Should Dipper Have Become Ford's Apprentice? (Gravity Falls Video Essay)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Another important thing that no one mentions in here is how Dipper's "resolution" with his conflict with Mabel implies that, since it's a reflection of Stan and Ford's relationship, that the problem with Stan and Ford wasn't Stan being unable to cope with not being 24/7 with his twin and breaking the project, it was Ford wanting to go to college in the first place and the "solution" was him giving it up to make Stan happy. That is SO messed up in SO many ways I don't even know where to start: dreams and family are NOT opposite things and wanting to follow your carreer does NOT make you selfish, and the fact that the narrative of the show implies this is concerning to say the least.
You see, I wanna be nice to the show and say I don’t think that’s entirely the parallel they were trying to draw. Seeing a Tale of Two Stand didn’t convince me that the lesson was that Ford should’ve not pursued college and went with Stan. That episode went to great lengths to show that both of them made mistakes and both didn’t deserve what they got. Stan broke the machine (albeit by accident), but that didn’t mean he deserved getting kicked out of his house by his abusive father or having his brother never even try and reach out. Ford didn’t go to the college he wanted (although he still became pretty well off and got to pursue his dream career) and although he didnt reach out to his brother he didn’t deserve being tricked by a demon and losing his sanity. I think the real issue that needed to be resolved between Ford and Stan was lack of understanding and communication. Stan spent his whole life reassuring his brother and being proud of his accomplishments, but when Stan is feeling inadequate all Ford says is “But the college I wanna go to has the things I want? Why are you sad about me going?”
Ford doesn’t attempt to reassure Stan that although they’ll be apart that they’ll still be brothers and will always be there for each other when they need to. And the fact that Ford stops talking to Stan for 10 years over one mistake he made as a teenager that didn’t even cost him that much in the grand scheme of things means that Ford was never that good a brother to Stan in the first place.
I went a little off topic but what I mean is, while Dipper and Mabel are parallels to Stan and Ford, their stories and resolutions aren’t exactly one to one. And while they fumbled the bag on Dipper and Mabel’s storyline, I think they wrapped up Stan and Ford’s storyline pretty well
@@JHayes-lh7uv I think you missunderstood part of what I meant, I'm not saying that A Tale of Two Stans implies that Ford shouldn't have pursued college, as you said, the episode shows that there was a lot of misscommunication and errors on both of their parts, that episode was brilliant for that because it showed both of them being in the wrong: on the one hand, while Stan's fear and insecurities were understandable conidering the little to no selfsteem he had, he betrayed Ford (yes, he broke the project by accident, but he covered his tracks and didn't say anything until Ford confronted him and the damage was done, and even then he showed no remorse, shrugged it off like nothing and even showed happyness at the prospect of Ford not going). Did he deserve to get kicked out? Obviously not, but that's Filbrick's fault, not Ford's. And Ford lost the chance to go to the best college of the country for free, and had to work 3 times harder to make up for his brother's mistakes on him. What Ford did wrong was in holding such a grudge and not trying to reach up to Stan either, and he didn't deserve to get possessed or tortured either. Like you said, their only problem was lack of communication between them (even if Ford had made clear to Stan he wanted to keep his connection with him, he wanted him to come visit him to his college, he wanted to keep contact).
You see, Alex Hirsch in the commentaries of A Tale of Two Stans said himself that Stan's and Ford''s relationship was supposed to be a reflection of Dipper's and Mabel's relationship, and that like them, their relationship would break at some point, but they would find a solution that Ford and Stan didn't have. A Tale of Two Stans doesn't insinuate this, but Escape from Reality does because, the "solution" Dipper and Mabel put is Dipper giving up the schollarship, therefore implying that Ford was in the wrong for accepting the apprenticeship. A Tale of Two Stans doesn't imply this, but Escape from Reality does, definitely.
@@JHayes-lh7uv Trust me, I do agree that Stan and Ford's storyline was wrapped up very well too, my problem comes with Dipper's and Mabel's resolution to their relationship and what it implies as a reflection of Stan's and Ford's.
Yeah. That’s why I hate Mabel. Since if they are a mirror then the show really did f up
Should he have become Ford's apprentice? Well, perhaps, but not right away. Enjoy his childhood, graduate from school, THEN he could become Ford's apprentice as an alternative to college.
Do you know how old ford is?
ford would be like 60-70 by the time that happened
BOLD assumption, ford would probably extend his life span by eating roasted alien’s with mustard.
EXACTLY, Ford was right to point out Dipper's skill but he had no consideration for his childhood. At least like the kid go through high school first
@@Gavbloxford has until he turns 92 then he dies
Wish the show acknowledged this wasn't a binary choice. Dipper could have been an apprentice during the summers at least, but the show didn't bother with that, they just made it an either-or situation. The lack of compromise at all, just Dipper completely rejecting the apprenticeship, was frustrating to watch. The show at minimum could have had Ford offer the apprenticeship during the summer if Dipper wanted before the twins got on the bus.
I swear I can't agree with you enough, I just HATE how the show constantly makes an either-or situation with the twins and always ending up forcing Dipper to sacrifice something even when there's NO really need. I mean, come on, Dipper didn't have to say no to the apprenticeship, just let him do it during the summers so he can still go back home with his parents and still go to school and stay with Mabel, there was no need for Dipper to give up anything, it's like the show sees Dipper being in the wrong for wanting anything.
Seriously kid needs to go to school regardless of what Mable feels
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 I honestly don't think Dipper going back to school is such a good idea: from personal experience, 90% of what you learn in school, you won't need it in the long run, and having a personal teacher is much, much better for personal and academic education. Also, the series showed a flashback where Dipper is bullied and outcasted at school, if we add the fact that he won't be able to study what he wants back home, I think it's safe to say the boy isn't happy there. But again, the problem comes back to the main point, and it's the fact that, regardless of Dipper staying or coming back home, his decision doesn't feel his own, it feels like he only did that forced by Mabel, which, to me, is what feels so wrong.
Beyond being an apprentice during future summers, I feel like it didn’t even have to be a decision made now, as young as he is. If he’s coming back every summer anyway, that would present other opportunities to accept the offer when he’s a bit older, after getting a chance to feel out high school. But they treat it like “you have to choose NOW or it’s off the table forever.”
@@LilyShimizu Exactly, it's just so frustrating when they treat stuff like that as in either you take it or it's forever gone when it's not like that.
For me, not at the time. Not necessarily even because Dipper wasn't ready, but because Ford wasn't in the right place to be a mentor, especially not to a young kid such as Dipper. Ford is paranoid, traumatized, and no, nobody can blame him after what he'd been trough, but he needs time to get to a better place mentally and emotionally before he would be able to take not only mentoring, but essentially raising a kid as well. Ford is not exactly in the best place to fulfil the emotional needs of a young teen.
If Dipper lived in GF with his parents and went to school there and this was like an after school/weekend activity thing, than sure. But in this situation? No.
Keep in mind, Dipper is 12. Ford and Stan are not THAT old, they will live for a while longer, certainly. Dipper can always take the apprenticeship during high school, or before/duirng college or something like that.
The thing with Ford is that he is an amazing personal tutor for Dipper and a successful, trusting man.
I agree with you and honestly I don't think Dipper would be happy with Ford because of this and I believe Dipper should have gone on his own and make his own life without Ford and Mabel.
That is a good point, the way i believe Ford sees dipper is as a adult, and in many ways that's true, dipper is mature and intelligent but also in other ways he's a kid who is dealing with his own insecurities and Ford may not be mentally prepared for that.
To go with the Ford will live a while longer point, he's going to make it to age 92. Bill confirmed this with the line "Don't have a heart attack, you're not 92 yet!".
This may be wrong but I did some math and determined that Stan and Ford are roughly 64 years old, five or take about 5 years. Since Ford got his PhDs 3 years early, since it takes 5-8 years to get a PhD after your masters, and it takes 4 years to get a bachelors and 1-3 years to get a masters, then that means that he would’ve been between the ages of 25 and 30. This is assuming he graduated high school the year he turned 18. He says (if I’m not mistaken) that he was in gravity falls for about 6 years prior to going into the portal, making him between the ages of 31 and 36 when he “disappeared”. There was then a 30 year period between then and the events of the show, making him between the ages of 61 and 66 during gravity falls’ run. Since the average of the two is 63.5, and Stan and Ford’s birthday is in June (and Ford returned after June), then their age would be roughly 64.
So yes, they aren’t too old, and according to something Bill said, Ford should die at the age of 92 via a heart attack. So Ford at the very least should be alive for another 28 years.
My math might be wrong so feel free to correct me if it is, since I did it all in my head lol
If Dipper were a college student, I’d agree that he should join the apprenticeship but I’m not sure 13-year-old Dipper should spend full years learning under Stanford. A summer study program would make more sense until he graduates high school.
My first instinct is say yes, because as we had seen through the series, Dipper was a brilliant child that felt completely unnappreciated back home since in his own words, no one took him seriously or listened to him, nothing interesting happened at Piedmont, and the poor kid was being bullied and outcasted at school for being himself, which lead him to be insecure and only having his sister for a friend. In Gravity Falls however, he found, as he himself admitted, everything he ever wanted: friends and mysteries, and Gravity Falls was his own enviroment where he felt confident and could be himself. If we add to the equation that he would be tutored by his hero and the only relative that trully valued his interests and his worth as a person, supporting him instead of teasing him and belittle him, then that was an even better offer. He even proclaimed how his first mission with Ford was the best day of his life. Staying in Gravity Falls would have been Dipper's reward for all his growth through the series and helped him to finally mature and finally stablish that confidence he struggled so much to get.
I know many people say "but what about Mabel and their parents? They wouldn't leave their son alone taken away", but that's...a bit ridiculous: the child is just 8 hours away by bus, he is not kidnapped and taken away at the other end of the world, and having Ford as a tutor would have given him much more freedom of schedule than any regular school, the boy could have visited his home once a week if he pleased, and videochat daily. Besides, these are the same parents who were totally okay with sending both of their kids away for over 3 months to a relative they barely knew anything about. Do we honestly think they would have refused if said grunkle offered their kid free advanced education and that the kid wanted to take? Plus, it's not like there weren't other options to take the apprenticeship without Dipper having to stay: let's do the apprenticeships during the summers, or pospose it until he finishes highschool, that way the boy doesn't lose anything and he still stays with his family, problem solved. And about Mabel...I'm sorry, but Dipper's future of what he wants to do with his life is his own decision, not hers, and the fact that the show portrays Mabel as being totally in the right for guilting him, accusing him of abandoning her and blackmailing him in the middle of the end of the world so that he does what she wants him to do is messed up.
I agree
Honestly Dipper refusing to take the apprenticeship was the right move because if he hadn’t then Ford would have stayed in Gravity Falls and kicked Stan out and not gone of the Stan on War 2 with Stan.
And honestly Fords ending never had anything to do with Dipper. His ending was reconciling with his brother, getting that second chance to be a better brother to Stan, not being a mentor to Dipper.
Plus Dipper accepting the apprenticeship would kinda put a halt onto his character arc which is learning not to grow up so fast. He didn’t decide to not take it solely because of Mabel he took it because he realized that lesson, he doesn’t want to grow up to fast, he wants the chance to be a kid and also yes, see Mabel grow up along side him too.
@@TheAngelofFate17 why would Stanford have to kick anyone out? Dipper (and why not Mabel too) goes to see both of his grunkles and is Ford's apprantice every summer and for the rest of the year he goes to school with Mabel. There is literally no conflict caused by that.
@@timrosswood4259 because that literally what was implied when Ford said it?
And again Dipper taking the apprenticeship would not only halt Ford from going out on the ocean with Stanley, but also would prevent Soos from taking over the Shack because as Ford implied back then “And this whole Mystery Shack Junk is over forever.” Which would also prevent Soos from getting his happy ending too. Being out on the sea with Stan, that is Ford’s ending, reconciling with his brother.
Besides, Alex said himself in an interview that in the end Dipper wouldn’t have really benefited from Ford’s apprenticeship anyway. So really the topic is null in void because in the end, no matter what we all think, Dipper still chose to not take it.
@@TheAngelofFate17 The problem isn't with Dipper or not taking the apprenticeship because "it was the right move", the problem is that he only does it to please Mabel, never because it's good for him or not. Also, Ford and Stan could have fixed their relationship anyway with or without Dipper staying, Dipper's apprenticeship didn't take away any of that.
Dipper and Mabel's relationship is a reflection of Stan and Ford's that is ment to reflect how the kids managed to fix the mistake their grunkles commited, litterally Alex's words. Dipper giving up the apprenticeship as a solution implies that Ford should have given up the apprenticeship, which is downright ridiculous and sends a terrible message.
Dipper accepting the apprenticeship was the right route for his character arc, because through the entire series, he had been struggling with self-confidence, socialization and accomplish his dreams, while at the same time enjoying his childhood, and the apprenticeship gave him all of that while also forcing Mabel to grow up too and accept that not everything was going to stay the same forever and that she wasn't getting her way all the time, but not doing so, Mabel learns nothing and Dipper doesn't progress. Plus, the narrative clearly shows and stablishes that Dipper gives it up exclusively for Mabel, as he was clearly excited, happy and totally okay with taking it until Mabel guilted him and blackmailed him.
Honestly I wish dipper had agreed to take it, but in a few years time. There’s always the next school holiday for him to visit and get some learning in until then. Just a quick discussion about that being an option, that’s all I wanted.
My hatred of him turning it down comes from how after the show spent it’s entire time coddling mabel and acting like she could do no wrong and then she got what she wanted *again*. It didn’t feel like he was turning it down because that’s what he wanted, but because the show needed an excuse to keep him with her.
Agreed, for crying out loud, even in Amphibia they handled this better in one single episode. Like, seriously, just let Dipper do the apprenticeship during the summers, or let him do it after he graduates highschool. It could have been solved as easily as Ford saying "Don't worry Dipper, go back home with your sister, we can do the apprenticeship during the summers once you come back, and later if you feel ready, at full time after you graduate, until then, enjoy your childhood". That's IT, that's ALL it would have taken. But no, instead Dipper calls his future and dreams "a ridiculous fantasy" and throws it away just to make sure Mabel gets what she wants, after she litterally replaced her brother during the apocalypse, tried to kick him out in it and leave him to rot unless he did what she wanted him to do, again, and Dipper complying feels like she is getting away with it and getting rewarded for it, which is completely messed up.
Dipper went through hell to get Mabel out of bubble, no way he is not going to give her what she wants. That's their relationship, Mabel either forcing or guiltripping Dipper to do what she wants.
Omfg, for crying out loud Mabel is a kid along with dipper not to mention that their parents were divorcing at that time. “Coddling Mabel” THATS HIS SISTER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD HERE!!!! Mabel even said that dipper can still take ford apprenticeship if he wanted too but dipper STILL turned it down because HE wanted to be with his sister. The show has showcase Mabel being in the wrong too before, that’s why she has apologized for her actions and explaining why she was in the wrong. For crying out loud, dipper has done worse things but y’all hate Mabel for making a mistake.
@@DeathKitta No it’s not… you either dont watch/understand the show or you hate girls.
@@mae4life527 Or maybe I hate manipulators. Like yes she is young and I am pretty sure she is not aware of what she is doing but she DID make Dipper do what she wants while refusing to do the same for him in equal exchange.
Bill's point wouldn't have swayed Dipper if it wasn't partly true.
I agree. Dipper is a kid, and as well intentioned as Ford is, he is not ready to be a child's full time guardian. Hell, he isn't even ready for social interaction with other adults yet. The guy was a socially awkward before going into the portal. He's probably WAY worse now.
On top of that Dipper is in some very important years developmentally. He needs to go experience normal life before making this decision. He can go hang out with Ford during the summer or something.
To be honest, the problem isn't really about Dipper accepting Ford's offer or not, and had the show given the child a chance to decide by himself without anyone's influence, pressure, guilting or blackmailing, it would have been perfectly fine whatever he chose because it would have been HIS own choice, staying or not staying, or even just posposing it to the summers only or after he finished highschool. The REAL issue the apprenticeship has is that Dipper is NEVER given a chance to think things through and choose by himself, all because of Mabel, because she refuses to hear him out or even find a way to make it work: Dipper could have stayed and go visit her weekly and videochat daily, or he could have just left the apprenticeship as a summer thing so that he could still go with Mabel back home but doing it during the summers he came to visit, or doing it after highschool, or Mabel could have stayed with Dipper, there was a MILLION ways Dipper could have taken the apprenticeship and still make things work, but Mabel openly refuses and closes that door shut because "I don't want it to work! It's a horrible opportunity for ME! You're the only person I could have counted on and you're leaving me too?!" and goes and decides to trap the entire town to keep Dipper from making his own choice in life. It doesn't get better when later in Escape from Reality she not only spits all over his unconditional love and support in his face by creating Dippyfresh and claiming he isn't supportive enough, she openly blames him for her state of mind, openly ignores the apocalypse she caused and sends Dipper to a trial where she threats him that if he doesn't convince her to go back home with her (aka giving up the apprenticeship), she will stay in there forever and kick him out in the end of the world and replace him for good. She is litterally blackmailing him in the middle of the apocalypse she created and forcing him to choose between his future and her, to the point that Dipper outright LIES about the apprenticeship so that she listens to what she wants to hear, and Mabel only accepts once Dipper does what she wants him to do. The fact that the show portrays Mabel's behaviour in this episode as being totally in the right and placing Dipper in the wrong for wanting to fullfill his dreams and carreer is beyond flippant, and considering this is a reflection of Ford's and Stan's relationship, it implies that Ford was in the wrong for wanting to go to college, which is beyond ridiculous: following your dreams does NOT make you selfish, and family should support you, not hold you back.
I agree with you on most arguments, the real problem is that the show doesn't give the characters time (episodes) to think about their decisions.
If Dipper had had at least one episode to think about the proposal, given the pros and cons and then speaking out his decision would sound much more natural.
@@gabrielmendonca6853 Exactly, the problem isn't really that Dipper said yes or no, the problem is that his answer didn't feel honest or natural, it felt forced, it felt like it was just what Mabel wanted to hear, it felt like Dipper was backtracking for her. Had Dipper actually been given time to think about it on his own without the pressure of the world coming to an end, it would have been perfect regardless of what he would choose because the audience would feel it's his own decision, it would feel it was natural and honest coming from him. But that never happens.
@@dracoangelrojo In particular, I think that's the biggest problem with Gravity Falls, the time the show gives us to present the story, or at least not waste time with episodes that have no relevance to the plot.
I'm in the group of people who defend that there should have been a season 3, precisely because of that, we could have gotten to know Ford better, have had a better development in the relationship between the Pines family members, have a real development for Wendy, etc...
@@gabrielmendonca6853 Trust me, I entirely agree with you: Gravity Falls should have had 3 seasons instead of just 2: have a complete 20-episode season 2 that ended up with Not What He Seems, and then a third season composed of 20 episodes that started with A Tale of Two Stans and ended up with Weirdmaggedon, that way the characters like Wendy, Robbie and Mabel would have gotten far more and much needed development and Ford would have gotten much more screen time, it would have given room for better writing of many, many episodes.
@Draco7thWarrior Exactly, Mabel didn't help at all
I'm not sure. Especially since he's so young, it might lead him to become a sort of hermit and his relationship with Mabel might have become just as strained as Stan and Ford's. But it's just as possible that he would have been fine, we'll never know since unfortunately Dipper didn't have the opportunity to really think about it
I honestly don't think it would have become strained as Stan and Ford's, remember that the reason why Stan and Ford ended up so badly wasn't because Ford wanted to go to college (in fact, Ford left clear he wanted to keep in contact with Stan and even having him coming to visit or go with him), the problem of that relationship came because of what Stan did to Ford. And honestly, considering what Mabel did to Dipper in Weirdmaggedon...now I fear that this is when the resentment and the strain could start.
@@dracoangelrojo yeh I agree that by not having mabel learn that just because shes sad and throws a fit doesn't mean that dipper has to give up everything for her, can leave one thinking that the characters in the future would have a lot of issues throughout life.
@@FreshZCORD Yeah, I mean, sooner or later Mabel will have to learn that she can't always expect life going 100% her way (even Alex Hirsch said that the reason she's so cheerful is because she is used of having her life her way constantly and she panics the second that doesn't happen), she can't expect everyone bending over their lives or giving up anything they need or want so she remains comfortable and happy. She can't handicap her brother for the rest of their lives, and letting Mabel get away with actually blackmailing Dipper about his future is concerning to say the least, because not only it still keeps Mabel from learning anything and confronting reality, it also keeps Dipper sacrificing his best chances in life and the risk of him growing resentful of Mabel. If Mabel doesn't learn and keeps repeating these stunts over and over again (which is the most probably thing given how she behaves until the end), it's going to come a point when Dipper is going to snap (can't blame him given all the things he has to go through), leading to a similar break Stan and Ford went through, with the difference that in Stan's case, what he did was partially an accident. If things between the twins don't improve, they are going down a worse path than their grunkles.
@@dracoangelrojo right
@@FreshZCORD Waitwaitwait, "give up everything for her"? Bro Dipper can still go back to Gravity Falls later and do the apprenticeship and even if he didn't it's not like his entire life is over. He accomplished several feats and learned multiple things _without_ an apprenticeship; why does he need that so badly?
I believe he should, he shown to be capable long before meeting Ford, when the journal was all the information he could use and managed to succeed in many supernatural conflicts. Besides Dipper and Mabel both seem to prefer being around Gravity Falls then home anyway, Mabel not being join him might be the only conflict he may have if he stays.
But Mabel...?
@@frank-yp9br what about Mabel?
@@frank-yp9br Mabel could have attended public school with Candy and Grenda, so she could have still spent time with Dipper but also receive guidance from Grunkle Stan on entrepreneurship
Sometimes growing up means temporary separation, but not permanent. It’s made out to be permanent. Honestly, I think they would benefit from that amount of time between summers and gain character growth and development. Besides, they still have phone calls, letters, and other mystical means of communication. It wouldn’t be the end of the world, and in mabel being selfish and impulsive, she actually caused what would have been the end of the world for a short stint of time.
Did she not have friends back home? What did she do with her life prior to gravity falls?
I’m sure she would survive to tell the tale, even if it wasn’t as action packed as her summer.
I doesn't help the fact that Wendy did give Mabel a negative mindset at the moment followed by her friends moving away when preparing for her and Dipper birthday party
I remember hearing from alex Hirsh that there was going to be a scene showing mabel happy in school in her late teens when dipper rolls up in a car wrapped in bandages, the other kids make fun of him saying he looks like a mummy mabel dosnt get the chance to talk to dipper as he drives away
Now the implication is that dipper would only get more socially inept and would not *REALLY* be happy which is why I think 99.999% of fanfics say dipper would still go to Gravity Falls High and be Ford's apprentice after school
My take dipper needs all the training he can get if he wants to be a SCP Foundation scientist for a spinoff
Yeah I can see that
True that’s kinda of how I thought it would’ve been. Ford would know Dipper has to at least finish High School and once the rift was closed Ford would be more relaxed. So the apprenticeship would be like an after school thing
There’s actually a crossover document called Occurrence of Oddness and it’s on RUclips
I agree with most of your points except the money one. I’m pretty sure most colleges or agencies would be throwing money at inter dimensional travel. Especially since he still has the machine
Not to mention that in the series Ford already explained how he did experiments for the goverment and earnt a lot of money over them, like the mind controlling tie, so I highly doubt he would be out of money.
I absolutely adore Dipper and Ford but I totally agree. Dipper shouldn’t have accepted. Not only is it bad for a child like you said, but also him not accepting the apprenticeship caused a lot of good things to happen. The Stan twins were able to go adventuring together instead like they always dreamed of. Soos became the man of mystery. Dipper and Mabel were able to grow up normally. And I feel like it might’ve humbled Ford a bit. Ford has some flaws that should be addressed (doesn’t stop him from being one of my favorite characters.) unfortunately though, the way this was handled wasn’t the smartest since Dipper literally hasn’t gotten a single thing he wanted this entire show. He always sacrificed something for Mabel or for others. But regardless, this is something that I do agree with.
Not to mention that they could release a danger to the world
Tbf, while Dipper may not have gotten the chance to be with Wendy, he did find out who The Author was and not only that, found out he’s related to the guy. And on top of that, he eventually befriended him through a game of their universe’s version of DnD.
That’s pretty cool, honestly.
I can’t put it into words properly but I feel like dipper sacrificing his own interests for Mabel actually contributes to him as a person positively. Even in the Bipper episode Mabel fully acknowledges that her brother would drop everything for her. Even if he doesn’t realize it Mabel gives him the strength to fight. Even when he had to fight a giant robot Gideon.
I agree that the alternate version of Dipper’s ideal fantasy of living with Ford as an apprentice would have been more ideal than the Wendy scene. Wish they somehow made that scene work.
I think Dipper should have taken the apprenticeship when his a little older and has a little more worldly experience and social skills.
But in all honesty the writing for the decision really felt rushed and again makes Dipper sacrifice something for Mabel. Dipper was being fairly reasonable about the apprenticeship and promised to stay in contact with Mabel, but she just guilts him and kida harasses him about it. It really puts Mabel in an unpleasant light with the whole 'Well it's a horrible opportunity for me!' line really rubs me the wrong way. Look I get Mabel was having a bad day, but she was being rather selfish to her brother. In the end she should have encouraged Dipper to take the apprenticeship and say she was happy and support him.
YES. He absolutely should’ve. He had so much more potential.
My question was always, "There is a High School in Gravity Falls, why couldn't Mabel just go to school there while Dipper has his apprenticeship with Ford?" They didn't have to be seperated.
The only answer I can suggest is that Mabel doesn't live in Gravity Falls.
Dipper & Mabel aren't from Gravity Falls originally
@@justjoannak yeah they weren't.
But the apprenticeship wouldn't have been a good thing for Dipper
I'm not against Dipper saying No, if it felt more like him reflecting and less trying to appease Mable to go back to reality.
Personally I think Dipper should have taken the apprenticeship, but only for like a year, heck even just a few months. Kids taking semesters off isnt that rare, especially to help their "Family business" so to speak.
It could have been as simple as Dipper taking the apprenticeship during the summers, and that way the boy wouldn't be giving up anything while also following his regular life. But the show never gives him that option, it honestly comes to a point where the narrative paints Dipper in the wrong for even wanting to accomplish anything on his own or dreaming.
@@dracoangelrojo Either that or have it be an after school type of deal we’re he goes to one of the schools in Gravity Falls and helps Ford out.
@@BlueBlazeKing Or have it during the summers.
@@dracoangelrojo Basically Ford just gave the idea of an apprenticeship and if Dipper talked to Ford about it, they could’ve came to a more realistic option. It wouldn’t have to be “Dipper spends most of his teens in a lab.” Essentially it was an idea the two haven’t worked out all of the details out yet
@@BlueBlazeKing Exactly, there easily could have been many other options that allowed Dipper to take the apprenticeship without having to staying away, even Ford gave him time to think about it, but the fact that he calls his dreams and chance "a ridiculous fantasy" just to please his sister rubs in the wrong way.
7:30 bro predicted billford before it was confirmed
For real
It is a bad idea.
I didn't agree with Ford because it felt like he was just treating Dipper like an extension of himself. It was his second chance to experience the good ol' days before Bill Cipher and before he lost 30 years after getting sucked into his own interdimensional portal. He just wanted to live through Dipper vicariously. Of course Dipper is going to fall for his grunkle's praise. He's an insecure teenager. Nobody else really complimented Dipper for his intellectual and talents quite like grunkle Stanford.
I wouldn't want the kind of life Ford had. That's not just because he spent years being tormented by Bill Cipher. He's a genius but he also had absolutely no social networking and zero ally support after he burned bridges with mcgucket. He was a hermit isolated alone in the woods. I know Dipper would get tired of hanging out with Ford instead of people his own age. I don't think Ford was in the right headspace to be a full time parental figure to a teenager.
it is important that kids realize they don't HAVE to follow the expected path in life. i got through the first half of a university degree TWICE before realizing that i was far better suited to an apprenticeship in a specialist construction field. seeing young apprentices who found their path a full-ass decade ahead of me makes me a bit jealous tbh, and i wish i'd gone to a trade school like these fellas. its important to finish a certain amount of school in order to have the opportunities available, but it's not like kids can NEVER find their path in life ahead of schedule.
For me no. Dipper is still a kid and the same thing that happend between stan and ford could happen between mabel and dipper again both of them are still kids and his parents might even say no to this because dipper still needs to live his chilhood hes barely even going through puberty yet
You're talking as if the apprenticeship and the schollarship had been the problems that had created the issues between Stan and Ford and Dipper and Mabel. The reason why Stan and Ford ended up like that wasn't because of Ford going to college, it was because Stan couldn't handle the thought of not having Ford around anymore because he didn't feel worth himself of anything without his twin, and the problem between Mabel and Dipper was the same, with Mabel not accepting the idea of not having Dipper around her 24/7.
I feel like Dipper should do the mentorship after college or high school. That way he can still go to school and get the experience and be with Mabel for their high school years.
I think my main beef was Dipper was not given a chance to DECIDE on his own without pressure or a sense of obligation to others. I have to say this is my one major beef with the narrative in Gravity Falls as I re-watch the show is the underline tones of unfairness with Dipper and Mabel's character arcs. Even if Alex in a commentary mentions a delted scene showing Dipper may have socially suffered from the apprenticeship from Ford (especially a Ford who didn't forgive Stan and come to terms post Weirdmageddon). However, as pointed out in your other videos Dipper's lack of true agency in favor of Mabel's emotional needs and the janky Aseop writing makes me feel the real CRUX of the question is 'should Dipper have been ALLOWED to take the apprenticeship without interference?'
I say yes, because no matter how you slice it, things would have changed following Weirdmageddon because as long as THAT happened, Ford would be a better person, and I'd like to think a better mentor, and probably see to it, Dipper wasn't isolated from everyone (nor himself). Plus given the Stan Bros. went on their world tour following Summer's end, Dipper was going to have the entire school year to look forward too before a chance at his apprenticeship.
Even if Weirdmageddon didn't happen, again the choice should still have been Dipper's to make, without having to reconsider or give it up entirely for someone else's benefit, which no matter how the show tried to frame it... he DID. Alex and his co-writers much as I love them, failed utterly be it their fondness for Mabel over-wrote their ability to balance the scales or they were just incapable of seeing all the threads they should have accounted for when writing the finale and the character arcs coming to a close. Much as I respect Alex for keeping Gravity Falls short-ish to avoid another Phinas and Ferb thing, I feel he should have had another season to flesh things out more and then wrap the story. Too much was rushed at the end, and as time goes on it eats at my original uninterrupted enjoyment of the show. I still love it, but the writer in me CRINGES more and more as time goes on.
I'd say yes. It'd be HIS choice to accept. So many choices Dipper could pick but gets influenced to choose what the influencer's want.
Your idea for Dippers vision in Mable land would’ve been amazing. Maybe what was behind that mysterious door Dipper didn’t want to look at in Mable Land was a fake Ford he could apprentice with and go on wacky adventures only for him to realize that there wouldn’t really be any break time between adventures
Plus, he probably wouldn’t of had a normal high school/teenage life.
Basically he should’ve figured out for *HIMSELF* without Mabel or Ford, that he didn’t want it. That’s my opinion.
Agreed, the problem isn't that he took the apprenticeship or not, the problem is that the show didn't allow him to take that decision by himself without anyone's influence or pressure, and therefore it didn't feel natural or honest. It seriously makes it feel like Dipper was forced to give up something he wanted, which is beyond unfair after seeing the entire series repeating the same vicious cycle.
@@dracoangelrojo
Exactly. Especially the last part you stated: seeing the entire series repeating the same vicious cycle. It felt like he wanted it, but then he didn’t. However he didn’t even get to figure that out naturally by himself.
@@anyone1111 You've nailed the main issue here: Dipper was NEVER allowed to figure things out on his own without anyone's influence or pressure, and therefore his choice doesn't feel his own, and let alone honest. The narrative portraying Dipper making such a life changing decision by getting guiltripped and threatened by his own twin sister when the world's future and their lives are at stake as being the right take is flippant.
@@dracoangelrojo
Wow thanks! And yes exactly! It still hurts knowing he always pretty much sacrificed a lot for her, and when it mattered most to him as well as the world was in danger, she couldn’t reciprocate that decency/ kindness to him?
How sad that it was dealt with in that way.
@@anyone1111 Exactly. It's even worse considering she pretty much proved that his sacrifices mean NOTHING to her, as she doesn't consider him supportive enough to actually replace him him, considering him disposable instead. How much that had to hurt him, that his sister, the one he tried to rescue after going through the litteral hell on earth, basically created a copy that was a huge jab to all his insecurities, considering him replacable and disposable, and called it a day.
the book of bill also kind of gives another reason why mabel acted the way she did, but I'm not going to spoil it
Da force
Honestly, taking up that offer would have been impossible. First off, their parents wouldn't have approved of sending their son off to some unknown relative who appeared out of nowhere. Also, staying with Ford would have meant quitting his education and leaving his life, home and family behind which doesn't really sound appropriate for a young 13 year old boy. And at the end, we all saw that Ford and Stan went to fullfill their childhood dream - going on adventures together with the Stan'O war boat. Taking up the apprentice ship offer would have led to Ford staying in Gravity Falls with Dipper instead of going on adventures with Stan.
Apprenticeship or not I really wish that BOTH of the twins had stayed in Gravity Falls and had gone to the school there instead of going back to their home town; the show's final episode gave me the impression that Dipper and Mable didn't really have any friends back in California and only kept each other company, untill they came to Oregon and met Soos, Wendy,Grenda and Candy plus Pacifica just to name some and not to mention practiclly became the town's heros. I of course don't know for a fact that they have no friends back in Piedmont we don't even know what their parents look like; but from what I saw in those 2 flash backs while in "Mable Land" they appeared to be outcast who were bullied and laughed at by their peers, especially poor Dipper who got 0 Valentines while his sister got probably like a dozen so CLEARLY some people like her.
Mable did say that she won’t stop him and he was no longer interested so we would not have had fun
Yes he himself realized that it was not going to be good for him as he would have been more isolated like Ford and preferred to grow up with his sister instead.
She realized that not only her brother will support her but a lot of people who are close to her as well that's why she told him he can take the apprenticeship
I honestly think that gravity falls would make more sence and be better if the twins were mid teens or younge adult so them being emotionally chaotic, and like you said the offer would seem more realistic
If the twins were older, than Dipper would no doubt have Wendy for a SO.
Yeah, Mabel is just, too selfish and needy, Dipper probrably shouldnt have accepted it, yet, but she demanded to take away his decision.
Aldo this has the potential of a more wholesone more paranormal Rick and Morty style adventure
It would've been a gigantic step of awesomeness.
Dipper could've become Doctor Strange.
I think Dipper needed Mabel as much as Mabel needed Dipper. they get each other. yeah they bicker but they have each other and during childhood thats a lot. they would always have each other's backs and without each other he could fall into being reclusive as they finish growing. Mabel would be split from the one guy that got her. its bad enough she has to leave her best friends and who knows if the parents let her keep waddles.
Honestly, I feel that it’s fine that they focused a lot on Mabel, I feel like this conflict shows the difference between the twins first instincts, Mabel being more emotional and not seeing the logical benefits and Dipper seeing only from a logical perspective and not seeing the emotional downsides. That dynamic is the core of the show and emotional reactions just tend to take the spotlight when pitted against a calmer reaction.
(Though, I could see how if you don’t like Mabel as a character, this interpretation would mean less, I haven’t seen your Mabel video so I don’t know what issues you have with her character)
The problem isn't that they focused on Mabel, the problem is that they didn't hold her accountable for her actions and placed Dipper exclusively as "the bad guy" in the situation. Mabel feeling upset from the emotional point is reallistic, I agree, but that shouldn't give her a free pass to pull all the horrible stunts she did through Dipper and Mabel vs The Future and Escape From Reality, where she single-handledly guilted and accused her brother of abandoning her for wanting to follow his carreer, trapped the entire town against their will in a time bubble forever to keep her brother from ever being able to follow his dreams, replaced him with a copy that insults him as a human being and spits all over his unconditional love and support for her, and blackmails him by sending him to a trial under the threat that if he doesn't give up the apprenticeship, she's gonna kick him out in the apocalypse she created (and she knows it, both the series and the comics leave that clear), and only accepts to come back under her terms. And after that, the show rewards her with getting everything she wanted again, at her brother's expense, and she isn't even called out for anything she did, implying that she was absolutely in the right and Dipper in the wrong. That's so wrong in so many levels we could do an entire video about it.
I can't believe I didn't think about the glaring problem with working with Ford. It would be good for him after he graduates Highschool or College. He's becoming more of his own person. I think there's a lot he can learn from Ford and partner up from time to time. But after everything he went through in a few months, I think he can take care of himself and become his own paranormal investigator.
The number one reason why Dipper/Mason should absolutely not be Ford's apprentice is because of the fact that Mason and Mable could face divorce. So the moment that Mable found out, must've been devastating to her.
Ford was kind of a jerk to Mabel and he didn't give her any credit for all of her accomplishments. She was there with Dipper during all of his adventures against the monsters and SHE figured out about the weaknesses of the gnomes and SHE figured out how to defeat Bill on multiple occasions. They both could have stayed in gravity falls and been apprentices of Ford part time and stayed in school in gravity falls. Ford totally threw Mabel by the wasteside and didnt give her any credit in general or take her seriously when she rlly did deserve just as much as Dipper
What an idiot.
Trying to justify Mabel’s behavior
Given what we know now about the parents probably getting a divorce, it makes the offer 10 times worse for Mabel. Her parents are split up, and Dipper is gone. Her home life would be horrible
having been Homeschooled myself, i kinda feel like i was socially better adjusted then most of my pears at the time and even still meany years later.
granted how well Homeschooling works out has a lot to do with the parents and mine did a fine job with me, I just find it untrue that homeschooling means someone is poorly socialized by default.
everything else seems very well reasoned! this will be a great channel for me to watch video essays about shows i haven't watched!
"granted how well Homeschooling works out has a lot to do with the parents"
Say it again for those in the back.
Wouldn’t his parents be worried sick? Their only son is gone & is with a individual claiming to be long-lost relative. Said relative is involved with crazy crap.
I mean I think they would be more worried that Stan stole his identity and lied to them if that were to come up
Considering they were the ones who sent both of their kids for over 3 months to this same individual...I mean, you guys keep forgetting that the parents fully believe that Stan is Ford, since Stan took over his identity. The one they think is dead is Stan.
No, have you ever seen them? No, they send their kids away so they can have some alone time.
7:32 aged INCREDIBLY well
As a twin myself, it always annoys me that Ford didn't spot the parallels between this situation and his own history with Stan.
I like your spider-man reference as I think if the show did have a more fleshed out series of episodes that would be a flash forward episode and as a chance for J.K simmons to spout out, "I want pictures of spiderman!!!"
I mean, I understand why the show left Dipper with Mabel. Specially since, while Ford had good intentions, he also was projecting himself on Dipper and the young succesfull life he never had because of his brother. In the end, Ford got to still keep investigating mysterys with his bro, not caring about the age, they both did what made them happy.
But also, I feel like it would've bee great to Dipper to accept the offert. He was never popular on Piedmont, Mabel was more sociable than him, he was possibbly bullied or well, he could be the "weird kid" no one liked in his class, his parents probably don't care about his dreams neither. When Dipper telld Ford what he wants to do in the future he just says with little confidence to just survive the school, pass the college and by a little chance make his own show.
With all that in context, it would ve been nice to Dipper to actually accomplish dreams, have a high education and stay under the lessons of his great uncle who actually respects hims
And as for Mabel... While it's understable her feelings, she simply has no control on his brother's life. And in the end of Mabeland, she told him that if he wanted to go, she would accept it.
This more personal, but while I agree on the show being family friendly and giving good mesages about loving your family. I didn't like how they put it as it was something wrong for Dipper to actually follows his own motivations. Even DIpper wasn't confident about it. And it's not like he will never come back, he can visit por holidays, New Year and text mabel.
I think that is good to teach messages about loving your family and friends. But I also think it's good for kids to teach them to actually follow and respect their own motivations.
So yeah, in my opinion is good that he stayed with Mabel, but also it would not have been bad if he decided to go.
I think the apprenticeship was a good offer, given at the wrong time. Ford was not in a place to be a mentor to someone Dipper's age, or even necessarily a mentor at all.
And Dipper at age 12 doesn't have the kind of life experience to navigate a dangerous apprenticeship - not as a slight against Dipper, but I think if he had become Ford's apprentice he'd have found himself extremely isolated and overworked, and even adults who are otherwise confident and skilled can have trouble sticking up for themselves in that situation - even when they don't rely on their boss for housing, education, and external validation.
I would say yes, this is something he is more than happy to do with his life he enjoys mysteries, science and adventuring this would have been something Dipper would have loved to have continue doing and Ford can teach him so much due to his vast knowledge of science and interdimensional travel.
Ford is although stubborn and secluded himself that's mostly due to his own personal family drama and research mixed in with the incident with Bill, he still loves and respects his family minus Stan before the shows ending, such as with the way he treated Mabel for example and the happiness he displayed learning his sibling had grandkids.
I don't doubt that he would have allowed dipper breaks if he felt too exhausted or when he felt lonely without Mabel and his folks.
Unlike with Mabel where they come from Dipper wasn't treated with much respect or had friends as a result of his personality and his interest gravity falls gave him that as such even if he is busy with Ford he would still have people who will support him like Soos, Wendy and her friend's,fiddleford, Pacifica and Stan if he remained there for example.
The two main downsides apart from the obsessed research angle and potentially lack of social interaction imo can be easily circumvented due to Dippers friends at gravity falls and if Mabel visits and communicates is that he may get hurt due to the experiments and adventures and there is no real defence for that the adventures have an will always be dangerous but giving ford and dipper credit they haven't died yet they survived everything life threw at them and still made it out strong that shows they're capabilities to be able to successfully survive the falls and Ford carries a lot of tech and knowledge to protect both of them not only that but I am sure ford will restrict certain missions until dipper is either grown up or truly ready for the more dangerous tasks especially if he has to deal with dippers parents as well as remember he still has to answer to and convince them of allowing him to take dipper which most likely would mean regular checks between them and Dipper.
The other issue is dippers age and how long he has to accept, as for dippers age he admittedly is young to make this kind of decision as such concern is understandable which is why above all else it's the parents responsibility to address this point perhaps they can reason out with Ford to accept him later on when he is older like 15 or 16 for example or simply just say no till he is an adult at the end of the day it's their decision not dippers but let's not forget that ford has a point dipper is a smart, capable, brave and mature for his age look at everything he has accomplished I am sure he would thrive in the environment and would be able to make a logical decision but only if he had time which he didn't if he had though and with Mabel offering a reasonable opposing opinion like she should have instead making it all about her Dipper could have effectively weighed pros and cons which would make his final decision more believable then what it was due to it looking like a snap decision.
As I said before Dipper would most likely be able to talk to and interact with Mabel and his family still through numerous methods of communication from writing to each other, through phone calls, zoom or any such platform or hell just visiting one another Mabel can still come like every summer or vice versa they and their parents can still interact with each other it's not like they will never see each other again.
The main issue is that Dipper for me never had a real choice he never had time to weigh the pros and cons due to weirdmaggeden and being guilt tripped by Mabel before hand I mean she is literally willing to let the world burn and insultingly replace him with a version with the opposite personality because he was interested in the offer no wonder he declined it.
had Dipper been able to properly rationalize the offer and then declined it I would have been ok with it but how Mabel reacted seemed to be the only reason he declined, its unfair he looses the opportunity of a life time due to the sister he constantly supports and loves guilt trips him into saying no deliberately or not due to her inability to give Dipper what he has done for her support in their decisions.
Agree
People forget that Ford also had friends and people he was connected to before his sudden disappearance. His hand deformity easily allows people to see the differences between him and his twin.
I can't agree with you enough, seriously you deserve far more votes. Brilliant explanation.
Couldn't have said it better myself
Honestly it could have worked he could have gone during the summers or after he finished high school or heck if he needed to do college then do college then become his apprentice those all seem like solid options to me
I mean I thought it was going to be an after school type of deal. There are schools in Gravity Falls so he could’ve just went to a local school and in his off time work with Ford
Very much a case of good points being delivered in bad ways. Ford has known firsthand how codependency between siblings can be detrimental with the way Stanley reacted to the possibility of him leaving because of how much having and being a twin brother had become Stanley’s identity. Even when he’d majorly screwed things up with stranding Ford beyond the portal Stan dedicated his life to learning how to fix it just to bring Ford back. Ford has seen how much of a shadow Mabel casts over Dipper, and the potential in Dipper as well as that as much as they don’t want to they need to develop as individuals. In Summerween Dipper was cast as in the wrong for wanting to strike out on his own endeavours instead of doing another cutesy twin costume trick or treating, the narrative punishing him for taking steps into growing up by presenting a hold on to your youth moral. The idea that Dipper and Mabel are their own people as much as they are twins is a good one, and one the series ran out of time to explore properly.
The problem is it comes from Ford, who doesn’t have the insight to realise the practicalities of his offer. He never had a healthy lifestyle or outlook on life once he left home, costing him a relationship with his parents (his father is no real loss) and his twin brother because he couldn’t properly communicate. What also hurts the message is that this was Mabel’s Terrible, No Good, Very Bad Day and not for once because of her messing something up. Her worldview was breaking down, her perceptions of the future torn apart and she had to end up eavesdropping on the conversation that opened up the possibility of her one reliable thing in her twin brother, not being there. This automatically makes her more sympathetic because she’s at an emotional low and Bill like Ursula knows an emotional low is the idea way to make a deal with someone that’s entirely stacked in your favour.
I can confidently say I was yelling at the TV to take the apprenticeship
One thing that they unfortunately left out of the show, but is still canon is apprently that Dipper and Mabel's parents have been fighting.
Dipper wouldn't just be leaving Mabel to go through secondary school alone, but he would also be leaving her with their divorcing parents.
Also, the scene where they make up is one where they are talking about how they handle their struggles together because that's always how things have always turned out alright.
It's a simple answer, but it's also why Stan responded to Ford, asking how they make it so easy, by saying "easy, they're kids". They don't have all the complexities of adulthood in their face yet or decades of built up trauma. What they have are three problems, and they see that if they stick together then they'll be able to support each other through all of it.
I would say he should have, worst case scenario he decided it wasn't for him, but being stuck with Mabel of all people, a selfish girl who wanted him to miss out something that if he enjoyed could have been his whole life, was honestly a horrible decision, he and ford deserved better!
If you do a video on Pacifica, you should at least bring up the lost legends story. It’s ridiculous how little it’s talked about
"In my experience, the smart kids are the popular ones!" That's something I've been wondering about for a while. I always hear about how the smart kids are the ones who get bullied, but when I was in school, and it wasn't that long ago, I was always at the top of my class and I also always had a fair amount of friends. No one EVER picked on me; if anything, I was the one who needed to be less of a jerk. I never got any sort of vibe from anyone else that my intelligence wasn't something to be proud of. So I always kinda wonder if school social structures really work the way everyone says they do, because I never experienced any of that.
Ford is a super genius in his mid to late 50s, to early 60s, basically he's on his way out. Not only is it an amazing opportunity for dipper, it's also an amazing opportunity to the rest of the world because right now when ford goes for whatever reason, most of his understanding of magic goes with him and the world at large loses out on all the miraculous technology he's made blending math and magic
I feel like the creators knew that Mabel Was in the wrong and so made that line where she allows him to accept it after they leave the bubble so they can say "Well Mabel allowed him to take the apprenticeship. Dipper chose to reject it and wasn't forced by Mabel"
Dipper should have gone with Ford. He was clearly happier in Gravity Falls than anywhere else.
No one socializes well when their miserable, and it's pretty clear Dipper was unhappy at home.
In contrast, Gravity Falls sees him developing relationship with Soos, Wendy, and even one time enemy Pacifica Northwest.
As far as education or money is concerned, if Ford's education is even half as good as he claims, then he has more to offer Dipper than any public school.
Not to mention he's sitting on a gold mine of scientific discovery that (as far as I can figure) is only not making money because Ford is keeping it to himself.
Yeah they might be screwed over by the government or a private agency, but the former in this universe is a dumb as a bunch of rocks, and they've outwitted the latter every time.
They're going to have to keep a eye on Fiddleford Mcgucket anyway. Two birds, one stone, and all that.
So there's not a single good reason why Dipper shouldn't become his apprentice, and none of this is taking into account his parents, who might veto this whole thing anyway.
2:51 I think it might be a wish fulfillment thing, or as a way to teach children to not bully. "bullying is bad, so so we're portraying bullies as dumb and/or rich snobs" even tho like you said it's not realistic
With new book we got new info and one of it is about Dipper and Mable's parents fighting
I'm right there with you on the reasons why Dippr taking on Ford apprenticeship is a bad idea. These were my conclusion too on why. Also that siblings shouldn't be seperated until they are ready, especially during their formative years. Ford came off projecting his issues with his brother with Dipper and Mabel's, calling it 'suffocating'. Mabel came be too much at times but i don't think it had caused him any long term resentfulness. Great idea on how that mabel-land scene could have gone for Dipper, his dream being an actual nightmare thus his coclusion during the trial doesn't come off out from nowhere.
15:51, "And while I think Pacifica has a great ark, and I definitely ship these two..."
THAT'S ALL I NEED TO HEAR! It's official, Kitty Monk is AWESOME RUclipsR! No more doubt about that! Can't wait for that Pacifica video!
Mabel is a kid so I often understand her "feelings," she deserves those. However I don't like how a tale about growing up frequently allows Mabel resolution after a bad decision without her facing the consequences, or worse, making her ultimately right in the end. This especially hits home since there's such a stark contrast with how Dipper's bad decisions usually end up with him suffering in some way or giving up something he really really wanted in order to pacify Mabel. This does happen with siblings in real life so I can't say it's unrealistic, but it's "unsatisfying" from a narrative and audience perspective. Also it's important to note that those IRL situations typically create a rift between siblings over time rather than bringing them closer.
Ya know I read an online fan comic where a simple solution to this problem was Mable simply becoming Gruncle Stan's apprentice. Where he could teach her to scam-er! run a business!
the realistic solution is working with ford during summers until like 16. switch to homeschooling with ford if he's still up for it, get a diploma within the year and start college level stuff. 2 years with ford then go to college to speedrun a degree with clep tests.
It's what it should have been done, honestly, th really frustrating thing is how Dipper just calls his dreams a ridiculous fantasy (something completely out of character), lies about the apprenticeship, and disregards it completely. It honestly feels like he is just throwing away his life dream away for Mabel and saying what she wants to hear.
Despite what you may expect, I am not disappointed that you think Dipper should not have become Ford's apprentice, mainly because you thought through how it would affect Dipper much better than Alex Hirsch. Just because he turned Season 3 into the second half of Season 2 does not mean he had to gloss over Dipper's character arc explaining why it is a bad idea for him to accept Ford's apprenticeship and leave Mabel behind. I like your idea with how Weirdmageddon Part 2: Escape From Reality could have incorporated Dipper's feelings about becoming Ford's apprenticeship - instead of a fake bug Wendy saying "In this place, you can be any age you want. If we were the same age, maybe you and me could, you know, actually be together." the part of the story where Dipper wants to go back to the real world could instead be preceded by Dipper having fun exploring mysteries with a fake bug Ford who keeps him away from finding Mabel, always asking him to uncover another mystery. It would be much more funny to watch while also serving Dipper's character arc, so we know how Mabeland could have helped him come to that decision at the end of Weirdmageddon Part 2. June 25, 2022, 6:54am
I really enjoy your look at the situation. It made me realize some things I actually hadn't before about how the apprenticeship probably would have gone :0
Maybe thw apprenticeship was a bad idea but Dipper should definitely stay in Gravity Falls
In Piedmont he is a freak and outsider who gets bullied, has no friends and can't pursue his dreams or hobbies
Those are all things he has or is able to in Gravity Falls
Furthermore things in Piedmont are gonna get worse for Dipper because he is definitly gonna have PTSD from Bill and being scared of triangles is just perfect "getting bullied" material. And he can't even tell anyone exept for Mabel that he has a trauma and tho Mabel would try to help him with that, she is a kid and isn't equiped with helping people suffering from PTSD
Now maybe one could say he got stronger in Gravity Falls and could beat his bullies but the only Person he successfully beat was a 9 year old
My answers for both questions are different.
Should dipper have done the apprenticeship? Yes.
Is dipper wrong for turning down the apprenticeship? No.
On afew points though. Dipper shadowing ford would have been a bit more then "shadowing an old man" cause as he said. "12 phds"
Also do you really think mable would be locked in her room after school? We have no real indication of that...
Edit 2: my main point is that in the show it doesn't feel like dippers choice. It feels like dipper being pressured into it and simply not going back on his promise.
I'm at the start of the video but I'll put my opinion here before watching since I felt pretty strongly about this part of the ending.
Dipper absolutely should have been aloud to go with Ford. It's clearly where his passion is and would have set him up for his future in that field.
Mabel guilting him into staying with her for her own clear personal interests instead of being a supportive sister rubbed me the wrong way.
Eh. I don’t think it would be good for Dip to become a social shut in at 13.
Something that always weighs on my mind regarding this: It felt really disrespectful and honestly kind of gross for the show to have Dipper mock his own feelings and previous choices as ridiculous when convincing Mabel to come out of the Bubble, given so much of his arc has been conquering his insecurities and tendency to put himself down because they drive his worst decisions. After a series of others making fun of him, he's mocking himself to appease Mabel. It's like Weirdmageddon Part 2 didn't just screw up Mabel's arc, it threw Dipper's in the trash with it. Dipper could have made whatever decision he wanted, but the fact that he feels he has to belittle himself to convince Mabel he's changed his mind really hurt and upset me.
When you argue your point like that, it's more cons then pros to sure. Even if Dipper went out often, he doesn't even have any friends his age as Grendel and Candy as Marble's friends, Pacifica while an option, can't be the ONLY person his age he hangs out with and Wendy and the teens...well, enough said there. Of course, they could easily have altered the deal as its not like they weren't going to return for their summers, so why not make them summer apprenticeships? Lots of kids get jobs over the summer, and Dipper would be learning at the same time, it'll be like Summer school but they PAY you. Time isn't even that big of a factor as look how much they got done in one, how much Dipper learned largely by himself as Ford only returned near the end.
It would give Dipper a chance to 'dip his toes' in, so by the time he's deciding if he does want to head to college, for Stan and Ford to clear things up with Ford's identity, show off some of what he learned to start up those university grants, and even introduce Dipper and Mabel's parents as surely they would want to meet their..uncle? The twins call him great-uncle, so he's their parent's uncle...but in the flashback, there's no mention of a 3rd sibling that could be one of their parents, so how ARE they related...NEVERMIND, THE SHOW DOESN'T MAKE ANYHTING OF IT, SO NEITHER WILL I. Point is, that while the offer in its present form is pretty bad, it can be easily changed and it's strange that the show never points that out, though its understandably as the creator didn't want to drag things out as he was suffering from burnout.
As much as it would’ve been cool Dipper is 12 and should be in school, it could’ve been like a summer thing or weekend thing but honestly Ford really isn’t in the position to look after a kid
Palpatine controlling Ford: Dipper, become my apprentice and you'll learn how to save your wife.
Dipper: Uh... I don't have a wife...
Palpy: OH, CRAP. WRONG UNIVERSE.
Honestly, I wouldn't have been so against Dipper taking the apprenticeship if Ford had put emphasis on him going to school in gravity falls and getting free time to work on his own things in addition to apprenticing with Ford. I also don't like that they were going to disregard Stan entirely- whether he likes it or not, Stan built a life there. He kept his brother's work safe, and made money on the side. I feel like the show doesn't put much emphasis on the fact that Stan did his best to make up for his shitty actions.
This might be a hot take, but I'm going to say that Mabel wasn't being greedy by having Dipper sacrifice his dream life to be with her. Throughout part 1 of Weirdmaggeddion, Dipper realized that he and Mabel were unstoppable when they did things together. In part 2, he realized that his reality will have problems, even if he accepts Ford's offer. He knew that with his sister by his side, he could conquer whatever reality has to throw at him. He'd have his sister with him in those rough times in his life. Even when we reach our dreams, life always finds a way to throw rough times at us. It's through the help of loved ones that we can endure the pain.
As a side note: I'm aware of the possibility from the Book of Bill that their parents might be getting a divorce. Rather than accept Ford's offer to stay away from the issue, Dipper is basically deciding to confront the uncertain future by choosing to have his sister with him.
In conclusion, Dipper needs Mabel just as much as Mabel needs him.
I fully agree, I think it would make more sense if he joined ford after high school.
They couldn’t have mable land show him in the future like Alex hirch wanted because why would bill let that happen
Why?
Mable was being a brat. I understand she was dealing with stuff but it would be like some 1 winning the lottery and a family member telling them that gambling is a sin and they should throw the ticket away, destroy it or what ever
Of course he should have taken the offer. Who wants to live a normal life in an office space when you could be having wacky inter dimensional adventures?
I think if we did get more screen time, we could have a forgiveness arc for McGucket and ford, where fiddleford could take dippers role.
I agree, that would've been so cute to see
7:33 bro is a time traveler😭😭
she had a vision XD
I agree, I'm sorry but even if Dipper agrees, this is not his decision to makes. His parents would not just let their 12 year old live on his own with a guy who they never even met, no matter he is family, like this. Let's be real, Ford's offer was out of place and he would probobly never be a good mentor to him, knowing his personality and asocial tendencies.
Finally, someone says what I'm thinking. People blame Mabel for this when they don't even think about how the parents would think. Think about this, their parents find out about everything that happened Stan lied to them the real Stanford was trapped in another dimension for years. I mean I can see the trust between Stanly and the twins' parents would be lost in fact I head cannon the trust was broken so bad the twins weren't allowed to come back to Gravity Falls due to their parents fearing their safety. Not to mention they did not want Dipper taking the apprentice deal.
@@creativecutieprincessd People blame Mabel because Mabel is the one blackmailing him to give it up for her in the middle of the apocalypse. The problem isn't that Dipper says yes or no to the apprenticeship, the problem is that Dipper's decision doesn't feel like his own because he is being guilted and pressured and blackmailed by his sister in the middle of the apocalypse, and she gets away with it.
Parents, what parents, there are no parents. Oh, you mean those unknown people that barely show up and send Dipper and Mable to live with Stan so they can have some alone time?
@@Nameless82284They thought he was Ford
@@craigpeoples9883 Well they thought wrong.
Can say as an honors student from experience I was more picked on by my honors peers and fit in more with the non-honors students. They were popular and I was most definitely not. Just my two cents though.
Probably would end up dying in the weirdmeggedon according to the book of Bill since any other versions of the twins died except the original ones
Hello! Will you make a video about Thompson? I was… a little uncomfortable when him constantly being mistreated by his “friends” was played off as a joke, and no one seems to talk about that (just like no one talks about Dipper’s mistreatment)
Agreed, as much as I love Gravity Falls, the way this show supports toxic relationships is scary and concerning.
Let's just hope that Stanley kept sending Ford birthday cards 🙏
Coldest take I’ve ever seen about this show
I feel like if Ford had a bit more character development, like we're he learns not to only focus on work because it's partly why he and his brother got into that fight , then I could see it being a bit better for dipper because it would allow him to socialize and do other fun stuff but as the show stands I agreed that he shouldn't have taken the offer
i think you put the finger on it there, why i dont like Mabel.
Dipper always makes sacrifices for her, and suffers her random, and has to deal with what she wants and she gives him... maybe some stickers once? a hug?
my point is that the relationship is a one way street, dipper giving to her, and her taking from and annoying him.
she has skills and charm and an awesome pig but she is also very selfish.
I feel like the story would have been a Little more cohesive if Dipper had Argued with Ford and showed more Frustration at the "isn't it suffocating" line. Having him Clearly Upset at the idea that Ford said something like that abt his Best Friend would make his speech to Mabel later feel more genuine, without having to stretch the story out another episode. It puts him in more doubt about the apprenticeship before the high of saving Ford convinces him to accept, and it makes the payoff a bit more satisfying.
2:56 "Dipper discovers a journal, not 3." I might humor this part (I also do weird humor that makes people think what I said)... It's like calling it not a third journal when it literally has a number 3 as the only title name.
So basically...in a nutshell, if Dipper had accepted, Dipper would've ended up in a similar situation like Morty.
There's also another detail that no one mentions about why Dipper's choice feels so forced, and it's the fact that:
a) Dipper outright lied during his speech of "I thought you were living a fantasy but look at me: spending my teenage years cooped up in a basement with a lab coat? How ridiculous is that?" because Ford and Dipper NEVER did that: does Dipper think that Ford spent his entire time writing the journals in the lab, that he found the mysteries and creatures in the bedroom closet? No, he spent YEARS just exploring Gravity Falls as we saw in A Tale of Two Stans and even in Journal 3. Heck, even Dipper himself just studying and reading the journals spent most of the time outside exploring. And even Dipper's first mission with Ford was being taken to an UFO. Not to mention he LITTERALLY just called his dreams and future "a ridiculous fantasy" after he claimed it had been the best day of his life. It feels completely out of character coming from him and out of the blue, it doesn't feel honest because he is lying both about the apprenticeship and about himself. It doesn't come off as Dipper choosing what he wants to do, it comes off as Dipper saying what Mabel wants to hear to get her out of there and giving up his dreams and future for her, like he constantly did through the series.
b) Mabel is litterally blackmailing him by sending him to a trial under the threat of "if you don't convince me to come out of Bill's trap by giving up your dreams, I'll kick you out into the apocalypse I accidentally created, not helping you and replace you with a back-up Dipper that is nothing like you but I prefer over you because he does everything I say, because I don't care everything you've done for me so far", and the fact that she only agrees once he does what she wanted him to do.
He himself rejected it.
He meant he was going to spend most of his younger days with his grunkle just studying and stuff.
He wanted to grow up with her instead.
The message of the show is enjoying childhood before it comes to ruin.
That's not what the show is about.
When did she say that she is threatening him?
@@duduamrosh Yes, he did, under the pressure of being in the middle of the apocalypse, in a trial where he was litterally told that either he convinced her to get out with him,or she would kick him out in the end of the world and replace him. He was practically forced to reject it due to the pressure when the world was at stake, under the warning that if he refused, he would get kicked back out into the apocalypse. That's not exactly a fair choice, considering he was pressured into doing so.
Except he lied about the apprenticeship, about how the apprenticeship was going to be with him being trapped down in a lab during his teen years, when litterally Ford spent years exploring the woods, they even went to an UFO.
The message of the show is about sibling relationships, trust and growing up. Having one sibling giving up his life and dreams to please the other is not a good outcome or healthy.
When Dipper is litterally told by Mabel's lawyers that if he doesn't convince her to come out, he will get kicked out into the apocalypse, and Mabel is there smiling and beaming at the prospect. I don't think there's more explanation than that. I love Mabel but she got away with too much stuff in that episode.
@@dracoangelrojo It is not a bad thing if I disagree with you, right?
2:50 yeah I always wondered that myself. The high school I went to was regarded as one of the worst in the area and it was still more likely that the smart kids would bully the dumb kids.
Most likely explanation is because smarter kids come from wealthier families and wealthier kids have more access to resources like tutoring and more free time for education and extracurricular activities. Wealthier parents also have an expectation that their kids will go to college and get a degree. At least from what I’ve seen
@@jacobh.667 Nah, wealth was pretty irrelevant. If anything the dumb kids got bullied on wasting money on designer clothes instead o buying them at the discount stores. They were spoiled and careless while the smart kids learned from home that you need to be smart to survive.
The area I grew up in was very rural and working class.
I wish that we could have had a season 3 or 4 and that someone could have made a comic about what would happen if dipper was older if there was a time skip.
11:39 I agree with you.
Listen as cool as ford is he is by all metrics a screw up and not a good long term influence for dipper at that moment. Given he was stuck in another dimension for 30 years and has A LOT of complicated feelings on being with a sibling.
Dipper did realize this during weirdmegeddion and actively choose to decline it.
I do feel the show could of put forth a more compelling reason for mabels denial of the offer. After all they are parallels of stan and ford with the same general traits. They could of easily had her conclude that growing up means becoming the bitter hateful old men that stan and ford became and being scared of ending up like that with dipper.
On a side note, ford got himself into situations where he needs rescuing 4 times.
I really don't like that Dipper didn't take Ford's offer because I too grew up with a sister who got everything she wanted all the time. Dipper should have gone with him