Block Machining Is DONE But The Camshaft DOESN'T FIT... Can We Fix It?
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2024
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We're back to work on @ScannerDanner 's 483ci Big Block Mopar Stroker, but we've run into a problem with the cam bearings (surprise surprise!)
Can we fix it?
Be sure to check out the entire build series here: ruclips.net/user/playlist?list...
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#bigblockmopar #cnclathe #customenginebuild 
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One way, and idk if it's the proper way, to part something in a lathe; is to hold a screwdriver in the center hole and send your cutter all the way through. I've also seen the hack saw method with the lathe turning very slowly.
What ever happened to making a cutter/clearancer out of the old camshaft
Watch some @CuttingEdgeEngineering
Swaging also affects 360°, so you are adding clearance where its not needed, scraping only adds additional clearance to the needed area. Big Block Chevy's that run hard also have cast iron core shift issues. Using coated bearings... forcing a cam in will remove the coating on the high spots... or, there's always Prussian blue. Scraping offers superior results, done right. Bore scope might be handy, picked one up off A**zon myself & fix-n to maybe use it in the near future scrapin cam bearings. Video of the work on the aluminum cylinder heads you did impressed me, ending in ice cream even better.
"Listen to what I'm thinking, not what I'm saying". That made me chuckle.😂 I hope you guys realise how entertaining you are and how much your videos are appreciated. 🙂👍
That was the quote of the year!
I need a t-shirt for my wife that says that! 😂
Polish the tight journal on cam is what we did back in the day
There was mention of two guys doing a one man job. I like the fact that a father and son work together to get the job done right.
I just commented on another post. But the family dynamics and the real world knowledge is on point. There's times where the absolute proper way may be different. But in life you have to make compromises and they do it right, especially when they have to make a compromise. The stuff we did on nuclear reactors In submarines. would make people go crazy if they knew😂😂😂😂😂
Ya, better outcomes are possible, but at twice the time taken. Good work is never accomplished quickly.👌
it’s good to see the cleaning guy taking on more responsibilities
He’s a real go getter!
😆
only if you can get him off the phone
New fellow eh?
@@JAMSIONLINE you should keep him around!! lol
You’re a lucky boy. Man I miss my Dad. He’s been gone 8 months. Warms my heart, watching how you two work and laugh together
Sorry to hear of your loss. These two are pretty darned awesome for a little diversion. God bless!
Let's just comment on how CLEAN the cleaning guy keeps the shop.
The father and son dynamic that y’all share is refreshing. Complete opposite of the dynamic that Orange County Choppers had. Don’t ever change what you’re doing 👍
Agreed Short! I had a strong dislike for OCC because of its father son dynamic. It was un-necessary and WAY overdone, and got very tiresome quickly.
Well done Jim and son! Well done....
OCC isn't even in the same league as Jim and Nick, cause Jim n' Nick are genuinely cool people.
@@Sunspot-19yes I agree they are super cool and very down to earth
I was lucky enough to meet them at PRI convention last fall. Needless to say it was the highlight of my trip that week. Much love for the J.A.M.S.I. family
@@doggfriendly Genuinely good folks. That is becoming more and more of rarity these days.
I dont think the cleaning guy likes drugs and roids that much so we should be safe.
I really appreciate a video of this length focused so intensely on just one aspect of engine building. It demonstrates what you are trying to accomplish, why it is so important to get it right, and the skill and ingenuity which are brought to bear when things don’t fall into place as they are supposed to. Well done!
Appreciate the comment! Thanks!
I remember Uncle Tony’s Garage talking about how he re-uses cam bearings if at all possible during rebuilds, and now it makes sense because he’s a Mopar guy.
And UTG has a video on why comprehensive deburring and polishing a block helps prevent stress risers and cracking.
UTG is a joke
@@DrmcclungYet he used to build 426 Hemi Chrysler nitro drag race engines for years running the nitro circuits back in the 80s .
@@peteloomis8456 He was a joke 40yrs ago in the nitro circuit too
@@DrmcclungNo when they were racing they were actually competitive enough to beat well known race teams .
The best thing about this was watching the father, son relationship and the wisdom of dad. Not taking away from you Nic, because you're one smart cookie too. Thanks for a great video! I was surprised to jump in here and read in the comments how common this is, and what people do to fix this problem.
I remember reading an article by Rick Ehrenberg, the tech editor at Mopar Action magazine, where he said that Chrysler did line hone the cam bearings after they were installed.
Unfortunately Mopar Action magazine has gone belly up I just seen in a very recent video on RUclips because the investors decided to pull out because they were mostly selling the magazines on book shelves at news stands and at Walmarts book stands and not many were being sold plus a lot of the car oriented material now is being streamed on RUclips or other platforms and people seem to rather do this than buy a magazine or magazine subscription and actually read the content which I like to read because I enjoy reading . I had bought a Mopar Action magazine from a Walmart book stand & was going to subscribe like I did many years ago 90s then it had gone under but now I'm glad I didn't because some people were saying that they had paid for a magazine subscription just now and didn't get a refund & got burned . UTG just did a video of him and the guy just after the announcement of the magazine going under again I had seen this but I haven't yet sat down to watch it because it's relatively a long video but will get to it once I'm cought up on my own projects lol . I do know that some engine builders use cam bearing knives to scrape the cam bearing if the cam fits tight especially on the Chrysler engines but I've built quite a few of them & yet had any problems with the cam bearings fitting so tight the cam won't turn & I feel that part of the problem is that the cam bearings aren't being made to quality spec standards probably because they are probably made in China now & quality control has dropped just like what's happening with a lot of flat tappet hydraulic and solid cam shafts and lifters that aren't ground correctly or the steel used is too soft because of improper heat treating for hardness that we are seeing & hearing about quite often now with cam & lifter failures even when using the correct amount of zinc added to the oil .
@@peteloomis8456 I ran automotive machine shops back in the 70's and no matter whose cam bearings we used there were always alignment problems. And it was always the #2,3or4 just as shown in this video. This was long before China made stuff.
This is something I was wondering about. Plus after a couple hundred good hours of running the engine I understand the block kind of falls out of spec with all the irregular concentrates of heat and stress. After this time it is stable and candidate for remanufacturing. Resulting in a better engine than bran spanking new.
I hope some younger guys (and girls) are watching this and can see that machine work does not have to be knuckle-dragging in a dungeon for a shop. I like your approach to getting things right!
If you had needed that second swaging tool to be a tiny tad bigger for a little more clearance, you could simply have heated it up a bit with a heat gun and pulled it through again. I'm sure it would have expanded about the right amount with a modest heating.
This is an interesting idea!
I was taught a long time ago to take a good cam (not going to be used) and put it on the Bridgeport and endmill all way down in a straight line past all the journals. Your basically making the cam a cutter. Stick it in, rotate one turn and pull out. It takes off all the high spots. Some guys have been doing this for years and years and thats how they correct the issue and thats how i was shown when i ran into my cam not turning for crap. Now some will have a problem w this but some badass motors i know of have been done this way as well as street driven stuff.
I'm going to give you a TIp as someone gave me ... Take a small rod that fits the oil hole in the bearing or a two-stage hole that fits the case and then lower down one that fits the bearing hole. When you put the cam bearing in the rod will fall in the holes if you have them correctly aligned. I use this technique when I build the engine from the case.
Nice job fella's ! The word "accomplishment" says it all , thumbs up to the cleaning guy !
Thanks for watching!
"Listen to what I'm thinking, not what I'm saying" Classic quote, I'm stealing it for my own use! BTW, love your videos!
1:24 Nick’s Garage had the very same issue with cam bearings many many times and what he ended up doing is taking a stock camshaft and scor the bearing surfaces turned the camshaft into a reamer and rotating the camshaft in the bare block till he could get the bearings to fit. And Nick is a Mopar guy too
I was reading comments to see if anyone mentioned that before I did, but I had various old cams in my shop that I ground an edge in the journals to make a reamer. I even had a guy bring me a 383 Mopar that he already had the short block together and couldn't get the cam in, I used my "reamer" and the cam went right in, I told him, ALWAYS put the cam in first!
That'll work fine. I've used my pocket knife.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 Yea, me too, and bearing scrapers, that can be very time consuming on a really bad one, good for just one little tight spot though.
While I’m busy and can’t stay to watch this, I’ll watch later. This channel is rapidly becoming my favorite on RUclips. The cleaning guy is my hero lol! He certainly knows his onions. For those of you who are younger, that term means he is a wealth of knowledge!
Thank you!!
Agreed on quickly becoming my favorite channel.
No doubt! Definitely in my top five!
@@stephencooper5040 Yeah, the family dynamic the real world expertise just hits.
This talk is dangerous. Give him too much praise and cleaning guy is going to start walking around like he owns the place.
This is going to put his boss in a difficult position.
My family had a Corvette-only sales, service, parts department, and body shop. This comment is about the machine shop that we used, they had built a small block Chevy engine that was fully dressed, with heads, intake, carb, water pump, and distributor, and had it sitting on an engine stand by the door. One day we were picking up a block and the owner said to my brother, if you can pick up that engine (the one on display) and carry it out the door he could have it. So my brother walked over, picked the motor up, walked out the door, and set it down in the back of his truck. Immediately the owner started crying that he was just kidding and that he didn’t mean it, despite everyone that was in the office calling him out on it. He got his guys to get the motor out of my brother’s truck and we never used that company again and as the story spread, other people stopped using them as well. I’m not saying he went out of business because of us, we wouldn’t wish that on anyone, we’re not that type of people, but he was closed less than a year after the incident.
😊, I use to carry a short block. That's why I ruined my back.
@@2nickles647 My brother did the same, he’s had to get both of his hips replaced and his right knee replaced from lifting heavy weights. Whereas I struggled with lifting a cast iron head.
That Monza in the background CRIES OUT FOR LOVE!
Here here!
I've never seen this done to fit cam bearings!! That's awesome!!!
When you’re turning on a CNC lathe….anytime you change your speed or feed or both, it will affect the size your cutting.
The faster you go across the surface , the less shallow your tooling grooves are which results in a larger O.D. The slower you go across a surface, the deeper your tooling grooves which results in a smaller diameter. Same goes with the tool nose radius of your insert…smaller radius makes smaller tooling grooves (also known as cusps).
The pride you guys take in every single job shows. Thank you for showing us the right way to run an automotive machine shop!
This is always been a problem with big mopar. I kno that u aren’t supposed to alter the bearings in any way but I’ve actually had to emery them down to get a cam to free up so it would spin free. Did this many times
You're the one!
for parting heavy parts put a round bar stock in your boring bar holder or tailstock and run it in the bore of the part to part off, this allows you to close the door, and keep the parted part from dropping
You guys are better produced show than most of the rubbish on TV, keep it up and I love how the traditional old school knowledge and ways are being mixed with new methods to have a best of both worlds approach
They go at a collective rate then pop in the occasional slow mo effect to knock it home. I appreciate this.
Thanks! We really appreciate it!
I had a mercedes m112 " iirc" inline 6 from a 1966 s250 with efi, and the cam towers were wasted as was the camshaft journals. Had the camshaft spray welded, and then i made ampco45 bearing bronze inserts on my old monarch, pressed them in, then had the head line bored and honed. Cam shaft speeds are typically perfectly fine with ampci brinze and it's way easier to line hone bearings than fight with press fit, line bore,,finish size. As for the drill bit breaking, make yourself a setup tool for your collet holder and indicate the drill bit in on x and z with a indicator on the chuck. Been there done that got the tshirt
Another example of my four favorite words... "All ya' gotta do." Well done 😎
Don't cringe but I have used the old cam to make a fine cut reamer to remove a little metal from the interfering part of the new bearing. I had done this on small block Fords and small block Chryslers. It worked well if you just went slow and careful. These motors were generaly run hard and never experienced any problems. I like your broach system better, more precise. Once an experienced builder told me, if the old cam bearings were good to not hot tank the block. Just clean with elbow grease and solvent since the hot tank would destroy installed cam bearings.
I wondered if anyone else did that, and here you are! Used that method in the 70's on big block MoPars with an old cam/reamer with a timing gear for a handle and never had any problems. I learned it from someone long, long gone. It was easy to make and quick to use and never removed much metal but did the job.
Nick’s Garage on RUclips has done the same thing as you have Craig Hansen on Mopars
Buick 322 cam bearings are different sizes also and the cam will not fit. Some machine shops used a reamer from an old cam; some align honed and some ground the journals to fit the bearings. All methods worked with no issues until one shop used a bent cam. Good thing I ran the oil pump on the engine stand to find low oil pressure and the gush of oil from the center bearings.
To take on a machine like that cold turkey, you are hardly an idiot . Nice work !
Having the tools and the skill to fabricate additional tools is priceless.
In shop class the first thing they instructed was the two most important tools are a file and a hammer. It's that from there you can make more tools and eventually it snowballs into a successful operation. So there was a movie in that class.They made a rifle. A blacksmithing operation. Lots of hammering. Lots of filing.
@@jamespell8091 My years as a machinist placed the need for tool making on the front burner. Making a specialty cutter was common. Regrinding a mill cutter saved a great deal of time and money as some cutters are stupid expensive. All that takes is ingenuity and imagination, along with the other skills we already possess.
Many moons ago in high school auto shop class I rebuilt my 225 slant 6. The cam was very tight on that one, too. The shop teacher used sections of old piston ring as a scraper on the tight bearings.
Great idea. Us mopar guys have fought this for years
41:30 chuck up a brass or aluminum rod in your tailstock and insert it into the hole in the part. When you part it off, the rod will catch it and keep it from falling into the chip tray.
I was taught to do the #1 and #5 cam bearings, install the cam, check it for run out at #3. That would give you an idea of whether any issues were because of the block, or a bad cam machining process. If everything checked at that point, pull the cam, install #3 bearing, and check cam fit and free spin again. If ok, repeat for #2, and #4. This is how i did it in all the small blocks Mopars I've built, and I haven't had any issues. I was advised that a wheel cylinder hone was the solution to tight bearings.
The self centering broach they made is much, much nicer than a wheel cylinder hone .
@@verteup and risks exactly what they discussed, pulling the bearing out. Having the CNC like they have, back when I was taught how to do, it was not an option. Usually just enough to polish the protective coating was the key. And worked every time.
@@Mrsnichols1965 they're also not doing guess work. They want a diameter in a certain spec range. Sometimes guess honing ain't good enough.
@@verteup no one is guess honing if they have calipers or micrometers. Even more to the point, no one is damaging or obscuring oil passages if a hone is used. A broach pushes material, which may not be desirable if the bearing has chamfered oil holes. So, you do what you feel works, and I'll live with my success.
The tight cam bearing(s) always show where they're tight, and it's rarely in the full circumference. This is a very modern approach to an age old problem. We use bearing knives and abrasive flapper wheels on a long shank to correct the problem. We also flapper wheel the bearing housings as Chrysler used a rock and cold chisel to machine them in the first place.
Love watching you guys it takes me back when i was a young boy watching my grandfather in his shop he was also a machinist
Not your typical Dad & Dave situation, very interesting, informative but of your comments got stuck with me , " things I've been doing WRONG all these years", a very harsh word to use weather it be towards yourself & not that you did but towards someone else, I myself have used extensively in the past & have learnt over the years that it puts people off or in a state of limbo so I started to say " not right " , not quite right or not correct. So in short I have found the outcome much more rewarding for others & beneficial in business workings . Thank you guys .
Aligned broached is borderline genius
The swedge or burnish tool idea was brilliant. A little take it or leave it advice. Your CNC probably has a feed-rate override. Maybe something like a rheostat knob or a up/down button. You can slow rapid traverse during set-up. Creep up to work-piece. Lessen the pucker factor.
Also, your lathe probably has mutliple on screen read-outs. Location of tool, etc. A 'distance to go" read out is useful when setting up. A 'how far until next line of program' distance. If distance to go reads 3.00 inches in Z axis and your 1.00 inch from work piece, you'll know there's a problem.
Also, when setting up work as you did here, fairly close tolerance, allow for two finish passes. Say, mild steel, leave .030. Take half first pass. Mic and offset down remaining pass. Two equal passes allows for equal tool pressure. Many factors determine tool pressure. Size of work, distance from chuck, etc. Ok, good job. Thanks.
What a team!! I remember when you guys first started your channel, you have come a long way and I am very happy for your success, you deserve it 👍
Cleaning guy needs a raise!!
Nice job. I appreciate the collaboration and father son banter. Both of you are fortunate to work with each other, I hope you appreciate it because it’s truly special. The TL2 is a great addition to the shop. I have a TL1 in my home shop and it gets used more than any other machine. Cheers from Florida’s Space Coast.
Love to see a father and son team ❤
Outstanding work way to think outside of the box. I helps when you have the right tools available.
Love how you explain what you are doing
You guys did a real good job of sorting out the cam bind. Excellent work fellas,and like anything,time on that CNC will make you better at it.
Back in the day, we took a old cam, and milled a partial flat, at about a slight angle to the centerline of the cam, to get something similar to a single flute, on a reamer, on the camshaft journals, then sharpened the cutting edge.
Looking back, not sure it was right, but it worked…
I'm glad you mentioned it, because I was wondering about it pulling the bearing through.
You guys do a good job on the video shooting......and, the humor makes sense.....your narration and interactions in doing the work make a lot of sense and are easily understandable.....
Nothing like spending time with your father while enjoying your work.
I really appreciate the good work you do finding ways to correct problems
I remember back in the day working in a machine shop, having cam bearing installation issues with early LS engines and FE Fords. The LS engines were really tight and the FE's were very large diameter and thin.
How interesting was this ! Thanks for sharing !
Pretty brave to be stumbling thru you first time doing CAD/CAM for the entire world to see! Hats off to you!
For years, I have heard of this problem of misaligned cam bearing journals misaligned. Ford FE, Buick 215 V8, Cleveland, now Dodge B/RB is on the list. Clever solution, well done. Here comes the avalanche of orders for cam bearing tooling.
I remember having the same type of interaction with my dad when we we shade tree'in on our farm equipment. This was fun to watch, you two are very blessed to have the (well I'll just say it like I see it), love and respect that you have for each other. We came up with some pretty unsophisticated solutions about 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning occasionally. Of course we couldn't even spell CNC. I'm 75 now, and I still miss him.
Absolute gem of a video!! Very impressive..
Brilliant work gentlemen. There is no limit to how much a good lathe, or even a mediocre one, benefits a shop. Yours is a beauty and I’m sure that it will get frequently used.
Thanks for sharing,
Excellent job guys. I think the more you use the lathe the easier it will get. Thanks for posting.
Thanks… love the fact your showing off the CNC lathe 😊
Thanks for watching!
I’m hoping to make some of these general machining operations fit well into the channel as we learn! Glad you enjoyed!
My first attempt at a cam bearing install revealed the last bearing was way too tight, so an old engine builder taught me how to turn the old camshaft into a cutter. Worked well, motor still runs well!
Very cool to see you come up with a smart and highly effective solution when faced with a challenge. Great work!
Many years ago, I fought this issue on a 240 LA rebuild for days. Having a lathe, and thinking of this solution would have saved a lot of time.
Good job on figuring it out. My Dad and worked together at a tube bend shop, one of the types of jobs we had was pulling a ball through the side wall of a tube to make a smooth transition for a T's or a Y's for Boeing 747 and 777. Dad was the tool and die maker, I just made the oxygen lines.
Looking at these videos inspire me so much, I wish I had a shop like this.....
ScannerDanner made a couple payments on that lathe! Jim, you and Nick are an amazing team!!
Excellent thinking and work, guys@
You two guys are amazing you’re so smart with the numbers which I no nothing about. I find your videos so informative and educational and the care that you two put into the machine ing awesome job
I'm pretty fascinated by this operation. Nicely done, men!
So satisfying, I learn so much watching you guys. Those tools you fashioned are just awesome.
Fascinating to watch the process, especially from a guy that has mono vision. Loving my "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" mat you designed. Wife Laura started to comment when I placed it at my computer, then decided to just say "glad you like it". She is so smart.....
I've built several big block Chryslers and they almost all had tight cams. The first one was a back yard build and I spun the cam in pretty forcefully and then hand scraped and polished the tight bearings where they shined up. Slow tedious process and I didn't like that so I made me a tool from an old cam on the next one. Used a cutoff wheel on a Dremel tool and ground a diagonal cut across the 3 middle journals. I ground them on an angle into the journal to form sort of a "blade". Lube it up and gently turn it in with a wrench with just a slight pressure in. Sometimes they make a bit of shavings but usually just a smidge in the groove. Seems to make a nice finish on the bearing without scratching it up. I did take my time making the grooves and cleaned them up to a smooth blade. It works very well and fast too with no special tools. I think I've used it 4 times so far.
That was a pretty cool trick, nice job guys
WOW !!! You guy’s are AMAZING .. Old school and New school .. CHEERS to you both .. interesting videos .. 👍👍
Great work guys. Those little steps win the race!
That was awesome. Slick cam bearing install tool as well.
When I was a zone rep for Chrysler the story of after installation cam boring was common. I have not watched the video yet but another truism was that the shop manual was off 0.001 for the number 4 bearing and always had been.
We had tooling plates that set the distance between the crank and the cam tunnel and tooling that would align either the cam tunnel bores or the bearings exactly. We could overbore for larger than the small Chrysler bearings or for roller bearings and adjust for main align bores
we could also od bore the cam journals so we could feed from a not bottom of the bearing location
Now to watch the video and see what you came up with cheers
My old boss was a mechanic who worked on building the cameras for the U2 spy planes. The Tolerances were typically always within 5 10 thousands of an inch.
but before each day started they ran the machines for 20-30 minutes to warm -up before cutting in order to get consistent and accurate cuts.
When doing such accurate work you may considerer this,
Last comment I promise.
The material you are broaching can rebound behind the tool so it can be smaller than the broach size. It can also actually work harden the material.
We used to do it with balls through the piston pin bore
Wow! What a fantastic episode! I will say y'all made a silk purse out of a sow's ear! And I think y'all will know exactly what that saying means... I love watching y'all work together!!!
I have truly enjoyed this entire series of videos, great job!!!
I certainly would not have bothered 'swedging' the other bearings, as it spins nicely with the two already done. A great video of a simple solution to a problem. Well done
Getting better all the time
It's good to see you making tools that will save time and money in the future. That CNC machine will come in really handy in the future once you guys learn the programs and the ins and outs of that machine.
I'm glad to see you chamfered the bottom of the cylinders.
really like this solution of swaging / swedging to fix tight cam shaft. kudos.
Damn, I can not wait until I can get my sons doing some problem solving and business creation in my shop. It's just too cool the dynamic you've got going on.
Needless to say but I’ll do it anyway. Nice work men! Thank you for taking us along and explaining each step in layman’s terms.
That's a really neat trick, well done guys 👍
Wow, Nice Work I feel that you Nailed it . I wounder just how many engines were Ruined by an over Tight Cam. Just a hand line bar to size them all together in the block is Genius ... Just that one Extra Step making sure they are all good . So Cool ,,
Thanks for another great video you two, dad and son.
It was amazingly interesting and informative and entertaining.
I have been with your channel for about three to four weeks now and I absolutely love it!!!!!! You both are so inspiring and talented to watch and come up with ideas like on this Chrysler cam bearings.
The CNC machine was so very nice to have to make the tool. My compliments to you both.
I agree with dad that it is good where it is and would not try resizing it more. Believe it will run just fine where it is. End of that chapter!!!!!!!!!!
Will be anxious to see more work done on this motor and eventually see it run-yeah!!!!!!!!
I really enjoyed watching what you did and how it came out. Enjoying your channel.
Your CNC machine is paying for itself.
Looking forward to the next video. Thanks for everything!!!!
The retired Air Force veteran.
Great idea guys!
Excellent content guys. I really enjoy this technical stuff. Keep up the good work.
Guys your awesome this was a very educational video, please make the rest of your tool and keep it handy. Mopars are notorious for this issue.
That is Great work. Ive been doing it wrong for years. Thank you for sharing🏁🏁
Your logic is amazing, it works.
Good solution good outcome 👍
Great job and entertaining solution
I am very impressed!