Under $1000 for a Lulzbot SIDEKICK :: First Look 🤟
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The SIDEKICK is the latest 3d printer from @Lulzbot3D and this is my first look from the Midwest RepRap Festival (MRRF). What are your thoughts on their new 3d printer?
lulzbot.com
SUPPORT! 😍
▶ 3d.pn/patreon
▶ www.floatplane...
▶ buymeacoff.ee/...
▶ www.ko-fi.com/...
GEAR! 🎥🎦📷
Glowforge ▶ 3d.pn/glowforge (aff)
Prusa ▶ 3d.pn/prusa (aff)
Puget Systems ▶ 3d.pn/pugetsys...
Slice Engineering ▶ 3d.pn/slice
MATERIALS 🦇
Printed Solid ▶ 3d.pn/printeds...
FilamentOne ▶ 3d.pn/filamentone
Amazon ▶ geni.us/shopat... (aff)
Matterhackers ▶ 3d.pn/matterha... (aff)
Proto Pasta ▶ 3d.pn/protopasta (aff)
Nikko Industries 3D Printable Models ▶ bit.ly/3lK0WHi
THE TEAM! 🤟
The Website ▶ the3dprintingn...
Sean Connelly on Patreon ▶ / theseanconnelly
David Tobin on Instagram ▶ / david_tobin
--------------------------------
Find Me Socially!
--------------------------------
Twitch: / joeltelling
Twitter: / joeltelling
Twitter 3DPN: / 3dprintingnerd
Facebook: / 3dprintingnerd
Instagram: / joeltelling
Instagram 3DPN: / 3dprintingnerd
Discord: / discord
--------------------------------
Want to send me something?
--------------------------------
3D Printing Nerd
PO Box 55532
Shoreline, WA 98155
USA
Music in Episodes Comes From:
Epidemic Sound - 3d.pn/epidemics...
Future Vega - futurevega.sou...
Audio Micro - www.audiomicro....
FTC Disclaimer: A percentage of sales is made through Affiliate links
![MISSING: SLIM SHADY [Expanded Mourner’s Edition Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh8qgHrOO1g/mqdefault.jpg)
Regardless of what my opinion is on the price itself, it's a bit disingenuous to market this as a "sub $1K printer",
especially considering the target audience have never owned a Taz (or any printer for that matter).
The base price has no print head or controller included. Adding them pushes the true price way above $1K.
Clearly marketed as a 'US Made' 3D printer for people who prefer that regardless of price.
Yeah, but how many people is that, really? Walmart didn't get to be the #1 retailer in the US by having their products be US made.
Don't get me wrong. It's a great principal. And Lulzbot is a company built on principals. But economically not all regions are made equal when it comes to manufacture. Heck, do you think their stepper motors are made in the US? Of course they're not. They're buying them from China like everyone else. Same with their boards and switches. The belts and aluminum extrusions might be made in the US, but they're probably cheaper bought from bulk from China.
Now, personally I would rathe we lived in a world where all regions were equal economically, and "US Made" meant you weren't paying as much for shipping. But since that can't be accomplished with anything less than a worldwide dictatorship, and James Bond keeps blowing up all willing candidates, this is the world we live in.
Yup, and for those of us who are disgusted with the US ATM, it's an equal turn off.
@@3dpprofessor Boards are coming out of Tennessee :) ultimachine.com/pages/about-us
@@Martial-Mat more disgusted than with China? Ok.
@@3dpprofessor A lot of US companies and government agencies have directives to source US-manufactured when possible. John Deere is much more likely to buy a $1000 US-manufactured printer than a $300 Chinese-manufactured printer.
Couldn’t help but think it sounds so odd to hear build volume dimensions in inches instead of cm’s
What are norms and standards? Yeehaw intensifies.
I know, get with the rest of the world, mm for the win!
I like the configurator concept. The pricing however is not to my liking. Granted its made in the USA which does make competitive pricing hard. I wish them lots of luck.
Agreed. I was mildly excited when they said it would be priced affordably but apparently they still think they're Apple. I'd be much more inclined to get a Prusa with a higher build volume and better price.
@@JenovaDragon and generally better everything else, too..
@@JenovaDragon Apple doesn't make their products domestically
@@jacobmostoller6080 I meant Apple as in quality. They're not on par with them to charge the price like they do.
@@jacobmostoller6080 hence why Apple is even worse imo, paying slave wages to build products systematically designed to be non repairable, non upgradable, proprietary boxes full of proprietary screws and selling them at obscene "luxury" prices. Woz (the brain behind 🍎) left because Jobs (the marketing mouthpiece 🍎) wanted to impose arbitrary restrictions on the expandability of the Apple II and Apple III. Sorry for the rant, I'm just still baffled at how do many people see him as some kind of hero or idol, not necessarily anyone here.
It looks like Lulzbot tried to enter a niche that's already dominated by Prusa in terms of reliability and support, but failed to offer a competitive price. It doesn't fit in the entry level market and for a print farm, Prusas are cheaper, if not "smarter" (system checks, etc). Besides, why the tilted extrusions? Is it just to look cool? I can see that making maintenance harder for the end user as nothing actually meets up in a squared manner. Still, maybe they'll offer something different in the future that will make their printers stand out more in certain areas, but other than that, I think they might've missed the spot.
Lulzbot when they rotate their extrusions: "I'm not like those other girls, I'm quirky! I'm different!"
I think the big niche the lulzbot fits is for educators in the US. A lot of school districts require purchases only from companies in the US. So they'd still be able to get an ender, but they aren't able to buy a Prusa as you can't purchase from a US distributor.
@@TheWaldowski Yup. Or in some cases they require maintenance options, which only Lulzbot provides (they will take back a machine for a fee and repair it). I'm just hoping the move from Aleph to new management doesn't push them down the path of MakerBot...
I would rather build a core xy for that price
The motion system uses notched V-wheels that ride on the point of the angled extrusions. I don't think they described that well enough in the video but it is a fairly critical part of the whole function of the printer.
Setting the printer aside and not even considering there is no bang for buck value here, what concerns me is the claim to be “US Made.” Assembled in the US I’m fine with, but calling it made in the US when a substantial amount of the components are imported goes against (at least as I understand it) both FCC and FTC regulations.
Maybe I’m wrong- but I Would really like to see a BOM breakdown on component origin to substantiate that claim.
There are many loopholes to claim 'Made in America' on the box. Some of the parts are 3d printed and thus obviously that can easily (comparatively) be made in the US by a 3d printer company.
If it's assembled in America it qualifies. Though usually on the box or paperwork they will have small print that states origin of components. In addition there are more loopholes for where it's assembled such as being made in American territories.
That being said, I'm fine with it. Most of the common manufacturing and marketing norms feel quite a bit scummier in comparison.
@@happninmojo please see the FTC’s rules on this; specifically the second example under Qualified Claims here which is fairly comparative:
www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#qualified
Example: An exercise treadmill is assembled in the U.S. The assembly represents significant work and constitutes a "substantial transformation" (a term used by the U.S. Customs Service). All of the treadmill’s major parts, including the motor, frame, and electronic display, are imported. A few of its incidental parts, such as the handle bar covers, the plastic on/off power key, and the treadmill mat, are manufactured in the U.S. Together, these parts account for approximately three percent of the total cost of all the parts. Because the value of the U.S.-made parts is negligible compared to the value of all the parts, a claim on the treadmill that it is "Made in USA of U.S. and Imported Parts" is deceptive. A claim like "Made in U.S. from Imported Parts" or "Assembled in U.S.A." would not be deceptive.
15 $ Display cost over 100 bucks? Okay 👍
I think the idea of customization and modularity is great! In addition to your camera/lens analogy, higher end bikes generally come without pedals because its expected the rider will have a personal preference or already have shoes that use a specific clip system and will add their own pedals.
All that said, I think charging $125 USD for an LCD screen and click wheel is a little obscene.
As a product developer, I'm really struggling to see the need or want for this printer. Nothing shown here can justify the price of this machine, it is simply just a 'me too' product. They have changed the extrusions 45 degrees, that is not enough of a differentiation.
There is one case I'm aware of where Lulzbot is a good choice: schools and businesses without in-house experts. Lulzbot is one of very few companies that allows you to send in a printer for service. This doesn't really seem like a great fit for that though... All we really want is a Mini 2 with a spring steel removable bed and a fixed slicer...
Its made in America that means made in America pay and benefits and health insurance and American rents.that's why most things get made in China.That also why the US will never be able to beat china in terms of manufacturing. When you Pay your workers a dollar a week you can sell stuff cheaper. shrugs.. To be fair I aint paying those prices...0.0
I agree with you it’s too expensive for the price the z axis is belt driven the printer is 3d printed but the price is overpriced by $400 I think they should have a kit for $785
@@syber-space I am fixing a Taz 5 from my old high school and it is a bad printer to get, even a ender 3 could run circles around it and have better quality. To many issues with bad cooling causing heat creep and part quality to be not great. Best professional printer for schools are PRUSA, Ultimaker and maybe even Dermal or creality,
@@mannytheengineer4513 That would be competitive
To be honest, unless these would absolutely blow away a Prusa (Mk3s or Mini+), I see zero reason to go with it over a Prusa. I mean, they're not cheaper, they don't look to be of better quality, and the number of "add-on options" that increase the price by hundreds of dollars feels super bait-and-switch to me.
I dont think anyone wants "the most 3d printed printer"
I. WANT. IT. NOW!
You don't understand the significance of a printer that a large percentage of it is manufacturable by another printer like it. Look up theory of self-reproducing automata or something.
I have talked to the president of lulzbot when i was at AMUG and I strongly believe that Lulzbot is in the best hands. I look forward to the sidekick and what lulzbot does next.
I really think Lulzbot needs to address their Cura fork if they want to compete head-to-head with Prusa for new customers. The biggest draw for me to get a new Lulzbut is the tool head swapping since I have a few already.
I use PrusaSlicer with my LulzBot machines - but I agree about the Cura fork.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.
I feel that if this printer was complete with a basic tool head, magnetic build surface, and lcd screen for the advertised $795 it would make a much more compelling argument for itself. But as it is, it feels like you're having to pay extra for things that should be standard, especially for a printer targeted at first time buyers.
Lulzbot support is unlike anything I've seen! may not sound like it's a big deal, but definitely something to consider!!
Yeah... I had the exact opposite experience with them. Perhaps its because im only an individual that had a Mini 2...
At that price point, I think they need a bigger draw than "Made in America!" The customization options are nice, but IMO not something their target demographic -- first time printer buyers-- will even know what to do with. You think I knew the difference between an E3Dv6 and a Mosquito or a Super Volcano when I first started?
After reading a lot of the comments, I think there are some good points, and some missed the mark.
First. Yes, for the price, the toolhead, LCD, and filament sensor should be standard. Flexible bed an option? OK, but understand that at this point in the 'at home' 3d printer development, it should be standard as well.
Next. Price. Yes, its high. Yes, you can get like 10 Enders for the same price. BUT! What everone seems to be missing is you can't pick up the phone and call Creality when your Ender doesnt print. You can with Lulzbot. That level of support and staffing is not cheap and needs to be backed into every printer. Same with Prusa. You can email them, wait a few days for a response and then have to go back and forth; you can also try your hand at the online forum.
Last. 'Made in USA'. I agree that is probably very misleading. Ill agree with @PracticalPrinting for now as I do not have enough knowledge on the country of origin for the components used by Lulzbot, but I am willing to bet that not all of the components are made in the USA.
Also Last. In come cases, the certifications matter. For instance, my office would not let our Prusa printers be plugged in, until they had a certified powersupply. Prusa DOES NOT supply a power supply that has the required certifications (again, this is for MY office, yours may not care). Looking on the Lulzbot page, their products ARE certified.
So, for the price difference, you get actual support 5 days a week from a real person, it is Assembled in the USA, the components are certified, and the frame is a beast.
Their stated goal of 50% of customers are new to 3D printing is lofty, and probably misguided. This product is very much a print farm, semi professional/professional, makerspace type of machine. Something that is reliable, strong, hard to mess up and when you do, you have real Tech Support to talk you thru troubleshooting and repairing.
Tell me again how Lulzbot should be racing to the bottom to compete with the Ender.
^This
Prusa MK3S forever! Absolutely crazy price for those printers.
Plus Prusa support is 24/7 and Lulzbot support is unresponsive for us normal people.
The point has been raised, price is a no go. They offer nothing more unique or better than similarly priced machines that are proven reliable and from companies that haven't went out of business before.
Thank you for sharing about the TAZ SideKick Joel!
Your energy and good vibes were awesome in person at MRRF2021, our whole team appreciated it. After the long lockdown, it was great to get out and connect with everyone face-to-face. The entire team here in Fargo is excited about the TAZ SideKick's release and we're happy that you dove into some nuances of the TAZ SideKick.
It is a machine we've worked hard on, will continue to hone, and we're thrilled our efforts resonated with you.
We genuinely appreciate everyone taking the time to share their feedback; as we value input from our community!
Virtual high five!
I have to agree with you about Joel's energy and vibes! Great video overall. There definitely seem to be some concerns in the comments over the pricing compared to similar level products in the market. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and if you folks have some videos or other data for the community to look at to understand the cost differential, I for one, would like to see that info.
Despite my own comments about the pricing, I'm rooting for you. I think there's something there.
Personally, it's just what I need. Modular, portable, durable, and works out of the box. And don't forget, fantastic customer support. I already bought one. An unpopular opinion it seems, but one I hold nonetheless.
What do they do better than a Mk3s+ for like half the price if you kit the lulzbot out with a display and a good toolhead?
e: okay, you mention the mk3s later, but still... at least 200$ more (if you compare to the fully assembled, which is fair for professionals, but I would think interested makers would buy the kit prusa) and you have a way smaller eco system
e2: and the mini is much worse, compared to a prusa mini as well... 300€ more at least...
To be completely fair...if I read the config correctly: It's only about 50% more if you're comparing apples/apples (i.e. similar build volumes and pre-built, though I wasn't able to actually select the 747 yet as you can't order one until later this month. So, I simply added the $200 extra quoted for the larger unit).
Having said that, the difference in cost is sufficient to add multi-material handling to the Prusa via the MMU. Knowing that, I agree that you've got to show me the value for that extra money. The Prusa is already at a fair premium in the market. I say that as a very happy Prusa MK3s+ owner, BTW. I paid a premium to get the known service and build quality and am happy with that choice. If I'm already getting solid build quality and market leading customer service, then show me what else I'm getting for an even more premium price. As an American, I am certainly bullish on a product built on the US and am willing to pay a small premium for that. I am not willing, however, to pay a 50% premium price over an already premium level product, just for the made in the USA factor on its own.
Basically, for the cost of the Sidekick 747 (closest build volume match for the MK3s+) loaded with the closest match for head, build plate, etc... I was able to get the MK3s+, multi-material handling, and 10 assorted 1Kg spools of PLA & PETG filament. It's a hard sell.
I DO, however, really like the notion of building easy head-swapping and more granular configuration up-front. I also like the Dell-like notion of being able to purchase some additional warranty time.
In the end, there IS room to be convinced in my mind. However, I think LULZBOT has some significant convincing to do here. I'd really need to see something that really shines on the LULZBOT in a head-to-head comparison of the offerings in this price point to be convinced.
@@DeliberateGeek i think the price difference is almost entirely the location, as in CZ labor and parts are incredibly cheap, and that's how Prusa manages to keep their prices relatively low compared to other printers.
@@FAB1150 That may well be. I'm not really commenting on the cause, simply the implications of the cost differential. It might even bring into question the choice to 3D print as many of the parts as they do. Is it possible that a different manufacturing technique would reduce both the material and labor costs? I am not a manufacturing expert, so I won't get into any details in that regard, but it does raise a valid question. I will point out that they are aware of the market and the value proposition that their competitors bring in. This product is being targeted at a market that is more budget conscious than their other products appear to be targeting, so that has to be accounted for.
It will be interesting to see how much market share they can capture, and what, if any additional value they can articulate.
@@FAB1150 Czechia is part of the EU and far from its poorest member state. As the former industrial heart of the gone Austro-Hungarian monarchy it has almost 2 centuries of industrial heritage. Labour costs there are well below those of let's say Germany but they are way and beyond those in China. Compared to the US however, there is certainly a sizeable cost advantage. Keeping up with the Chinese competition is a tough job even for Prusa. That's the reason Prusa invented the Prusa Mini, which gets closer to the Chinese competition, sacrificing build space for that, while upholding its great out of the box print quality. Still, many people would say Prusa isn't worth that substantially higher price than let's say an Ender. I wouldn't go as far but competition is tough and getting tougher.
@@DeliberateGeek Printing parts is an advantage if you want to stay highly agile and flexible, with updates to the design. Injection molding straight jackets you and makes you slow. That said, it scales much better and also can achieve higher precision (and better durability). Generally, the larger the parts get the harder it will be to make the economics work for 3d printing.
Awesome video, Joel! I took home the green Lulzbot Sidekick 289 and have been printing with it since MRRF. I posted a few videos of my review on my channel if anyone wants to get a closer look at this machine. My conclusion is that the 289 is going to be a hard sell in the market for the price, however the 747 is a good competitor to the Prusa MK3s. For new users that value US based support, including phone support, email, etc. which is the target market I think this is a good option. Anyone that is already in the Lulzbot Ecosystem may also find this printer a nice addition to their farm. High uptime is a benefit (easily swapping toolheads in case one jams, etc.). You can also easily swap between printing 2.85mm or 1.75mm if that is something that makes sense for your situation. Looking at the comments there are a lot of strong reactions to the price, and I agree it is a bit high and not everyone will find the features worth it. It will be interesting to see where this machine goes. I am glad to see a little more competition in the premium $1000 printer space. (Posting comment again- was getting an error earlier.. Sorry if this is a duplicate)
My first MK3 kit that took me a day and a half to assemble it But I did learn a lot about my machine and it being my first one. A year and half years later, bought another MK3 kit and it went together in less than a day an marveled at the small tweaks Prusa made in its updated design. Now I'm thinking of a Prusa Mini. My hesitation has to do with the over all operation of the mini. I do prefer a direct drive and understand why.
However, this video is having me reconsider... Thanks, Joel, for muddying the "waters!" This will be fun to say how you and other content creators react to this machine as it becomes available. I sucked my breath back through clenched teeth at the price. But it is made in the USA. A HUGE plus.
So... they made a MK3s competitor but about 3 years late.... alright. Cudos for the open source thing i guess....
and more expensive
Sidekick has a Prusa Mini build volume, but way bulkier, over double the price, and the printed parts not nearly as elegant. Not coming with a tool head at all at base config, and $125 for a decade old screen is not great IMO.
Happy too see a Lulzbot "below" $1K but this ain't it chief.
I'm still not entirely convinced by the concept in combination with the price-range. There is a reason why Aleph Objects had cash flow problems and laid off 91 of its 113 staff. And yes, I'm aware that Fargo Additive Manufacturing Equipment acquired Aleph Objects in december 2019. I just don't see the extra value in the product. When you pay premium, you tend to expect premium in return. Looking at 8::20 , I'm not seeing that. Not in speed, not in result. That particular shot actually looks below par.
Having said that, if support and reliability are a thing, I am always willing to pay extra for that. So, maybe that's something these products are leaning on.
I started with Prusa I3 Mk3 because I decided I didn't want to start with messing+upgrading with a ender3 level printer. So yeah I understand the market they are targeting
The problem is that if they're targeting this market, they got to offer similar or more than prusa. On paper, these are better, but they come with even more of a premium than prusa, without the large community and support.
Soooo if lulzbot can verify the new side kick can survive in a sealed build chamber with the printed extrusions and they provide just as good slicer profiles like prusa then they are price competitive. Prusa really does not want you to put the printer in an enclosure nor do they like for it to be converted with different extruders. This is where the lulzbot design will excel. Also with it in the usa and pairing with 3d printer supply venders for parts like (antlabs and e3d) it makes complete sense for the usa market. But for the world market it will be hard for the lulzbot to stay competitive when you can get a mks3+ clone for $450 shipped and use prusa slicer free.
I replaced my taz and mini printer parts with petg and I use a chamber without issue fwiw
Just added up the cost for my Ender 3 Pro, with 32bit bigtreetech board, BLtouch, microswiss directdrive and other mods. Came to over 950 USD (I live in Norway, everything is expencive) So yeah, its right up there. And thats not something everyone is aware of. Ender 3 pro is a cheap alternative, but with upgrades like the Lulzbot have, its actually competitive. Would not have guessed that.
But wouldn't the lulzbot be more expensive in Norway as well?
In Germany you could do all that to an ender 3 for way less than 500€ and I would think the scaling would not be too different?
I don't have a Lulzbot printer but whenever I hear people talk about them it is all positive, when I built my Pro 3D V-King 400 a couple of Lulzbot machines were on my shortlist.
Don't believe people when they say anything positive about lulzbot. I liked mine until I was debating putting my third Rambo board in it, and went on the forum to find out if that was normal. The response I got was from someone running a print farm that told me they had been through 20+ Rambo boards on their 16 printers in two years. I even paid lulzbot to replace one board, and when it died six months later they said it wasn't a warrantied service.
For the money I invested in my taz 6 alone, I could have had a small print farm of prusa i3's.
125 to add a 10 buck screen..... yeah no. These prices are absurd for what it offers.
I think this is a step in the right direction for Lulzbot, absolutely, however the value per dollar is visibly lower than other options in this price range. If I was already in the ecosystem and had an extra toolhead around and wanted to add on a second machine, it would be a great option. With that said, the feature set is far from groundbreaking. A good entry, but I expect these to start being put on sale very quickly to keep the business afloat. It makes me more curious about what the NEXT iteration will be.
I think the sidekick competes more with the prusa mini. And that's a 400 € machine.
I wonder if more people besides me (outside of the US) find no added value to the USA-made thing.
Also, the price seems way too high for what it is when I could get a Prusa MK3S+ for about €650 cheaper. (after shipping etc.)
The magnet & belt solution for the z-axis doesn't exactly fill me with confidence either.
One other thing; my friends and family will laugh at me when I tell them I have a Lulzbot.
It translates to DickzBone over here :(
The spec it how you want it means that you, the user, can expect to get the experience you want. I am willing to tinker/adjust some things... BUT if I am buying a printer for my daughter (who has never used a 3-d printer), I want it to be as close to plug and play as I can get....BUT the four printers I have right now DO NOT TOTAL UP TO THE COST OF THE SIDEKICK!!!!
Way too expensive. At this price there are tons of better options. These printers are dead on arrival, sadly.
Is there any advantage to having the extrusions tilted? I can only think it makes it more difficult to service or find ready made parts for it making you go to lulzbot in case something breaks
he said it look cool
At first I was wondering too, but it might help with printing the printer parts without supports. Imagine a block with a square hole on its side. If that hole has its sides paralel/perpendicular to the print bed, the top face of the hole will need supports to print or you'll need to account for a bit of sagging due to bridging. If you tilt the hole 45°, none of the walls will need supports, as the top two walls will print as 45° overhangs, which most printers can handle.
The 3D printed parts are open source, right. So getting the replacement parts shouldn't be that difficult.
The V-Wheels for the motion system ride on the points of the 45 degree tilted extrusions.
I get that, but why tilt them? It makes it so that the extrusion are not attached directly with screws but with printed parts, giving more points of failure and less rigidity, with no clear benefit
Can't wait to see more of the Sidekick. As a Lulzbot owner, my biggest gripes are the current leveling system (the 4-corner washers) is unreliable at best and the software (Cura LE) is WAY behind the times. Hopefully these issues have been addressed with the Sidekick.
Thanks for getting the interview with John! That helps better understand the desire for this machine in the market. I agree with @practical printing the claims of US Made are concerning. Seems like a great deal of the parts in this printer are not actually manufactured in the states. Clearly the printed parts are, but what about the motors, circuit boards (which are assembled in the USA according to ultimachine), etc. Great video Joel! Will be looking forward to a hands on review! We are trying to see if we can get one as well to compare it to our other Lulzbot printers!
With that pricing I'll stay with Prusa/Caribou, thank you very much
Also: belted Z - ew
The pricing sucks, but belted z is quite good.
@@derektran9404 what for? I've never ran into issues where the spindles weren't fast enough, and I dislike the idea of using a belt that can stretch for vertical movement
Hell im currently modifying my belt printers to not use coreXY anymore due to the resting weight on the belts
I hate to say it but I would much rather buy two Prusa Mini's for the price of that smaller "Sidekick" considering the build volume and options are on par. THAT's the competition they're against for the smaller build and frankly, if they can't cut price by 1/3 to 1/2, there's no chance it's going to succeed. I know Prusa isn't the end all, be all of the market but it's the ruler I use when judging pre-assembled, higher quality farm machines and while I know lots of makers who swear by the LuLz quality... I just can't see the price justification.
I will say the their pick-and-choose purchasing page is definitely a nice thing to see.
I saw this video and wanted to be stoked that Lulzbot was bringing something affordable but it looks like they'll still be on what I consider the higher end of price.
The price needs to include the tool head. Otherwise it will never compete.
Am I missing something? Totally not seeing the price justification here, and $1000+ is most certainly NOT a first machine.
Compared to China you mean? That is basically the problem these days, we got accustomed to those prices which are simply not possible in any other market. It’s bad in the long run I think. this price is actually very good compared to what they used to cost and having a setup that doesn’t require modding, is certainly a good first printer (unless the modding is how you learn, which I did). Thats why Prusa is an excellent first printer as well, because it just works.
@@VincentGroenewold Every price is good compared to what things used to cost because all the expense of development is front-loaded. I'm 100% in favour of a first printer that just works, but the choice here is not "overprice Chinese crap or high priced American stuff." 3D printers have basically been open source now for at least a decade, and many of the problems have been solved. The market for reliable, affordable printers that just work has never been larger, nor the rewards greater. 4-6x the current market price for a printer is not a good starter product.
It's clearly not competing with the likes of Creality, it's a little higher end on the pricing. While everything I've seen about Lulzbot has said they're a good company, you do have to wonder whether they'd do better being a bit more cost competitive with Prusa. Dropping the price by around 10% might make all the difference in sales volumes because as it stands they're competing with an established competitor that's well regarded for reliability, print quality and manufacturing quality and not providing a compelling reason to switch
While the price may seem steep, it’s a super versatile machine that you can tailor to your needs without having to worry about quality of life improvements like on other machines. I’m excited to see where this goes!
It's a nice idea in theory, but what you get for the price is a bit odd. For the thousand dollar price of the cheapest configuration, you get a bulky printer with a small print volume, a print head without dual drive gears, and a monochrome LCD. It might have good internals, but we can't tell right now because it doesn't have its own product page on the Lulzbot site.
Edit: It has a 8 bit microcontroller and a belt Z drive, so it doesn't even have good internals for the price.
Lol, the display costs as much as an Ender 3 which has such a display.
Better to not include a display and instead have the end-user buy an octoprint so he gets decent controls over the system w/out having to pay much for those bells+whistles.
As Creality user those prices some astronomical amounts of money.
I own now CR 6 SE which is upgrad from Ender 3 v1, but still... Wow not for those money. Making mistakes can cost but it also gives you knowledge witch is best in practices. Creality and Anacubic will still be those companies which will introduces people to 3D printing.
Is it a better quality American made Prusa m3ks? I like my prusa, would be interested in an American made printer if it can perform as well as the prusa.
This is 700$ ender 3 with minor upgrades?
I love my new sidekick 747 it is my forth lulzbot . I had a mini. I have a mini2 and a workhorse with over 6 thousand hour on it.
I really like the replaceable toolhead system, but I think marketing the sidekick as having a "starting at" price of $795 is just a little bit disingenuous of them, since at that price you don't have an actually usable printer (except for the small group of users who already own multiple lulzbot toolheads). This is fine for things like high-end cameras, where the market has evolved to the point where buyers _expect_ prices to be for just the camera body, but I don't think the home 3D printing market is ready for that.
Also (and this has nothing to do with the printer itself), I dislike the fact they ask $600 for a 3-year extended warranty.
Apart from all that, Lulzbot is not really competitive on price. As you say, a Prusa i3 M3S+ will set you back $999 fully assembled. This will get you a printer WITH extruder, a spring steel PEI sheet, a filament sensor, an (admittedly fairly antiquated) LCD controller and practically the same build volume as the sidekick 747.
The 289 feel like a Prusa mini+, same (ish) build volume, spring steel PEI bed(with configuration), filament run out sensor (with configuration), but the sidekick $736 more, while not having wifi (which the Prusa Mini+ will get), bed leveling sensor, a smaller screen (and a non color screen), Prusa has been released for longer so they are more mods... Just the Lulzbot is direct drive.
They should delete the 289. Too many models.
I guess I need to hear what it can/tries to do vs. the i3mk3s? If you’re going to be a bit more expensive you have to explain what is the differentiator. Other than aesthetics, not sure what’s better? I guess the only big advantage is interchangeable heads, although given the costs from lulzbot not like the average consumer is going to buy a lot of those… a monochrome click wheel controller in 2021 seems a tad quaint, compared to the prusa mini or others with modern color 32-bit controllers, and it won’t shock me if we soon have 64-bit controllers built around high-performance ARM chips (like a Teensy 4 microcontroller). The headless design sounds like a cute idea in theory, but the screen is very helpful even in a print-farm type situation if it crashes, and you can see the error on screen like thermal runaway, etc…
I have a review model - and the comparison is absolutely going to be the Prusa Mk3S.
You can add all the special things on the sidekick to an ender 3 for $150 or probably less. So you can have pretty much the same thing for only $305. An ender 3 prints great and has only a 1/2 inch less build area than the larger sidekick. Lulzbot screwed up and no new people to printing are going to buy a $1000 printer
You can yes and I have done that (using genuine parts btw, I was getting very tired with Chinesium metals, knock-off products and such), but my next printers and machines will be from the US/European market. Why? Because in most cases I get higher quality, it is more expensive, but we should get rid of the idea we need to pay 100-200 Dollars for a 3D printer, that’s simply not a healthy market, besides for China.
That's a hefty price point. The smaller variant is competing with the Prusa Mini, while the larger is closer to the MK3 and the Pulse. Both of which are well established machines and come in at a lower price point. I'd like to see the sidekick in action. What really concerns me though is those V-slot wheels. They're a weak spot on all of the machines that use them as they can rapidly wear over time and if not adjusted properly, they cause massive headaches. Realistically...I think I'm going to give this one a pass.
I'm fairly new to 3d printing as I got an ender 3v2 for Christmas so I guess I could be missing something, but I just can't understand the cost of these machines. Obviously creality and other Chinese mfd printers have their drawbacks, but saying these are for people who have never printed before seems a little backward. Yes, the bltouch and ezr struder mods I've done were extra expenses and required installation, but that whole process has helped to familiarize me to the machine and how it all works together and was relatively cheap. A direct drive (to my knowledge) isn't as much of an "upgrade" as it is just... different. Regardless the DD and bltouch can come in under $100 even swapping extruder gears etc. This machine is 3x the price and much of the components are 3d printed, not that that's a bad thing, again just different. Mine is all machined metal and injection molded plastics which allows for less variance in manufacturing. I do like the claim that it's made in the US, but I'm guessing that's mostly the printed parts and assembly. I'm sure the motors and whatnot are coming from the usual sources but if I'm wrong good on em. Bottom line is my ender 3 with bltouch, ezr struder, and octoprint pi comes in well under $500, has a larger build area then the cheaper model here, and afforded me the opportunity to learn more about the workings of the machine and process. I can't speak to Lulzbots tool system here but I think if it's something worth having another machine could probably be adapted to use it for much less money. Also, I'm not denying the market for a premium product that uses better components. Cheap Chinese printers aren't for everyone, but if you want to compete with the likes of Prusa you probably at least ought to balance your product to provide a similar/better experience for around the same amount of money. Prusa's position in the market is what it is for a reason and I'm not sure bright green petg parts and a great tool head system are enough to dethrone them. If anyone actually reads this book, thank you, and if I'm missing something or flat out wrong please enlighten me as I'm always keen to hear from the other side.
Whatever Lulzbot are smoking, i want some
Only smoking the finest American gas!
I can't handle what they're smoking.
I really need to see more in terms of printing quality before I can comment fully. Does the Sidekick print as well as the Mk3 out of the box? If yes, then the price is fair, and "America made" will help them sell units here. If the quality isn't as good, then they will struggle
If it's anything like my taz 6, it won't be bad by any means, but no where near the quality of my prusa.
It prints a just as good if not better than a Prusa out of the box. Comparing them using the same slicer, the Sidekick has higher quality
@@KilothATEOTT so you used prusa slicer on both printers?
That's way too expensive.... It's not going to grab 1st time users at that high of a price. You can buy and upgrade other printers and still come out cheaper than the sidekick. They have completely misjudged the average consumer when it comes to getting into 3d printing. I find it completely ridiculous that it's filled with 3D printed parts(the guy pitched it as a good thing) yet, they are still asking that much for it?! 3D printing components should result in a cheaper price, especially since it's definitely not going to last as long as metal parts.
I think it's hard for me to justify because I've already begun printing and have struggled through with sub 300 dollar printers. I learned a lot in doing that, but among the things I've learned is that I do not want another Ender clone bed slinger. I want core XY with press the print button and forget it capability as well as customer service and warranty. That means spending more than 1k. That said, if you are getting a 1st printer and are willing to spend Prusa money, then maybe buy a Prusa.. You get an LCD, You get a print head, and bed leveling. 1st time buyers are not looking for a headless printer. If you have a farm maybe that's more appealing? I can't speak to that. At first blush to me, Prusa is a better value.
Heck, even a prusa mini clone off aliexpress would be better.
I just found out the extruder is not included and its a must purchase in order for machine to work . Sorry this is a failure in the making.
You need to provide a full printer or just promote the printer as a BTO "Build to order "3d printer. Make a Entry , Mid and Advance tier model
Just looked at the config basically 1300$ for that price you can almost get 2 prusa kits which is the route I would choose in this price point and I think many would agree. This just feels more like a 750$ printer not 1300
2 things they can do to improve interst in this printer. Make the smaller one 799 and include lcd and basic tool head. And the larger one 999 with the same lcd and tool head. I've always wanted a lulzbot but even this one is way out of reach. Obviously they are not looking at the low income consumer for these printers.
Ya I would recommend staying away from getting a Lulzbot for the time being. creality and Prusa make great printers that you can get for a good price to features ratio.
$125 for a reprap full graphics lcd is just insane..
And if you don't have a lulzbot already, minimum cost for a printhead is $195.
Suddenly you are looking at $320 over the base price, and in this price range you have a lot of good printers.
And over a prusa MK3s
@MintyPeacock calibration of a printer is just printing a 2x2x2 cube so
@MintyPeacock mk3s+ fully assembled is still 300$ less. Although that also shows its age with the display and 8 but board limiting new firmware features due to lack of memory
I like the concept and I really really want to back lulzbot... but not at anything near this price point. I think they're totally missing the market at $1000+ by the time you have a freaking toolhead.... I mean who the heck has spare lulzbot toolheads laying around collecting dust
At those prices shouldn't octoprint be a part of the deal? Additionally I would like to see reviews of the machine because if it isn't easier to use than the prusa machines then would be impossible to justify. I currently have a Lulzbot Pro that I cant remove prints from the build plate without major effort rendering that machine virtually unusable. I don't have time to tinker with the printers and would like someone to make a machine that fully self calibrates. The Taz6 is close and better than the prusa calibration but the winner is when I can tell the machine what filament that I want it to use and the machine figures out how to print with it and what build plat to install with that filament. In other words software needs to advance a lot. A long time ago (more than 10 years ago) I had an HP inkjet printer that fully self-calibrated itself. I am still wondering why this is not yet a thing with 3d printing.
This make TAZ Pro Bed clearing a breeze: shop.lulzbot.com/taz-pro-workhorse-magnetic-flex-bed-assembly-kt-hb0017?ref=KT-HB0017
Just ordered two for my print farm!
Awesome! Just curious- what was your rationale for going with them? Are you an existing Lulzbot customer and already printing with their machines?
GEEZE! Just the tool Heads are $500+!!! I understand made in USA but GOD!
The idea US made very cool. That means you never have delay to get spare parts you get the printer fast. I believe the challenge it's to know what the good for you and as new to 3D Printer and what good for what. I believe best way to do it is explain benefits for each part. The price not big deal if you want to buy custom 3D Printer. I really wish them the best 🙂.
Never say "never," when it comes to waiting for parts, no matter where they're made.
The basic printer with the least amount of added bits and small bed ( smaller bed and most low cost printers have )
and they say it is a budget printer for $795 Then I say no that is not a budget printer with also a very small bed size too!
Why pay that much for so little bed size when you could go get a Voxelab Aquila which has far better specs and bed size and is a clone of the famous Creality Ender 3 V2.
the Aquila cost under $200 why buy a very small print bed sized LolzBot for $795 when there is far better printer out there for less than halve that price and bigger bed sizes too?
I would probably not compare a china printer like voxelab or creality, as you will not get the same support/warranty from them. But even a prusa mini+ (for which you will get support/warranty) is half the price and comes with a much nicer screen and flex bed in the base model...
That $795 does not include lcd or printhead, so you don't actually get a functional printer for $795
It is like IPhone SE (still expensive), at +900usd you can get voron2.4 which is a lot better regarding performance....
I do like the options, but I think the magnetic print bed is a bit to expensive if I don't also get the other one (as a spare or different use cases). For me the printer is way to expensive. I would rather get a Prusa kit... It's factory is also closer to my home and here I see the only bigger selling point for luzbot. In the USA people might feel the same way about Luzbot as I do about Prusa. The factory is just closer, spare parts arrive faster, probably cheaper shipping.....
*laughs in Voron*
Speaking as a novice who had owned a flash forge finder and ender-3... There is no way I could justify spending $1000 on a 3D printer as a new or amateur hobbyist. Especially with the availability and price point of resin based printers getting better everyday it seems. There are lots of folks with deep pockets that might be happy to own a Lulzbot printer but I don't think it's fair to call them an "entry level" product.
So aside from the bed levelling probe, which I think you still have to do the levelling with thumbscrews anyway, what does this printer do that my Ender 3 V2 can't for a quarter of the price?
it is made in the US
Well, it’s better made, probably has a better bed (e.a. not warped I hope), better everything else basically, it’s all in the details. And I have an Ender 3 V2, I modded it completely.
@@VincentGroenewold you got a warped piece of glass on yours? I quite like the coated glass surface on mine and as long as the bed is well leveled manually is pretty much perfect when probed before prints. And I'm sorry but better everything? Doubt it, one of the things said here is that it's the 3d printer with the most printed parts (paraphrasing) and I'm sorry but injection molding will beat out printing parts every day of the week (at least right now) on consistency. I also wouldn't bet on the printed parts being stronger either and depending on the machine and material used they could potentially be much weaker. So we have left aluminum extrusions and electronics/kinematics, I assume there won't be much difference in the aluminum so you get potentially better motors, wiring, leveling probe, runout sensor and board for 3x price and get to pay over $100 for the screen that ender 3s were shipping with 3 years ago but have since moved on from. I value made in USA, but not 3x value. Oh yeah, that's without a hotend and all that also... Details
Sorry if I come off dickish, not my intention, I do hope anyone considering purchasing would do some more research first though (especially as this is targeted at 3dp noobs, and if I'm wrong I'd be interested in a rebuttal.
do you think there is a print quality improvement over a Creality? I do not think so. They might give too much value to the post sale support. Even Prusa is cheaper than their product.
between this printer and a Prusa, what would you but knowing that Prusa is cheaper? Or would you go for a Core XY which may be at the same price or cheaper gives you better performance and in some cases, if closed gives you an higher versatility? The positioning high price, high quality might had a sense 2 or 3 years ago on my opinion. but I might be very much wrong. In any case I am simply not in the target.
I'm not a huge fan of 3d printing companies nerfing their machines just so they can claim a low MSRP (no screen, cheap stepper drivers, mainly). These machines were most likely using cheap mechanical components already, so you know that they cannot bring the price any lower. I think a lot of people who want to buy American made stuff understand that there will be a premium because of labor costs, so if I were Lulzbot I would have packaged price points with feature parity to Prusa.
The price is still a bit too high. If the 747 version was $1200 with head, mag plate and run out sensor, then it would be close enough to compete.
Hopefully the build quality is better than late "old Lulzbot" quality: I worked with a brand new Mini and the print quality was garbage and inconsistent. Took a lot of tweaking to get it closer to acceptable, but still nothing as good as a slightly tuned Ender 3. I was expecting to be impressed because of what I've heard, but I was very disappointed.
People who have never printed before will start with an Ender 3, and this doesn't even start with a filament sensor either.
thank you for the video, but I will never buy something that has lulz in the name but I am lulz'ing at the price of it...
Completely missed the mark. Prices are incredibly high for what the printer offers. Configurator asked for 1600USD when i wanted a working printer (yes, you need to pay extra for a toolhead), display, runout sensor, magnetic bed and warranty. And for 1600USD i would still get a printer with less than 180mm cubed (even worse, designed in those ridiculous units) offering nothing special. Prusa printers aren't cheap but i can still get 3 Prusa minis, each of them still better than sidekick and save something for filaments...
To be fair you don’t have to buy the extended warranty or an extra head. The printer comes with a 1 year warranty
@@triattackzach you dont need to be buy head, if you want a printer that cant print.😀
And “extended” waranty is just something i get from prusa for free. Or maybe i am paying for extended waranty and get really good printer for free? Now i am confused.😅
But i guess i am not the only one confused as the CEO said they want sidekick to be first printer for 50% of customers but they sell it headless and without extruder because its better for print farms.
In short, dont even try. There is no other reason to buy sidekick if you dont value the “made in murica!!!!” sticker to at least 1000usd.
They need to beat Prusa's price on the 747. I don't know what that 289 is really for. I prefer my TAZ6 to both, and haven't really been impressed with the newer line of printers.
Tough for them. I think lowering the pricepoint is going to be really important.
Overpriced. Granted we don't have an actual test yet but its like 1000USD without some basic features. 95USD for a simple LCD screen??? Those screens are like 10 bucks, print yourself a case and you can probably make it work yourself.
The printhead options are also very pricey, like a Hemera is 120USD, add some fans and a little printed parts and you have something thats not 325USD.
Also all that for 17x17cm build space?
Love my mini and Taz still going strong. Super happy to see a new product from Lulzbot :)
being new to the 3d printing scene, I sometimes think that maybe I should have looked at the higher end printers but i bought a ender 3 pro and even though it give me headaches at times, the troubleshooting actually help me find more info on 3d printing and I think that is always a good thing, whereas if i got a high end printer i might have a known alot of the channels on youtube, reddit and all the informational websites, 1k, i'll pass for me it's a fun hobby but right now i am in a rut and can't think of anything to print other than bowling ball cups just to make use of my bad petg since it doesn't need to be nice, just functional.
Way to expensive for a 1st timers 1st printer. you can get 3 or 4 Ender 3's for that price.
If anything, they're competing with the Creality CR-6 SE, which has the same features as the bigger one of the two here but comes in at 300-350 Euros. I really don't see why the Sidekicks are that much more expensive.
Sorry Lulzbot, the price is wrong. Good luck...
I think they should be about $300 cheaper fully equipped. Maybe its a good printer. But at the price they are asking. The world may never know.
Just wanted to add that with it being made mostly from 3d printed parts should make this more affordable than some of the other options. But it doesn’t.
I really like what lulzbot are working with, but really, and as he said people tend to buy cheap and upgrade their printers. This brand is very much aimed at the seasoned professionals that really want quality. That being said i'm not that sure what real value you get for the price. The educational approach is brilliant from luzbot but for me the build volume is really important and goes had in hand with the relevance to decent component parts. The Bondtech & Slice parts are by far the best combos in the market (in my opinion) but you can strap these to any 3d printer now. For the money i'd stick with my RatRig's
I started with a Taz 6 4 years ago because it has the auto bed leveling using the corner washers and was made in the U.S. Once I learned how to use 3D printers, I sold it. With the money I bought a larger volume printer, a resin printer, and a wash & cure station. They are solid printers, but why pay more with no true benefits. They have the same issue - clogs, belts breaking, bed heater, hot end thermistor, etc. If you have extra money, go for it, but as a consumer, I am going to get the most for my dollars.
Home run, I would of done a Kickstart campaign w/ 100 dollar discount
I enjoyed buying a cheap 3d printer and adding the upgrades over time. I have a better appreciation for it and I now know every aspect of my printer 😀
If it's made here, it's going to cost like it's made here. That means it isn't being assembled with cheap slave labor like apple products. At some point, you have to be sensible and realize that if Americans are going to survive in the American market, we're going to have to pay for American wages. And if 'world trade' were fair, they'd be paying American Wages overseas. They're not because they don't want to and in many cases don't have a free system or market nor strong enough of either to support those wages. I own 3 Lulzbot Taz 5 printers. And if I had a large format American made resin printer I would be considering a USA made resin printer right now as well. As is, I'm forced to look to Taiwan as giving money to China is absolutely off the table.
The pricing is spicy but way better than the discount offering being a 1500 lulzbot mini. I agree the segment the sidekick is entering has few entries and there is some demand.
One could buy a whole 3D printer with just what they charge for a printhead ._. which by the way, even on the booth at 8:19 you can see it doesn't even perform well despite printing quite slowly
I think that they missed the mark on the price by quite a bit and "nickel and diming" the customer for the display and filament sensor is laughable.
They seem to want to be the US version of Prusa but that doesn't mean they will or indeed should even try. Make something unique and at a price the masses can afford ($500'ish), in my opinion that is what the market wants.
Looks cool, but I wonder if the Flash Forge Adventure 4 at a lower price with better filiment options is a better option overall.
I think they missed the mark on price with both of these. If they had offered them with the LCD and a basic tool head then maybe they can justify the price but I still think it is to high for a the intended market. The user configuration idea is nice but let's be real, some of the prices they want for just basic things needed to have this run out of the box, which is what a new person is wanting or so they say, are totally ridiculous. They need to rethink what they are doing as there are a lot of good printers out there that are cheaper and will run great stock from the box.