Jonathan - This speech was awesome! I always thought that when you said you saw the world through the resurrection he just meant the christian view. Now after watching this I think I understand what you mean! Through Jesus's death, he creates a "hyper-agent" a spirit that acts within the world and requires our participation. Man, thats good stuff.
This was truly meaningful. See self-sacrifice in a different light. The higher good does not originate from the material realm, as in ...'The road to evil is paved with good intentions' ..... man's intentions. Higher good is inspired via a connection with the Creator.
Man, my mind is in such a confused split between listening to the likes of Jonathon but also thinkers like Alan Watts and for the time being, I cannot bring it together. It’s painful with a glimpse of light. Jonathon is doing such great work. I hope I can find some direction to live in a similar manner. Amen
Dude ditch Allen Watts, come on now. Johnathan is very clear about from where his direction comes from. From the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Allen Watts is like a self styled shaman who ironically aimed for commercialized entertainment bringing western philosophies and religions to Americans. Like he was marketing himself while promoting the opposite Christianity has something deeply profound and of eternal importance to offer. Dive into the church Fathers and scriptures and prayer and don't look back
Supposedly one or some of the church fathers would say that they didn’t want to be quoted…they wanted people to hear Gods Word in a way that they make it their own understanding of the truth, of His Word. I agree with your intuition that the good draws us towards Love. Saying the same thing as you, I think: Beauty is the practical stand in for the good, which is a stand in for that which is true, all together the good the true and the beautiful moves us, animates our action towards love.
The facts that were gathered to form the good of why the atom bomb was created was quickly turned on its head by the bomb g of Nagasaki and Hiroshima Or were those facts not considered at all ??
It was the wrong aim. More than wrong. Without love, you don’t see a tree as one thing…so you cut it in half, and those halves into smaller halves, from one to the many, chopping it into the finer and finer halves…. ….you have find yourself inventing tools to keep cutting in half and invent tools to see what your are cutting in half until that unstoppable insanity and inability to remember God leads you to cut into the atomic bomb 🤯 We’ve departed from Love, from one into the many the West has been trying to warp the fabric of reality…that insanity lead us to the A-bomb…that insanity is what some fools labeled the Enlightenment era.
Is JPag saying the following or something more, something else? If we live in the imitation of Christ then our institutions and other collective consciousnesses will reach thierfullest potential, and they, in doing that will enable us individually to further flourish in unimaginable ways, which will further enable our collective forms to flourish - perhaps until we more completely are the collective being than the individual. The Risen Christ represents this fullness of collective flourishing oneness, a kind of collective Man, praps a bit resonant with Teilhard's vision. So in some way our goal isn't individual 'fulfilment' alone but more fully to let ourselves become the fulfilled collective Man, the mystical body of Christ. Is that JPag's gist?
I think the answer is yes. I think he is saying (but I may be wrong!) that all our action is directed towards a good, but we need to define what that good looks like. Jesus partly exemplifying the highest good. Ie self sacrifical agape love rather than physical sacrifice of your first born for example. Or he examplifies the highest values towards which we aim to put it in JP language I guess.
So Hitler was driving towards his own perceived good, it was just wildly misinformed. Like Socrates' "there is no good vs. Evil only wisdom vs. Ignorance." its all causal, baby.
I really want to see Jonathon and the rest of the talkers look into a mirror on the idea of scapegoating gnostics. You are never going to have a proper Christian Aggregore without the gnostics. You can keep bashing them all you want, it doesn't actually make the church stronger though.
The Church, represented by the fathers and saints embody everything that the gnostics were seeking, just a lot better, more holistically and more true. Hence their holiness and intercession for us. We need a Communion of Saints and be members of the Body of Christ. The gnostic heresies simply do not provide this.
@@Xanaseb "the father's and saints embody everything that the gnostics we're seeking" "The gnostic heresies do not provide this" Can't even make it through one paragraph without the deep programming kicking in. I don't intend to be rude but that answer sounded like talking to a leftist NPC reciting lines about racism.
Is there room in your gnostic system for children, the mentally retarded, or just simple everyday folks? Can a deaf mute be saved, be united to God, be illumined? Why do gnostics value mind over body? Is the body a prison? Is the serpent of Genesis the enlightener, or is he the deceiver? The gnostic worldview, the ideas of Marcion or Valentinus, are incompatible with Orthodox Christianity. Are in opposition to Orthodox Christianity. That's why.
One of Jonathan bests speeches! I feel so blessed to able to watch and listen. Thank you for creating this conference and making this happen!
Paul was recently casually mentioning the same level of appreciation for this.
This brought me to tears, Jonathan you did it again
This was phenomenal. Extremely helpful to me. Thank you to all that were involved in making this happen and to Jonathan.
Great talk. Thanks Jonathan. ☀
Thanks for uploading this gem!
Jonathan - This speech was awesome! I always thought that when you said you saw the world through the resurrection he just meant the christian view. Now after watching this I think I understand what you mean! Through Jesus's death, he creates a "hyper-agent" a spirit that acts within the world and requires our participation. Man, thats good stuff.
What a truly wonderful talk ❤ Thank you Jonathan 🙏
This was truly meaningful. See self-sacrifice in a different light.
The higher good does not originate from the material realm, as in ...'The road to evil is paved with good intentions' ..... man's intentions. Higher good is inspired via a connection with the Creator.
I keep coming back to this video, brilliant!
Man, my mind is in such a confused split between listening to the likes of Jonathon but also thinkers like Alan Watts and for the time being, I cannot bring it together. It’s painful with a glimpse of light. Jonathon is doing such great work. I hope I can find some direction to live in a similar manner. Amen
Dude ditch Allen Watts, come on now. Johnathan is very clear about from where his direction comes from. From the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Allen Watts is like a self styled shaman who ironically aimed for commercialized entertainment bringing western philosophies and religions to Americans. Like he was marketing himself while promoting the opposite
Christianity has something deeply profound and of eternal importance to offer. Dive into the church Fathers and scriptures and prayer and don't look back
Amen to that! Jesus said " I Am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to The Father except through me."
This lecture sums up many lines of thought into one stream. From the cup to Dante to the existence of Santa Clause. Bravo Jonathan.
Fantastic!
I loved this. I've been thinking about love and attention since the movie Ladybird. It is one line but . . . . it caught my attention!
Fantastic. Beautifully said. Thank you.
Very interesting, it seems Jonathan is a true anthropocentric!
Brilliant 👏👏👏🙏
It seems to me that the Good is also that which draws us towards Love. Not sure if he said that, but it seems true to me.
Supposedly one or some of the church fathers would say that they didn’t want to be quoted…they wanted people to hear Gods Word in a way that they make it their own understanding of the truth, of His Word.
I agree with your intuition that the good draws us towards Love.
Saying the same thing as you, I think:
Beauty is the practical stand in for the good, which is a stand in for that which is true, all together the good the true and the beautiful moves us, animates our action towards love.
Did he ever get to take even one sip out of that glass of water?
27:17
@@Mooseman327: You're right. Well observed.
The facts that were gathered to form the good of why the atom bomb was created was quickly turned on its head by the bomb g of Nagasaki and Hiroshima
Or were those facts not considered at all ??
It was the wrong aim. More than wrong.
Without love, you don’t see a tree as one thing…so you cut it in half, and those halves into smaller halves, from one to the many, chopping it into the finer and finer halves….
….you have find yourself inventing tools to keep cutting in half and invent tools to see what your are cutting in half until that unstoppable insanity and inability to remember God leads you to cut into the atomic bomb 🤯
We’ve departed from Love, from one into the many the West has been trying to warp the fabric of reality…that insanity lead us to the A-bomb…that insanity is what some fools labeled the Enlightenment era.
Is JPag saying the following or something more, something else?
If we live in the imitation of Christ then our institutions and other collective consciousnesses will reach thierfullest potential, and they, in doing that will enable us individually to further flourish in unimaginable ways, which will further enable our collective forms to flourish - perhaps until we more completely are the collective being than the individual. The Risen Christ represents this fullness of collective flourishing oneness, a kind of collective Man, praps a bit resonant with Teilhard's vision. So in some way our goal isn't individual 'fulfilment' alone but more fully to let ourselves become the fulfilled collective Man, the mystical body of Christ.
Is that JPag's gist?
I think the answer is yes. I think he is saying (but I may be wrong!) that all our action is directed towards a good, but we need to define what that good looks like. Jesus partly exemplifying the highest good. Ie self sacrifical agape love rather than physical sacrifice of your first born for example. Or he examplifies the highest values towards which we aim to put it in JP language I guess.
@@MattWilkinsonwilkoteq thankyou Matt, & thanks for taking the time to respond. Best wishes.
So Hitler was driving towards his own perceived good, it was just wildly misinformed. Like Socrates' "there is no good vs. Evil only wisdom vs. Ignorance." its all causal, baby.
I really want to see Jonathon and the rest of the talkers look into a mirror on the idea of scapegoating gnostics. You are never going to have a proper Christian Aggregore without the gnostics. You can keep bashing them all you want, it doesn't actually make the church stronger though.
The Church, represented by the fathers and saints embody everything that the gnostics were seeking, just a lot better, more holistically and more true. Hence their holiness and intercession for us. We need a Communion of Saints and be members of the Body of Christ. The gnostic heresies simply do not provide this.
@@Xanaseb "the father's and saints embody everything that the gnostics we're seeking"
"The gnostic heresies do not provide this"
Can't even make it through one paragraph without the deep programming kicking in. I don't intend to be rude but that answer sounded like talking to a leftist NPC reciting lines about racism.
@@3rdwaveredpill144 You didn't even give an answer. You're just complaining.
Is there room in your gnostic system for children, the mentally retarded, or just simple everyday folks? Can a deaf mute be saved, be united to God, be illumined?
Why do gnostics value mind over body? Is the body a prison? Is the serpent of Genesis the enlightener, or is he the deceiver?
The gnostic worldview, the ideas of Marcion or Valentinus, are incompatible with Orthodox Christianity. Are in opposition to Orthodox Christianity.
That's why.