Close your eyes and imagine this beast bolted to the back of your seat as you blast down the front straight at Indy. 7000 plus rpm and up on the boost...
When you hear reference to the "The days of the monster Offenhausers", this beast is what gave that Indy era its name. More than 1200 HP at full race boost, nearly broke the dyno at Meyer-Drake in testing when it hit 1400+HP with unlimited boost. That is without modern engine electronics and no intercooler, from a 2.65 L (159 CID) 4 cylinder. The Offy design has no head gasket, and a barrel crankcase with 360 degree support of crankshaft bearings. With no mechanical or design weakness, powerful bottom end torque and long power band that no other engine on earth could match, the Offy-turbo's were invincible in the 1970's. Except against the rule book, which was used to continually throttle Offy power down until other engines (Ford-Cosworth V8 Turbo 162 CID) could run against it. Forced to run mechanical fuel injection, then boost limitations, and finally fuel limitations, forced the Offy out of competition, little by little to make it appear the engine was outdated. European teams would not come to the Indy circuit as long as the Offy was running, because no Euro team had an engine that could run against an unbridled Offy. The Offy-turbo was simply an engine so good it was banned.
Meyer-Drake didnt have a dyno. They used the champion spark plug dyno. Dale Drake is the one that put the turbo on the Offy after Louis Meyer INC. beat the offy with the DOHC Ford. The most real horse power a turbo offy in competition was 1080 HP, some people like to pad that correction factor lol. But yes the offy was a badass!!
@@1234hapy Judging by your name, you may have inside information that the rest of us, "on the outside looking in" may not have. So what is the reality? Some say the Offy was obsolete when the Ford-Cosworth V8 came along. Some say the Offy was simply rule-booked out of racing. For me personally, looking at the Offy rugged construction, it is hard to see it as obsolete, due to the timeless design of the engine and the design's infinite ability to be adjusted. Looks to me as if an Offy, updated to modern 2023 racing, could still run with the best! Thanks for any enlightenment you can bring!
ohhh now dont make me smile that hard I am going to split my face, I am from by auburn Indiana where the company that built the dussys was based, they were cutting edge for their time and solid built engines, back when around here we Were Somebody 100 years ago, now we have many auto parts makers yes and the huge fall auction but its mostly a small city. and the big auction saddly might be going away, rm that bought the park after dean kruse whos father started the first dedicated antique car auctions didn't pay people and lost his auction license, during the great recession, dont belive me ? the people of barrett jackson and mecum auctions were former employees of Kruse international auction company. there is talk of turning it into a sports park, hopefully someone will step up and keep the auction running it brings millions to the area when people come from the world over to see one of a kind and buy really expensive cars and for the acd festival labor day weekend, would not be the same without the big auction so take nothing for granted even bed rock foundational things to a cultures ethos or soul.
Thank you for posting this! I have three book’s about this, Offenhauser by Gordon Eliot White, The Miller Dynasty by Mark L. Dees, & Miller Cars & Biography. I will show my age and say that there are only two motors that bring a smile to my face, the Offenhauser & the Cosworth. Everything else is just a computer. There is just something about motors that just does it, cannot explain it.
Fuel economy rules at the Speedway did the Offy in. It required a lot of additional fuel to make the power and to keep it from burning pistons. The Cosworth DFX could make more power while meeting the required fuel economy. Drake Engineering tried to stay in the game by designing the a V8 called the DT160, but it didn't catch on.
Fuel economy rules PLUS the Offy mandated by rules to run mechanical fuel injection(Hillborn) instead of the electronic fuel injection the Cosworth DFX was permitted. Minus fuel limitations, the Offy could still blow the Cosworth DFX off the track, as was proven repeatedly, even when running the far less efficient mechanical fuel injection. The simple truth is that on a level playing field, the Offy could not be beaten by any European or American V8/V12 racing engine. When Ford threatened to leave the Indy circuit and the European teams refused to run Indy as long as the Offy was on the Indy circuit, the rules game was played to force Offy retirement. "Off a turn, NOTHING can catch an Offy turbo", Al Unser.
@@63DW89A I don't know for sure, but I don't think the DFX had EFI until the 1980's. I remember that the F1 DFV didn't get EFI until 1982. But there is no doubt the Offy was powerful. Until fuel economy and boost limits were introduced, Offys were said to be making 1000 hp. I would love to see a dyno sheet from one built back in the day.
@@andyharman3022 Truthfully, no one knows exactly what went on. The "Offenhauser" book by Gordon Elliot White indicates there was a lot of backroom politics going on to get the Offy out of the way, because Offy dominance kept others out of the game. More in the game means more money pure and simple. However, "Rule Booking" an engine out of racing is never a good idea because it always appears dishonest. It would have been better to use displacement rules to even things up. If the Offy was too dominant at 2.65 L, then drop the Offy to 2.2L, the DFX at 2.65L etc. The 2.65 L Offy turbo was incredibly powerful, and nearly broke the dyno at Meyer-Drake when the engine exceeded the 1400 HP dyno rating and had to be shut down.
@@63DW89A I have the Offenhauser book, but it's been many years since I've read it. The years between the first turbo Offy win in 1968, and the 1973 race, where the high power and big fuel loads where shown to be a safety issue were very intense. After 1973, I think USAC was punch-drunk, trying to respond to the safety issues of the race, and the societal pressure of the Arab Oil Embargo. So the allowable fuel load was reduced, forcing power to be decreased, and mandating I think a 280 gallon limit to go the 500 miles.
@@andyharman3022 You have given an excellent summary of the concerns of the Indy circuit in the early 1970's. The horrific Swede Savage crash in 1973 pretty well illustrated the problems you summarized very well. Even Indy veterans like Foyt and Andretti were getting a bit scared of the brutally powerful Offy turbos that required careful throttle application to prevent spinning the wheels in top gear, as apparently happened to Swede Savage. Meyer-Drake kept pushing Offy power higher, when maybe it would have been best to look at a smaller more controllable Offy displacement that would also have been more fuel efficient. Who knows in reality, but it is fun to speculate and imagine!
Doesn't need balance shafts because the engine has been balanced to turn 6-8000 rpms with ease. They have to put balance shafts in the imports because the factory didn't take the time to balance the rotating assembly right the first time, called high production assembly lines.
@@charlesparr3296 Balance shafts in modern 4's aren't there to balance the rotating assembly at all. They offset the second order vibration in all inline 4's due to the different velocities of the small rod ends/pistons near TDC versus BDC. Flat plane V8's deal with the same thing, and it's built-in to the design.
thanks for this ,wot a stunning engine in looks as well as function ,its a shame they couldnt have made a road version of this or are they very maintainence reliant? feels like we,ve gone backwards in engine design with all this emmissions bullshit
@@coldiceEVO These engines made anywhere from 800 to 1100 hp depending on boost levels. At 1100 hp they didn't last long. Power band was 6 to 8 thousand rpm.
@@bluedog373 Thank you, this is very helpful. Any detail on torque you still remember? 900 HP on 8000 rpm is around 600 lb-ft torque at peak power, but what about peak torque? How did they make a transmission to take 600 lb-ft in the seventies.
Авто/Мото
When you hear reference to the "The days of the monster Offenhausers", this beast is what gave that Indy era its name. More than 1200 HP at full race boost, nearly broke the dyno at Meyer-Drake in testing when it hit 1400+HP with unlimited boost. That is without modern engine electronics and no intercooler, from a 2.65 L (159 CID) 4 cylinder. The Offy design has no head gasket, and a barrel crankcase with 360 degree support of crankshaft bearings. With no mechanical or design weakness, powerful bottom end torque and long power band that no other engine on earth could match, the Offy-turbo's were invincible in the 1970's. Except against the rule book, which was used to continually throttle Offy power down until other engines (Ford-Cosworth V8 Turbo 162 CID) could run against it. Forced to run mechanical fuel injection, then boost limitations, and finally fuel limitations, forced the Offy out of competition, little by little to make it appear the engine was outdated. European teams would not come to the Indy circuit as long as the Offy was running, because no Euro team had an engine that could run against an unbridled Offy. The Offy-turbo was simply an engine so good it was banned.
Offy was basicly european engine. But it was too old design, could never compete with modern engines
@@V8Lenny beat everyone, designed, and built in America, take your ignorance somewhere else.
@@jamesgeorge4874 Yeah!
Meyer-Drake didnt have a dyno. They used the champion spark plug dyno. Dale Drake is the one that put the turbo on the Offy after Louis Meyer INC. beat the offy with the DOHC Ford. The most real horse power a turbo offy in competition was 1080 HP, some people like to pad that correction factor lol. But yes the offy was a badass!!
@@1234hapy Judging by your name, you may have inside information that the rest of us, "on the outside looking in" may not have. So what is the reality? Some say the Offy was obsolete when the Ford-Cosworth V8 came along. Some say the Offy was simply rule-booked out of racing. For me personally, looking at the Offy rugged construction, it is hard to see it as obsolete, due to the timeless design of the engine and the design's infinite ability to be adjusted. Looks to me as if an Offy, updated to modern 2023 racing, could still run with the best! Thanks for any enlightenment you can bring!
Seeing a 1920s design just kill everybody was amazing. This engine, along with the Duesenberg straight 8, were way beyond the chassis that held them.
ohhh now dont make me smile that hard I am going to split my face, I am from by auburn Indiana where the company that built the dussys was based, they were cutting edge for their time and solid built engines, back when around here we Were Somebody 100 years ago, now we have many auto parts makers yes and the huge fall auction but its mostly a small city. and the big auction saddly might be going away, rm that bought the park after dean kruse whos father started the first dedicated antique car auctions didn't pay people and lost his auction license, during the great recession, dont belive me ? the people of barrett jackson and mecum auctions were former employees of Kruse international auction company.
there is talk of turning it into a sports park, hopefully someone will step up and keep the auction running it brings millions to the area when people come from the world over to see one of a kind and buy really expensive cars and for the acd festival labor day weekend, would not be the same without the big auction so take nothing for granted even bed rock foundational things to a cultures ethos or soul.
When the Offenhausers were forced out so was I. I never watched the Indy again, ever!!!. So sad
Four cylinder Offy's with pistons as big as a Quaker Oats container.
Hey V-Tec guys, this is what a 4 cylinder with large balls sounds like.
Yep. None of that Honda shit here..
Lol, V-Tec guys are making 1500 hp, you suck at math.
Thank you for posting this! I have three book’s about this, Offenhauser by Gordon Eliot White, The Miller Dynasty by Mark L. Dees, & Miller Cars & Biography. I will show my age and say that there are only two motors that bring a smile to my face, the Offenhauser & the Cosworth. Everything else is just a computer.
There is just something about motors that just does it, cannot explain it.
This was the "dominant" engine at the Indy 500 for a long time.
Lovely sound ... Think I'll google the NOVI now ... a perennial challenger to the Offy but fragile.
wow! that sounded good though my surround sound!
Thanks! ;)
Fuel economy rules at the Speedway did the Offy in. It required a lot of additional fuel to make the power and to keep it from burning pistons. The Cosworth DFX could make more power while meeting the required fuel economy. Drake Engineering tried to stay in the game by designing the a V8 called the DT160, but it didn't catch on.
Fuel economy rules PLUS the Offy mandated by rules to run mechanical fuel injection(Hillborn) instead of the electronic fuel injection the Cosworth DFX was permitted. Minus fuel limitations, the Offy could still blow the Cosworth DFX off the track, as was proven repeatedly, even when running the far less efficient mechanical fuel injection. The simple truth is that on a level playing field, the Offy could not be beaten by any European or American V8/V12 racing engine. When Ford threatened to leave the Indy circuit and the European teams refused to run Indy as long as the Offy was on the Indy circuit, the rules game was played to force Offy retirement. "Off a turn, NOTHING can catch an Offy turbo", Al Unser.
@@63DW89A I don't know for sure, but I don't think the DFX had EFI until the 1980's. I remember that the F1 DFV didn't get EFI until 1982. But there is no doubt the Offy was powerful. Until fuel economy and boost limits were introduced, Offys were said to be making 1000 hp. I would love to see a dyno sheet from one built back in the day.
@@andyharman3022 Truthfully, no one knows exactly what went on. The "Offenhauser" book by Gordon Elliot White indicates there was a lot of backroom politics going on to get the Offy out of the way, because Offy dominance kept others out of the game. More in the game means more money pure and simple. However, "Rule Booking" an engine out of racing is never a good idea because it always appears dishonest. It would have been better to use displacement rules to even things up. If the Offy was too dominant at 2.65 L, then drop the Offy to 2.2L, the DFX at 2.65L etc. The 2.65 L Offy turbo was incredibly powerful, and nearly broke the dyno at Meyer-Drake when the engine exceeded the 1400 HP dyno rating and had to be shut down.
@@63DW89A I have the Offenhauser book, but it's been many years since I've read it. The years between the first turbo Offy win in 1968, and the 1973 race, where the high power and big fuel loads where shown to be a safety issue were very intense. After 1973, I think USAC was punch-drunk, trying to respond to the safety issues of the race, and the societal pressure of the Arab Oil Embargo. So the allowable fuel load was reduced, forcing power to be decreased, and mandating I think a 280 gallon limit to go the 500 miles.
@@andyharman3022 You have given an excellent summary of the concerns of the Indy circuit in the early 1970's. The horrific Swede Savage crash in 1973 pretty well illustrated the problems you summarized very well. Even Indy veterans like Foyt and Andretti were getting a bit scared of the brutally powerful Offy turbos that required careful throttle application to prevent spinning the wheels in top gear, as apparently happened to Swede Savage. Meyer-Drake kept pushing Offy power higher, when maybe it would have been best to look at a smaller more controllable Offy displacement that would also have been more fuel efficient. Who knows in reality, but it is fun to speculate and imagine!
that wastegate is a monster
Great motor but the noise sometime it's bizzare!
What did this one pull?
Did not have the boost set very high. Nearly 700hp
Does it have balance shafts?
No
Doesn't need balance shafts because the engine has been balanced to turn 6-8000 rpms with ease. They have to put balance shafts in the imports because the factory didn't take the time to balance the rotating assembly right the first time, called high production assembly lines.
@@charlesparr3296 Balance shafts in modern 4's aren't there to balance the rotating assembly at all. They offset the second order vibration in all inline 4's due to the different velocities of the small rod ends/pistons near TDC versus BDC. Flat plane V8's deal with the same thing, and it's built-in to the design.
thanks for this ,wot a stunning engine in looks as well as function ,its a shame they couldnt have made a road version of this or are they very maintainence reliant? feels like we,ve gone backwards in engine design with all this emmissions bullshit
I have seen one of these in a hot rod. 270 cu in. No turbo..
Very expensive...
Any dyno chart?
No printout on this run unfortunately.
@@bluedog373 Any idea on the performance? How wide is the powerband?
@@coldiceEVO These engines made anywhere from 800 to 1100 hp depending on boost levels. At 1100 hp they didn't last long. Power band was 6 to 8 thousand rpm.
@@bluedog373 Thank you, this is very helpful. Any detail on torque you still remember? 900 HP on 8000 rpm is around 600 lb-ft torque at peak power, but what about peak torque? How did they make a transmission to take 600 lb-ft in the seventies.
@@coldiceEVO The motors were only 161 cu in. so more speed than torque. The big hewland transaxles did the job.