carrier every minute or so. However, none of its defenses mattered since the response to a bunch of snub fighters should've been "Send out all the TIEs" not "handful of TIEs" and Tarkin chose the latter the hubristic idiot he was.
There were actually ships around the Death Star. That is where "The Tarkin's Will" comes from. But the real answer is: "Your overconfidence is your weakness." - Luke Skywalker "Your faith in your friends is yours." - Darth Sidious And doesn't that just say everything about the OT?
I always struggle about when did Luke had a problem because of too much faith in his friends. In fact he has a problem in ESB because he thinks they can't solve the problem themselves and will die.
The Y-Wing which survived the battle was one of three assigned to fly high cover and take on any escort ships, right? They were the only three Y-Wings left with functioning ion cannons.
To answer Question 2, typically insurgencies (in the real world) are at a disadvantage when they hold onto territory. Successful revolutions (Mao, American, Maccabees, Viet Cong etc.) have relied on guerrilla warfare which has allowed for the ‘rebels’ to be harder to pinpoint as well as more psychologically terrifying. Mao has a whole book on this stuff and the Star Wars rebellion follows the guidelines pretty well.
The Star Destroyer Design is also rooted in real life philosophy: in peace time (which would be the state before the Galactic civil war becomes hot) you produce few ships that can fulfill a lot of roles at the same time. In war you produce more ships that are more specialized, like the US produced 100 light aircraft carriers per year in WW2.
They didn't even learn from this plunder! In episode 6, they ambushed the Rebel Fleet with a not yet constructed Death Star 2 that had a ship sized tunnel, leading to its weak spot😂The arrogance and stupidity of the Empire was truly amazing.
It was a trap that literally had them scrambled and at the Empire's mercy until 2 random acts of god got them out of their jam. The Empire did literally everything right at the Battle of Endor.
@@Necromancer4267true it seemed either the Rebels plans had been anticipated OR judging from how the movie we saw played out the Empire under Palpatine himselfs direction manipulated the Rebels into massing for a deliberate sorta attack like they did. An like mentioned an shown many times an act of God, the Force, Plot an handful of lucky breaks for the characters they managed to turn the tables and beat yet another super weapon
@@Necromancer4267if they'd literally done everyting right, then they wouldn't have been defeated at Endor. Just wait a few weeks until the Death Star is completed.
#AskEck If allowed to intervene as Valorum wanted, what would a confrontation between Republic Judicial Forces and the Trade Federation have looked like during the Naboo Crisis? Who would've come out on top? What would the aftermath be? You touch on it here, but could you expand your thoughts? The Judicials tend to get disparaged, but they *were* the single largest armed force in the Galaxy and the TF seemed to fear direct Republic intervention.
In practically every Star Wars space simulator in replaying the Battle of Endor, there are Star Destroyers (or at least just 1 in the path of the Rebel starfighter squadrons). I figured they didn't want to interfere with the risk of losing them as they lined up to take out the Rebel base, but my understanding was that there was at least 1 or maybe a few in a very wide, loose perimeter.
The fact that Trade Federation could create army of droids and have weapons on ships was already a signal to the Republic that it was too late. Blockade over Naboo was just an end result of that, as Eckharts said. The result was not really important since corporations were given too much power, Republic was too corrupted and worlds were undefended + Outer Rim was constantly being ignored...Naboo was just the igniter for conflict
I've been working on a fan fiction book about Admiral Ackbar, and I think there could be some really engaging story telling about what the efforts of the rebellion were really all about prior to the Battle of Yavin. We had a galaxy that was ripped apart by the Clone Wars, and then the empire swept in and focused all their resources on a military occupation of the entire galaxy. The rebels would have been in a position to make that process of garrisoning the galaxy as expensive as possible by attacking supply lines and harassing the empire in ways that prevented them from focusing their military resources on worlds that might have planetary defenses like shielding, ion cannons, or even defensive fleets. But on top of that, there could have been significant humanitarian work that the Rebellion could have undertaken to win hearts and minds in the parts of the galaxy that the empire wasn't supporting, but perhaps the Alliance could.
Storywise, because they thought it was invincible. And not without reason. Only a few people knew about the Death Star's one weakness, the exhaust port, and the Empire had no way of knowing that info had been obtained by the Rebellion. And even knowing about that port, it was an extreme longshot for the Rebels to exploit it. Which Luke did, against all odds. (With the help of the Force.)
From what i heard the plan of the Rebellion was to kill Palpatine and Vader and then deal with what happens next. As long as Palpatine was squatting on Coruscant they couldn't do anything and Palpatine knew it.
I figure the Star Destroyers assigned to protect the Death Star were the same ones that were sent out to Dantooine to strike at the Rebel base there, and then began an extensive search of the outlying systems once they found the outpost to be long-abandoned. The fleet was scattered and needed time to marshal together before rejoining the Death Star at Yavin.
In the game "Rebel Assault", there IS a Star Destroyer between you and the Death Star and you must fight your way through waves of TIE Fighters on your way to your target.
The clone wars couldn't have been started earlier, the clones and ships weren't ready. The first batch of clones finished training a few months before Geonosis, and the ships and equipment had only started arriving from Rothana to complete their training and transportation.
True, in fact it would have ruined Palpatine's plans if the separatist movement was started sooner and the GAR was formed without the clones, because it meant there wouldn't be clones everywhere to kill the Jedi
@@battlesheep2552 Without the clones, the separatist movement would have held off the republic easily with their massive robot fleets that they already had and could easily have continued expanding. The republic would have had no choice but to allow worlds to leave the republic and Palpatine would have been viewed as a ineffective any attempt to increase his power or give him "emergency powers" would have been voted down as he was the weak chancellor seen as grasping for anything to not look weak. He would have had to have taken then clone army and their fleets to the unknown regions and set them up as a empire of the hand type thing.
There are two early PC games showing some escorts for the Death Star at Yavin. "X-Wing" Tour 3 Mission 12 had a small fleet of Corvettes and a Frigate escorting the DS. For some reason, destroying a deployed comsat disrupted coordination of that defense. "Rebel Assault" Chapter 12 had one Star Destroyer deploying TIEs to intercept Blue Squadron on its way to the Death Star. These X-Wing broke through the TIEs and met with the other squadrons. Fun fact: The novelisation of ANH had four Rebel squadrons attacking the Death Star, with two of them doing diversionary strikes while squadrons Blue (Red in the movie) and Red (Gold in the movie) attacking the exhaust port.
I would guess that the biggest threat the death star would face, not the exhaust port, would be a ground assault. Specifically a ground assault, with the intent of delivering large explosives to the inside. As we can see from a new, Hope the death star does not have a shied for close attacks.
#AskEck during the battle of endor, was endor shielded and were mon calamari cruisers (the main big ships the rebel alliance used) capable of orbital bombardment. If endor wasn't and the mc cruisers could, why didn't the rebels instead choose to bombard the moon in an attempt to blow up the shield generator as opposed to sending a team down there, which i thought would be far riskier. Even sending in a squad of fighters/bombers to go down and blow it up seems like a better idea. I couldn't find answers to the first 2 but it seemed like if the rebels attacked both the death star and endor at the same time, unless the empire deployed fighters fast enough (which they never do) to get to endor, the rebels would have had little to no resistence.
I think Endor was shielded with the Death Star. When the strike team arrives in a shuttle, they need to transmit codes to the Executor so that they will let them through the shield blocking Endor.
Member when Han and Co asked the Imps to disable the shield using a older code that checks out. Hence the reason Vader sensed luke . Its because the shield came up from the planet and the entire area was included in that swath. Hence why Han says If they dont go for this we will have to get out of here really quick. Also Leia says lets see if the code is worth the price we paid.
The Death Star had to be public knowledge or at least known to down to planetary governors because the Imperial Senate was disbanded before Alderaan was destroyed. The officers with Tarkin were worried about removing the bureaucracy even knowing about the Death Star. There would be no logic in doing that while depending on a single weapon if no one knows you have such a weapon.
What’s interesting is that (even before the post-hoc Rogue One) the Empire was reasonably worried about the Rebels’ possession of the Death Star plans. They probably assumed that any would-be weakness would either be inconsequential, or would be so hard to find the Empire would reach the Rebels before they had a chance to exploit it.
I find the concept, that the reason for the lack of the Imperial navy not having more of a presence at Yavin is the part where Tarkin wanted complete credit for the destruction of the rebellion. Because he was at odds with other parts of the military structure - as I see Moff (Grand or otherwise) being a political appointment more than a military one. During World War II - the biggest opposition and enemy of the Imperial Japanese Navy was the Imperial Japanese Army - they kept fighting each other for resources and a voice with the high command - there was no cooperation between the two and it was one of (many) reasons they lost WWII.
In the game X-wing, the Death Star DID have a small escorting fleet, but none of those ships were anything larger than a Nebulon B Escort frigate, also backed up by a few Corellian Corvettes. A mission before attacking the Death Star involved destroying a single communication satellite among all of them to deprive the Empire of the ability to call for help. Also, ONE ISD was said to be there, but it was destroyed by X2's Grey Squadron.
It was hubris, just that . Absolute confidence in the battle station and its awesomely terrifying power. At this time barely anyone could challenge the empire openly. The rebels did have one victory that led to the stealing of the Death Stars plans but even that did little to worry the enormous might of the empire. Tarkin ego was his own enemy, had he taken the time needed to assemble a force to protect the station while also eliminating the rebels . That assault on Yavin would have been a victory instead of a defeat that would embolden future rebel forces to come.
There are so many pieces missing from that first Death Star battle, it's maddening. The station alone should have had hundreds if not thousands of TIE fighters ready to go. For the Rebels to attack with only thirty ships and to have the Imperials *outnumbered* in the dogfights... It's insane. Especially once the Imperial analysts realized what the Rebels were trying to do. There's so much that has to be chalked up to pure Imperial stupidity. That first movie gets so many nostalgia points. Take off the rose-colored lenses, and there's barely any substance.
Palpatine's hubris was the biggest undoing of the Death Star. Even Grand Moff Tarkin's own hubris was the downfall of the Death Star. The entire idea of the Death Star was a dumb idea and a collosal waste of Imperial lives and resources. Had a Grand Admiral been in charge of the Death Star, he'd likely play a different playbook. He'd be cautious and even want a fleet to accompany it. Sure, it'd make it a bigger target but it also means its harder for the Rebels to at least attack it and be more mobile.
A fleet as it was coming online just painted a target on its back... It was fully capable of fielding more fighters than any SD and capital ships would just be FF hazards.
@@michaelandreipalon359 True. But even he'd make it harder for the Rebels to beat the Death Star, especially if he understands the weaknesses of the Death Star and has a better understanding of Rebel tactics. But Zaarin is no Thrawn and he's more of an engineer than a front line commander. I would say Teshik would have been a better field commander and I think his skills would be better in taking command of the Death Star despite the fact he may likely hate commanding the battle station. At least he's no idiot like Tarkin and he's more of a cautious commander.
@@michaellane5381 True. But it also deters Rebel attack fleets from engaging it. Also, quantity is it's own quality. By literally spamming local airspace and using overwhelming numbers to crush Rebel fighters, that negates the technical superiority of the X-Wings and aging Y-Wings. Plus, if you have small cruisers designed to counter Rebel fighters and bombers, that adds an extra layer of defense. Sure, the Death Star is massive and may have more fighters than an ISD, but if you have a dedicated fleet that augments whatever defenses the Death Star has, what you have is an impenetrable wall for the Rebels to fight through. That's why I think a very reluctant but cautious Grand Admiral would have thought differently than Tarkin. A smart Grand Admiral would know the battle station is literally a huge target and he would want to ensure its survival by making it a very hard target to take down.
@@jaymikevillanueva1212 again I think it was a choice made in the stations infancy, had they succeeded in testing it at Yavin I think they would have given it escorts for following missions, they thought it had no weaknesses.
#AskEck Could you compare the relationship between the Jedi Order and the Clone Troopers in Canon and Legends? What in-lore reasons are there for the difference?
Another thing to note about the Death Star falling to snub fighters is the truth that most wars are fought with hindsight. That is, technology, warfare and military doctrine are usually dated by default, the products of past experience rather than of forethought. The last war (the Clone Wars) saw large vessels leading the fight: destroyers, dreadnoughts, cruisers, etc. Fighters played a crucial role, yes, but they weren’t seen as the primary threat. The Empire needed (or thought they needed) weapons to counter fleets and battlecruisers. A Star Destroyer that could rend through smaller ships was certainly intimidating enough to prevent another Separatist uprising. And had the Empire actually fought against the Confederacy or something similar, they likely would have dominated. But the Empire wasn’t quite prepared to take on squads of snub fighters. Instead of fighting cruisers armed with cannons, they were up against gnats armed with torpedoes. The Empire was superior by every metric meaningful to warfare. But their defeat came because they weren’t initially ready, and didn’t adapt quickly enough, for the Rebels.
Having a Star Destroyer around at the battle of Yavin would have made a big difference because the battle plan would have been more flexible. Even with the Death Star gone, a Star Destroyer would have been able to prevent the rebels from moving their base to Hoth.
One thing the alliance did not have was time. More fighters, couple destroyers would have likely added a few vital minutes that the death star needed to fire
Actually, I think the survival of the Trade Federation occupation of Naboo has some pretty _big_ effects. For one, Anakin is almost certainly either captured or killed, and possibly the same for Obi-wan, and given how much of an effect those two had on the war...
0:53 "Still pretty much a secret installation?" Imagine if news of its construction was leaked ALL over the Galaxy, and I mean ALL OVER. Especially to the Imperial Senate before Palpatine could dissolve it. The Empire would've fractured waaay earlier, Palpatine (and his powers) notwithstanding.
They really needed a decent number of Thrawn's Tie Defender's which would have made short work of the X-wings. Although Thrawn greatly opposed the Death Star so although he would have been greatly disappointed by the loss of Imperial lives onboard he would not have been sad to see the Death Star (And probaby Tarkin) gone.
#Askeck question, can you please remake your video on the hyperspace barrier around the galaxy? With Ashoka tackling the problem of the barrier, I’m interested in your ideas about extragalactic travel now. Thanks and congratulations on 1 million (not trying to flex but I’ve been subscribed since 100k)! Edit: Thank you for answering my question!
I thought the Death Star, had a defensive fleet that was continuously docked with it and could deploy at a moment notice. I mean, we literally see enormous hangers where a fleet of star destroyers could literally dock as we approach the death star in the millennium falcon in the movie. There is also another hemisphere of the death star that we never really see so they might have been there…a possibility that’s just occurred to me, It’s possible they were just too far away to actually do any good especially if they were in that hemisphere that we don’t normally see. But you’re right, Tarkin’s arrogance is what ultimately caused the death stars fall. Along with the lack of early deployment of defensive fighters. And the fact that the rebel alliance found the one critical weakness and deployed what fighters they could to exploit that. And you can see in their second attempt with the death star 2 that they at least try to protect the Death Star in Geostationary orbit with the enormous fleet of star destroyers and an enormous complement of star fighters. But again we see arrogance coming to play with the Emperor himself being so arrogant as to believe that he would be impervious to attack on his death star also his arrogance believing Luke would actually turn to the Darkside or kill his father.
Well, one thing is for sure, the Emperor made sure that he wanted to protect the second Death Star in "Return of the Jedi", but setting up a trap for the Rebels by using Star Destroyers as a blockade to prevent the Rebel fleet from retreating.
I have 2 questions: 1.) What if the Droid Army turned on the Trade Federation during Naboo/turned on the Separatists during Geonosis and joined the Republic? 2.) What if Palpatine kept the Droid Military(but still killed the Separatist leaders except Grievous) and the clone military while still creating the new Imperial military?
The Death Star had a LOT of protection. The only mistake they made was not recognizing their Flak turbolaser towers wouldn't be able to dissuade or shoot down enough fighters.
Thinking about it, there's no real good for reason for an ISD to ever not go out on patrol with as close to its full complement of fighters, support craft, troops, and ground vehicles. By being fully loaded and ISD is ready for any situation at any time and it doesn't need to go anywhere to pick up additional assets because all it had a was just its main crew and little else. It also means that you don't have to diver an ISD from elsewhere to handle a situation because the one nearest to the trouble spot doesn't have enough TIEs or Stormtroopers aboard it. It's like the US Navy and its carriers and amphibious assault ships, we don't send either one of them out without its full complement of planes and, in the case of the amphibs, Marines. In the case our amphibs formed into what are called MEUs (Marine Expeditionary Units) means that we, the US, have a Marine force that can get to any coastal area within 48 hours, armed and ready to go. They're also on hand in case of a natural disaster with the ship(s) being able to provide a certain amount of emergency power and act as a hospital.
If a couple of teenagers showed up on your front lawn and started throwing fire crackers your first thought isn’t going to be “ I should get out of here or call the cops before they send this house into the stratosphere”
#AskEck What would the outcome of the Battle of Endor be like if the Rebel Alliance (in Canon) used the Viscount from the New Republic (in Legends) in their fleet to attack the Second Death Star?
Hey man, I love your videos. I have a question: I just watched your video on the center of the Galaxy from a few months ago. At around 6:35, there is a picture of a fleet around Byss. In the center, there is a large ship, which looks really strange: It has a Kuat Triangle tip, gets sort of circular in the middle, and the rear is somewhat... blocky? Do you know what type of ship that is?
Figured it out: It's the Modular Taskforce Cruiser, from Dark Empire and the Dark Empire sourcebook. I don't know if you have mentioned it in a video before, but I think it definitly deserves a mention just for looking so goofy.
people also forget that Tarkin refused to launch the Death Star's fighters. The only fighters that were launched was Vader's Death Squadron and perhaps the TIE patrols already outside the station. The fact that the Rebels were almost defeated shows that had Tarkin launched additional fighters, the station may have survived, and additional ships wouldn't have been necessary. Furthermore, the Death Star's Star Destroyer escort had left along with General Tagge to search the Rebel base on Dantooine, that is why there weren't any additional ships.
During the Clone War Anakin and Obi Wan stumbled and destroyed CIS secret weapon programs on a weekly basis. Surely, Palpatine and Vader would be more than aware of this sticking point and set up extra security for their secret projects.
The Death Star had over 7000 TIE fighters at it's disposal, but they only launched a small albeit elite squadron that was under Darth Vader's direct command.
#askeck exactly where WAS the exhaust port on the death star and the trench that led to it? was it at a pole? Was it a the antipode of the superlaser crater?
Something that is often over looked in the Death Star attack - between ground fire and the handful of fighters that were sent (a dozen, maybe less, I forget the exact total), 3/30 fighters, 2 X-wings (at least one badly damaged enough to be told to break off) and 1 Y-Wing, that's a 90% of Rebel forces destroyed when they weren't really even trying to defend the damn thing. Had the threat been taken more seriously and they launched more fighters sooner, it's over. Arrogant as the thinking was - it wasn't unwarranted, you'd likely need a fleet closer to what was used against the second Death Star in terms of fighters, if not more. Which - the second DS battle exhibits also why having a fleet could also be a con, as they used their own fleet to shield from the DS attacks.
i think got a good #askeck question, although this is a multiversal starship vs than a lore question which of these 2 ships would win if pitted against each other? SDF-1 Macross from original Macross/Robotech anime series, or a standard ISD 2 imperial star destroyer. the Macross has its fighter and mechs and the ISD has its full fighter compliment
To put it simply, the Death Star is a moon-sized space station with a planet destroying laser. The Empire was more than confident in its destructive power that they didn't consider any fleet of small fighters a threat to it (and let's be real, they wouldn't in normal cases). Tarkin himself heard that the small fighter squad that had the job of attacking the port hole thing may actually be a threat and he was (rightfully) arrogant enough to consider them not a threat even saying that the officer who told him this "overestimate their chances". He paid for this arrogance with his life.
#AskEck How effective would the Dark trooper phase 3 and 2 (EU) be against the rebellion if they were mass produced and replaced the standerd stormtrooper?
I’ve always wondered why didn’t they use their tractor beam(s) again. They captured the Falcon pretty easily. They could have captured fighters, and locked them in place until a TIE came along and destroyed it.
I did the math the Death Star did not have enough TIE fighters. The Death Star was huge and the TIE fighters were playing a zone defense, The rebels just overwhelmed the Defence in one specific area deemed unimportant
#AskEck do you support this theory. The Death Star wasnt build for destroying planets. It was build to defend the galaxy from the Yhou Zovong. Palpetine and the sith knew they were comming and the reason that the Sith wanted power was bc the was to defend the galaxy against the Yhou Zovong.
#AskEck Is there any information regarding what happens after space/land battles? What I'm referring to is whether there are certain body recovery/identification efforts made post battle? I know there are scrappers and such in the Star Wars universe, but it seems battlefields are kinda left to rot, such as Jakku and the Death Star debris field in Empire at War. I assume since the Rebellion is ongoing, they probably don't have the resources to "waste" on such things, but I am curious about it.
There was not a large time gap between the unveiling of the death Star and it's destruction. It was maybe days. Time was of the essence when the death star tracked the rebels to yavin so theh didnt have time to gather a fleet. Rogue One helped explain what could be considered a major plot hole in the original movie. The rebels found a major weakness extremely quickly which was only possible because it was purposeful. Tarkin would not have known that.
I could’ve sworn in Legends, the Death Star did have some ships as escorts at Yavin and the Rebel fleet engaged them to expose the Death Star to the fighter attack that ultimately took it out #AskEck What do we know of the development of the Venator? Was it ready at the outset of the Clone Wars or did it enter service sometime after it began? And what did the Republic Navy have before the Venator (and by extension, the Victory) came into service that could stand up to Seperatist capital ships? Lore ship Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III Gargantua/Aratech 520 Battle Platform vs. A6 Juggernaut
Perhaps they should have sprung for some more point-defense laser cannons in addition to the beds of turbo lasers. Even if the hull is resistant to being hit, it still damages the internal structure somewhat.
It's my understanding that the galactic community was pretty conflicted on the alliance vs the empire before the destruction of Alderaan. A lot of star systems were not being opressed and saw the order and stability that the empire brought to their systems. Once the Death Star was revealed and Alderaan destroyed, it rallied even legitimate governments to support the alliance, even if they did so surreptitiously at first. This drove the alliance away from simply fighting to survive and live another day to actually having some military capability and a chance for success. So before yavin the plan was to resist simply for the sake of resistance... to fight or protest evil. After that the plan involved maybe actually winning some battles and getting independence back to some systems, or even win the war.
Andor really nailed it when he said “They can't imagine that anyone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food.” They just could not have imagined that a couple of squads of snubfighters could take out the unstoppable Death Star. Tarkin staked so much on this that he stayed, despite the threat, and was killed along with the Death Star.
Andor is so fucking good I can't believe it's from Disney era Star Wars
Came here to say this. Andor is perfect!
In Tarkin's defense dying on the Death Star was probably safer than suffering whatever punishment Palps had for failing
Best Star Wars imo
A base like that would’ve had hordes of fighters protecting it! Luke wouldn’t have gotten with 1 parsec of the base.
Nobody expected the Death Star's waterproof compartments to fail when it hit that iceberg.
The Royal Navy didn't expect HMS Hood's Magazine to detonate after one shell, either.
"Dangerous to your fleets, commander...NOT to this battlestation."
"Any attack made by the Rebels against this station will be a useless gesture, it is now the ultimate power in the universe."
"Do not be too proud of this technological terror you created."
Yeah it was a more powerful weapon than star destroyers, so powerful it didn’t REALLY need an escort. It only got destroyed because some dude with inside knowledge AND magical aiming/driving powers exploited a backdoor, otherwise it would have solo’d the rebel alliance. Empire didn’t know about the weak point either
@@VTWS And Tarkin does not share xp if he doesn't have to.
"Evacuate? In our moment of trrriumph? I think you overrrestimate their chances."
There was at least one other time in Canon where the Rebels tried to win the war quickly: they tried to assassinate the Emperor on Coruscant. Sidious fought them all himself. Only one survived, and he was left disfigured by Force lightning and presumed K.I.A. by the Alliance. He'd later go rogue, break into the Alliance's secret Sunspot Prison, and execute most if not all Imperials being held there for trial after the war.
Also, a lot of Imperials in both continuities actually blamed Tarkin's arrogance for the destruction of the Death Star, which is technically true, but a lot of other people were right there with him, believing the station was invulnerable and stroking his ego in the process. Ego, that's what killed the planet killer.
But honestly, if Luke wouldnt have been a jedi - the assumption would have been right.
Ego the living planet???
Lol
@@Jallorn Mogo, you mean Mogo.
@@Isolder74 Nope. Mogo is DC. Ego is Marvel. I meant Ego
@@hallarious506 technically Luke wasn't a Jedi at that point, but that's just me being a nerd.
General Dodonna: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct, large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense.
Gold Leader: Pardon me for asking, sir, but what good are snub fighters going to be against that?
General Dodonna: Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense.
this is sort of like them talking about an island covered in guns and going "they have no runway so there is no way to stop our small bombers from getting in close" and then only 1 attack craft hitting its target.
Also, Luke only really hit due to plot armour, while I'm not gonna hold this against the story, if you are in the position of criticising the deathstar the deathstar was killed by the mix of a deus ex machina (yeah the Millennium Falcon wouldn't be able to get that close) and space magic.
Here here
I am probably mistaken, but wasn't there something that said the Death Star actually had a really good hyperdrive and simply outran its defense fleet, assuming it would be immune to any attack the Rebels could muster.
It has star destroyers docked on it. Tarkin simply didn’t deploy ANYTHING because of sheer hubris and the belief that the alliance had nothing that could actually hurt the Death Star.
@@nathantudor5763I mean they didn’t. He just got absolutely trolled.
You guys are thinking too hard. George Lucas was on a strict budget making this movie, and by the time it came out, he was already running on hopes and fumes.
@@wisegamer706 incorrect. Well partially. It seems likely that Motti’s star destroyer Steel Talon was docked with the Death Star during the battle of yavin, seeing as it was his ship, and it’s chief gunner Tenn Graneet was also aboard the Death Star when it was destroyed. Logically if the ships commander and chief gunner were aboard a space station capable of docking with their ship, it would seem reasonable that their ship was docked there if they were both aboard.
@@jibril2473 absolutely film wise. Lore wise is a different story.
"arrogance and stupidity all in one package how efficient of you"-londo mollari
@@michaelandreipalon359 "you talk like a minbari"
💯 It's one of my favourite shows 😁👍
"Next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way that isn't quite so uncomfortable."
LondoXG'kar is the best friendship in tv
Well said
Who wants to live forever?
Marcus- I do, actually. But what the hell.
Then nearky gets shot for even more boxes. Man had a death wish.
A Star Destroyer didn't carry 37,000 troopers. It carried 37k crew - everything from officers, engineers, pilots, ground crew, techs, troopers and storm troopers. Not really the same thing.
Potato Potahto
@@animalhalo5984 not really, it makes the scale make more sense
@@animalhalo5984 more like potato tomato. They are military but vastly different in terms of capability and knowledge.
Actually, it's 37K crew, and up to another 9.7K troops.
37K for a moon sized station seems pretty small
The question about Star Destroyers not going into battle with a full compliment fits in well with Solo for me. Han comments that there is no way that they would waste a fighter on the Falcon, speaking from experience. It seems like he would have been used to serving on lightly armed Star Destroyers, maybe as the Empire is building Star Destroyers faster than it can outfit them with full compliments of fighters and troops.
What would've won the Battle of Yavin for the Empire is if they had deployed a fighter screen as soon as they came out of hyperspace. The rebels were only able to field a couple of squadrons of X and Y-wings. The Death Star's onboard fighter compliment would've been more than enough to overwhelm Red and Gold Squadrons before they even got near the Death Star, especially if Vader decided to join the fight.
@@michaelandreipalon359You can clearly see in the movie that only X-Wings and Y-Wings were involved
@@zacharysilver911There's more continuity than the film in any canon you're referencing. He literally said it's canon to Legends and not included in the film, obviously.
Well, if you just go with what we can actually see on-screen, the handful of TIEs that were launched DID overwhelm Red and Gold squadrons. 8 out of 9 fighters that made the attack run against the exhaust port were shot down (and if Han hadn't decided to come back, it would have been 9 out of 9), and we only see three fighters (out of the 30 that went in) returning to base after the Death Star was destroyed.
In the novel, 4 Squadrons conducted the attack; Red and Gold for the attack run, the other two were supposed to provide cover and a distraction. It's also stated when the Officer briefs Vader; 'We count 30 Rebel ships, My Lord'. That's about 4 under strength Squadrons, after the losses taken at Scarif.
Tarkins biggest mistake was not launching his TIE fighter's sooner; the DS carried 1000 fighter's; but, that wasn't part of the plot.
@@gregdomenico1891That's exactly my point. If the Imperials had had a fighter screen in position at the outset of the fight - instead of waiting to launch them until the battle was already underway - the rebels wouldn't have stood a chance.
The only vulnerability the second Death Star possessed, was one that any reasonable person would have deemed literally impossible to exploit. Perhaps Vader and Palpatine should have known better, but the latter especially was essentially a dark side demon already drunk off of a perceived victory; and Vader was just his attack dog (I'm being cheeky). Empires in real life have suffered crippling defeats in war for worse reasons.
I would like to posit an answer for the "What was the Rebellion's Plan for the Winning the War". In the old West End Games Star Wars game, the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook: there is a section of a lore text that is written from Mon Mothma to Ackbar upon being assigned Commander of the Entire Alliance Fleet. This is written around some time after the Battle of Hoth.
"Currently, we have no intentions of sending your Fleet into formal battle against the Imperial Navy. All of our energies are engaged upon building up our forces and formenting rebellion on Imperial Worlds. The only Alliance Forces which are actively conducting offensive operations are the independent starfighter wings, guerrilla forces, and covert ground assault unit. These are, of necessity, very limited in scope."
"However, we are willing to fight if the prize is large enough. The Emperor is all that holds the Empire together. Destroy him, and all will crumble. Palpatine cannot hide in the Imperial City forever. All of our activities are designed to bring him out in the open, to ccreate situations which demand his personal attention, situations with which even Lord Vader cannot deal."
"We will rip at his flanks, frighten his Moffs and Grand Moffs, and encourge his most important planets to rebel. If we can, we will Vader. Eventually, when we become noxious enough, the Emperor will take the field himself. When he does, we will risk everything - include your command - to destroy him. You must be ready for that day."
"If we are successful, the war is won. If not, the conflict will drag on for decades."
I would say from a legends standpoint, this happened. When the Emperor died, all the factions that were subservent to him turned on one another and the Empire fractured into pieces and the Rebellion turned New Republic was able to fight the pieces of the Empire into submission.
I miss legends.
The Star Destroyers during the Lucrehulk attack were there to defend to Death Star during it's construction.
From Wookiepedia, the Imperial class Star Destroyer did indeed have a crew 37,000 crew, PLUS around 9k stormtroopers. Which is why Booster Terrik had such a time keeping the Errant Venture going when not supplemented by the New Republic. In "I, Jedi" the Errant Venture was down three of its turbolaser emplacements.
The attack was foolish and a waste.
Because it was coated in 10,000 turbolaser batteries, 2,600 ion cannons, and 768 tractor beam projectors-- more than 166 star destroyers. It also had 7,293 tie fighters, which is about seven Lucrehulks.
And a Superlaser capable of cracking a planet every day or a Capital Ship/Carrier every minute or so.
However, none of its defenses mattered since the response to a bunch of snub fighters should've been "Send out all the TIEs" not "handful of TIEs" and Tarkin chose the latter the hubristic idiot he was.
There were actually ships around the Death Star. That is where "The Tarkin's Will" comes from.
But the real answer is:
"Your overconfidence is your weakness." - Luke Skywalker
"Your faith in your friends is yours." - Darth Sidious
And doesn't that just say everything about the OT?
I always struggle about when did Luke had a problem because of too much faith in his friends. In fact he has a problem in ESB because he thinks they can't solve the problem themselves and will die.
The Y-Wing which survived the battle was one of three assigned to fly high cover and take on any escort ships, right? They were the only three Y-Wings left with functioning ion cannons.
Short Answer: Hubris
Long Answer: The hubris of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin
_Sheer fuggin hubris._
To answer Question 2, typically insurgencies (in the real world) are at a disadvantage when they hold onto territory. Successful revolutions (Mao, American, Maccabees, Viet Cong etc.) have relied on guerrilla warfare which has allowed for the ‘rebels’ to be harder to pinpoint as well as more psychologically terrifying. Mao has a whole book on this stuff and the Star Wars rebellion follows the guidelines pretty well.
The Star Destroyer Design is also rooted in real life philosophy: in peace time (which would be the state before the Galactic civil war becomes hot) you produce few ships that can fulfill a lot of roles at the same time. In war you produce more ships that are more specialized, like the US produced 100 light aircraft carriers per year in WW2.
They didn't even learn from this plunder! In episode 6, they ambushed the Rebel Fleet with a not yet constructed Death Star 2 that had a ship sized tunnel, leading to its weak spot😂The arrogance and stupidity of the Empire was truly amazing.
It was a trap that literally had them scrambled and at the Empire's mercy until 2 random acts of god got them out of their jam.
The Empire did literally everything right at the Battle of Endor.
The operation only happened because the rebels believed they stood a chance at destroying DS2, but only if they committed their entire fleet.
@@Necromancer4267true it seemed either the Rebels plans had been anticipated OR judging from how the movie we saw played out the Empire under Palpatine himselfs direction manipulated the Rebels into massing for a deliberate sorta attack like they did. An like mentioned an shown many times an act of God, the Force, Plot an handful of lucky breaks for the characters they managed to turn the tables and beat yet another super weapon
@@Necromancer4267if they'd literally done everyting right, then they wouldn't have been defeated at Endor. Just wait a few weeks until the Death Star is completed.
@@Elias-qb2ks they death Star2 did not have a couple of weeks to be completed, maby a couple of years
#AskEck
If allowed to intervene as Valorum wanted, what would a confrontation between Republic Judicial Forces and the Trade Federation have looked like during the Naboo Crisis?
Who would've come out on top? What would the aftermath be? You touch on it here, but could you expand your thoughts?
The Judicials tend to get disparaged, but they *were* the single largest armed force in the Galaxy and the TF seemed to fear direct Republic intervention.
In practically every Star Wars space simulator in replaying the Battle of Endor, there are Star Destroyers (or at least just 1 in the path of the Rebel starfighter squadrons).
I figured they didn't want to interfere with the risk of losing them as they lined up to take out the Rebel base, but my understanding was that there was at least 1 or maybe a few in a very wide, loose perimeter.
The fact that Trade Federation could create army of droids and have weapons on ships was already a signal to the Republic that it was too late. Blockade over Naboo was just an end result of that, as Eckharts said. The result was not really important since corporations were given too much power, Republic was too corrupted and worlds were undefended + Outer Rim was constantly being ignored...Naboo was just the igniter for conflict
I've been working on a fan fiction book about Admiral Ackbar, and I think there could be some really engaging story telling about what the efforts of the rebellion were really all about prior to the Battle of Yavin. We had a galaxy that was ripped apart by the Clone Wars, and then the empire swept in and focused all their resources on a military occupation of the entire galaxy. The rebels would have been in a position to make that process of garrisoning the galaxy as expensive as possible by attacking supply lines and harassing the empire in ways that prevented them from focusing their military resources on worlds that might have planetary defenses like shielding, ion cannons, or even defensive fleets. But on top of that, there could have been significant humanitarian work that the Rebellion could have undertaken to win hearts and minds in the parts of the galaxy that the empire wasn't supporting, but perhaps the Alliance could.
The Death Star's weapon was built by a known Rebel Sympathizer who had ties with an extermist.
The Empire got what it paid for.
They were too proud of that technological terror they constructed.
Storywise, because they thought it was invincible. And not without reason. Only a few people knew about the Death Star's one weakness, the exhaust port, and the Empire had no way of knowing that info had been obtained by the Rebellion. And even knowing about that port, it was an extreme longshot for the Rebels to exploit it. Which Luke did, against all odds. (With the help of the Force.)
"Your overconfidence is your weakness"
From what i heard the plan of the Rebellion was to kill Palpatine and Vader and then deal with what happens next. As long as Palpatine was squatting on Coruscant they couldn't do anything and Palpatine knew it.
I figure the Star Destroyers assigned to protect the Death Star were the same ones that were sent out to Dantooine to strike at the Rebel base there, and then began an extensive search of the outlying systems once they found the outpost to be long-abandoned.
The fleet was scattered and needed time to marshal together before rejoining the Death Star at Yavin.
In the game "Rebel Assault", there IS a Star Destroyer between you and the Death Star and you must fight your way through waves of TIE Fighters on your way to your target.
The clone wars couldn't have been started earlier, the clones and ships weren't ready. The first batch of clones finished training a few months before Geonosis, and the ships and equipment had only started arriving from Rothana to complete their training and transportation.
True, in fact it would have ruined Palpatine's plans if the separatist movement was started sooner and the GAR was formed without the clones, because it meant there wouldn't be clones everywhere to kill the Jedi
@@battlesheep2552 Without the clones, the separatist movement would have held off the republic easily with their massive robot fleets that they already had and could easily have continued expanding.
The republic would have had no choice but to allow worlds to leave the republic and Palpatine would have been viewed as a ineffective any attempt to increase his power or give him "emergency powers" would have been voted down as he was the weak chancellor seen as grasping for anything to not look weak.
He would have had to have taken then clone army and their fleets to the unknown regions and set them up as a empire of the hand type thing.
There are two early PC games showing some escorts for the Death Star at Yavin.
"X-Wing" Tour 3 Mission 12 had a small fleet of Corvettes and a Frigate escorting the DS. For some reason, destroying a deployed comsat disrupted coordination of that defense.
"Rebel Assault" Chapter 12 had one Star Destroyer deploying TIEs to intercept Blue Squadron on its way to the Death Star. These X-Wing broke through the TIEs and met with the other squadrons.
Fun fact: The novelisation of ANH had four Rebel squadrons attacking the Death Star, with two of them doing diversionary strikes while squadrons Blue (Red in the movie) and Red (Gold in the movie) attacking the exhaust port.
I would guess that the biggest threat the death star would face, not the exhaust port, would be a ground assault. Specifically a ground assault, with the intent of delivering large explosives to the inside.
As we can see from a new, Hope the death star does not have a shied for close attacks.
#AskEck during the battle of endor, was endor shielded and were mon calamari cruisers (the main big ships the rebel alliance used) capable of orbital bombardment. If endor wasn't and the mc cruisers could, why didn't the rebels instead choose to bombard the moon in an attempt to blow up the shield generator as opposed to sending a team down there, which i thought would be far riskier. Even sending in a squad of fighters/bombers to go down and blow it up seems like a better idea. I couldn't find answers to the first 2 but it seemed like if the rebels attacked both the death star and endor at the same time, unless the empire deployed fighters fast enough (which they never do) to get to endor, the rebels would have had little to no resistence.
I think Endor was shielded with the Death Star. When the strike team arrives in a shuttle, they need to transmit codes to the Executor so that they will let them through the shield blocking Endor.
Member when Han and Co asked the Imps to disable the shield using a older code that checks out. Hence the reason Vader sensed luke . Its because the shield came up from the planet and the entire area was included in that swath. Hence why Han says If they dont go for this we will have to get out of here really quick. Also Leia says lets see if the code is worth the price we paid.
2:20 around this area of the video I was reminded of all the ties patrolling in RotJ. It seems lesson was learned and that fact shown to us.
The Death Star had to be public knowledge or at least known to down to planetary governors because the Imperial Senate was disbanded before Alderaan was destroyed. The officers with Tarkin were worried about removing the bureaucracy even knowing about the Death Star. There would be no logic in doing that while depending on a single weapon if no one knows you have such a weapon.
There is, if they were planning a coup.
What’s interesting is that (even before the post-hoc Rogue One) the Empire was reasonably worried about the Rebels’ possession of the Death Star plans. They probably assumed that any would-be weakness would either be inconsequential, or would be so hard to find the Empire would reach the Rebels before they had a chance to exploit it.
They needed to have some little frigates docked in the Death Star to deploy when some bothersome flies showrd up, as well as their TIE squadrons.
I find the concept, that the reason for the lack of the Imperial navy not having more of a presence at Yavin is the part where Tarkin wanted complete credit for the destruction of the rebellion. Because he was at odds with other parts of the military structure - as I see Moff (Grand or otherwise) being a political appointment more than a military one.
During World War II - the biggest opposition and enemy of the Imperial Japanese Navy was the Imperial Japanese Army - they kept fighting each other for resources and a voice with the high command - there was no cooperation between the two and it was one of (many) reasons they lost WWII.
In the game X-wing, the Death Star DID have a small escorting fleet, but none of those ships were anything larger than a Nebulon B Escort frigate, also backed up by a few Corellian Corvettes. A mission before attacking the Death Star involved destroying a single communication satellite among all of them to deprive the Empire of the ability to call for help. Also, ONE ISD was said to be there, but it was destroyed by X2's Grey Squadron.
“The more they overthink the plumbing…the easier it is to stuff up the drain..” Montgomery Scott…in another time and galaxy
It was hubris, just that . Absolute confidence in the battle station and its awesomely terrifying power. At this time barely anyone could challenge the empire openly. The rebels did have one victory that led to the stealing of the Death Stars plans but even that did little to worry the enormous might of the empire. Tarkin ego was his own enemy, had he taken the time needed to assemble a force to protect the station while also eliminating the rebels . That assault on Yavin would have been a victory instead of a defeat that would embolden future rebel forces to come.
It’s a small moon sized battle station. Where I assume you would need multiple fleets of ISD protecting the Death Star.
There are so many pieces missing from that first Death Star battle, it's maddening. The station alone should have had hundreds if not thousands of TIE fighters ready to go. For the Rebels to attack with only thirty ships and to have the Imperials *outnumbered* in the dogfights... It's insane. Especially once the Imperial analysts realized what the Rebels were trying to do. There's so much that has to be chalked up to pure Imperial stupidity.
That first movie gets so many nostalgia points. Take off the rose-colored lenses, and there's barely any substance.
Palpatine's hubris was the biggest undoing of the Death Star. Even Grand Moff Tarkin's own hubris was the downfall of the Death Star. The entire idea of the Death Star was a dumb idea and a collosal waste of Imperial lives and resources.
Had a Grand Admiral been in charge of the Death Star, he'd likely play a different playbook. He'd be cautious and even want a fleet to accompany it. Sure, it'd make it a bigger target but it also means its harder for the Rebels to at least attack it and be more mobile.
A fleet as it was coming online just painted a target on its back... It was fully capable of fielding more fighters than any SD and capital ships would just be FF hazards.
@@michaelandreipalon359 True. But even he'd make it harder for the Rebels to beat the Death Star, especially if he understands the weaknesses of the Death Star and has a better understanding of Rebel tactics. But Zaarin is no Thrawn and he's more of an engineer than a front line commander. I would say Teshik would have been a better field commander and I think his skills would be better in taking command of the Death Star despite the fact he may likely hate commanding the battle station. At least he's no idiot like Tarkin and he's more of a cautious commander.
@@michaellane5381 True. But it also deters Rebel attack fleets from engaging it. Also, quantity is it's own quality. By literally spamming local airspace and using overwhelming numbers to crush Rebel fighters, that negates the technical superiority of the X-Wings and aging Y-Wings. Plus, if you have small cruisers designed to counter Rebel fighters and bombers, that adds an extra layer of defense.
Sure, the Death Star is massive and may have more fighters than an ISD, but if you have a dedicated fleet that augments whatever defenses the Death Star has, what you have is an impenetrable wall for the Rebels to fight through. That's why I think a very reluctant but cautious Grand Admiral would have thought differently than Tarkin. A smart Grand Admiral would know the battle station is literally a huge target and he would want to ensure its survival by making it a very hard target to take down.
@@jaymikevillanueva1212 again I think it was a choice made in the stations infancy, had they succeeded in testing it at Yavin I think they would have given it escorts for following missions, they thought it had no weaknesses.
Would have had scout ships and fighter cover
I remember in the arcade game there were some Star Destroyers at the level where you attacked the Death Star.
I would just fly into the death star with the hyperdrive. Worked perfectly in the new movies !
Grand Moff Tarkin would definitely mock and refuse about the request of extra imperial fleet to guard the battle station.
#AskEck Could you compare the relationship between the Jedi Order and the Clone Troopers in Canon and Legends? What in-lore reasons are there for the difference?
Another thing to note about the Death Star falling to snub fighters is the truth that most wars are fought with hindsight. That is, technology, warfare and military doctrine are usually dated by default, the products of past experience rather than of forethought.
The last war (the Clone Wars) saw large vessels leading the fight: destroyers, dreadnoughts, cruisers, etc. Fighters played a crucial role, yes, but they weren’t seen as the primary threat.
The Empire needed (or thought they needed) weapons to counter fleets and battlecruisers. A Star Destroyer that could rend through smaller ships was certainly intimidating enough to prevent another Separatist uprising. And had the Empire actually fought against the Confederacy or something similar, they likely would have dominated.
But the Empire wasn’t quite prepared to take on squads of snub fighters. Instead of fighting cruisers armed with cannons, they were up against gnats armed with torpedoes.
The Empire was superior by every metric meaningful to warfare. But their defeat came because they weren’t initially ready, and didn’t adapt quickly enough, for the Rebels.
Having a Star Destroyer around at the battle of Yavin would have made a big difference because the battle plan would have been more flexible. Even with the Death Star gone, a Star Destroyer would have been able to prevent the rebels from moving their base to Hoth.
still the best outro there is
#AskEck How would the power dynamic between Tarkin and Vader have developed if Tarkin escaped the destruction of the first Death Star?
To quote a Starfleet Admiral: Sheer Fucking Hubris
very good question! I never thought about it
To be honest the empire probably thought the turbo laser towers would be enough to drive off these few rebel crafts.
Cool fact: Star Wars Trilogy Arcade from the late 90s had parts during the Death Star Yavin attack having Star Destroyers.
Lol your outtro gets me every time
One thing the alliance did not have was time.
More fighters, couple destroyers would have likely added a few vital minutes that the death star needed to fire
Actually, I think the survival of the Trade Federation occupation of Naboo has some pretty _big_ effects. For one, Anakin is almost certainly either captured or killed, and possibly the same for Obi-wan, and given how much of an effect those two had on the war...
0:53 "Still pretty much a secret installation?" Imagine if news of its construction was leaked ALL over the Galaxy, and I mean ALL OVER. Especially to the Imperial Senate before Palpatine could dissolve it. The Empire would've fractured waaay earlier, Palpatine (and his powers) notwithstanding.
They really needed a decent number of Thrawn's Tie Defender's which would have made short work of the X-wings. Although Thrawn greatly opposed the Death Star so although he would have been greatly disappointed by the loss of Imperial lives onboard he would not have been sad to see the Death Star (And probaby Tarkin) gone.
Honestly, escorting the Death Star with a Star Destroyer would be like escorting a nuclear carrier with a speedboat, scale-wise
#Askeck question, can you please remake your video on the hyperspace barrier around the galaxy? With Ashoka tackling the problem of the barrier, I’m interested in your ideas about extragalactic travel now. Thanks and congratulations on 1 million (not trying to flex but I’ve been subscribed since 100k)!
Edit: Thank you for answering my question!
I thought the Death Star, had a defensive fleet that was continuously docked with it and could deploy at a moment notice. I mean, we literally see enormous hangers where a fleet of star destroyers could literally dock as we approach the death star in the millennium falcon in the movie. There is also another hemisphere of the death star that we never really see so they might have been there…a possibility that’s just occurred to me, It’s possible they were just too far away to actually do any good especially if they were in that hemisphere that we don’t normally see.
But you’re right, Tarkin’s arrogance is what ultimately caused the death stars fall. Along with the lack of early deployment of defensive fighters. And the fact that the rebel alliance found the one critical weakness and deployed what fighters they could to exploit that.
And you can see in their second attempt with the death star 2 that they at least try to protect the Death Star in Geostationary orbit with the enormous fleet of star destroyers and an enormous complement of star fighters. But again we see arrogance coming to play with the Emperor himself being so arrogant as to believe that he would be impervious to attack on his death star also his arrogance believing Luke would actually turn to the Darkside or kill his father.
Well, one thing is for sure, the Emperor made sure that he wanted to protect the second Death Star in "Return of the Jedi", but setting up a trap for the Rebels by using Star Destroyers as a blockade to prevent the Rebel fleet from retreating.
I have 2 questions:
1.) What if the Droid Army turned on the Trade Federation during Naboo/turned on the Separatists during Geonosis and joined the Republic?
2.) What if Palpatine kept the Droid Military(but still killed the Separatist leaders except Grievous) and the clone military while still creating the new Imperial military?
They were too proud of that technological terror they created.
#askEck What is your favorite planetary system in star wars
The Empire knew that the Rebellion didn't have major Fleet Assets in the Region, and didn't think Small Craft would be a threat.
The Death Star had a LOT of protection. The only mistake they made was not recognizing their Flak turbolaser towers wouldn't be able to dissuade or shoot down enough fighters.
Thinking about it, there's no real good for reason for an ISD to ever not go out on patrol with as close to its full complement of fighters, support craft, troops, and ground vehicles. By being fully loaded and ISD is ready for any situation at any time and it doesn't need to go anywhere to pick up additional assets because all it had a was just its main crew and little else. It also means that you don't have to diver an ISD from elsewhere to handle a situation because the one nearest to the trouble spot doesn't have enough TIEs or Stormtroopers aboard it. It's like the US Navy and its carriers and amphibious assault ships, we don't send either one of them out without its full complement of planes and, in the case of the amphibs, Marines. In the case our amphibs formed into what are called MEUs (Marine Expeditionary Units) means that we, the US, have a Marine force that can get to any coastal area within 48 hours, armed and ready to go. They're also on hand in case of a natural disaster with the ship(s) being able to provide a certain amount of emergency power and act as a hospital.
If a couple of teenagers showed up on your front lawn and started throwing fire crackers your first thought isn’t going to be “ I should get out of here or call the cops before they send this house into the stratosphere”
#AskEck
What would the outcome of the Battle of Endor be like if the Rebel Alliance (in Canon) used the Viscount from the New Republic (in Legends) in their fleet to attack the Second Death Star?
Hey man, I love your videos. I have a question: I just watched your video on the center of the Galaxy from a few months ago. At around 6:35, there is a picture of a fleet around Byss. In the center, there is a large ship, which looks really strange: It has a Kuat Triangle tip, gets sort of circular in the middle, and the rear is somewhat... blocky? Do you know what type of ship that is?
Figured it out: It's the Modular Taskforce Cruiser, from Dark Empire and the Dark Empire sourcebook. I don't know if you have mentioned it in a video before, but I think it definitly deserves a mention just for looking so goofy.
people also forget that Tarkin refused to launch the Death Star's fighters. The only fighters that were launched was Vader's Death Squadron and perhaps the TIE patrols already outside the station. The fact that the Rebels were almost defeated shows that had Tarkin launched additional fighters, the station may have survived, and additional ships wouldn't have been necessary.
Furthermore, the Death Star's Star Destroyer escort had left along with General Tagge to search the Rebel base on Dantooine, that is why there weren't any additional ships.
The crew of an ISD is 37k (Officers 9 235, Enlisted 27 850), Gunners 275. It carried 9,7k stormtroopers
For the insurance money
Tarkin's command ship was present but used in a defensive stance
During the Clone War Anakin and Obi Wan stumbled and destroyed CIS secret weapon programs on a weekly basis. Surely, Palpatine and Vader would be more than aware of this sticking point and set up extra security for their secret projects.
The Death Star had over 7000 TIE fighters at it's disposal, but they only launched a small albeit elite squadron that was under Darth Vader's direct command.
#askeck exactly where WAS the exhaust port on the death star and the trench that led to it? was it at a pole? Was it a the antipode of the superlaser crater?
Something that is often over looked in the Death Star attack - between ground fire and the handful of fighters that were sent (a dozen, maybe less, I forget the exact total), 3/30 fighters, 2 X-wings (at least one badly damaged enough to be told to break off) and 1 Y-Wing, that's a 90% of Rebel forces destroyed when they weren't really even trying to defend the damn thing. Had the threat been taken more seriously and they launched more fighters sooner, it's over. Arrogant as the thinking was - it wasn't unwarranted, you'd likely need a fleet closer to what was used against the second Death Star in terms of fighters, if not more.
Which - the second DS battle exhibits also why having a fleet could also be a con, as they used their own fleet to shield from the DS attacks.
i think got a good #askeck question, although this is a multiversal starship vs than a lore question
which of these 2 ships would win if pitted against each other?
SDF-1 Macross from original Macross/Robotech anime series, or a standard ISD 2 imperial star destroyer. the Macross has its fighter and mechs and the ISD has its full fighter compliment
To put it simply, the Death Star is a moon-sized space station with a planet destroying laser. The Empire was more than confident in its destructive power that they didn't consider any fleet of small fighters a threat to it (and let's be real, they wouldn't in normal cases). Tarkin himself heard that the small fighter squad that had the job of attacking the port hole thing may actually be a threat and he was (rightfully) arrogant enough to consider them not a threat even saying that the officer who told him this "overestimate their chances". He paid for this arrogance with his life.
#AskEck How effective would the Dark trooper phase 3 and 2 (EU) be against the rebellion if they were mass produced and replaced the standerd stormtrooper?
The benefit could have been engaging the rebels further away but yeah, not scrambling was a mistake
I think Palpatine was sold on the premise that the Death Star was an impenetrable fortress
I’ve always wondered why didn’t they use their tractor beam(s) again. They captured the Falcon pretty easily. They could have captured fighters, and locked them in place until a TIE came along and destroyed it.
I did the math the Death Star did not have enough TIE fighters. The Death Star was huge and the TIE fighters were playing a zone defense, The rebels just overwhelmed the Defence in one specific area deemed unimportant
Vader, kind of forgot about, you know, Luke and the Rebel fleet
#AskEck do you support this theory. The Death Star wasnt build for destroying planets. It was build to defend the galaxy from the Yhou Zovong. Palpetine and the sith knew they were comming and the reason that the Sith wanted power was bc the was to defend the galaxy against the Yhou Zovong.
#AskEck Is there any information regarding what happens after space/land battles? What I'm referring to is whether there are certain body recovery/identification efforts made post battle? I know there are scrappers and such in the Star Wars universe, but it seems battlefields are kinda left to rot, such as Jakku and the Death Star debris field in Empire at War. I assume since the Rebellion is ongoing, they probably don't have the resources to "waste" on such things, but I am curious about it.
That is actually a good question, if the devastator was darth vader's personal flagship, where did it go after dropping him off at the death star
There was not a large time gap between the unveiling of the death Star and it's destruction. It was maybe days. Time was of the essence when the death star tracked the rebels to yavin so theh didnt have time to gather a fleet. Rogue One helped explain what could be considered a major plot hole in the original movie. The rebels found a major weakness extremely quickly which was only possible because it was purposeful. Tarkin would not have known that.
outro is prob the best I've ever seen. 66/10.
I could’ve sworn in Legends, the Death Star did have some ships as escorts at Yavin and the Rebel fleet engaged them to expose the Death Star to the fighter attack that ultimately took it out
#AskEck What do we know of the development of the Venator? Was it ready at the outset of the Clone Wars or did it enter service sometime after it began? And what did the Republic Navy have before the Venator (and by extension, the Victory) came into service that could stand up to Seperatist capital ships?
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Gargantua/Aratech 520 Battle Platform vs. A6 Juggernaut
Perhaps they should have sprung for some more point-defense laser cannons in addition to the beds of turbo lasers. Even if the hull is resistant to being hit, it still damages the internal structure somewhat.
It's my understanding that the galactic community was pretty conflicted on the alliance vs the empire before the destruction of Alderaan. A lot of star systems were not being opressed and saw the order and stability that the empire brought to their systems. Once the Death Star was revealed and Alderaan destroyed, it rallied even legitimate governments to support the alliance, even if they did so surreptitiously at first. This drove the alliance away from simply fighting to survive and live another day to actually having some military capability and a chance for success.
So before yavin the plan was to resist simply for the sake of resistance... to fight or protest evil. After that the plan involved maybe actually winning some battles and getting independence back to some systems, or even win the war.
The death star was supposed to be unsinkable, that's why there were not enough life rafts, they didn't think they would be needed