Perlisten R212 Subwoofer Review: Magic at 1/2 the Price?
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2022
- We were blown away with the performance of Perlisten’s flagship dual-15 3kwatt $9k D215s subwoofer. We wanted to see if Perlisten created similar magic with their new R212s dual-12” 1kwatt more budget-friendly sealed sub at half the price. Check out our detailed written review of the R212 sub with full CEA2010 measurements and Bassaholic Room size rating. In this livestream, we discuss the results with James Larson and Matthew Poes.
Read our Perlisten R212 Review: bit.ly/PerlistenR212
Perlisten D15s: bit.ly/PerlistenD15s
Perlisten R212s: bit.ly/PerlistenR212s
Perlisten R210s: bit.ly/PerlistenR210s
Recommended Headphones:
Focal Celestee: bit.ly/Focalcelestee
Mark Levinson 5909: bit.ly/MarkLevinson5909
Sony WF-1000XM3: bit.ly/SonyIEMs
Recommended Subwoofers:
SVS SB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io/36Pea3a
SVS PB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io/3sreeyk
SVS SB-3000: bit.ly/SVSSB3000Sub
Paradigm Defiance X12: bit.ly/ParadigmX12
Recommended AV Receivers:
Denon AVR-X3700H 9.2CH AV Receiver: audioadvice.io/33XJ2gH
Yamaha RX-A2A: audioadvice.io/3ppWFg9
Denon AVR-X6700H 11.2CH AV Receiver: audioadvice.io/3HsdEou
Anthem MRX1140: bit.ly/MRX1140
Monolith M8250x 8CH Amp: bit.ly/8CHamp
Recommended Speakers:
Perlisten S7t Limited Edition: bit.ly/PerlistenS7tLE
Perlisten S7t: bit.ly/PerlistenS7towers
Perlisten R7t: bit.ly/PerlistenR7t
Perlisten R5t: bit.ly/PerlistenR5t
SVS Prime 5.1 Speaker / Sub System: audioadvice.io/3JZJOt5
Polk R700 Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3C0TK2B
Heco Aurora 700: bit.ly/HecoAurora700spks
Heco Aurora 1000 Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Aurora1000
Klipsch RP-8000F Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3445l4A
Arendal 1723S Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Arendal1723s
Focal Aria K2 936: bit.ly/3zVAxi5
Focal Kanta No2: bit.ly/Focalkantano2
Sony SSCS5 Speakers:audioadvice.io/3td2O0w
SVS Prime Elevation Surround: audioadvice.io/35aZCdR
Audioholics Recommended Cables:
250ft CL2 12AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/2vwS9QH
50ft 10AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/3DeMTT5
Locking Banana Plugs: amzn.to/2ZQt15x
9ft 4K HDR HDMI Cables: amzn.to/2WiIXeD
#bass #subwoofers #hometheater 
Развлечения
Hi, great video! Just a few questions - Do the drivers use cast or stamped baskets? Do the drivers use foam or rubber surrounds? What are the differences between the D212 vs the R212 (other than the amp and extra 10mm extrusion)? Thanks in advance.
Cast frame, I believe its a treated foam surround, but that might be wrong. I will ask. The D212 uses a more robust driver with a larger magnet/motor system, has more linear excursion, better thermal performance, and is an even more linear driver. The amplifier is more than twice the power, but is otherwise similar. Same app and capabilities. The D series is meant to match the S series, R matches R. So beyond that, there is also a better built and finished enclosure. The enclosure walls are thicker and it is even better braced in the D series vs R series. This makes the D series larger and heavier.
There is a fairly significant difference in output below 30hz on the D series, but otherwise they are pretty similar in performance. I don't know that the D series has substantially lower distortion. In fact, We might be approaching the limit of our measurement capability.
Really impressive Numbers, i use an Arendal 1723 1s subwoofer bought it this year, really impressed with it, much better than my previous b&w asw610 subwoofer, in all aspects, in terms of spl it has more than enough for me in my 25m2 room, i never been able to stressed it for music
I have one too, it's an awesome sub indeed. I'd much rather have 4 of those than one Perlisten R212 ;)
When will the follow-up video about the GAIA with the measurements be published?
Between perlisten d215s and jl gotham which one you recommend? Thank you
You guys had a lot of good discussion on the various performance advantages of this design, but references to the market competition all are vague. It would go a long way to increase the value of these review videos if you simply compare measurement plots to relevant competitors. A comparison plot is worth a thousand words.
I replied elsewhere to this. Basically, most good sealed subs have group delay at 20hz of like 30ms or more, this is as low as 10ms. Ported SVS subs like the PB4000 are more like 75-150ms, crazy terrible. Distortion on this is better than most subs within it's linear range. Again, compared to that SVS, we are talking about less than 1% THD in the midbass range, the SVS would always be more like 3% or higher. The Perlisten also stays at less than 2% (really less than 1% most of the time) at all output levels until you really push the limits. Once you push it it rises, but never exceeds 5%. The SVS doesn't have such low limiters so it can be pushed to higher levels of distortion. Not as bas as we saw on the REL, but not as good as this is.
@@PoesAcoustics thanks for taking the time to reply! These are all good discussion points, it would just be great to have the relevant plots shown in the video for comparison.
I agree, I love Audioholics and especially James Larson with his enthusiasm and dedication to deliver the most detailed subwoofer measurements out there (well there once was databass but not much is happening over there these days...)🙌
BUT; they have become kinda boring, mainstream in terms of surrendering to the manufacturers aka not saying much negaitves about pretty much any product they review... If they were to (really, honestly!) compare different subwoofers, they would have to say something negative about one sub and it kind of feels like they would like to avoid that. Sometimes it also feels like the necessary knowledge to properly do that is lacking so I don't necessarily want to insinuate bad intend on the side of Audioholics but sometimes it feels like that...
This common practice in the Audio- world doesn't bring us as consumers much value... we want to be able to make a purchasing decision for the products that we are not necessarily able to asses in our one homes and to do that we need to know hoow a product A compares/relates to product B.
@@PoesAcoustics Well SVS's ported subs always had pretty bad GD at low bass but with the latest subs from SVS, even the sealed ones have pretty bad GD figures
@@floz9718 and that’s fine. These subs may not be for you. Perlisten is seeking to be a luxury oriented product. Not the most bang for the buck.
As for a user not hearing a difference. Well that’s not really a very scientific comparison he did and we know nothing about the conditions. There is no denying that the differences are small. But you are conflating some of the linearity differences. Distortion at max output and distortion at the linear output are two different things. The Perlisten is better at both. Adding subwoofers only reduced distortion at max output, not at linear output. Only a better design can do that.
I would not expect a comparison like this individual made to be very revealing of bass sound quality between these two subs. Both are very good and the differences will be subtle at best for sound. The room and setup will always dominate our perception of bass quality. They matter far more than the subwoofer itself. It would take very controlled specific tests to suss our differences between subs like this. We are talking about a very good subwoofer against an even better one. But given the common designer and manufacturer, the clear differences in parts quality and parts performance, we can’t pretend like no differences exist. Small improvements have always cost exponentially more. That’s just how this works.
And again, Perlisten is a luxury brand, not a value brand. Their value comes from being among the very best performance of any brand with among the best build quality/parts quality at a price at or below the competition. Arendal isn’t their competition. Revel, KEF Reference series, Wisdom Audio. That is who it competes with.
I would love for you to review B&W subs. I remember you looked at the ASW610XP back in the day, but their newer higher-end stuff would be great to have a look at, also because most B&W sub reviews don't do measurements or have any tangible data.
I own a pair of B&W DB1D subs in my rig and they are superb. There are some reviews with measurements, but agree, more detailed reviews would be helpful.
We should talk to SU about this. We haven’t reviewed their subs in quite a while.
As a dealer, I will just reiterate the story I mentioned in which we replaced the DB1D with a Perlisten D212S.
In my opinion, I think the Perlisten is a better subwoofer. The build quality is similar but the Perlisten is a little better. However the Perlisten has much better amps, DSP, and drivers. The B&W has a very good Hypex module but it’s less powerful. Their DSP has far less control over the subs output and it doesn’t have the same kind of power supply and DSP monitoring and integration that ensures the Perlisten is so unflappable.
I am an indirect dealer for B&W products (meaning that a wholesale distributor I have a dealer account with has B&W and I have an SU approval number). I can sell either brand. The margin on B&W is higher. Keep that in mind when evaluating my bias.
But we should review these subs. I agree. It’s a good subwoofer regardless and deserve some attention. I was actually quite impressed when I first had hands on time with them.
Are you going to review the D12S? Its the only sub that would fit my cabinet. Looking at 2 of these or JL Fathoms or E112 or Rhythmik
How does this compare to the Arendal 1723 2V? Same designer, correct?
Would it make any sense mixing a D212 (or R212) with a D15s in a dual sub setup? Or would that be worse than a dual D15s?
Thank you,
M&K Are back and they are killing it. (THE INNOVATORS OF THE SUBWOOFER'S WE KNOW TODAY).
Output aside, does the 212 punch quicker and harder than the 215?
Nice Review. It appears that for a true high end 2 channel system or better, a couple of these subs set in small room setup for the subs would do many systems in virtually any size room proud.
I want this, more then a PB-16...Wonder if XTZ will update their 3x12 then maaaybe that would be the middleway to go...
I'd be curious as to how close the Rythmik G22 Direct Servo subwoofer would come to this beast in overall sound, extension and output? The other subwoofer I'd be curious about is the M&K Sound X12+ Subwoofer given it's a virtually identical design.
The G22 hasn’t been tested in a similar fashion but their sealed 18 has. That driver has more excursion and a more powerful amplifier. The 18 has similar performance to the R212 but with slightly higher distortion in the low end and higher group delay. So a little worse performance. As such I would expect the G22 to be a little worse yet.
I can’t speak to the other product. I’ve never seen one or any tests of one.
@@PoesAcoustics This is not the same comparison. The G22s are dual opposed drivers, the Rythmik 18s are not. That is why this person and someone like myself would like a comparison.
@@mesonto it’s more similar than you would think. The Dual opposed does not cancel distortion. It only cancels vibrations. Not the same thing. There is no sound quality advantage other than in reducing the enclosure from dancing around the room. Push Pull is the only dual driver arrangement that cancels any distortion.
Otherwise the displacement of a pair of 12” drivers is similar to that of an 18” driver.
Without testing the Rythmik we can’t say exactly how it would compare. But given how all the rest of the tested subs performed, it’s fair to say the Perlisten would be a little bit better for a lot more money. From a value standpoint, it’s hard to fault the Rythmik. Ultimately someone looking at one probably wouldn’t be looking at the other.
@@PoesAcoustics G22's: Both 12" drivers are facing out, 18": only 1 larger slower driver (therefore not as crisp), R212: only one driver facing out, the other rattling the floor. Can't help but think that the G22 is much quicker and detailed than the single 18" and would have more output than the R212. (Besides from the R212 dancing around the room and needing isolation not to interfere with the other equipment in the room)
Am I wrong in my assumptions?
@@mesonto the R212 doesn’t dance. There is some degree of vibration canceling as well plus we are talking about a very heavy subwoofer. It’s not a concern.
As for more output. Both have dual 12’s and the Perlisten has 5mm more excursion and 1300 watts vs 800 watts. Why would the Rythmik have more output?
I also believe the idea of the big subwoofer being slow is a myth. I’ve not only not experienced that, it’s not anything that makes any more technical sense. Keep in mind that the motor system of the 18 is a lot bigger than that of the 12. There is no issue with moving that cone. In order to get a 12 in a small box to have enough low bass output (to move the fs down) you need to add a lot of mass. So if you built a 12 to act like that 18, it would have a lot more mass relatively speaking.
The technical explanations for slowness are often related to transient response. But I have never seen anything in an 18” sub that shows any problems with their transient response.
My experience has generally been that really good big subwoofer drivers tend to do a better job cleanly reproducing deep bass. Four 12’s is similar in displacement to a 21” subwoofer, but often when I have heard such a comparison, I’ve found the 21 to actually be the cleaner subwoofer.
Not interested in a new sub but still found this video interesting. Good double act between James and Matthew.
Can someone please explain the difference between group delay and time delay?
Group Delay varies by frequency. Time Delay affects the entire signal and does not affect some frequencies more than others.
@@jameslarson2277 That couldn't be clearer now. Thank you.
I am sure someone will get persnikety and want to criticize what James said as not precisely correct, but I will just say, its practically a very good explanation.
Time delay is more like the overall delay, like latency. If a subwoofer has 10ms of latency, it would actually cause something akin to group delay in a system because it would cause a 10ms delay at the frequencies it reproduces.
But it refers to a kind of distortion in which a musical signal passing through this system has its phase linearity altered with respect to frequency. So you can think of it as a kind of change in the delay and thus phase relative to frequency.
Bandwidth limiting introduces group delay, like a highapss filter. The steeper the filter, the more group delay. EQ that boosts frequencies also adds group delay at that frequency. Aggressively adding boost can add group delay.
Group delay is a subtle distortion (admittedly all distortion tends to be more subtle at lower levels compared to amplitude distortions). It's been described as adding a fuzzy or looseness to the sound of low frequencies. The JND identified by Flanegan in 2005 found that 1.6ms was a good threshold. It has been described in cycles before, but if you look at the research, it seems that our JND is more closely associated to a fixed delay than cycles, it just so happens that this leads to less cycles as you go lower in frequency. The JND at 300hz up to 1khz was like 1.6 seconds, and other work has suggested this holds true down to low bass frequencies. The lowest bass JND's are typically modeled or extrapolated as they are difficult to test. However if true, even the R212 has group delay that is audible, and something like the SVS PB4000 would be insanely audible.
@@PoesAcoustics I'm going to have to read that a few times! Thanks for the detail.
Things like Phase are difficult concepts to grasp. I mean polarity OK but phase? +/-180degs of?! I mean what?!! And so what?! But Matthew, you always seem to do a great job of explaining complex concepts. How about a series on topics that we hear you guys mentioning regularly but don't fully understand?
13:10 I wonder if this is the reason I'm having issues with nulls with my two front Mono 13 THX subs. These are quite long/deep....
They could also be canceling each other out. Try disconnecting one and seeing if that makes a difference.
Is the dual subwoofer dedicated to music?
My 24 year old Velodyne HGS-10X reworked servo subwoofer that I enjoy in my home office setup is claimed to have
In Germany there is a small manufacturer that does still make those: Merovinger.
It's also amazing that they build subwoofers exactly like the customer wants them - and all that for a very fair price! I don't know how long these guys will stay in business though since I can't imagine that they make great money from their sales...
I think you may have meant the JL F series rather than D? Maybe I misheard.
When I said D series, I meant the Perlisten D series. I never said the series of the JL audio. I simply said JL audios top subs were benchmarked for the Perlisten D series. The D series is a better quality line from Perlisten and competes more directly with an JL Fathom.
Would pairing this with bookshelf speakers be overkill?
It depends on your room, listening habits, and budget. If you can afford it, I don't think it's overkill at all.
Most bookshelves need subwoofers so I wouldn’t call it overkill. There are some good higher output bookshelves. Perlistens own R4B or R5M would do very well with this subwoofer. It wouldn’t be overkill, it would actually be a good pairing.
room size, where in the room. corner more bass, center less bass.
movie need more lower bass compare to music
I’m a Rel fanboy and even I’m swayed by this sub’s performance
You should try to hear a Perlisten subwoofer in the future. Better yet if you can hear it back to back with the REL. Especially if you can push it to its limits. I think you will find that the Perlisten is a better sounding product. Lower distortion, lower group delay, quite a bit more output. It ticks all the boxes for an audiophile subwoofer.
I really don’t agree with REL’s approach to protection. The worst sound an audiophile system can make is high amounts of distortion. They don’t limit their subs well and so they are easily able to be overdriven into distortion. It forces you to have to have many more subs to ensure you never hit their limits. The Perlisten locks the driver down such that it will never overload. You will never hear a driver past it’s limit or an amp clipping. It does this without introducing any artifacts or problems of its own.
@@PoesAcoustics yeah, I think you’re right. Hence their 6-packs that they sell. All my subs are Rels and I’d like to try something else. I was going to go with Rythmic but these look great
@@Novilicious I'm a little biased clearly. But I think they are. The Rythmik stuff is really good for the money. These cost more, but you are getting something for that money. A more detailed industrial design with higher quality finish, a better amplifier, even lower distortion, and even lower group delay. Feel free to reach out to me if you want to talk about this more.
@@PoesAcoustics When comparing to the Rythmik subs, would you say the higher distortion and group delay are always noticeable or only when pushed to the subs limits?
@@deankim6687 the Rythmik subs are very good. I don’t know that it would be noticeable. It’s a bit like comparing the acceleration of a Corvette to a Mclaren. One might be a little faster than the other but they both are extremely fast.
Both subwoofers are very good. The Perlisten is a little better.
Is it 1,300 watts and what do they mean by short term?
may be a millionth of a second,
James finally has a good mic 😂👌 that headphone thing is horrendous to the point I can't listen to what he's saying and he talks about stuff I wanna hear lol thanks James 👌
Sorry! I have been thinking about getting a better headset, but I have been hesitating because I didn't think anyone was actually interested in listening to anything I have to say!
For the budget minded home theater enthusiast who can't quite swing $5k for one sub, let alone $10k for a pair, do you think a couple decent 15 inch ported subs that go for under $5k a pair would give anywhere close to the performance of one Perlisten R212? I'm thinking subs Hsu research, PSA, Rythmik, or SVS.
I bet the Monolith m-215 would just destroy these as duals for 5k total price.
I'd be curious to see a comparison of dual SVS PB-4000's for that price, right around 5k for the pair.
@@justinbeamon6624 I think their answer would be that the dual SVS would have more overall performance, but maybe not the same sound quality and low distortion. My question to that is, are the differences in distortion so high that it would be audible, or is it purely something on a graph?
@@Smellslikegelfling Agreed, that's exactly what I'm thinking.
@@justinbeamon6624 We discussed that later outside the video. We believe that the difference in distortion and group delay is actually quite audible. So I would say yes its audible. If that is true is ultimately up to you though, you need to test this for yourself to decide if you can hear it and that it matters to you.
There is plenty of research on things like the JND of group delay and the audible effects of group delay on the LF sound quality. The findings are always fairly consistent, JND is like 2 cycles or less, especially less at lower frequencies, and that its effect is subtle but audible.
I would be careful about using the word performance. SPL is only one metric of SPL and the method we use, CEA-2010, is the best we have, but it is imperfect. Two subwoofers could measure similarly in max SPL, but actually sound quite a bit different in their reproduction of bass. It seems that mechanical noises, port chuffing, etc. all seem to have a more audibly detrimental effect than what effect they have on the CEA-values. These are unmasked distortions, so it may be that these need to be measured and accounted for differently, but the test approach we use cannot deal with that.
I also want to mention that the group delay and the distortion of the R212 is not a little lower than the SVS PB4000, it's A LOT lower.
These are not output drag racers, these are meant for the best cleanest output of bass. A lot of ported subs are really sloppy by comparison. The bass that comes out of these is extremely clean. There are only a very tiny few other subwoofers I've seen that are similar, and they have their own drawbacks. For example, the JTR R1S has similar group delay and distortion performance. It's slightly better in some areas, slightly worse in others. It has more output below 25hz and even lower distortion. On the other hand, it is not as nicely finished, doesn't have the app, the amp is not as well controlled/monitored, etc. Distortion also rises slightly in the midbass and while its among the lowest of any subwoofer on the market, it isn't quite as low as that of the Perlisten in that range.
As for group delay comparisons, the Perlisten ranges between 10ms and 30ms at 20hz, it is far below 10ms above that point. The group delay of the PB4000 is between 70 and 150ms. That is actually terrible group delay performance. It also has very compromised midbass performance, it would take two PB4000's to equal the midbass performance of the R212. Of course, being a ported subwoofer, it has much more sub-25hz output. Of course the R212 is more similar to a S4000, not PB, and the sealed performance is much worse than the R212, as would be expected.
The Monolith 16 THX has very good performance for what it is, but its distortion rises a good bit in the low end and group delay is still a not very good 35 to 60ms. The group delay in the 35ms range is not terrible of course and so this is maybe a better comparison. Still, I think if you hear these two subs back to back playing both within their linear range, you would likely agree that the R212 sounds cleaner/better.
push pull tech from the original M&K in the USA... Jonas Miller and Ken Kreisel.
Definitely should have Matt on more with James.
Hey guys I was wondering if you could send me one of these to try it out. Thanks.
no
@@PoesAcoustics LOL
MK Sound is still the king regarding push pull subwoofers. They still make subs and speaker systems to highest regards. Dan Rømer and Lars Johansen used to work for MK and all of Perlisten products are almost carbon copy versions of excisting MK products. Wonder where they got the inspiration from? :-) MK use Scanspeak drivers on all of their top line speakers and subs, that puts most other brands in the dust. Mk has a Thx Dominous sub, the X15Plus. It looks as Perlisten tried to copy it with their 15" push pull upcomer.
It's not a coincidence that the two sub technologies are almost identical. That's because one of the designers that used to work for M&K also helped to design Perlisten speakers and subwoofers.
@@Smellslikegelfling That´s what I mentioned in my post. Dan Rømer and Lars Johansen both worked for M&K in the past. And brought all their knowledge over to Perlisten. I do oppose to one statement made in the video. That Perlisten drivers and components are far superior to the original M&K version. The M&K sub X15Plus is a 7000$ beast featuring Scanspeak driver units and high quality components. And with an extremely heavy 3 layer cabinet. Most reviews claim it as the best subwoofer ever made. But ok, the guy would make that statement as he makes a living selling Perlisten products 🤣😅
@@janthomassrensen1065 we sell both brands.. the Perlisten D215s will outperform the X15plus... Also the Perlisten D215s was ealier on the market then the X15plus... who is copying who :) Perlisten has much more tech in there amp... i have tested the Perlisten next to a JL Audio G213 mk2... Perlisten is my fovorite..
@@hchifi4678 You may be right in some of your statements. I´m not saying that Perlisten are bad speakers. Just that they copied all their base-tech from M&K that Lars Johansen used to work for before he was bought out. He then went on to form Perlisten and refined all the knowledge he brought over from M&K. That´s why they use the same principals and technologies as M&K but at a much higher pricepoint. Hence the refinement.
@@hchifi4678 at the end of the day it's push pull tech from the original M&K in the USA... Jonas Miller and Ken Kreisel.
Mathew’s description of servo was so off. The amplifier actually does less work because is removing sound signals that would otherwise distort the woofer and so using less power
Not true, feedback systems use power. The amp power is being used to correct non linearities in the response. No free lunches.
@@Audioholics but it doesn’t use more power. Only in lower volumes where it’s pushing the lower frequencies to maintain a flatter response. But at higher volumes it uses the accelerometer feedback to maintain lower frequencies from clipping meaning a sub without servo or a dsp like the Perlisten would waste more power and create more distortion. That’s just from my understanding but maybe I got it all wrong. I personally love how my Paradigm sub 1 uses its DSP to prevent distortion at high levels but at lower levels it gets really low into low 16-15hz
Hi sir
Yamaha servo subs lol but they are form the 90s/2000s
Yeah those were interesting for the money. I believe those were similar to the Rythmik subs in that they used an open loop servo feedback. However their amps weren’t that powerful and their drivers not that good. Within their linear range they weren’t bad, but they were easy to push past their limits.
Should have double stitch
Rythmik F18 sounds better, and with good note-to-note distinctions... The perlisten is great, and also good for those who want to showoff...
How much does this thing cost again? Oh nuts.
Right! It's 7 grand.
@@number1pappy $5 grand.
@@PoesAcoustics were?
@@number1pappy no. The subwoofer we reviewed is currently $4,995.
@@PoesAcoustics ok. I see that on your website it is indeed listed for 5 grand but once you click the buy now link it only sends you to the perlisten website. There is no way to purchase it from their website. I did a broad search online and the cheapest price found was$ 6,995.00 in other words, 7 grand.
I originally was going to ask who the target audience this review was for. Then it hit me ! This isn't targeted to anyone as it's just "speaker porn" ! It all makes sense now. Lol! This is the kind of sub woofer that will make audio engineers blush with excitement 😄. Meanwhile normal people if they watch this too much will lose all interest in their own speakers. If you wind up watching too much you'll wind up in a 12 step program to reprogram your senses to be able to get excited by normal speakers again. 🤣
We are Audioholics after all.
Do keep in mind that the $10,000 D215 has been selling so well they can’t easily keep them stock. It has been more successful than expected. While many can’t afford these subwoofers, there are many who can and for whom ultimate performance is important to them.
“Ultimate performance”? The ultimate definition of a -holic is that you can’t stop at just one. It’s difficult to believe that four of a different and arguably similarly-performing sub isn’t going to outperform _one_ of these things. Sure, some people have money to burn, and we should let capitalism work (to my great benefit,) but still…
@@declanfarber as is the nature with ultra high performing products, there are always going to be much cheaper options that are almost as good. Compared to a Rythmik or Monolith, the Perlisten will be a lot better build quality, better protection in the amp, the app, and still better performance. For people buying this, the build and look is an important factor.
Subwoofers in this price point sell fine. There is a sizable market for products like this. While you are correct that four of a cheaper but very good subwoofer would give better results from a pure performance standpoint, if someone has the cash, four of these is better yet. That’s how this works works. Incremental improvements often cost significantly more.
@@PoesAcoustics Yeah, sure.
bom dia
não entendo como esse sistema pode ser bom!?
não faz sentido os 2 driver anular algo porque ambos estão na mesma direção, deveria estar opostos para haver anulamento!!!!
para mim a unica vantagem que eu vejo é a drive principal ser mais rapido por ter a pressurização positiva provocada pela drive atras, em vez de ter que lutar contra pressão negativa, como acontece no D15, que foi dito num video na net que ele mesmo com 2000w num só woofer não é tão rapido quanto o D215 2x 1500w!!!!
enfim, mas eu acho que esses promenores tecnicos não são tão relevantes, mas sim o investimento face prestação...
então a minha questão é comparar um Perlisten D212 ou D215 a dois subwoofer selados de diametro e potencia equiparada, ou seja dois monitor audio Athra W12 versus perlisten D212 ,
ou dois subs Anthra W15 1500W versus um sub Perlisten D215 3000W ?
nos 2 casos temos 2 woofer de 1500w , ambos selados e do mesmo diametro de 15" e de preços totais quase semelhantes...
então qual o melhor investimento, 2x Antrha W15 , ou 1 perlisten D215 ??
os melhores cumprimentos.
You should try devastator 21". With 1000w it is flat from 22hz to 60hz @ 130db. Above 60hz u need to eq. I have 4 of them and i can get +- 1db from 20 to 80hz after eq. The mid bass quality and tactice respose is out of this world! The only caveat they are 168cm tall, 85cm wide, 80cm deep. Cabinet's weight is around 400lbs each
Yeah obviously not a comparable type of product. The customer for one won’t be the customer for the other.
Unfortunately we can’t test and review such large subwoofers.
Demoed the REL S812, SVS SB-3000 then the Perlisten R212s……Wow. Obviously not comparing apples with apples in terms of sub, not at the same dealer and therefore different rooms and different supporting components but still….Wow. I’m now looking to sell a kidney to raise $$$$$
You guys really dropped the ball on the whole “delay” thing. Incorporating these subs into an “audiophile purist” system is not remedied in any way by the delay settings. All that’s doing is adding even more delay. There would still be no ability to delay the MAINS which is what would actually allow them to truly time align with the subs. So no, none of these settings built into the perlisten can take the place of what a preamp with bass management and distance settings built in (like an Anthem STR for example) can do. You can of course move the subs 12+ feet in front of the mains, which, absolutely zero people will do.
Doing the delays in a preamp in the digital domain is always the best way. However, you most definitely can add delay to a close by sub using the Perlisten app to compensate IF you only have 1 sub out with fixed delays from your processor. I do this ALL the time with great success and it shows in the steady state REW measurements when all the subs + mains are measured together.
Our comment about delay was related to a different issue. If you had two subs, one up front and one in the rear. Let’s say the rear subwoofer is 1ms farther away than the mains and the front is 2ms farther away. The. The delay in the sub would address this.
What you are referring to applies if the sub has high latency that exceeds the distance difference or if the sub is placed closer to the listener. If places in the corners that typically wouldn’t be the case.
@@PoesAcoustics The PEQ and time delay opens the way for using software like MSO to help integrate multi-subs.
In the bass region would you really want to use all 10 bands or is that overkill? I use MSO and never sure the max number of bands to use. It's tempting to do lots but then MSO generates some quite narrow corrections and I wonder how beneficial that is.
Thanks
@@asx1248 My answer to this would be to separate what MSO is doing to typical approaches to bass correction. Under most circumstances I would probably not suggest using all 10. There if you really need them, but making things too smooth is often more aesthetic than audible.
As for MSO, while its degree of smoothness/flatness may also incorporate some aesthetic fixes (meaning things that look good but don't necessarily reflect audible improvements), there is no way to use it differently. Ignoring the high Q corrections could lead to poor results. MSO is actually changing the EQ for each individual LF source in order to directly address the effect of the reflections causing the mode. It's a more complicated approach than the more common one in which all LF sources are phase/time aligned and globally EQed. This approach has the potential to lead to greater spatial consistency and smoothness than some other approaches. However, I would not be comfortable leaving out any of the EQ bands MSO suggests simply because they are too high Q.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for confirming that using more bands won't necessarily result in an audible improvement. An MSO user can select how many bands they want and yes, once the choice on quantity has been made, I applied them all. It was just I found the more bands you allow, the higher the Qs you start to get which made me wonder if this would actually be making much difference and you've given me the answer there. MSO does seem to give good results though, anyone going for a couple of subs like this Perlisten should try it. After using MSO with I 6 EQ bands I got a seat to seat variation from 20Hz to ~200Hz of +/-2dB (according to REW) across my sofa. Not a huge listening area but still a seat to seat variation even Gene might be proud of! The time delay delay in the Perlisten also important if using MSO though MSO'S delays don't seem to have much if any correlation with physical distances.
Yes it is isobaric. LoL
Yeh, you ain't gonna be owning a Denon or Yamaha and have one of these..😂
No hi level No thank you ...
LOL High level subwoofer connections are stupid for all situations unless your preamp doesn't have line level outs.
@@Audioholicsso thats RELs take on things? Any particular reason you dont rate that approach. I’m new and interested in learning
@src6665 The best way to integrate subs into a system is using line level connections and digital bass management in your AVR. Speaker level should only be used if your preamp doesn't have a sub out and bass management options.
This sub is pricey, nothing about it is "cheaper" for $4995. Nice sub, but pricey, complicated. I would consider buying it if it were in the $2K to under 3 k.
Go with the Arendal 1723 2S or 2V.
This company really needs to make a more affordable line akin to the 700 series of the Bowers Wilkins. Perlisten's current pricing line is-in with the 800 series whose prices have tripled-quadrupled over the past 12-14 years so they are amazingly expensive speakers..
This sub is also beaucoup bucks when the B&W DB1D costs $6,000. It might be better or equally good (I would not know) but it's not affordable if it costs as much as B&W's most expensive sub.
The subwoofer is a lot cheaper. I think you mixed up the R212 with the D212. The R212 is $4995, not over $6000. The D212s is $6995.
Yes it is expensive, but they are a brand new company and their goal wasn't to make affordable gear. It was to make the best gear and to compete in that same market where the B&W 800 series competes. This kind of performance cannot be achieved at those lower price points, so making such a product would inevitably mean a lot of compromises.
Yeah, I just brought up B&W into the mix because they are about as expensive as it gets.
To your point about their price point and performance, the old B&W 703 was reviewed by a few people who had also reviewed the 801 or owned them and one reviewer's comments were "I didn't feel I was missing the extra $12,000" and Andrew Robinson called the 703 a speaker worth several times its price. So if B&W could do it with rounded wooden cabinets, why do you think that Perlisten cannot?