The way to save Midway would have been to have the Gate Room be a separate compartment with an easy to open airlock. Wraith show up, seal the doors and blow the airlock. Boom one Midway station de-wraithified. But then there’d be no episode.
@@Gatetraveller1 the midway while a good idea the fact that like the commenter said had one fault the gate room where the two gates were, we’re too open while the control room was elsewhere on the station it still cause problems for the protection of earth. Anyone like the genii can get to earth easily.
@@jedipadwan20 I’d argue that’s a better design. Keep the two gates in an open space where you can control them from a secure location. Similar to how the SGC control room is behind bullet proof glass and slightly above the gate.
I think the simplest and yet most effective future solution to Midway's security issue; Iris... Iris or shield on both gates (Iris seems cheaper and less energy demanding). SGC was confident in McKay's dialing code between the gate strings for security. Now they of course know no software security can be relied on. But what about the macro issue? We know the gates can transmit simple data between themselves, and they all do it regularly. So it's possible maybe to modify the macro, or add an additional set of code to the commandeered gates. This can be used to check someone's on the other end, and/or schedule dial-ins with and IDC. Hijacking the network's connection to send simple messages. The receiving end can confirm/accept a scheduled arrival. If particularly worried about security. Midway staff can refuse a second arrival when already expecting a Pegasus or Milky-way arrival. Meaning one can't dial Midway from the SGC, be told it's safe, and in the 30~ minutes it takes to get there, there's a Wraith or replicator infestation waiting for you. It *might* also be possible for the macro to forward a message saying from which gate the travelers originally went through. Further increasing security. If Atlantis, or the SGC is unavailable, fails to respond to a send request, or refuses access; like previously, the Alpha and Beta sites were programmed as possible addresses from Midway. Those addresses might need to be updated, minor problem, easily updated. It maybe allows Midway to return for any possible future comics or series' without the "haven't we been here before?" issue. As suggested, further compartmenting the station would also be advisable, that way one doesn't need to vent the entire station just to vent the gate room. Although the control room was a separate airtight compartment in that episode(?). A garrison of marines and/or airmen would also be a requirement. Maybe the return of Midway would be too much of a Deus ex Machina. Much like how ease of access to Earth or Atlantis from either end would have made some episodes impossible without story breaking plot holes. Things like Daedalus, or Prometheus not being around, Atlantis not being able to use a ZPM for travel etc.
I can't believe they didn't think of using any gate security on Midway station. A simple Iris, or forcefield should be standard practice. It may or may not have worked, but at least have one installed!
It would have been pointless. The final gate before Earth or Atlantis is what sends the code for the iris/shield. It would have been the same for midway.
in the show the explanation was that since the gates had all been moved no one would have the gate address's to be able to dial in, outside of the macro so there was no need for an iris, they thought the macro was secure enough to not need an iris.
@@DanielRichards644 Software solutions are never a good idea. There is a reason why the military sticks to hardware solutions whenever possible. No backup to the macro was really dumb imo
Atlantis seemed to always build something like Midway or capture an Ancient ship just to lose it an episode or two later. Also why not have the Midway gate direct to the Alpha site? Then if it's good guys send them to the SGC.
Exactly. Also, why did they never build a massive underground alpha site base equipped with defences and F-302’s in Pegasus like they did in the Milky Way. Our power generators and shield technology could work easily on smaller bases. Also, could also have facilitated the gate bridge. It always seemed to me that the Daedalus was always wasted in Pegasus. They could have been transferring materials for years for a sophisticated Pegasus Alpha Site. Same with the Asgard Beam Weapons, why weren’t they building satellites to harness these weapons for defensive purposes.
its important to note that... because all worm holes are not open at the same time, there is not a direct link between the originating gate, and exit gate. because of this, there is no actual way to do 2 way coms. you COULD do 1 way coms... send a message, let the run happen... shut down the gate, THEN the other side, could dial out, send a signal back... but without direct 2 way coms... you can'd do things like GDO's and wait for authorization conformation.
This midway station put forth several cool concepts imo. 1. We see Pegasus is basically in our local group of galaxies and a neighbor to Milky Way. It’s probably not as close as Andromeda but it is a neighbor. 2. There’s wormhole which is near instantaneous, subspace which is slower but still significantly faster than regular, hyperspace which is slowest but still significantly faster than regular. And now midway station which is a cool concept of taking gates, having them sit with nicely spaced out grid coordinates that hopefully no one dials to (which would be fatal to anyone coming through with a misdial as they’d fall into outer space as macro only runs from Atlantis based on McKay program running in the Stargate network system then) and store and forward auto to next gate. So dial abcdefg and launch McKay program and it will store and cause a dial to abcdffh etc. till its hits midway and at which point reintegrates and dumps buffer out. And repeat again for Earth. Nice and cool They should have put an iris or some emergency separation they could air vent or detach or blow up. Or a force field They also should have put each gate inside air chamber just in case someone got spit out and put sensors and alarms and monitors. Also there should have been special iris codes for midway and constant 2 way video monitoring via subspace once established a journey was in progress. Maybe wraith detectors and such and a much larger midway station with jumpers as well. IMO it was undercooked and had too many flaws honestly. Also I’m sure they’d have lit up midway again despite being blown up. Build a newer more secure and better midway. Also it should have sent people to gamma or beta site first to scan and quarantine and deal with threats like wraith. It was foolish to open earth so easily to auto dials and auto iris opens. They could have also reprogrammed the gates to prevent any injection dials and not accept connects from anywhere else. Tech wise it is a fantastic concept but being the writers have no clue about tech they made a mess of the concept that was spectacular
Galaxies aren't moving slowly through space... they are moving at incredibly high speeds! The Milky Way is moving at approximately 1.3 BILLION miles per hour through space... Not to mention the galaxies rotating.
@@quietearthMT78 it’s all relative. Galaxy motion is rather slow in the grand scale of the universe. So we, as well as the gates between galaxies, will also be moving at the same speed. It’s just a case of keeping the gates aligned properly for the bridge to work.
@@Gatetraveller1 Sure, I understand relative motion being a factor when Stargates are located on planets that are rotating through a galaxy at a constant (predictable) rate. In the case of a midway station between galaxies however, wouldn't that station fall out of alignment almost immediately without being able to travel at a comparable speed?
@@quietearthMT78 I think that would only be an issue if they decelerated the station entirely. Since they come from both galaxies, they would keep the momentum they had while inside those galaxies. It’s not like they would jump to the centre of the void and suddenly have shed all of their inertia. Otherwise that would happen every time they dropped out of hyperspace - the galaxy would continue without them. So I’d assume the same applies to travel outside of the galaxies.
It would make more sense if the gate at the SGC, at the end of the 38-minute window, if there were patterns in the buffer, it would send the patterns back to Midway Station if the iris wasn't opened, rather than open the iris automatically if it wasn't opened manually.
Why would the macro be designed to send a gdo code but not force the iris open but have the iris always open when there is an attempt to disengage the wormhole? Seems slightly more likely to dial somewhere else and spit the buffer out again. Even more likely is the show runners didn't bother to think about it too much.
The GDO code is for authentication, as they wouldn’t want to alter the way the Earth iris operates beyond automatically opening the iris after a set amount of time. It’s all down the the iris being used in the first place, the writers should have never had Walter open it manually. Additionally, if the buffer sent travellers to another gate when the iris wasn’t opened - you risk letting Wraith loose in the Milkyway.
I've been doing some calculations. To travel to Pegasus in a month you have to travel at an insane speed. 36 ½ million times the speed of light. Star Trek's USS Voyager at its top speed would take almost 600 years for the same journey but keep in mind that it can only travel at that speed in 12 hour increments. So, a lot longer. I also figured out that to make Andromeda in about 200 years a Starfleet ship would need to go warp 9.999999975 which still is not as fast as ships in Stargate.
I had a question about Midway Station that you didn't address... why did it need 2 gates? We've seen that Pegasus and Milky Way gates don't seem to have any trouble dialing each other, so why not just have 1 gate for coming and going in the both directions?
Only the Atlantis gate DHD was capable of accepting outgoing and incoming wormholes from an outside network. So for security, they didn’t want to move the crystal that had this command in place. So a chain on both gates had to ferry personal all the way across the void instead of skipping over it.
@@Gatetraveller1 I guess I missed this reply while we were talking on the other video lol Atlantis's gate is the only one in Pegasus that can SEND an 8-chevron wormhole (unless you put the control crystal in another DHD). That was to keep the Wraith from dialing the Milky Way, since they were known to capture and use ZPMs so the power requirement alone wasn't enough protection. But that wouldn't apply to the gate bridge -- it's just a series of short hops over normal gate distances, not an 8-chevron address. Also I didn't think there was any restriction on receiving a wormhole. That's why irises/shields exist. In "Before I Sleep" the Lanteans said that they had blocked all addresses except Earth's to be sure nobody else (especially the Wraith) could dial in, but that was only a temporary lock-out for a special situation. In general, it doesn't matter if a DHD is broken or missing entirely. As long as the gate is intact the wormhole WILL connect. So using just a single gate at Midway Station to connect from both ends shouldn't be an issue should it?
@@John73John the 8 chevron address is unique in connecting only the Earth and Atlantis gate via the crystal in the DHD, so even if it’s a short hop between gates on the bridge - there only exists one secure way to do so: the crystal. They definitely could have had one gate by reprogramming a gate to receive a wormhole from another network, but that makes the gate less dynamic. Say you have someone coming from both SGC and Atlantis heading towards midway. My guess for the two gates being needed is if they attempted to connect to the single midway gate at the same time, it would cause a traffic jam, where one gate has to wait for the other to disconnect and then redial again (which may wipe the crystal patters as the macro is a bit finicky). So having two gates isn’t necessary, but makes the way of life aboard midway a whole lot easier. It also allows for separate macros, which adds security to each galaxy.
@@Gatetraveller1 Ah, that actually makes a lot of sense! That was another thing I was wondering... if it's possible for two passengers to pass each other on the bridge in opposite directions, or if they would "collide" and one would end up wiping the other. You could solve a lot of these issues by making all traffic follow a set schedule, or if there's some emergency that requires unscheduled travel then you'd need to let them know via subspace comm.
@@John73John I’d imagine the macro taps into the gates subspace capability, and checks ti see if anyone is on route to midway, before allowing an outgoing connection to be made. As it would probably wipe out the crystal patterns if two people met up, and like before, there may be traffic issues with incoming wormholes.
Reward is not without risk. The ability to travel between galaxies in such a short period, a distance illustrated by the fact of needing 34 gates. each gate capable of reaching across a galaxy.
new question... We have the asguard 3d printer.. err computer.. its bascially magic. and we have the Tollan Ion cannon designs.. why dont we use the computer to print out ion cannons and fit them to 304s. sure they dont work aginst the anubis modified Hataks. but they should be great aginst wraith ships and might be good en mass aginst Ori stuff? more over.. how do asgaurd harvest resources? do they crush and suck up asteroids with space magic then feed the materials into their matter replicators/printers? if so, how come we dont have a fleet of mining ships around earth gobbling up the asterids and feeding shipyards cranking out warships on the cheap?
Asgard molecule printer: They can probably only rebuild simple things such as small computer parts and food. The Agard beam fitted on the front of the Earth ships does the trick for space battles, and is far more powerful than any Tollan built cannon. Asgard harvest resources: Like in the S4 replicator episode with Thor, we see him teleport in a tray of simple foods. This could be made from pretty much anything, so where they get the material isn’t an issue really. Warships/asteroid mining around Earth: Like before, the Asgard printer won’t work for things like big and complicated ships. They could print each part in sequence, but remember they have to take the time to program the objects new molecule structure into the Asgard computer, which would take ages to calculate even for Asgard tech. To add on that, I don’t think they could just build another printer if they wanted, as it’s far too complex to reverse engineer. As all the printer is, is modified Beam Technology. They probably only have the ones fitted on the Earth ships, and would like to keep them there for food requirements onboard.
@@Gatetraveller1 ya but everything is more powerful than dinky railguns and human missiles. the tollan ion cannons fire cool blue balls of death at shit. cannons are always cooler than beams imo. i want to see hive ships bombarded out of existence by rapid fire pew pew.. remember when the wraith ships blew up that ancient defense satellite? i want that level of ion cannon dakka to blast the wraith.
Rather than trust a third-party software update to not eject you into the void of space, splat you against a closed iris, or simply overwrite your data when the gate gets dialed, I would have preferred a mini-Midway station at each gate along the chain. Simply exit, step to the side, and dial the next gate in the chain. Many times more expensive, but far more reassuring. It would also allow for a traditional radio/GDO signal between links.
You could even still have the macro to chain you through the gates, as I think it’s needed for the precise address dial anyways. I agree though, I wouldn’t feel safe going through the gate bridge on foot. It would have been cool if they used one of the jumpers as a sort of Ferry for people, and explained it away as ‘just in case’.
If the iris was closed wouldnt the opening of the worm hole destroy the iris? Like when they made a "fox hole" when they needed to rescue carter from the super soldier? But when gates are burried then no worm hole can be made because the plot needs it that way. So who knows why not just keep the iris clossed at all times then???
Imagine having 2 midway stations, one of them as it is now, and another with a single gate, with no other gates in between them. Now there is 2 way communications between them when the wormhole is open, and so it's possible to have an iris, at least one 1 side of the original station. Somebody traveling from Pegasus would arrive at the possibly unmanned station with a single gate. From there, they'd open a wormhole to the main midway station, at which point they can do the full real-time authentication (including codes, video, fingerprints, what have you). Or alternativelly, if somebody is especially paranoid, then the transfer between the 2 midway stations could be limited to a spaceship, that would need a couple hours to cover the distance (instead of several weeks). Tere could be many variations of this or other ideas, the main problem is that the security needs to fail or the TV series wouldn't be interesting.
@@matthew8153 yes, were ignoring any extra gates between the Earth and Atlantis and focusing on the place where they connect. The problem raised was that all 15 gates or each side working automatically without the ability to use IDC.
Tbh at the end of the macro I’d have put a holding cycle where if the IRyS doesn’t open the Earth gate would re-dial to a specified point so the travellers could be ejected and observed from a safe distance. Tho that may but r be possible as our the wormhole itself wipes the crystals.
That would work, but then you have Wraith in the Milkyway - off world from the SGC. Plus you can manual dial Milkyway gates so if they knew an address they could escape anywhere and begin culling our galaxy.
I was thinking the same thing, except: If the 38 minutes run out without the iris being opened, just dial down the Milky Way part of the gate bridge in the other direction and send the package back to the midway station. I mean, it's separate dial processes and only 2 gates are connected at a time. There should really be no reason why you wouldn't be able to dial the gate that you were just connected to. @Gate Traveller: Yeah, you can just create normal (event horizon to event horizon) connections in a single section of the gate bridge at a time. The problem would be that for the Milky way leg of the journey, you couldn't use the macro any more, as that only spits you out on Earth. Thus for every connection, you need to have a reasonably good idea of what the gate address of the respective next gate in that known direction could look like. But then all you need is to have a box of air to breathe during the 34 or 17 dialing processes and you need to bring a dialing computer with you. I.e. you need a Puddle Jumper or a Wraith fighter. Sending people back thus won't be 100% secure. But just spitting them out when the SGC is clearly nonoperational is even worse.
@@Pystro The commenters idea was that when the iris fails to open, it redials another secure location within the Milkyway (like the Alpha site or similar), but that comes with the risk of the intruder breaking out via a manual dial if that base was ever abandoned. I didn’t mean they hijacked the Milkyway space gate section of the bridge.
I say ‘proves’ as I was showing two sides of an argument as to how the bridge works, and ‘proving’ which one was correct using the shows own logic, but I get what you mean :)
Had they placed the Pegasus gate just outside range of a Pegasus gate network at a second station with either the Apollo or another ship permanently stationed to act as a taxi say 1 days hyperspace travel.be immune to wraith attack due to them not being able to physically dial the network or even get a ship their due to no intergalactic hyperdrive .on station 2 could build a huge station can hold 500 personnel which have authority to act within certain guidelines independently sending military help where needed (much like placing a aircraft carrier beyond the striking range of hostile nation .
That sounds like it was cost a lot more, not to mention permanently tying up one of your battleships. Part of the reason for building the bridge in the first place is to free up Dedalus from taxi service between galaxies.
@@John73John It sounds like the most expensive use of a limited availability ship possible xD In reality, they would only need to be a minute away from eachother by some form of shuttle. The gates don't appear to be cross compatible with a macro (I could be wrong, there are a few reasons Midway was set up, including quarantine for disease and pathogen control). If the goal is to keep the gates on separate stations, one could rely on a simple sublight shuttlebus per say.
@@GrasshopperKelly @Grasshopper K The range limitation on a gate is because of power requirements. If a gate was only a minute out of range, then the extra power would be something the wraith (or anyone else) could easily come up with.
I don't think the show actually confirmed one way or another whether the 2 gate networks are cross-compatible. Pegasus gates can't dial an 8-chevron address without the special control crystal in Atlantis's DHD, but if you had a Milky Way gate and a Pegasus gate close enough for normal dialing it should work, right? Also Earth's gate dialed Atlantis without needing a special crystal -- just plug in a ZPM, put in the address, and you're good.
As far as needing 2 gates at Midway, I had a discussion about it in this same comment section -- basically, it means travelers coming from Atlantis and Earth both arriving at the same time won't "run into each other" while in the gate buffer, which would cause one or the other to be erased as another wormhole came in.
@@John73John The Wraith themselves aren't *great* when it comes to generating power for the tech (in comparison to other races), beyond the power capacity of some surface installations. They certainly have yet to produce anything close to a ZPM. My point on the original comment was me thinking they were referring to having a taxi at the midway point. Actually, he's onto something. It would be a 1-3 day trip from Atlantis to any gate on the edge of the Pegasus galaxy. It would allow whichever cruiser is meant to be stationed in Pegasus to only leave Atlantis for 1-2 days, instead of 36~ on the round trip. But it would require a second "Pegasus' edge" station. But knowing specifically what we're talking about now, you're also right, the Wraith would likely be able to generate the power needed to get to the galaxy edge station if they were aware of it
@@GrasshopperKelly The wraith have been known to capture and use ZPM's (even going back as far as the original war with the Lanteans they were using stolen tech). But it wouldn't take anything close to a ZPM to just go "a little farther" than normal dialing range. Having a second "Pegasus edge" station as you call it would be more of a security risk -- easier for the Wraith to just fly there and capture it. Atlantis is already heavily defended, so it makes the most sense to have the bridge end there. The only security flaw in the whole design was that the wraith were able to hack the macro at the first gate along the bridge, meaning McKay isn't as good at cybersecurity as he thinks.
First, the round trip on a BC-304 Daedulas class battlecruiser was 36 days (18 one way, see 'The Intruder'). Second irises should have been placed on Midway with IDCs that only opened it from Atlantis or the SGC. This way even if the Wraith manage to hack McKay's macro a second time they wouldn't have the Atlantis to Midway IDC.
The point I made about the Daedalus taking 1 month there and back was just me slightly misremembering. I remembered it took at least a month but mistook that for one trip across. Instant communication is not possible through the bridge so an Iris can only work if there’s a fail safe in place, meaning ultimately an iris is pointless and they’d be better off with a sealed room that can be de-pressurised if intruders come through via hacking the macro.
@@jedipadwan20 that’s exactly my point. The iris on the bridge as a whole is a dangerous idea and should only be used on the SGC end, since they don’t have a choice. The GDO code that opens the Iris while using the Gate Bridge is built into the Macro, so there’s no chance of entering an incorrect code.
@@jedipadwan20 The reason you can't use an IDC is because it's not a single wormhole like it is when travelling within the same galaxy. Remember that the trip consists of a bunch of short hops, with each wormhole connecting one at a time from each gate to the next along the line. So when the final wormhole connects to your destination, you only exist as an energy pattern in the next-to-last gate. You can't enter your code on the GDO, can't see a confirmation that the iris is open, can't decide not to step through if you don't get a response.
I never like the way they engineered this system. I always though it would have been better to have 2 stations in orbit of each galaxy and the bridge in between them. With the stations being at the first and last wormhole before the end. This would mean that to dial Atlantis or Earth you would do it like a normal stargate and put your code through to open the iris. Basically what they had but it ends in a station at each end rather then Atlantis or Earth. This would have fixed all the problems that could arise with it.
I agree. That’s probably how they would have done it but that would mean constructing a new set, which I don’t think they had the budget for at the time.
what they rly should have done is to captured the hasara station from goa`uld and tried to either drag it, or mounted some sort of basic cocpit and engine to it and flew it in between milyway and pegasus and use that to hold 2 gates.. 1 on each side whit walls or forcefields etc doubt goa`uld built the station in hasara sector where it was. bet they built in in orbit or on a planeet and manage to get it there..
The Ancient Database of knowledge is too dangerous to continually look into, with both times jack did it - he barley survived with the help of the asgard. Even when he had the knowledge, he was not evolved enough to fully comprehend it, so whatever invention created from it - died shortly after its use (the gate power booster only lasted a few minutes when connected to the 8 chevron connection). The second invention actually worked, but only because he was interfaced with an Asgard ships supercomputer, that was able to design and understand something from his mind.
@@Gatetraveller1 damn text to speech. It was supposed to say Asgard database. The Asgard gave birth all their knowledge in an easily searchable format. We've seen the Asgard do some pretty amazing things. Including be able to open a gate without locking chevrons or an event horizon. Who knows how far the research went.
@@williamwinder5011 in my opinion, I don’t think the Asgard have delved that far into gate technology, as they seem to much prefer ship based travel and only use stargates when absolutely necessary. There would definitely be major advantages to looking through the database, which I’m sure they would have done instantly upon acquiring it, but nothing too fancy to do with gates. Also, I think the no chevron/kawoosh gate activation can only be done when redialling where you just dialled from - kinda like holding the power levels steady for when they are needed again, without having to go through a whole dial sequence.
@@Gatetraveller1 at any rate they definitely gave a stable power source and the specs to build one in the data base capable of providing enough power to gate from Atlantis to midway station directly.
Yea why the fuck you need to be stuck inside a buffer for 30+mins? When they can just make one big bridge from Atlantis to midway and be there in few sec.
@@ThePianistONE you’re in each gate buffer for about 30 seconds per gate, and are dialled, forwarded and dialled again 17 times. 15 minutes to midway, 15 minutes to opposite galaxy. 30 minute travel time.
@@ThePianistONE if you did that, you couldn’t pass through each of the gates. The Dakara weapon is an exception. It is one gate to all other gates. Multiple exit points with one dialling gate (they don’t all form one big wormhole chain) A string of gates all activated in a straight line could not work for travel, as the event horizon of each gate would prevent the previous gate from connecting. The scenario isn’t possible. What would happen is the dialling gate would create 17 exit points across the bridge, instead of a continual wormhole to midway.
this bridge must be pinpoint other site on milky way in ground.and facility like ancient gate time traveller like in continuum..when is safe..dialing again to earth..easy ok..
Ok.. NEW here so DON'T hate.. I had NO idea you were Scottish.. but I IMMEDIATELY heard Scotty from Star Trek and Carson from Star Gate Atlantis.. sorry for stereotyping but DAMMMMM
The way to save Midway would have been to have the Gate Room be a separate compartment with an easy to open airlock. Wraith show up, seal the doors and blow the airlock. Boom one Midway station de-wraithified. But then there’d be no episode.
I think Midway will be back when the new series eventually comes out. As it will be an easy way back and forth between the two galaxies.
@@Gatetraveller1 especially with Atlantis in the San Francisco Bay, but tbh I’m not holding my breath on a new series.
@@Gatetraveller1 the midway while a good idea the fact that like the commenter said had one fault the gate room where the two gates were, we’re too open while the control room was elsewhere on the station it still cause problems for the protection of earth. Anyone like the genii can get to earth easily.
@@jedipadwan20 I’d argue that’s a better design. Keep the two gates in an open space where you can control them from a secure location. Similar to how the SGC control room is behind bullet proof glass and slightly above the gate.
I think the simplest and yet most effective future solution to Midway's security issue; Iris...
Iris or shield on both gates (Iris seems cheaper and less energy demanding). SGC was confident in McKay's dialing code between the gate strings for security. Now they of course know no software security can be relied on.
But what about the macro issue? We know the gates can transmit simple data between themselves, and they all do it regularly. So it's possible maybe to modify the macro, or add an additional set of code to the commandeered gates. This can be used to check someone's on the other end, and/or schedule dial-ins with and IDC. Hijacking the network's connection to send simple messages.
The receiving end can confirm/accept a scheduled arrival. If particularly worried about security. Midway staff can refuse a second arrival when already expecting a Pegasus or Milky-way arrival. Meaning one can't dial Midway from the SGC, be told it's safe, and in the 30~ minutes it takes to get there, there's a Wraith or replicator infestation waiting for you. It *might* also be possible for the macro to forward a message saying from which gate the travelers originally went through. Further increasing security.
If Atlantis, or the SGC is unavailable, fails to respond to a send request, or refuses access; like previously, the Alpha and Beta sites were programmed as possible addresses from Midway. Those addresses might need to be updated, minor problem, easily updated.
It maybe allows Midway to return for any possible future comics or series' without the "haven't we been here before?" issue.
As suggested, further compartmenting the station would also be advisable, that way one doesn't need to vent the entire station just to vent the gate room. Although the control room was a separate airtight compartment in that episode(?). A garrison of marines and/or airmen would also be a requirement.
Maybe the return of Midway would be too much of a Deus ex Machina. Much like how ease of access to Earth or Atlantis from either end would have made some episodes impossible without story breaking plot holes. Things like Daedalus, or Prometheus not being around, Atlantis not being able to use a ZPM for travel etc.
In the Middle of My Backswing, still one of my favorite episodes.
I can't believe they didn't think of using any gate security on Midway station. A simple Iris, or forcefield should be standard practice. It may or may not have worked, but at least have one installed!
It would have been pointless. The final gate before Earth or Atlantis is what sends the code for the iris/shield. It would have been the same for midway.
in the show the explanation was that since the gates had all been moved no one would have the gate address's to be able to dial in, outside of the macro so there was no need for an iris, they thought the macro was secure enough to not need an iris.
@@DanielRichards644 Software solutions are never a good idea. There is a reason why the military sticks to hardware solutions whenever possible. No backup to the macro was really dumb imo
Atlantis seemed to always build something like Midway or capture an Ancient ship just to lose it an episode or two later.
Also why not have the Midway gate direct to the Alpha site? Then if it's good guys send them to the SGC.
or maybe to a beta site..
Exactly. Also, why did they never build a massive underground alpha site base equipped with defences and F-302’s in Pegasus like they did in the Milky Way. Our power generators and shield technology could work easily on smaller bases. Also, could also have facilitated the gate bridge. It always seemed to me that the Daedalus was always wasted in Pegasus. They could have been transferring materials for years for a sophisticated Pegasus Alpha Site. Same with the Asgard Beam Weapons, why weren’t they building satellites to harness these weapons for defensive purposes.
its important to note that... because all worm holes are not open at the same time, there is not a direct link between the originating gate, and exit gate. because of this, there is no actual way to do 2 way coms. you COULD do 1 way coms... send a message, let the run happen... shut down the gate, THEN the other side, could dial out, send a signal back... but without direct 2 way coms... you can'd do things like GDO's and wait for authorization conformation.
i love this series. and you just answered a question i didnt know i had. thank you lol
What was the question? Thanks
This midway station put forth several cool concepts imo. 1. We see Pegasus is basically in our local group of galaxies and a neighbor to Milky Way. It’s probably not as close as Andromeda but it is a neighbor. 2. There’s wormhole which is near instantaneous, subspace which is slower but still significantly faster than regular, hyperspace which is slowest but still significantly faster than regular. And now midway station which is a cool concept of taking gates, having them sit with nicely spaced out grid coordinates that hopefully no one dials to (which would be fatal to anyone coming through with a misdial as they’d fall into outer space as macro only runs from Atlantis based on McKay program running in the Stargate network system then) and store and forward auto to next gate. So dial abcdefg and launch McKay program and it will store and cause a dial to abcdffh etc. till its hits midway and at which point reintegrates and dumps buffer out. And repeat again for Earth. Nice and cool
They should have put an iris or some emergency separation they could air vent or detach or blow up. Or a force field
They also should have put each gate inside air chamber just in case someone got spit out and put sensors and alarms and monitors. Also there should have been special iris codes for midway and constant 2 way video monitoring via subspace once established a journey was in progress. Maybe wraith detectors and such and a much larger midway station with jumpers as well.
IMO it was undercooked and had too many flaws honestly.
Also I’m sure they’d have lit up midway again despite being blown up.
Build a newer more secure and better midway. Also it should have sent people to gamma or beta site first to scan and quarantine and deal with threats like wraith. It was foolish to open earth so easily to auto dials and auto iris opens.
They could have also reprogrammed the gates to prevent any injection dials and not accept connects from anywhere else.
Tech wise it is a fantastic concept but being the writers have no clue about tech they made a mess of the concept that was spectacular
Also they had the magic powder aerosol that could turn wraith to humans. They should have put that to use if ever attacked by wraith.
Since galaxies are in motion, albeit slowly, wouldn't each gate in the void require periodic adjustments of their positions to remain in alignment?
Yes. They would have something similar to what’s found on space gates to keep them in a straight line (relatively).
Galaxies aren't moving slowly through space... they are moving at incredibly high speeds! The Milky Way is moving at approximately 1.3 BILLION miles per hour through space... Not to mention the galaxies rotating.
@@quietearthMT78 it’s all relative. Galaxy motion is rather slow in the grand scale of the universe. So we, as well as the gates between galaxies, will also be moving at the same speed. It’s just a case of keeping the gates aligned properly for the bridge to work.
@@Gatetraveller1 Sure, I understand relative motion being a factor when Stargates are located on planets that are rotating through a galaxy at a constant (predictable) rate. In the case of a midway station between galaxies however, wouldn't that station fall out of alignment almost immediately without being able to travel at a comparable speed?
@@quietearthMT78 I think that would only be an issue if they decelerated the station entirely. Since they come from both galaxies, they would keep the momentum they had while inside those galaxies.
It’s not like they would jump to the centre of the void and suddenly have shed all of their inertia. Otherwise that would happen every time they dropped out of hyperspace - the galaxy would continue without them. So I’d assume the same applies to travel outside of the galaxies.
It would make more sense if the gate at the SGC, at the end of the 38-minute window, if there were patterns in the buffer, it would send the patterns back to Midway Station if the iris wasn't opened, rather than open the iris automatically if it wasn't opened manually.
Why would the macro be designed to send a gdo code but not force the iris open but have the iris always open when there is an attempt to disengage the wormhole? Seems slightly more likely to dial somewhere else and spit the buffer out again. Even more likely is the show runners didn't bother to think about it too much.
The GDO code is for authentication, as they wouldn’t want to alter the way the Earth iris operates beyond automatically opening the iris after a set amount of time.
It’s all down the the iris being used in the first place, the writers should have never had Walter open it manually.
Additionally, if the buffer sent travellers to another gate when the iris wasn’t opened - you risk letting Wraith loose in the Milkyway.
I've been doing some calculations. To travel to Pegasus in a month you have to travel at an insane speed. 36 ½ million times the speed of light. Star Trek's USS Voyager at its top speed would take almost 600 years for the same journey but keep in mind that it can only travel at that speed in 12 hour increments. So, a lot longer. I also figured out that to make Andromeda in about 200 years a Starfleet ship would need to go warp 9.999999975 which still is not as fast as ships in Stargate.
I freaking love *STARGATE!!* 🚀🌌🤩
I had a question about Midway Station that you didn't address... why did it need 2 gates? We've seen that Pegasus and Milky Way gates don't seem to have any trouble dialing each other, so why not just have 1 gate for coming and going in the both directions?
Only the Atlantis gate DHD was capable of accepting outgoing and incoming wormholes from an outside network. So for security, they didn’t want to move the crystal that had this command in place. So a chain on both gates had to ferry personal all the way across the void instead of skipping over it.
@@Gatetraveller1 I guess I missed this reply while we were talking on the other video lol
Atlantis's gate is the only one in Pegasus that can SEND an 8-chevron wormhole (unless you put the control crystal in another DHD). That was to keep the Wraith from dialing the Milky Way, since they were known to capture and use ZPMs so the power requirement alone wasn't enough protection. But that wouldn't apply to the gate bridge -- it's just a series of short hops over normal gate distances, not an 8-chevron address.
Also I didn't think there was any restriction on receiving a wormhole. That's why irises/shields exist. In "Before I Sleep" the Lanteans said that they had blocked all addresses except Earth's to be sure nobody else (especially the Wraith) could dial in, but that was only a temporary lock-out for a special situation. In general, it doesn't matter if a DHD is broken or missing entirely. As long as the gate is intact the wormhole WILL connect. So using just a single gate at Midway Station to connect from both ends shouldn't be an issue should it?
@@John73John the 8 chevron address is unique in connecting only the Earth and Atlantis gate via the crystal in the DHD, so even if it’s a short hop between gates on the bridge - there only exists one secure way to do so: the crystal.
They definitely could have had one gate by reprogramming a gate to receive a wormhole from another network, but that makes the gate less dynamic.
Say you have someone coming from both SGC and Atlantis heading towards midway.
My guess for the two gates being needed is if they attempted to connect to the single midway gate at the same time, it would cause a traffic jam, where one gate has to wait for the other to disconnect and then redial again (which may wipe the crystal patters as the macro is a bit finicky).
So having two gates isn’t necessary, but makes the way of life aboard midway a whole lot easier. It also allows for separate macros, which adds security to each galaxy.
@@Gatetraveller1 Ah, that actually makes a lot of sense! That was another thing I was wondering... if it's possible for two passengers to pass each other on the bridge in opposite directions, or if they would "collide" and one would end up wiping the other. You could solve a lot of these issues by making all traffic follow a set schedule, or if there's some emergency that requires unscheduled travel then you'd need to let them know via subspace comm.
@@John73John I’d imagine the macro taps into the gates subspace capability, and checks ti see if anyone is on route to midway, before allowing an outgoing connection to be made. As it would probably wipe out the crystal patterns if two people met up, and like before, there may be traffic issues with incoming wormholes.
Reward is not without risk. The ability to travel between galaxies in such a short period, a distance illustrated by the fact of needing 34 gates. each gate capable of reaching across a galaxy.
new question... We have the asguard 3d printer.. err computer.. its bascially magic. and we have the Tollan Ion cannon designs.. why dont we use the computer to print out ion cannons and fit them to 304s. sure they dont work aginst the anubis modified Hataks. but they should be great aginst wraith ships and might be good en mass aginst Ori stuff?
more over.. how do asgaurd harvest resources? do they crush and suck up asteroids with space magic then feed the materials into their matter replicators/printers? if so, how come we dont have a fleet of mining ships around earth gobbling up the asterids and feeding shipyards cranking out warships on the cheap?
probably power requirement or size issue
Asgard molecule printer:
They can probably only rebuild simple things such as small computer parts and food.
The Agard beam fitted on the front of the Earth ships does the trick for space battles, and is far more powerful than any Tollan built cannon.
Asgard harvest resources:
Like in the S4 replicator episode with Thor, we see him teleport in a tray of simple foods. This could be made from pretty much anything, so where they get the material isn’t an issue really.
Warships/asteroid mining around Earth:
Like before, the Asgard printer won’t work for things like big and complicated ships. They could print each part in sequence, but remember they have to take the time to program the objects new molecule structure into the Asgard computer, which would take ages to calculate even for Asgard tech. To add on that, I don’t think they could just build another printer if they wanted, as it’s far too complex to reverse engineer. As all the printer is, is modified Beam Technology. They probably only have the ones fitted on the Earth ships, and would like to keep them there for food requirements onboard.
@@Gatetraveller1 ya but everything is more powerful than dinky railguns and human missiles. the tollan ion cannons fire cool blue balls of death at shit. cannons are always cooler than beams imo. i want to see hive ships bombarded out of existence by rapid fire pew pew.. remember when the wraith ships blew up that ancient defense satellite? i want that level of ion cannon dakka to blast the wraith.
@@TheAngriestGamer. can’t argue with that
@@Gatetraveller1 wouldn’t the ancient replicator weapon count as a complex device?
Rather than trust a third-party software update to not eject you into the void of space, splat you against a closed iris, or simply overwrite your data when the gate gets dialed, I would have preferred a mini-Midway station at each gate along the chain. Simply exit, step to the side, and dial the next gate in the chain.
Many times more expensive, but far more reassuring. It would also allow for a traditional radio/GDO signal between links.
You could even still have the macro to chain you through the gates, as I think it’s needed for the precise address dial anyways. I agree though, I wouldn’t feel safe going through the gate bridge on foot. It would have been cool if they used one of the jumpers as a sort of Ferry for people, and explained it away as ‘just in case’.
another note, they might have gotten the buffer tech from Anubis from the episode "prototype "
If the iris was closed wouldnt the opening of the worm hole destroy the iris?
Like when they made a "fox hole" when they needed to rescue carter from the super soldier?
But when gates are burried then no worm hole can be made because the plot needs it that way. So who knows why not just keep the iris clossed at all times then???
Imagine having 2 midway stations, one of them as it is now, and another with a single gate, with no other gates in between them. Now there is 2 way communications between them when the wormhole is open, and so it's possible to have an iris, at least one 1 side of the original station.
Somebody traveling from Pegasus would arrive at the possibly unmanned station with a single gate. From there, they'd open a wormhole to the main midway station, at which point they can do the full real-time authentication (including codes, video, fingerprints, what have you).
Or alternativelly, if somebody is especially paranoid, then the transfer between the 2 midway stations could be limited to a spaceship, that would need a couple hours to cover the distance (instead of several weeks).
Tere could be many variations of this or other ideas, the main problem is that the security needs to fail or the TV series wouldn't be interesting.
The problem was the distance. The void between galaxies is so vast they had to use over 30 gates as the bridges.
@@matthew8153 yes, were ignoring any extra gates between the Earth and Atlantis and focusing on the place where they connect. The problem raised was that all 15 gates or each side working automatically without the ability to use IDC.
Tbh at the end of the macro I’d have put a holding cycle where if the IRyS doesn’t open the Earth gate would re-dial to a specified point so the travellers could be ejected and observed from a safe distance.
Tho that may but r be possible as our the wormhole itself wipes the crystals.
That would work, but then you have Wraith in the Milkyway - off world from the SGC. Plus you can manual dial Milkyway gates so if they knew an address they could escape anywhere and begin culling our galaxy.
I was thinking the same thing, except: If the 38 minutes run out without the iris being opened, just dial down the Milky Way part of the gate bridge in the other direction and send the package back to the midway station. I mean, it's separate dial processes and only 2 gates are connected at a time. There should really be no reason why you wouldn't be able to dial the gate that you were just connected to.
@Gate Traveller: Yeah, you can just create normal (event horizon to event horizon) connections in a single section of the gate bridge at a time. The problem would be that for the Milky way leg of the journey, you couldn't use the macro any more, as that only spits you out on Earth. Thus for every connection, you need to have a reasonably good idea of what the gate address of the respective next gate in that known direction could look like. But then all you need is to have a box of air to breathe during the 34 or 17 dialing processes and you need to bring a dialing computer with you. I.e. you need a Puddle Jumper or a Wraith fighter.
Sending people back thus won't be 100% secure. But just spitting them out when the SGC is clearly nonoperational is even worse.
@@Pystro The commenters idea was that when the iris fails to open, it redials another secure location within the Milkyway (like the Alpha site or similar), but that comes with the risk of the intruder breaking out via a manual dial if that base was ever abandoned. I didn’t mean they hijacked the Milkyway space gate section of the bridge.
@@Gatetraveller1 Sorry, I meant to say a similar idea, not the exact same one.
3:28 Nice video but using word "proof" in a scifi series is funny :D
I say ‘proves’ as I was showing two sides of an argument as to how the bridge works, and ‘proving’ which one was correct using the shows own logic, but I get what you mean :)
Had they placed the Pegasus gate just outside range of a Pegasus gate network at a second station with either the Apollo or another ship permanently stationed to act as a taxi say 1 days hyperspace travel.be immune to wraith attack due to them not being able to physically dial the network or even get a ship their due to no intergalactic hyperdrive .on station 2 could build a huge station can hold 500 personnel which have authority to act within certain guidelines independently sending military help where needed (much like placing a aircraft carrier beyond the striking range of hostile nation .
That sounds like it was cost a lot more, not to mention permanently tying up one of your battleships. Part of the reason for building the bridge in the first place is to free up Dedalus from taxi service between galaxies.
@@John73John It sounds like the most expensive use of a limited availability ship possible xD
In reality, they would only need to be a minute away from eachother by some form of shuttle. The gates don't appear to be cross compatible with a macro (I could be wrong, there are a few reasons Midway was set up, including quarantine for disease and pathogen control). If the goal is to keep the gates on separate stations, one could rely on a simple sublight shuttlebus per say.
@@GrasshopperKelly @Grasshopper K The range limitation on a gate is because of power requirements. If a gate was only a minute out of range, then the extra power would be something the wraith (or anyone else) could easily come up with.
I don't think the show actually confirmed one way or another whether the 2 gate networks are cross-compatible. Pegasus gates can't dial an 8-chevron address without the special control crystal in Atlantis's DHD, but if you had a Milky Way gate and a Pegasus gate close enough for normal dialing it should work, right? Also Earth's gate dialed Atlantis without needing a special crystal -- just plug in a ZPM, put in the address, and you're good.
As far as needing 2 gates at Midway, I had a discussion about it in this same comment section -- basically, it means travelers coming from Atlantis and Earth both arriving at the same time won't "run into each other" while in the gate buffer, which would cause one or the other to be erased as another wormhole came in.
@@John73John The Wraith themselves aren't *great* when it comes to generating power for the tech (in comparison to other races), beyond the power capacity of some surface installations. They certainly have yet to produce anything close to a ZPM. My point on the original comment was me thinking they were referring to having a taxi at the midway point.
Actually, he's onto something. It would be a 1-3 day trip from Atlantis to any gate on the edge of the Pegasus galaxy. It would allow whichever cruiser is meant to be stationed in Pegasus to only leave Atlantis for 1-2 days, instead of 36~ on the round trip. But it would require a second "Pegasus' edge" station.
But knowing specifically what we're talking about now, you're also right, the Wraith would likely be able to generate the power needed to get to the galaxy edge station if they were aware of it
@@GrasshopperKelly The wraith have been known to capture and use ZPM's (even going back as far as the original war with the Lanteans they were using stolen tech). But it wouldn't take anything close to a ZPM to just go "a little farther" than normal dialing range.
Having a second "Pegasus edge" station as you call it would be more of a security risk -- easier for the Wraith to just fly there and capture it. Atlantis is already heavily defended, so it makes the most sense to have the bridge end there. The only security flaw in the whole design was that the wraith were able to hack the macro at the first gate along the bridge, meaning McKay isn't as good at cybersecurity as he thinks.
Also.. don't hate.. newly subscribed... :)
First, the round trip on a BC-304 Daedulas class battlecruiser was 36 days (18 one way, see 'The Intruder'). Second irises should have been placed on Midway with IDCs that only opened it from Atlantis or the SGC. This way even if the Wraith manage to hack McKay's macro a second time they wouldn't have the Atlantis to Midway IDC.
The point I made about the Daedalus taking 1 month there and back was just me slightly misremembering. I remembered it took at least a month but mistook that for one trip across.
Instant communication is not possible through the bridge so an Iris can only work if there’s a fail safe in place, meaning ultimately an iris is pointless and they’d be better off with a sealed room that can be de-pressurised if intruders come through via hacking the macro.
@@Gatetraveller1 not really if Atlantis didn’t give the right idc or gdoc or garage door opener code then the gate Iris or shield wouldn’t deactivate
@@jedipadwan20 that’s exactly my point. The iris on the bridge as a whole is a dangerous idea and should only be used on the SGC end, since they don’t have a choice. The GDO code that opens the Iris while using the Gate Bridge is built into the Macro, so there’s no chance of entering an incorrect code.
@@jedipadwan20 The reason you can't use an IDC is because it's not a single wormhole like it is when travelling within the same galaxy. Remember that the trip consists of a bunch of short hops, with each wormhole connecting one at a time from each gate to the next along the line. So when the final wormhole connects to your destination, you only exist as an energy pattern in the next-to-last gate. You can't enter your code on the GDO, can't see a confirmation that the iris is open, can't decide not to step through if you don't get a response.
@@John73John that is absolutely spot on
I never like the way they engineered this system. I always though it would have been better to have 2 stations in orbit of each galaxy and the bridge in between them. With the stations being at the first and last wormhole before the end. This would mean that to dial Atlantis or Earth you would do it like a normal stargate and put your code through to open the iris. Basically what they had but it ends in a station at each end rather then Atlantis or Earth. This would have fixed all the problems that could arise with it.
I agree. That’s probably how they would have done it but that would mean constructing a new set, which I don’t think they had the budget for at the time.
what they rly should have done is to captured the hasara station from goa`uld and tried to either drag it, or mounted some sort of basic cocpit and engine to it and flew it in between milyway and pegasus and use that to hold 2 gates.. 1 on each side whit walls or forcefields etc
doubt goa`uld built the station in hasara sector where it was. bet they built in in orbit or on a planeet and manage to get it there..
I wonder if they search the ask our database on their gate research. Because if you watch the show they clearly made some advancements.
The Ancient Database of knowledge is too dangerous to continually look into, with both times jack did it - he barley survived with the help of the asgard. Even when he had the knowledge, he was not evolved enough to fully comprehend it, so whatever invention created from it - died shortly after its use (the gate power booster only lasted a few minutes when connected to the 8 chevron connection).
The second invention actually worked, but only because he was interfaced with an Asgard ships supercomputer, that was able to design and understand something from his mind.
@@Gatetraveller1 damn text to speech. It was supposed to say Asgard database. The Asgard gave birth all their knowledge in an easily searchable format. We've seen the Asgard do some pretty amazing things. Including be able to open a gate without locking chevrons or an event horizon. Who knows how far the research went.
@@williamwinder5011 in my opinion, I don’t think the Asgard have delved that far into gate technology, as they seem to much prefer ship based travel and only use stargates when absolutely necessary. There would definitely be major advantages to looking through the database, which I’m sure they would have done instantly upon acquiring it, but nothing too fancy to do with gates.
Also, I think the no chevron/kawoosh gate activation can only be done when redialling where you just dialled from - kinda like holding the power levels steady for when they are needed again, without having to go through a whole dial sequence.
@@Gatetraveller1 at any rate they definitely gave a stable power source and the specs to build one in the data base capable of providing enough power to gate from Atlantis to midway station directly.
It made sense to me that this didn’t last long as it was essentially a terrible idea
Yea why the fuck you need to be stuck inside a buffer for 30+mins? When they can just make one big bridge from Atlantis to midway and be there in few sec.
@@ThePianistONE you’re in each gate buffer for about 30 seconds per gate, and are dialled, forwarded and dialled again 17 times.
15 minutes to midway, 15 minutes to opposite galaxy. 30 minute travel time.
@@Gatetraveller1 Yea but you can dial all gates at the same time. It was done on Dakara vs Replicators.
@@ThePianistONE if you did that, you couldn’t pass through each of the gates. The Dakara weapon is an exception. It is one gate to all other gates. Multiple exit points with one dialling gate (they don’t all form one big wormhole chain)
A string of gates all activated in a straight line could not work for travel, as the event horizon of each gate would prevent the previous gate from connecting. The scenario isn’t possible.
What would happen is the dialling gate would create 17 exit points across the bridge, instead of a continual wormhole to midway.
this bridge must be pinpoint other site on milky way in ground.and facility like ancient gate time traveller like in continuum..when is safe..dialing again to earth..easy ok..
Ok.. NEW here so DON'T hate.. I had NO idea you were Scottish.. but I IMMEDIATELY heard Scotty from Star Trek and Carson from Star Gate Atlantis.. sorry for stereotyping but DAMMMMM