Square has done what I think most of us considered impossible: They have recaptured the "unreliable narrator" aspect of the original FF7. WE as the audience have no idea what's real or what isn't, and that's quite the accomplishment for a remake of a 25-year-old game. I believe the beginning of FF7R-3 will establish that THAT did, in fact, happen, and that Cloud really is losing his goddamned mind so it sets up the tension right off the bat for what's to come in the finale.
Is that the point of this multiverse stuff, it's just a tool to try and get people in the same headspace as OG, so they can just do the same exact thing again as OG? Jeez there's meta and then there's meta. If this is the case I really think a fully faithfull remake would have been a better choice, the OGs story can stand on it's own without any extra steps to get there imo.🤷♂
If og cloud was the unreliable narrator, how come he was able to tell the "acceptance" story - aka dead aerith? He was unreliable in many aspects. He didn't tell about jesse, he didn't tell about whispers, he didn't tell that they fought sephiroth after the chase scene, he didn't tell he's been meeting sephiroth at the edge of creation in between worlds, he didn't tell that there were multiple worlds as sephiroth explained, he didnt tell that sephiroth wanted to hurt the planet by kompressing the time...lines. he didnt tell that he fought with zack and aerith. But if there's one thing he got right in og - aerith is really dead.
Further proof of Cloud's mind unraveling: When you start the final battle with Sephiroth, everyone else's Limit breaks are already fully activated in their grief and rage. Only Cloud's is not activated because he thinks Aerith is still alive. If you didn't notice that detail, go back and play that part again.
@@AT-qu2bz Then move the f**k along and don't read. Just a thought. Also, if you're watching that many FF7 videos, you're also a nerd, sorry to break it to you. Embrace it instead of being a pressed jerk.
@@EastToWestTCG Or, you know, instead of you being an a**hole for no reason, you could just go on someone's LP and watch it there in just a few minutes. I found out this little detail and decided to share it because I didn't notice it myself in my playthrough. Figured I would point it out in case other people didn't notice it. And now, you and the other ignorant person above have commented here in the negative, being completely and unnecessarily sarcastic and rude about it. Why? You want a gold star for being a jacka**?
That moment in Remake when you hear Cloud say "That's my line" right at the beginning of the game. Thats when you knew this wasn't the average anime voice over. Cody Christian was the Cloud we have dreaming of for the past 27 years, and he has fucking nailed it from Remake to Rebirth and I can't wait to see this guy do it again for part 3.
When I play OG now, his voice is all I hear. But interestingly enough it wasn't too different than the voice I "gave" Cloud before FF VA was even a thought. That's a good thing
Just wanna say that Maximillian Dood on twitch said this when he finished the game so some of us kinda had an inkling to it. Also what this means is that the lines were recorded. Cloud will have to recognized it happened on part 3 and we will hear and see the scene. We weren’t robbed. We will just go over it next part.
I think the scene with aeriths funeral in the water already happened, because the next thing we saw, after aerith was opening her eyes for cloud, is a cut to them all sitting devastated by the water. So probably they had the funeral in the water, but since we see it fom clouds perspective, we now see aerith still alive....so the actual scene, what really happened and how the others saw/experienced everything, will probably come after or during the process of him getting his memories back?! But they did a fantastic job of making aeriths death so mysterious and unfinished and it makes a lot of sense. We know already how much zacks death effected cloud, so it's not that surprising, that he isn't taking her death very well, too
I like this thought and I hope they go this direction. We already know he's got mixed memories and things he's blocked out of his mind. It would be neat for them to say we didn't show it in the game, but it did happen. Cloud could not accept her death and it became another thing he has blocked out until he was able to figure out his story.
Notice they also leave empty frames in the end credits where these scenes should be. Not just that they're not in the credits, but they actually leave space - to imply that the memories have been suppressed, I think.
I trust the devs with the outcomes of everything in the game. They first made those scenes we love in the original and now they are making even more greater things. People forget that this is their game their story. They decide what happens in game as they originally created it. Im just ready for part 3. I love part 1 i love part 2 and i know for sure i will love part 3 💯🔥
Agreed. The fact that we can even have these debates about a game that was so important to so many of us after all these years is nothing short of magical and I'm so excited to continue on the journey
Absolutely. The devs love this franchise more than anyone. They are all putting capstones on their epic careers. They love and appreciate the fans. They’ve got it covered. Positive and constructive feedback is all that is required from the fan base.
I could imagine the scene playout during the moment when Tifa puts Cloud's mind back together. Cloud shows that he saved her.. then Tifa says "No, Cloud that's not what happened." with the whole death scene proceeding to be on display including her burial.
Why not ? But Tifa wasn't there she only saw the final outcome and a lot of the OG Tifa/Lifestream scene from the OG was already shown during the Gongaga incident. What more could she say ? And what about Sephirot showing the truth to Cloud like he did in the OG when he showed a vision of Nibelheim with Zack ?
@@Foxheimer Tifa knows she's dead though. The scene playing out would be in Cloud's fragmented memory. The Gongaga incident I believe was just a taste of what's to come.. Tifa had her moment of recalling events and Cloud will still have his - The truth of Zack will still be revealed to Cloud.. only with Aerith's death being added on top it.
It should happen before he got his memories fixed, the sudden realization of aerith's death is a good idea to further break cloud's sanity which is where tifa would come in to help cloud piece everything together, help him cope and acknowledge what happened
@@rainku498 Tifa saw 2 versions of the outcome of that scene. How can she be a reliable narrator ? The taste is about 80% of the OG scene. They already establish the fall at Mt Nibel which was the pivot memory, the point of the OG scene was about facts. Common memories to establish if Cloud was the real Cloud. Here it's something different. He doesn't seem to have issues with his childhood memories only everything that could question the "fact" that he is a "Soldier". I guess, now, he has to encounter a shock to realize but I don't see how Tifa can be that person ( I don't say she can't help him somehow) because she doesn't know. The only one who knows is Sephirot he did show the truth to Cloud in the Northen Crater in the OG. So why not in part 3.
Honestly, what I got from the ending was that it only SEEMS like Cloud is losing his mind by seeing Aerith. Nanaki notices her when she touches him, which may be a ghost-thing, but it validates that Cloud isn't simply halucinating. Aerith IS there, whether it's because he's seeing her spirit, or what I think: Aerith said goodbye because she saw her own death at the end of part one, and knew what was coming. The reason Nanaki can sense her isn't because she's a ghost, though. Cloud DID save her, and this is a symptom of the timelines converging that Sephiroth was talking about. I think Cloud's disjointed because of what he experienced at the end of the game. There's two timelines: one where he successfully parried Sephiroth and saved Aerith, and one where things played out as in the original. That's why he sees the tear in the sky from the altered timeline while everyone else doesn't. That's also why they made the point of showing the Holy material bouncing the way it did in the original. They went out of their way to show that the Holy materia she drops is the white one of the original game's, not the empty one from this game. His consciousness is torn between worlds, so he's not grief-stricken because he DID save her, while everyone else is because the world where he did is a fractured timeline. An Aerith died, but one also lived, so I'm confident she'll return just like Zach did.
Yeah but during the robochad mission red tells cloud he’s hearing things and that a persons spirit returns to the life stream. I thought red sensed her too but did he or was he just sad?
People gotta remember not only will he relive Aeriths death he’ll have to confront what actually happened to Zack too. They’re both rooting for him so he’ll have to fight for both of them when he comes to terms with his memories. Using Aerith and Zack as his inspirations to fight is gonna hit hard next game
They made this game as close to the original as they could, to give us this very scene at the end is also to make the build ups across the board all the more relevant as well the stakes. Time will tell how they choose to end this phenomenal trilogy
As close as they could? I'll respectfully disagree there. Plenty close in many places, sure, but they didn't need to make the Temple of the Ancients into Gravity Land. Plenty of randomly added boss fights, Chadley again/still, the changes to Chocobo's... This could have been more faithful, and still jumped the shark when Nomura got bored and Leroy Jenkins'd his way into the forefront of the writing for the ending.
@@nathanstruble2177 oddly enough, I loved the gravity mechanic, and the visuals of seeing other areas of the Temple upside down or sideways in the distance. Frankly I wish the choices for how to manipulate it as you go through for treasure/progress weren't so obvious, and that it was even more of a puzzle. Felt like a proper dungeon crawl. Ending is great, too. Puts even more emphasis on the actual biggest story of the OG before the reveal...Cloud the unreliable narrator and just how broken his mind is. Getting to likely see him have to come to terms with not only Zack's death but Aerith's as well when we fix his mind will be incredibly good, and they've built it up even better than the OG.
@@nathanstruble2177 and the Midgarsormr part. I was hoping for some masterfully done fight with Sephiroth and the serpent, impaling it with a tree but we got a KH version of it.. its almost the Trail of Blood scene for me again.
Part 3 already been in development since 2023 with the latest info we have rebirth was done or mostly winding down in 2023 real work didnt start on part 3 till 2023 mid or late its been in development for a year hence why they say they want to stick with the 3 year window so it could come out in 2026 that would be 3 years becasue work started in 2023 main part already done voice recording starting in the near future according to SE so mid this year voice recording begins me thinks.
hopefully this means we will get to see cloud lay Aerith's body into the water. thanks for the video explaination. i kinda thought that he was going through extreme denial. it makes perfect sense. it doesnt help that sephiroth is messing with him mind as well.
What pissed me off the most are the whispers. Seeing them in both games a lot gave me the hope that this time Aerith can be saved but no… they just had to break our hearts again. It’s a majestic and wonderful game full of happiness why do you have to add something so heartbreaking and dark like that without a happy closure? If part 3 doesn’t revive Aerith I’ll be very disappointed 😔
I’m glad to hear this because I really liked that scene in the OG and that was something I was looking forward to seeing. “Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry......” I would cry so much.
when my dad ended his life in 2009 that night i had a dream where i was outside the house and he walked up to me and everyone was sad inside and he asked why was everyone said. i explained he ended his life that is why.. he said he would never do that and walked away. its sad but its true it was his depression that did it not him. what you were saying in this video brought up that memory of mine
Great video explaining how they decided to change the story around a bit. I think how they handled her death this time around is very interesting, in a good way!
I think its a little quick to think that "Aerith is dead and that is that" because i feel this trilogy is showing us that even though that death is certain, Fate is not and it can be changed.
I’m a little inclined to agree. There are so many moments in the game where the game is pushing for “save Aerith.” Marlene says it to Zack when she says Cloud needs to be alive to save Aerith, Red says it on his date with Cloud that he must protect Aerith, and more. The whole defy fate theme that this trilogy is pushing seems to mean “protect Aerith.”
Yes. When Cloud clashed swords with sephiroth we saw a rainbow effect just like with Zack when he choose another option. Cloud sees the rift in the sky while the others dont. And now with the worlds merging its obvious whats gonna happen
But it's been said that this trilogy still honors and leads to Advent Children. If Aerith lives, it'll mess with the continuity and meteor won't be stopped and the world is destroyed. They're adding just enough to the games to mess with some of the player bass, but all major events still happen like the OG. Theory crafting is fun, but some people are drinking to much coolaid. 😂
I think for me it’s just a call back to OG and how I felt cheated out of a character. Yea sure the full roster could essentially do everything but I still liked Aerith for her limit breaks. I felt especially like meh here because I felt my blm was stolen from me lol. Still feels shitty and I hope they do follow through with the save Aerith spin so I can continue annihilating groups with spells😂
I mean they also said this remake was so they could do things they wished they could in the original. Why create an alternate storyline if things virtually remain the same? While there have been some minor changes, up to the point of the ending of Rebirth, things are actually the same with Aerith’s death taking place. We assume that due to her death all the events will play out the same but I think that’s the curveball. Still, it’s fun to theorize haha
When the mind takes more stress than it can handle, it can block out bad memories, like damage limitation. Some people cannot handle reality and create their own version of reality as a coping mechanism. Cloud is choosing to see what he wants to see. I reckon in Part 3 at first Cloud is going to stick in denial mode. The gang are going to make him have to confront his troubles (as he’s no good whilst his head is not right) and sooner or later his mind is going to break - he cannot handle the truth. Reckon he’ll fly into uncontrollable rage as he will feel like he’s been used and will believe that he should have done more, that he could/ should have saved Aerith. Would not surprise me if he tries to fight his own friends, and/ or runs off to try and cope with his pain. The themes we have been seeing in the game have greatly been expanded upon since PS1, but it makes you realise with such limited resources what a fabulous game FF7 was and a remarkable achievement of its time.
The full transcript read that Nomura said something like "...that's why the team delivered, having Cloud successfullly deflect Sephiroth". That might come with more "clarifications" over time, but Tifa also sees two different scenes after the fact. Red senses Aerith when she touched him as well. Cloud looked surprised to see her at poolside. Too many indicators she's not "completely" dead. Cloud said "wake up", so it's similar to what Marlene was talking about would happen if she woke up in another timeline and why.
thats some heavy copium, she is omega dead lol. cloud is even more the unreliable narrator than he was in the OG, his head is totallt fucked, you cant trust anything he says or sees
@@cavsfightingroom3692 Not completely true. And it sounds like you're an embittered Cloti who would prefer she was totally dead ;) But really, we know that at least some of what Cloud sees is real as the rainbow effect and Zack navigating worlds and being 'alive' is fact. Also the time when Aerith and Cloud fight Sep together, is real as Sep even responds directly to Aerith.
@@Silverfish-qv8ig Don't really agree, think it's more them showing clarification for how Aertih/Zack still are able to communicate/influence Cloud in key moments throughout the rest of the compilation despite being "dead". They exist in the LIfestream.
@@cavsfightingroom3692 They're the man's own words. I realize there's a lot of people chomping at the bit that Cloud will mentally be a carved up piece of roadkill but this scenario doesn't make things any easier, if true. You mix him actually seeing her, with instances where it is his imagination, with potential Jenova projections and this guy's going to get locked in a padded room by his friends. But Tifa saw it, Red felt her, and even Sephiroth told Aerith he underestimated her. Cloud isn't as much the unreliable narrator this time - the world is.
I think there are 3 things that are all happening simultaneously. 1 - Aerith is in the life stream and can kind of be felt hence why Red senses her. 2 - Sephiroth and Jenova are also messing with Cloud by pretending to be Aerith, hence all the times they talk about Jenova taking on the appearance of people, when specifically saying it pretending to be someone who was dead from goth Sephiroth and the Cetra message. 3 - Cloud is making stuff up in his mind as well. All three of those are happening and it will be a constant thing of wondering what is actually happening, what Cloud is being tricked into thinking, and what Cloud is tricking himself into thinking.
So I read some things about this. It seems like they might be using Aerith's 'death' as the Black Materia moment in the third part. That is when it will likely be revealed fully and officially what really happened (beyond Cloud just not being in SOLDIER). And in hindsight, this is kind of brilliant, because they're basically recapturing the concept of the unreliable narrator, where the game gives you the impression that one thing happened, but it's actually something else entirely that happened and Cloud is just mentally in denial. We can't just have the twist be that he wasn't in SOLDIER. That would be way too predictable, esiecially to people that played the original and have foreknowledge, but having it be that he's in denial of Aerith's death coupled with the SOLDIER stuff, is a great way to have the scene pull the rug out from under the player again.
i personally think all things can be true at once. aerith died in our world but was also saved in another world. on top of that lifestream aerith also makes appearances here and there... the aerith we see at the end could either be an alternate aerith or "spirit" aerith. people lean too heavily into "she's dead" or "she's alive" camp depending on what they personally want to believe but what if they're all true at once? that way they can have their cake and eat it too: they'll have cloud confront her death and show us her full death scene in part 3 but then aerith having survived in some other world would also give them an excuse to keep aerith alive (at least alive for longer) and also make her reunite with cloud/the party in some way. if they brought back zack of all people, there's no way that aerith won't be appearing again in part 3 and have more screentime (not saying she'll be alive by the end of the trilogy but the "multiverse" stuff gives them an excuse to keep these characters alive in some way). that way even if by the end of the trilogy she has do die no matter what at least they kept her alive for longer, gave her more screentime and gave her more moments with cloud and/or the other characters. i know some people might not like that but judging how they did this ending and how this trilogy is meant to kind of "wrap up" the FF7 world, i genuinely believe they'll try to kind of give a "happy" ending to the characters while also keeping the same story beats from the OG.
I almost wish they wouldnt have had her stay behind in the end. I wish she would have "tagged" along and been playable and then it just hits us that we all thought she was with us the whole time and wasnt.
I'm starting to think that when Cloud and Tifa repair his mind, he will have to face his failures to save his mother, Zack, and Aerith, in order to remember that he never failed Tifa and kept his original promise.
I have a question and never received a real answer. Are we sure Tifa is going to repair his mind ? I mean everything from the OG scene was already showed during the Gongaga incident. Tifa didn't see Sephirot killing Aerith and she doesn't know what happened after Sephirot attacked her in the in Nibelheim's reactor. I mean what more could she say ?
@@Foxheimer I'm not sure what you mean tho, clouds perception of many things are still wrong, he thinks he knows what happened to Zack and all, but he doesn't, he thinks aerith is alive, she isn't, you say tifa didn't SEE it happen but it doesn't matter if they didn't turn the corner right as it did, everyone else experienced something far different than cloud actually did, they turned the corner and saw him holding her, dead, they all went through the burial process, they had to have, and they were all pissed in the fight starting with limits except cloud, I will say though I can't remember the exact specifics of the childhood story but I thought there was more to it? Or that tifa is remembering wrong this time too and cloud was also feeding her wrong info in gongaga? At least I think I heard that somewhere, its been awhile since I saw the original lifestream scenes, but its also just possible that they go with some other story entirely for their recollection together if you're positive they've already gone over the original one.
@@SSlash Why do you reply if you don't remember the OG scene ? My main point is about the fact that 85% of that scene was already shown in Rebirth and that Cloud's memory is not as damaged as we think. Cloud remembers the Promise made to Tifa, by himself, in Remake but in OG it's Tifa that comes with that memory. Making it un unreliable memory because of the ability of Jenova to create fake memories from what others people say. That 's why, in the OG, the Mt Nibel memory is the most important because Cloud explains stuff to Tifa she didn't remember and it's at that precise moment she knows Cloud is the real Cloud and not a clone. (And from that he can deal with what really happened in Nibelheiml, accepting the existence of Zack and his failure as Soldier.) All that stuff was already addressed in the Gongaga incident, he reminds her that her friends ran away and left her alone and that he fell of the cliff with her while trying to save her. That's the OG/Lifestream scene. The only missing stuff from the OG would be the reason why he wanted to join Soldier (To be noticed by Tifa) If the Devs wanted to create new common memories between Cloud and Tifa they should have introduced them in a way or in other in Remake or at the beginning of Rebirth. Like they did in the OG/Remake with the scene when Cloud is talking to himself about "scratched knees back then" which was a reference to the Mt Nibel memory. You can't create a memory 5 minutes before a revealing scene Cloud doesn't seem to have a problem with his childhood memories but mainly about everything that could question the fact he is a Soldier. I mean he remembers the name of Tifa's cat, that he didn't understand why that cat was named Fluffy. In the same side-quest you got a moment where he asked Tifa if she really believed he was happy being alone when they were kids. Every factual elements that helped Tifa to repair Cloud's mind was already given to us and to Cloud. So except telling him "Aerith is dead" and "you were not in Nibelheim 5 years ago" She knows that Zack didn't drown but she still doesn't know what happened to him after that famous night 5 years ago. She didn't see Aerith getting killed, we can see from her eyes she has 2 visions on top of each other during that scene she seems baffled. Then you got Sephirot talking about "joy turning in to anger" with a close look of every party member full of anger but Tifa is not even shown. What more could she say to Cloud to help him ? I'm sure she is going to help him in a way or in another but it seems that the "Gongaga incident" and the fact that he remembers so much and so fast would defeat the purpose of that OG scene in part 3.
I'm glad you brought up Gongaga. I think the additional Aerith arm blood is false, but it could be one of two things. Something Sephiroth wants Tifa to see to make her fear Cloud killed Aerith, or something Sephiroth didn't want her to see, a lie he is preparing for Cloud, that Tifa picked up on because maybe she has a little bit of the Planet's defenses in her from being inside a Weapon. Either way she knows his current state is dangerous. I felt like we were seeing three realities: Cloud's mind, the truth, and the new lie with more blood. I could absolutely be wrong though. As for the lifestream memory sequence, Nojima considers it the most important part of the story, but I have no idea how it happens or how we'll get there. But things will get a lot worse for Cloud before they get better :D
@@ETHomerin There is blood on the ground too. Barret has that bloody vision (it's fast but you can see the blood both on the ground and on her arm) but Tifa has images when there is no blood at all. And when there is no blood you never see the face of Aerith. I agree many things are in motion at the same time. The fact that before that scene we have so many references to the Expressway scene from Remake intrigues me especially that Cloud is the only one crossing a portal this time. Thanks I'm not crazy thinking that lifestream scene may come in a different way. With everything that was brought to us; knowledge of the livestream, characters memories, the abilities of Aerith to travel trough world wouldn't she the best person to help Cloud in the lifestream ... If you're a new audience player ... Cloud falls in the lifestream ... Aerith is dead so she is in the lifestream ... I'm going to be crucified by thinking that lol Thanks for you reply
I feel like you're making a lot of assumptions and taking things at face value. Is she actually dead? Maybe. Is he actually blocking it out? Maybe. But with all of the multiverse stuff that's going on, we can't know for sure. We literally have a white materia from another universe. We literally have multiple versions of Zack floating around. It's entirely possible that he's not blocking out trauma, but he actually does think that she's still alive because he saw another version of her. It's also possible that the way that events actually played out for him is that he did, in fact, save her. We saw it happen and we saw the rainbow effect of reality splitting. We can't *know* anything until part 3 comes out.
I'm completely agree, there's a lot more going on that we don't know about. Like you said when the rainbow light appeared, Cloud blocked Sephiroth's attacks, saving Aerith. She could still be alive in that timeline, but then the scene switches into the main timeline where Aerith dies. There, you see no rainbow light anywhere to be seen. There could be a possibility that there are two parallel realities where Aerith died and survived.
Yup. Agreed. The thing about travelling through Cloud's memory is that, while the story he told in the original game was inconsistent with the truth, it wasn't completely made-up information. It was all consequential and the inconsistencies were just a reflection of Cloud. I don't understand why people are so ready to believe that all of those interludes we got through were complete fabrications of Cloud's mind as well-it seems not only silly, but pointless. If anything I'm just getting FF8 vibes from Sephiroth's actions and Squall dreaming about Laguna.
If you actually played the rebirth, you already know why Zack is brought back and dev's intention is made load and clear with Marlene. This time, in the final game, Zack will be working with Tifa to retrive Cloud's true memory or ability. In which form? I don't know. But When that happens Could will be awake before Aerith did in slum 5 and this time he will truly save her from the infinite death loop she's been stuck with. There is basically no denial that she will be brought back to life in the final game and there is so many hints on it. Two theme songs, Hollow, NPTK, the Loveless show, fellas, memory flashing, and most importantly the multi universe setting. The devs added all these new settings into the trilogy for only one goal: to finally save Aerith this time.
She's dead in advent children and the devs said this game is just going to make things line yo better, hence the inclusion of Zack. Cloud can't be the hero he's meant to be of they're alive.
This is a great take. It acknowledges different perspectives, but outlines the love that the devs have for this project. I think you can really feel the love here. Whether it lands or not, they are trying.
The fact that there is mass speculation about if and how Aerith is still alive, is a testament to the success of the storywriter putting us in Clouds mind.
I feel like more people had to understand what was happening during the "date" scene. It became painfully obvious how it was forcing the concept of "illusion of choice" onto the player which further the concept of destiny and accepting ones fate. It's sad knowing Aerith accepts what will happen to her but Cloud has to be prepared and face the challenge coming to him.
yap. the date was aerith coming to terms that 1) it doesnt matter if she likes "likes" cloud or not. 2) it doesnt matter if cloud likes her or not 3) it also doesnt matter if she could force cloud to do something or not 4) the relationship is just not meant to be. hence she realized what her stance is on about it, her position on it. she was "testing the water" ever since she got her memory from the og. she is both rooting for tifa and cloud(her whispher on tifa cloud gongaga scene) but at the same time, she is trying to test force if she could be with cloud. thats why she was aggresive about doing little dates with cloud all through out. (kalm, costa del sol. even their gs date is her being aggresive with him) then finally inside that time raft. she so wanted for the world to accept her feelings to cloud but its just not happening. as for zack, i dont think that even the omniscient aerith knows that zack is still at play. zack would be that one who would break the illusion of choice and actually open up choices thats why he wasnt angry about the aerith liking cloud. in a way he wanted a fair fight with him. giving aerith the right to choose if you will.
What FF7 achives in my opinion is the fact that the ending, regardless of her being alive or dead thanks to the multiverse thing going on (imho, it's still alive in a different universe and in P3 they're going to merge that) they still made us love this ending because aside from how confusing it was, I felt like a heart attack two times in a row, the first time when Cloud pushed away Sephiroth from hurting Aerith, and the second time when we saw the blood in his sword. And from there the whole suffering Cloud was feeling, along with his teammates. I want to believe she's still alive, or that they will bring her alive again, mostly because even in the OG FF7, at the final step of the game, when all party members are about to go deep into the final boss, there's an empty place that should have been filled by a character that probably at last decided to have it removed, and that 100% was Aerith from the beginning (you can easily look up this online). Great game, great gameplay, wish I could have P3 before another 4 years, sigh!
I am shocked, awed, and amazed at this trilogy so far. I was so worried (like many) that they would Nomura the hell out of this story and over complicate it (looking at you, Kingdom Hearts), but I think I can finally relax. They've got this, they know what they are doing, and I am SO EXCITED for the next game. It's good for OG players and newbies alike.
I think what most people are missing is that Cloud and Tifa (too early for Tifa) has Mako poisoning. Cloud and Red XIII has Jenova’s cells. For those that played the OG knows it’s about to go down psychologically. I think there’s a multiverse. The fact that The Temple of the Ancient is up north, Zack appears to be in the aftermath of the OG story with a destroyed Midgar, fighting all of Sephiroth’s forms too early, and different Stamps there something fishy going on.
thats why i love that they cut to the 3rd act the way they did. its gonna be so dark and heavy psychologically wise, mental health wise, that im already hearing some complainers whining about it. its bound to get some people really uncomfortable. that is of course if the devs would not back out and dare to go all out on it. the multiverse though.. its high time people realize that anime(which ff7 basically is) does not use multiverses like mcu does. there are of course similarities, but they are different.
I think Cloud said what was in the original: “What is this pain? My fingers are tingling, my mouth is dry, my eyes are burning!” There are two Clouds in this scene: The Sephiroth “clone” and the real Cloud. Notice the real Cloud cries, but the “clone” doesn’t realize Aerith’s death. She’s truly gone in this timeline and that’s something the real Cloud knows. However, Sephiroth’s clone abilities are overpowering the OG Cloud. I think Aerith will play an important part in Part 3 regarding the awakening of the real Cloud again.
Not worth it. People needed time to allow the scene to cook and affect their emotions. And for first time players, you only get to experience Aerith's death for the first time once. First time players witnessed a botched scene. It could have been done to where we got both. We got the scene in which we witness the death and Cloud's speech and then they could have pulled the crazy mind stuff afterward. There are plenty of times in the game in which we witness events in 3rd person and this needed to be one of them. Very pour form.
As someone who played PS1's FF7, I thought it was very obvious that Cloud's muted lines were his lines from the original game's death scene. There are multiple timeless due to multiple worlds being created, whenever Destiny is defied. We were seeing one of the alternate timelines in Rebirth, where Cloud does not view Aerith as being killed and therefore is emotionally disconnected in her reactions and perceived reality from Tifa and the rest of the team. Sephiroth says that the reunion was a confluence of worlds - creating a mixture of both emotions and realities. It seems Sephiroth's goal is to further disconnect Cloud from his friends. He won't have that angry motivation to regroup himself and stop Sephiroth, if he doesn't fully believe that Aerith has been killed.
...i think this ultimately was the goal of sephiroth, breaking cloud to the point of being irreversible. He was the one who ultimately stopped, he is his metaphorical kryptonite, he took control of him yes, but it was snatched by tifa. Here, by killing aerith but sparing another, he has no grief to cling onto, he has no connection to tifa, because to him aerith isn't dead, cloud is damaged permanently and in nomura's eyes, it means sephiroth "has a new vessel." He's planning to use to cloud to destroy the world in his stead
I think Aerith state is the same as Zack right now. If we think of Zack in rebirth, we would perceive that he is alive and kicking. But actually, in the main timeline, he is dead. It’s true that in main timeline, Cloud will find out later that he can’t save Aerith but Aerith will remind him that he did save her and create the alternative timeline where she live on. I’m sure this kind of dialogue will happen when Cloud fall into lifestream after Tifa help him find himself. It will further motivate him to fight against Sephiroth. FF7 remake version will end with no main characters actually die. They just live on in another dimension where you couldn’t reach if you’re in the normal condition.
The reason why I think the burial scene wasn’t included is because it seems she’s not really dead. Sure in our world she was killed like normal but it also seems like shes still alive in one other timeline as given evidence to the prism light effect when Cloud blocks the sword; a feat that has in fact been confirmed he did as explained in the ultimatum by the developers. It wouldn’t make sense to include all those moments if Aerith is still alive somewhere and the her story isn’t over.
Right because she does die in our main timeline, but they also confirmed in the ultimatum that we don’t know which version of Aerith we’re talking to at the end; “Is this her alive, in the lifestream, or him hallucinating, we’ll have to wait and see” was what they said.
What I think might be happening there is Tifa might actually be seeing two separate versions of the events as well and the camera even focuses on her confused reaction as it’s happening, but then events unfold too quickly for her to process it so she sorta snaps back into the present of what’s going on. We know earlier in the story she fell into the lifestream so this gives us the premise of her being slightly sensitive to the other things that might be going on.
@@joshz2491nothing further of my intention to redound in that type of dichotomic discussion between sort of wishful thinkers and another sort of reality swordsmen; but: Taking the info as it has been unfolded here, well, back to the start of the video, Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback" being played according to Nomura's advice of "portraying" the famous scene of discord. If we take that directly this reading of declarations, same point stands actually for both stances. Ambiguity. P.S.: although Ultimania is a valid fount, it use to be usefuller to describe consummate facts than to anticipate current speculations, and does not quit to be an information organ buidt up from the SquareEnix intentional projections that reaches as far as it is designed to that extent.
What's the point if they went for the "Cloud's mind is broken?" angle? It's useless, futile and honestly, outragingly frustratingly... bad. The writers have made the plot convoluted for sure. But like they say, humans hate change. It's better to do something confusing and new than to stick to the same old crap. Remember how Ubisoft kept releasing Assassin's Creed every year until the public said we've had enough of the old routine? Until Odyssey came out or Origins and they hated it? And now Mirage is out, they hate it even more? You can't pander to these idiots, unsatiable consumers. Maybe they can try something most definitively new with Marvel's or Multiverse concepts and bring it differently. Maybe we can have Aerith being resurrected, coming here in a different timeline, etc. And Cloud's mind can be proven right. The question is, how can he be proven right? They already showcased him saying that he's traveled in another world, THAT IS A CEMENTED FACT. So why is this any different that he did save aerith and not deluded himself into thinking he did? You people are ridiculous.
He did and he didn’t save her. Remember the light when he tries to parry the blow? A new rift was created. There’s now multiple “dying worlds”-the original FFVII timeline, from the original game, where everything has already happened. The Beagle timeline where Aerith dies (the main Remake timeline), the Terrier timeline (where Zack is alive, Aerith is comatose, Barret and Tifa are dead), and the Pug, Pomeranian and Shiba Inu timelines (divergences created from the Terrier timeline.) Aerith learns in Remake that she’s going to die, because the original FFVII Aerith can manipulate the Lifestream and is fighting Sephiroth through it and shows both her alternate self and Red XIII.
We don't see alternate world versions of Aerith's death so much as we see Cloud's version of the events (Aerith is alive) and the reality (Aeirth's death) which is what everyone else cannonically is experiencing, hence why there is is no water send off. We are seeing events from the "unreliable narrator" Cloud, who has omitted that water send off from his mind.
I don't know. I think it's a mix of the two. Yes, he is blocking out the dead route, but I believe he also experienced an alive route too. The rainbow colouring is too important, as is the multiverse element. The Ultimania states this.
@@LynnyG Well, we know the rainbow pixie dust is real from the Ultimania, we also know that, sadly, all the multiverse nonsense is real too and that Zack is 'alive'.
Being an unreliable narrator doesn’t mean your unreliable all the time, sometimes we’re seeing the truth sometimes we’re not. Earlier in the story when Tifa falls into the lifestream the flickering effect takes hold again and actually shows him what he just did, so we know sometimes this can be shown as a true moment happening.
The Cloud recovery part will be expanded deeper, in OG some important tragic past are not mentioned. the missing 5 years as Hojo lab's rat, the 1 year escape with Zack and Zack's death, now added for Aerith's death. I want see Cloud taken by Jenova after his total breakdown in North Carter and the party forced to fight him before he dropped into lifestream
Hehe i believe Aerith is 100% alive(clouds mind is not unraveling here is just that there is multiverse timeline that cloud sees-aerith alive and one is not-as per sephiroth conclusion of world) ...common sense will tell if zack was easily revive by whisperers of fate why not aerith(in crisis core i believe cloud sees zack died in the battle hehe thats the OG as well) ....in the third chapter it will be a very good ending for us as said by the director ...i think the storyline will be similar to FF13 Trilogy where serah(lightning's sister) were revive 😂🎉😂🎉
Aerith says, "I saw what you did for me" I think he did place her in the water. I did like that he was having the same conversation with her they had in Sector 5. He was supposed to say goodbye then and didn't.
~Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback"~ It became clear that this big Rebirth's momentum is gathering lots of discussions, something that is sweating real good thinking and clearly contributes for what I see as intentional by the devs. There is though a relatively hardcore type of dichotomic discussion between sort of 'wishful thinkers' (Aerith lives on) and another sort of 'reality swordsmen' (same story, only otherwise) not one I was specially against or tired of anyway; but: Taking the info as it has been unfolded here, well, back to the start of the video, Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback" being played according to Nomura's advice of "portraying" the famous scene of discord. If we take that directly this reading of declarations, same point stands actually for both stances. Ambiguity. So, yeah, Aerith could have been saved by Cloud and yes, she may survived. We can enter the discussion of whether it happens in each or that time or plane, there lies the true break down. Again, not ignoring the discord but facing it, the unreliable narrator has become some recurrent and suposely valid bias to assert this storytelling. Some kind of general assumption. But whose narration is reliable? There is some hard incursion of relativization in the metha narrative that the new trilogy began to bring in, so fluently and wisely defined lately, that has indeed an actual and prominent presence in this masterpiece that is Rebirth. So, don't rely too much in the presumed script and begin better to doubt about inner intuitions, even if not completely. An accurate analisys demands to scan the devil in the details.
Them being able to confuse every player is the best part of this ending, cause we just don't have a surety of aerith's death anymore, cause in that finale it seems the timeline broke multiple times, so which one is even real ? we have cloud who wasn't able to break free and aerith dies the classic way, which is where the speech is from originally. We have cloud that broke free indicated by the rainbow light that comes from beneath him so that's a timeline change Then we have him deflect sephiroth which again indicated by rainbow light means timeline change but we switch back to then aerith being dead so maybe post breaking free deflecting sephiroth or missing are 2 separate timelines, so in just that one scene we have 3 of them in play. I do believe we are in the 2nd timeline where he breaks free but misses the deflect and probably the 3rd timeline aerith is around. Also her ribbon color keeps changing, it is purple in our timeline but the one who joins us in the lifestream to fight sephiroth has a pink one. Or maybe I am just colorblind I want aerith to live soo bad not for cloud's sake but for me.
Maybe cloud said thst but he can not remember.. Also when Aerith wake up the shadow line of tear are gone too like never happened That suggest all of Aerith wake up are just a Dreaming..
imagine being plagued with so much faith in the original that you can’t accept what the devs have given us this go around. this remake is genius, beautiful, and fresh. it has allowed me to truly emotionally dive into a story that has so much nostalgia for me. i played the original when it came out in 97 even tho i understood almost none of it, getting to understand it even more now in my 30s is so beautiful to me. i love this game so much and i am so excited for part 3
Goddamn. If they really do it like the way you said, that will be really anothet twist of the knife in my heart already. There are so many hints that this game is like a second run for Aerith, Cloud and Sephiroth. What's the point of second chances if the end results are the same? Why talk all about defying destiny if Aerith is destined to be a spirit guardian in the Lifestream just like Advent Children?
Yeah it’s just going to hit twice as hard if they wait to reveal her truly being dead, and imagine cloud, going through the stages max dood also said the aerith cloud sees is Jenova, fucking with him which makes sense because he has Jenova cells, and who just died aerith, so it’s better than the original since it should have went down like that due to his connection to Jenova, indirectly, in the original even, plus imagining cloud, becoming a dark knight like a inverse of Cecil, in FF4, becoming a Paladin, which means cloud is a suppose to be a rune knight so not a Paladin, but similar, and Tifa, red, and Barret, are probably going to get worried when cloud busts out this dark moves that cut him when he uses them imagining cloud soaked in blood cackling on the way to hand Septhiroth, the black materia like everything is great he just has more power to defeat Septhiroth right RIGHT.
I’m not convinced until I see a buried body. For a story to be good, we need an unexpected twist and I didn’t get that from the alter scene- just a big question mark looming over my head. I didn’t react. The difference in the newer games and OG is that Aerith knows about her fate and so does Cloud. Aerith tells Cloud at the Costa Del Sol beach that, “can’t say when you’ll meet (her future self) but, trust me, you’ll love her.” Why would they add black and white arbiters of fate that change destiny if we get the same outcome? Cloud and Aerith’s song lyrics are parallels and are hopeful about the future. We don’t know what happens to Zack when we see him at the church in the end. Why is it that IF Biggs is actually in the Lifestream in Rebirth-he dies again? How can you keep dying if you’re dead already?? Where is Jessie? Is she with her dad who she claimed was stuck in between life and the Lifestream? What is up with the multiples of Holy materia empty then filled? Why does Cid casually ask, “What did Aerith do?” This game is not the same as OG.
With Nomura’s comments as well as the unused official voice recording for Cloud’s original lines, I really think that this story is going down the ‘Sephiroth is creating an illusion of Aerith for Cloud to drive him crazy’ theory.
It kinda breaks my heart to get this confirmation because I LOVE Cloud's speech when Aerith dies. It's stuck with me ever since my first playthrough. I was really hoping we'd hear Cody Christian recite the speech. Maybe they'll include the lines somewhere in Part 3.
I have played the OG and that moment was the most emotional I have ever felt in a video game. But for that scene I was almost positive it was the words he spoke in the OG, I wasn't 100% sure, but now I know, the look on Clouds face the tears in his eyes, you could just tell it was what he was saying. But I never had any doubts Aerith was gone, what was confusing was why they wanted to raise doubts whether or not she did die, I guess we'll see why in part 3.👍
Septhiroth, messing with his mind is really diabolical like seriously they have made him even worse in the remake series, since he has access to the omniverse, which you could say aerith, from the ending of og, has the same ability so she’s helping cloud, but the remake version is truly dead, and is going to be in the lifestream, but won’t gain more control over timelines, though still Septhiroth, switch’s, out the dead aerith event with the favorable outcome being placed in, so cloud is even more of a puppet because at in the original he felt true emotion, but in rebirth he’s feeling fake emotions while everyone else feels the effects of her dying in front of their eyes.
cause cloud is an unreliable narrator. just like what he is doing with the zack in his mind, and the sephi in his mind. theres a version of aerith in his mind. for cloud, zack died at the river. whats tifa's reaction on that? what's aerith's reaction on that? tifa knows that zack in fact did not die on that river. now for cloud "aerith is alive, i saved her. shes now standing there waving being cute. shes with the party doing aerith stuffs" but the whole part knows that aerith did in fact died in the altar.
I think so long as someone watches through the ending even just twice, its not even up in the air, its all cloud, the weird part of it all tho I will say, is that it feels like at times when cloud sees her it could be a number of things each time, a general hallucination, an actual lifestream aerith that is appearing to him alone, or a jenova manipulated hallucination. Just the way she talks in the final scene is a little bizzare, on one hand she tells cloud in the sleeping forest to worry about himself, don't blame himself, let her deal with sephiroth, then cut forward to this weird aerith and its "you're gonna go after him? Promise??" Which yeah sure, you could sorta interpret that as "well he tried to kill her, in his head of course she'd want him to go stop him" but its just so conflicting with those earlier lines, gotta be intentional. Not to mention she's talking about the meteor as if its already started or something, and a lot of what she's saying in general is basically imitation of things she's already said, things cloud can imagine her saying, send up smoke, its like a second home, such and such, but the one thing, that even credits itself is getting at? Everything from the moment we go to save her till the very end is missing in the credits, except the goodbye, weirdly enough its like the hallucinations end there and its just... her
Fun fact: the stages of grief are not in any particular order. Kübler-Ross, in her writing, makes it clear that the stages are non-linear. Much like this game 😊
I do love this approach to the ending. I’m not sure the execution was done as well as it could have been, but I see the vision and I’m really keeping an optimistic mindset for the final installment. There is a lot that’ll need to play out to tie up all loose ends, but I’m truly looking forward to how they deal with Cloud’s denial and eventual acceptance of who he is. If they nail it, they’ll have accomplished something truly extraordinary in gaming history; making a 25+ year old game fresh and relevant again.
Thoughts: Arieth exists, whether physically depends on whether new timeline created by clashing swords (rainbow) Tifa, like Cloud, notices two timeline visons, though hers have Arieth passed out, one has no blood. Angle of sword with blood vs no blood prior to it being unearthed at crime scene is different White Plot Ghosts follow Arieth and opens gates to Cloud timeline for her, plus she said I saw what you did back there as if she was an audience rather than the major part of the scene. Arieth learnt how to work the lifestream in temple prior to the prayer site = possible plot point? Possibility Arieth of that timeline has passed on, Japanese transcripts for scenes show both Church dream and Endgame scene Arieth saying Sayonara or farewell, as in we may never see each other in a while or ever again.
He said: "Oh god, they put us into a Nomura Multiverse!! You Monsters!!! How could u do this to us?! Sephiroth please just stab me, end this mess pls!!"
I finished the game a few days ago and my heart is still completely shattered. I need part three as soon as possible, yet I don't think that will heal me.
I wonder if Square Enix on the next FF7 there will be 2 kinds of outcomes we can choose. Ether Aerith lives or not. Just like the game Metal Gear Solid. If we submit the torcher chamber Meryl dies and we get the Invisibility cloak. But if we don’t give up Meryl lives and we get infinite ♾️ Ammo.
I think even when we get to see exactly how events play out i believe things will def not playing out in the way we remember. And i think its evidenced by tifa's reaction, specifically her focus on cloud holding aerith in the manner he is. Part 3 is probably gonna be the most tumultuous stuff we've ever seen.
I was mixed on this ending at first but I think it could be a really interesting twist if they go in the direction that Cloud doesn't believe that Aerith is dead. I better not die before the final part of the trilogy releases.
We’re still going to get those lines in the 3rd game. They will do flash backs when cloud’s memory clears and becomes himself again it will be a impactful memory. I hope they show him putting her in the water cause they robbed us of that.
Appreciate the news update! However I disagree with your interinterpretation that she is dead. She is most certainly alive in another timeline and we have clear indicators of that through the rainbow effect, and the actually parry of Sephiroth’s sword. This has been confirmed by the developers. So we may get to see the scene of her death in the next part, I believe we will also see her return to the party in some way and it will be incredibly special. Looking forward to the next game!
Imagine Cloud's Limit Break is full only in the final battle vs Sepiroth in part 3. (When you think that in part 2 only Cloud didn't get the Limit Break full, whilst all the others have it). It will be simply brilliant!
Brilliant idea. I can imagine first chapter be somewhat like the Nibelheim flashback. Aerith fighting alongside us because Cloud has not accepted her death yet with the funeral at the end
That final date with Aerith came off to as the devs telling you no matter what you pick or want, they are going to give you something that wasn't an option and you will like it anyway, doing it multiple times just to make you get over it and accept what they created
Do you know if there are articles that interview the Japanese cast on their work? I play these games in original language and would love to know what they have to say. Maybe they are in the ultimania?
I've been thinking a lot about the potential title for the third game in the Final Fantasy VII trilogy, and "Resurrection" seems to make the most sense for several reasons: 1. **Hall of Resurrection**: The term "Resurrection" has already been used in the Hall of Resurrection, setting a thematic precedent. 2. **Nomura's Naming Theme**: Nomura has stated that the name "Rebirth" was chosen to evoke themes of starting anew. Following this pattern, "Resurrection" fits perfectly for the third game, as it continues the theme of renewal and revival. 3. **Progression of Power**: If you consider the progression from remaking something, to rebirth, and then to resurrection, each term becomes more powerful. Remaking something is a lesser feat compared to giving birth to something, which involves creating life. Resurrection, however, is the ultimate feat-bringing something back to life, which has never been achieved. This aligns with the trilogy's goal of escalating the stakes and achievements with each installment. Given these points, "Resurrection" seems like the most fitting and powerful title for the final game in the trilogy.
Schrodingers Aerith. Read that somewhere, made me laugh. I would like to know what Aerith mouthed to Tifa after Yuffie and Cait opened the door on the almost kissing part.
im taking it as a "im rooting for you" tifa and aerith has this weird dynamic towards liking cloud that they both acknowledge that the two of them has a some form of attraction towards cloud. they both root for each other and at the same time fighting for the spot. aerith specially has a weirder place cause shes constantly at the "can i really love him like this? but no, its wrong! its not meant to be! but, maybe?" situation... which she then got her answer, from their final date.. that they are just not meant to be no matter what question is, tifa.. after all through what happened, shes not just weirded out by cloud's action but also scared...
here i am trying to read the lips of the youtube video at 25% speed and what i gathered was the original line "This cant be real" but i had the right idea but the wrong lines DAMMIT i was even comparing the lips between the japanese and english version just to confirm they were actually saying something meaningful
The development team knows what it wants and isn't intimidated by groundless outside concerns. We saw this with them doubling down with the Wall Market segment way back in Remake, and we're seeing it now with their unrestrained approach to the characters and the world. Going back and playing the original release, I was surprised just how much my memory of the game betrayed me.
In short, the game developers are drawing the player’s attention to the fact that Cloud in Rebirth says the same thing he did in the 1997 original, suggesting that they want to convey, “Look, the worlds of the OG and Rebirth are mixing.” That’s why the White Materia that Cloud received faded. For balance, there can’t be two White Materias, so when the one from the OG was ported into Rebirth, it overwrote. As a result, the memory of that world either got mixed up or overwritten.
But she’s not gone. She’s in every scene still talking to Cloud. He’s not in denial if she actually reveals her motive inside of the livestream to him.
This is a beautiful way to capture the struggle that is accepting loss/trauma. Cloud can't process it, he's in a state of shock, hes 21, Aerith is 22, they're both very young, it's overwhelming. I do believe Aerith is helping him from the other side though. Physically dead obviously, but joined with the Lifestream as originally intended.
Having said that, I don't believe he's FULLY hallucinating when he sees Aerith, I think she's still trying to keep his sanity together at the seams, spiritually guiding and trying her best to protect him from Sephiroth.
I watched another video. It is super long like over an hour, but it’s a filmmaker who goes literally seen by scene, framed by frame, pointing out all the little nuances of the ending of this game. I am a mega fan, got the collectors edition of both games so far, and love the direction they’re going, and I have a friend who hates the ending of this game. I see both sides, but I really love all the little subtle hints of clouds. Mind disappearing that we don’t get fully from the OG game. I think the black material is also his internal rage that he can’t deal with yet so after denial, he’ll have a breakdown sad moment and then rage, which will be pretty incredible. And then acceptance, and then his joy will return with Tifa as they head off to Costa del Sol for bow Chicky Bow Wow😂
they are setting tifa up to break down so bad... thats psychological wise and mental health wise. she is dealing with internally more than what she is telling others. thats just her. go see how she deals with her problems in remake. she has deep baggage that she feels no one cares. if we didnt know whats going on with cloud, tifa probably has the most pressing depression compared to the rest. she would break down, she would probably give up on cloud.. she wouldnt know how to deal with him anymore. she would probably feel drowning. she would probably blame herself for playing along with cloud then something would happen that she would realize that cloud really needs help and shes the only one left to give that to him one of the criticisms of AC is that why does tifa still cares for cloud that way even though he is a jerk to her. they would probably give her that reason on the 3rd. hopefully, by the end of it, she could regain her cheerful self
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft I think she will because the Lifestream scene in the orig game is iconic and I don't think the devs would not show it. She's probably too worried at the moment about Cloud to react, but as she said in this game "You saved me, now it's my turn"!
Can't say I love how this scene was depicted, definitely think the OG did it better. It was sad, shocking, and didn't leave you trying to guess what the hell happened. That being said I think there's potential to show what really happened in part 3 when Cloud and Tifa enter the lifestream. The fact that they left out the lake burial and Cloud's speech seems intentional, they are way too iconic to not show in some form, so I think they have plans for it later, and allow cloud to see what really happened when his mind gets fixed.
Yeah I mean, it 100% lost most of the impact and emotion of the moment, it kinda does suck that this is how it is for now, but I do think they're gonna really try to nail that lifestream scene so hard though, like the entirety of ff7 was never really building up to her death, or defeating sephiroth, no everything led up to the return of cloud, the actual cloud, him and tifa putting him back together and becoming who he should've always been, and the moment now should be laced with all the reveals and emotions, just as it was back then but even more so. Back in the day the game glossed over Zack cus that's all they had in mind for him at the time, but now when they remember him they can do so much more with it, and the aerith scene, we can already imagine how it will actually play out, but what we didn't get that I think we should, is to see everyone else there with cloud as he buries her and their final words to her and just how emotional they actually were in those moments, and it isn't like "well he himself was being an unfeeling freak in those moments everyone musta been disgusted with him" but that must be only after the burial right? Since we didn't see any of it, and we know everything that he was saying and feeling did happen to a degree, just that he repressed so damn much of it so damn hard. I think the weird part that is off, is the looks tifa gives cloud near the end, she looks as if to wonder how in the hell he is smiling and seemingly uncaring immediately after she was laid to rest, I don't imagine that's all in clouds head too, but it must be as if a switched was just flipped in his mind for him to think "yeah, she's still around, weird lake we're sitting at though, when did we get here again? Oh well, just glad I saved aerith!" Like he is so far gone...
Aerith is dead for now in the timeline we play I think . My theory is that both the gang and Sephy are trying to create 2 new timelies 1 in which Sephy wins and 1 in which he loses forever and Aerith is alive. Protecting Aerith is something we hear multiple times like from Red and Marlene and also the fact Zack is so important could mean he's gonna come back and see her again. To me looks like something too big and important to ignore, like a central theme of the remake's new story (fans will now be able to save Aerith and have a good happy ending after 20+ years). It looks like when Cloud parries Sephy's attack there is a new reality created (because their wills and Whispers are at the moment equally as powerful, we see many struggles with white whispers against black ones) where she is alive but only Cloud and Red can see her/interact with her and Cloud doesn't remember/realize she's dead in his own current timeline which is the one we play in so the one where she is alive is the one we want to get as the only possible in existence at the very end of the journey. The rest of the gang knows that she's dead but they have to deal with Cloud's deranging mental health from the mako poisoning and Sephy's influence so they don't tell him so he doesn't completely lose it and also because if he realizes like in the original game then the events would play out the same with Aerith's dead and Sephy still going around the multiverse. Also in one scene when Cloud is still unconscious after the fall in the temple, we see Aerith talking to the others but we dont' hear her voice and I suspect that's the moment she told them she was gonna die but to not tell Cloud or the new timeline would not happen and while they would not live this new timeline now, it would merge in the end with the reunion. I expect in the third game the gang will have to put up with Cloud's state and there may be some attrition while they continue on the quest to stop Sephy and while Aerith provides guidance from the lifestream. Barret told Cloud a not so convincing "Ok we trust you" when Cloud said he instinctively knew where Sephy was so he's worried Cloud cloud go crazy or become Sephy's puppet 100% and Tifa was speechless because Aerith's unavoidable death was a gut punch of course and also because seeing Cloud in this state where he suffers and he's losing his mind hurts but she has to endure it so that the gang can achieve their goal. Lemme know if I'm wrong or missing something. I love this game so much and also to make theories about the story. I never played the og FF7 and the only thing I knew before playing Remake and Rebirth is that Aerith dies because I didn't want any other spoilers and to experience the story myself the first time with Remake. I'm going to play og FF7 soon because now I want to know the story and be able to compare the games. Thank you so much for reading all of this :) I also have a cool evil Cloud theory where he kill Aerith because of Sephy's mind control but I think it doesn't work maybe because of some details that can dismiss it.
Third part wont be canceled. They already said what they are planning for part 3 in a fresh interview. They are going even to rebuild the overworld in a way that the highwind will be able to fly around everywhere. But yea the sales are sad considering how goid Rebirth was
@@Silverfish-qv8igi dont think the multiverse helped.yall kept talking about exclusivity,yet stellar blade pre-sales are better than ff7 a game with 30 year old fan base.stop coping.no one asked for this mess and the sales are showing it.nothing to do with ps5 only.tell me how it sells worse than 16?you guys have no excuses but refuse to see the truth
Even if sales weren’t that good, FF7 is Square Enix biggest most popular IP. They will deliver another AAA game just for the sake of the FF brand. But yes, they might cut the budget some….
you should make a video explaining what the point of Zack even coming back to life was and rebirth because once I finished the game, I was just like “so why was Zack even here again…?” His story wasn’t really that important besides Marlene basically being an ancient and him somehow joining worlds with cloud, but I want more like an explanation on that
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Square has done what I think most of us considered impossible: They have recaptured the "unreliable narrator" aspect of the original FF7. WE as the audience have no idea what's real or what isn't, and that's quite the accomplishment for a remake of a 25-year-old game. I believe the beginning of FF7R-3 will establish that THAT did, in fact, happen, and that Cloud really is losing his goddamned mind so it sets up the tension right off the bat for what's to come in the finale.
Yeah it's really awesome how they've been able to do that again. I used to watch your pokemon tcg openings back in the day. Hope you're doing well
@@muby102 I WAS doing well until I played through Rebirth, don't know if I'll ever recover from that. (But yeah, no worries, I'm all good)
Is that the point of this multiverse stuff, it's just a tool to try and get people in the same headspace as OG, so they can just do the same exact thing again as OG? Jeez there's meta and then there's meta. If this is the case I really think a fully faithfull remake would have been a better choice, the OGs story can stand on it's own without any extra steps to get there imo.🤷♂
If og cloud was the unreliable narrator, how come he was able to tell the "acceptance" story - aka dead aerith?
He was unreliable in many aspects. He didn't tell about jesse, he didn't tell about whispers, he didn't tell that they fought sephiroth after the chase scene, he didn't tell he's been meeting sephiroth at the edge of creation in between worlds, he didn't tell that there were multiple worlds as sephiroth explained, he didnt tell that sephiroth wanted to hurt the planet by kompressing the time...lines. he didnt tell that he fought with zack and aerith.
But if there's one thing he got right in og - aerith is really dead.
As much as I can’t stand the finale of this game, you make a great point. Clouds delirium is done masterfully
Further proof of Cloud's mind unraveling: When you start the final battle with Sephiroth, everyone else's Limit breaks are already fully activated in their grief and rage. Only Cloud's is not activated because he thinks Aerith is still alive. If you didn't notice that detail, go back and play that part again.
Not only that but before this he really was deranged when trying to retrieve the black materia, and after her death his mind just worsens even more.
I swear every bumass nerd spamming the same comment in every damn FF7 video
Yes, let me just start the game back over from the beginning to see this detail at the VERY END of the game that you just made me aware of...
@@AT-qu2bz Then move the f**k along and don't read. Just a thought. Also, if you're watching that many FF7 videos, you're also a nerd, sorry to break it to you. Embrace it instead of being a pressed jerk.
@@EastToWestTCG Or, you know, instead of you being an a**hole for no reason, you could just go on someone's LP and watch it there in just a few minutes. I found out this little detail and decided to share it because I didn't notice it myself in my playthrough. Figured I would point it out in case other people didn't notice it.
And now, you and the other ignorant person above have commented here in the negative, being completely and unnecessarily sarcastic and rude about it. Why? You want a gold star for being a jacka**?
I'm surprised this was a mystery to many, I already figured that Cloud was saying his OG lines.
Exactly.
Yea I figured it was obvious for people who played the OG
@rsoxboy I haven't played the OG and it was obvious to me. "Oh he's saying his original lines!".
Agreed. I didn’t know this was a mystery among the community
@@drakenfist No it wasn't stop capping.
That moment in Remake when you hear Cloud say "That's my line" right at the beginning of the game. Thats when you knew this wasn't the average anime voice over.
Cody Christian was the Cloud we have dreaming of for the past 27 years, and he has fucking nailed it from Remake to Rebirth and I can't wait to see this guy do it again for part 3.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And part 3 will be a fucking peak of his voice acting time (probably).
When I play OG now, his voice is all I hear. But interestingly enough it wasn't too different than the voice I "gave" Cloud before FF VA was even a thought.
That's a good thing
!00% agree!!
I still get nostalgic for Steve Burton's voice sometimes...but that's mostly because me and my mom watch him everyday on General Hospital lol!
@TriforceofButts I'm not one for making the argument of "who's better". They both crushed it.
Just wanna say that Maximillian Dood on twitch said this when he finished the game so some of us kinda had an inkling to it. Also what this means is that the lines were recorded. Cloud will have to recognized it happened on part 3 and we will hear and see the scene. We weren’t robbed. We will just go over it next part.
It's probably gonna be the last piece of tifa putting his mind back together. He can't become whole again until he accepts that Aerith is gone
YUP! Max called all of this! Right when it happened and im willing to bet his aerith theories are pretty much right 😂💯
@@doworkm0037 its obvious. Trying to ground Max's crackpot theories on that is reaching too hard.
It won’t have as much shock value tho
getting that scene 3 years later removes all emotion from it.
I think the scene with aeriths funeral in the water already happened, because the next thing we saw, after aerith was opening her eyes for cloud, is a cut to them all sitting devastated by the water. So probably they had the funeral in the water, but since we see it fom clouds perspective, we now see aerith still alive....so the actual scene, what really happened and how the others saw/experienced everything, will probably come after or during the process of him getting his memories back?!
But they did a fantastic job of making aeriths death so mysterious and unfinished and it makes a lot of sense. We know already how much zacks death effected cloud, so it's not that surprising, that he isn't taking her death very well, too
I like this thought and I hope they go this direction. We already know he's got mixed memories and things he's blocked out of his mind. It would be neat for them to say we didn't show it in the game, but it did happen. Cloud could not accept her death and it became another thing he has blocked out until he was able to figure out his story.
Notice they also leave empty frames in the end credits where these scenes should be. Not just that they're not in the credits, but they actually leave space - to imply that the memories have been suppressed, I think.
I trust the devs with the outcomes of everything in the game. They first made those scenes we love in the original and now they are making even more greater things. People forget that this is their game their story. They decide what happens in game as they originally created it. Im just ready for part 3. I love part 1 i love part 2 and i know for sure i will love part 3 💯🔥
Agreed. The fact that we can even have these debates about a game that was so important to so many of us after all these years is nothing short of magical and I'm so excited to continue on the journey
@@lucystoole4355 i love you 2
Thank you !!
Absolutely. The devs love this franchise more than anyone. They are all putting capstones on their epic careers. They love and appreciate the fans. They’ve got it covered. Positive and constructive feedback is all that is required from the fan base.
2027
I could imagine the scene playout during the moment when Tifa puts Cloud's mind back together.
Cloud shows that he saved her.. then Tifa says "No, Cloud that's not what happened." with the whole death scene proceeding to be on display including her burial.
Probably this is the best outcome
Why not ? But Tifa wasn't there she only saw the final outcome and a lot of the OG Tifa/Lifestream scene from the OG was already shown during the Gongaga incident. What more could she say ?
And what about Sephirot showing the truth to Cloud like he did in the OG when he showed a vision of Nibelheim with Zack ?
@@Foxheimer Tifa knows she's dead though. The scene playing out would be in Cloud's fragmented memory. The Gongaga incident I believe was just a taste of what's to come.. Tifa had her moment of recalling events and Cloud will still have his - The truth of Zack will still be revealed to Cloud.. only with Aerith's death being added on top it.
It should happen before he got his memories fixed, the sudden realization of aerith's death is a good idea to further break cloud's sanity which is where tifa would come in to help cloud piece everything together, help him cope and acknowledge what happened
@@rainku498 Tifa saw 2 versions of the outcome of that scene. How can she be a reliable narrator ?
The taste is about 80% of the OG scene. They already establish the fall at Mt Nibel which was the pivot memory, the point of the OG scene was about facts. Common memories to establish if Cloud was the real Cloud.
Here it's something different. He doesn't seem to have issues with his childhood memories only everything that could question the "fact" that he is a "Soldier". I guess, now, he has to encounter a shock to realize but I don't see how Tifa can be that person ( I don't say she can't help him somehow) because she doesn't know. The only one who knows is Sephirot he did show the truth to Cloud in the Northen Crater in the OG. So why not in part 3.
Honestly, what I got from the ending was that it only SEEMS like Cloud is losing his mind by seeing Aerith. Nanaki notices her when she touches him, which may be a ghost-thing, but it validates that Cloud isn't simply halucinating. Aerith IS there, whether it's because he's seeing her spirit, or what I think: Aerith said goodbye because she saw her own death at the end of part one, and knew what was coming. The reason Nanaki can sense her isn't because she's a ghost, though. Cloud DID save her, and this is a symptom of the timelines converging that Sephiroth was talking about.
I think Cloud's disjointed because of what he experienced at the end of the game. There's two timelines: one where he successfully parried Sephiroth and saved Aerith, and one where things played out as in the original. That's why he sees the tear in the sky from the altered timeline while everyone else doesn't. That's also why they made the point of showing the Holy material bouncing the way it did in the original. They went out of their way to show that the Holy materia she drops is the white one of the original game's, not the empty one from this game. His consciousness is torn between worlds, so he's not grief-stricken because he DID save her, while everyone else is because the world where he did is a fractured timeline. An Aerith died, but one also lived, so I'm confident she'll return just like Zach did.
I like this idea
Perfectly said made it clear and concise unlike most other theories
@@gorman2283it’s not an idea, brother. Imo that’s what really happened.
Yeah but during the robochad mission red tells cloud he’s hearing things and that a persons spirit returns to the life stream. I thought red sensed her too but did he or was he just sad?
People gotta remember not only will he relive Aeriths death he’ll have to confront what actually happened to Zack too. They’re both rooting for him so he’ll have to fight for both of them when he comes to terms with his memories. Using Aerith and Zack as his inspirations to fight is gonna hit hard next game
Zack is alive isn’t he?
They made this game as close to the original as they could, to give us this very scene at the end is also to make the build ups across the board all the more relevant as well the stakes. Time will tell how they choose to end this phenomenal trilogy
As close as they could? I'll respectfully disagree there. Plenty close in many places, sure, but they didn't need to make the Temple of the Ancients into Gravity Land. Plenty of randomly added boss fights, Chadley again/still, the changes to Chocobo's... This could have been more faithful, and still jumped the shark when Nomura got bored and Leroy Jenkins'd his way into the forefront of the writing for the ending.
@@nathanstruble2177 oddly enough, I loved the gravity mechanic, and the visuals of seeing other areas of the Temple upside down or sideways in the distance. Frankly I wish the choices for how to manipulate it as you go through for treasure/progress weren't so obvious, and that it was even more of a puzzle. Felt like a proper dungeon crawl.
Ending is great, too. Puts even more emphasis on the actual biggest story of the OG before the reveal...Cloud the unreliable narrator and just how broken his mind is. Getting to likely see him have to come to terms with not only Zack's death but Aerith's as well when we fix his mind will be incredibly good, and they've built it up even better than the OG.
@@nathanstruble2177 and the Midgarsormr part. I was hoping for some masterfully done fight with Sephiroth and the serpent, impaling it with a tree but we got a KH version of it.. its almost the Trail of Blood scene for me again.
Man I hope part 3 comes soooooner.
What I think should happen is that part 3 should come out 2026 and a Advent Children dlc on 2027
@@nathanharris8762part 3 will definitely be 2027
@@kei7540 😭
Part 3 already been in development since 2023 with the latest info we have rebirth was done or mostly winding down in 2023 real work didnt start on part 3 till 2023 mid or late its been in development for a year hence why they say they want to stick with the 3 year window so it could come out in 2026 that would be 3 years becasue work started in 2023 main part already done voice recording starting in the near future according to SE so mid this year voice recording begins me thinks.
@@sora6748 Probably released on the 30th anniversary
hopefully this means we will get to see cloud lay Aerith's body into the water. thanks for the video explaination. i kinda thought that he was going through extreme denial. it makes perfect sense. it doesnt help that sephiroth is messing with him mind as well.
What pissed me off the most are the whispers. Seeing them in both games a lot gave me the hope that this time Aerith can be saved but no… they just had to break our hearts again. It’s a majestic and wonderful game full of happiness why do you have to add something so heartbreaking and dark like that without a happy closure? If part 3 doesn’t revive Aerith I’ll be very disappointed 😔
I’m glad to hear this because I really liked that scene in the OG and that was something I was looking forward to seeing.
“Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry......” I would cry so much.
when my dad ended his life in 2009 that night i had a dream where i was outside the house and he walked up to me and everyone was sad inside and he asked why was everyone said. i explained he ended his life that is why.. he said he would never do that and walked away. its sad but its true it was his depression that did it not him. what you were saying in this video brought up that memory of mine
he is now in hell for killing himself
@jemandjemand2362
Wow that was incredibly rude. How about you shut the fuck up! I don’t believe in hell but I hope they save a little room for you 😡
@irishspuds5894
Thank you for sharing what you experienced with us. I hope your father rests in peace knowing his memory lives on through you.
@@franimal86 idgaf
@@jemandjemand2362 I'm sorry that you weren't loved in the past. i hope there's someone out there that will change your hollow heart
'Cloud saying the OG line as a FLASHBACK'
Its happening fellas
absolutely nothing is happening. get a life
@@jemandjemand2362 tell someone to 'get a life' in a youtube video about a videogame. sounds legit.
@@jemandjemand2362 Know chance Adrith transferred the knowledge to Cloud like Red and Marlere, He beat him once and can do it again
@@jemandjemand2362 aww dont worry child, everything will be alright 😥👶👶
Great video explaining how they decided to change the story around a bit. I think how they handled her death this time around is very interesting, in a good way!
I think its a little quick to think that "Aerith is dead and that is that" because i feel this trilogy is showing us that even though that death is certain, Fate is not and it can be changed.
I’m a little inclined to agree. There are so many moments in the game where the game is pushing for “save Aerith.” Marlene says it to Zack when she says Cloud needs to be alive to save Aerith, Red says it on his date with Cloud that he must protect Aerith, and more. The whole defy fate theme that this trilogy is pushing seems to mean “protect Aerith.”
Yes. When Cloud clashed swords with sephiroth we saw a rainbow effect just like with Zack when he choose another option. Cloud sees the rift in the sky while the others dont. And now with the worlds merging its obvious whats gonna happen
But it's been said that this trilogy still honors and leads to Advent Children. If Aerith lives, it'll mess with the continuity and meteor won't be stopped and the world is destroyed. They're adding just enough to the games to mess with some of the player bass, but all major events still happen like the OG. Theory crafting is fun, but some people are drinking to much coolaid. 😂
I think for me it’s just a call back to OG and how I felt cheated out of a character. Yea sure the full roster could essentially do everything but I still liked Aerith for her limit breaks. I felt especially like meh here because I felt my blm was stolen from me lol. Still feels shitty and I hope they do follow through with the save Aerith spin so I can continue annihilating groups with spells😂
I mean they also said this remake was so they could do things they wished they could in the original. Why create an alternate storyline if things virtually remain the same? While there have been some minor changes, up to the point of the ending of Rebirth, things are actually the same with Aerith’s death taking place. We assume that due to her death all the events will play out the same but I think that’s the curveball. Still, it’s fun to theorize haha
When the mind takes more stress than it can handle, it can block out bad memories, like damage limitation. Some people cannot handle reality and create their own version of reality as a coping mechanism. Cloud is choosing to see what he wants to see.
I reckon in Part 3 at first Cloud is going to stick in denial mode.
The gang are going to make him have to confront his troubles (as he’s no good whilst his head is not right) and sooner or later his mind is going to break - he cannot handle the truth. Reckon he’ll fly into uncontrollable rage as he will feel like he’s been used and will believe that he should have done more, that he could/ should have saved Aerith. Would not surprise me if he tries to fight his own friends, and/ or runs off to try and cope with his pain.
The themes we have been seeing in the game have greatly been expanded upon since PS1, but it makes you realise with such limited resources what a fabulous game FF7 was and a remarkable achievement of its time.
No Nanaki clearly felt Aerith’s presence at the end when she’s walking around.
That’s why he called out to her.
Y’all just not even paying attention .
I am soo happy Cody is voicing Cloud! He just is cloud for me! Such a match!
The full transcript read that Nomura said something like "...that's why the team delivered, having Cloud successfullly deflect Sephiroth". That might come with more "clarifications" over time, but Tifa also sees two different scenes after the fact. Red senses Aerith when she touched him as well. Cloud looked surprised to see her at poolside. Too many indicators she's not "completely" dead. Cloud said "wake up", so it's similar to what Marlene was talking about would happen if she woke up in another timeline and why.
thats some heavy copium, she is omega dead lol. cloud is even more the unreliable narrator than he was in the OG, his head is totallt fucked, you cant trust anything he says or sees
@@cavsfightingroom3692 Not completely true. And it sounds like you're an embittered Cloti who would prefer she was totally dead ;)
But really, we know that at least some of what Cloud sees is real as the rainbow effect and Zack navigating worlds and being 'alive' is fact. Also the time when Aerith and Cloud fight Sep together, is real as Sep even responds directly to Aerith.
@@Silverfish-qv8ig Don't really agree, think it's more them showing clarification for how Aertih/Zack still are able to communicate/influence Cloud in key moments throughout the rest of the compilation despite being "dead". They exist in the LIfestream.
@@cavsfightingroom3692 They're the man's own words. I realize there's a lot of people chomping at the bit that Cloud will mentally be a carved up piece of roadkill but this scenario doesn't make things any easier, if true. You mix him actually seeing her, with instances where it is his imagination, with potential Jenova projections and this guy's going to get locked in a padded room by his friends. But Tifa saw it, Red felt her, and even Sephiroth told Aerith he underestimated her. Cloud isn't as much the unreliable narrator this time - the world is.
I think there are 3 things that are all happening simultaneously. 1 - Aerith is in the life stream and can kind of be felt hence why Red senses her. 2 - Sephiroth and Jenova are also messing with Cloud by pretending to be Aerith, hence all the times they talk about Jenova taking on the appearance of people, when specifically saying it pretending to be someone who was dead from goth Sephiroth and the Cetra message. 3 - Cloud is making stuff up in his mind as well. All three of those are happening and it will be a constant thing of wondering what is actually happening, what Cloud is being tricked into thinking, and what Cloud is tricking himself into thinking.
So I read some things about this. It seems like they might be using Aerith's 'death' as the Black Materia moment in the third part. That is when it will likely be revealed fully and officially what really happened (beyond Cloud just not being in SOLDIER). And in hindsight, this is kind of brilliant, because they're basically recapturing the concept of the unreliable narrator, where the game gives you the impression that one thing happened, but it's actually something else entirely that happened and Cloud is just mentally in denial.
We can't just have the twist be that he wasn't in SOLDIER. That would be way too predictable, esiecially to people that played the original and have foreknowledge, but having it be that he's in denial of Aerith's death coupled with the SOLDIER stuff, is a great way to have the scene pull the rug out from under the player again.
i personally think all things can be true at once. aerith died in our world but was also saved in another world. on top of that lifestream aerith also makes appearances here and there... the aerith we see at the end could either be an alternate aerith or "spirit" aerith. people lean too heavily into "she's dead" or "she's alive" camp depending on what they personally want to believe but what if they're all true at once? that way they can have their cake and eat it too: they'll have cloud confront her death and show us her full death scene in part 3 but then aerith having survived in some other world would also give them an excuse to keep aerith alive (at least alive for longer) and also make her reunite with cloud/the party in some way. if they brought back zack of all people, there's no way that aerith won't be appearing again in part 3 and have more screentime (not saying she'll be alive by the end of the trilogy but the "multiverse" stuff gives them an excuse to keep these characters alive in some way).
that way even if by the end of the trilogy she has do die no matter what at least they kept her alive for longer, gave her more screentime and gave her more moments with cloud and/or the other characters. i know some people might not like that but judging how they did this ending and how this trilogy is meant to kind of "wrap up" the FF7 world, i genuinely believe they'll try to kind of give a "happy" ending to the characters while also keeping the same story beats from the OG.
Oh I can't wait to hear those lines
I am definitely going to struggle to wait for the next one. It’s going to be soul crushing, but I need resolution.
I almost wish they wouldnt have had her stay behind in the end. I wish she would have "tagged" along and been playable and then it just hits us that we all thought she was with us the whole time and wasnt.
I'm starting to think that when Cloud and Tifa repair his mind, he will have to face his failures to save his mother, Zack, and Aerith, in order to remember that he never failed Tifa and kept his original promise.
I have a question and never received a real answer. Are we sure Tifa is going to repair his mind ? I mean everything from the OG scene was already showed during the Gongaga incident. Tifa didn't see Sephirot killing Aerith and she doesn't know what happened after Sephirot attacked her in the in Nibelheim's reactor.
I mean what more could she say ?
@@Foxheimer I'm not sure what you mean tho, clouds perception of many things are still wrong, he thinks he knows what happened to Zack and all, but he doesn't, he thinks aerith is alive, she isn't, you say tifa didn't SEE it happen but it doesn't matter if they didn't turn the corner right as it did, everyone else experienced something far different than cloud actually did, they turned the corner and saw him holding her, dead, they all went through the burial process, they had to have, and they were all pissed in the fight starting with limits except cloud, I will say though I can't remember the exact specifics of the childhood story but I thought there was more to it? Or that tifa is remembering wrong this time too and cloud was also feeding her wrong info in gongaga? At least I think I heard that somewhere, its been awhile since I saw the original lifestream scenes, but its also just possible that they go with some other story entirely for their recollection together if you're positive they've already gone over the original one.
@@SSlash Why do you reply if you don't remember the OG scene ? My main point is about the fact that 85% of that scene was already shown in Rebirth and that Cloud's memory is not as damaged as we think.
Cloud remembers the Promise made to Tifa, by himself, in Remake but in OG it's Tifa that comes with that memory. Making it un unreliable memory because of the ability of Jenova to create fake memories from what others people say.
That 's why, in the OG, the Mt Nibel memory is the most important because Cloud explains stuff to Tifa she didn't remember and it's at that precise moment she knows Cloud is the real Cloud and not a clone. (And from that he can deal with what really happened in Nibelheiml, accepting the existence of Zack and his failure as Soldier.)
All that stuff was already addressed in the Gongaga incident, he reminds her that her friends ran away and left her alone and that he fell of the cliff with her while trying to save her. That's the OG/Lifestream scene. The only missing stuff from the OG would be the reason why he wanted to join Soldier (To be noticed by Tifa)
If the Devs wanted to create new common memories between Cloud and Tifa they should have introduced them in a way or in other in Remake or at the beginning of Rebirth. Like they did in the OG/Remake with the scene when Cloud is talking to himself about "scratched knees back then" which was a reference to the Mt Nibel memory. You can't create a memory 5 minutes before a revealing scene
Cloud doesn't seem to have a problem with his childhood memories but mainly about everything that could question the fact he is a Soldier. I mean he remembers the name of Tifa's cat, that he didn't understand why that cat was named Fluffy. In the same side-quest you got a moment where he asked Tifa if she really believed he was happy being alone when they were kids.
Every factual elements that helped Tifa to repair Cloud's mind was already given to us and to Cloud. So except telling him "Aerith is dead" and "you were not in Nibelheim 5 years ago"
She knows that Zack didn't drown but she still doesn't know what happened to him after that famous night 5 years ago.
She didn't see Aerith getting killed, we can see from her eyes she has 2 visions on top of each other during that scene she seems baffled. Then you got Sephirot talking about "joy turning in to anger" with a close look of every party member full of anger but Tifa is not even shown.
What more could she say to Cloud to help him ?
I'm sure she is going to help him in a way or in another but it seems that the "Gongaga incident" and the fact that he remembers so much and so fast would defeat the purpose of that OG scene in part 3.
I'm glad you brought up Gongaga. I think the additional Aerith arm blood is false, but it could be one of two things. Something Sephiroth wants Tifa to see to make her fear Cloud killed Aerith, or something Sephiroth didn't want her to see, a lie he is preparing for Cloud, that Tifa picked up on because maybe she has a little bit of the Planet's defenses in her from being inside a Weapon. Either way she knows his current state is dangerous.
I felt like we were seeing three realities: Cloud's mind, the truth, and the new lie with more blood. I could absolutely be wrong though.
As for the lifestream memory sequence, Nojima considers it the most important part of the story, but I have no idea how it happens or how we'll get there. But things will get a lot worse for Cloud before they get better :D
@@ETHomerin There is blood on the ground too. Barret has that bloody vision (it's fast but you can see the blood both on the ground and on her arm) but Tifa has images when there is no blood at all. And when there is no blood you never see the face of Aerith.
I agree many things are in motion at the same time. The fact that before that scene we have so many references to the Expressway scene from Remake intrigues me especially that Cloud is the only one crossing a portal this time.
Thanks I'm not crazy thinking that lifestream scene may come in a different way. With everything that was brought to us; knowledge of the livestream, characters memories, the abilities of Aerith to travel trough world wouldn't she the best person to help Cloud in the lifestream ...
If you're a new audience player ...
Cloud falls in the lifestream ...
Aerith is dead so she is in the lifestream ...
I'm going to be crucified by thinking that lol
Thanks for you reply
I feel like you're making a lot of assumptions and taking things at face value. Is she actually dead? Maybe. Is he actually blocking it out? Maybe. But with all of the multiverse stuff that's going on, we can't know for sure.
We literally have a white materia from another universe. We literally have multiple versions of Zack floating around. It's entirely possible that he's not blocking out trauma, but he actually does think that she's still alive because he saw another version of her. It's also possible that the way that events actually played out for him is that he did, in fact, save her. We saw it happen and we saw the rainbow effect of reality splitting.
We can't *know* anything until part 3 comes out.
I'm completely agree, there's a lot more going on that we don't know about. Like you said when the rainbow light appeared, Cloud blocked Sephiroth's attacks, saving Aerith. She could still be alive in that timeline, but then the scene switches into the main timeline where Aerith dies. There, you see no rainbow light anywhere to be seen. There could be a possibility that there are two parallel realities where Aerith died and survived.
Yup. Agreed.
The thing about travelling through Cloud's memory is that, while the story he told in the original game was inconsistent with the truth, it wasn't completely made-up information. It was all consequential and the inconsistencies were just a reflection of Cloud. I don't understand why people are so ready to believe that all of those interludes we got through were complete fabrications of Cloud's mind as well-it seems not only silly, but pointless. If anything I'm just getting FF8 vibes from Sephiroth's actions and Squall dreaming about Laguna.
If you actually played the rebirth, you already know why Zack is brought back and dev's intention is made load and clear with Marlene. This time, in the final game, Zack will be working with Tifa to retrive Cloud's true memory or ability. In which form? I don't know. But When that happens Could will be awake before Aerith did in slum 5 and this time he will truly save her from the infinite death loop she's been stuck with. There is basically no denial that she will be brought back to life in the final game and there is so many hints on it. Two theme songs, Hollow, NPTK, the Loveless show, fellas, memory flashing, and most importantly the multi universe setting. The devs added all these new settings into the trilogy for only one goal: to finally save Aerith this time.
She's dead in advent children and the devs said this game is just going to make things line yo better, hence the inclusion of Zack. Cloud can't be the hero he's meant to be of they're alive.
This is a great take. It acknowledges different perspectives, but outlines the love that the devs have for this project. I think you can really feel the love here. Whether it lands or not, they are trying.
The fact that there is mass speculation about if and how Aerith is still alive, is a testament to the success of the storywriter putting us in Clouds mind.
I feel like more people had to understand what was happening during the "date" scene. It became painfully obvious how it was forcing the concept of "illusion of choice" onto the player which further the concept of destiny and accepting ones fate. It's sad knowing Aerith accepts what will happen to her but Cloud has to be prepared and face the challenge coming to him.
yap. the date was aerith coming to terms that
1) it doesnt matter if she likes "likes" cloud or not.
2) it doesnt matter if cloud likes her or not
3) it also doesnt matter if she could force cloud to do something or not
4) the relationship is just not meant to be. hence she realized what her stance is on about it, her position on it.
she was "testing the water" ever since she got her memory from the og.
she is both rooting for tifa and cloud(her whispher on tifa cloud gongaga scene)
but at the same time, she is trying to test force if she could be with cloud. thats why she was aggresive about doing little dates with cloud all through out. (kalm, costa del sol. even their gs date is her being aggresive with him) then finally inside that time raft.
she so wanted for the world to accept her feelings to cloud but its just not happening.
as for zack, i dont think that even the omniscient aerith knows that zack is still at play. zack would be that one who would break the illusion of choice and actually open up choices
thats why he wasnt angry about the aerith liking cloud.
in a way he wanted a fair fight with him. giving aerith the right to choose if you will.
*whispers* "I've been trying to reach you about your chocobo's extended warranty."
i always play my games in japanese as i am learning the language but whenever i see clips of cody’s voicework i have to admit he’s basically perfect
What FF7 achives in my opinion is the fact that the ending, regardless of her being alive or dead thanks to the multiverse thing going on (imho, it's still alive in a different universe and in P3 they're going to merge that) they still made us love this ending because aside from how confusing it was, I felt like a heart attack two times in a row, the first time when Cloud pushed away Sephiroth from hurting Aerith, and the second time when we saw the blood in his sword. And from there the whole suffering Cloud was feeling, along with his teammates. I want to believe she's still alive, or that they will bring her alive again, mostly because even in the OG FF7, at the final step of the game, when all party members are about to go deep into the final boss, there's an empty place that should have been filled by a character that probably at last decided to have it removed, and that 100% was Aerith from the beginning (you can easily look up this online). Great game, great gameplay, wish I could have P3 before another 4 years, sigh!
I am shocked, awed, and amazed at this trilogy so far. I was so worried (like many) that they would Nomura the hell out of this story and over complicate it (looking at you, Kingdom Hearts), but I think I can finally relax. They've got this, they know what they are doing, and I am SO EXCITED for the next game. It's good for OG players and newbies alike.
I think what most people are missing is that Cloud and Tifa (too early for Tifa) has Mako poisoning. Cloud and Red XIII has Jenova’s cells. For those that played the OG knows it’s about to go down psychologically. I think there’s a multiverse. The fact that The Temple of the Ancient is up north, Zack appears to be in the aftermath of the OG story with a destroyed Midgar, fighting all of Sephiroth’s forms too early, and different Stamps there something fishy going on.
Wait Red XIII has Jenova cells? I know he was in Hojo's lab but for some reason think he didn't receive them.
@@skewedpriorities1857 Remember Roche and number tattoos? It’ll explain a major event later on. The og black robes went by numbers. 😉
@@skewedpriorities1857 red mirrors cloud at many plot points that he almost comes up as a foreshadowing device for cloud
thats why i love that they cut to the 3rd act the way they did. its gonna be so dark and heavy psychologically wise, mental health wise, that im already hearing some complainers whining about it. its bound to get some people really uncomfortable. that is of course if the devs would not back out and dare to go all out on it.
the multiverse though.. its high time people realize that anime(which ff7 basically is) does not use multiverses like mcu does. there are of course similarities, but they are different.
We'll have to prepare to some unespected (and mostly pleasant) surprises
I think Cloud said what was in the original:
“What is this pain? My fingers are tingling, my mouth is dry, my eyes are burning!”
There are two Clouds in this scene:
The Sephiroth “clone” and the real Cloud. Notice the real Cloud cries, but the “clone” doesn’t realize Aerith’s death. She’s truly gone in this timeline and that’s something the real Cloud knows. However, Sephiroth’s clone abilities are overpowering the OG Cloud.
I think Aerith will play an important part in Part 3 regarding the awakening of the real Cloud again.
If this is going to play out this way then I feel there was absolutely no need for the multiverse lol
Not worth it. People needed time to allow the scene to cook and affect their emotions. And for first time players, you only get to experience Aerith's death for the first time once. First time players witnessed a botched scene. It could have been done to where we got both. We got the scene in which we witness the death and Cloud's speech and then they could have pulled the crazy mind stuff afterward.
There are plenty of times in the game in which we witness events in 3rd person and this needed to be one of them. Very pour form.
As someone who played PS1's FF7, I thought it was very obvious that Cloud's muted lines were his lines from the original game's death scene.
There are multiple timeless due to multiple worlds being created, whenever Destiny is defied. We were seeing one of the alternate timelines in Rebirth, where Cloud does not view Aerith as being killed and therefore is emotionally disconnected in her reactions and perceived reality from Tifa and the rest of the team.
Sephiroth says that the reunion was a confluence of worlds - creating a mixture of both emotions and realities.
It seems Sephiroth's goal is to further disconnect Cloud from his friends. He won't have that angry motivation to regroup himself and stop Sephiroth, if he doesn't fully believe that Aerith has been killed.
I like that they added to the GI and built off of the small side items from the first.
...i think this ultimately was the goal of sephiroth, breaking cloud to the point of being irreversible.
He was the one who ultimately stopped, he is his metaphorical kryptonite, he took control of him yes, but it was snatched by tifa.
Here, by killing aerith but sparing another, he has no grief to cling onto, he has no connection to tifa, because to him aerith isn't dead, cloud is damaged permanently and in nomura's eyes, it means sephiroth "has a new vessel."
He's planning to use to cloud to destroy the world in his stead
I think Aerith state is the same as Zack right now. If we think of Zack in rebirth, we would perceive that he is alive and kicking. But actually, in the main timeline, he is dead.
It’s true that in main timeline, Cloud will find out later that he can’t save Aerith but Aerith will remind him that he did save her and create the alternative timeline where she live on. I’m sure this kind of dialogue will happen when Cloud fall into lifestream after Tifa help him find himself. It will further motivate him to fight against Sephiroth. FF7 remake version will end with no main characters actually die. They just live on in another dimension where you couldn’t reach if you’re in the normal condition.
The reason why I think the burial scene wasn’t included is because it seems she’s not really dead. Sure in our world she was killed like normal but it also seems like shes still alive in one other timeline as given evidence to the prism light effect when Cloud blocks the sword; a feat that has in fact been confirmed he did as explained in the ultimatum by the developers.
It wouldn’t make sense to include all those moments if Aerith is still alive somewhere and the her story isn’t over.
They confirmed that saving Aerith was a product of Cloud's mind
Right because she does die in our main timeline, but they also confirmed in the ultimatum that we don’t know which version of Aerith we’re talking to at the end; “Is this her alive, in the lifestream, or him hallucinating, we’ll have to wait and see” was what they said.
@@joshz2491no. She is here
What I think might be happening there is Tifa might actually be seeing two separate versions of the events as well and the camera even focuses on her confused reaction as it’s happening, but then events unfold too quickly for her to process it so she sorta snaps back into the present of what’s going on.
We know earlier in the story she fell into the lifestream so this gives us the premise of her being slightly sensitive to the other things that might be going on.
@@joshz2491nothing further of my intention to redound in that type of dichotomic discussion between sort of wishful thinkers and another sort of reality swordsmen; but:
Taking the info as it has been unfolded here, well, back to the start of the video, Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback" being played according to Nomura's advice of "portraying" the famous scene of discord.
If we take that directly this reading of declarations, same point stands actually for both stances. Ambiguity.
P.S.: although Ultimania is a valid fount, it use to be usefuller to describe consummate facts than to anticipate current speculations, and does not quit to be an information organ buidt up from the SquareEnix intentional projections that reaches as far as it is designed to that extent.
What's the point if they went for the "Cloud's mind is broken?" angle? It's useless, futile and honestly, outragingly frustratingly... bad. The writers have made the plot convoluted for sure. But like they say, humans hate change. It's better to do something confusing and new than to stick to the same old crap. Remember how Ubisoft kept releasing Assassin's Creed every year until the public said we've had enough of the old routine? Until Odyssey came out or Origins and they hated it? And now Mirage is out, they hate it even more? You can't pander to these idiots, unsatiable consumers. Maybe they can try something most definitively new with Marvel's or Multiverse concepts and bring it differently. Maybe we can have Aerith being resurrected, coming here in a different timeline, etc. And Cloud's mind can be proven right. The question is, how can he be proven right? They already showcased him saying that he's traveled in another world, THAT IS A CEMENTED FACT. So why is this any different that he did save aerith and not deluded himself into thinking he did? You people are ridiculous.
He did and he didn’t save her. Remember the light when he tries to parry the blow? A new rift was created. There’s now multiple “dying worlds”-the original FFVII timeline, from the original game, where everything has already happened. The Beagle timeline where Aerith dies (the main Remake timeline), the Terrier timeline (where Zack is alive, Aerith is comatose, Barret and Tifa are dead), and the Pug, Pomeranian and Shiba Inu timelines (divergences created from the Terrier timeline.) Aerith learns in Remake that she’s going to die, because the original FFVII Aerith can manipulate the Lifestream and is fighting Sephiroth through it and shows both her alternate self and Red XIII.
We don't see alternate world versions of Aerith's death so much as we see Cloud's version of the events (Aerith is alive) and the reality (Aeirth's death) which is what everyone else cannonically is experiencing, hence why there is is no water send off. We are seeing events from the "unreliable narrator" Cloud, who has omitted that water send off from his mind.
I don't know. I think it's a mix of the two. Yes, he is blocking out the dead route, but I believe he also experienced an alive route too. The rainbow colouring is too important, as is the multiverse element. The Ultimania states this.
Personally, I think Cloud is hallucinating all that rainbow glitter but that's just me lmao.
What do you think about Tifa's point of view in this scene ? I mean isn't she a kind of more reliable "witness" ?
@@LynnyG Well, we know the rainbow pixie dust is real from the Ultimania, we also know that, sadly, all the multiverse nonsense is real too and that Zack is 'alive'.
Being an unreliable narrator doesn’t mean your unreliable all the time, sometimes we’re seeing the truth sometimes we’re not. Earlier in the story when Tifa falls into the lifestream the flickering effect takes hold again and actually shows him what he just did, so we know sometimes this can be shown as a true moment happening.
I really really hope that we can traverse the Forgotten Capital freely!
The Cloud recovery part will be expanded deeper, in OG some important tragic past are not mentioned.
the missing 5 years as Hojo lab's rat, the 1 year escape with Zack and Zack's death, now added for Aerith's death. I want see Cloud taken by Jenova after his total breakdown in North Carter and the party forced to fight him before he dropped into lifestream
wow and a lot of OG people were complaining they took out the OG lines. they in for a surprise in the 3rd installment
They took more than that.
Hehe i believe Aerith is 100% alive(clouds mind is not unraveling here is just that there is multiverse timeline that cloud sees-aerith alive and one is not-as per sephiroth conclusion of world) ...common sense will tell if zack was easily revive by whisperers of fate why not aerith(in crisis core i believe cloud sees zack died in the battle hehe thats the OG as well) ....in the third chapter it will be a very good ending for us as said by the director ...i think the storyline will be similar to FF13 Trilogy where serah(lightning's sister) were revive 😂🎉😂🎉
Aerith says, "I saw what you did for me" I think he did place her in the water. I did like that he was having the same conversation with her they had in Sector 5. He was supposed to say goodbye then and didn't.
~Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback"~
It became clear that this big Rebirth's momentum is gathering lots of discussions, something that is sweating real good thinking and clearly contributes for what I see as intentional by the devs.
There is though a relatively hardcore type of dichotomic discussion between sort of 'wishful thinkers' (Aerith lives on) and another sort of 'reality swordsmen' (same story, only otherwise) not one I was specially against or tired of anyway; but:
Taking the info as it has been unfolded here, well, back to the start of the video, Toriyama is stating the nature of Cloud's mourning lines as a "flashback" being played according to Nomura's advice of "portraying" the famous scene of discord.
If we take that directly this reading of declarations, same point stands actually for both stances. Ambiguity.
So, yeah, Aerith could have been saved by Cloud and yes, she may survived. We can enter the discussion of whether it happens in each or that time or plane, there lies the true break down.
Again, not ignoring the discord but facing it, the unreliable narrator has become some recurrent and suposely valid bias to assert this storytelling. Some kind of general assumption. But whose narration is reliable?
There is some hard incursion of relativization in the metha narrative that the new trilogy began to bring in, so fluently and wisely defined lately, that has indeed an actual and prominent presence in this masterpiece that is Rebirth.
So, don't rely too much in the presumed script and begin better to doubt about inner intuitions, even if not completely.
An accurate analisys demands to scan the devil in the details.
Them being able to confuse every player is the best part of this ending, cause we just don't have a surety of aerith's death anymore, cause in that finale it seems the timeline broke multiple times, so which one is even real ? we have cloud who wasn't able to break free and aerith dies the classic way, which is where the speech is from originally.
We have cloud that broke free indicated by the rainbow light that comes from beneath him so that's a timeline change
Then we have him deflect sephiroth which again indicated by rainbow light means timeline change but we switch back to then aerith being dead so maybe post breaking free deflecting sephiroth or missing are 2 separate timelines, so in just that one scene we have 3 of them in play.
I do believe we are in the 2nd timeline where he breaks free but misses the deflect and probably the 3rd timeline aerith is around.
Also her ribbon color keeps changing, it is purple in our timeline but the one who joins us in the lifestream to fight sephiroth has a pink one. Or maybe I am just colorblind I want aerith to live soo bad not for cloud's sake but for me.
I had a feeling Cloud was saying what he does in the OG.
Maybe cloud said thst but he can not remember..
Also when Aerith wake up the shadow line of tear are gone too like never happened
That suggest all of Aerith wake up are just a Dreaming..
I didn’t know that I needed part 3 so badly. Such an amazing game!
imagine being plagued with so much faith in the original that you can’t accept what the devs have given us this go around. this remake is genius, beautiful, and fresh. it has allowed me to truly emotionally dive into a story that has so much nostalgia for me. i played the original when it came out in 97 even tho i understood almost none of it, getting to understand it even more now in my 30s is so beautiful to me. i love this game so much and i am so excited for part 3
Goddamn. If they really do it like the way you said, that will be really anothet twist of the knife in my heart already. There are so many hints that this game is like a second run for Aerith, Cloud and Sephiroth. What's the point of second chances if the end results are the same? Why talk all about defying destiny if Aerith is destined to be a spirit guardian in the Lifestream just like Advent Children?
Yeah it’s just going to hit twice as hard if they wait to reveal her truly being dead, and imagine cloud, going through the stages max dood also said the aerith cloud sees is Jenova, fucking with him which makes sense because he has Jenova cells, and who just died aerith, so it’s better than the original since it should have went down like that due to his connection to Jenova, indirectly, in the original even, plus imagining cloud, becoming a dark knight like a inverse of Cecil, in FF4, becoming a Paladin, which means cloud is a suppose to be a rune knight so not a Paladin, but similar, and Tifa, red, and Barret, are probably going to get worried when cloud busts out this dark moves that cut him when he uses them imagining cloud soaked in blood cackling on the way to hand Septhiroth, the black materia like everything is great he just has more power to defeat Septhiroth right RIGHT.
Why tease us with the possibilities of saving her? To make it hurt more.
I’m not convinced until I see a buried body.
For a story to be good, we need an unexpected twist and I didn’t get that from the alter scene- just a big question mark looming over my head. I didn’t react.
The difference in the newer games and OG is that Aerith knows about her fate and so does Cloud.
Aerith tells Cloud at the Costa Del Sol beach that, “can’t say when you’ll meet (her future self) but, trust me, you’ll love her.”
Why would they add black and white arbiters of fate that change destiny if we get the same outcome?
Cloud and Aerith’s song lyrics are parallels and are hopeful about the future.
We don’t know what happens to Zack when we see him at the church in the end.
Why is it that IF Biggs is actually in the Lifestream in Rebirth-he dies again? How can you keep dying if you’re dead already??
Where is Jessie? Is she with her dad who she claimed was stuck in between life and the Lifestream?
What is up with the multiples of Holy materia empty then filled?
Why does Cid casually ask, “What did Aerith do?”
This game is not the same as OG.
With Nomura’s comments as well as the unused official voice recording for Cloud’s original lines, I really think that this story is going down the ‘Sephiroth is creating an illusion of Aerith for Cloud to drive him crazy’ theory.
Maybe Sephiroth will try to convince Cloud that he can defy fate and bring her back to life. That would be a good way to test Cloud's resolve.
More like two. One alternate Aerith and one might be Jenova.
It kinda breaks my heart to get this confirmation because I LOVE Cloud's speech when Aerith dies. It's stuck with me ever since my first playthrough. I was really hoping we'd hear Cody Christian recite the speech. Maybe they'll include the lines somewhere in Part 3.
I have played the OG and that moment was the most emotional I have ever felt in a video game. But for that scene I was almost positive it was the words he spoke in the OG, I wasn't 100% sure, but now I know, the look on Clouds face the tears in his eyes, you could just tell it was what he was saying. But I never had any doubts Aerith was gone, what was confusing was why they wanted to raise doubts whether or not she did die, I guess we'll see why in part 3.👍
Septhiroth, messing with his mind is really diabolical like seriously they have made him even worse in the remake series, since he has access to the omniverse, which you could say aerith, from the ending of og, has the same ability so she’s helping cloud, but the remake version is truly dead, and is going to be in the lifestream, but won’t gain more control over timelines, though still Septhiroth, switch’s, out the dead aerith event with the favorable outcome being placed in, so cloud is even more of a puppet because at in the original he felt true emotion, but in rebirth he’s feeling fake emotions while everyone else feels the effects of her dying in front of their eyes.
cause cloud is an unreliable narrator. just like what he is doing with the zack in his mind, and the sephi in his mind. theres a version of aerith in his mind.
for cloud, zack died at the river.
whats tifa's reaction on that? what's aerith's reaction on that?
tifa knows that zack in fact did not die on that river.
now for cloud "aerith is alive, i saved her. shes now standing there waving being cute. shes with the party doing aerith stuffs"
but the whole part knows that aerith did in fact died in the altar.
I think so long as someone watches through the ending even just twice, its not even up in the air, its all cloud, the weird part of it all tho I will say, is that it feels like at times when cloud sees her it could be a number of things each time, a general hallucination, an actual lifestream aerith that is appearing to him alone, or a jenova manipulated hallucination. Just the way she talks in the final scene is a little bizzare, on one hand she tells cloud in the sleeping forest to worry about himself, don't blame himself, let her deal with sephiroth, then cut forward to this weird aerith and its "you're gonna go after him? Promise??" Which yeah sure, you could sorta interpret that as "well he tried to kill her, in his head of course she'd want him to go stop him" but its just so conflicting with those earlier lines, gotta be intentional. Not to mention she's talking about the meteor as if its already started or something, and a lot of what she's saying in general is basically imitation of things she's already said, things cloud can imagine her saying, send up smoke, its like a second home, such and such, but the one thing, that even credits itself is getting at? Everything from the moment we go to save her till the very end is missing in the credits, except the goodbye, weirdly enough its like the hallucinations end there and its just... her
Fun fact: the stages of grief are not in any particular order.
Kübler-Ross, in her writing, makes it clear that the stages are non-linear.
Much like this game 😊
Seems creepy to have denial as the final stage…
I do love this approach to the ending. I’m not sure the execution was done as well as it could have been, but I see the vision and I’m really keeping an optimistic mindset for the final installment. There is a lot that’ll need to play out to tie up all loose ends, but I’m truly looking forward to how they deal with Cloud’s denial and eventual acceptance of who he is. If they nail it, they’ll have accomplished something truly extraordinary in gaming history; making a 25+ year old game fresh and relevant again.
Thoughts:
Arieth exists, whether physically depends on whether new timeline created by clashing swords (rainbow)
Tifa, like Cloud, notices two timeline visons, though hers have Arieth passed out, one has no blood.
Angle of sword with blood vs no blood prior to it being unearthed at crime scene is different
White Plot Ghosts follow Arieth and opens gates to Cloud timeline for her, plus she said I saw what you did back there as if she was an audience rather than the major part of the scene.
Arieth learnt how to work the lifestream in temple prior to the prayer site = possible plot point?
Possibility Arieth of that timeline has passed on, Japanese transcripts for scenes show both Church dream and Endgame scene Arieth saying Sayonara or farewell, as in we may never see each other in a while or ever again.
He said:
"Oh god, they put us into a Nomura Multiverse!!
You Monsters!!! How could u do this to us?! Sephiroth please just stab me, end this mess pls!!"
I finished the game a few days ago and my heart is still completely shattered. I need part three as soon as possible, yet I don't think that will heal me.
I wonder if Square Enix on the next FF7 there will be 2 kinds of outcomes we can choose. Ether Aerith lives or not. Just like the game Metal Gear Solid. If we submit the torcher chamber Meryl dies and we get the Invisibility cloak. But if we don’t give up Meryl lives and we get infinite ♾️ Ammo.
I think even when we get to see exactly how events play out i believe things will def not playing out in the way we remember. And i think its evidenced by tifa's reaction, specifically her focus on cloud holding aerith in the manner he is. Part 3 is probably gonna be the most tumultuous stuff we've ever seen.
I was mixed on this ending at first but I think it could be a really interesting twist if they go in the direction that Cloud doesn't believe that Aerith is dead. I better not die before the final part of the trilogy releases.
What else could he have been saying but the OG lines, it’s so clear now can’t believe I didn’t see it
This had me tearing up man. Ill never forget the very first time we lose Aerith in the OG FF7. It was a heart wrenching moment!
If course he said his OG lines. I'm not great or anything but that'd exactly how I saw it. It's great to have it confirmed. Thanks mate
We’re still going to get those lines in the 3rd game. They will do flash backs when cloud’s memory clears and becomes himself again it will be a impactful memory. I hope they show him putting her in the water cause they robbed us of that.
Appreciate the news update! However I disagree with your interinterpretation that she is dead. She is most certainly alive in another timeline and we have clear indicators of that through the rainbow effect, and the actually parry of Sephiroth’s sword. This has been confirmed by the developers. So we may get to see the scene of her death in the next part, I believe we will also see her return to the party in some way and it will be incredibly special. Looking forward to the next game!
Imagine Cloud's Limit Break is full only in the final battle vs Sepiroth in part 3. (When you think that in part 2 only Cloud didn't get the Limit Break full, whilst all the others have it). It will be simply brilliant!
Brilliant idea. I can imagine first chapter be somewhat like the Nibelheim flashback. Aerith fighting alongside us because Cloud has not accepted her death yet with the funeral at the end
Excellent video. I agree, ballsy but great choice. Poor Cloud.
That final date with Aerith came off to as the devs telling you no matter what you pick or want, they are going to give you something that wasn't an option and you will like it anyway, doing it multiple times just to make you get over it and accept what they created
Do you know if there are articles that interview the Japanese cast on their work? I play these games in original language and would love to know what they have to say. Maybe they are in the ultimania?
I've been thinking a lot about the potential title for the third game in the Final Fantasy VII trilogy, and "Resurrection" seems to make the most sense for several reasons:
1. **Hall of Resurrection**: The term "Resurrection" has already been used in the Hall of Resurrection, setting a thematic precedent.
2. **Nomura's Naming Theme**: Nomura has stated that the name "Rebirth" was chosen to evoke themes of starting anew. Following this pattern, "Resurrection" fits perfectly for the third game, as it continues the theme of renewal and revival.
3. **Progression of Power**: If you consider the progression from remaking something, to rebirth, and then to resurrection, each term becomes more powerful. Remaking something is a lesser feat compared to giving birth to something, which involves creating life. Resurrection, however, is the ultimate feat-bringing something back to life, which has never been achieved. This aligns with the trilogy's goal of escalating the stakes and achievements with each installment.
Given these points, "Resurrection" seems like the most fitting and powerful title for the final game in the trilogy.
Schrodingers Aerith. Read that somewhere, made me laugh. I would like to know what Aerith mouthed to Tifa after Yuffie and Cait opened the door on the almost kissing part.
im taking it as a "im rooting for you"
tifa and aerith has this weird dynamic towards liking cloud that they both acknowledge that the two of them has a some form of attraction towards cloud. they both root for each other and at the same time fighting for the spot.
aerith specially has a weirder place cause shes constantly at the "can i really love him like this? but no, its wrong! its not meant to be! but, maybe?" situation...
which she then got her answer, from their final date.. that they are just not meant to be no matter what
question is, tifa.. after all through what happened, shes not just weirded out by cloud's action but also scared...
here i am trying to read the lips of the youtube video at 25% speed and what i gathered was the original line "This cant be real" but i had the right idea but the wrong lines DAMMIT
i was even comparing the lips between the japanese and english version just to confirm they were actually saying something meaningful
The Mideel region is going to be intense.
The development team knows what it wants and isn't intimidated by groundless outside concerns. We saw this with them doubling down with the Wall Market segment way back in Remake, and we're seeing it now with their unrestrained approach to the characters and the world. Going back and playing the original release, I was surprised just how much my memory of the game betrayed me.
What exactly were the Wall Market concerns people had for Remake? I don’t recall
In short, the game developers are drawing the player’s attention to the fact that Cloud in Rebirth says the same thing he did in the 1997 original, suggesting that they want to convey, “Look, the worlds of the OG and Rebirth are mixing.” That’s why the White Materia that Cloud received faded. For balance, there can’t be two White Materias, so when the one from the OG was ported into Rebirth, it overwrote. As a result, the memory of that world either got mixed up or overwritten.
But she’s not gone. She’s in every scene still talking to Cloud. He’s not in denial if she actually reveals her motive inside of the livestream to him.
This is a beautiful way to capture the struggle that is accepting loss/trauma. Cloud can't process it, he's in a state of shock, hes 21, Aerith is 22, they're both very young, it's overwhelming. I do believe Aerith is helping him from the other side though. Physically dead obviously, but joined with the Lifestream as originally intended.
Having said that, I don't believe he's FULLY hallucinating when he sees Aerith, I think she's still trying to keep his sanity together at the seams, spiritually guiding and trying her best to protect him from Sephiroth.
I watched another video. It is super long like over an hour, but it’s a filmmaker who goes literally seen by scene, framed by frame, pointing out all the little nuances of the ending of this game. I am a mega fan, got the collectors edition of both games so far, and love the direction they’re going, and I have a friend who hates the ending of this game. I see both sides, but I really love all the little subtle hints of clouds. Mind disappearing that we don’t get fully from the OG game. I think the black material is also his internal rage that he can’t deal with yet so after denial, he’ll have a breakdown sad moment and then rage, which will be pretty incredible. And then acceptance, and then his joy will return with Tifa as they head off to Costa del Sol for bow Chicky Bow Wow😂
i have a question for you people is tifa going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3?
YES!!
@@cloudstruck2785 do you think tifa will save cloud? because at the end of rebirth she did not say anything to him at all.
they are setting tifa up to break down so bad... thats psychological wise and mental health wise.
she is dealing with internally more than what she is telling others. thats just her. go see how she deals with her problems in remake. she has deep baggage that she feels no one cares.
if we didnt know whats going on with cloud, tifa probably has the most pressing depression compared to the rest.
she would break down, she would probably give up on cloud.. she wouldnt know how to deal with him anymore. she would probably feel drowning. she would probably blame herself for playing along with cloud
then something would happen that she would realize that cloud really needs help and shes the only one left to give that to him
one of the criticisms of AC is that why does tifa still cares for cloud that way even though he is a jerk to her.
they would probably give her that reason on the 3rd.
hopefully, by the end of it, she could regain her cheerful self
@@ViewportPlaythrough ok is tifa still going to save cloud in part 3?
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft I think she will because the Lifestream scene in the orig game is iconic and I don't think the devs would not show it. She's probably too worried at the moment about Cloud to react, but as she said in this game "You saved me, now it's my turn"!
Can't say I love how this scene was depicted, definitely think the OG did it better. It was sad, shocking, and didn't leave you trying to guess what the hell happened. That being said I think there's potential to show what really happened in part 3 when Cloud and Tifa enter the lifestream. The fact that they left out the lake burial and Cloud's speech seems intentional, they are way too iconic to not show in some form, so I think they have plans for it later, and allow cloud to see what really happened when his mind gets fixed.
Yeah I mean, it 100% lost most of the impact and emotion of the moment, it kinda does suck that this is how it is for now, but I do think they're gonna really try to nail that lifestream scene so hard though, like the entirety of ff7 was never really building up to her death, or defeating sephiroth, no everything led up to the return of cloud, the actual cloud, him and tifa putting him back together and becoming who he should've always been, and the moment now should be laced with all the reveals and emotions, just as it was back then but even more so.
Back in the day the game glossed over Zack cus that's all they had in mind for him at the time, but now when they remember him they can do so much more with it, and the aerith scene, we can already imagine how it will actually play out, but what we didn't get that I think we should, is to see everyone else there with cloud as he buries her and their final words to her and just how emotional they actually were in those moments, and it isn't like "well he himself was being an unfeeling freak in those moments everyone musta been disgusted with him" but that must be only after the burial right? Since we didn't see any of it, and we know everything that he was saying and feeling did happen to a degree, just that he repressed so damn much of it so damn hard.
I think the weird part that is off, is the looks tifa gives cloud near the end, she looks as if to wonder how in the hell he is smiling and seemingly uncaring immediately after she was laid to rest, I don't imagine that's all in clouds head too, but it must be as if a switched was just flipped in his mind for him to think "yeah, she's still around, weird lake we're sitting at though, when did we get here again? Oh well, just glad I saved aerith!" Like he is so far gone...
Aerith is dead for now in the timeline we play I think .
My theory is that both the gang and Sephy are trying to create 2 new timelies 1 in which Sephy wins and 1 in which he loses forever and Aerith is alive. Protecting Aerith is something we hear multiple times like from Red and Marlene and also the fact Zack is so important could mean he's gonna come back and see her again. To me looks like something too big and important to ignore, like a central theme of the remake's new story (fans will now be able to save Aerith and have a good happy ending after 20+ years).
It looks like when Cloud parries Sephy's attack there is a new reality created (because their wills and Whispers are at the moment equally as powerful, we see many struggles with white whispers against black ones) where she is alive but only Cloud and Red can see her/interact with her and Cloud doesn't remember/realize she's dead in his own current timeline which is the one we play in so the one where she is alive is the one we want to get as the only possible in existence at the very end of the journey.
The rest of the gang knows that she's dead but they have to deal with Cloud's deranging mental health from the mako poisoning and Sephy's influence so they don't tell him so he doesn't completely lose it and also because if he realizes like in the original game then the events would play out the same with Aerith's dead and Sephy still going around the multiverse.
Also in one scene when Cloud is still unconscious after the fall in the temple, we see Aerith talking to the others but we dont' hear her voice and I suspect that's the moment she told them she was gonna die but to not tell Cloud or the new timeline would not happen and while they would not live this new timeline now, it would merge in the end with the reunion.
I expect in the third game the gang will have to put up with Cloud's state and there may be some attrition while they continue on the quest to stop Sephy and while Aerith provides guidance from the lifestream.
Barret told Cloud a not so convincing "Ok we trust you" when Cloud said he instinctively knew where Sephy was so he's worried Cloud cloud go crazy or become Sephy's puppet 100% and Tifa was speechless because Aerith's unavoidable death was a gut punch of course and also because seeing Cloud in this state where he suffers and he's losing his mind hurts but she has to endure it so that the gang can achieve their goal.
Lemme know if I'm wrong or missing something. I love this game so much and also to make theories about the story.
I never played the og FF7 and the only thing I knew before playing Remake and Rebirth is that Aerith dies because I didn't want any other spoilers and to experience the story myself the first time with Remake. I'm going to play og FF7 soon because now I want to know the story and be able to compare the games.
Thank you so much for reading all of this :)
I also have a cool evil Cloud theory where he kill Aerith because of Sephy's mind control but I think it doesn't work maybe because of some details that can dismiss it.
I assumed Cloud was repeating the lines from the OG scene.
Yeah, that was no mystery since Sephiroth's response at that moment are the same from OG too!
What is fact and what is fiction, indeed
The fact that I tear up thinking about this … is kind of bonkers.
I'm just worried about the bad sales. If it affecta part 3 quality or even it's cancelation.
Third part wont be canceled. They already said what they are planning for part 3 in a fresh interview. They are going even to rebuild the overworld in a way that the highwind will be able to fly around everywhere. But yea the sales are sad considering how goid Rebirth was
Me too. I really don't think the PS5 exclusivity helped. Hopefully the deal there was so profitable, it mitigated some of the sales downsides.
@@Silverfish-qv8igi dont think the multiverse helped.yall kept talking about exclusivity,yet stellar blade pre-sales are better than ff7 a game with 30 year old fan base.stop coping.no one asked for this mess and the sales are showing it.nothing to do with ps5 only.tell me how it sells worse than 16?you guys have no excuses but refuse to see the truth
What are "bad sales"?
Even if sales weren’t that good, FF7 is Square Enix biggest most popular IP. They will deliver another AAA game just for the sake of the FF brand. But yes, they might cut the budget some….
you should make a video explaining what the point of Zack even coming back to life was and rebirth because once I finished the game, I was just like “so why was Zack even here again…?” His story wasn’t really that important besides Marlene basically being an ancient and him somehow joining worlds with cloud, but I want more like an explanation on that