Acknowledging that the west made mistakes in the handling of Ukraine is not justifying the Russian invasion. History is nuanced and it is important to question all actions by the large powers.
Furthermore, ignoring the mistakes (small and big) made by the West and also by Ukraine provides the stuff for propaganda on all sides. It creates a bizzare situation in which criticism is simply not welcome.
Unfortunately there are about 5 min. of explanation of the connections missing. They explain that the journalists in part wrote speeches for politicians - and later wrote the articles in their respective newspapers about them. Max Uthoff asks: Doesn't this constitute a conflict of interest? Claus von Wagner's answer: There's only a conflict of interest when the interests ARE conflicting.
Keep in mind that this is only 10 minutes of the full 49 minutes episode. For the Anstalt I’d always suggest watching the full episode: usually all the parts are connected. Also I already saw channels of neonazis showing only the US-critical part but cutting away the 5 minutes following that - the parts which show German responsibility for the cruelty (“we Germans were first”).
kein inch weiter als bis zur ehmaligen grenze grenze zwischen brd und ddr wird sich die nato ausbreiten wenn man diesen fakt schreibt wird man als lügner und spinner hingestellt. keine nato soldaten dürfen in dem gebiet der ehmaligen ddr stationiert werden nur bundeswehr. das waren die versprechen an die russen die damit der wiedervereinigung zustimmten. hab ich ihren beitrag jetzt falsch verstanden? wer die usa machenschaften anprangert ist neonazi?
For me the most devastating joke is the double entendre in the scenery - Europa Solid-arisch. For those who don't speak German: "solidarisch" - solidaritous; "solid arisch" - "solidly Aryan". Whoever came up with that deserves a serious bonus 🤣
And the camera just so happens to pan out for the channel's logo and the bottom part of the banner to be next to each other. Unintentional? Maybe... ;)
Quick sidenote: on Timecode 11:28 you can see the poster on the top. There is a german twist on that Poster. The translation can be: "Europe solidaric" or "Europe solid aryan"
Their "Tafelnummer" (the part when they reveal their findings on the board they rolled in) is a highlight everytime and never disappoints. If I remember correctly they had at least two other of these in other episodes which lead to lawsuits. In court they always won. 😎
Another good reaction video! Always a joy to see your honesty and wonder. Your light scottish accent is very easy to understand and easy on the ears for a German. I would love to see you do more formats, maybe an interview or talk with a German!
You are not from germany, right? I'm living here and Merts accent is for me sometimes very difficult to understand, although it sounds funny. Ask an Yankee or a Brit, who has learned german and comes the first time to East Bavaria or Saxony if he understands something... ;) There are various english dialects that are not easy to understand for foreigners, for instance of the US Middlewest or Cockney in London or the Liverpool dialect...
@@TessaractAlemania-hd7tvI´m german (from the western part) and I can confirm: His scottish accent is easy to understand for me. At least much better as the accent from anyone of London. BTW.: At first glance I aussumed his accent to be dutch...
I found Mert's harsh accent quite difficult to understand at first, but after getting used to it I found that I understand it better than some other English accents. Can someone maybe tell me where the u - like in German - is pronounced like a u? So not stuff like /stʌf/, but like stoof, but with a short vowel.
What i really like about "Die Anstalt" is the nuance in the backgrounds. above the mainscreen on the set there is a transparent which got uncovered during an earlier act. On it are the words "Europa solidarisch" ("solidaric Europe"), but because of space confinement it's written "Europa solid- arisch". The proper syllibification for solidarisch in german would be "so-li-da-risch". But we also know the words "solid" and (born and used by the nazis) "Arisch" which was used to describe "a race of ethnicity to be born german, raised by germans with german ancestors". Which is a pun intentional unintended or unintentional intended... well it was inteded in the setting of the act.
Shows like Die Anstalt are the reason i gladly pay GEZ fees for the national TV service. They aren't perfect all the time but they put their finger on a lot of sore spots that should get a lot more attention. I can't quite agree with their take on NATO/Russia here but yeah, it's not as onesided as a lot of other voices make it out to be.
Well, Putin showed them he is indeed of an imperialistic Russian mindset…so they were wrong in their take, same as a lot of German politicians along with them. Don‘t know if they would have appreciated the company, tbh…but owning up to bad takes as they said, takes balls. Good for them!
@@TheCaptainCrack Not only ARD and ZDF are supported via GEz, Also 3Sat and Arte and Arte is a very big driver in the music scene so. i dunno. you like to enjoy complaining, like any true german ;)
This show was in 2014, if we would have tried some how to understand the narrative of Russia what does not mean excepting. I‘m sure more Ukrainians would be still alive, Russians as well, Cities not destroyed because of doing politics instead of war. Because… an Narrative is just an ego point of view ours as well. If you compare two ego narratives the part which comes almost together is the piece which is next to reality.
Danke Mert for reminding me of these classics. I left Germany a long time ago and got out of touch with this country, as there are many things I hate about it and things that simply dont work, BUT thanks to you, i got some of the appreciation for some of the good parts of Germany, its political satire. Pispach and The Antstalt are indeed top notch, and that running on the 2nd State channel is even more hillarious. Cant wait for your next video, sub so earned!
With regard to the last image: thats why I for one am happy, that we have a public broadcast organisations (ARD, ZDF) that are independently financed by a fee on every houshold and company in germany. They certainly are not completly unbiased, but they are although not on the pupetstring of either the goverment or any more or less covert private interest.
I was a bit putindefender before he started the war. Not because I didnt know that his "democracy" is a farce or that he is incredibly dangerous because of his upbringing and career... but because the western media glossed over some very critical things that he was able to speak about very eloquently... But ever since the invasion, I can not defend that man, his politics or even his voters anymore. Yes the usa did similar things and sometimes even worse stuff in the middle east... And I never defended them! But this is on a whole new level... that war is directly correlated to the east-west conflict and negates everything he ever said...
it's not a whole new level. the us bombed defenseless countries that didn't do anything. russia attacks ukraine because the eastern border of russia is being nato-fied. here, ukraine, the defender, has full support of the west, unlike the middle eastern countries.
I watched a few of your videos and I liked them ....but this one is absolutely brilliant... Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪 ❤ I subscribe to your channel right now
The hardes Facts about this „connections“ are still coming in this Act. But this Part was the reason, for the „Bann“ of this Episode. The last „Board Act“ was about 7 min long. I found only German versions on RUclips. If some one found a version with subtitles, please send the link.
this episode isnt banned anymore for years now! it was only for a short time, but since they used facts and no lies it got "unbanned" after a view month.
@@hermannmakuta3311 Ich bin auch gespannt, manchmal wenn ich dann doch die Übersetzung mitlese, denke ich mir .. kein Wunder, dass die Reaktionäre das nicht verstehen.
@@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233 - Einiges zu Übersetzen war auch nicht nicht leicht ... wie zur Hölle soll ich "für lau" übersetzen ... mein Vater mit 0 englisch Kenntnissen "little money" ? Das war genial
I realy enjoy reacting-videos from people from foreign countries. This isnt a bad episode, its well made. The problem is that you have to know that this satire is 100% leftside. So they only have left talkingpoints. They started with kind of subliminally messages, but the more you look the more this is a commercial for leftwing parties. Many people from here in Germany i know have stopped watching this because it's unbearable.
Society-critical cabaret on television is less and less tolerated by those in charge. Demanding programs are becoming fewer and fewer to make room for programs that mean brain death for viewers. Sorry for my bad English with greetings from Germany!
Please look at the big traditional annual German political cabaret. Bavaria: "Nockherberg" and Achen Carnival: "Orden wieder den tierischen Ernst" Important German politicians are always in the audience. Both can be found on youtube
The claims that this was banned is pure fishing for views. What happened was that private people sometimes file civil court cases against this show. In the inital proceedings the judge has to assume that the claimant might win (unless it is very obvious a fraud case) and depending on the severity of the claim in question can preminilary rule that the showrunners are not allowed to repeat or distribute the potential offending claim. Thus ZDF (the entity responsible for production and distribution in this case) takes the accsess down until the case is done (since so far they never lost given that free speech and freedom of the arts are both constitutional rights in Germany). This has no influence on thrid parties shareing their recordings at all. It's similar to the urban myth that owning "Mein Kampf" was ever illegal in Germany. What was not allowed was printing it. And that was a copyright issue (the owner of the copyright did not allow for new Germany versions to be printed). By now the Copyright expired and i.e. Historians brought out commented versions to showcase what a stupid mess it actually is.
I usually am of the same opinion as “Die Anstalt”, but somehow I already had a feeling back in 2014 that Russia invading Crimea was much worse than it was treated. Wish I was wrong. Apart from that I am a huge fan of this show, because you get so much information presented in an entertaining way. Usually they are right about their topics. This episode shows some of their few mistakes.
And why was it bad or worse? According to US surveys from pre annexation, the majority of Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, rather than Ukraine. And Russia made sure, that they dont burn Russians alive like the Ukrainian militants did in the Odessa massacre, so it was actually a good thing that saved lives. Of course their motiviation was the military base in Sevastopol, I am not denying that, but it had the positive side effect of avoiding any massacres such as the one in Odessa.
Well but they didnt done a mistake at all, they didnt really said it is russian right to just take crimea. They just claimed that in other cases which are similiar the Nato or EU is completly fine since it is to their favor and not against em(and even lie about votings that never happend, like Obama did! and hes a good one , isnt he?). But when russia does the same it is suddenly a war crime, a crime against humanity(and at least they let the people vote since they know they will vote for them). That is mostly their story, and it is completly right. The EU in 1996 already know what would happen if the nationalists western part of Ukraine ( not my words, but EU words ) will bully the eastern russian part it may end up in a civil war. That is an assessment from the EU from 1996! They back than had the knowledge that eastern Ukraine is way more related to Russia than the west and still claime, that the voting on Crimea was illegal or staged, but i think that is a lie so we have a reason to call out the new Hitler, and Hitler we all know, we cant debate with, we can only kill! That is was happens now, only killing, killing and even more killing funded with your and my tax-money! The problem is like over 90% of the people doesnt even know about this assessment done by the EU in 1996. But in my eyes it shows perfectly how the western world is absolutly knowing what happened there and still denie it to give us just their "right" view, the view they want us to see but nothing less and nothing more. Russia does alot of propaganda too, but they will never make such briliant propaganda than the western world does. Iam still shocked if i read commentary under news about Ukraine war, how pathetic people defend lies from both sides, even most of the lies spreaded, so easy to detect, you need just seconds with google, SECONDS! But people dont seem to have seconds to prove news bullshit or non bullshit.
@@bjornborg4849 War currently 400,000 dead on both sides How many were burned by idiots (if that's true, smells like Russian propaganda) crimea annexed to save "russians" how many russians died from the war now?
@@bjornborg4849 How many Russians would have been burned in Ukraine if Russia hadn't invaded Crimea? Probably close to none. You make it sound like Ukrainian militants made a habit of burning people at the stake - instead, the clashes between two violent militant groups set a building on fire. Both sides in that clash are to blame. It was very bad. Okay. There is also a difference between an opinion poll (which may have errors and uncertainties) and an election at gunpoint (which is certainly not allowed to have "errors"). This episode had issues. It wasn't completely bad, though.
@@Enyavar1ok "burned" probably not many, but killed and oppressed, many many more. The issue is that before the 2014 regime change previous Administrations mostly sought to have compromise between a pro Russian (most popular in eastern Ukraine) and a pro European stance (most popular in western Ukraine, e.g. in Lviv). This includes "evil supposedly pro Russian president yanukovich" who was back and forth between EU and Russia and eventually did the economic association with Russia instead of EU cause Russia offered like 20x as much money, so he actually acted in his country's interested by taking the better offer. However after the violent unconstitutional "regime change" that was clearly pro western, some did not agree with it and feared a one sided policy. And they weren't wrong... I can tell you one thing. As often as the Ukrainians shell civilian districts of Donezk city (almost daily since 2014) and even used illegal personell mines there to kill as many "pro Russian civilians" as possible, and all the statements from Ukrainian officials that all who live under Russian rule are no longer Ukrainians and should be killed... With those actions and statements against their own people that they claim they want to liberate... I highly doubt that there would not have been a lot more deaths anyway.
Outrageous part here (14:15): the show is cut short just before they criticize the BILD for forcing their journalists to always side with transatlantics, and former Kai Diekmann, former chief editor of the BILD who moved out after being accused of sexual harassment, who was working as chairman of the atlantic bridge.
@@ArneBab as far I know he had a consentual affair with her, it was only causing outcry cause "sex with someone from workplace" and "age difference", but I hear for the first time harassment or the like. It was consensual afaik
Important to explain that they spit the german word for solidarity purposely in a way that it forms the two words "solid aryan" to give it an ambiguous meaning.
It was not really banned (like censored or something), two journalists felt attacked by the episode and tried to impede that ZDF makes the episode publicly available.
@@GilbMLRS what? No it is not, it is an legal dispute and deciding between different interests (protection for the journalist against false claims and right of a TV station to present things that are in public interest). Censorship is not because someone has a legal objection, but censorship is when a government body or something like that reviews media products to prevent unwanted content from being broadcasted or published. And that is indeed my problem with the title, because "banning" implies that there is an authority in Germany that can prevent unpopular things to be made public. In Germany only if you have violated a law your newsarticle or show or anything can become restricted (for example if you violate "youth protection laws" your song will be restricted and put on the index).
@@ReuterL Yeah that is why ZDF was ordered by the court as my understanding goes to take down the full episode on their mediathek and ZDF was not allowed to air the episode again - that is the reason why you now only find this videos with a cut ending and a blured spot on the whiteboard under which I think the logo of "Die Zeit" would have been shown ... but that is only my understanding after a short internet research. I couldn't find the actual case being fully or partially published on juristic websites.
Well.. they criticize how the media reported that conflict but that changed nothing how russia behaved pre war.. and russian definitely built that separatism in east ukraine.. its proven and didn't work in several other oblast..
I feel a bit embarrassed when I see this now, because at that stage I thought the same as these two. But since 24022022 everybody should admit that Russia is a brutal aggressor, bombing innocent people of an independent country. This is not excusable.
"the bravery of this show" - this is German public TV satire. Usually the organization has their back, as long as they make sure they get the facts right.
The full 49 minutes episode ends with a song by Konstantin Wecker written for his Friend Willy who got murdered by a Neonazi, a song against group-think and against war and for standing up to what you believe in.
There was another great duo: Christoph Sieber and Tobias Mann. Their show "Mann, Sieber!" alternated with "Die Anstalt". They were equally great, but their show got cancelled in 2020. There is was less and less political satire/cabaret on German TV over the last couple of years. It gets pushed out of the way in favour of the less political comedy and surely, because it addresses things critcally. Thinking back how much political satire was still on TV 20, 30, 40 years ago, this is a sad development. But, of course, many of the old ones died or retired and there to few young political cabaret artist in comparision with comedy. Sad, really sad, but from the politicians point of view definitely something they are happy about.
It's not just the newspapers. These are also represented on German private radio and TV. While the broadcasters financed by broadcasting fees often presented themselves as critical of the government.
Hi Mert, thanks for putting up this video. I have not seen it before, but I am shocked of what I have seen there. Public funded media by the way (I have to pay for this). I grew up with the message, never again. For me, this also means to stop (Genocide) at least on main land Europe. Therefore I can not understand this non-funny comedy. Furthermore, both comedians support left and right wing populism. And adding Gabriele Krone-Schmalz, she is a known Putin-Lover, is a disgrace. This is comedy in (comparing it with Brexit) like comedy for Farage. It also suggests some kind of consolidation of media powers, but to be honest 90% of experts agree that Russia is the villain and has to loose.
The first victim of every war is the truth, on both sides. That's what I keep in mind reading/watching the news. Second thing to remember is the question of who benefits from an incident. Often you can shorten that if you ask yourself "Does the US benefits from incident xy?" If the answer is "yes"... well...
That's great. I think most people do not read the news from both sides and never ask "who benefits" since their one sided news stories already give them the clue - this side is good, this side is bad. I can highly recommend to read both sides, but also to read third parties - what do the Indians, the Arabs and the Brazilians report about a certain topic? Wion, Hindustan Times (Indian) and Al Jazeera (Arab) often have a third or middle point of view
The history of German political cabaret is truly remarkable. It is precisely NOT comedy, but a journalistic form of presentation and as such is subject to the same criteria as all others to the so-called "press code", especially, of course, when it runs on publicly financed radio (as was the case with this program by "Die Anstalt"). Above all, this means that all the factual claims mentioned are based on verifiable facts. To ensure this, political cabaret in public broadcasting has its own editorial departments. In recent years, this public (and publicly financed) broadcasting has been increasingly defamed as "state broadcasting". From whom may one think ...
Unimaginable that Putin himself wanted to join Nato at one point in time. But of course not in the way every other country had to. He wanted special treatment. Now he has it, but not in the good way.
My view definitely changed with the start of the Ukraine war. I think I had the same sort of naivety that many of us had with regards to Russia. I think it has something to do with how much our attitudes have changed, and with the prosperity gained since having lasting peace in Europe. I think to us, violent imperialism just seems very primitive and anachronistic, and so as someone not very deeply familiar withe the Russian psyche, it just didn't make sense for a country we still considered culturally close to us to act so far differently from how we would act. At least that's how I make sense of why I didn't really expect this.
It wasn't banned....it was just normal episode like any other...It's tilled this way just to create attention or maybe even for propaganda. By the way.......anstalt also has an episode with self critisism, where they realised that west's hypocracy doesn't automatically mean Russia is on the good side.
The myth that the Episode was banned, Came from the fact That it was out for one week due to a Copyright Dispute. After That was clarified, it was completely back in the Media Library
and they never said for their own that russia is any good. And this episode wanst banned, but not allowed to show for couple of month, length of the court about it... So it basicly was banned for a couple of month.
I think the view on Russia is still completely valid. People lie before an during wars the most and the current view the media is conveying to the people throughout NATO member countries is Russia invaded Ukraine, this is unjustifiable, no one knows why they did it. However if NATO, a defensive alliance, gets involved in a war the framing is totally different and the main goal is to not criticize the US too much.
So happy he found that specific Piece. i don´t know if it was my Post or that of another Viewer. But this Piece of Information is very important. Sadly, i did not found any better Piece of that Episode with Subtitles. I linked in my Comment the complete Episode, sadly it has no english subtitles. And it is not back on the Air. It is, to this day, stil banned.
Do I, a partly German and partly Scottish lad, like the fact, that this guy watches German sarcasm political shows? I absolutely do, especially for the Scottish accent 🎉
There is a lot of discussion among me and my friends, too. A lot of people ignore or do not now the two following facts: - Russia had to verify and ratify _any_ extension of the Nato. And Russia did agree to all of the expansions in the past. - Russia, Ukraine, the US and England signed a contract that _accepts_ Ukraine's independence *and* _grants_ Ukraines territorial integrity. In exchange, Ukraine gave away it's nuclear arsenal. At that time, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear weapon power in the world. Following this contract, America and England would have been *obliged* to intervene at least when "Not-Russia" invaded East-Ukraine in 2014 (the invasion force did not wear any country insignia, so officially they weren't from Russia). Maybe to avoid further escalation, to this day, a direct intervention of US, British or Nato forces did not occur. Furthermore, Russia exited most (all?) remaining contracts to limit weapon production. This is a gateway to another arms' race.
1:10, subtitles skipped "Gutmensch" (lit. "good human") which can be **very** roughly translated as SJW. Though I'd say a "Gutmensch" is more likely to actually try to make things better and not just want to feel morally superior by attempting to shame others on bs that isn't an actual issue.
Back in the day I also thought that the separatists should be allowed to separate if they wanted to. And that Russia was not as bad as the media reported. I still think that actual Ukrainian separatists should have their right to self-determination, but Russia has absolutely started a genocidal war of aggression and must be stopped, because the rest of Ukraine ALSO has the right to self-determination. In hindsight, I'm not certain anymore how many people in the Donbas region actually wanted to separate and how many were Russian assets. Maybe the separatist movement was already done by Russian puppets and not by the majority of the people living there. I don't know. Same goes for the Krim.
Those "separatist" were always Russian puppets. All loyal Ukrainians who could leave, have left. Now the rest live in a mafia state-like purgatory, where Russia tells them, they are Russians, but their Russian passports don't grant them any of the rights. The men are instead sent to be slaughtered on the front. No matter how much Russians swear, these territories are part of Russia, they will be dropped at the first smell of defeat. Cherson is a prime example. Once that bridge is gone and military supplies run low, no Russian will fight for Crimea either.
For some insight of what has happened in Crimea after Russia occupied it, you could read the PDF "The human rights situation in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea during the seven years of occupation" by the NGO "Центр прав людини". I would give you a link, but YT doesn't like that. A small summary of the violations from another source (US. Department of State) "Significant human rights issues included: forced disappearances; torture and cases of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by Russia or Russia-led “authorities,” including punitive psychiatric incarceration; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions and transfer of prisoners to Russia".
For me the 24th February taught me that the Ukraine annexation of 2014 actually is not difficult to evaluate and does not need to be viewed from different perspectives.
A main problem of politics and the media is addressed here: double standards. The other side is not allowed to do what "we" do because it is "something totally different".
Not really, all of the points they made where false or not infull context. The seperated parts of ukraine worked with russian troops and equipment, the referendum was oversighted by russia alone, the annexation of the krim was by force. So there is a huge difference, sure we have to look at both sides, the iraq war is one of the best examples for that but here in this episodes their points where very badly made and aged terrible.
@@gonzo2495 And we Europeans can not accept it. But we totally accept the war crimes of the US/British/French governments. Or do you see any critizism about that in the mainstream media like FaZ, Zeit, SZ, Bild or the tv? Double standards.
About if my stance towards the Ukraine Conflict changed: A bit, yes. Putin invading Ukraine isn't justifiable in any way. However, I will say that when the Civil War was going on, in 2014 mainly, the media painted two pictures of the same actions depending on which side did them. I just don't think that NATO has any right to claim the moral high ground based on our actions in the middle east. If we condemn the actions of Russia we must admit our own wrong doings too.
I really appreciated the satire of the "Anstalt" and most of the jokes they make. However, in my opinion this episode is among their most evidently biased ones and the political view of the makers clearly leans towards the left (somewhere between the position of the german "SPD" party and "Die Linke"). This bias is not always very prominent and may sometimes be sublimeal (it depends on the subject treated). In this case, however, the stance of the "old left" towards Russia is very apparent. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that those _knowledgeable journalists_ who travelled routinely to the soviet union and later to the remains of that former "empire" of sorts would almost never openly criticise the regime and rather defend the position of the east, maybe because of love for the russian culture in general or for fear of no longer being able getting visas or travel permits. Anyway, the vulgarised german geopolitical literature about Russia is marked by naivety and lacks the critical viewpoint many US and UK writers (and some Russian dividends) have. This episode cites Krone-Schmalz, one of the few prominent german "Russia experts" well known by the general public. If the Anstalt was an politically unbiased satire show, they would have made a similar "blackboard" showing the spider web between prominent left party figures and their journalistic accomplices with leading eastern stakeholders of Russia and its satellite nations. I'm still waiting for such an episode...
The two “makers” of the Anstalt ( Wagner and Uthoff ) are not Pro Putin ; what they let us know is what’s going wrong ( western hypocrisy, lies, press not really objective, that’s why I always read various news outlets to make my own view ) in our western hemisphere ! Putinversteher = Putin- understander . I’m Swiss and I agree with you that Germany produce the best satire !! In the public funded TV channels ! We are also have the same understanding that Volker Pisper is the best ever satirist, followed closely by the ANSTALT !!! I’m not politically a leftist, but I love these 3 guys because they tell us what’s really going on behind the scenes
Okay, let me make a somewhat different suggestion for a reaction although you might already know it. "Henning Wehn Nails it on Brexit on Question Time". Henning is a german comedian living in London since 2002. It's really worthwhile checking it out mate!
To be quite honest...it made me sad. I german. It took your video reaction, to shatter my last hope of independent life here. I already knew that Germany was slowly decaing to something like an outsourced post for 'murica but...the press? Sure some of the known presses like "BILD" or tv-channels like "RTL" are known for being at the lower level of actual worthy content. But that...that the media is so close to the lobbys? damn. That politics are nothing more than a Joke, wichs pointe was choosen 3 months ago by lobby...nothing new to me. That authors were banned or "indexed" for uncover that, also known...but that made me sad. (the contend of the show, not yours, or the show itself)
Here at (5:00 min), however, the context must be taken into account. This broadcast was after the official start of the war in 2014, but before the current phase, in which Russia has actively begun to attack the Ukrainian core area (2022). In one of the more recent episodes (the one from 08.03.2022), Max Uthoff and Klaus von Wagner revisited the matter and then recapitulated in detail their misjudgement at the time. That is also something you don't see very often: Presenters who admit mistakes on camera and reopen an old case to take a new look at the same facts. And (13:00 min) I always find it surprising when German cabaret artists in English-speaking countries are accused of courage because they name who did what and where. That is not illegal here in Germany and is not (legally) prosecuted. The reason why this episode is listed as the "forbidden episode" was because a few of the ZEIT journalists, whose names were revealed there, had subsequently sought an injunction against DIE ANSTALT. ...which they promptly lost because the facts stated had been factually true and this had led to a shitstorm against DIE ZEIT (private newspaper) because they had tried to silence the satire. Political cabaret in Germany has great freedoms and DIE ANSTALT is part of the state network, so someone like Rupert Murdock (who effectively owns all newspapers and news programmes privately in the UK) could not put pressure on them. They are independent and therefore only subject to the duty of truth.
They call out all the time any gouvernment etc. who did something wrong. No Company or party habe any influence on the Anstalt. Same gor Böhmermann and his show.
Unfortunately that changed. Its always easy to be brave when there is no repercussion, but with the stakes high like today they all of the sudden arent publishing anything that could harm the western narrative.
@@namewithoutmeaning1096 They have been caling out a lot since beginging of the war, but they also know, that it is hard to get information now, which is not biased.
@@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233 In a society it is important to show solidarity. If peoplr decide not to vaccinate, they have to live with some restrictions. We have to protect the weakest and older people, simple as that. But this is another topic. And we do not have to fight against each other about this here. have a good day
@@Metalfreakch I don't want to fight and I am of the same oppinion as you concerning restrictions. All I said was I disliked the way media condescended on people who decided within good reason not to vaccinate. It felt similiar to fat- or intelligence-shaming ( heute show is a good example ) For context I am the prime example that the restriction worked. I am not vaccinated, I commuted through the whole pandemic with public transportation, because I could not work from home. I wore my mask and on my daily test I never tested positive. On the other hand, it could have been the Aquile Cotton Mask I bought in the beginning of the pandemic and carried with me until the end. The Emperor Protects !!!
Uthoff just knows how to dish out. but he has earned the right to do that because he is always willing to ridicule himself. oh, and the sign (transpi) in the back is worth noting. it says "EU solidaricly" but the way the syllables are divided it reads as "EU solidly arian". solidarisch=solidaric(ly); solid=solid; arisch=arian. the "intern" made it and got it wrong. or... well... right in his opinion. oh, and "the board" where Wagner explains stuff has become a real trope of the show. in later episodes they make fun of Wagner's addiction of using a board like this (or with magnetic elements) to explain stuff. I always enjoy when that happens.
Just one thing. I noticed in the translation they put "Gutmensch" as "freeloader". Gutmensch doesn't mean freeloader, it is more like a SJW in meaning. Someone who wants to force the "goodness" he believes in on everyone else.
Media Double Standard is very well made, Mert. It's not only the media on the leash of politics, but the same the politics on the leash of corporations and the high finance. It would be very interesting, if YOU, Mert, could say us, 1. how is the situation in this regard in the UK, and 2. which Satire Shows can you recommend US in your country?
what was cut out was the explanation as a example of one of those journalists working on a proposal in one of those organizations and then writing positively in the newspaper about it... that's the part that caused the trouble if i remember right.
There is a great satire from Markus Barwasser (Pelzig) about the connections of Goldman Sachs. Don’t know if this is available with English translation but if you find a way to see this please do so. You‘ll like it. Barwasser alias Pelzig is one more person i adore. My recommendation.
Honestly, my mindframe didn't change about it. My opinion from the start is that both sides have the storys they tell, but the truth lies between them all. Two sides of a coin. Everyone has a point somewhere. The thing is we will never figure out whats behind everything, not from NATOs perspective, not from Russias either. Maybe we can guess, maybe we will be right at some points, but the truth will be kept a secret. And History will be written by the winner in the end.
Of course, they had to change their stance; the public broadcasting system is not independent here in Germany. We are at war, and in such circumstances, everyone has to participate in propaganda, especially when they are not independent. The same applies to our so-called "Verfassungsschutzt" (constitutional protection agency); it is equally not independent... not to mention the police. Most people here still haven't grasped the kind of system they truly live in.
I really didn’t change my opinion in this case. For a very long time I said that Putin is inhumane and a murderer, visible because of the wars, the deaths he caused before 2014. Back then it obviously wasn’t convenient for our western societies to argue this way, because of oil and gas. But nevertheless, that doesn’t change my view on western wars and politics as inhumane and murderous as well. The arguments in public, in our media, nowadays always seem to be black and white, right or wrong to the extreme. I still think one has to doubt every news, opinion, anyone in power, even if it’s not convenient for oneself.
right, it was visible since the war in Chechnya. he bombarded school children back then, everybody knew it. and i am still i big critic of the USA, but many people think that the crimes of the US make up for the crimes of Russia. like kindergarten.
So there's a lot missing at the end of the video, which is explained in more detail. something was cut out. the whole episode is worth watching! I can also recommend the episode "Die Anstalt" about the NSU process. have a nice day!
The thing is, that the war is of course wrong, when you start a war, you are the bad guy, so Russia is in the wrong here, but consciously provoking another to start a war because he has no other option is almost as bad, so although Russia is the bad guy, the NATO isn't the good guy.
What do you mean with no other option? When I was in Russia a few years ago the radio plays back to the ussr by the Beatles all day. How would Poland feel if Erika playing on German radio frequently. Russia' wasn't forced to use violence. Russia has land and ressources to build an attractive country to live in and to trade with. But Putin and his "friends" chose to go the facist way. These countries got scared from Russia into NATO and I have no empathy for the bully Russia anymore
Imagine: All the crazy shit so that some rich man AND woman can have more fun and power. And the folk laugh instead of stop the bullshit. So much written and spoken nothing changed. And just two tools to get this situation: no education and giving the people hope. I regret the moment pandora‘s box was opened second time and hope was released. Nothing is more destructive.
The writing on the wall: Solidarisch = solidarish (I know this doesn't exist in English, it's the adjective to solidarity). Solid arisch = solid arian (like in the Arian race of the Nazis). 😂😂😂
Im german and was Part of the left party bevor the invasion. You need to judge actions and at that time I agreed that nato had been more threatening than Russia. Especially as I thought the Russian war machine was crap. Since the ukrain invasion my view on Russia changed totally! Now they did what I never thought off and so I’m supporting ukrain with money donations!
In the end it hits the residents of the ukraine the most. the people that want to live without war again. But with every atrocity on both sides be it by its soldiers or by the decisions of their leaders the war will set and cost more irreversible damage.
I honestly cannot see any point in what The Anstalt claims here. Nato indeed grew due to voluntary joining of sovereign countries. That is NOT an aggressive act. And it is not against any international agreements. To annex part of a foreign country on the other hand IS aggression and a criminal act. That’s not even a question. And let’s not forget that Russia annexed Crimea already in 2014 when this association agreement between the Ukraine and the EU did not exist.
I feel like 2014, when Crimea was annexed, the only news we got in Germany was the fact that russian undercover-soldiers were seen there following the demonstration on the Maidan and their lady president being relived of her duty. All the specifics like the votes and the creation of a russian-run state in a state were barely mentioned. Or maybe that was the fault of me being in Afghanistan and having very limited means of accessing information about world politics. Either way, I personally just started to really care and inform myself when the second invasion followed. I know that there were talks about Russia having a non-aggression pact with NATO, thus officially ending the Cold War and Putin being a very pro-western politician for the years before and a few after becoming president. But then something changed and he became a second Stalin. It's speculated that the medication he had to take for his illness caused severe paranoia, detatchment from reality and imagining things that aren't real sending him into a spiral of mental destabilisation. I'm not completely convinced all of that is true, but if you can't trust the media and Russian RUclipsrs living/having lived through Putin's change from open and friendly towards the west and even having a permanent seat in the UN security council to him essentially banning talking about LGBT+, using the russian Media Observation Agency "Roskomnadsor" as his propaganda tool and the police as his tool to opress and arrest dissidents, while repurposing the FSB, the Russian Intelligence Agency as his own secret police. So my opinion was always the same, violently invading another country is bad. No matter for what reason. I always hated Putin way before the Russo-Ukrainian Conflict, because of his views and actions against LGBT+, the fact he was a KGB Spy in East Germany, is poisoning his opponents and having every demo, no matter if pro- or anti-putin, getting quite literally and brutally beaten down.
Yes, starting a war cant be justified. Even if the west did things wrong. All those countrys wanted to join EU and Nato themselfes and werent forced in it. Putin himself wanted to join it. But didnt wanted to do it like everybody else, he wanted special treatment. When i was younger and my father told me about the situation with the LGBTQ+ situation in russia i was shocked that something like that can happen in a "free country", of course i did not fully understand yet how our world functions. But today i do. The media and other things arent perfect here, but at least something like this show can be produced. We have the choice wich media we consume and the possibility to find different opinions. People can speak thier minds and live how they want to. And that is maybe one reason why people in these eastern countrys wanted to get nearer to the west.
@@AllesssKlar Exactly.. I'm still of the opinion that a "World Government" would be the best thing humanity could ever do to stop this entire East-West-Conflict. Eversince the war started I started watching a lot of russian RUclipsrs who fled their country, like NFKRZ or Niki Proshin and believe to have gotten a pretty good insight (even if only a tiny snapshot) into russian internal affairs and according to them, between the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Putin becoming an autocratic dictator there only were two or three years of the Russian Federation being a free country. Someone even said that the russian people have the demand for a, for the sake of neutrality let's just call it, strong leader engrained into their culture, which luckily changes with the new generation of internet-native Russians who aren't dependant on the state television stations and know how to get unbiased information. They've got the same problem as we have with the CDU/CSU - a large population of stubborn, old and indoctrinated old people who refuse to let the youth mold the world they will have to live in when those ancient farts who f-ed up the world have long turned to dust. The problem is, before Zelenskij, Putin was kind of right, the Ukrainian government was a corrupt and autocratic one and the "Azov-Batallion" really was a bunch of openly right wing neo-nazis untill they were urged to stop using the symbols and songs openly. But every time you say that, even slightly try to differentiate, you are considered to either be against Ukraine or for Putin - when the truth is, that the war and even annexing Crimea was plain wrong. Just as wrong as acting like Ukraine is/was paradise in earth where everyone is/was an angel and they are/were the prime example for a perfect democracy. Everyone only looking into their history for a few minutes can see how they never were the saints everyone makes them out to be, but you can't say that because you just cannot say bad things about a country that has been wrongfully attacked and is fighting for their existance. The thing is, sooner or later the war will be over, the restoration will be finished and then they will have to deal with all of their problems they had before the war - they won't suddenly become the perfect example of democracy; I'm even afraid that the victory over a country like Russia, that has been considered a world power, might even spark a new wave of nationalism. Similar thing out if different reasons with Russia. As Germans we know out if experience how dangerous a humiliated world power can be and what can come from it. 😵 My point being: I don't know when or why that started, but people somehow managed to unlearn differentiating. We urgently need to re-learn it or "our" blue cravats might one day become the new "brown shirts". They already managed to infiltrate the EU parliament, the very thing they swore to be an enemy of. 🤯
They never changed their opinion as i understand it. To my understanding their point was never whataboutism to justify russian (ptin) actions, but always to show the single sideness of main parts of the german media. Then they were used as an example to frame justifying russias actions. Maybe they underestimated how easily this could take out of context and be used and yes i can understand if some people say they are media experts they could/should have known it and present it in a way to avoid this possibility, which they later on did. And this is what i think is were people who have fallen for the first reframing think they changed their position and i would still argue no they didn't.
Sidenote: “you have to believe” - the German version of this („Sie müssen dran glauben“) has a secondary meaning. It also means you have to die.
It means "Get it in the neck" or "cop it".
Acknowledging that the west made mistakes in the handling of Ukraine is not justifying the Russian invasion. History is nuanced and it is important to question all actions by the large powers.
Very well said.
After the start of the russian attack they somehow critized trhemselves and corrected their point of view. ruclips.net/video/m2c_zX4FPI8/видео.html
Furthermore, ignoring the mistakes (small and big) made by the West and also by Ukraine provides the stuff for propaganda on all sides.
It creates a bizzare situation in which criticism is simply not welcome.
@@rudolfgernd8760 Indeed, honestly going over these things takes away opportunities for misinformation
"mistakes"
Unfortunately there are about 5 min. of explanation of the connections missing. They explain that the journalists in part wrote speeches for politicians - and later wrote the articles in their respective newspapers about them. Max Uthoff asks: Doesn't this constitute a conflict of interest? Claus von Wagner's answer: There's only a conflict of interest when the interests ARE conflicting.
Thank you for pointing it out. It is very important. 🙏
so its still cut out? why?
is this bit of the video available somewhere?
der spiegel says that the journalists suing were unsuccesfull
@@nutzeeer yeah, of course. But without English subtitles...
ruclips.net/video/Uelj8Hjf_0c/видео.html
Keep in mind that this is only 10 minutes of the full 49 minutes episode. For the Anstalt I’d always suggest watching the full episode: usually all the parts are connected. Also I already saw channels of neonazis showing only the US-critical part but cutting away the 5 minutes following that - the parts which show German responsibility for the cruelty (“we Germans were first”).
This. It‘s important to see the whole picture and to be careful about what you spread yourself on a channel.
kein inch weiter als bis zur ehmaligen grenze grenze zwischen brd und ddr wird sich die nato ausbreiten wenn man diesen fakt schreibt wird man als lügner und spinner hingestellt. keine nato soldaten dürfen in dem gebiet der ehmaligen ddr stationiert werden nur bundeswehr. das waren die versprechen an die russen die damit der wiedervereinigung zustimmten. hab ich ihren beitrag jetzt falsch verstanden? wer die usa machenschaften anprangert ist neonazi?
@@Takemysenf Especially as some of the stuff is from years ago and often points seen critical turned out to be true.
For me the most devastating joke is the double entendre in the scenery - Europa Solid-arisch. For those who don't speak German: "solidarisch" - solidaritous; "solid arisch" - "solidly Aryan".
Whoever came up with that deserves a serious bonus 🤣
And the camera just so happens to pan out for the channel's logo and the bottom part of the banner to be next to each other.
Unintentional? Maybe... ;)
My headcannon is its Nico Semmsrott, pretty Sure He at least presented it.
Quick sidenote: on Timecode 11:28 you can see the poster on the top. There is a german twist on that Poster. The translation can be: "Europe solidaric" or "Europe solid aryan"
„Die Anstalt“ is a hard-hitting gem every time. One that rarely makes me laugh but mostly it saddens me because of how well they show our dark sides
Since Covid they're are pretty dumbed down.
Their "Tafelnummer" (the part when they reveal their findings on the board they rolled in) is a highlight everytime and never disappoints. If I remember correctly they had at least two other of these in other episodes which lead to lawsuits. In court they always won. 😎
Another good reaction video! Always a joy to see your honesty and wonder.
Your light scottish accent is very easy to understand and easy on the ears for a German. I would love to see you do more formats, maybe an interview or talk with a German!
You are not from germany, right? I'm living here and Merts accent is for me sometimes very difficult to understand, although it sounds funny.
Ask an Yankee or a Brit, who has learned german and comes the first time to East Bavaria or Saxony if he understands something... ;)
There are various english dialects that are not easy to understand for foreigners, for instance of the US Middlewest or Cockney in London or the Liverpool dialect...
@@TessaractAlemania-hd7tvI´m german (from the western part) and I can confirm: His scottish accent is easy to understand for me. At least much better as the accent from anyone of London. BTW.: At first glance I aussumed his accent to be dutch...
I found Mert's harsh accent quite difficult to understand at first, but after getting used to it I found that I understand it better than some other English accents.
Can someone maybe tell me where the u - like in German - is pronounced like a u? So not stuff like /stʌf/, but like stoof, but with a short vowel.
@@Smaragdschloss For example in "put". Question answered?
That's the censored version of the episode. They were going into detail on some of those connections in the original.
What i really like about "Die Anstalt" is the nuance in the backgrounds. above the mainscreen on the set there is a transparent which got uncovered during an earlier act. On it are the words "Europa solidarisch" ("solidaric Europe"), but because of space confinement it's written "Europa solid- arisch". The proper syllibification for solidarisch in german would be "so-li-da-risch". But we also know the words "solid" and (born and used by the nazis) "Arisch" which was used to describe "a race of ethnicity to be born german, raised by germans with german ancestors". Which is a pun intentional unintended or unintentional intended... well it was inteded in the setting of the act.
I must say watching you reacting to this and your input on it made me appreciate it a lot more that we have a media landscape like that.
Shows like Die Anstalt are the reason i gladly pay GEZ fees for the national TV service. They aren't perfect all the time but they put their finger on a lot of sore spots that should get a lot more attention. I can't quite agree with their take on NATO/Russia here but yeah, it's not as onesided as a lot of other voices make it out to be.
Well, Putin showed them he is indeed of an imperialistic Russian mindset…so they were wrong in their take, same as a lot of German politicians along with them.
Don‘t know if they would have appreciated the company, tbh…but owning up to bad takes as they said, takes balls.
Good for them!
Note that they made a later episode where they discussed their own role in ignoring Putins imperialistic plans.
@@ArneBab do you have a link... I haven't had a TV in ages and it seems I missed out..
Gladly paying the GEZ? Because of one show you like?
Well I guess you´re a true german. You like paying.
@@TheCaptainCrack Not only ARD and ZDF are supported via GEz, Also 3Sat and Arte and Arte is a very big driver in the music scene so. i dunno. you like to enjoy complaining, like any true german ;)
An important thing to keep in mind when watching this is that the episode came out long before Russia's attack on Ukraine.
This show was in 2014, if we would have tried some how to understand the narrative of Russia what does not mean excepting. I‘m sure more Ukrainians would be still alive, Russians as well, Cities not destroyed because of doing politics instead of war. Because… an Narrative is just an ego point of view ours as well. If you compare two ego narratives the part which comes almost together is the piece which is next to reality.
Well said.
Danke Mert for reminding me of these classics. I left Germany a long time ago and got out of touch with this country, as there are many things I hate about it and things that simply dont work, BUT thanks to you, i got some of the appreciation for some of the good parts of Germany, its political satire. Pispach and The Antstalt are indeed top notch, and that running on the 2nd State channel is even more hillarious. Cant wait for your next video, sub so earned!
they were basically made to apoligize and criticise their own work for this... or as other pointed out "they were reflecing on it" :D
In every war it's a fight between the evil and the evil. But most of the suffering is experienced by uninvolved.
As a german I have to say I love your content. You are doing well with your content. Keep going.
With regard to the last image: thats why I for one am happy, that we have a public broadcast organisations (ARD, ZDF) that are independently financed by a fee on every houshold and company in germany. They certainly are not completly unbiased, but they are although not on the pupetstring of either the goverment or any more or less covert private interest.
The 1st 50 seconds is just a normal german starter to ease into the conversation.
Cool upload though, havent seen this episode myself.
Daaamn! Das ist echt mal ein heftiges Video! 😯
Sollte echt jeder gesehen haben! Aber wundert mich kaum, dass es dafür Stress gab..
10:00 the German word for "run through" is "überflogen" literally "flew over"
I was a bit putindefender before he started the war. Not because I didnt know that his "democracy" is a farce or that he is incredibly dangerous because of his upbringing and career...
but because the western media glossed over some very critical things that he was able to speak about very eloquently...
But ever since the invasion, I can not defend that man, his politics or even his voters anymore.
Yes the usa did similar things and sometimes even worse stuff in the middle east...
And I never defended them! But this is on a whole new level... that war is directly correlated to the east-west conflict and negates everything he ever said...
it's not a whole new level. the us bombed defenseless countries that didn't do anything. russia attacks ukraine because the eastern border of russia is being nato-fied. here, ukraine, the defender, has full support of the west, unlike the middle eastern countries.
They explained in this show why they changed their position later...
I watched a few of your videos and I liked them ....but this one is absolutely brilliant... Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪 ❤ I subscribe to your channel right now
The hardes Facts about this „connections“ are still coming in this Act. But this Part was the reason, for the „Bann“ of this Episode. The last „Board Act“ was about 7 min long. I found only German versions on RUclips. If some one found a version with subtitles, please send the link.
this episode isnt banned anymore for years now! it was only for a short time, but since they used facts and no lies it got "unbanned" after a view month.
Im currently working on a Anstalt-Video with eng subs
Soon you will meet the best Anstalt-Character
Oh boy plz tell he‘ll finally be able to meet Neffton!
@@MarmaldeBunny - Ja ... bald ist es soweit - alles Übersetzt und im Video. Muss nur noch formatieren und die letzten Kinderkrankheiten korrigieren
@@hermannmakuta3311 Ich bin auch gespannt, manchmal wenn ich dann doch die Übersetzung mitlese, denke ich mir .. kein Wunder, dass die Reaktionäre das nicht verstehen.
@@hermannmakuta3311 WOHOOOO geil hoffe er reagiert auch drauf! Neffton ist beste… und natürlich der Andi lol 🤣
@@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233 - Einiges zu Übersetzen war auch nicht nicht leicht ... wie zur Hölle soll ich "für lau" übersetzen ... mein Vater mit 0 englisch Kenntnissen "little money" ?
Das war genial
3:10 the "idiot" too is a masterpiece from Dostoevsky! I watched a film about this book.
I realy enjoy reacting-videos from people from foreign countries. This isnt a bad episode, its well made. The problem is that you have to know that this satire is 100% leftside. So they only have left talkingpoints. They started with kind of subliminally messages, but the more you look the more this is a commercial for leftwing parties. Many people from here in Germany i know have stopped watching this because it's unbearable.
Society-critical cabaret on television is less and less tolerated by those in charge. Demanding programs are becoming fewer and fewer to make room for programs that mean brain death for viewers. Sorry for my bad English with greetings from Germany!
Please look at the big traditional annual German political cabaret.
Bavaria: "Nockherberg" and
Achen Carnival: "Orden wieder den tierischen Ernst"
Important German politicians are always in the audience.
Both can be found on youtube
The claims that this was banned is pure fishing for views. What happened was that private people sometimes file civil court cases against this show. In the inital proceedings the judge has to assume that the claimant might win (unless it is very obvious a fraud case) and depending on the severity of the claim in question can preminilary rule that the showrunners are not allowed to repeat or distribute the potential offending claim.
Thus ZDF (the entity responsible for production and distribution in this case) takes the accsess down until the case is done (since so far they never lost given that free speech and freedom of the arts are both constitutional rights in Germany). This has no influence on thrid parties shareing their recordings at all.
It's similar to the urban myth that owning "Mein Kampf" was ever illegal in Germany. What was not allowed was printing it. And that was a copyright issue (the owner of the copyright did not allow for new Germany versions to be printed). By now the Copyright expired and i.e. Historians brought out commented versions to showcase what a stupid mess it actually is.
I usually am of the same opinion as “Die Anstalt”, but somehow I already had a feeling back in 2014 that Russia invading Crimea was much worse than it was treated. Wish I was wrong.
Apart from that I am a huge fan of this show, because you get so much information presented in an entertaining way. Usually they are right about their topics. This episode shows some of their few mistakes.
And why was it bad or worse? According to US surveys from pre annexation, the majority of Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, rather than Ukraine. And Russia made sure, that they dont burn Russians alive like the Ukrainian militants did in the Odessa massacre, so it was actually a good thing that saved lives. Of course their motiviation was the military base in Sevastopol, I am not denying that, but it had the positive side effect of avoiding any massacres such as the one in Odessa.
Well but they didnt done a mistake at all, they didnt really said it is russian right to just take crimea. They just claimed that in other cases which are similiar the Nato or EU is completly fine since it is to their favor and not against em(and even lie about votings that never happend, like Obama did! and hes a good one , isnt he?). But when russia does the same it is suddenly a war crime, a crime against humanity(and at least they let the people vote since they know they will vote for them). That is mostly their story, and it is completly right.
The EU in 1996 already know what would happen if the nationalists western part of Ukraine ( not my words, but EU words ) will bully the eastern russian part it may end up in a civil war. That is an assessment from the EU from 1996! They back than had the knowledge that eastern Ukraine is way more related to Russia than the west and still claime, that the voting on Crimea was illegal or staged, but i think that is a lie so we have a reason to call out the new Hitler, and Hitler we all know, we cant debate with, we can only kill! That is was happens now, only killing, killing and even more killing funded with your and my tax-money!
The problem is like over 90% of the people doesnt even know about this assessment done by the EU in 1996. But in my eyes it shows perfectly how the western world is absolutly knowing what happened there and still denie it to give us just their "right" view, the view they want us to see but nothing less and nothing more. Russia does alot of propaganda too, but they will never make such briliant propaganda than the western world does. Iam still shocked if i read commentary under news about Ukraine war, how pathetic people defend lies from both sides, even most of the lies spreaded, so easy to detect, you need just seconds with google, SECONDS! But people dont seem to have seconds to prove news bullshit or non bullshit.
@@bjornborg4849 War currently 400,000 dead on both sides
How many were burned by idiots (if that's true, smells like Russian propaganda)
crimea annexed to save "russians" how many russians died from the war now?
@@bjornborg4849 How many Russians would have been burned in Ukraine if Russia hadn't invaded Crimea?
Probably close to none. You make it sound like Ukrainian militants made a habit of burning people at the stake - instead, the clashes between two violent militant groups set a building on fire. Both sides in that clash are to blame. It was very bad. Okay.
There is also a difference between an opinion poll (which may have errors and uncertainties) and an election at gunpoint (which is certainly not allowed to have "errors").
This episode had issues. It wasn't completely bad, though.
@@Enyavar1ok "burned" probably not many, but killed and oppressed, many many more. The issue is that before the 2014 regime change previous Administrations mostly sought to have compromise between a pro Russian (most popular in eastern Ukraine) and a pro European stance (most popular in western Ukraine, e.g. in Lviv). This includes "evil supposedly pro Russian president yanukovich" who was back and forth between EU and Russia and eventually did the economic association with Russia instead of EU cause Russia offered like 20x as much money, so he actually acted in his country's interested by taking the better offer. However after the violent unconstitutional "regime change" that was clearly pro western, some did not agree with it and feared a one sided policy. And they weren't wrong... I can tell you one thing. As often as the Ukrainians shell civilian districts of Donezk city (almost daily since 2014) and even used illegal personell mines there to kill as many "pro Russian civilians" as possible, and all the statements from Ukrainian officials that all who live under Russian rule are no longer Ukrainians and should be killed... With those actions and statements against their own people that they claim they want to liberate... I highly doubt that there would not have been a lot more deaths anyway.
Outrageous part here (14:15): the show is cut short just before they criticize the BILD for forcing their journalists to always side with transatlantics, and former Kai Diekmann, former chief editor of the BILD who moved out after being accused of sexual harassment, who was working as chairman of the atlantic bridge.
He wasnt fully in line with the ideological bias, and thats why he was kicked out imho. At least Bild got more "gleichgeschaltet" after he left
@@bjornborg4849 Or he harassed one woman too much.
@@ArneBab as far I know he had a consentual affair with her, it was only causing outcry cause "sex with someone from workplace" and "age difference", but I hear for the first time harassment or the like. It was consensual afaik
Did you realize the banner with "solid-
arisch"
on it 😂😂
Important to explain that they spit the german word for solidarity purposely in a way that it forms the two words "solid aryan" to give it an ambiguous meaning.
if u dont speak german u wont understand it by just reading the word
@@wokeaf1337 right, but I wanted the reader to wonder and make some speculation on it's own.
Guess it works.
It was not really banned (like censored or something), two journalists felt attacked by the episode and tried to impede that ZDF makes the episode publicly available.
Which is in fact an attempt at censoring.
There's missing parts.
@@GilbMLRS what?
No it is not, it is an legal dispute and deciding between different interests (protection for the journalist against false claims and right of a TV station to present things that are in public interest).
Censorship is not because someone has a legal objection, but censorship is when a government body or something like that reviews media products to prevent unwanted content from being broadcasted or published.
And that is indeed my problem with the title, because "banning" implies that there is an authority in Germany that can prevent unpopular things to be made public. In Germany only if you have violated a law your newsarticle or show or anything can become restricted (for example if you violate "youth protection laws" your song will be restricted and put on the index).
ZDF is mainly a TV channel. cant take back what has been seem
@@ReuterL Yeah that is why ZDF was ordered by the court as my understanding goes to take down the full episode on their mediathek and ZDF was not allowed to air the episode again - that is the reason why you now only find this videos with a cut ending and a blured spot on the whiteboard under which I think the logo of "Die Zeit" would have been shown ... but that is only my understanding after a short internet research. I couldn't find the actual case being fully or partially published on juristic websites.
Well.. they criticize how the media reported that conflict but that changed nothing how russia behaved pre war.. and russian definitely built that separatism in east ukraine.. its proven and didn't work in several other oblast..
I feel a bit embarrassed when I see this now, because at that stage I thought the same as these two. But since 24022022 everybody should admit that Russia is a brutal aggressor, bombing innocent people of an independent country. This is not excusable.
hmm as well as head of NATO the USA.
Thanks for reborn these important contents and commenting the heart of it.
"the bravery of this show" - this is German public TV satire. Usually the organization has their back, as long as they make sure they get the facts right.
The full 49 minutes episode ends with a song by Konstantin Wecker written for his Friend Willy who got murdered by a Neonazi, a song against group-think and against war and for standing up to what you believe in.
There was another great duo: Christoph Sieber and Tobias Mann. Their show "Mann, Sieber!" alternated with "Die Anstalt". They were equally great, but their show got cancelled in 2020.
There is was less and less political satire/cabaret on German TV over the last couple of years. It gets pushed out of the way in favour of the less political comedy and surely, because it addresses things critcally. Thinking back how much political satire was still on TV 20, 30, 40 years ago, this is a sad development. But, of course, many of the old ones died or retired and there to few young political cabaret artist in comparision with comedy.
Sad, really sad, but from the politicians point of view definitely something they are happy about.
It's not just the newspapers. These are also represented on German private radio and TV.
While the broadcasters financed by broadcasting fees often presented themselves as critical of the government.
"..often presented themselves as critical of the government."
Yes, I like that joke, totally my humor.
Critical of the government... as in, the government isnt communist enough, yet? (for their taste)
Great episode.
Hi Mert, thanks for putting up this video. I have not seen it before, but I am shocked of what I have seen there. Public funded media by the way (I have to pay for this). I grew up with the message, never again. For me, this also means to stop (Genocide) at least on main land Europe. Therefore I can not understand this non-funny comedy. Furthermore, both comedians support left and right wing populism. And adding Gabriele Krone-Schmalz, she is a known Putin-Lover, is a disgrace. This is comedy in (comparing it with Brexit) like comedy for Farage. It also suggests some kind of consolidation of media powers, but to be honest 90% of experts agree that Russia is the villain and has to loose.
This episode is from 2014. A lot has changed since then.
U need to see Georg Schramm!! The goat of german satire!
The first victim of every war is the truth, on both sides.
That's what I keep in mind reading/watching the news.
Second thing to remember is the question of who benefits from an incident. Often you can shorten that if you ask yourself "Does the US benefits from incident xy?" If the answer is "yes"... well...
That's great. I think most people do not read the news from both sides and never ask "who benefits" since their one sided news stories already give them the clue - this side is good, this side is bad. I can highly recommend to read both sides, but also to read third parties - what do the Indians, the Arabs and the Brazilians report about a certain topic? Wion, Hindustan Times (Indian) and Al Jazeera (Arab) often have a third or middle point of view
this is 10 years old (!)
The history of German political cabaret is truly remarkable. It is precisely NOT comedy, but a journalistic form of presentation and as such is subject to the same criteria as all others to the so-called "press code", especially, of course, when it runs on publicly financed radio (as was the case with this program by "Die Anstalt"). Above all, this means that all the factual claims mentioned are based on verifiable facts. To ensure this, political cabaret in public broadcasting has its own editorial departments.
In recent years, this public (and publicly financed) broadcasting has been increasingly defamed as "state broadcasting". From whom may one think ...
The last Number is cut… there was more
Unimaginable that Putin himself wanted to join Nato at one point in time. But of course not in the way every other country had to. He wanted special treatment. Now he has it, but not in the good way.
Hey Friends this Version of Anstalt was from 2014!!!! 2014 as the war begann!
Yeah, of the Nazi regime against the innocent peopel of Donbass.
My view definitely changed with the start of the Ukraine war. I think I had the same sort of naivety that many of us had with regards to Russia. I think it has something to do with how much our attitudes have changed, and with the prosperity gained since having lasting peace in Europe. I think to us, violent imperialism just seems very primitive and anachronistic, and so as someone not very deeply familiar withe the Russian psyche, it just didn't make sense for a country we still considered culturally close to us to act so far differently from how we would act. At least that's how I make sense of why I didn't really expect this.
It wasn't banned....it was just normal episode like any other...It's tilled this way just to create attention or maybe even for propaganda.
By the way.......anstalt also has an episode with self critisism, where they realised that west's hypocracy doesn't automatically mean Russia is on the good side.
The myth that the Episode was banned, Came from the fact That it was out for one week due to a Copyright Dispute. After That was clarified, it was completely back in the Media Library
@@robpirat8337 Do you have a source for the reason being a "copyright dispute"?
@@robpirat8337 that was another episode. in this case 2 journalists filed a temporary restraining order.
@@robpirat8337 no links in youtube comments dude. ;) but i know, i spoke about back then.
and they never said for their own that russia is any good. And this episode wanst banned, but not allowed to show for couple of month, length of the court about it... So it basicly was banned for a couple of month.
I think the view on Russia is still completely valid. People lie before an during wars the most and the current view the media is conveying to the people throughout NATO member countries is Russia invaded Ukraine, this is unjustifiable, no one knows why they did it. However if NATO, a defensive alliance, gets involved in a war the framing is totally different and the main goal is to not criticize the US too much.
Pull your head out of your ass.The last time, the German media were not critical of the US was when Franz Josef Strauß was Defense Minister. 🤣
So happy he found that specific Piece.
i don´t know if it was my Post or that of another Viewer.
But this Piece of Information is very important.
Sadly, i did not found any better Piece of that Episode with Subtitles.
I linked in my Comment the complete Episode, sadly it has no english subtitles.
And it is not back on the Air.
It is, to this day, stil banned.
what i rly like, for every episode tehy also upload a pdf with a "fact check" where they list all facts and sources
They actually apologised for their previous standpoint as shown in this clip.
Do I, a partly German and partly Scottish lad, like the fact, that this guy watches German sarcasm political shows? I absolutely do, especially for the Scottish accent 🎉
There is a lot of discussion among me and my friends, too. A lot of people ignore or do not now the two following facts:
- Russia had to verify and ratify _any_ extension of the Nato. And Russia did agree to all of the expansions in the past.
- Russia, Ukraine, the US and England signed a contract that _accepts_ Ukraine's independence *and* _grants_ Ukraines territorial integrity. In exchange, Ukraine gave away it's nuclear arsenal. At that time, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear weapon power in the world.
Following this contract, America and England would have been *obliged* to intervene at least when "Not-Russia" invaded East-Ukraine in 2014 (the invasion force did not wear any country insignia, so officially they weren't from Russia). Maybe to avoid further escalation, to this day, a direct intervention of US, British or Nato forces did not occur.
Furthermore, Russia exited most (all?) remaining contracts to limit weapon production. This is a gateway to another arms' race.
That they don´t care about. THey see the invasior as a savior.
inerestly the most imortant 1s blur3d out ;) 1n 7he Diagramm..
Greez to brave scottland:)
1:10, subtitles skipped "Gutmensch" (lit. "good human") which can be **very** roughly translated as SJW. Though I'd say a "Gutmensch" is more likely to actually try to make things better and not just want to feel morally superior by attempting to shame others on bs that isn't an actual issue.
a pity that it was only a so small part if that show
Back in the day I also thought that the separatists should be allowed to separate if they wanted to. And that Russia was not as bad as the media reported.
I still think that actual Ukrainian separatists should have their right to self-determination, but Russia has absolutely started a genocidal war of aggression and must be stopped, because the rest of Ukraine ALSO has the right to self-determination.
In hindsight, I'm not certain anymore how many people in the Donbas region actually wanted to separate and how many were Russian assets. Maybe the separatist movement was already done by Russian puppets and not by the majority of the people living there. I don't know. Same goes for the Krim.
Those "separatist" were always Russian puppets. All loyal Ukrainians who could leave, have left. Now the rest live in a mafia state-like purgatory, where Russia tells them, they are Russians, but their Russian passports don't grant them any of the rights. The men are instead sent to be slaughtered on the front. No matter how much Russians swear, these territories are part of Russia, they will be dropped at the first smell of defeat. Cherson is a prime example. Once that bridge is gone and military supplies run low, no Russian will fight for Crimea either.
For some insight of what has happened in Crimea after Russia occupied it, you could read the PDF "The human rights situation in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea during the seven years of occupation" by the NGO "Центр прав людини". I would give you a link, but YT doesn't like that.
A small summary of the violations from another source (US. Department of State)
"Significant human rights issues included: forced disappearances; torture and cases of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by Russia or Russia-led “authorities,” including punitive psychiatric incarceration; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions and transfer of prisoners to Russia".
For me the 24th February taught me that the Ukraine annexation of 2014 actually is not difficult to evaluate and does not need to be viewed from different perspectives.
I always find it important to remember that being a citizen of Russia does not mean for one second that you endorse this war.
A main problem of politics and the media is addressed here: double standards. The other side is not allowed to do what "we" do because it is "something totally different".
Not really, all of the points they made where false or not infull context.
The seperated parts of ukraine worked with russian troops and equipment, the referendum was oversighted by russia alone, the annexation of the krim was by force.
So there is a huge difference, sure we have to look at both sides, the iraq war is one of the best examples for that but here in this episodes their points where very badly made and aged terrible.
@@varlmorgaine3700 bullshit...
when did "we" invaded a country? and this was made in 2014. a time when we thought Putin was a rational man. now we know he isnt .
@@gonzo2495 And we Europeans can not accept it. But we totally accept the war crimes of the US/British/French governments. Or do you see any critizism about that in the mainstream media like FaZ, Zeit, SZ, Bild or the tv? Double standards.
@@gonzo2495 Also it is so delusional by most germans to think we can end the war by sending weapons there. Such an unaware and ill mindset.
About if my stance towards the Ukraine Conflict changed: A bit, yes. Putin invading Ukraine isn't justifiable in any way. However, I will say that when the Civil War was going on, in 2014 mainly, the media painted two pictures of the same actions depending on which side did them. I just don't think that NATO has any right to claim the moral high ground based on our actions in the middle east. If we condemn the actions of Russia we must admit our own wrong doings too.
I really appreciated the satire of the "Anstalt" and most of the jokes they make. However, in my opinion this episode is among their most evidently biased ones and the political view of the makers clearly leans towards the left (somewhere between the position of the german "SPD" party and "Die Linke"). This bias is not always very prominent and may sometimes be sublimeal (it depends on the subject treated). In this case, however, the stance of the "old left" towards Russia is very apparent. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that those _knowledgeable journalists_ who travelled routinely to the soviet union and later to the remains of that former "empire" of sorts would almost never openly criticise the regime and rather defend the position of the east, maybe because of love for the russian culture in general or for fear of no longer being able getting visas or travel permits. Anyway, the vulgarised german geopolitical literature about Russia is marked by naivety and lacks the critical viewpoint many US and UK writers (and some Russian dividends) have. This episode cites Krone-Schmalz, one of the few prominent german "Russia experts" well known by the general public. If the Anstalt was an politically unbiased satire show, they would have made a similar "blackboard" showing the spider web between prominent left party figures and their journalistic accomplices with leading eastern stakeholders of Russia and its satellite nations. I'm still waiting for such an episode...
Underrated comment! Bravo!
the same goes with Pispers. they all thought Putin was at least a rational leader and they were too focused on their bad usa-bad nato narrative.
The two “makers” of the Anstalt ( Wagner and Uthoff ) are not Pro Putin ; what they let us know is what’s going wrong ( western hypocrisy, lies, press not really objective, that’s why I always read various news outlets to make my own view ) in our western hemisphere !
Putinversteher = Putin- understander .
I’m Swiss and I agree with you that Germany produce the best satire !!
In the public funded TV channels !
We are also have the same understanding that Volker Pisper is the best ever satirist, followed closely by the ANSTALT !!!
I’m not politically a leftist, but I love these 3 guys because they tell us what’s really going on behind the scenes
Okay, let me make a somewhat different suggestion for a reaction although you might already know it. "Henning Wehn Nails it on Brexit on Question Time". Henning is a german comedian living in London since 2002. It's really worthwhile checking it out mate!
1:43 and thats why i love that man to bits. He is probably one of the best we have at the moment in this country.
To be quite honest...it made me sad. I german. It took your video reaction, to shatter my last hope of independent life here. I already knew that Germany was slowly decaing to something like an outsourced post for 'murica but...the press? Sure some of the known presses like "BILD" or tv-channels like "RTL" are known for being at the lower level of actual worthy content. But that...that the media is so close to the lobbys? damn. That politics are nothing more than a Joke, wichs pointe was choosen 3 months ago by lobby...nothing new to me. That authors were banned or "indexed" for uncover that, also known...but that made me sad. (the contend of the show, not yours, or the show itself)
Here at (5:00 min), however, the context must be taken into account. This broadcast was after the official start of the war in 2014, but before the current phase, in which Russia has actively begun to attack the Ukrainian core area (2022). In one of the more recent episodes (the one from 08.03.2022), Max Uthoff and Klaus von Wagner revisited the matter and then recapitulated in detail their misjudgement at the time.
That is also something you don't see very often: Presenters who admit mistakes on camera and reopen an old case to take a new look at the same facts.
And (13:00 min) I always find it surprising when German cabaret artists in English-speaking countries are accused of courage because they name who did what and where. That is not illegal here in Germany and is not (legally) prosecuted.
The reason why this episode is listed as the "forbidden episode" was because a few of the ZEIT journalists, whose names were revealed there, had subsequently sought an injunction against DIE ANSTALT. ...which they promptly lost because the facts stated had been factually true and this had led to a shitstorm against DIE ZEIT (private newspaper) because they had tried to silence the satire.
Political cabaret in Germany has great freedoms and DIE ANSTALT is part of the state network, so someone like Rupert Murdock (who effectively owns all newspapers and news programmes privately in the UK) could not put pressure on them. They are independent and therefore only subject to the duty of truth.
I dont know why, but I realy like the reaction style
They call out all the time any gouvernment etc. who did something wrong. No Company or party habe any influence on the Anstalt. Same gor Böhmermann and his show.
Unfortunately that changed. Its always easy to be brave when there is no repercussion, but with the stakes high like today they all of the sudden arent publishing anything that could harm the western narrative.
@@namewithoutmeaning1096 They have been caling out a lot since beginging of the war, but they also know, that it is hard to get information now, which is not biased.
What I really disliked was the vaccination narrative during the pandemic and the way all outlets were bashing on non-vaxxers.
@@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233 In a society it is important to show solidarity. If peoplr decide not to vaccinate, they have to live with some restrictions. We have to protect the weakest and older people, simple as that. But this is another topic. And we do not have to fight against each other about this here. have a good day
@@Metalfreakch I don't want to fight and I am of the same oppinion as you concerning restrictions. All I said was I disliked the way media condescended on people who decided within good reason not to vaccinate.
It felt similiar to fat- or intelligence-shaming ( heute show is a good example )
For context I am the prime example that the restriction worked. I am not vaccinated, I commuted through the whole pandemic with public transportation, because I could not work from home.
I wore my mask and on my daily test I never tested positive.
On the other hand, it could have been the Aquile Cotton Mask I bought in the beginning of the pandemic and carried with me until the end. The Emperor Protects !!!
There is absolutly no excuse for Russia declaring war on the Ukraine.
Uthoff just knows how to dish out. but he has earned the right to do that because he is always willing to ridicule himself.
oh, and the sign (transpi) in the back is worth noting. it says "EU solidaricly" but the way the syllables are divided it reads as "EU solidly arian". solidarisch=solidaric(ly); solid=solid; arisch=arian. the "intern" made it and got it wrong. or... well... right in his opinion.
oh, and "the board" where Wagner explains stuff has become a real trope of the show. in later episodes they make fun of Wagner's addiction of using a board like this (or with magnetic elements) to explain stuff. I always enjoy when that happens.
Just one thing. I noticed in the translation they put "Gutmensch" as "freeloader". Gutmensch doesn't mean freeloader, it is more like a SJW in meaning. Someone who wants to force the "goodness" he believes in on everyone else.
We Germans are funny by simply telling the truth
Media Double Standard is very well made, Mert. It's not only the media on the leash of politics, but the same the politics on the leash of corporations and the high finance.
It would be very interesting, if YOU, Mert, could say us, 1. how is the situation in this regard in the UK, and 2. which Satire Shows can you recommend US in your country?
what was cut out was the explanation as a example of one of those journalists working on a proposal in one of those organizations and then writing positively in the newspaper about it... that's the part that caused the trouble if i remember right.
There is a great satire from Markus Barwasser (Pelzig) about the connections of Goldman Sachs. Don’t know if this is available with English translation but if you find a way to see this please do so. You‘ll like it. Barwasser alias Pelzig is one more person i adore. My recommendation.
Honestly, my mindframe didn't change about it. My opinion from the start is that both sides have the storys they tell, but the truth lies between them all. Two sides of a coin. Everyone has a point somewhere. The thing is we will never figure out whats behind everything, not from NATOs perspective, not from Russias either. Maybe we can guess, maybe we will be right at some points, but the truth will be kept a secret. And History will be written by the winner in the end.
Of course, they had to change their stance; the public broadcasting system is not independent here in Germany. We are at war, and in such circumstances, everyone has to participate in propaganda, especially when they are not independent. The same applies to our so-called
"Verfassungsschutzt" (constitutional protection agency); it is equally not independent... not to mention the police. Most people here still haven't grasped the kind of system they truly live in.
Maybe for context: this episode is from April 2014
I really didn’t change my opinion in this case. For a very long time I said that Putin is inhumane and a murderer, visible because of the wars, the deaths he caused before 2014. Back then it obviously wasn’t convenient for our western societies to argue this way, because of oil and gas. But nevertheless, that doesn’t change my view on western wars and politics as inhumane and murderous as well. The arguments in public, in our media, nowadays always seem to be black and white, right or wrong to the extreme. I still think one has to doubt every news, opinion, anyone in power, even if it’s not convenient for oneself.
best summarised by Pispers "History of the US in the Middle East" .. or another episode of Die Anstalt with similiar content.
right, it was visible since the war in Chechnya. he bombarded school children back then, everybody knew it. and i am still i big critic of the USA, but many people think that the crimes of the US make up for the crimes of Russia. like kindergarten.
So there's a lot missing at the end of the video, which is explained in more detail. something was cut out. the whole episode is worth watching!
I can also recommend the episode "Die Anstalt" about the NSU process.
have a nice day!
i think he didnt finished and will continue on this, he did that before too
@@leroyjenkins2757 leeeeeeeeroooooy jieeeeenkins!
The thing is, that the war is of course wrong, when you start a war, you are the bad guy, so Russia is in the wrong here, but consciously provoking another to start a war because he has no other option is almost as bad, so although Russia is the bad guy, the NATO isn't the good guy.
What do you mean with no other option? When I was in Russia a few years ago the radio plays back to the ussr by the Beatles all day. How would Poland feel if Erika playing on German radio frequently. Russia' wasn't forced to use violence. Russia has land and ressources to build an attractive country to live in and to trade with. But Putin and his "friends" chose to go the facist way.
These countries got scared from Russia into NATO and I have no empathy for the bully Russia anymore
Aww, sadly the ending of that part has been cut out.
Imagine: All the crazy shit so that some rich man AND woman can have more fun and power. And the folk laugh instead of stop the bullshit. So much written and spoken nothing changed. And just two tools to get this situation: no education and giving the people hope. I regret the moment pandora‘s box was opened second time and hope was released. Nothing is more destructive.
The writing on the wall: Solidarisch = solidarish (I know this doesn't exist in English, it's the adjective to solidarity).
Solid arisch = solid arian (like in the Arian race of the Nazis).
😂😂😂
Im german and was Part of the left party bevor the invasion. You need to judge actions and at that time I agreed that nato had been more threatening than Russia. Especially as I thought the Russian war machine was crap. Since the ukrain invasion my view on Russia changed totally! Now they did what I never thought off and so I’m supporting ukrain with money donations!
Felt so too.
Also it was the moment when the left party destoyed itself.
In the end it hits the residents of the ukraine the most. the people that want to live without war again.
But with every atrocity on both sides be it by its soldiers or by the decisions of their leaders the war will set and cost more irreversible damage.
@@InternetChromer well invading is always a big no no and should change the point of view
Same here. Though I'm still a member of the Left. I want to get rid of the Wagenknecht faction.
@@johannageisel5390she'll get rid of you guys before you can even make a move. 😆
I honestly cannot see any point in what The Anstalt claims here.
Nato indeed grew due to voluntary joining of sovereign countries. That is NOT an aggressive act.
And it is not against any international agreements.
To annex part of a foreign country on the other hand IS aggression and a criminal act.
That’s not even a question.
And let’s not forget that Russia annexed Crimea already in 2014 when this association agreement between the Ukraine and the EU did not exist.
they dont have changed generally...but of course in some details...and also because of pressure to make it clear
I feel like 2014, when Crimea was annexed, the only news we got in Germany was the fact that russian undercover-soldiers were seen there following the demonstration on the Maidan and their lady president being relived of her duty. All the specifics like the votes and the creation of a russian-run state in a state were barely mentioned. Or maybe that was the fault of me being in Afghanistan and having very limited means of accessing information about world politics.
Either way, I personally just started to really care and inform myself when the second invasion followed.
I know that there were talks about Russia having a non-aggression pact with NATO, thus officially ending the Cold War and Putin being a very pro-western politician for the years before and a few after becoming president. But then something changed and he became a second Stalin. It's speculated that the medication he had to take for his illness caused severe paranoia, detatchment from reality and imagining things that aren't real sending him into a spiral of mental destabilisation. I'm not completely convinced all of that is true, but if you can't trust the media and Russian RUclipsrs living/having lived through Putin's change from open and friendly towards the west and even having a permanent seat in the UN security council to him essentially banning talking about LGBT+, using the russian Media Observation Agency "Roskomnadsor" as his propaganda tool and the police as his tool to opress and arrest dissidents, while repurposing the FSB, the Russian Intelligence Agency as his own secret police.
So my opinion was always the same, violently invading another country is bad. No matter for what reason.
I always hated Putin way before the Russo-Ukrainian Conflict, because of his views and actions against LGBT+, the fact he was a KGB Spy in East Germany, is poisoning his opponents and having every demo, no matter if pro- or anti-putin, getting quite literally and brutally beaten down.
Yes, starting a war cant be justified. Even if the west did things wrong. All those countrys wanted to join EU and Nato themselfes and werent forced in it. Putin himself wanted to join it. But didnt wanted to do it like everybody else, he wanted special treatment.
When i was younger and my father told me about the situation with the LGBTQ+ situation in russia i was shocked that something like that can happen in a "free country", of course i did not fully understand yet how our world functions. But today i do. The media and other things arent perfect here, but at least something like this show can be produced. We have the choice wich media we consume and the possibility to find different opinions. People can speak thier minds and live how they want to. And that is maybe one reason why people in these eastern countrys wanted to get nearer to the west.
@@AllesssKlar Exactly.. I'm still of the opinion that a "World Government" would be the best thing humanity could ever do to stop this entire East-West-Conflict. Eversince the war started I started watching a lot of russian RUclipsrs who fled their country, like NFKRZ or Niki Proshin and believe to have gotten a pretty good insight (even if only a tiny snapshot) into russian internal affairs and according to them, between the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Putin becoming an autocratic dictator there only were two or three years of the Russian Federation being a free country. Someone even said that the russian people have the demand for a, for the sake of neutrality let's just call it, strong leader engrained into their culture, which luckily changes with the new generation of internet-native Russians who aren't dependant on the state television stations and know how to get unbiased information. They've got the same problem as we have with the CDU/CSU - a large population of stubborn, old and indoctrinated old people who refuse to let the youth mold the world they will have to live in when those ancient farts who f-ed up the world have long turned to dust.
The problem is, before Zelenskij, Putin was kind of right, the Ukrainian government was a corrupt and autocratic one and the "Azov-Batallion" really was a bunch of openly right wing neo-nazis untill they were urged to stop using the symbols and songs openly. But every time you say that, even slightly try to differentiate, you are considered to either be against Ukraine or for Putin - when the truth is, that the war and even annexing Crimea was plain wrong. Just as wrong as acting like Ukraine is/was paradise in earth where everyone is/was an angel and they are/were the prime example for a perfect democracy. Everyone only looking into their history for a few minutes can see how they never were the saints everyone makes them out to be, but you can't say that because you just cannot say bad things about a country that has been wrongfully attacked and is fighting for their existance. The thing is, sooner or later the war will be over, the restoration will be finished and then they will have to deal with all of their problems they had before the war - they won't suddenly become the perfect example of democracy; I'm even afraid that the victory over a country like Russia, that has been considered a world power, might even spark a new wave of nationalism. Similar thing out if different reasons with Russia. As Germans we know out if experience how dangerous a humiliated world power can be and what can come from it. 😵
My point being: I don't know when or why that started, but people somehow managed to unlearn differentiating. We urgently need to re-learn it or "our" blue cravats might one day become the new "brown shirts". They already managed to infiltrate the EU parliament, the very thing they swore to be an enemy of. 🤯
Ooof, that aged like milk...
Back in the day, I wholeheartedly supported what they're saying. Well it turns out we were wrong.
we were not wrong, we are now only experiencing the consequences of our past mistakes
They made a later episode about their own responsibility in downplaying the danger of Putins Imperialism.
@@Lysandra-8 mistakes are not a "wrong" thing?
@@gonzo2495 You didn't get what she/he means.
Stating these facts is absolutely legal.
But you have to want it.
and all we have endet, before all the explaination, namedroping and before we were able to see through the spiderweb.
ruclips.net/video/eY6-KsduC2U/видео.html Full episode ;)
They never changed their opinion as i understand it. To my understanding their point was never whataboutism to justify russian (ptin) actions, but always to show the single sideness of main parts of the german media. Then they were used as an example to frame justifying russias actions. Maybe they underestimated how easily this could take out of context and be used and yes i can understand if some people say they are media experts they could/should have known it and present it in a way to avoid this possibility, which they later on did. And this is what i think is were people who have fallen for the first reframing think they changed their position and i would still argue no they didn't.