History of German Supercharging - EXPLAINED in Detail
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Let's have a closer look at German Supercharging and answer the question why they always packaged the superchargers 90deg to the crankshaft - a design that is very different from other nations.
The history goes back to the 1880's and many famous names are involved.
The research for this video required buying a couple of old German Engineering books, reading through old German handwriting and visiting a couple of museums across the country to untangle that lost engineering knowledge.
Enjoy and let me know what other topics you are interested in!
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Great video. Thank you very much.
now your long live question has been answered
Much of the lacklustre performance in engines during the First World War period (compared to nowadays) was due to the fuel used. In fact what we call gasoline was just one of the fuel options used at the time as people were still working things out with internal combustion engines. These severely impacted the amount of compression that could be used down to about 5:1. Combined with the primitive lubrication oils of the time, these aircraft engines maxed out at around 2,500 rpm. These engines also typically had very long strokes, so they were not rev happy. These are some of the factors that drove supercharging development.
Atmostphere is thinner
To be honest, the 2500rpm limit is based on a totally different fact. The props and in more detail, the tips limits the top rpm to rougly 2500 for most of the airplanes. Gearboxes for that task are a real big deal. The props are far to light compared to the power output for dampening the torsional oscillation caused by the engine. Therefore the engineers had to use a direct drive. Up to now Lycoming and Continental stick to that principle. And, a max power at 2500 fitted perfectly to a low octane fuel and a low compression ratio. If you ever heard a Rotax engine (flimsy 100-120PS) with its gearbox during startup you will see/hear how hard it is to build a reliable gearbox even today.
This is literally a copy and paste from another video, idk which one but I 100% recognize it
wow, had my mind blown only 3 minutes into the video with the whole "why is the intake on the left and the exhaust on the right" bit
We are blowing engines and minds today then.
Cross flow...
Has anyone brought this to the attention of Greg’s airplanes and automobiles? He asked about this specific question a year or so ago, which is why I was even aware that it WAS a question. I love learning about things I didn’t even know that I was curious about!
I think your two channels might really be able to collaborate productively, for the benefit of all. 👍
See below. Greg comments.
He has a VERY detailed explanation of the supercharger methods used by Germany on the ~600 series engines and 109.
His question was why the DB engine's were invented, he ask people why they thought it was an advantage with the most accepted answer being that it made servicing the valve train much easier since it could be done standing on the ground instead of having to be on a ladder or scaffolding, especially maintenance in the field being much easier.
Great content. My father explained a lot about these to me, 40 years ago, I'm surprised how knowledgable he was about WW2 aircraft, he had so much committed to memory, watching these really takes me back to the days when we built scale model BF109's , Spitfires, Mustangs, Corsairs, and the FW190. He was 5 when WW2 started.
Fascinating history of both German cars and aircraft, and also of the engineering history and designers!
A few years ago I became fascinated with the design concepts and engineering of German WW2 aero engines and what I discovered was truly amazing. The torque-coupled fluid flywheel setup for the supercharger is ingenious yet simple and efficient in its application for the pilot who simply looked for "atmospheres per kilometer" of height rather than changing gears or selecting levers with the associated turbo lag that apparently could be a problem for Allied systems. With the German system the oil filled converter was the clutch, the oil hardening with altitude and therefore providing the higher volume of intake pressure, basically an automatic boost system designed to take the workload off the pilot.
The other aspect of the DB series engines was the use of single overhead camshafts with a unique system of interposed roller followers that actuated the four valves on each cylinder. A simple and efficient system that reduced the parts count and therefore materials weight in the design. That and the temperature controlled Bosch direct injection induction system made these engines very advanced for the era. I recall reading a report made during the Battle of Britain where a capture DB601 engine was closely analyzed. The findings were that many of the automatic engine management systems should be included in future British engine designs.
The fluid drive did have a significant downside: when slip was high (at lower altitudes) it dumped a great deal of heat into the oil, resulting in shorter life of the engine oil.
Junkers adopted an even better design in the Jumo 213, combining a 2 speed gearbox with variable inlet guide vanes ahead of the supercharger impeller. By rotating the guide vanes the impeller could be made to act like a smaller one at low altitudes, eliminating the throttling losses without heating the oil.
By the way, almost all of the engines with 2 speed supercharger gearing had automatic gear changes controlled by a barometer. The in-cockpit switch for changing to high gear was only used for testing the gearbox on the ground prior to take-off. So usually no pilot intervention was needed in flight.
Absolutely great research, as always. Don't know why your subscriber's number is not at least tenfold. If you want to dive further into the design philosophy of (german and other) piston aircraft aircraft engines I can highly recommend Calum Douglas' book "The Secret Horsepower Race". But I suppose you know it already.
Thank you for doing the research and answering this question. It has been a curiosity among the community for awhile.
It was assumed to be about packaging but I know of no one who had any source material explaining it
Amazing video. As always, your content is really informative and direct
Gute Arbeit. Sauber recherchiert & verständlich erklärt.
Thank you, you've really put a lot of research into your production.
Really enjoyed your presentation and glad to find it.
What an amazing technological insight - thank you!
Excellent report. Answered many questions from over the decades. Many don't know Porsche had a lot of engineering and advising
going on in early aviation, most associate him only with auto technology. Also, Porsche designs during the war and drive system for the Tiger 1 + 2 Panzer tank suspension and drive systems. He was a gifted man.
Crazy detail and deep Information🤯 👏👏👏👏
Didn't the Germans also have a fluid coupling driving some of their superchargers similar to a torque converter? I recall hearing about something along those lines.
A lot of aircraft used hydrostatic drive superchargers, it was an easy way to control the speed and therefore the boost of the supercharger
Sure, makes sense.. you just need a way to vary the bypass in the coupling and you have what serves as a variable rate drive.
Yes they did which made it a variable speed supercharger though there are reports that it tended to suffer from sludging up.
Awesome content. So much info in such a short video.
About time somebody covered this topic.
Excellent video. Thanks for making this.
Great video, always been fascinated by German aircraft engine technology.
Thank you for this very interesting video.
In fact, all these technical advances were motivated by operational contingencies during successive wars.
The best application is the turbo engine on a majority of vehicles since the 90s.
Excellent research!
Interesting video.
Can you clarify the statement at 4:50 - I don’t see why an NA engine with a higher compression ratio would lose less power with altitude.
This statement does not agree with the famous Gagg-Farrar altitude compensation equation (1934). They tested many engines of various compression ratios and supercharger boost pressures and found that they all closely follow the same linear drop in power with a reduction in air density ratio.
Supercharged aero engines can maintain power at altitude because the supercharger is throttled below their critical altitude, so they maintain their manifold pressure limit below the critical altitude. In other words they are boosting more and more as altitude increases to compensate for the density drop, until they reach their maximal capacity.
Yes, I simplified that a little because that would be enough to explain for another video.
The BMW engine was designed as a so called "Hoehenmotor", so an engine for high altitudes. It had more compression ratio than the competition but also had a special "Hoehenvergaser", so a complex carburettor with 3 different chambers and multiple throttle bodies. The carburettor basically throttled the engine at lower altitude and used its chambers to allow an ideal mixture up until a certain altitude. So it lost less power between high and low flight level than the competition.
Of course, if you just take an engine with higher compression ratio or an engine where the supercharger is always running, they will all lose power with altitude in similar fashion.
As you rightly said, the key is to throttle them in some way at lower level so they keep the same power output up until a certain altitude.
@@BSport320 So it was a naturaly aspirated engine that was knock limited at low altitude?
@@BSport320 Yes, in aviation we call this a flat rated engine.
Quality. Great fascinating topic
This is a great one, very interesting!
One point: the peripheral exit from the supercharger impeller on “Allied” engines does not apply to the Merlin post early models. The exit became central and direct to the inlet from the 45 series, considerably increasing efficiency and output.
Thanks. I love supercharger s. This is a great history. Stay well
Great channel. (I just stumbled upon it.) Great research and delivery. Subscribed!
Welcome aboard!
Insane that a 750 cubic inch displacement engine was like 60 hp
You mean a 12,29L engine
I posted this on another video and hope it’s of interest:
I recommend reading Antony Sutton’s books-
Some of what he revealed was the fact that Standard Oil shipped tons of Tetraethyl to Germany, and the technological exchange(later covered up) for the German Synthetic rubber.
Lots of facts were hidden post war-
Between the wars restrictions had Junkers build planes in the USSR, and they made the first all metal plane.
In the post WWII period, the Soviets acquired BMW and Junkers jet engines, thousands of engineers and scientists and complete Heinkel factories. Siegfried Gunther in fact was the designer of the Mig-15, with Rolls Royce Nene engines the Soviets obtained with “irresistible pressure” and then improved upon.
The same small group of Wall Street Bankers who financed the invasion of Russia to create the Soviet ”Union” to exploit natural resources, implement US Corporations, technical assistance(at extreme profits)also re-industrialized and invested in post 1923 Germany. Sutton’s books are a fantastic source of info(especially from hidden State Department Decimal Files)
Carrol Quigley’s “The Anglo-American Establishment also shows what the English were doing in the post Versailles period, doing a “controlled buildup” and financing of Germany.
The 1935 Naval Agreement where England allowed Germany to build up to 1/3 of the amount of British superiority.
Also of interest was Ferdinand Porsche’s contribution to aviation engines, hemispherical combustion chamber heads, etc.
ITT owned 19% of Foke-Wulf if I recall correctly. Opel was GM owned from 1931-2017, and Ford Factories continued building through and sfter the war in Germany, England, France and as the Gaz in the Ussr-
To say that “things got out of hand” and history is a coverup is a pretty accurate statement-
Businesses go where there is money to be made. That is the capitalist principle.
To read something sinister into this investment is without merit.
Fantastic history.
Great Video!! I enjoyed a lot!!
Thanks! Great video 👍
This video is amazing. Great job
Glad you liked it!
Very good research, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very well explained!
Glad you liked it
Excellent video,, on an interesting subject that doesn't receive the coverage it deserves. I'll be back for more of this.
12:25 - "Don't mention the war!" ;-)
Amazing!!thank you!
Finest video. Thank‘s !
great video,, I love super charger engines.
Excellent. Very interesting, thanks a lot.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A friend of mine (who works with modern turbo and super engines) and myself were trying to figure out why the hell they did this. Thanks, I can finally stop thinking about it lol
Fantastic video, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well done, thankyou! The 90° drive reminds me of the Königswellen-Motors that Ernst Fuhrmann designed for the Porsche 356 Carreras...reliable indeed but only a handfull of people in the world can time the valves on these maestro Type 547 motors!
Those 4 cam Carreras are beautiful. The engine is a work of art, but I truly believe that the engineers just felt like pissing the owners and mechanics off by not utilizing timing marks. They either got really drunk or high and said "Ve will make zis engine so hard to time that it vill require peyote to make it run!"
Very interesting. Danke
Outstanding presentation. Hopefully we get some discussion of the differential compression ratios (between banks) on the later DB 603s in one of your videos.
Wunderbar!!!
First time here, love it... Cheers
Welcome aboard!
EXCELENTE DOCUMENTÁRIO 👍👍👍 🇧🇷
Please make a video on that 4x supercharged submarine engine. looks super cool
Vielen Dank für dieses exzellente Video.
Kleiner Tipp: Du sagst oft "could", wenn du "were able to" meinst. In einem anderem Video sagtest du "special part" oder so und meintest Spezialanfertigung. Eine besseres Wort wäre hier "bespoke" gewesen.
LG, dein Obersturmbahnführer der Grammatik.
Vielen Dank !!
Super,Mega intressant ‼️👍🏻
This is why i love youtube🤗
Glad you enjoyed it!
vielen Dank
Can you make a similar videos on the history of inline 8 cylinders in Garmany? Seems like many old German cars used the layout, but is dead now a days.
Good idea, Paul Daimler‘s straight 8 cylinder design and the transition to 16 cylinders might be a good topic for a future video.
My thought process was that just so happened to be the layout the designers happened to place the supercharger and crankshaft in.
Then as engines got upgraded, no one thought to change the location of the supercharger. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" I would think they would think.
Klasse Video!!
So, the supercharger was something designed for fighter airplanes to reach greater altitude. Did the turbo charger have a similar beginning, or was it created to make automobiles more efficient? This was a great video, glad that YT recommended it.
Thanks! You could say superchargers were used to avoid power loss depending on altitude during a dog fight.
The turbocharger concept was invented in 1905 in Switzerland to make engines more efficient by using some of the otherwise unused exhaust energy.
They were actually designed to get more air into huge industrial furnaces used to melt metals. That’s why superchargers are sometimes called blower.
It’s interesting to see the difference in fuel delivery solutions on aircraft engines I see a lot of blow thru carbs on the German engines and a lot of American engines seems to used draw thru system more
and dont forget the fuel injection systems the german engineers used as well....way better than carburetors
@@ssnerd583 yeah German Bosch seimens are part the reason we have fuel injection today but the massive American Holley carb was quite the engineering feat it had variable venturis and a pumper bowl to run at any angle even upside down and are still used with methanol in tractor pull radials
@@turkeyboyjh1 .....Yes, as an A&P mechanic I had to learn all about all those carbs in school.....very complicated....very tedious to re-build. I never had to do it but have seen some of the manuals for these huge pressure carbs and they look like old school telephone books for large cities...lol Mechanical fuel injection is FAR less complicated.... even with the more complicated electronic systems used today, its less complex than one of those huge pressure carbs.
Love them meaty old engines
Hi, great video. Was wondering, you're obviously German and have access to German language archive material. Have you come across any German research into the application of multi-speed propellers (i.e. changing the gear-reducer speed in flight like changing down a gear in a car to climb a hill) to aero-engines? I have come across one obscure German patent from the early 1930's but so far, nothing else.
there was clutch on inline supercharged engines too.
The current Mercedes V12 car engine has also two spark plugs per cylinder. A spark plug change will need 24 spark plugs.
ich finde er hat frei gesprochen und auch gute bilder verwendet
nah just kidding fire video bro
Thanks.
Dual sparkplugs was mainly for safety. If one magneto failed, the pilot could switch over to just the one to keep the engine running.
Motor à 90o do compressor? Não sabia disso.
When the German war industury was restricted by the allies between the world wars, did racing provide excuse or cover for develop of war technology?
Yeah a lot features on high performance racing engines were developed in parallel with aircraft engines, superchargers turbochargers drysump oiling pumper carbs fuel injection water and methanol injection, electronic ignition control all came from aircraft, hot rodding, drag racing and salt flat racing all became popular when the mechanics and pilots from ww2 got bored of little engines and used what they saw on warplanes, tanks and ships to turn them up
Engines have surely evolved overtime
Seeing 13l engines producing 65hp,
While 1.6 engines now are producing 800+ hp.
Did you mean to say "Mercedes DB600 series..." at 0:35?
Sorry for the question ¿they use supercarger only?
I know the use turbo too 😅
I speak Spanish and it takes me a while to understand the video hehe
+@Crisoleros Los turbocompresores utilizarán gases de escape para hacer girar una turbina y obtener energía adicional. Los motores de la serie DB utilizaban sobrealimentadores mecánicos sin gases de escape. Sólo se probaron prototipos experimentales con turbocompresores y turbocompresores.
This answers the question of Greg form Greg's Airplanes
On the A engine, how did they get the oil to not fall onto the backs of the pistons and sit there?
Dry sump oil system like a race car
I understand all that, but how is it scavenged before it flows down and splashes against the backs of the pistons and walls?
I’d imagine it isn’t as much of an issue as people think - consider in a radial the issue is even worse, and oil WILL pool around the lower cylinders, especially after she’s been sitting for a while.
Then again pushrod engines lubricate so differently than OHV engines, it does make you wonder: I think in general once the engine is running and you have correct crankcase pressures, a dry sump design doesn’t really know or care what’s up or down (at least the way they designed them for fighter aircraft engines.)
The pistons are moving fast, they just fling most of the oil back out of the cylinders again so long as the engine is running. Some did inevitably sneak past the rings of course, which is why the DBs had different compression ratios between the left and right banks (due to crankshaft rotation, more oil went to one side. Oil has low octane rating so that side had to be lower compression to avoid detonation).
Used oil drained from the crankcase through passageways in the cylinder blocks and accumulated in the rocker covers, from there it was sucked up by the scavenge pumps and sent back to the oil tank.
What motor inside yellow bimmer's hood?
Looked like an S54 in an M3 but could be wrong, there are SO many I6 BMWs lol.
Paging @Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles !
I’ve never heard of the treaty of Versailles being called the contract of Versailles. Though I may well be wrong, I’m guessing by the units you use and your accent that you’re not American or British. Is the treaty of Versailles often called the contact of Versailles elsewhere in the world? I’m sure it’s simply a difference in language but it’s something I’ve never heard before so I’m interested.
It was neither a treaty, nor a contract, but a diktat.
Treaties and contracts are entered voluntarily by the parties that agree to same.
A diktat is exactly what it says, a set of rules dictated to the other, defenceless, party.
That Ferdinand guy... Wonder if he ever started his own company!
If the side mounting reduced how much airflow had to change direction compared to the back end mounting, wouldn't a front mount have the straightest airflow? I can see some interference with the propeller; maybe it would have been too much.
Of course a front intake would be great, but that's hard to manage with propeller and the sheer size of these superchargers.
is it me or is RUclips cranking up the ad volume?
commercials will actually widen the mid-range tones to make them sound significantly louder without changing actual volume. It is making your brain focus on and thus perceive the sounds as very very loud.
The world: V engines work. Germany: VERKEHRT HERUM !
The world: Supercharges work. Germany: RECHTER WINKEL !
That's why.
Beide Anordnungen für den Radialkompressor haben ihr Für und Wieder. Großer Vorteil des britischen Konzepts : Ohne allzu große Verrenkungen lässt sich der Lader mehrstufig ausführen.
Warum gibt es keine Keramikkolben, bez. Motoerteile? Weil Keramik, im Gegensatz zum Aluminium, ein ganz schlechter Wärmeleiter ist. Behält ein Motor höhere Temperatur, lässt sich im Brennraum weniger Luft komprimieren. siehe Ladeluftkühler
Would any of the knowledgeable people here explain a story I had heard about the octane fuel additive required to run these high compression engines came from the Standard Oil company of the good old USA and without it the Luftwaffe could not operate.
Thank you for the history lesson. 90 degree supercharger is very German logic. It's worse, but better, through engineering.
"Why were German superchargers until WW2 rotated 90 degrees instead of lining up with the crankshaft?"
107.000 people: *Interesting*
WOW ,How is it possible to name drop as many pioneers of the auto/engine history into just 1 video, these guys must have worn out their slide rules on a weekly basis.
Is it true that the DB engines couldn't run at full power for more than a few minutes?
Almost all aircraft engines had a WEP / war emergency power rating. Mil power was below this; it all varied by engine design, fuel octane available, compression ratio, supercharger type and pressures (ie how hot the charge air was) etc. For the later high-powered German designs they were limited by the capacity of their MW 50 water/methanol injection systems, but bough there were still continuous use limits that were shorter than the total capacity of the tanks I believe.
The German engines NEEDED the MW 50 to achieve acceptable power output due to poor fuel quality, while similar systems on most mature WWII allied aircraft took good power levels and made it even more extreme. Figure a 2800CI radial was making 2,800HP by the end of WWII, ~1hp/cu”, the DB601s were typically half that at around .55. Of course there are many variants for both, but it’s amazing how the fuel quality could allow for such performance advantages, even for “basic / boring Yank” radials. 🤣
What about pre-MW50 versions? Were they limited in their use of full power (i.e. did the engine fail if used at full power for more than a few minutes)?
@@functio1their built quality were higher (plus before June 1941, received a lot of fuel from Soviet) so they could lasted longer, with fuel quality up to 100 octane.
We have a Green blown Bentley in Perth WA.Ex Police chase car.
👍
inline slants are god mod
Because all that power and being under all that cowling, of course it gets hot.
now I can sleep!
thak you great vid germans at the best in engineering
It seems that Alfa Romeo failed to adhere to the left-side, cold-side, driver-side engineering norm. Alfa did it exactly opposite.
And VW Audi has 1.8T and 2.0T engines with intake airboxes on the same side as the exhaust, right above the turbocharger. No idea how that survived the engineering process. The big heat shield can only do so much
@@bryanderksen4448 likely running a high capacity water pump & well designed & well engineeringly developed water cooling circuit - some of the exhaust heat is used near automatically in cold starts/weather to help pre-heat the intake charge, slightly to above an icing level.
There might be historical reasons. If you search for images of pre-war Alfa Romeo e.g. 6C 1500 and other early Italian cars, the steering wheel and steering column always seems to be on the right hand side.
😮😮💪💪
Königswelle.....Kingsshaft.....
Towershaft is a common English engineering term.
@Alfred Wedmore Sorry, nup. I've seen "towershaft" in a number of technical manuals.
Bently never raced supercharged bentlys. It was private racers who did it. W. O. Bently was against supercharging
The "Blower" Bentleys were modified by Sir Henry "Tim" Birkin, as W.O. Bentley did not like superchargers. The "Blowers" were not successful.
BMW was against forced induction (especially in their M cars) foreverrrr, especially late 90s and early 2000s, when they were stubbornly trying to compete with the supercharged Mercedes AMGs.
The BMWs were considered a more “pure” vehicle from a Motorsport and drivability standpoint. Mercedes was more worried about figures on paper and the fact that the old guys buying these things didn’t care about slushbox transmissions and slightly slower throttle response lol.
FI was “frowned upon” but eventually became so commonplace (and emissions/economy basically FORCED you to use it) that by the time BMW caved, everyone thought it was cool.
I’ll forever miss that S54 I6 M3 revving to 8,000 rpm; with the double VANOS it still made impressive power down low too.
МЕ-109😁👍🏻
Why 90? Because some people have trouble to distinguish a 9 from a 6
- "EXPLAINED in Detail"
- 12 minute video.
Pick One.
0:20 Ist das etwa ein Rezept?