YOU Wanted MORE Compression, So We Decked The 383 Stroker!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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We're moving forward on the 383 stroker build and in this week's video we walk through the process of "zero" decking the engine block!
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Any chance of getting that on a T-shirt?
Are you going to run a roller cam? I'd love to see you provision that block for a roller cam. You take pretty good quality video and I need to see how it's done right and be able to see it well. Fingers crossed that you do.
Is it possible to get a link to the wallpaper?
"When you're dumb, but smart enough to know you're dumb. Wouldn't it be nicer just to be dumb?" My new favorite quote.
Google 'The Dunning-Kruger Effect.'
I agree. Honestly though, the smartest people are the smartest because they know how much they don't know, and they will admit to it
WHAT HAS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SITE ??????
Just a quote from 21:05 when there was a slight miscalculation. (Like about half a thou?) I thought it was amusing. They are both about as far from dumb as they could possibly be.@@donbrecker8982
Dumb enough to be dangerous, my dad would have said. 😅
I respect the transparency and honesty with this shop and realization that all things aren't perfect, we do the best we can. I remember a recent video where he said "it's just the world we live in" and there's a lot of machinist that just don't have that mindset. When your talking tenths, even thousandths in some cases, all we can do is rely on our instruments and realize tenths is temps, smudges, oil, dust, just metal to metal contact variances, different instruments or how two different people use them. Stride for perfection, rely on the instruments because it's the best we can do but realize it may not be perfect and nobody will ever know. It don't get much better than this shop and I know the old man has to be so proud to have this young man excel so much in the family business. I don't trust many people to work on my stuff but I would trust these two guys with anything I have.
I Don't trust anybody/nobody to work on my " Stuff", no Thank You. I'm gona send my S6 block to Big Jim. I don't want a race motor, just an occasional spirited motor. I'm about Jim's age and we don't have to prove a thing.
"Cleaning Guy is getting some lip on him" I love it! Family is everything. Great job guys
People say shit like that if you're the newest guy at a regular shop
When a Cleaning Guy gets famous, look out. They are worse than any rock star.
Nothing builds workplace morale like a pizza party😂
Junior don't know what he is doing . decking the block .wtf
Thank you, seeing this shows what I paid 30 years ago for as a sixteen year old: I worked min wage aftershool jobs and then put what is today $3,000 into machining and assembly of a 350 long block. Last weekend that same 350 took me and my kids over a mountain highway to the beach and back and still keeps up with traffic -- plus there were a whole lot of burnouts and 6,000 rpm shifts 25 years ago
Best Sunday breakfast videos ever... and the compression cowboys will be happy today lol. Stay blessed guys, thanks ALWAYS. 🤙🇺🇸🇷🇺🤘
Talking about temps and size variations, I visited a high end tool maker shop once and they had a dedicated metronomy room that was permanently climate controlled to 60 degrees to keep consistency in measurements across the board.
I've been a job shop/prototype machinist 35 yrs. It's interesting to see the specialty machines in an engine shop. Really cool!
He ordered a big bottle of hot sauce
That will make it spicy!
Thanks for today's episode guys, much appreciated
Thanks for watching!
@@JAMSIONLINEgood stuff, glad to see a cr increase. COMETIC makes an MLS that'll be a good fit. 0.036" thick with a 4.040" (if I recall is what this is) with 0.004" in the bore will give ya 0.040" p-d so plenty. And if one is a couple short you'll be alright.
They make a 0.030" as well but I'd only try that on my personal engine, not a customers cuz 34 thou is pretty tight. 40 is great, good quench. With 4 in the hole he'll run outta cylinder wall before deck. Know guys running 5 out so... and plenty of gasket thickness options out there.
10.5:1 383/385 - 23 degree head - 106 LCA cam (maybe 108 if you are spraying but I'd rather it be optimized for na cuz not always hitting the button so I'd default to 106). Probably good for 30 lb-ft over a 110 setup that's the usual (less duration, same overlap for given rpm).
that’s awesome to see that engine block getting decked to within a thousandth of an inch
Takes a little more time but worth it!
Between 0.0005" and 0.0010" difference could almost be accounted for by someone exhaling on the deck when it was measured. Lol The effort towards precision on this is breathtaking in its sincerity.
I'd be willing to bet that most high volume long block builders would be happy with 10 times that much if they noticed at all.
@@oldsguy354while controlling temperature *_is_* absolutely vital for measurements on a very small scale, in this instance breathing on the part will not come even *_remotely_* close to making 5 tenths of a difference.
There's simply way too much thermal mass in an iron block for a few breaths to have a meaningful effect at the tenths level.
(CTE for iron is ~6.8x10^-6 in/in/F° .0000068, so you'd need to change the temp of a 7.684" slug of cast iron by ~9.6°F to change its length by .0005". That just ain't happening due to small scale human interaction of a room temp cast iron block.)
@@Iceberg86300 I was kidding, but I understand that was lost on you.
@@Iceberg86300what if a farted like really hard in the engine building room tho
I laughed that you actually edited in a second clip of your dad vacuuming the floor. I love your dad! 🔧👍🏼
Right? It was the perfect introjection.
You guys have so much character. Showing the mistakes takes courage especially on social media. Thank you for sharing.
I'm convinced that everyone who has run a machine tool has snuck up on a dimension, just to have it sneak on past the operator! I certainly have!
I took .005 off and it is still .005 to short!
Learn from toolmaker. take last 3 passes at the same depth of cut and you will never be surprised at where your finish dimmension ends up. Works for turning, facing, boring. everything. Idea is to keep the same forces on cutting tool.
If you are taking 2 passes at 5 thou and lasrt pass at 2 thou- the last pass will always have some spring and take more material off.
Man the whole bit about needing new equipment and then getting a pizza party counter offer his a little too close to home. 😢 Companies these days suck to work for. Working with your dad doing what you love must be the best.
Love you two working together. Puts a smile on my face
I worked running cnc for about 4 yrs & i remember one thing about it if i had to go another .017, i would never adjust it to go .017. I might adjust it to take .010 then recheck. If it was right on & i had .007 to go i might then take .004 then recheck. Ofcourse it wasnt a engine shop. It was production cnc & some of the machines & tooling was beraly adequate.
David v. Stated if the crankshaft spins by hand its good enough. He found that a 350 sbc can twist up to 1/16 the of a inch on the dyno! At that point there is no way the mains are in alignment. The oil film is also extremely stiff. Interesting information I thought.
My brother had a vw gas engine warped enough you needed a breaker bar to turn the engine. It heated up quicker than it should but got 38 mpg gasmilage
Why not cut .5-1 off the other side now so they are even?
Great now one side will have 10:1 and the other will have more compression so truck will drive in circles
😂😂😂
You guys do great work I wish I had someone local that had as much passion as you both. You guys care about the customer not how much money you see.
Wait, you guys are taking our suggestions??? This mouse NEEDS a dual Dominator high rise
Given that you were aiming for a 'perfect 5 thou below deck height', recommend you just reset to 4 thou below deck height and proceed to take 0.5 to 1 thou of the other bank. Engine has now been machined so that both banks are essentially equal - job done. Having said that, I would be perfectly happy with a 1 thou descrepency between banks.
That's exactly what I thought, why wouldn't you just tumble it back over to the other deck and cut a smidge more off to equalize?? I would if it was my block. Anyhow... Great video all the same.
What a great partnership you two are. Neither one outdoes the other but the father gently steers. I wish my old man had have been that way. Thanks for making these vids.
Me also, my Father hated cars and exhaust fumes...He sure liked those binoculars at the beach.
My Dad fired me. Twice.
@@Milkmans_Son My dad fired me once out the end of his knob and the next time out the door at 15.
@@Marius_vanderLubbe What I forgot to mention is I probably would have fired me, too.
@@Milkmans_Son All good, man. Nice talking to you.
So much cool information. I think you're cleaning guy needs a raise!
looks like the cleaning guy has been paying attention, he almost sounds like he actually knows what he was talking about. he earned that pizza today.
If I take my engine looking for an engine shop,and they say it will be perfect,I keep looking,for the shop that says we will get it as close as we can lol
Have you considered rotating the gauge ninety degrees to eliminate parallax?
Talking about deck height I had built a 460 30 over shut up beautiful Cobra jet heads by the time I get the block to clean it up I ended up short .020 for piston to head clearance. So we ordered a .020 copper head gasket and I very carefully used aviation permatex very thin coat on the head gasket and the block surface.
Considering the cost of IR cameras has come down so much? (it happened because of Covid of all things) Maybe think about finding an IR camera set up you can use to do quick scans of the deck and machinery so you can SEE how hot things are on the fly, so you can take a break and let things cool down. We can remove material with ease, putting material back is a bit of a .....'no'... a lot of times. To me, its cheap insurance to prevent expensive 'oops'.
Another fantastic episode!!! Looking forward to seeing this engine finished.
Checking the original deck height just proves out the line hone again. Nailed dimension and deck height with the line hone which gives you a great place to start from. It's awesome to see people good at their craft!
Great video, I’m learning a lot from the parts washer guy!
Интересно! Самое главное двигатель должен завестись! Классное видео получилось! Круто Круто!!!
Great video! I love seeing you guys work together.
I would request the clean up guy to always do my work.
thats a really nice machine. i have a SV85B with variable speed traverse but your machine looks a dream. i also don't have a fixture to index to cam bore of pushrod v8s (such as a block tru) but on the few american v8s i've done i've never managed to get the set up pretty accurate with a bit of effort. hobby performance engine builder in switzerland. a DRO would be nice. EDIT: just finished watching :). well i go from about half a thou piston recession and usually hit it dead on after pre-assembly. guess the sv85b isn't so bad - just takes maybe a bit longer.
Been a mechanic for about 17 years now. I wanna do this now.
Buy my shop and I'll show you how to do everything these gentlemen can do. No joke. Ehnes-rink is FOR SALE
Oh no!!!! LOL. Did ya go out and get a 6-71 blower? hahahahah awesome! Thanx a ton for this gentle ones.
Should have let the Cleaning Guy set that last cut... Thanks for your videos!
Such a great series! I can't wait for the playlist to come back and rewatch it.
You all present so much great insight and info!!!
Cleaning guy: Long time British car restorer, short time Hobby Machinist. I have the same problem: sneaking up on the final cut. I found machining everything in METRIC, that final cut was easier, with no over-cuts. Jus mi 2 pennies.
Should try to take a final clean up cut of zero. I have found that usually get that last few tenths.
08/06/2023 Hello Jim's. I have watched a few of your videos and I am amazed at the control of the specs. I think this is a great addition to your videos. Thanks. Don
Hey dad, it’s ok if your hands shake a little, they’ve seen a lot over the years. I’ll watch a little shake to learn from a master.
We call those mistakes in the software world a PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair. In your case is it a PEBCAM (concrete and machine)? ;)
I believe you said you guys were in Dunn. I'm in Fayetteville,Nc. If I knew you guys were that close to me, I would have brought my Ls3 block to you guys. I just dropped my block off 2 weeks ago at a machine shop.
Y'all do good work. I wish I could ship my block out to you guys to have it machined. Are you going to drill the bosses in the lifter valley for the stock style dog bone retainers?
I would have stopped at +.001. Easier to leave then put back on. There is a gasket unless you O-ring the heads and block. Lots of air cutting me thinks ? Lay the block out in the Sun if you want to add a few thousands. I used to machine aluminum gear boxes and hold .0002 on the bearing bores with a airgauge.. So I used the Sun or the drinking fountain from time to time.
Do you guys ever or is it a thing for any shop when resizing the big end on a con rod to make them under size? I mean actually .001 under the bottom of tolerance. For extra bearing crush? I had a set of rods dun & I couldn't get the bearing clearance I wanted & I found he made the rods undersized? I made him bring them into spec & then I was able to get the bearing clearance I wanted. He acted like I should leave them undersized???
After it is linehoned, then opened up and bearings installed, crank installed, retorqued… will it still be round?
yes, the bearings will crush properly once torqued in place. bearing shells are a bit thinner near the parting lines to compensate.
Would you guys have any problems building up a Toyota V-6 5VZFE engine. It’s approximately 200CID. 😊
I used to stick sandpaper to a mirror and sand a little off the main caps to bring bores into spec, this was my home garage way of doing things. Having a dial bore gauge is really helpful and something even a casual engine builder should have.
“I need new equipment”
“How about a pizza party?”
I’ve heard that before lol
Why can't you set the deck gauge up with the indicator facing you, to mitigate some of the parallax? Seems like its quite awkward to use this way?
This is one of the best channels on youtube. Showing the details of your works. Not editing out mistakes. having some fun banter with your work. Thanks for sharing your videos.
I'm amazed you don't just dummy build the first cylinder to determine pistol height and then deck the block based on that...
Its not being stupid its called being distracted, I see it everyday.
You guys put out some gold standard content, thanks, keep it up
.005 is a good deck height. Gives room to play with gasket thickness, to be able to change valve/piston clearance, if using a high-lift cam, without fly-cutting valve reliefs into the piston.
I'm surprised you didn't flip the block over and even it up on the other side.....you guys seem pretty particular about that...
On my 5.3 build I was going to deck the block but after doing a dummy build my piston's to deck clearance turned out to be 0.004in. I was aiming for 10.5.1 .CR ended up with 10.6.1 CR. I am so glad I did not deck the block before the dummy build. Think I would have been up the creek without a paddle with pistons out of there holes.
🇦🇬
Perfectness is definitely a word👍🏾Love your videos⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️.
🙇🏾♂️
With the abundance of head gasket options out there I always run my stuff at .000 to -.005” piston to deck clearance, but even if it is .005 in the hole you can use thinner head gaskets, but I get it when you’re dealing with the public and customers that are not engine builders you have to set things up so that you don’t have come backs or disasters
Exactly, a few thou here or there, so many variables 🤔👍
Throughly enjoyed your video, thanks for showing everything. Not that I don't like tractors but 350 sbc really hits home..... I'd love you guys to do my motor
Man, i WISH you were my machine shop. Ive gone through a dozen different shops now. From crooked decked heads, to tapered bores, i cant find anyone worth a damn any more.
I feel your pain!
Reminds me of a loco engines that would squeak under load . This was 1981. Was doing an in frame on a Baldwin Hamilton Lima 1943 . the rods were . Over .090 out of round journals are over 9 inches hard chromed and still round then . GE Apparatus service Phoenix AZ resized the rods . When things are round no more squeaking . I doubt the rods were ever checked on these in frame rebuilds . Basic engine fundamentals.
I would have went with what you said/recomended at first for a street engine arround 9:1 and aluminum heads. That way I could head across country and run any gas I chose to buy and full 36 degrees. I mean its a truck and not going to set any national records. It would still run/feel good at lower compression. Torque baby torque. And old girl probably has a 370 gear in it.
People should realize that 1/1000th of an inch is about 1/3rd the thickness of an average hair from your head.
Are you going to stamp the block deck height on the block someplace like where the rpo numbers were stamped so anybody trying to fit an intake knows what to take off the manifold.
Jim's Automotive, In cases where you have to Line Bore a block and maybe that block has already been Line Bored before, How can the engine builder compensate for the resulting slack in the timing chain ?
I machine diesel blocks for liner protrusion shims. I did 1 yesterday and had to do it for 2 different sized shims in in half the holes because the erosion was so bad. It is nerve racking to change your setup and numbers in your head halfway through all while the customer is watching. It's like working in a fish bowl. I have to be within .002 across all 6 holes and within .001 of holes next to each other. The liners have a protrusion spec of .001- .006. I was .0055-.006 when done. It was a stressful but rewarding 8 hr deal. The cutter tool is hand operated.
call the local Franciscan monastery and whip yourself in front of mother mary, a whole thousandth, jesus. what could be worse LOL
I don't like to go zero go 10 to 15 in hole and use .027 to .030 mls 1st time then next build have enough to clean up EZY
The intro/hold scene. . Seriously cool. Howd you create it?
Put my 428 Pontiac together .010 out of the hole t get proper quench, working great
Great video, very interesting, we practice the same procedures in our shop! We have a f99y rottler and a em103 rottler, makes the hole process of boring, surfacing, and lineboring quicker, enjoy your videos!
Great work guys! Dad is such a gem!
It would be great if some day you deck & bore a diesel engine, and you go ahead explaining the relationship between bore oversize & deck height in diesel engines. 😀👍
Don't most real diesel engines use replaceable cylinder liners? As far as the deck height, you'd check the counter bore, and cut or shim that, I think.
To measure deck height I used to install the piston/rod assembly without rings. Find TDC. Cock the piston one way in the cylinder and measure the deck height to the side that’s lowest. Cock the other way, and measure the lowest point again. Add the two then divide by 2, and that’s the deck height😊
Yea I do this to with the magnetic deck tool and a dial indicator, would you call that the manual way of doing it? I would like to have that deck height tool that measures off the main saddle. I seen them use it in previous videos and tried to find one with a Google search with no luck.
@@stevenbelue5496
Haven’t been in the business since the ‘80’s. They’ve got some super tools, and intelligent applications, nowadays, that I don’t think were thought of, back then😊. That is one of them
WELL DONE
like you talk about here with the machine warming up the head and spindle i tried to explain that to someone one day and they laughed thought i was kidding on old mill the a large fly head cutter like this, well later that day they happily cut along and suddenly -.003 difference popped up out of no where everything warmed and expanded then they realized why i left the bay doors loading dock and entry doors closed so the heat from outside didnt creep its way inside. now start working the difference of iron versus aluminum block and head. machine and part temperatures can make huge finish impact.
Quit one shop they got it in head that "hey we will turn heat down at night save huge amount of money " only to find out dead of winter its -20 outside the shop dropped to 50 degrees crank heat up so the air feels warm but machine and material of parts going to cut are still ice cold, then they expected to jump on machine and start cutting ha ha ha
Thank goodness it's getting some compression love this series but at 9.1 I was like why lol
Hey - even Forest Gump knew that he wasn't a smart man... 😉
The 0.022 off the deck with a 4.ish inch bore should be slightly over 4cc's, @TDC . Maybe half a point of compression. Volume at TDC is critical to static compression ratio. With a 4.0 inch stroke in my 468, I have the 47cc dome piston .012 out of the hole and run a .041 head gasket to hit the 13.0:1 C/R. Compression Ratios can be hard to come by in these smaller displacment engines.
My ocd says roll it back over and take another half thou off the other side
Once again ! Another interesting video . Thanks for sharing !
This is blue printing 101. I'm sure most people have learned alot from you guys.
The main thing I take away, and have always known...... trust nothing, measure, and adjust accordingly.
If your running premium fuel all the time anyway, why not have the compression 10 to 1 or 10:5 to 1? its freeish hp!
Cleaning Guy - "I need new equipment!!" "How bout a pizza party?" 🤣🤣
When the block is feeding across the cutter, can the feed rate be controlled or is it just preset at the factory to always feed at the same speed?
He slowed down the feed rate for his final finish cut 👍
@@lancecooper4646 That dimensional change is due to the feed rate being reduced. As you’re moving across the surface and removing material, your creating grooves, also known as cusps. The faster you move across the material the more shallow the. The slower you move across the deeper the cusp. The radius of the cutter used also makes a difference… the larger the radius, the more tool pressure being applied. Thus causing more deflection.
That’s why when he slowed the feed and went to his finish dimension on the readout, he fell below by .001
I’ve been machining for over 30 years and this is a common occurrence.
@@SteveColluns-hm2xx ahh, thankyou, that actually makes sense taa 👍
Some of the best running engines I know of the piston came out of the bore.
Gasket thickness figured in, get the quench right, and create a MONSTER!
Do you also mill the intake end surfaces after milling the deck?
Just my kind of Sunday morning show
I found it very interesting your video excellent information right down to the Nats AS S found it very informational also on the wiz Z E r wheel damage they always talk don't use them and the aluminum and they actualy ARE bad on cast too
Brings me back to my days with the CK-10 (Sunnen) which WOULD line hone main saddles
Awesome job looking forward to seeing the next video.
Where to buy the big bore vaccum hose vaccum cleaner.
You can't tighten arp studs down they will crack the block they're meant to be finger tight its in the instructions it changes clamping force on mains and it will lock up bearings but line hone is the solution arp studs can also cause lateral angle issues
Doesn't take much to make a mistake which is avoided by lack of distractions. If you are distracted with outside issues or people distracting you is all that it takes. Lucky it wasn't a blunder and.just a mistake which can be over come with the same parts.
totaly agree less yucking it up = less error