The Highest Revving OHV V8 Engine?
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
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/ visioracer
- Timestamps -
00:00 Intro
01:16 Engine regulations
02:11 Motivation smaller builders
03:17 Exploiting a loophole
05:05 A purpose-built race OHV beast
06:38 The sheer power of the engine
06:58 The 1994 Indy 500 progress
- Disclaimer -
This video is fair use under U.S. copyright law because it is transformative in nature, uses no more of the original than necessary and has no adverse effect on the market for the original work.
- Credits -
“We Are Penske Racing” by David Kowal
• We Are Penske Racing
“1996 Monaco Grand Prix: Race Highlights” by FORMULA 1
• 1996 Monaco Grand Prix...
“1994 Le Mans Race Highlights” by 4K RUSTRAIN
• 1994 Le Mans Race High...
“Daydream - Penske-Mercedes at the Indy 500 1994” by Race Day Replay
• Daydream - Penske-Merc...
“Al Unser Sr. 1992 Indianapolis 500 qualifying | Lola T92/00 Buick Indy V6 turbo” by John Sanders
• Al Unser Sr. 1992 Indi...
“"The Champion" Emerson Fittipaldi start engine!(PENSKE-MERCEDES PC23) Goodwood グッドウッド” by 2008uenopanda ueno
• "The Champion" Emerson...
“1993 Penske PC22 "Marlboro" Indycar with Turbo V8 Chevy Engine! - Ayrton Senna tested this car? by MattyB727 - Car Videos
• 1993 Penske PC22 "Marl...
“1994 Indy 500/USAC Engine Controversy That Directly Led To The CART/IRL Split” by Randy's Racing Place
• 1994 Indy 500/USAC Eng...
“Penske PC-23 1994 Indy Car First Engine Start after Restoration” by Ian Castle
• Penske PC-23 1994 Indy...
“Restoration of a Legend Penske PC 23” by American Openwheel Racing
• Restoration of a Legen...
“Ilmor 265E Valve Motion” by DawnTreaderPerfom
• Ilmor 265E Valve Motion
“Al Unser Jr. 1994 Indy 500 Run For The Pole!” by Ernest Miller
• Al Unser Jr. 1994 In...
“1994 CART IndyCar Marlboro 500 @ Michigan (Full Race)” by Randy's Racing Place
• 1994 CART IndyCar Marl...
“1994 Indianapolis 500 | Official Full-Race Broadcast 1080p” by Indianapolis Motor Speedway
• 1994 Indianapolis 500 ... 
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I really miss the days of many manufacturers, thin rule books, and lots of innovation. Group B, the Can Am series, early Indy racing where if you met mimimum requirements, qualified, you raced.
They all suffered the same end, too much money involved drove out the little guy innovators. The same thing happened to tractor pulling during the 1980's. When everyone has relatively the same parts and amount of money to spend, it's fun and interesting to watch.
Technically racing is still 'you meet the minimum rules and you're in'.
It's just the rules are a little more well-defined.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 That's why the golden age is over, and it's never coming back. Mildly interesting spec racers in mildly entertaining races. Yawn.
@@jamesgeorge4874 I don't know, back in the 'good ol' days' you had plenty of boring, noncompetitive races.
Meanwhile series like Trans-Am with relatively strict rules regarding homologation produced great racing.
Agreed. Rules have strangled much of racing. F1 is regulated to the millimeter and Indycars all look and sound the same now making it practically spec racing. It's very difficult to be innovative now, and if a team happens to find a small edge within the rules it gets banned quickly.
Indy cars from the 90's are by far my most favorite race cars. 🙂
My favorite were the post 1965 cars. Rear engine but not yet dominated by ground effects.
Along with the sponsors, Marlboro and Miller the same car
CART RULED!
That engine is legendary! My father in law gave me the book "The Beast," about the engine. But I knew the story. They engine shop was set up in a Penske store room in Pennsylvania and they worked night shifts. Very top secret, very cloak and dagger. An engine like that more than likely will never be made again, especially in an age of more and more spec series. Oh and as a heads up, CART and USAC are said as words not as individual letters! Have a great day. .
Lies - the engine did not comply with USAC rules -it was a cheater
The rules Penske exploited were for STOCK BLOCK engines.
This was not a stock block - far from it.
Penske bribed USAC to get this cheater engine homologated.
You will never convince me otherwise! The reason he kept it a black project!
Penske was a cheat.
CART and USAC are abbreviations, though they're NORMALLY said as words it's just as correct to spell them out (just a lot less common).
Penske Very smart ,but Let's Be Honest ,He Cheats ,and Now ,He Owns the track Too ? ,ask Michael Andretti what He thinks of Roger Penske
Great digging, VisioRacer! The Ilmor 500i is one of the best race engine stories of all time.
For those wanting to know more there is a book by Jade Gurss, called "Beast" that tells the whole story.
There's nothing incredible about it, it was just bigger than all the other engines and was allowed to run significantly more boost.
No matter what, it was pretty cool.
@@PistonAvatarGuy It was the same displacement as the Buick V6's and ran the same manifold pressure. What was incredible was that it only took about 10 months to make the engines and it was done in complete secrecy. Rewind the video and look again at the valvetrain parts and let me know where else you have seen that configuration.
@@andyharman3022 The OHC engines (which is what everyone else was running at the time) had a maximum displacement of 2.65 liters, while the Ilmor pushrod engine was 3.43 liters, almost a liter larger (about 30%) than what everyone else was running. The boost pressure was also 22 percent higher (5.5 bar vs 4.5 bar) than what the OHC engines were allowed to run.
Pushrods with rocker cam followers had been used before, on some very early pushrod engines, but I can no longer remember what those engines were.
@@andyharman3022 Actually, the Honda CG125 engine had pushrods with rocker cam followers, along with a crossflow head and a hemi combustion chamber. It's also considered to be the most reliable motorcycle engine of all time.
I remember watching that race, I was sitting in the Northwest Vista, row KK, seat 25. It was such an impressive race, and the sound of hearing those engines live and the smell of that race fuel made going to the Indy 500 such a special event. 94 was the year. I love Indy 500 and I always will and this video brought back some very good memories for me.
I was there for the Indy 500 sitting in the handicap section inside turn # 2 of the racetrack... it was an awesome experience to watch without my hearing aid on.
@@DD153 back in late 80s or early 90s it was always fun to watch the infield, an area they used to call the snake pit. Definitely entertainment before the race began. My first experience going to that race I was 10 years old, 1989 about a month before my 11th birthday. That really makes me feel old now. Lol
I was fortunate to get back to back tickets in 1994 and 1995 thru a friend. Yeah seeing half naked ladies was even more exciting!!!!
What a great explanation of the 500I! I remember friends who saw it run in person say it even sounded different from the rest of the field- noticeably angrier. Cheers from a currently frigid Indianapolis!
I grew up watching the Indy 500 in the 80's and 90's. I never knew some of these engines (minus the Buick V6) were pushrod design's. I'll have to say, you're an archives legend Mr Visio racer!
The Buick and this cheater engine were the ONLY pushrod engines used at Indy in this era.
@Dennis Merwood it wasn't a "cheaper engine", it was designed exactly by the rulebook. Had it been illegal, they wouldn't have let Penske use it in Indy.
But I know, you Americans really hate it to be beaten by Europeans on what you think is your territory.... 😅
@stscc01 You could say the same for Europeans. There's a reason why AWD was banned in rally until Audi lobbied for its return. Hint: It was because of an American SUV dominating a bunch of European rally cars.
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp: It WASN'T a "cheater" engine. It was a case of Roger and his people reading the rule book and then working to that rule book -- while knowing full well that the engine would ONLY be legal at Indy, since the CART rules didn't have the allowance for stock block engines AND also knowing that the loophole they drove that car through would surely be closed before the next Indy 500. THAT is what racing is about, working to the limit of the rules and hoping that you read the book correctly!
@@patlatorres7000
And that's why he hid it from USAC until the first days for practice in May. He knew dam well it was against the rules.
Against the intent of the rules which were promulgated to encourage inexpensive America production V6's.
Menards Buick V6's met the rules. Penske's zillion dollar Ilmor Mercedes was a "cheater" by any criteria. Disgusting!
And when he revealed it with much hoopla driven by Paul Tracy on the first day of practice - he was betting that USAC would not have the balls to have old "money pants" Roger the Dodger Penske chucked out on his cheating ass!
Penske bought all his trophies! Still does.
Now owns the Speedway. And the Series. And has shown this year he will break the rules with impunity.
THAT is NOT what racing is about my friend!
That Duracell sponeer decal placement on the control arm, right in the middle of the frame... Genius
Great story told. Thanks Visio!
Great video that is a reminder of all of the great stuff that has been built, but not mass produced. Keep up the good work with your videos!
I really miss the Indycar V8 era as much as the Formula 1 V8 era. Though there is lack of great engine builders that need a comeback like Ford, Cosworth, Lola, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Lotus, even Oldsmobile. Hell, even bring Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, Red Bull, Sauberthe whole F1 engine constructor lineup even to compete on being the greatest engine builder for each of every Indycar team and join Honda and Ilmor-Chevrolet. Make Indycar an even competition again.
F1 v10 era best imo. That sound bro.
But early 90s-98 Indy was in a class of its own. Eddy Cheever averaged like 239 at 33 seconds in 1996. No other car in our world's history to this date is capable of that.
Good job on the video - thanks!
Great video!
I did not know any of this. Fantastic video. Thanks.
7:35 jacques villeneuve isn't just some racer he's a F1 world champion
Yes but at the time (1994) he was a rookie, as stated in the video. He entered Champ Car that year and won it in 1995, and entered F1 in 1996 to then win the title in 1997.
Great stuff, thanks!
Indy at that time was interesting for sure. A video on the 215/v6 Buick engine family would be cool too. Great work as always.
I'm with you 100% on this.
Until this video, I had no idea it was used in Indy, but I guess I am not surprised as this engine was impressively used in many platforms.
@@Guns_N_Gears It WAS NOT impressively used in many platforms. Only for one race at Indy.
@Dennis Merwood en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Indy_V6_engine
To be more clarified to my last comment, the buick v6 was used in many platforms. Obviously, the indy engine was not. Hence the word "many", NOT ALL in the 1st comment.
Maybe I should have used Jumbo orange Crayon??
Didn't get to stay for the race, but did watch little Al set on the pole that year.
You could hear the difference, lower rpm, but deeper , more throaty..
It snuck in as a "Stock Block" under the rules. Great video btw!
I really wish there was a category with very basic rules and let the manufacturers go wild in their solutions.
And, of course, seeing these ideas being used in road cars later.
I remember reading about this engine, but it's been so long...watching this video brought me good memories.
Thank you! 👏🏻😁
Great video
Crazy to think lil ol Grandma Buick was pushing such big name car brands to innovation 🏁
Allegedly survived an 11,000 rpm peak.
Thanks for this look in the rear mirror! - Levi in Sweden
You mentioned the engine was used for the season. Not true due to CART rules. Yes, they dominated the ‘94 Cart season because of their Nigel Bennet designed chassis. Not because of that engine. That engine loophole fell under USAC that made it legal for the Indy 500 ONLY. And they exploited the shit out of it. It was a black project under serious secrecy. They even used a Penske trucking warehouse after hours to develop and assemble the engine. The rest of the season Penske ran the legal CART 2.65 DOHC turbo engine that was badged Mercedes Illmor based on the Chevy Illmor engine. Mercedes had a little to do with development that year, but ramped it up in the following years being solely the Mercedes/Illmor.
Lies - the engine did not comply with USAC rules -it was a cheater
The rules Penske exploited were for STOCK BLOCK engines.
This was not a stock block - far from it.
Penske bribed USAC to get this cheater engine homologated.
You will never convince me otherwise! The reason he kept it a black project!
Penske was a cheat!
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Lies. USAC had changed the rules in 1993 allowing "super stock block" engines that didn't have to have production blocks. Brayton Engineering also had designed a super stock block 3.4L V8 pushrod engine in the same period, but never got it to Indy.
@@andyharman3022 You are right. Wonder who "persuaded" USAC to change the rules?
And anyway, technically the Ilmor engine was not pushrod architecture - as the new "super stock block" engines were intended to be.
It was a disgusting move by Penske, knowing that they would not dare to challenge his blatant cheating.
The Golden Rule: He who has the Gold makes the rules.
Just another Series that The Captain destroyed with his deep pockets.
Good stuff. 👍
I believe this was the beginning of the split. Indycars was under CART and the 500 was a USAC event two different rules.
The restrictions on racing wrecks our ingenuity!!
So many smart minds left the sport and will never return!!
There was a story back then, that Ilmor guaranteed that engine would win the Indy 500, or he would pay Penske $1 million dollars. Honestly, that is the kind of challenges that happened back then. But, I think it was just a fantastic story made up! They lapped the field, under green flag conditions. I will never forget that one! They had a 2.5 mile lead on the field. Epic! Great vid. Thanks!!
It's my understanding that Eddie Cheever still holds the fastest RACE lap record at Indy in a Buick turbo V6
That brings back memories. That was Derrick Daly in the first voice over and later Danny Sullivan. Not long after this IndyCar would tear itself to pieces
No, Tony George would tear IndyCar to pieces! CART had a great product that was providing some of the best racing seen world wide, but Tony's ego was too big (and rumors that there was some money passed under the table by Bernie -- though never proven). IRL became basic vanilla racing and IndyCar has never reached that level since!
I loce this type of video about the secret techniques used on motorsport. I don't remember if you already did video about,but i suggest to look at the 2000's WRC cars on the same topic.
Like the secret boost tank of the Focus WRC mount behind the rear bumper,Subaru and Toyota did something similar,regard the airbox :)
Very well!❤
Tony George made the rule and was mad Penske used it against him. And you could tell after the race he was pissed.
I was there!! Right at the bricks.
Everyone craps on pushrods, but they have a lot of positives as long as you arent arbitrarily displacement limited (ie racing regulations or a displacement tax for normal road cars).
If it isn't in the rules it isn't in violation.
0:17
The Indianapolis 500 is *THE* oldest motor sports event that is STILL RUNNING.
Every race that pre-dated it died years or decades ago - and weren't MUCH older.
Arie Luyendyk hold the 4 lap qualifying record at 236 + mph with a single lap of 237+ mph.
I would like to see a two race engine run what ya brung same engine size. You can run any kind of modified engine in only two of the races of the series, the rest of the races to the rule book. Each team can pick any two races but need to notify the race inspection day of race.
The weekend after the engine was unveiled, CART raced at Long Beach. Owners like Betthenhausen and the Andrettis complained about the engine. Then there was Dale Coyne who shrugged and said it's been there for anyone to see in the rules for several years, Roger's the one who thought to take advantage of it.
The rule was intended for STOCK BLOCK production engines - that were inexpensive! Like the Buick V6.
Not zillion dollar pure racing engines.
Penske was the only one with enough money to exploit these rules. And cheat.
Shame on him!
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp they specifically deleted the words "production based" from the previous rule, intending to help Buick or encourage someone like Greenfield. Too bad rules are judged as they are written, not how they were intended.
@@stevenkilsdonk2046 Yep, the rules were arguably poorly written. But it was very clear what their intent was. Penske was the only one who shamedly exploited them with his deep pockets. Greenfield and Menard should have sued Penske.
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp: Why "shame on him"? Roger read the book and made it work! and NO, that engine was an Indy project ONLY. The USAC rules allowed more boost on a push-rod engine, but the CART rules did not. Roger went into that project knowing that it would be a one race engine, which it was. If you can't afford to spend the money required to race at the top level, stay in club racing and don't whine!
@@patlatorres7000
As I've claimed for years, this was purely a vanity project for a rich guy with way too much money!
Who else could spend zillions to shamelessly twist the rules to win ONE race?
Probably spending 10x that of any other competitor.
(And he knew damn well it was a "cheater" - keeping the project hidden from USAC until the first day of practice. Betting that it being chucked out would cause a huge revolt amongst low-information fans. And it would be more trouble than it was worth for USAC to DQ the cars ~ which they should have done.)
How was this a great achievement? How did this benefit Indy car racing one iota?
Except to put one more trophy in a greedy man's showcase? Just another trophy he did not win, but bought!
And the ironic part about the sorry affair, after spending all those zillions ~ only one engine made it for 500-miles.
The rules that allows road going engine into racing is pretty interesting
Roger Penskes Carreer ,filled with skirting the Rules ,and Outright Scofflaw ,who really believes He didnt know His Main crew chief was systematically Cheating ,and One of best drivers ,and ,: Just won another race He owns ,The Track ,The Engine. Co., the Team ,and Now ,The RACE
Thanks again for an interesting video. Chevrolet won't mass-produce a DOHC v8 until 2022. The great 90's lt5 ZR1 was more lotus like Chevy.😉
Ford makes and sells DOHC pickup engines Bob.
Buick v6 still had the Indy 500 pole lap record until 2022 when it was beat by less then 1mph. A 27 year reign
i love how he actually said „jaks villinuv“ 😂😂😂
Yeah, I screwed that one up pretty bad
Bruh, the Jacques Villeuneuve pronunciations killed me 💀
Paul Page botched it badly he pronounced it Jock Vilnuff al season
That beast of engine rule has been around 1985
Back when IndyCar racing was awesome
Indy 500 🏎
Didn't they use Concord to fly parts from the UK?
Yep. They also lied on the custom forms by claiming this was for the Pontiac V8 engines Penske used in NASCAR incase anyone did any snooping.
While the story of this engine is fascinating, it is nowhere near the highest revving OHV pushrod V8. NHRA Pro Stock and Comp Eliminator engines regularly exceed 11,000 RPM and before they put rev limiters on pro stockers to cut costs they were past 12,000 with pushrods at 500 cubic inches of displacement.
They don't have to rev at those speeds for 500 miles. They go for maybe 8 passes at 6 seconds each in a race weekend, then get rebuilt.
7:13
Nope.
Al Unser Jr. was born in 1962, thus aged 32 in 1994. His father Alfred "Al" Unser was born in 1939, not in 1937. Just for the records.
Do I see skeletonized, rocker arms?
Noice
nope; the most incredible Indy 500 engine was the turbine, raced by the STP team in 1967 and 1968. USAC changed the rules to get rid of the 4WD turbines in order to protect the regular ICS 4 stroke reciprocating engines teams. Otherwise, it was likely that eventually the turbine cars would completely domiinate the super speedway races.
5:10 wonder how difficult it is to make an electronically driven valve train....
just need some magnets and hall effect sensors, a microcontroller connected to can bus, and some solenoid and springs, look now you can shave even more weight throwing out rods and camshaft!
probably could finally get an internally balanced engine to hit 30krpm or more and hold dat shit, shit spins so fast you only hear teh harmonics of the engine out the exhaust
throw my vq35de engine bored out to a 4.0 and a supercharger to add more low end , and a turbocharger to make up for top end loss from supercharger, and internally balance dat shit with light weight forged parts, use Titanium-tungsten alloys for internal parts to handle dat extreme stress and heat much better than cast iron or aluminum parts, dat shit in a pathfinder stock can hit 150mph easy if it didnt have a governor on the speedometer set to 120mph
and my pathfinder is a 2 ton suv, now put dat shit in an indy car dat weighs like a 1000 pounds including driver, car, and engine weight! and also gotta account for custom transmission and drivetrain too!
naaaah its easy if they willing to spend money
Good video on an interesting and controversial subject. Please be careful about your facts though. Incorrect information can discredit the rest of your presentation. The birthdates cited for Al Unser Jr and Paul Tracy are way off, leading me to wonder what other errors your videos might have in them. I appreciate your effort, and I want you to protect your credibility.
You are right, but this is not as much as factional error as it is an oversight. It was a copied animation from the previous guys and I did not edit the dates. Huge apologies and mistake that I cannot edit any more. Thank you, I will be more careful next time!
@@VisioRacer Sure. Maybe protect yourself by citing a source on the slides or videos? Keep at it - I know you’ve been doing this for a couple years and I’m sure it’s not easy. I joined your Patreon - I hope it will help a little
@@bobcoats2708 I appreciate it very much!
@@VisioRacer 😁
What ever became of that Canadian rookie who placed 2nd? How did his career go after the 1994 season? Did we ever see him on the podium again? 😂
Not really cheating, but those rules were certainly left very bent out of shape!
The engine did not comply with USAC rules -it was a cheater
The rules Penske exploited were for STOCK BLOCK engines.
This was not a stock block - far from it.
Penske bribed USAC to get this cheater engine homologated.
You will never convince me otherwise! The reason he kept it a black project!
Penske was a cheat.
That's the hard part of writing racing rules. As soon as someone thinks they've written the "perfect" set of rules, someone else comes along and drives their transporter through the loophole that wasn't seen! (very big grin!)
I WANT A HONDA V8
Why does the title say OHV engines but you talk about DOHCs?
Watch the video and you will know why.
7:42 wait, are you talking about *THAT* Jacques Villeneuve?
I wasn’t quite sure with the way you mispronounced his name haha.
You can’t tell me you don’t know him right? He’s the son of the legendary F1 driver Gilles Villeneuve and he is an amazing F1 driver himself!
He was also not only the Indycar champion in 1995, but also was Formula 1 world champion in 1997 and second in 1996 after Damon Hill.
He raced fiercely against Michael Schumacher and was one of the greatest drivers of the 90s!
Racing in 2023 is boring compared to the early to mid 90's
I make it 11.000 rpm.......on the tycoon game automation😁😂
as someone from the midwest... its not on par with monaco
Chevy made the best in the engine
Hey, I can do voice over for you. I only charge 5%
American voice..... 🇺🇸
Best mercedes engine is Honda
Your talking needs to be more clear
Lousy headline. That engine won ONE race. Please compare to the Offenhauser 4 or the Cosworth V8. Discuss.
It was outlawed at Indy after that one race. Ilmor had manufactured 30 more engines, expecting it to be allowed in 1995, but the rule change came and it was done for.
Cart sucked.
No form of racing done in an oval is "on par" with races like monaco, le mans, etc. Must be a joke.
"leeyuft" ... "leeyuft" ... "leeyuft"
thank god they don't lift in Indianapolis.
Penske has always had a talent of bending the rules just short of the breaking point. The loose definition of a "stock block" in the Indy rules at that time only specified a single-cam engine with push-rod-operated valves. Buick-based V-6 engines were also built to that rule and, though very powerful, had reliability issues.