Hope you liked the official FIRST video of Karn Ultra! It's not going to be all Final Fantasy but reactions, news and theories about ALL the franchises I love. Strap in, gamers, and thank you so much for supporting this new venture!
Hear me out, but I have a massive theory about the "dimensions". I think it isn't real because, if the rifts were to exist, why does Cloud seem to be the only one who can see them? That's because it may not be real. Keep in mind, at this point in the OG FF7, that Cloud in Nibelheim was beginning to have a breaking of his identity that he constructed as a way of coping with the trauma he experienced. If you want to look at a little more evidence, remember Marlene's conversation with Zach where she says if he can't get Cloud better, then he won't be able to save Aerith? I originally thought she was referring to Cloud in the wheelchair, but what she is, in my opinion, referring to is Cloud's broken mind and his issues with his identity and memory, which are the vessel for Cloud to be controlled by Sephiroth. What also seems to back it up is that Cloud seems to be in denial about Aerith's death to some extent and how Sephiroth's masomune at first appeared bloodless, but it she it dripping with blood. Think about it: if Cloud blocked the masomune, then how could it have the blood dripping from the blade? This is, in my opinion, Cloud's mind fighting against the reality of failing to stop Sephiroth from killing Aerith in front of his eyes. What do you think?
The concept that they are using is the same as FFX, is not the multiverse is a dream. I would say that the "worlds" that we are actually seeing, playing are inside the lifestring and are made of the people dream, experience, memories, etc. These memories can have a "phisical" representation the same as FFX with Tidus That why red said that the materia is made by memories of the people in the costa del Sol. So you can see that the concept that they are using are actually more spiritual and related to the death and memorys. That also would explain why they didn't just resurrect Zack from nowhere, since he is currently living in the lifestring. Guess the rest can be deductible from these fact, even we could say that we are actually playing in a dream that are in the lifestring since these is an remake. That could be very insteresing, the devs knowing that this is a remake not the OG, that also will justify the whisper and their role to make the "memory as much as possible as the OG. Guess that the from OG Aeris is the last one who appear to help cloud to defeat Sephiroth
While I think her “staying behind” in the forgotten capital to pray is meant to explain away why she won’t be with the party from clouds perspective, how wild would it be if they use some of the cut dialogue as both a show of cloud’s broken psyche in part 3 and a further deep cut nod to the OG?
I think you are absolutely on the money with this being a reference. Although, I think in addition to that, they are using the fanbases' desire to save Aerith as a way to explore denial through Cloud's damaged psyche.
I agree. I also think they're purposefully muddying the waters on how much the Jenova Cells are affecting Cloud and how much is a result of the multiverse being created and Cloud's increased interactions with it are giving him more insight then the rest of the party. I dont think it's a coincidence that the end scene starts with Cloud clearly being controlled by Sephiroth when he hides the Black Materia, especially given how often it is left vague over what is causing the visions. That is made to make you wonder if the whole scene is all Sephiroth influence or a result of Cloud creating a new branch in the timeline when he blocked Masamune.
The thing is in one of the Ultimatia translated pages, one of the devs mentioned that, instead of the story being told by an unreliable narrator, they're going with the idea of an unreliable world. So, they seem to want to emphasize that there is no one conclusion that can be drawn based on the visual facts being presented before us.
@@velocityraptor7188 Unfortunately, I'm not sure where I found the original video. Maybe it was in the comment section of a video. However, Soldier_1stClass has gone over some of the posted, translated Ultimania pages and I think it can be inferred by that information how the devs complicated the story trying to make it look like an unreliable world with no straightforward answer. Either that or just look up other videos of translated Ultimania pages. More users are bound to have done their own videos by now.
My amateur analysis is simply that Aerith will live on, in the life stream. And the reason that Cloud can see her, and Red feel her, is because they both were more or less "treated" with Mako. So that makes them see things others can not.
Absolutely! Exactly as you pointed out: this feels like it’s tying into how Cloud could hear/see her and Zack’s ghosts in AC. But I didn’t know the Aerith ghost glitch. That’s wild!
Well, in that last scene with Cloud she tells him 'I will send up smoke!' if something happens. When part 3 come out i'll be looking out for smoke everywhere hahahaha! In my opinion, Aerith continues to show up for cloud because he ordered her to: 'Aerith, wake up'.
@@kjh4496 and if they changed nothing, you'd say it was boring. Thankfully, the writers and directors have been with this story and these characters for 25 years, and they evolved it tastefully whether you enjoyed it or not. Your loss.
I think the story they've developed simultaneously maintains the legacy of the original (Aerith dying is a part of destined events) while also creating new intrigue and anxiety for the player (is Aerith alive? Is she fully dead? Why is Red able to sense her?). In a broader sense, Rebirth feels like a continuation of the OG as Rebirth's story is reliant on the events of the original being carried out. Essentially, technology has advanced so much that Square Enix can use storytelling techniques that properly showcase how unreliable of a narrator Cloud is. His delusions, visions and moments being controlled are very clear and we can see the intent behind each of his words and actions.
Regarding Aerith as a playable character, I wonder if they'll try to include her in some way. Sure, we'll be gaining Cid & Vincent as party members so we still come out with a net gain of +1. But it would suck to lose Aerith as a playable character when we've had 2 games with her. BUT if Square wanted to still include her combat, it would be cool if she was purely a support character (from behind the scenes) that could set wards on the field. Could be charged through something similar to the synergy system. As Cloud is the only one that can interact with her, it would somehow be tied to his character. Obviously we didn't have her after disc 1 in the original, but idc I don't wanna lose her!
Her playstyle/the wards have been extremely popular since Remake, it would be a shame to get rid of it entirely in Part 3. I'd love if they have a story-based reason to bring her back in a virtual setting so we can enjoy her playstyle just like they did with Zack.
@@ILovePizza620 exactly! They can’t take her away. Her combat mechanics improved from ff7 rebirth and she’s a joy to play with. To scrap that in the final game would be hurtful
1. When they were writing the original story they were going to do a resurrection path to get her back but they cut that (I don't think much development in game when towards that) because her death was more impactful if she couldn't come back. I believe some of what you're saying is because of unremoved content. I mean during the final battle when the party is standing on the floating stones before the last fight she has her own stone :) which is either empty or if you use a cheats - she stands on.
I have never played Final Fantasy 7 before in my life, but now that I see this video (and learn more about the developer's intentions), I think I might have to. Thanks for the video, Karn. And congrats on making this channel to branch out from Digimon.
Thank you! So many modern reviewers don’t seem to make the connection that remake and rebirth are telling a story that takes into account the fandom from the og ff7. To me the whispers represent the fans that want the cannon to stay the same and all the references to changing events are the consequences of a player trying to make different choices on a second play through. The game feels very meta to me, in a way I dont really think we’ve explored as an audience.
Lifeclinger is just a localisted version of Jenova Life. Same with Jenova Dreamweaver in Remake. She's named Jenova Quickening in Japanese. Also, Advent Children claims that Cloud never accepted Aerith's death, thus him dealing with it in that movie. I think they just pulled that plot point from AC into Remake trilogy.
Back in the late 90s I also remember there being rumors that in the Japanese version you could go reclaim the white materia with the submarine in a location near where you find the key to the city of the ancients. You could use the white materia to revive Aerith. I am pretty sure I had multiple friends from different friend groups that didn't cross over at all mention this So I think this would just be an early internet rumor. The end of Rebirth had me thinking about that and I hadn't thought of it much if at all since the 90s.
All i know is the ATB report guy said "When we asked Nomura about Arieths strange behavior in the forgotten capitol when Cloud is the only one can see her, and the jenova/ifestream theme mix version of the lifestream theme. He only said "I hope you like sinister turns"" Now they give out Bogu info despite ATB report being run by square but i didnt notice unti lthey said how weird Arieth was in that scene and the music is unsettling her facial gestures are off two.
Alas it can't be! Reunion was my big pick for the third game however Nomura wanted to use Reunion for Rebirth but wasn't able to because they used it for the Crisis Core remaster, which seems very silly but there we are!
If I recall, Aerith wasn’t planned to die in the earliest drafts of FFVII. The leftover bits where she has dialogue are actually from those earlier parts of development where she survived the whole game. (My Rebirtb theory is she is more of Sephiroth and Jenova messing with Cloud and she’s dead.)
That's not quite correct. Aerith was not orginally going to die but eventually was planned to die at the scripting stage, long before programming scenes like that would have happened
I too heard before of what @bolladragon is saying. And I don't know how Square developped their games in the 90s (and still don't know how they do today), but I do work in video game making, and narration changes often happen at various stage of production. Everything is made pretty much at the same time, give or take on somethings. Like yes, usually narration is done before art is, but it doesn't stop before the other diciplines starts. We might never know when they actually made the decision, but from my experience it is likely that it might have changed after some cutscenes or event were already made. Big changes and cuts like that are relativly usual to some extend. But they might also have just changed some scene orders as you said or something! Both are possible and the only way we'd know is if the team themselves confirms it :) Having not played the original and looking into is as much as I can to understand as much as I can the choices des made with the remakes, your video was really interesting!
Yes exactly what i thought. That's the aerith cloud was seeing in ac. We just thought cloud is "reminiscing" her and zack in ac but now we knew he's really seeing her. My guess is that she will linger till the end of trilogt (the ending scene in ff7 shows aerith again) and will make cloud depressed hence the emo cloud in ac. To be fair, seeing a ghost will really drive you mad. I think there is something about their promise at the end of rebirth, where aerith said to cloud to take care of sephiroth and she'll take care of the planet. We know sephiroth isn't truly dead so cloud wasn't able to fulfill his promise.
Ya Im liking the ending more and more now remembering all this stuff. LOL I remember doing all this back in the day and showing my friend the ghost who was like NO WAI ! Then we did all the Debug room stuff with a game shark and saw all the dialogue and that's why we thought the rumors of her living back then where true.
I kinda think it's insane when people say that Remake is meant to do what they couldn't back then. And now I actually believe it. If Cloud was meant to have serious brain issues and see Aerith's ghost what if that was an actual thread they explored but ultimately cut because it would be too confusing. And now they're like, ok we'll throw timelines and such at you and make it confusing on purpose, because that's what it would actually be like to go insane and we'll finish the cut content that we left parts of in(because it had already been implemented before changing their minds(or worse to tap into gamers' actual psyches and make people wonder if Aerith could be brought back)). Very interesting connection.
Last time I played FF7, the version playable on PS4 (PC version I'm told) I wandered into the church before Aerith died. I hadn't left Midgard yet. She appeared in the church and vanished. Seems to just be a glitch.
Like I and many other fans who took the time to fully understand and interpret the compilation have said, everything in remake/rebirth has been taken from the original game and compilation. There’s nothing new here, including the multiple realities/worlds as manifestations of the livestream. Nice video!
I think Cloud saved Aerith, and didn't save Aerith. I think he is seeing Aerith's conscience from the Terrier world as she is still in a coma like Cloud. Zack is in the church back in the Terrier world, and I think he will go back to Elmyra's and Aerith will wake up thus reuniting her with her first love. While she did die in the Beagle world, she didn't in the Terrier world. Sephiroth will come looking for her once she wakes as Marlene predicts, but Zack will be ready to defend her and he may obtain some new power to counter Sephiorth's power disallowing him from sending him away into the black lifestream. However the big mystery is who else from the compilation will appear in part 3? When we learn some more about that, it will give us a hint of what may be to come. The Ghost of Aeris in the OG is hard to figure what Nomura meant then... I think someone should ask him directly once part 3 comes out and perhaps then he will give a definitive answer and solve the 30 year old riddle which so many have extensively searched for.
Cloud is doing the same thing in Rebirth that he’s doing in Advent Children. He communicates with Aerith in the Lifestream. Their strong bond combined with his Mako treatment gives him te sensitivity to do so. Only difference is that in Rebirth he doesn’t accept that she’s already dead whereas in AC he has come to terms with that fact and feels guilty about it. That’s what part 3 of the Relake will be about: him accepting her death. This will be when he and Tifa are in the Lifestream and we will see him carry Aerith into the lake to say goodbye. Unlike in the OG where him realising he was the Shinra grunt fixes his personality, this time it will be the acceptance of Aerith’s death that will fix him.
I don't know how SE does it if they want Aerith or Zack come back alive. But one thing I'm almost sure 100% is that lifestream in gaia is not only made of memories, but also dreams, manifestation, imagination, desires. We've been shown Lifestream as memories in Tifa's falling into mako reactor, Lifestream as dreams or manifestation in Aerith's dream date and Barret's dream, the thing is manifestation/imagination in lifestream can really affect the people related to it, I assume Zack is pulled up by Aerith's manifestation of him (i can say this because of Remake's ending, Aerith's looking up to the sky scene after Zack's death, and her yellow lily flowers blossoms on the top of Zack's death spot) and now it's Aerith. just like how Sephiroth is still "alive", he's manifested in all those Jenova's dolls and Cloud... So im still not sure to say SE will actually bring anyone back truly alive. However, there's a possibility of different future, but not the same with chars we've always been playing with
There was this interesting theory that Sephiroth is going to merge all of the dream worlds with the real world and that’s how Aerith and Zack will come back.
Honestly, I saw this all coming as far back as Remake's release cycle, but the fact that it all played out almost EXACTLY as I had predicted felt rather disappointing. Like my own expectations spoiled it for me, and keep in mind that I was, with considerable success, taking great pains to avoid spoilers.
I think aerith moved from cloud timeline to zack timeline after her death, this is related to the appearance of zack and aerith at the end of ff7 advent children movie.
I think Aerith is gonna turn out to be fully alive, they are just gonna blow the fan theory heads out of the water and be like, everyone was really sad because we were seeing how people felt in the other timeline before cloud stopped it but nope, Aerith really did go do some praying and now she is back and everyone is like "Yo, she's back, great glad she did all that praying." I think they will leave it up in the air for like half the game then bam, nope yup, Cloud wasn't imagining things except how hard everything would have hit everyone if he had failed to stop it. Then things can get more weird and fucky.
@7:55 SE said after hearing the theory that squall dies and if they make a remake that they could actually implement that Idea in of squall being in purgatory
Genius, theres a cheat in original ffvii PC where aerith still joins the party after she died and she has dialogues but no interaction with the rest of the party
Aerith is my favorite female character in the franchise and beyond, but she is totally dead. I think even ultimania says "cloud vision of aerith is a denyal status" or something similar. You will not see her alive, maybe a ghost force or something. People need to accept this true, this discussion is killing the ending lol. The easy answer, the simple answer is the true answer, i believe.
To be fair, the creators seem to be intentionally giving out wrong Info from time to time. Nomura and Nojima seem to contradict each other in certain Interviews, and I believe that the denial state of Cloud stated in the Ultimania is only a part of what is actually going on. Sort of like a red herring. They are cooking with part 3, and it is definitely going to be different from the original. They set up way too much for it to just end up being the original Story. Especially with everything that happened in Remake. We will definitely see Aerith again this time around.
I don't think it's multiverse, but jumping from timelines and chars "dreaming" in lifestream are what happens, Rainbow doesn't commonly represent "multiverse", it is "dream" So just like the Aerith dream date, Coud is STILL dreaming rn, he hasn't woke up. As for how Red seems like sense Aerith is because of the lifestream nature, it is said multiple times that lifestream contains memories AND manifestations, Aerith Red and Cloud see is Cloud's manifestation of Aerith. Lifestream is broken, it only makes sense it creates glitches on gaia.
The rainbow is present in the Mogstools. One would think it’s a dream but everyone in the party can see the Mogs, although Cloud is the only one who goes in.
This is how i know people be reading too much into things. In the PS4 version of FF7, ypu can see her "ghost" even before you first leave Midgard. In fact you see her ghost every time you enter the church.
Not true, the ghost event is a PROPER thing as I very much discussed. It is an intended feature. If there's a glitch in the PS4 version that's not intended and is specific to that build.
Say what you will, but I feel like this doesn't qualify as a cliffhanger as far as endings go. Yes, it leaves questions to be answered, but it still resolves a lot for us. A cliffhanger would be like "Okay Cait Sith is running into the temple for some reason and Cid is watching him go, what's going to happen next? Will Cloud and his friends get out alive? Why is Cloud acting so strange?(okay this is a bad example because I don't think they fully explained this yet despite everything going on, point is they could milk the number of questions we'd have a lot more if they paused a scene) Find out next time in game number 3'. A cliffhanger to me is the production crew pausing the story in the middle of a scene. I'd argue that these scenes(most of them at least) played out to the end, there isn't anything else to deliver since the scenes arrived at a conclusion. Some exceptions might be flashbacks to previous games like showing Sephiroth and Cloud performing differently, enough to match the blood from Aerith's lethal wound. Such scenes were denied detail(and might continue to deny us details, we won't know until part 3 comes out) rather than denied a conclusion. For the ending to be a cliffhanger, we would have to have a scene paused on us for an ending, and I don't see that. The way I see it, and players that didn't play the OG might not realize this yet but they also might, is that Jenova has been talking to Cloud all through these first 2 games. She's using Sephiroth's image because she knows Cloud remembers him, they even traveled and worked together a little bit later on in Sephiroth's career, even though the working status the two had was not similar. So that's why Cloud is acting weird, she's getting to him with her tricks. So because I already know that, I feel like that question at least is not part of a cliffhanger, I already know the answer, but I can see other people might interpret the situation a bit differently, perhaps they also feel similarly about other things. Either way, I didn't see a paused scene at the end, sure I am curious where they are going, but it's a very easy transition to the next game from here that can simply be explained away as Cid wanted to take them to his place for some reason(a possibility but not guaranteed as an introduction to game 3).
I'm 90% sure we're the unreliable narrator this time around and we're getting a nice PoV of what Cloud actually went through during the events of OG 7. The thing that makes it worse is that things are changing as well due to the multiple timelines which makes it so that WE the audience don't know what's going on 100%. I'm also 90% sure that part 3 will follow the last leg of the game up until the very end where we will have a different ending and the FF7 universe (pending sales) will be made.
No the ending of 7rebirth is to show you how messed up clouds memory is, to show him disassociating with reality. After everyone is on the plane cloud and Aerith replay chapter 9 of 7remake literally word for word. Cloud wishes and wants to believe so much that this is reality that she is going away... but when Tifa helps put cloud together, i believe it will be more shocking and much darker and more tragic... Clouds drive was always to protect Aerith and Jenova manipulated him beautifuly into believing he saved her, when in reality it was him being controlled by sephiroth/jenova actually killed Aerith. Cloud, the real cloud locked deep within himself that tifa helps him find had nothing ro do with it and was doing what we all saw... just like its revealed that Cloud is really the hero and saved tifa once, we will also be shown the disntinction between Jenova manipulating and controlling him vs him truly wishing to kill Aerith... thats why Cloud asks "Can sins be forgiven?" And Aerith saying "I never blamed you, you came, even when you were breaking." Cloud always wanted to be the hero, thats why him and Zack bonded, its why they have such kinship... its their living legacy... Cloud failed to save her... (Plot twist if u are still her stick with) Cloud is dying and 7 seconds to the end is how long before the life stream destroys Cloud as he still has Jenova Cells. Sephiroth at the edge of the creation is The Hero Sephiroth. Jenova is trying to break clouds spirit to wear him into the lifestream like a shroud. Aerith knows the lifestreams defense and is sending aid. Each game ends in remake/rebirth at the edge of creation... I think Cloud will be so broken emotionally learning Aerith died by his hands that this may be the divergence and we go to the edge of creation for part 3. Where Jenova takes over cloud and enters the lifestream turning into Cloud Life Devourer. Everyone can fight to save Cloud and bring cloud back with memories. Sephiroth and Kadaj could theoretically show up and help end "mother". Just saying endless possibility... then when Jenova is killed Cloud enters the promised land... where everyone is waiting because time doesnt exist within the promised land and all life returns to it...
thanks to AC this isn't really even a theory. it's clear that up to this point atleast, aerith doesn't let herself or zack, disolve into the lifestream. but, i kinda opose the theory that a multiverse/multiworld/pre emtive memory thing, wasn't teased all along. how does OG FF7 end? with aerith looking up. then we fast forward 500 years and nanaki has 2 children. and we know he has a mother from rebirth. so there have to be more labratdogs out there, but we never seen one. and we've been around the world.aerith looking up, and the multiple endings we have trough the compilation, always experienced their own lil diffrences, but OG ends with aerith looing up, same as it starts, and same as remake starts. he multi world theory could also hint at many games started, but never finished, cuse those worlds were doomed to end. and many ppl played trough it multiple times, in multiple ways. maybe that's how they want to condone that this time, it's more on rails. as in, freedom was easier to achieve back then, now it has to be more on rails for everyone to have a more definitive place in the games story. cause we rarely splitt off, when in the old game, you needed to call on your friends if you wanted to change the party. the splitt offs happening now, happen definitvly, all the other ones are jut not active during the battle sequences.
graphics were great voice acting and music great. story missed the mark, combat , not what i enjoy at all would have preferred naoki yoshida as director and the more turn based atb system myself.
Listen even in the original she's always there just only in spirt its fitting they choice this she's a part of the life stream. The glitches was because of cut content in development they planned on her living at one point
@@KarnUltra it has marketing and story implications. They can definitely sell the trilogy as the Final Fantasy 7 Remastered trilogy. And ties with Cloud having to Remaster is own will and self
@@KarnUltra remake did the same thing. When we all heard remake, the thoughts were just ff7 OG with updated graphics. Now I know it’s what Sephiroth wants to do with the countless worlds
A Remaster is seen as inferior to a Remake though. A gloss of paint versus a total overhaul. It's not a great term to use for your third and final part of a remake trilogy. Definitely viable but certainly not that exciting imo
All of Aerith's unused dialog in FF7 OG is are leftovers from when the game was going to have the team of only Cloud, Aerith, and Barrett; and Aerith was going to live. Tifa was made as a last-minute addition to FF7 before the JP release in order to give Cloud more backstory (that's also why her and Cloud can never work because she is his past. A reminder of everything that he went through while in shinra and like Jenova and Sephiroth she only tells Cloud the truth when its convenient for her and gets mad whenever he questions her when he subconsciously knows she's lying.) However, some people don't know that. Then Zack was added in the international releases, also known as the JP delux upgrade edition. Honestly Aerith death wasn't even pre planned they just decided scrap the original story of her living (which they were still going to use) and added her ☠️ instead at the last second before releasing disk 2 after adding Yuffi and the others in. Then they just removed her triggers for the later parts of the game. It could be that the ghost Aerith in the church turning off from that one dialog choice is because that specific dialog choice was something they added after deciding to ☠️ her meanwhile the other choices are from before that time in development which is why she still shows up. Actually from what I remember during quarantine someone actually found a way to interact with Aerith before she despawns, and she will have a dialog with Cloud and then join the team again and be usable in battle once more and travel with you. However, no one will acknowledge her, and her unused dialog triggers won't activate but she will stand in her correct location in each scene. This further proves that the Aerith in the church after the Jenova boss is also a leftover from the time in development before they decided to ☠️ her. This means that the reason she dissappears is because the devs put an extra trigger to make her despawn before the player gets in range of her dialog box, thus giving the illusion of her being a ghost or Cloud reminiscing. When in reality it's actually her wating in the church and Cloud coming to talk with her and tell her he's okay so they can all continue their journey.
Some of this is true but I think a lot of this is misremembered or straight up not true. Zack is in every version of FF7, he just gets ONE additional scene in the International version. I cannot find a single source stating Tifa was added super late in development, just that she was created after the core trio but still likely before full development began. Aerith's death was decided at the scripting stage, WAY before main development would begin. Aerith's death was literally a core part of development, not something changed last minute. "During the writing of the script, the development team were discussing the possibility of killing off nearly the entire cast of player characters, with only three surviving, an idea suggested by Yoshinori Kitase. The team eventually decided against the idea, as Tetsuya Nomura argued that it would dilute the meaning of Aerith's death. Eventually, they decided that only Aerith should die. Her death scene was written by Kazushige Nojima." To quote Kitase "So we wanted to depict that there is weight to life, and just put weight on the loss as well to life, and that’s where we all started with Final Fantasy VII. That was our core concept.”"
@KarnUltra No, I'm right. The JP version of FF7 is different from the international release and the upgrade offered to JP after the international releases to get all the international stuff. In the original, everyone of Zack's scenes has a copy of Cloud's model in Zack's spot with heavy shadows to obscure that fact. The additional Zack scene was added in the international and JP upgrade versions because they finally gave him a model. Also, Nomura is the one who said the thing about Tifa in either FF7 Dismantled or one of the Ultimanias to quote word for word what he says - "After I'd done the hero and heroine, I carried on drawing by thinking what kind of characters would be interesting to have. The first characters I drew were Cloud and Aerith. Next was Barrett." and "Actually, we had only Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist." and "Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barrett, and Aerith." - Tetsuya Nomura (he does say the thing about Tifa being a last-minute thing, but I just haven't found an image of that quote again yet, and I don't want to quote it incorrectly. If I find it, i will add it.) If I remember correctly, the thing about not wanting her to die originally is also from one of the Ultimanias and to my memory Nojima said that one. I know I've seen images of it around and remember reading it. So I know that I know what I'm talking about. I did say that some people don't know about this stuff, but I've seen many myself included who do know about it.
@@Supersonicblue1027 The vast majority of this is heavily incorrect... however, if it were it is still rendered completely and utterly pointless because were it true or not; it is not the story/game that was presented. We can sift through development of any large JRPG or really any game, book, movie or story telling medium at its drawing board and make baseless claim's. In ASOIAF/Game of Thrones, Tyrion and Jon were going to have a love triangle with Arya if you read the original plan for the manuscript. You're basically saying therefore, Tyrion and Jon do not work with whatever partners they have, have had or will have in the series because Arya represents their real interests. Which is utterly and completely baseless, also given the direction that particular story took would be considered borderline insane. I assume you're an Aerith shipper given your desire to erase Tifa from the narrative as a prospective love interest, when it's quite clear that she is the primary or potentially secondary love interest (once he becomes Cloud again). Also, you are incorrect Tifa was not created last just after Barrett and Aerith... which this guy literally just told you and then you completely agreed with him with the quote you gave in response to try and prove your point. Aerith's initial interest in Cloud stems from her interest in his similarities/contrasts to Zack, once Aerith realises the issue with Cloud she drops her interest (which is only made more apparent in Remake) and leaves Cloud to Tifa since they are in fact best friends and I don't recall Aerith being a heartless bitch. Aerith never actually meets Cloud Strife, but I digress, the desire to bend the narrative based on original plans of a story is fruitless. It's like me saying well Tifa and Cloud are clearly meant to be together because there was meant to be an additional scene, whereby they leave the Chocobo stable on the Highwind together after the scene beneath the Highwind... where they sleep together, but had to remove it as blatantly adding in that they were sleeping together would have made them have to give the OG a mature rating, whereas the game just heavily hints at it with HA towards Tifa. Moving away from shipping wars, Nomura originally wanted to have everyone in the party but the three you take to Midgar die... That didn't happen, you cannot bend the presented story based on what may have originally been intended, especially at the stages of development.
@wildvalentine Okay slow down, man. One question: How did we get to the conclusion that I want to "erase tifa" from the game? You know that's not what this is about. This was about me proving that I know what I'm talking about and that the unused Aerith scenes are from before Tifa's existence, and were still going to be used after Tifa's creation, until the team made the decision to ☠️ Aerith; and that the "church ghost" is actually just a apart of the original version of FF7 story where Aerith was going to live just like those unused versions of the extra cutscences with Aerith. However, it was repurposed and given an extra trigger to despawn her if the player approached her, so the player couldn't get close enough to interact with her. Yeah, I like Clerith, but that's because it's the canonical romance. Everything in FF7 always refers to Aerith as Cloud's most cherished thing and refers to him as Aerith's most cherished thing as well. Yeah, they'll say friend, but lovers are also friends and more. English version of FF7 loves to ship Tifa or construde the meanings sometimes for fan service but in JP Tifa is always "childhood friends" and Nomura the guy who made Tifa literally has said in interviews in official books related to AC that Cloud and Tifa would never work even if Cloud never met Aerith. However, none of that has to do with our current conversation, so stop changing the subject and self projecting that your ship is more important than the points I made. As only someone who clearly believes their ship is more important than lore or thing the team has said. Which I assume based on your behavior you are a Cloti. Which is fine but irrelevant to the current topic, and you know that which is why you left three periods after "incorrect..." Look the point is I told the truth, and you just didn't know about it, but now you do and if you want to you can now go on a little reasearch hunt armed with what I've told you so can educate yourself on the matter that is all. Shipping had nothing to do with this, nor was it the topic of the video. Why does everyone think that is the center of everything? Can we please not be toxic? Thank you.
@@Supersonicblue1027 I'm not being toxic I find the very notion of 'Clerith and Cloti' toxic. The insinuation that Cloud and Aerith are canonical goes to show you have little understanding or regard for the story presented. I am not 'Cloti' I find the very idea of being labelled that abhorrent. Aerith doesn't meet Cloud Strife; other than a brief moment in Advent Children in which who did she walk away with into the Lifestream with again? Oh yeah Zack, the original reason for her interest in Cloud due to his emulation of Zack, him being similar because he is what she thinks is a 1st Class SOLDIER, with some contrasting cool guy persona which is based off what he thought Tifa would desire. She becomes far more interested in discovering the 'real' Cloud and worries for his mental state. Had Tifa not met Cloud and the Jenova Cells not formulated mimicry based on Tifa being the only link that pulls him into some semblance of reality, but creates a persona solely based on the way he wanted Tifa to view him. Were the tables reversed I would be fine with that because the characters stand alone as is. However, the story clearly demonstrates that Cloud and Tifa love one another. That is not to say that the version of Cloud that meets Aerith does not have feelings for her, even feelings of love towards her because of how Jenova Cells work. You told a warped version of the truth and development of the game, Zack was in all versions. What you may be referring to is the fact that he wasn't her boyfriend in the original Japanese but instead referred to as 'the first guy I liked'. You also said Tifa wasn't added until 'last' not after Aerith, Barrett and Cloud 'last' and rushed in... although that is irrelevant regardless, because it isn't the story so let's put that on hold. Please tell me how and in what way Cloud and Aerith are canonical. I've played the original more times than I could count, Remake many times over and Rebirth twice... Rebirth only serves to further demonstrate how Cloud and Tifa are the intended couple, I am not going to say canonical because while I believe the games HEAVILY insinuate this I am not going to lie about what has and hasn't been confirmed as canonical. I am utterly open to learning as to why Cloud and Aerith are canon, but when all evidence and now new evidence insinuates the complete contrary I struggle to see how you will do this. I hate that this is still a thing people do and I hate that I'm doing it now. Also, the game wouldn't have even began programming in dialogue before Tifa's creation so saying that those lines exist from when Tifa wasn't in it is categorically untrue.
You missed something, Aeris in church was added in later relaeses of FF7 like Gratest Hits or Platinium. IT was not there in any original game - black label. There was a glitch in them that make you could see her but that was a glitch. You can even see it now, she will be there for a split second then she will appear near flowers. That was added later as a easter egg. So your whole theory falls flat, sorry.
This is my first time even hearing about this, and If they can make a nod to a small vocal minority, they must be hearing the extremely loud majority saying how much they hate the ending
It isn't. Because they used it for Crisis Core Reunion and Nomura said specifically because of that they couldn't use it. He originally wanted Rebirth to be called Reunion.
I think this one is a stretch honestly. It's quite clear that the devs are trying their best to let fans have their cake and eat it, desperate to please them with all manner of fan services and moves like this. The things that made the original game so good be damned.
She’s going to be alive but not as homage to anything. Just in woke 2024 you can’t make the games like you used to. They didn’t even show her die properly.
Hope you liked the official FIRST video of Karn Ultra! It's not going to be all Final Fantasy but reactions, news and theories about ALL the franchises I love. Strap in, gamers, and thank you so much for supporting this new venture!
Hear me out, but I have a massive theory about the "dimensions". I think it isn't real because, if the rifts were to exist, why does Cloud seem to be the only one who can see them? That's because it may not be real. Keep in mind, at this point in the OG FF7, that Cloud in Nibelheim was beginning to have a breaking of his identity that he constructed as a way of coping with the trauma he experienced. If you want to look at a little more evidence, remember Marlene's conversation with Zach where she says if he can't get Cloud better, then he won't be able to save Aerith? I originally thought she was referring to Cloud in the wheelchair, but what she is, in my opinion, referring to is Cloud's broken mind and his issues with his identity and memory, which are the vessel for Cloud to be controlled by Sephiroth. What also seems to back it up is that Cloud seems to be in denial about Aerith's death to some extent and how Sephiroth's masomune at first appeared bloodless, but it she it dripping with blood. Think about it: if Cloud blocked the masomune, then how could it have the blood dripping from the blade? This is, in my opinion, Cloud's mind fighting against the reality of failing to stop Sephiroth from killing Aerith in front of his eyes. What do you think?
The concept that they are using is the same as FFX, is not the multiverse is a dream. I would say that the "worlds" that we are actually seeing, playing are inside the lifestring and are made of the people dream, experience, memories, etc. These memories can have a "phisical" representation the same as FFX with Tidus That why red said that the materia is made by memories of the people in the costa del Sol. So you can see that the concept that they are using are actually more spiritual and related to the death and memorys.
That also would explain why they didn't just resurrect Zack from nowhere, since he is currently living in the lifestring.
Guess the rest can be deductible from these fact, even we could say that we are actually playing in a dream that are in the lifestring since these is an remake. That could be very insteresing, the devs knowing that this is a remake not the OG, that also will justify the whisper and their role to make the "memory as much as possible as the OG.
Guess that the from OG Aeris is the last one who appear to help cloud to defeat Sephiroth
Holy shit, the ghost glitch thing is completely a new one to me , and those cut scenes. Wow.
Oh wow, glad to show it to you!
While I think her “staying behind” in the forgotten capital to pray is meant to explain away why she won’t be with the party from clouds perspective, how wild would it be if they use some of the cut dialogue as both a show of cloud’s broken psyche in part 3 and a further deep cut nod to the OG?
I think you are absolutely on the money with this being a reference. Although, I think in addition to that, they are using the fanbases' desire to save Aerith as a way to explore denial through Cloud's damaged psyche.
I agree. I also think they're purposefully muddying the waters on how much the Jenova Cells are affecting Cloud and how much is a result of the multiverse being created and Cloud's increased interactions with it are giving him more insight then the rest of the party. I dont think it's a coincidence that the end scene starts with Cloud clearly being controlled by Sephiroth when he hides the Black Materia, especially given how often it is left vague over what is causing the visions. That is made to make you wonder if the whole scene is all Sephiroth influence or a result of Cloud creating a new branch in the timeline when he blocked Masamune.
The thing is in one of the Ultimatia translated pages, one of the devs mentioned that, instead of the story being told by an unreliable narrator, they're going with the idea of an unreliable world. So, they seem to want to emphasize that there is no one conclusion that can be drawn based on the visual facts being presented before us.
@@renegade637 Can you find a link for me? Which Ultimania, which page? 'Not so much unreliable narrator as unreliable world.'
@@velocityraptor7188 Unfortunately, I'm not sure where I found the original video. Maybe it was in the comment section of a video. However, Soldier_1stClass has gone over some of the posted, translated Ultimania pages and I think it can be inferred by that information how the devs complicated the story trying to make it look like an unreliable world with no straightforward answer. Either that or just look up other videos of translated Ultimania pages. More users are bound to have done their own videos by now.
My amateur analysis is simply that Aerith will live on, in the life stream. And the reason that Cloud can see her, and Red feel her, is because they both were more or less "treated" with Mako. So that makes them see things others can not.
Absolutely! Exactly as you pointed out: this feels like it’s tying into how Cloud could hear/see her and Zack’s ghosts in AC. But I didn’t know the Aerith ghost glitch. That’s wild!
Ayyy I'm glad you agree!
@@KarnUltrai experienced too
Now here is the real question: is it a glitch or a truly unique circumstance that you have to be able to create in order to get that extra detail?
Aerith best girl by far.
Not by far imo
@@pointless7 by far
@@elitealice ok stan
@@pointless7 unapologetically so lol
@@elitealice i can tell. she also your fav character in terms of gameplay?
A Certified Karn Ultra Banger!
Love this theory, love how you presented it, can't wait for more on this channel!
Thank you so much bud! I appreciate it!
Play ground rumors were always so great, so if the developers actually took inspiration from them for the remake that would be so great!
Right?!
Part 3 is gonna have more uncomfortable moments for the party as they see Cloud doing more unhinged stuff by talking to ghost Aerith. Great...
I mean Cloud being unhinged and talking to things that aren't there is also half of the OG game lol
Cloud’s mental state is more fucked than Lana Rhoades on a regular shift.
Well, in that last scene with Cloud she tells him 'I will send up smoke!' if something happens. When part 3 come out i'll be looking out for smoke everywhere hahahaha! In my opinion, Aerith continues to show up for cloud because he ordered her to: 'Aerith, wake up'.
What i like most about the remakes is that for how much is similar from the originals, there's still stuff to theory craft about.
Agreed! I CANNOT imagine these being your first experience with FF7 but as a lifelong fan of the compilation I'm living for the Remake trilogy.
@@KarnUltra I imagine for everyone else it's like playing a recent zelda game and finding out every old zelda game is cannon.
Translation: convoluting a plot for the sake of subversion. Trash writing.
@@kjh4496 Don't be that guy!
@@kjh4496 and if they changed nothing, you'd say it was boring. Thankfully, the writers and directors have been with this story and these characters for 25 years, and they evolved it tastefully whether you enjoyed it or not. Your loss.
I love how they fit her ghost in it like this and I hate that they managed to make me cry!!
I think the story they've developed simultaneously maintains the legacy of the original (Aerith dying is a part of destined events) while also creating new intrigue and anxiety for the player (is Aerith alive? Is she fully dead? Why is Red able to sense her?). In a broader sense, Rebirth feels like a continuation of the OG as Rebirth's story is reliant on the events of the original being carried out.
Essentially, technology has advanced so much that Square Enix can use storytelling techniques that properly showcase how unreliable of a narrator Cloud is. His delusions, visions and moments being controlled are very clear and we can see the intent behind each of his words and actions.
Regarding Aerith as a playable character, I wonder if they'll try to include her in some way. Sure, we'll be gaining Cid & Vincent as party members so we still come out with a net gain of +1. But it would suck to lose Aerith as a playable character when we've had 2 games with her.
BUT if Square wanted to still include her combat, it would be cool if she was purely a support character (from behind the scenes) that could set wards on the field. Could be charged through something similar to the synergy system. As Cloud is the only one that can interact with her, it would somehow be tied to his character.
Obviously we didn't have her after disc 1 in the original, but idc I don't wanna lose her!
Her playstyle/the wards have been extremely popular since Remake, it would be a shame to get rid of it entirely in Part 3. I'd love if they have a story-based reason to bring her back in a virtual setting so we can enjoy her playstyle just like they did with Zack.
Aerith carried me through the platinum in rebirth
@@ILovePizza620 exactly! They can’t take her away. Her combat mechanics improved from ff7 rebirth and she’s a joy to play with. To scrap that in the final game would be hurtful
Thats a super fun reference i never even thought about. The way you presented it was also well oriented. Great start 😊
Thank you so much 😀
1. When they were writing the original story they were going to do a resurrection path to get her back but they cut that (I don't think much development in game when towards that) because her death was more impactful if she couldn't come back.
I believe some of what you're saying is because of unremoved content.
I mean during the final battle when the party is standing on the floating stones before the last fight she has her own stone :) which is either empty or if you use a cheats - she stands on.
I have never played Final Fantasy 7 before in my life, but now that I see this video (and learn more about the developer's intentions), I think I might have to.
Thanks for the video, Karn. And congrats on making this channel to branch out from Digimon.
Ooh yay, glad to inspire you to check out FF7! It's one of my faves!
It’s a wild ride, and worth the price of entry.
Thank you! So many modern reviewers don’t seem to make the connection that remake and rebirth are telling a story that takes into account the fandom from the og ff7. To me the whispers represent the fans that want the cannon to stay the same and all the references to changing events are the consequences of a player trying to make different choices on a second play through. The game feels very meta to me, in a way I dont really think we’ve explored as an audience.
Lifeclinger is just a localisted version of Jenova Life. Same with Jenova Dreamweaver in Remake. She's named Jenova Quickening in Japanese. Also, Advent Children claims that Cloud never accepted Aerith's death, thus him dealing with it in that movie. I think they just pulled that plot point from AC into Remake trilogy.
Not what I expected your first vid to be but I loved it
Yay thanks bud!
First time here, solid video. Keep it up! Subscribed.
Awesome, thank you!
Back in the late 90s I also remember there being rumors that in the Japanese version you could go reclaim the white materia with the submarine in a location near where you find the key to the city of the ancients. You could use the white materia to revive Aerith. I am pretty sure I had multiple friends from different friend groups that didn't cross over at all mention this So I think this would just be an early internet rumor. The end of Rebirth had me thinking about that and I hadn't thought of it much if at all since the 90s.
This guy seems really cool and handsome
He reminds me a little of you
He seems cool
Agreed, I wish I were him.
walk in confidence King!
Ur right he does seem a lot like me 😂
7:34... Hit Detection, my God I haven't noticed this while watching the ending credits myself
Looking forward to seeing what new topics you'll be covering!
Thank you! Got some fun stuff in the pipeline!
All i know is the ATB report guy said "When we asked Nomura about Arieths strange behavior in the forgotten capitol when Cloud is the only one can see her, and the jenova/ifestream theme mix version of the lifestream theme. He only said "I hope you like sinister turns"" Now they give out Bogu info despite ATB report being run by square but i didnt notice unti lthey said how weird Arieth was in that scene and the music is unsettling her facial gestures are off two.
Just finished the game tn after 4 months lmao. Idk how anyone could say this not GOTY. This P3R and stellar blade so clear at the top
Great video!
Keen for the Kingdom Hearts discussions 😊
1 of the kids even questioned where the flower girl went.
I have been ready for this ever since you shared the Kojima video
Ayyy thank you bud!
Hopefully we can get some longer more indepth videos on this channel.
That's the plan, a mix of different lengths depending on the topic/video style.
I agree completely with this! Great video!
Thank you so much!
Pretty sure part 3 is gonna be called FF7 Reunion. Had a "Oh, Duh" moment halfway through the Nibel region.
Alas it can't be! Reunion was my big pick for the third game however Nomura wanted to use Reunion for Rebirth but wasn't able to because they used it for the Crisis Core remaster, which seems very silly but there we are!
If I recall, Aerith wasn’t planned to die in the earliest drafts of FFVII. The leftover bits where she has dialogue are actually from those earlier parts of development where she survived the whole game.
(My Rebirtb theory is she is more of Sephiroth and Jenova messing with Cloud and she’s dead.)
That's not quite correct. Aerith was not orginally going to die but eventually was planned to die at the scripting stage, long before programming scenes like that would have happened
I too heard before of what @bolladragon is saying.
And I don't know how Square developped their games in the 90s (and still don't know how they do today), but I do work in video game making, and narration changes often happen at various stage of production. Everything is made pretty much at the same time, give or take on somethings. Like yes, usually narration is done before art is, but it doesn't stop before the other diciplines starts.
We might never know when they actually made the decision, but from my experience it is likely that it might have changed after some cutscenes or event were already made. Big changes and cuts like that are relativly usual to some extend.
But they might also have just changed some scene orders as you said or something! Both are possible and the only way we'd know is if the team themselves confirms it :)
Having not played the original and looking into is as much as I can to understand as much as I can the choices des made with the remakes, your video was really interesting!
Yes exactly what i thought. That's the aerith cloud was seeing in ac. We just thought cloud is "reminiscing" her and zack in ac but now we knew he's really seeing her. My guess is that she will linger till the end of trilogt (the ending scene in ff7 shows aerith again) and will make cloud depressed hence the emo cloud in ac. To be fair, seeing a ghost will really drive you mad.
I think there is something about their promise at the end of rebirth, where aerith said to cloud to take care of sephiroth and she'll take care of the planet. We know sephiroth isn't truly dead so cloud wasn't able to fulfill his promise.
Ya Im liking the ending more and more now remembering all this stuff. LOL I remember doing all this back in the day and showing my friend the ghost who was like NO WAI ! Then we did all the Debug room stuff with a game shark and saw all the dialogue and that's why we thought the rumors of her living back then where true.
I kinda think it's insane when people say that Remake is meant to do what they couldn't back then. And now I actually believe it. If Cloud was meant to have serious brain issues and see Aerith's ghost what if that was an actual thread they explored but ultimately cut because it would be too confusing.
And now they're like, ok we'll throw timelines and such at you and make it confusing on purpose, because that's what it would actually be like to go insane and we'll finish the cut content that we left parts of in(because it had already been implemented before changing their minds(or worse to tap into gamers' actual psyches and make people wonder if Aerith could be brought back)).
Very interesting connection.
Funny enough, Kitase even said that if they do a FFVIII Remake, he wants to entertain the Squall is Dead theory.
'Mew under the Truck' is a new one. I'm 35 and this is a first time hearing that one.
Oh yeah very big old rumour in the Pokémon community haha
really? that was THE rumor for the original rby games. EVERYONE talked about it.
Last time I played FF7, the version playable on PS4 (PC version I'm told) I wandered into the church before Aerith died. I hadn't left Midgard yet. She appeared in the church and vanished. Seems to just be a glitch.
Like I and many other fans who took the time to fully understand and interpret the compilation have said, everything in remake/rebirth has been taken from the original game and compilation. There’s nothing new here, including the multiple realities/worlds as manifestations of the livestream. Nice video!
I think Cloud saved Aerith, and didn't save Aerith. I think he is seeing Aerith's conscience from the Terrier world as she is still in a coma like Cloud. Zack is in the church back in the Terrier world, and I think he will go back to Elmyra's and Aerith will wake up thus reuniting her with her first love. While she did die in the Beagle world, she didn't in the Terrier world. Sephiroth will come looking for her once she wakes as Marlene predicts, but Zack will be ready to defend her and he may obtain some new power to counter Sephiorth's power disallowing him from sending him away into the black lifestream. However the big mystery is who else from the compilation will appear in part 3? When we learn some more about that, it will give us a hint of what may be to come.
The Ghost of Aeris in the OG is hard to figure what Nomura meant then... I think someone should ask him directly once part 3 comes out and perhaps then he will give a definitive answer and solve the 30 year old riddle which so many have extensively searched for.
it feels like good old times again. no deny. ff7 triple R's going hit the gaming history another time. i believed what i said so.
Cloud is doing the same thing in Rebirth that he’s doing in Advent Children. He communicates with Aerith in the Lifestream. Their strong bond combined with his Mako treatment gives him te sensitivity to do so. Only difference is that in Rebirth he doesn’t accept that she’s already dead whereas in AC he has come to terms with that fact and feels guilty about it. That’s what part 3 of the Relake will be about: him accepting her death. This will be when he and Tifa are in the Lifestream and we will see him carry Aerith into the lake to say goodbye. Unlike in the OG where him realising he was the Shinra grunt fixes his personality, this time it will be the acceptance of Aerith’s death that will fix him.
Don't cloud and sephiroth have jenova cells?
Ok first video of the new channel!
Man, avoiding Aerith's fate is the one thing I wanted the remake trilogy to do but now I have given up hope xD
Haha sorry!
I don't know how SE does it if they want Aerith or Zack come back alive.
But one thing I'm almost sure 100% is that lifestream in gaia is not only made of memories, but also dreams, manifestation, imagination, desires.
We've been shown Lifestream as memories in Tifa's falling into mako reactor,
Lifestream as dreams or manifestation in Aerith's dream date and Barret's dream,
the thing is manifestation/imagination in lifestream can really affect the people related to it, I assume Zack is pulled up by Aerith's manifestation of him (i can say this because of Remake's ending, Aerith's looking up to the sky scene after Zack's death, and her yellow lily flowers blossoms on the top of Zack's death spot)
and now it's Aerith.
just like how Sephiroth is still "alive", he's manifested in all those Jenova's dolls and Cloud...
So im still not sure to say SE will actually bring anyone back truly alive. However, there's a possibility of different future, but not the same with chars we've always been playing with
It's the devs trolling us
There was this interesting theory that Sephiroth is going to merge all of the dream worlds with the real world and that’s how Aerith and Zack will come back.
There arent real and dream worlds, all are real now, although some are unstable and short lived.
Honestly, I saw this all coming as far back as Remake's release cycle, but the fact that it all played out almost EXACTLY as I had predicted felt rather disappointing. Like my own expectations spoiled it for me, and keep in mind that I was, with considerable success, taking great pains to avoid spoilers.
I have never once participated in anything final fantasy related but I support!!! 👍🏼
Appreciate ya!
I think aerith moved from cloud timeline to zack timeline after her death, this is related to the appearance of zack and aerith at the end of ff7 advent children movie.
I think the most likely answer is, they never intended to kill her off and they had a time constraint
Nah, Aerith's death was planned from the writing stage
The last part MUST be named Final Fantasy 7 Reunion
Can't be. They used it for Crisis Core and Nomura said because of that he can't use it (he initially wanted Rebirth to be called Reunion)
@@KarnUltra that’s a shame.. Remake, Rebirth and Reunion, a perfect trio of names..
I think Aerith is gonna turn out to be fully alive, they are just gonna blow the fan theory heads out of the water and be like, everyone was really sad because we were seeing how people felt in the other timeline before cloud stopped it but nope, Aerith really did go do some praying and now she is back and everyone is like "Yo, she's back, great glad she did all that praying." I think they will leave it up in the air for like half the game then bam, nope yup, Cloud wasn't imagining things except how hard everything would have hit everyone if he had failed to stop it. Then things can get more weird and fucky.
It's a multiverse thing. Meaning death and significance means nothing
@7:55 SE said after hearing the theory that squall dies and if they make a remake that they could actually implement that Idea in of squall being in purgatory
Genius, theres a cheat in original ffvii PC where aerith still joins the party after she died and she has dialogues but no interaction with the rest of the party
If I haven't beaten this 3 month old game... well, I guess I'll just save this video for about a year for when I can actually play the game.
Sorry about that but hey, that's why I always give spoiler warnings :)
I think it’s jenova tricking us and that in the final fight aerith wasn’t there
Aerith is my favorite female character in the franchise and beyond, but she is totally dead. I think even ultimania says "cloud vision of aerith is a denyal status" or something similar. You will not see her alive, maybe a ghost force or something. People need to accept this true, this discussion is killing the ending lol. The easy answer, the simple answer is the true answer, i believe.
To be fair, the creators seem to be intentionally giving out wrong Info from time to time. Nomura and Nojima seem to contradict each other in certain Interviews, and I believe that the denial state of Cloud stated in the Ultimania is only a part of what is actually going on. Sort of like a red herring. They are cooking with part 3, and it is definitely going to be different from the original. They set up way too much for it to just end up being the original Story. Especially with everything that happened in Remake.
We will definitely see Aerith again this time around.
Thank God,.. I played the Original game as a kid lol
I don't think it's multiverse,
but jumping from timelines and chars "dreaming" in lifestream are what happens,
Rainbow doesn't commonly represent "multiverse", it is "dream"
So just like the Aerith dream date, Coud is STILL dreaming rn, he hasn't woke up.
As for how Red seems like sense Aerith is because of the lifestream nature, it is said multiple times that lifestream contains memories AND manifestations, Aerith Red and Cloud see is Cloud's manifestation of Aerith. Lifestream is broken, it only makes sense it creates glitches on gaia.
The rainbow is present in the Mogstools.
One would think it’s a dream but everyone in the party can see the Mogs, although Cloud is the only one who goes in.
This is how i know people be reading too much into things. In the PS4 version of FF7, ypu can see her "ghost" even before you first leave Midgard. In fact you see her ghost every time you enter the church.
Not true, the ghost event is a PROPER thing as I very much discussed. It is an intended feature. If there's a glitch in the PS4 version that's not intended and is specific to that build.
Say what you will, but I feel like this doesn't qualify as a cliffhanger as far as endings go. Yes, it leaves questions to be answered, but it still resolves a lot for us. A cliffhanger would be like "Okay Cait Sith is running into the temple for some reason and Cid is watching him go, what's going to happen next? Will Cloud and his friends get out alive? Why is Cloud acting so strange?(okay this is a bad example because I don't think they fully explained this yet despite everything going on, point is they could milk the number of questions we'd have a lot more if they paused a scene) Find out next time in game number 3'. A cliffhanger to me is the production crew pausing the story in the middle of a scene. I'd argue that these scenes(most of them at least) played out to the end, there isn't anything else to deliver since the scenes arrived at a conclusion. Some exceptions might be flashbacks to previous games like showing Sephiroth and Cloud performing differently, enough to match the blood from Aerith's lethal wound. Such scenes were denied detail(and might continue to deny us details, we won't know until part 3 comes out) rather than denied a conclusion. For the ending to be a cliffhanger, we would have to have a scene paused on us for an ending, and I don't see that.
The way I see it, and players that didn't play the OG might not realize this yet but they also might, is that Jenova has been talking to Cloud all through these first 2 games. She's using Sephiroth's image because she knows Cloud remembers him, they even traveled and worked together a little bit later on in Sephiroth's career, even though the working status the two had was not similar. So that's why Cloud is acting weird, she's getting to him with her tricks. So because I already know that, I feel like that question at least is not part of a cliffhanger, I already know the answer, but I can see other people might interpret the situation a bit differently, perhaps they also feel similarly about other things. Either way, I didn't see a paused scene at the end, sure I am curious where they are going, but it's a very easy transition to the next game from here that can simply be explained away as Cid wanted to take them to his place for some reason(a possibility but not guaranteed as an introduction to game 3).
Btw last name is FF REUNION. Has been tease so many times.
It isn't. Nomura has already confirmed he can't use it because Crisis Core Reunion took the name.
I'm 90% sure we're the unreliable narrator this time around and we're getting a nice PoV of what Cloud actually went through during the events of OG 7. The thing that makes it worse is that things are changing as well due to the multiple timelines which makes it so that WE the audience don't know what's going on 100%. I'm also 90% sure that part 3 will follow the last leg of the game up until the very end where we will have a different ending and the FF7 universe (pending sales) will be made.
She may or may not be dead we still don't know for sure. Im assuming in the beagle Timeline she is.
I purposefully avoided spoilers on this game so you could spoil it for me
I give you kissie
Can't watch cuz I haven't beaten it yet but here to drop a like for the new channel and run away 😂🏃♂️
Haha thank you!
Lifestream Sephiroth to Cloud: I give you... My blessing.
I was hoping you would rxplain why the innkeeper stops the arrith ghost
I wish I could, we have zero idea lol
No the ending of 7rebirth is to show you how messed up clouds memory is, to show him disassociating with reality. After everyone is on the plane cloud and Aerith replay chapter 9 of 7remake literally word for word. Cloud wishes and wants to believe so much that this is reality that she is going away... but when Tifa helps put cloud together, i believe it will be more shocking and much darker and more tragic... Clouds drive was always to protect Aerith and Jenova manipulated him beautifuly into believing he saved her, when in reality it was him being controlled by sephiroth/jenova actually killed Aerith. Cloud, the real cloud locked deep within himself that tifa helps him find had nothing ro do with it and was doing what we all saw... just like its revealed that Cloud is really the hero and saved tifa once, we will also be shown the disntinction between Jenova manipulating and controlling him vs him truly wishing to kill Aerith... thats why Cloud asks "Can sins be forgiven?" And Aerith saying "I never blamed you, you came, even when you were breaking." Cloud always wanted to be the hero, thats why him and Zack bonded, its why they have such kinship... its their living legacy... Cloud failed to save her...
(Plot twist if u are still her stick with) Cloud is dying and 7 seconds to the end is how long before the life stream destroys Cloud as he still has Jenova Cells. Sephiroth at the edge of the creation is The Hero Sephiroth. Jenova is trying to break clouds spirit to wear him into the lifestream like a shroud. Aerith knows the lifestreams defense and is sending aid. Each game ends in remake/rebirth at the edge of creation... I think Cloud will be so broken emotionally learning Aerith died by his hands that this may be the divergence and we go to the edge of creation for part 3. Where Jenova takes over cloud and enters the lifestream turning into Cloud Life Devourer. Everyone can fight to save Cloud and bring cloud back with memories. Sephiroth and Kadaj could theoretically show up and help end "mother". Just saying endless possibility... then when Jenova is killed Cloud enters the promised land... where everyone is waiting because time doesnt exist within the promised land and all life returns to it...
thanks to AC this isn't really even a theory. it's clear that up to this point atleast, aerith doesn't let herself or zack, disolve into the lifestream.
but, i kinda opose the theory that a multiverse/multiworld/pre emtive memory thing, wasn't teased all along. how does OG FF7 end? with aerith looking up.
then we fast forward 500 years and nanaki has 2 children. and we know he has a mother from rebirth.
so there have to be more labratdogs out there, but we never seen one. and we've been around the world.aerith looking up, and the multiple endings we have trough the compilation, always experienced their own lil diffrences, but OG ends with aerith looing up, same as it starts, and same as remake starts.
he multi world theory could also hint at many games started, but never finished, cuse those worlds were doomed to end. and many ppl played trough it multiple times, in multiple ways.
maybe that's how they want to condone that this time, it's more on rails. as in, freedom was easier to achieve back then, now it has to be more on rails for everyone to have a more definitive place in the games story. cause we rarely splitt off, when in the old game, you needed to call on your friends if you wanted to change the party.
the splitt offs happening now, happen definitvly, all the other ones are jut not active during the battle sequences.
graphics were great
voice acting and music great.
story missed the mark,
combat , not what i enjoy at all
would have preferred naoki yoshida as director and the more turn based atb system myself.
Listen even in the original she's always there just only in spirt its fitting they choice this she's a part of the life stream. The glitches was because of cut content in development they planned on her living at one point
The original ends where Remake begins.
I haven't played it yet, so I'm not gonna watch, but I'm here to leave a like and Comment anyway. ❤
Appreciate ya!
wait a minute. Aerith dies?!
Hahahaha
Why would Sepheroth say Jenova can become people you love if that wasn't going to factor in?.
It could factor in!
Reborn
Could be :)
ALL I WISH WAS Better graphics same game..same GAME!!!!.. now everyone is bipolar..confused....having said this...I do wish Aeris is back..lol
If they don’t call they final part REUNION then honestly what is the point…
They can't unfortunately cause they used it Crisis Core Reunion. Nomura said he wanted to use Reunion for Part 2 but couldn't because of Crisis Core.
@@KarnUltra Damn, ur right. Didn’t think about that at all…
Too bad the endgame VR takes 500 tries and wears you to a nub because the story is mostly great
Reaching
Internet comments when someone has a silly theory they admit isn't that deep or serious: 😡
@@KarnUltra this is serious business
L Is Real
I’m willing to bet half my paycheck that next game “Re” title will be Remaster.
I dunno, Remaster has pretty strong industry connotation that might seem confusing
@@KarnUltra it has marketing and story implications. They can definitely sell the trilogy as the Final Fantasy 7 Remastered trilogy. And ties with Cloud having to Remaster is own will and self
@@KarnUltra remake did the same thing. When we all heard remake, the thoughts were just ff7 OG with updated graphics. Now I know it’s what Sephiroth wants to do with the countless worlds
A Remaster is seen as inferior to a Remake though. A gloss of paint versus a total overhaul. It's not a great term to use for your third and final part of a remake trilogy. Definitely viable but certainly not that exciting imo
All of Aerith's unused dialog in FF7 OG is are leftovers from when the game was going to have the team of only Cloud, Aerith, and Barrett; and Aerith was going to live. Tifa was made as a last-minute addition to FF7 before the JP release in order to give Cloud more backstory (that's also why her and Cloud can never work because she is his past. A reminder of everything that he went through while in shinra and like Jenova and Sephiroth she only tells Cloud the truth when its convenient for her and gets mad whenever he questions her when he subconsciously knows she's lying.) However, some people don't know that. Then Zack was added in the international releases, also known as the JP delux upgrade edition.
Honestly Aerith death wasn't even pre planned they just decided scrap the original story of her living (which they were still going to use) and added her ☠️ instead at the last second before releasing disk 2 after adding Yuffi and the others in. Then they just removed her triggers for the later parts of the game.
It could be that the ghost Aerith in the church turning off from that one dialog choice is because that specific dialog choice was something they added after deciding to ☠️ her meanwhile the other choices are from before that time in development which is why she still shows up. Actually from what I remember during quarantine someone actually found a way to interact with Aerith before she despawns, and she will have a dialog with Cloud and then join the team again and be usable in battle once more and travel with you. However, no one will acknowledge her, and her unused dialog triggers won't activate but she will stand in her correct location in each scene.
This further proves that the Aerith in the church after the Jenova boss is also a leftover from the time in development before they decided to ☠️ her. This means that the reason she dissappears is because the devs put an extra trigger to make her despawn before the player gets in range of her dialog box, thus giving the illusion of her being a ghost or Cloud reminiscing. When in reality it's actually her wating in the church and Cloud coming to talk with her and tell her he's okay so they can all continue their journey.
Some of this is true but I think a lot of this is misremembered or straight up not true. Zack is in every version of FF7, he just gets ONE additional scene in the International version.
I cannot find a single source stating Tifa was added super late in development, just that she was created after the core trio but still likely before full development began.
Aerith's death was decided at the scripting stage, WAY before main development would begin. Aerith's death was literally a core part of development, not something changed last minute.
"During the writing of the script, the development team were discussing the possibility of killing off nearly the entire cast of player characters, with only three surviving, an idea suggested by Yoshinori Kitase. The team eventually decided against the idea, as Tetsuya Nomura argued that it would dilute the meaning of Aerith's death. Eventually, they decided that only Aerith should die. Her death scene was written by Kazushige Nojima."
To quote Kitase
"So we wanted to depict that there is weight to life, and just put weight on the loss as well to life, and that’s where we all started with Final Fantasy VII. That was our core concept.”"
@KarnUltra No, I'm right. The JP version of FF7 is different from the international release and the upgrade offered to JP after the international releases to get all the international stuff.
In the original, everyone of Zack's scenes has a copy of Cloud's model in Zack's spot with heavy shadows to obscure that fact. The additional Zack scene was added in the international and JP upgrade versions because they finally gave him a model. Also, Nomura is the one who said the thing about Tifa in either FF7 Dismantled or one of the Ultimanias to quote word for word what he says - "After I'd done the hero and heroine, I carried on drawing by thinking what kind of characters would be interesting to have. The first characters I drew were Cloud and Aerith. Next was Barrett." and "Actually, we had only Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist." and "Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barrett, and Aerith." - Tetsuya Nomura
(he does say the thing about Tifa being a last-minute thing, but I just haven't found an image of that quote again yet, and I don't want to quote it incorrectly. If I find it, i will add it.)
If I remember correctly, the thing about not wanting her to die originally is also from one of the Ultimanias and to my memory Nojima said that one. I know I've seen images of it around and remember reading it. So I know that I know what I'm talking about. I did say that some people don't know about this stuff, but I've seen many myself included who do know about it.
@@Supersonicblue1027 The vast majority of this is heavily incorrect... however, if it were it is still rendered completely and utterly pointless because were it true or not; it is not the story/game that was presented. We can sift through development of any large JRPG or really any game, book, movie or story telling medium at its drawing board and make baseless claim's. In ASOIAF/Game of Thrones, Tyrion and Jon were going to have a love triangle with Arya if you read the original plan for the manuscript. You're basically saying therefore, Tyrion and Jon do not work with whatever partners they have, have had or will have in the series because Arya represents their real interests. Which is utterly and completely baseless, also given the direction that particular story took would be considered borderline insane.
I assume you're an Aerith shipper given your desire to erase Tifa from the narrative as a prospective love interest, when it's quite clear that she is the primary or potentially secondary love interest (once he becomes Cloud again). Also, you are incorrect Tifa was not created last just after Barrett and Aerith... which this guy literally just told you and then you completely agreed with him with the quote you gave in response to try and prove your point. Aerith's initial interest in Cloud stems from her interest in his similarities/contrasts to Zack, once Aerith realises the issue with Cloud she drops her interest (which is only made more apparent in Remake) and leaves Cloud to Tifa since they are in fact best friends and I don't recall Aerith being a heartless bitch. Aerith never actually meets Cloud Strife, but I digress, the desire to bend the narrative based on original plans of a story is fruitless. It's like me saying well Tifa and Cloud are clearly meant to be together because there was meant to be an additional scene, whereby they leave the Chocobo stable on the Highwind together after the scene beneath the Highwind... where they sleep together, but had to remove it as blatantly adding in that they were sleeping together would have made them have to give the OG a mature rating, whereas the game just heavily hints at it with HA towards Tifa. Moving away from shipping wars, Nomura originally wanted to have everyone in the party but the three you take to Midgar die... That didn't happen, you cannot bend the presented story based on what may have originally been intended, especially at the stages of development.
@wildvalentine Okay slow down, man. One question: How did we get to the conclusion that I want to "erase tifa" from the game? You know that's not what this is about.
This was about me proving that I know what I'm talking about and that the unused Aerith scenes are from before Tifa's existence, and were still going to be used after Tifa's creation, until the team made the decision to ☠️ Aerith; and that the "church ghost" is actually just a apart of the original version of FF7 story where Aerith was going to live just like those unused versions of the extra cutscences with Aerith. However, it was repurposed and given an extra trigger to despawn her if the player approached her, so the player couldn't get close enough to interact with her.
Yeah, I like Clerith, but that's because it's the canonical romance. Everything in FF7 always refers to Aerith as Cloud's most cherished thing and refers to him as Aerith's most cherished thing as well. Yeah, they'll say friend, but lovers are also friends and more.
English version of FF7 loves to ship Tifa or construde the meanings sometimes for fan service but in JP Tifa is always "childhood friends" and Nomura the guy who made Tifa literally has said in interviews in official books related to AC that Cloud and Tifa would never work even if Cloud never met Aerith.
However, none of that has to do with our current conversation, so stop changing the subject and self projecting that your ship is more important than the points I made. As only someone who clearly believes their ship is more important than lore or thing the team has said. Which I assume based on your behavior you are a Cloti. Which is fine but irrelevant to the current topic, and you know that which is why you left three periods after "incorrect..."
Look the point is I told the truth, and you just didn't know about it, but now you do and if you want to you can now go on a little reasearch hunt armed with what I've told you so can educate yourself on the matter that is all. Shipping had nothing to do with this, nor was it the topic of the video. Why does everyone think that is the center of everything? Can we please not be toxic? Thank you.
@@Supersonicblue1027 I'm not being toxic I find the very notion of 'Clerith and Cloti' toxic. The insinuation that Cloud and Aerith are canonical goes to show you have little understanding or regard for the story presented. I am not 'Cloti' I find the very idea of being labelled that abhorrent. Aerith doesn't meet Cloud Strife; other than a brief moment in Advent Children in which who did she walk away with into the Lifestream with again? Oh yeah Zack, the original reason for her interest in Cloud due to his emulation of Zack, him being similar because he is what she thinks is a 1st Class SOLDIER, with some contrasting cool guy persona which is based off what he thought Tifa would desire. She becomes far more interested in discovering the 'real' Cloud and worries for his mental state. Had Tifa not met Cloud and the Jenova Cells not formulated mimicry based on Tifa being the only link that pulls him into some semblance of reality, but creates a persona solely based on the way he wanted Tifa to view him. Were the tables reversed I would be fine with that because the characters stand alone as is. However, the story clearly demonstrates that Cloud and Tifa love one another. That is not to say that the version of Cloud that meets Aerith does not have feelings for her, even feelings of love towards her because of how Jenova Cells work.
You told a warped version of the truth and development of the game, Zack was in all versions. What you may be referring to is the fact that he wasn't her boyfriend in the original Japanese but instead referred to as 'the first guy I liked'. You also said Tifa wasn't added until 'last' not after Aerith, Barrett and Cloud 'last' and rushed in... although that is irrelevant regardless, because it isn't the story so let's put that on hold.
Please tell me how and in what way Cloud and Aerith are canonical. I've played the original more times than I could count, Remake many times over and Rebirth twice... Rebirth only serves to further demonstrate how Cloud and Tifa are the intended couple, I am not going to say canonical because while I believe the games HEAVILY insinuate this I am not going to lie about what has and hasn't been confirmed as canonical. I am utterly open to learning as to why Cloud and Aerith are canon, but when all evidence and now new evidence insinuates the complete contrary I struggle to see how you will do this. I hate that this is still a thing people do and I hate that I'm doing it now. Also, the game wouldn't have even began programming in dialogue before Tifa's creation so saying that those lines exist from when Tifa wasn't in it is categorically untrue.
Ffvii remake part 3 will be reunion. It’s so obvious.
Can't be. They used it already for Crisis Core.
They have officially said it it not called that
It would be the best possible title if they hadn’t used it before
My guess would be "Return", as it is the closest to Reunion, without interrupting their "Re" naming pattern.
You missed something, Aeris in church was added in later relaeses of FF7 like Gratest Hits or Platinium. IT was not there in any original game - black label. There was a glitch in them that make you could see her but that was a glitch. You can even see it now, she will be there for a split second then she will appear near flowers. That was added later as a easter egg. So your whole theory falls flat, sorry.
Do you have any source for this? I can't find a single resource stating that to be true at all.
This is my first time even hearing about this, and If they can make a nod to a small vocal minority, they must be hearing the extremely loud majority saying how much they hate the ending
Oh brother lol
@@KarnUltra 😂😂 all I’m hearing in my head is the SpongeBob meme “this guy stinks” lmao I already know man
Its reunion
It isn't. Because they used it for Crisis Core Reunion and Nomura said specifically because of that they couldn't use it. He originally wanted Rebirth to be called Reunion.
@@KarnUltra thats called Crisis core
No it's called Crisis Core REUNION lol
I think this one is a stretch honestly.
It's quite clear that the devs are trying their best to let fans have their cake and eat it, desperate to please them with all manner of fan services and moves like this. The things that made the original game so good be damned.
She’s going to be alive but not as homage to anything. Just in woke 2024 you can’t make the games like you used to. They didn’t even show her die properly.
no. it's just square enix destroying their perfect story with an unecessary multiverse...
🙄