Machining G1000 Minneapolis-Moline Cylinder Heads... WE MESSED UP!
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2024
- Today we're starting the task of restoring a set of G1000 Minneapolis-Moline tractor cylinder heads... but we made a mistake!
Stay tuned for the repair...
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Love the video!! Thank you for less music and production add ons. The more raw and unedited, the better. 👍🏻
That's the way I like the videos also.
You'd be surprised at how much editing is done, even in a video from Jamsi.. Remember, they might have 4 to 6 hours of video to cut down into what you see.
As far as music and other add-ons, it doesn't bother me. What I personally dislike, is when they cut what should be a 1 hour video down to 12 minutes....
My first carpentry job my boss told me that it isn’t a mistake as long as there is a solution to correct it . And 25 years later I still apply this to my job almost every day . We face challenges, we adapt and we learn . That’s what makes us masters at our craft . There isn’t a person out there that never makes mistakes. I appreciate you guys showing us everything, because that’s how life really is .
The classic apocryphal story I've heard is the junior employee looking on in terror as they've just trashed a million dollar part. Then despondently handing in their resignation only to be shouted at by the boss asking "Why am I going to let you leave after paying a million dollars in training?!" It's a fable I've used more than once with junior software devs after a costly mistake to help them reframe what just happened.
Plus mistakes make the best stories. Nothing like getting a bunch of people in an industry together and seeing who made the most costly cockup in their career. :D
@ZaphodHarkonnen I like that.
I make many mistakes, then i forget about them in the many years that pass before i have the chance to make the same mistake again, and it goes on like that, lol
My favourite, which I learnt at the beginning of my career as a mechanical engineer was when I went to my boss to confess my mistake was "OK so we have paid your school fees, just don't lose the receipt"
I have used that many times over the years.
Crazy my dad was also a carpenter and he told me the exact thing. And i apply it as a mechanic i always find a way to get things going again. So cool 🙌🏼
Man, that cleaning guy knows his stuff, and he’s a natural on camera!
DEAR JIM AND SON; NO ONE...ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ON RUclips OR ANY OTHER PODCAST SHARES TECHNICAL DETAILS ON THEIR MACHINE WORK LIKE YOU GUYS DO. NO ONE CAN COME CLOSE TO YOUR TEACHING TECHNICS!! THERE ARE NO WORDS TO EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION OF YOUR PERFECTION! God bless!!!!😂😊❤
Agreed! Excellent free education you're providing!
They do a great job .
Try out Powell machine .he does a good job
I was a tool maker for over 40 years you guys are good! As I used to tell my apprentices not so bad to make a mistake just find a way to fix it!
Thank you for the compliment! We don't get too many of those here from the critics.
Your pops is humble and proud of you. The comment about you teaching him to use the lathe. Your a lucky whipper snapper. The cleaning guy shows a lot of patience, with all the RUclips stuff.
That’s not a mistake - it’s part of the fun of bringing new life to old equipment. 😎👍
my father raised me that if you made a mistake you fixed it. this is an example of that and from your videos i can tell you both have very good ethics and do everything right and to the utmost level of quality you are able
A $50,000 replacement valve guide insert? Is that all? Make 2!
But truly, you do an awesome job Jim. It's like I'm there with you on the job. Keep up the great work, & a 1 hour video feels better than a short one.
Nicholas with the assist on the new $50k CNC lathe!!
I would have never guessed that those 'spring locator' flanges were not a part of the head casting! I guess you're lucky they are not! Fairly easy fix and another job for that fancy new lathe!
Love learning from my mistakes, but love learning from others’ mistakes way more, thanks for your videos guys
If a mistake can be corrected, then it ain't a problem unless you didn't learn anything. Those old Molines are great tractors.
As long as you fixed that valve guide problem that's all you need to do.
30 years ago we were reconditioning some cylinder heads when I did a small automotive course at tech during my high school years & we reconditioned the cylinder head which was off a 202 cubic inch (3.3 litre) L6 engine in the Metal fabrication tech teachers Holden VK Commodore & we all took turns at cutting valve seats with a hand held tungsten carbide cutting tool & grinding the valves.
On a lot of the valve guides we just knurled then reamed the valve guides back out to their original size but a couple of them needed K line inserts installed which are similar to what you installed but the work was outsourced to a local mechanical engineering company.
We also reconditioned a set of 308 cubic inch Holden V8 cylinder heads which a student brought into tech for his brother,we reconditioned them but I am not sure if they were even used.
Since the Holden brand is GM in Australia they drilled the valve guides straight into the cast iron cylinder heads, people get them machined for positive valve stem oil seal fitment because the O ring type of seals are prone to splitting !
Anyone who has the opportunity to hear one of these tractors, running and working under a load? It's a sound like no other… Because of those power cells these engines were huge torque power houses, even naturally aspirated.
ruclips.net/video/br02t_1TIzg/видео.html
The extra heat in the head from the powercell design is probably why they commonly crack between the valves.
50 grand for a guide - what a deal! Make sure you pass that along to this one guy, then it's 100% gravy from here on. ;)
I would have made completely new valve guides from scratch with that new cnc lathe!
The perfect job for such a Maschine!
Program the part ones, pump out 12 pieces with no afford, profit! 😁
Thank You for showing the mistake and what you needed to do to fix the mistake.
Love this video. I work on restoring old diesel engines and trying to show how much work is involved in engineering your way out of parts issues is a constant battle. Excellent work guys.
We have a G 1000 vista. It's on its third set of heads they like to crack in between the valves. Pretty cool to see you guys working on these. I would ship these from Connecticut to Colorado to have you guys do it in a heartbeat lol
I’ll have to watch again for the mistake. All I saw on my first watch was solutions. Great work gentlemen. It is super satisfying to see crafstmen doing an honest days work with an emphasis on treating their customers how they’d want to be treated.
I like the fact that the head is separated into 3. Try lifting a big cast iron 6 cylinder head. It's also less prone to warping
Exactly! And also, if problems arise you don't have to replace a complete cylinder head... just one third of the assembly.
Oh wow I thought I would never hear we made a mistake 😢. But we are human and it happens good luck waiting to watch.
really? they have messed up more than a few times on this channel. and then they make it right by fixing their mistake
Learned a long time ago the only people that make mistakes are the ones that get stuff done
Tell that to the idiots in management.
this is obviously not a mistake, this is a "shit happens", not a mistake.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld So true, my reply was before the video posted. That was unavoidable by far and unforeseeable. I am a resent fan of the channel, they took the blame in the title when I know they are very good at what they do. Side note had a friend before he passed that restored old tractors down to every screw and bolt to museum quality. LoL he has done way worse to an old Massey Ferguson engine cost him two years and a pocket of money.
Great content for a Sunday morning late breakfast
Hell yeah I fired the smoker up watching this in-between managing the fire.
Brilliant work for an old fella. Show these youngsters how to overcome problems.
Good video. When working with older stuff, sometimes unexpected things break. But a pro like yourself just finds a decent workaround, and moves on. Glad you showed real-life problems, not just "easy" successes. You know what to do after a problem, but great that you share it with us. Indeed, I find your video series relaxing AND educational.
Hey I Stuck a 9/16 socket in one of those heads pushing A Guide out and cracked the head, I was only 18. Ist year in automotive class in college made my heart skip a beat sir. Love your work, they got me a sore head award. Oh to be young and stupid 🤬🦜🦜
Nobody else I'd rather have working on an honest mistake than the cleaning guy. Seriously, you guys run a great business and I just love seeing the father and son banter.
I love what you’re doing especially when I’m over Minneapolis Moline Hege. I love seeing how you do. This makes for a great time watching. It is very interesting. Keep it up.
Love the 'smoke' wafting out of Port as you ream the guides!!
From a standpoint of knowing the processes and all...I am glad I gave it up early and turned to electrical engineering. I'm not a current expert on machining but I can appreciate it(in fact I love it). Nonetheless as I am nearing retirement and I can understand the Janitor/cleaning guy getting involved just for fun. I do what I do but I think fussing and dabbling around with old machinery and new machines would be kinda fun.
I am constantly astounded by the work you boys do, it is absolutely amazing!!!!!!!
I appreciate that alarm of yours. You really are respectful to people's time.
Wow, got yourself a great lathe, you will wonder how you survived without ! No problem fixing broken old guide.
Boy that takes me back. I spent the first two years of my apprentice ship at a dealership for Minnies.
My first factory tour as a machinist was at Minneapolis -Moline engine plant in Russellville Arkansas in 1980. Them guys were busy, but it didn't stay open long after that. I never went to work for them.
Built from 1965 to 1969 - 7,397 were built - New Price $8,200
Get a bar of manganese bronze and whittle up new guides on that nice lathe. If not, well shoot me a print, those look simple to make.
Yes! The way things were going, all seemed well. But splicing the 2 parts on one valve would give me the creeps as a customer. ---- BTW, I am actually OCD, so that's just my distorted opinion.
One idea could be to maybe just replace that one particular original guide, as @seancollins9745 mentioned, and then go through original process on that one again?
Reach back and just make your best, experienced call, as I'm sure you will.
I feel for you, though. I have messed up things on the last step, myself. And if you care, as you demonstrate on every video, no one can be as hard on you, as YOU yourself. ☹
Why change materials, wouldn't it cause problems when at temperature?
A genuine question from an amateur
I noticed the slight 'D' exhaust port shape! Obviously for extreme performance!!
Ads 1/2 hp😅😅
The casting core pattern maker got enthusiastic with his fettling.
I enjoy watching the older machines in action! They take more skill, proving someone's work.. great job cleaning guy!
Great video ! Good to know many tricks of the trade ! Thanks for sharing !
That design reminds me of some of the older GMC designs where there were multiple cylinder heads per bank like their V12 engine IIRC.
Cummins had three twin cylinder heads on their straight six engines (probably still do). They made it possible to remove head(s) without specialist lifting gear.
Great content again guys. As always I learn a few new ways to do different setups and repairs on non engine related parts for some of the work that I do. Thanks for sharing your work and time with us.
Good job saving that head. I like hoe you can think past the problem and come up with a solution. A lot of people would throw un the towel and say the head was ruined, because they can't see past a problem. It takes a person with reasoning power to be able to accomplish this. Over the 45 years I was in the automotive repair business I saved several jobs where someone else quit when a problem arose.
Maybe throw some giant magnets on the bottom side of that bench? That way you can remove them to clean up any metallic particles if necessary and then put them back to help you lock your parts in.
WOW, another fantastic episode!!!
Those things are beast. I have a MM G1000 "vista" . After about the third year production people complained the seat height was too low and they raised the seat frame and operator station about 9 inches and called it the Vista. Mine is a LP in the rice configuration with a huge rear tires, you can pull that 24 foot disc all day long with it, well as long as you have a Nurse tank out in the field with some propane because it eats fuel at about four times the rate of a diesel.
Hopefully we will see part 2 of this, would be nice to see how it gets fixed ❤
I am liking the music overlay when zooming along :) love the content
That lathe is a beautiful piece of equipment. We had an old 50's era Logan lathe on the farm. I learned a lot on that lathe though.
You left the cleaning guy in the shop unsupervised?! All jokes aside, y'all are awesome. Good work, keep it up!
Isn't the power of the internet awesome? Someone was watching, and it got you a new set of valves and an awesome service manual. Service manuals are worth their weight in gold, in my opinion. There's no guessing on any repair or testing procedure it's all their in black and white. BTW, hell of a nice job on those heads 👍
This channel is so good! Thank you guys
Because of the thin , unsupported old valve guides, why didn’t you elect to swap the position of the short and long replacement guides? Thereby having a longer guide firmly seated in the top of the head, where the most side loading happens ???
I did give that some thought and on the flip side if the shorter piece is placed on the combustion chamber side, then there is less length for the press fit. I certainly did not want the short section to ever come loose, break, and fall into the combustion chamber. So, I chose to put the shorter piece on top. The splice in my guide is above the top of the head and I do not feel it will be an issue with side loading. On the guide I broke, because of having to make the spring locator/tower and trim the old guide flush with the top of the head, I did install it with the shorter piece to the chamber side and a complete full-length guide securing the new locator/tower on the top. I guess time will tell which way is better.
Hey, stuff happens! Just an opportunity to develop new fixes. Love the new lathe!
It will do a multitude of future jobs but for this parting I'm sure he was wishing for a manual lathe
@@hardtail-gy8dkWhy? Looks like the parting operation went just fine
Congrats on the new machine!
As I understand it, that pre combustion, indirect injection was known as a Lanova system. Common in older diesel.
Very impressive video. You, sir, are quite the talent.
Enjoyed the podcast style intro, videos keep getting better and better!
Nice lathe addition to the shop hope to see more content from that machine.... thanks
Jim and son, I have been watching your videos for quite a while and am always impressed with your knowledge and skills. A couple of years ago I had a Ford 250 Crossflow (non OHC ) rebuilt for my replica WW2 Willys. Had it balanced, and the shop threw in a stage 1 cam "to give you a little more low down torque". Do I look upset ??? It runs like a turbine!!.
So after watching a few of your videos I visited the local engine shop and described the sort of things I had seen you doing and how I now understood a bit more about engine reconditioning. Their reaction: "We do do that stuff all of the time"
So , no reflection on you guys, but heartening to know that my local engine shop is competent and skilful. BTW I am in Australia, and in another life would bring some of my vintage engines to you for attention. Keep up the good work and the excellent descriptions of what you are doing. Cheers, Wayne Jefferies
now my sunday morning is complete
Late friend of mine rebuilt antique tractors. Mainly JD but he did have a G-6 Moline. Stout old tractor. Another guy had a G-1000. Every year it got stronger. Eventually he won every pull. Everybody knew he was cheating but couldn’t figure it out. Turned out Moline made some water pump motors that were much stronger but not many in the country knew how to pick them out. He just went too far with custom camshafts and huge injectors with similar custom work to fuel pump. Year he was finally outed he was rolling smoke like a professional tractor pulling team.
Moline made an 800 cid motor that people commonly try to pass off as stock in the 6cylinder molines.
32:30 A wonderful shirt with black intersecting stripes. Wait ... they're not black
Nice work, and the recovery plan will work out fine I am sure.
Really enjoyed this video, lots of clear information, thanks for sharing your vast knowledge with us all ... :)
Great content thanks for sharing
i always appreciate your contents..thanks, for sharing...
Can you talk about or show how you center the drill or cutter for each valve?
MM calendar heads are notorious for cracking. We had a 1973 G950 and had to replace 2 of the 3 on it.
Cool video it's good to see you run into the same things I do too😂
Just fix and keep going thats all you can do now.
God bless you
25:26 congrats. It's always nice cutting that first part. I usually keep the first parts in a new machine with the machine, like a dice with my first 3D printer and a small key chain peon with my first lathe. Enjoy the fresh, new machine smell while it lasts! :)
Love the hand wheels on the TL-2. Wished my had them.
Fun all day long!
Great video as always 👍🇦🇺
Love the content, would love to see the fix on the guide/spring seat too
In Alberta Canada we used those engines for Dome Petroleum as pumps and natural gas engines to run generators they were famous for breaking piston skirts back in the 80's
You guys didn't mess up, that part was pretty close to failing by itself. You probably saved the engine for this customer. I would bet that this would have failed catastrophically on the customer, and it would have wrecked the engine. Good job. You and the customer should actually be happy and try looking at the others for signs of fatigue.
Great video!!! 🙂
Thanks for the heads up for the alarm it gave me time to lower the volume down on my headphones 👍🏽.
Ps. Bada$$ video 👏🏽
Great watching all that is involved in rebuilding these heads! I bet somewhere those parts exist but finding the person with those is like a needle in a haystack. Was at a garage sale and a guy had lots of M&M parts but I was interested in the signs from the dealer, I mentioned he had lots of parts, he said yep , all from a defunct dealer and if they didn’t sell they were going to be scrapped, I’m sick thinking about it.
A great result on some old heads - 'adapting and overcoming'
When you initially said that you were going to put the splice in the guides outside the head my distant thought that put it in a risk zone.
During installation I saw that there was a bit more meat to the guide but with 20-20 hindsight it would probably have been safer to do them all the other way round and would have allowed an easier repair on the shattered ring?
Back in the day, factory manuals were total beasts, regardless of the application. Every facet of the items being was described in detail.
Now you get a folded up piece of paper, and written in a dozen languages just says "plug it in, fuck you"
I laughed my @$$ off at your comment 😂. Do you know why? Because what you said is the complete truth!
Recently, I had to read my dad's 2017 Honda Fit manual. It barely tells you when to do anything. It basically expects you to trust some warning light.
In earlier times, there were dates and mileages for everything. I think people just ignored the dates and miles, so manufacturers didn't list them.
@@skylinefever
RTFM.
People don't know what that means....
I bought a grey market JDM car...
it came with a full operator's manual and an even bigger entertainment system manual....plus a complete Japanese dealer's record of maintenance.
It was 20 years old.
All the manuals were in Japanese.
Luckily many hundreds have been imported into NZ and the importers now sell manuals in English...for $48 US equivalent....so I bought one and read it...and do what it says to do!
Thanks! Sure thought it was gonna split those guides.
Cool video guys!
That "Power Cell" section of these heads kind of acts like a pre-combustion chamber. The very first Honda CVCC ( Civic ) cars that were imported into this country used this style head. The mixture ignited in a pre-combustion chamber then traveled out into the cylinder. It greatly improved fuel economy because the air fuel ratio could be leaner.
Have you guys ever used the K-line guide liner? I’ve used them in old tractors. They take a different kit for each diameter valve stem
Thanks for the video and how nice to have the Cleaning Guy getting the first official use of the new lathe.
"these cut a little bit shorter, and these cut at an inch & a quarter" ahhh machinist poetry. Didn't know you were a famous poet! Jim Allen Poe lol
With your new CNC Lathe, perhaps, make your own valve guides ???
All craftsmen make mistakes. It’s how we recover from them that sets us apart.
Just stack up a few washers....it'll be fine!
Haha, seen what ya done there, shouldn't they have a coating of some type as well?
That’s a super nice lathe!
Those kinds of manuals are the very type "WE" Shadetree mechanics need so that we don't screw things up! I usually go to the library to get the info, but having those on my bookshelf, at my fingertips would be priceless! Like when I needed them for my 60 Chevy Impala -348 CI!
Excellent
You're real guys doing real work, so don't worry about sniping from a couch in some basement.
Keep calm and machine on.
Are you going to the show? I can see you are picking your seat! 😊😂🤣
Really good video
Your son's video work and your voice, knowledge and workmanship....👍👍👍👍👍 Brand new lathe? Like you put it out of somebody's barn. 😂😂😂
I have nearly the same head in a 4-cyl Moline UTS Special Diesel that I am working on. I would love it if you guys would cover costs and pricing when you get done. I understand if you don't, but would love to see what I should expect to pay for a job like that.