Hey guys! What basics????? You didn’t say anything about mast to keel connection, size of wire needed, amount of metal exposed underwater, the pros and cons of bonding metal fixtures together…. I don’t know a lot about lightning protection and I didn’t learn anything about how to protect the hull and the people. All you talked ago was how difficult it was to protect DC electronics. Please put out a basic info session!
There are things out there that are showing very strong progress in this area....Such as EMP solutions cmce-55 it has been used around the world in marine, commercial applications, buildings. You might be able to tell me what you think of something like this.
First, we are not lightning experts at BoatHowTo. We have based our module on the leading lightning protection standards on the assumption that these are written by experts. Second, the EMP Solutions device looks very much like a modern variant of a “lightning dissipator”. I have seen several of these over the decades that have made similar claims which have not held up in practice. Third, when I was commissioned to clean up the ABYC’s lightning standard a couple of decades ago (multiple changes over the years had made it linguistically clumsy) I recruited a team of PhD lightning experts to help with technical questions. They were unanimous in their opinion that lightning dissipators do not work. So, I am skeptical, but as I said I am not an expert so maybe there is something new here that really does work… It looks to me as if the EMP device has a connection to ground in which case if hit it would likely still operate as a conventional LPS. - Nigel
The protection of electronic resources within a GRP yacht is a very difficult thing. The military (Navy) spend many millions protecting sensitive electronic resources within a steel warship. I believe that one of the best methods of protection of electronic devices on board is to have the ability to safely sail the yacht using time tested method of sextant, time piece and paper charts. Bruce
What happens if Lightning strikes close to a boat. Say a few metres. Is a currant likely to find a path to the boats electronics through the boats ground. ???
This is definitely a possibility. But even without any connection to ground (for example in a fully isolated DC system), there is a high risk of destroyed electronics from a nearby strike. This is because the extremely high voltage differences within microseconds induce currents in nearby metallic objects. You can reduce the risk with surge protection devices (SPDs), but it is very hard (if not impossible) to fully protect onboard electronics. We talk about SPDs and other means of internal lightning protection in our "Advanced Marine Electrics" module on the topic.
Bonding for electronic devices and equipotential bonding for corrosion prevention for non-electronic metal parts do (in the best case) prevent the risk of lightning damage to the electrical system (in particular if they are sized according to the standards for lightning protection and thus fulfill the double role). See our advanced module on grounding systems: boathowto.com/courses/grounding/ The issue is that lighting current (either through direct strikes or through induction) can find its way into the DC or AC system and it is very hard to reliably protect the devices with surge protection devices. We give an overview about this in our lesson on internal LPSs: boathowto.com/course/internal-lps/ - Jan
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Connecting the mast to a grounding plate more or less straight below it is one thing and usually the first step when installing a lightning protection system. But then you still need to connect all substantial metal hardware such as shrouds and stanchions to avoid side flashes. And then there is internal lightning protection to protect your electrical system and the electronics, which is very hard to do reliably. - Jan
Thanks for the feedback, that is a good point. I am not that used to doing interviews yet, but I'll pay attention to it when we record our next season. - Jan
Hey guys!
What basics????? You didn’t say anything about mast to keel connection, size of wire needed, amount of metal exposed underwater, the pros and cons of bonding metal fixtures together….
I don’t know a lot about lightning protection and I didn’t learn anything about how to protect the hull and the people. All you talked ago was how difficult it was to protect DC electronics.
Please put out a basic info session!
So what did we learn!
There are things out there that are showing very strong progress in this area....Such as EMP solutions cmce-55 it has been used around the world in marine, commercial applications, buildings. You might be able to tell me what you think of something like this.
First, we are not lightning experts at BoatHowTo. We have based our module on the leading lightning protection standards on the assumption that these are written by experts. Second, the EMP Solutions device looks very much like a modern variant of a “lightning dissipator”. I have seen several of these over the decades that have made similar claims which have not held up in practice. Third, when I was commissioned to clean up the ABYC’s lightning standard a couple of decades ago (multiple changes over the years had made it linguistically clumsy) I recruited a team of PhD lightning experts to help with technical questions. They were unanimous in their opinion that lightning dissipators do not work. So, I am skeptical, but as I said I am not an expert so maybe there is something new here that really does work… It looks to me as if the EMP device has a connection to ground in which case if hit it would likely still operate as a conventional LPS. - Nigel
The protection of electronic resources within a GRP yacht is a very difficult thing. The military (Navy) spend many millions protecting sensitive electronic resources within a steel warship. I believe that one of the best methods of protection of electronic devices on board is to have the ability to safely sail the yacht using time tested method of sextant, time piece and paper charts. Bruce
What happens if Lightning strikes close to a boat. Say a few metres. Is a currant likely to find a path to the boats electronics through the boats ground. ???
This is definitely a possibility. But even without any connection to ground (for example in a fully isolated DC system), there is a high risk of destroyed electronics from a nearby strike. This is because the extremely high voltage differences within microseconds induce currents in nearby metallic objects. You can reduce the risk with surge protection devices (SPDs), but it is very hard (if not impossible) to fully protect onboard electronics. We talk about SPDs and other means of internal lightning protection in our "Advanced Marine Electrics" module on the topic.
Did the lightning blow out the entire system because everything was networked together via a bonding wire?
Bonding for electronic devices and equipotential bonding for corrosion prevention for non-electronic metal parts do (in the best case) prevent the risk of lightning damage to the electrical system (in particular if they are sized according to the standards for lightning protection and thus fulfill the double role). See our advanced module on grounding systems: boathowto.com/courses/grounding/ The issue is that lighting current (either through direct strikes or through induction) can find its way into the DC or AC system and it is very hard to reliably protect the devices with surge protection devices. We give an overview about this in our lesson on internal LPSs: boathowto.com/course/internal-lps/ - Jan
can't you just run a conductive strip linking the mast directly to the water?
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Connecting the mast to a grounding plate more or less straight below it is one thing and usually the first step when installing a lightning protection system. But then you still need to connect all substantial metal hardware such as shrouds and stanchions to avoid side flashes. And then there is internal lightning protection to protect your electrical system and the electronics, which is very hard to do reliably.
- Jan
😍😍😍😍
Let Nigel talk without responding "mhm ya". Very distractin.
Thanks for the feedback, that is a good point. I am not that used to doing interviews yet, but I'll pay attention to it when we record our next season.
- Jan
@@BoatHowTo You do a good job.
Agree
Yes it’s totally annoying. 😏
Mmm. Ya. Not too specific.
Wow, how can you talk so long and still not address the issue, besides saying it’s complicated.
Pay attention
Mhmm. Mhmm mhmm mhmm mhmm