While there are slight differences this is def a competent drum track. The way they made it sound was Goldsmith couldn’t play. Dave probably just didn’t like his drum track but overall I don’t think it would’ve impacted the success of the album
The issue was Dave is a perfectionist, especially back then, and I guess didn't think goldsmith played consistently enough for studio recording and wanted him to stay a touring member. But I doubt it would've affected the album's success too too much
You can hear him slow down and get behind the beat at times. And maybe Dave is pointing that out and Goldsmith can’t hear it. So Dave says “NEVERMIND, I’ll play it.”
William is a beast of a drummer, but I think it just comes down to feel. IMO Dave played these songs with a bit of a swing/swagger that is missing here, though obviously the drumming here is fantastic.
This demo is certainly about capturing the arrangement of the song and just to memorise it. Judging from the SDRE performance on MTV I think he is a more than capable drummer and maybe Dave himself couldn’t let it go, asking Gil Norton if he could take the blame, asking him to drum.
I'd like to hear the tracks William did for them fully mixed. Even though this track sounds completed, it still sounds rough and needs to be mixed and mastered. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be too much of a difference, other than not having the exact quality that Dave brings. In terms of how he tunes his kit and merely just how he plays it himself. I have a strong feeling that the album would have been just as successful with William's drum parts kept in. Oh well...C'est la vie.
I agree, and I’ll go one step further because the track is a little “muddled” I guarantee if you released this on a rarity album or even a live track no one would tell the difference who played the drums. Hawkins, Goldsmith or Grohl
I think it's the fill-ins. They're varied and almost too excited to execute and goes ahead of the beat. He's a good drummer but not an excellent one. Plus it wouldn't have led to Hawkins joining and a possibility of fading into 90s oblivion.
You know this is tough because they’re very close. I think Dave could have told him what he thought it should have sounded like and I’m sure William would have done it for the betterment of the song. I don’t think it should have gone down the way it did, but that’s in the past. Such a shame it did though because William really is a great drummer.
I don't think people fully understand how important structure is for a song. It's usually not enough to stick to the tempo and hit the snare on 2 and 4 - you need to place fills and beats consistently to tell the story right. William clearly drags on the first verse here. And more importantly - there's no fill or anything to signal the 'one in ten' part (0:35). And then again the build up to the chorus sounds accidental and not thought out (0:45). Dave's take is subtly different - notice how he gradually opens up the hi-hat to signal the 'one in ten' part. And the build-up to the chorus is so much clearer. Those may appear to be unimportant details but if you really compare the tracks (long and hard enough) you will see the difference they make. Now maybe Dave pointed these things to William, maybe he didn't. And it's a difficult conversation to have with your band's drummer - especially if you are such a great drummer yourself. This notion of structure - sometimes I think you either have it or not, it's more of an intuitive thing, not so much a skill to learn.
Drumming is all about the nuanced details. I’m a drummer (albeit a mediocre one), and I hear a world of difference between this and Dave’s drumming on the final track. I’m not saying William was bad - I saw him live and he’s a great drummer - but his drumming is fairly straightforward and lacking the little clever fills that made the Foo Fighters sound.
The difference is obvious. Same drum track, two different drummers with their own feel. William could obviously play the song, and well - the chorus sounds nice, but Dave overall is FAR stronger as a drummer. He can do what William does but adds so much more; power, metronomic timing, swing, and clarity. His drumming is so clean and precise and powerful, it's hard not to hear the difference as a drummer. Dave's drumming is simply just so much better in every possible way.
The drums are pretty solid in my opinion, I think my only critiques would be to add an extra kick like what dave did in the official version during the intro/post chorus and keeping the beat straight in that outro right after the last chorus. William has grown alot as a drummer from what i've seen in his most recent performances with SDRE. I'd hire him
Definitely lacking compared to Dave’s released version BUT we don’t know what William’s “final” takes sounded like. This sounds like a demo before they entered the studio.
I mean dave probably showed him the way but it is missing some of the key snare fills so i doubt he learned it from a demo tape. Its wills style he wasn’t as snare happy as dave.
@@mansfieldafterarson3944 This was a much different time & place in the band's career. Also, a full band member typically has a bigger financial interest than a touring member.
When it comes to recording especially there can be a couple % difference and the intensity AND precision are key differences WG and what actually made it. William isn’t a bad drummer or less than but for what this stuff called for Dave wasn’t a dick at all for having to cut them. Those saying they don’t hear the difference aren’t hearing that but William is a little less intense and not bringing that mental aspect that comes with recording solid drums of this style. It’s not easy becasue as a player you think you’re doing it and then upon playback you just suck. It takes a mental leap more so than a physical one to overcome.
The chorus is awesome, the rhythm is delivered at the same speed but Goldsmith has that hard hitting flare that has known for and you can definitely hear that. Taylor was awesome, and is one of the greatest drummers of his era, but so was/is Goldsmith, this performance was amazing yet Grohl slandered his play which is odd as Dave is usually straight forward and honest. Was probably just a personality clash
The snare placement sounds very rigid, and that could actually be a producer decision. WGs playing in SDRE is very loose and sometimes slightly behind the beat, and that adds to the phenomenal feel of songs like 5/4... but yea i can see why dave would redo demos like these. the drums sound programmed
Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins just had something so rare in their drumming. This isn’t bad but when you are in the band I guess you see it from a different perspective.
Lol. Red Lobster Rock would probably be better to aim for but🤷♂️. It does have a tinge of something. Other songs as well. Dave is a weird cat. Pretty damn good imho
Personally I was a fan of the first Foo Fighters album. Had seen Nirvana a bunch of times - with both Chad and Dave on drums. Saw them live a handful times on the first tour cycle. Club and festival shows - 1995/1996. Hearing Monkeywrench for the first time I was immediately struck by how much I didn't like it at all.... !!! Everything about it to me - at the time - was NO! Time has not softened my view! Dreadful song - doesn't matter who's drumming on it. Never seen them live since.
@jd0879 2 lata temu While there are slight differences this is def a competent drum track. The way they made it sound was Goldsmith couldn’t play. Dave probably just didn’t like his drum track but overall I don’t think it would’ve impacted the success of the album 87 Odpowiedz 10 odpowiedzi @lichtfilme 1 rok temu This demo is certainly about capturing the arrangement of the song and just to memorise it. Judging from the SDRE performance on MTV I think he is a more than capable drummer and maybe Dave himself couldn’t let it go, asking Gil Norton if he could take the blame, asking him to drum. 17 Odpowiedz @johnnyrokkit 1 rok temu William is a beast of a drummer, but I think it just comes down to feel. IMO Dave played these songs with a bit of a swing/swagger that is missing here, though obviously the drumming here is fantastic. 30 Odpowiedz @gernblanston3363 2 lata temu I'd like to hear the tracks William did for them fully mixed. Even though this track sounds completed, it still sounds rough and needs to be mixed and mastered. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be too much of a difference, other than not having the exact quality that Dave brings. In terms of how he tunes his kit and merely just how he plays it himself. I have a strong feeling that the album would have been just as successful with William's drum parts kept in. Oh well...C'est la vie. 67 Odpowiedz 2 odpowiedzi @DrummerEvan1 2 lata temu You know this is tough because they’re very close. I think Dave could have told him what he thought it should have sounded like and I’m sure William would have done it for the betterment of the song. I don’t think it should have gone down the way it did, but that’s in the past. Such a shame it did though because William really is a great drummer. 17 Odpowiedz @Danjoker. 1 rok temu Y'all need to realize that this is just a demo. Who knows what happened during the actual recording sessions? 4 Odpowiedz @squeguinquack2570 1 miesiąc temu Monkey Wrench by the Ramones Odpowiedz @erunix2392 1 rok temu Honestly I don't see how this is different to the released version, it would have been recorded by William and equally it would have been a hit. 6 Odpowiedz 2 odpowiedzi @kzgnode 10 miesięcy temu I have a feeling dave already had his eyes on taylor even the start of the production of this album. 6 Odpowiedz 2 odpowiedzi @viiofwands3076 1 rok temu The drums are pretty solid in my opinion, I think my only critiques would be to add an extra kick like what dave did in the official version during the intro/post chorus and keeping the beat straight in that outro right after the last chorus. William has grown alot as a drummer from what i've seen in his most recent performances with SDRE. I'd hire him 4 Odpowiedz @bigbowlowrong4694 2 lata temu (edytowany) Definitely lacking compared to Dave’s released version BUT we don’t know what William’s “final” takes sounded like. This sounds like a demo before they entered the studio. 17 Odpowiedz @leviathon18 2 lata temu drums sounds a bit more laid back but nothing really different at all 13 Odpowiedz @kennytesta9312 2 lata temu Sounds good SEX
William is a way more creative, groove, in the pocket drummer than Grohl. Dave being a drummer was terrible for Goldsmith, because I’m sure he could do nothing right. Thankfully it didn’t work out because Sunny day put out two absolutely incredible albums, both way better than any Foo album.
While there are slight differences this is def a competent drum track. The way they made it sound was Goldsmith couldn’t play. Dave probably just didn’t like his drum track but overall I don’t think it would’ve impacted the success of the album
I suspect it was Everlong that got Goldsmith fired
The issue was Dave is a perfectionist, especially back then, and I guess didn't think goldsmith played consistently enough for studio recording and wanted him to stay a touring member. But I doubt it would've affected the album's success too too much
You can hear him slow down and get behind the beat at times. And maybe Dave is pointing that out and Goldsmith can’t hear it. So Dave says “NEVERMIND, I’ll play it.”
Regardless of what happened Taylor was perfect for Foo Fighters and he matched Dave's energy. William is still an excellent drummer though.
@@frankkoshel9318 bro he wasn’t fired. Dave re-recorded the drums but still wanted goldsmith to stay in the band. Goldsmith left the band.
William is a beast of a drummer, but I think it just comes down to feel. IMO Dave played these songs with a bit of a swing/swagger that is missing here, though obviously the drumming here is fantastic.
This demo is certainly about capturing the arrangement of the song and just to memorise it.
Judging from the SDRE performance on MTV I think he is a more than capable drummer and maybe Dave himself couldn’t let it go, asking Gil Norton if he could take the blame, asking him to drum.
I'd like to hear the tracks William did for them fully mixed. Even though this track sounds completed, it still sounds rough and needs to be mixed and mastered. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be too much of a difference, other than not having the exact quality that Dave brings. In terms of how he tunes his kit and merely just how he plays it himself. I have a strong feeling that the album would have been just as successful with William's drum parts kept in. Oh well...C'est la vie.
I agree, and I’ll go one step further because the track is a little “muddled” I guarantee if you released this on a rarity album or even a live track no one would tell the difference who played the drums. Hawkins, Goldsmith or Grohl
I think it's the fill-ins. They're varied and almost too excited to execute and goes ahead of the beat.
He's a good drummer but not an excellent one.
Plus it wouldn't have led to Hawkins joining and a possibility of fading into 90s oblivion.
You know this is tough because they’re very close. I think Dave could have told him what he thought it should have sounded like and I’m sure William would have done it for the betterment of the song. I don’t think it should have gone down the way it did, but that’s in the past. Such a shame it did though because William really is a great drummer.
I don't think people fully understand how important structure is for a song. It's usually not enough to stick to the tempo and hit the snare on 2 and 4 - you need to place fills and beats consistently to tell the story right. William clearly drags on the first verse here. And more importantly - there's no fill or anything to signal the 'one in ten' part (0:35). And then again the build up to the chorus sounds accidental and not thought out (0:45). Dave's take is subtly different - notice how he gradually opens up the hi-hat to signal the 'one in ten' part. And the build-up to the chorus is so much clearer. Those may appear to be unimportant details but if you really compare the tracks (long and hard enough) you will see the difference they make. Now maybe Dave pointed these things to William, maybe he didn't. And it's a difficult conversation to have with your band's drummer - especially if you are such a great drummer yourself. This notion of structure - sometimes I think you either have it or not, it's more of an intuitive thing, not so much a skill to learn.
Honestly I don't see how this is different to the released version, it would have been recorded by William and equally it would have been a hit.
Drumming is all about the nuanced details. I’m a drummer (albeit a mediocre one), and I hear a world of difference between this and Dave’s drumming on the final track. I’m not saying William was bad - I saw him live and he’s a great drummer - but his drumming is fairly straightforward and lacking the little clever fills that made the Foo Fighters sound.
The difference is obvious. Same drum track, two different drummers with their own feel. William could obviously play the song, and well - the chorus sounds nice, but Dave overall is FAR stronger as a drummer. He can do what William does but adds so much more; power, metronomic timing, swing, and clarity. His drumming is so clean and precise and powerful, it's hard not to hear the difference as a drummer. Dave's drumming is simply just so much better in every possible way.
The drums are pretty solid in my opinion, I think my only critiques would be to add an extra kick like what dave did in the official version during the intro/post chorus and keeping the beat straight in that outro right after the last chorus. William has grown alot as a drummer from what i've seen in his most recent performances with SDRE. I'd hire him
Definitely lacking compared to Dave’s released version BUT we don’t know what William’s “final” takes sounded like. This sounds like a demo before they entered the studio.
Y'all need to realize that this is just a demo. Who knows what happened during the actual recording sessions?
I have a feeling dave already had his eyes on taylor even the start of the production of this album.
100%
Nope
Sounds like Dave still wrote the drum parts and William just learnt them through a demo tape or something
Makes me wonder why he tries to make it seem like any of them have any input. Just be like Trent Reznor and do everything and pay touring musicians.
I mean dave probably showed him the way but it is missing some of the key snare fills so i doubt he learned it from a demo tape. Its wills style he wasn’t as snare happy as dave.
@@mansfieldafterarson3944 This was a much different time & place in the band's career. Also, a full band member typically has a bigger financial interest than a touring member.
Thats exactly what happened
He wanted to be their studio drummer up until one by one (taylor plays half of 3rd album dave other half)
drums sounds a bit more laid back but nothing really different at all
Sounds good
The drums are mixed too low to hear what’s really happening. Goldsmith shines the most with subtlety, which you can’t really hear in this demo.
Maybe a little less energy and attack than the way Dave played it but it sounds fine.
When it comes to recording especially there can be a couple % difference and the intensity AND precision are key differences WG and what actually made it. William isn’t a bad drummer or less than but for what this stuff called for Dave wasn’t a dick at all for having to cut them. Those saying they don’t hear the difference aren’t hearing that but William is a little less intense and not bringing that mental aspect that comes with recording solid drums of this style. It’s not easy becasue as a player you think you’re doing it and then upon playback you just suck. It takes a mental leap more so than a physical one to overcome.
The chorus is awesome, the rhythm is delivered at the same speed but Goldsmith has that hard hitting flare that has known for and you can definitely hear that. Taylor was awesome, and is one of the greatest drummers of his era, but so was/is Goldsmith, this performance was amazing yet Grohl slandered his play which is odd as Dave is usually straight forward and honest. Was probably just a personality clash
I always wanted to hear these. Maybe Dave wanted a heavier sound or just play them himself.
He's rushing in the pre-chorus and chorus, a metronome would have solved this.
maybe he couldn't play tight to a metronome.
The snare placement sounds very rigid, and that could actually be a producer decision. WGs playing in SDRE is very loose and sometimes slightly behind the beat, and that adds to the phenomenal feel of songs like 5/4... but yea i can see why dave would redo demos like these. the drums sound programmed
Monkey Wrench by the Ramones
Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins just had something so rare in their drumming. This isn’t bad but when you are in the band I guess you see it from a different perspective.
He's not hitting as hard as Dave but the guy can play really well, dunno why Dave didn't like it, just Dave being Dave I guess
Taylor’s better even tough He didn’t play on colour and the shape He’s still better
it’s so Taco-Bell-rawk
Lol. Red Lobster Rock would probably be better to aim for but🤷♂️. It does have a tinge of something. Other songs as well. Dave is a weird cat. Pretty damn good imho
Personally I was a fan of the first Foo Fighters album. Had seen Nirvana a bunch of times - with both Chad and Dave on drums. Saw them live a handful times on the first tour cycle. Club and festival shows - 1995/1996. Hearing Monkeywrench for the first time I was immediately struck by how much I didn't like it at all.... !!! Everything about it to me - at the time - was NO! Time has not softened my view! Dreadful song - doesn't matter who's drumming on it. Never seen them live since.
@jd0879
2 lata temu
While there are slight differences this is def a competent drum track. The way they made it sound was Goldsmith couldn’t play. Dave probably just didn’t like his drum track but overall I don’t think it would’ve impacted the success of the album
87
Odpowiedz
10 odpowiedzi
@lichtfilme
1 rok temu
This demo is certainly about capturing the arrangement of the song and just to memorise it.
Judging from the SDRE performance on MTV I think he is a more than capable drummer and maybe Dave himself couldn’t let it go, asking Gil Norton if he could take the blame, asking him to drum.
17
Odpowiedz
@johnnyrokkit
1 rok temu
William is a beast of a drummer, but I think it just comes down to feel. IMO Dave played these songs with a bit of a swing/swagger that is missing here, though obviously the drumming here is fantastic.
30
Odpowiedz
@gernblanston3363
2 lata temu
I'd like to hear the tracks William did for them fully mixed. Even though this track sounds completed, it still sounds rough and needs to be mixed and mastered. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be too much of a difference, other than not having the exact quality that Dave brings. In terms of how he tunes his kit and merely just how he plays it himself. I have a strong feeling that the album would have been just as successful with William's drum parts kept in. Oh well...C'est la vie.
67
Odpowiedz
2 odpowiedzi
@DrummerEvan1
2 lata temu
You know this is tough because they’re very close. I think Dave could have told him what he thought it should have sounded like and I’m sure William would have done it for the betterment of the song. I don’t think it should have gone down the way it did, but that’s in the past. Such a shame it did though because William really is a great drummer.
17
Odpowiedz
@Danjoker.
1 rok temu
Y'all need to realize that this is just a demo. Who knows what happened during the actual recording sessions?
4
Odpowiedz
@squeguinquack2570
1 miesiąc temu
Monkey Wrench by the Ramones
Odpowiedz
@erunix2392
1 rok temu
Honestly I don't see how this is different to the released version, it would have been recorded by William and equally it would have been a hit.
6
Odpowiedz
2 odpowiedzi
@kzgnode
10 miesięcy temu
I have a feeling dave already had his eyes on taylor even the start of the production of this album.
6
Odpowiedz
2 odpowiedzi
@viiofwands3076
1 rok temu
The drums are pretty solid in my opinion, I think my only critiques would be to add an extra kick like what dave did in the official version during the intro/post chorus and keeping the beat straight in that outro right after the last chorus. William has grown alot as a drummer from what i've seen in his most recent performances with SDRE. I'd hire him
4
Odpowiedz
@bigbowlowrong4694
2 lata temu (edytowany)
Definitely lacking compared to Dave’s released version BUT we don’t know what William’s “final” takes sounded like. This sounds like a demo before they entered the studio.
17
Odpowiedz
@leviathon18
2 lata temu
drums sounds a bit more laid back but nothing really different at all
13
Odpowiedz
@kennytesta9312
2 lata temu
Sounds good
SEX
I always thought Monkey Wrench was corny
William is a way more creative, groove, in the pocket drummer than Grohl. Dave being a drummer was terrible for Goldsmith, because I’m sure he could do nothing right. Thankfully it didn’t work out because Sunny day put out two absolutely incredible albums, both way better than any Foo album.
Don’t forget the fire theft too.