Matt Fradd speedos, too tight swimwear, too tight shirts that show off muscles, jeans that are too tight and show off the butt, anything that shows the bulge.
At least in America, speedos, Jeans so baggy you see guys underwear, button down shirts with only afew buttons left done (excluding situations like at the beach, plumbers crack, underwear sticking out the bottom of guys shorts (I’m not counting compression tights under running shorts Ab those are really long), etc. in not convinced that exercising shirtless would necessarily be immodest, that would probably come down to prudent, environment, motives, and temperature (if it’s 80+ outside and especially if it’s also humid, it could be reasonable).
Matt Fradd Since women tend to be more attracted to wealth and power, and men tend to be attracted to beauty, male modesty would be different. Women should not pretend to be ugly, they should show their beauty in a responsible manner. Men then should dress cleanly, but not flaunt brand names,top hats and arab collars, white spats and lots of dollars. My .02$
Men with super tight t-shirts I find really distracting, especially when they are toned. I can assume already that your muscular without you flaunting it and showing it off. Man cleavages; extremely low cut shirts is also immodest on men just as much as on woman. But really.... behavior and language is the worst. Please don’t watch porn, or view woman as a “challenge” to see if you can “get with her”. It’s this immodesty of the mind that is the most toxic among men these days.
Yes, men need to be just as modest too. Please be mindful of your SSA brothers. We are trying to live as chastely as OSA but its hard to do that if we only talk about feminine modesty.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
Some men purposefully wear tight tee shirts, or shirts that are a size too small, to show off their build. Guys, just wear the right size, please. Same with pants
@@Nekcarb420 Modesty is done out of consideration to others, the whole point is to make someone else's walk just a little easier. You don't have to go out of your way to help someone else, but you should do so, because it is a good thing to do.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
The more I learn about history, the more I realize how much of a product of the world I am instead of the Bible. In doing so, I realize how much tradition we've thrown away, one of them being modesty. To me male modesty is similar to female modesty. Not drawing attention to yourself. Nothing wrong with being muscular, but ask yourself why you're wearing revealing clothing when a well fitting piece of clothing would suffice. It doesn't have to be skin tight to fit well, I think it even looks feminine. I'm not asking it to be baggy. Find a good tailor, or even better learn on your own. In the end we can't be cynical of others motivations, everyone just has to be honest with God about their motivations.
i wonder about how tight though. for example there is a difference between full blown spandex and a white cotton undershirt that is form-fitting but is still slightly loose to where the fabric bunches up a little. plus if you look at history, lower class men and soldiers commonly wore really tight pants that almost look like yoga pants. not that i wear anything like that
*There is no such thing as "modest or immodest" clothing. It's a false premise created out of ignorance and lack of understanding of what our bodies represent. Physical modesty varies all over the world throughout all nations, religions and cultures and has done so all throughout history. It's not something you can put under a microscope and study in a science lab or back with research or data or defend with faith (The Bible). It's just something based on feelings and emotions and that makes it empty.*
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 Catholics don't see the body as disgraceful (at least we aren't supposed to), it is good. However, because of the fall of Adam and Eve we now suffer from Concupiscence (even good people), therefore we should do are best to speak and dress modesty as to hopefully not be a cause of Temptation to are brothers and sisters around us.
@@blackwood3243 *The problem is most people don't even know what lust is. You probably think lust and sexuality are the same thing...guess what?...THEY'RE NOT. Sexuality is completely natural, healthy and proven to lengthen a life span. Lust is a manipulation of sexuality that harms yourself and others. Having a sexual feeling for someone isn't "lusting" after them. God created us to be sexual beings, that's why He gave us genitals and sex hormones. Also it's clinically proven that we benefit from daily masturbation meaning we benefit from sexual urges further proving that we're supposed to, by God's design, embrace our sexual nature. So even if someone is dressing to be enticing and turn heads, that's completely natural.*
As a western woman raised without religion, I have ALWAYS hated the cultural pressure to essentially wear lingerie in public, at the beach. Even Hermoza's swimsuits aren't enough to make me feel comfortable (I don't wear 'short shorts' in summer -- so why would I wear anything that goes no lower than a pair of underwear, just because it's sand under my feet instead of grass?). I'm legit sympathetic to the Muslim full body bathing suit phenomenon, and would probably happily do something like that if I wouldn't draw equally unpleasant attention to myself that way. In the meantime I just wear 50's style swimsuits, swimdresses, board shorts, etc. But yeah, I feel WAY more disrespected by society trying to pressure me to take my clothes off, than any pressure to put more clothes on. I get that other people may come from different backgrounds where it's the opposite for whatever reason. But honestly I just want to play in the water, and I usually DON'T, because thinking about strangers staring at my nearly naked body makes me self-conscious and not want to go to water events at all.
Look up swim dresses! Amazon has some and there are Private small companies that make them. I wear a swim dress that goes half way down my thighs and then they attach to a pair of leggings that go to my upper calf. Swim suit material, modest, comfortable, done! Or alternately swim skirt or board shorts with a rash guard top. Go have fun and ditch the bikini esp if you aren’t comfortable!
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 But he also created us to be HOLY! It is our responsibility to safeguard the holiness of ourselves and others. This is why we must modest and chaste. Not because being naked is bad, but because sin is.
The title is male modesty, and then they still spend most of this video talking about female modesty. Smh. They should make another one where they address only male modesty. I think it is an important issue that men need to be made aware of. So many men think they can dress however they want, because for so long we've been told women aren't as lustful as women, but this is just not true whatsoever.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@thestraightroad305 *There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical* *The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.* *Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
Interesting comment about "no one's tempted by that" when talking about taking your shirt off at the gym. The point often presented to women is that their bodies are tempting to men and must therefore be covered no matter how conventionally fit they may be. You may not think your body is "tempting," but someone else might. And really, the truth is that modesty is about more than how others view your body. You can be modest without a shirt and immodest with a shirt. The hyper-focus on clothing and how sexually tempting we may be to others is the problem with "modesty culture."
I agree - it makes no sense to say women shouldn't be tempted by shirtless men but men are normal if they're tempted by a mini skirt. I think most of what they said was solid though.
@@Jess_ica2927 I don't think they were condoning a man's lust when he sees a mini-skirt. The point is that, given the kind of culture we're in, it's an unfortunate fact that men do get tempted by a mini-skirt, and a woman who cares about the spiritual state of the men she's around will take that fact into account when she dresses. Of course, a man who lusts has no one to blame but himself. But why dress in a way that makes it more likely that he will fall into lust?
@@Jess_ica2927 I would have to be critical to that sentiment too. While we do live in a culture, we should not use it to justify and normalize it. I think when we say , "Guys are porbably going to be tempted." It normalizes the activity. But if we just say "because people shouldnt be objectified, men or women."
I so agree. By that same logic an overweight, less attractive woman should feel fine walking down the street in a thong bikini because "no one is tempted."
Modesty for a man is simply covering up your body. Not walking around shirtless whenever u get the chance. Literally before 1930 it was illegal for men to be shirtless
Good vid. A couple of thoughts: Yes, men taking their shirts off is immodest. Even if you're at a guys-only gym. Nowadays with culture making gay okay, it's quite likely for a topless male to become a source of lust. And, come on, if the gals can put up with being hot and keeping a top on, so can guys. Second, the trend of tight shirts (spandex especially) to show off the male physique is immodest and plays into women's own visual lusts of the male body. (Ditto with tight pants.) Besides, with guys it's more a sin of pride. Just because women are not AS vulnerable to visual lust as men, doesn't mean we're not vulnerable at all. I'm just sayin'...
@@Kitiwake Where does that put Adam and Eve before the fall? 🤔 Is it the nakedness or our reaction to it? Disordered appetites? What about babies and toddlers who have a tendency to run like jaybirds? A husband and wife are naked before each other... Thinking out loud here...🤔 Thoughts?
Its a physiological fact that men are hotter than women. Estrogen thickens the blood and reduces circulation to capillaries in the skin and extremities. Plus men have more mass, creating more heat just by existing. Do you understand that we also build houses and keep the lights on and the water running? Have you ever had to install an air handler in a 130 degree attack while weighing 200lbs? I don't take my shirt off around women, but come on, its just ridiculous to say we can never take our shirts off. We have to bathe too!
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 I respectfully disagree. We do not live in The Garden. We live in a fallen world--filled with fallen people who have disordered appetites. Better to go generally with what Jesus and Mary wore. Modesty (to veil the sacred and not to lead others into sin, as well as to avoid vanity) is important. If all the visionaries and people who have had near-death experiences are to be believed, people in Heaven wear full-length, light-colored robes. People in Hell are naked.
As a woman (using my husband’s account) I can tell you how freeing it actually is to wear modest clothing such that I don’t have to be always worrying if I’m flashing anyone or if I’m showing too much in the way I dress. I can focus on other things in my day.
im so happy I can wear whatever I want in this modern world without men telling me what to wear and are men held up to the same standards as Christian women
I think it’s important to establish that, as Christopher West says, clothing cannot be immodest or modest. Modesty is a virtue of the person that is based on his or her heart’s intention. Great stuff, guys
Great conversation. Shame that people always need to find something wrong with a discussion (comments section in this case) and that people get so defensive about certain topics. As a male, this conversation has made me realise where I may be going wrong with modesty or lack there of. I will definitely do my best to be more self aware of how I present myself. Also, as a male, this conversation did not make me judge woman any more or less but rather contributed to my own self reflection... even though there were more examples regarding women's modesty. Man, I can just imagine how hard it would be to make such a discussion public. Well done!
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
men with extremely tight clothing is immodest to show off their build , men wearing tight swimwear that look like tight underwear is immodest, men wearing tank tops that are torn at the arm pits showing most of their side and half of their chest is immodest , men without shirts in any place besides the beach is immodest, comfortable clothing at the gym and modest swim wear near pools and at the beach is understandable. AND IF YOU'RE TITLING A VIDEO WITH THE WORD 'MEN' IN IT DON'T SPEND MOST OF IT TALKING ABOUT WOMEN. I don't consider my body to be the most attractive but people have differnet opinions; just because you don't think you're attractive it doesn't mean you should still show off a lot of skin; it's no excuse. men ought to worry about modesty as much as women; men ought to think about modesty the same way a modest woman would think about modesty; men ought to do what a modest woman would do; you don't see a topless woman in public, then don't take off your shirt, you consider a woman immodest if she shows off part of her waist, don't take off your shirt and don't tear the sides of your tank top, you consider the cleavage immodest, wear tanktops that are higher in the chest area, you consider the woman's butt immodest, don't wear tight spandex trousers unless you're working out and need flexible clothing, you consider a woman showing off her tighs immodest? don't wear short shorts that expose your thighs even if you are a man (go by the slightly above or right at the knee rule), you consider a woman to be vulgar if she cusses? then don't cuss. The body's form can't be thrown away because it is how God made us. I am a modest woman and i cover everything and i still had men looking at areas i couldn't hide even if i wore a veil, but when it comes to showing off, both men and women ought to be considerate.
how tight of a shirt is too tight? personally i don't think a woman wearing a tight t shirt would be immodest as long as the neck hole isn't too low, but tight pants are way more provocative. I like shirts that fit like this: www.pinterest.com/pin/372321094183956123/ do you think that this is too immodest? its not spandex but its still pretty tight, but also i don't think that a baggy t shirt really does much to hide muscles anyway, its more to do with the thickness of the material. i think part of the problem is that out of shape guys tend to wear baggier clothes, so when a woman says that tight shirts are immodest, they automatically picture in their head that a tight shirt will always have a muscular guy in it, if that makes sense. but then if the muscular guy is in a baggier shirt, he is still going to look good, unless its super duper baggy and/or thick.
*Lust isn't about the physical aspect, it's about the psychological. Lust is a form of abuse and like all forms of abuse the psychological element is what drives the whole issue. As a survivor of childhood, domestic abuse, I know this almost better than anyone. The reason why people have this false sense of what lust is is because they don't understand that part, we see a mere fraction of what happened during these cases (the sexual assualt) and believe that's all there is to it. Because of this, we assume the victim was responsible for "enticing" the perpetrator, this is ignorance. What we don't see is the priming and grooming and intimidation and breaking down of the victim's psychology in order to make this happen. That part of it is more "fun" for the villain than the actual assualt and that's why all acts of lust (pee...dough...feel ya, raype, incest, prostitution, po...rn, molestation, neck...row...feel ya, zoo-feel ya, home...O...sexuality) are deemed men-tall disorders. Do your research and you'll find that the majority of sexual predators have severe men-tall disorders and PTSD. This is what I wish more people understood.*
Men wear short shorts, tight pants, no shirts.. where we can see muscles/ outlines of everything! They have attractive butts too.. and yet they never think oh maybe I should be modest.. even the guy who did the interview said I take my shirt off when I’m hot and sweaty and lifting weights, no one will be tempted by that.. well that’s wrong. Women struggle with lust too and actually one persons yuck is another persons yum.. it’s just to be considerate for everyone. To help those who struggle have less temptation/ miss direction.
Modesty can be summed up by asking the question “How do we, glorify God with our bodies?” To find the perfect example of modesty we don’t need to look any further than Jesus Himself. Present at the creation of the universe, and son of the one true God, He humbled Himself to wear sandals and get His feet dirty right alongside us before taking up the cross and dying for us. People have a dignity that is a direct reflection of their maker. God made us in His own image and likeness. We are made to be beautiful, inside and out. Modest fashion always showcases the dignity of the whole person, and not just certain parts, because people shouldn’t be reduced to just their parts.
*There is no such thing as "modest or immodest" clothing. It's a false premise created out of ignorance and lack of understanding of what our bodies represent. Physical modesty varies all over the world throughout all nations, religions and cultures and has done so all throughout history. It's not something you can put under a microscope and study in a science lab or back with research or data or defend with faith (The Bible). It's just something based on feelings and emotions and that makes it empty.*
A speedo on a man is immodest. If the thing you are wearing is done in order to showcase a part of a person rather than the entirety of a person, then it is immodest.
Generally speedos are immodest (in Europe the situation is probably different, and in competitive swimming it isn’t, but that is because they are culturally appropriate/practically preferable in those situations (swim trunks would create more drag in competitive swimming, whereas for women, bikinis would create more drag than a one piece)
Stellar video. I assure you, women react to visual stimuli as well. I remember countless times growing up of female family members or girl classmates going "that man is so attractive!" and talking about how handsome they are. I can only assume a lustful woman would swoon on the inside when she sees an attractive man taking his shirt off, just as I would become embarrassed seeing an attractive woman take her shirt off. The body is important and we should treat it as such!
This conversation failed to explore the deeper differences between male and female sexuality and its implications for modesty. Men are attracted to physically fit, fertile women, simply enough. But while almost all men are fertile, only some can support a woman and her infant. Therefore women are sexually attracted to strength; and while immature women may judge strength primarily in physical terms, by age 25 most of us are being judged on our bank balances. Therefore, men, to be modest, stop dressing like a peacock, wearing designer clothes, driving a golden chariot and bragging about your career success. As always, Hollywood is a great guide to vice; picture the stereotypical Mafioso - that's male immodesty.
as a woman I disagree. Most women most certainly are attracted to men's looks. When I think about a list of things that attract me in a person, bank account isn't even in the top 10. Some women are attracted by money, but that's often because they are poor and have no other choice.
@@Demosc0ut I am attracted to a man's initially. Do men think that women are blind? I am growing to be more attracted to a man's level of intelligence. Some beautiful women feel entitled to rich men. To them, their looks are an investment. Women definitely care about status but I know I like looking at handsome men.
@@mz2535 I definitely care if the man is employed or has a career. If I had a choice between a sexy English professor vs an overweight billionaire CEO - I would choose the sexy English professor. I would choose the sexy English high school teacher. I am fine being middle class or financially stable. I know to some people that would be a completely foolish choice because there are more life opportunities with a rich man.
On the man’s responsibility to moderate his imagination part, preventing lust is not the only reason for dressing immodestly, but also for maintaining a high class atmosphere and preventing the Walmart-ification of the world. Plus, immodesty can be very distracting even if attraction is not involved, nudity, whether beautiful or not, is distracting and has a way of drawing the eyes whether pleasure is derived from the visage or not, just like a billboard or a flashing neon sign.
I look like an old timer that looks like I am going fishing down at a farm pond. Cammo overall 's and boots and a olive green sweat shirt, with a Cammo ball cap with my fishing permit pined to it Church Mass I wear my K of Columbus shirt blue dress pants and shined Oxford shoes . Do I pass there "brother" ? 69 yrs old disabled veteran here.
I live in a place very similar in culture to somewhere like Miami, which is also right near the beach so physical appearance is often flaunted by both men and women. I think a lack of male modesty could be where a man chooses to wear a very spindly vest to show off his physique in a situation where dress shirts and pants would normally be worn, but that's just one example based on what I've personally seen. Simply put I think lust can be triggered in men by women wearing almost nothing, and lust can be triggered in women by men wearing almost nothing.
Jason Evert is excellent at explaining this. I've learnt over time that modesty is just as important for men as for women. The problem is what should men wear going swimming for example as an alternative?
*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*
I seen those "rags" too...It look so stupid when you see a guys nipples sticking out because this "shirt"' is fulfilling absolutely no purpose other than carry some brand's logo/emblem.
I'm not a christian, but I think I get the idea behind covering up. If I understand what you say, it is to help others avoid thinking improper stuff or incite improper behaviour. I am a heterosexual woman, therefore susceptible to thinking sexually of men when I see part of their bodies. Of course it is not the best thing, but you know, thoughts are kind of unavoidable. The only thing you can do is recognize it wasn´t right. Taking that in mind, I think a man who wants to help his sisters not to sin should always have his arms covered, and his shirts should not be tight and made of thicker fabric, so as not to cling to skin. Knit fabrics should also be on the thicker side. T-shirts not acceptable (those biceps, gentlemen). Collarbones shouldn't be visible, much less chest hair. Pants should be at least knee-length and have a nice fit (so that no underwear is showing) but not too tight, because, like you said, "it's just different colored skin". Women may be less vocal or demonstrative of this, but I personally find this kind of stuff very distracting, especially if the man needs me to pay attention. Again I'm not a christian, but I'm saying this sincerely, in line with the criteria used in the video. I'm not trying to be ironic or anything, I just wanted to point out that clothing choices in men do affect womens thoughts more that you think.
Matt, I wish your video had addressed more about male modesty. It seemed like you and Jason got sidetracked talking about female modesty and I must admit as a woman brought up in a anti-body Catholicism I get a bit triggered by this. It wasn’t until later that I encountered TOB at Franciscan, however the demands of modesty that I heard from my brothers weren’t made with humility, they were unfortunately directed with shame. And I understand that that must have been them and their own inability to communicate charitably, but it still hurt my heart. And in my lived experience (in Giussani’s words I have “verified”) that I can be dressed modestly and STILL be sexually harassed and undressed by the eyes of others. When this has happened it has been when I’ve been wearing a T-shirt and jeans. I don’t feel empowered when I get dressed. I often feel fear of being judged by my fellow Catholics and fear of sexual harassment that I can’t control. And I’m a respectable married Catholic woman involved in ministry and pouring my heart into my marriage, family, and commitments. My lived experience is that I can never please every Catholic and I will always be criticized and harassed no matter what I wear. I’d like to leave more positive notes for you here, but this video was a truly disappointing - Though I REALLY appreciated that you and Jason talked a bit about modesty based on context. That seems particularly helpful. For that reason I’ve stopped going to the store in pajama bottoms because even though they fulfill the gag-me-now modesty requirements taught in youth groups, they’re still clothes meant for being in your own bed! Lol I’m subscribed to your Chanel because I deeply appreciate the work that you (and many others) do for evangelizing the world and sharing TOB. Please, if you could, take into account what I’ve shared with you? Your sister in Christ, Jessica Robinson
Clothing wise, yes, but speech can be immodest too. Basically, anything that disrespects the God given gift of dignity is immodest. I may be wearing a sweater and baggy jeans with intent to cover up my body because I think it's gross and I don't want anyone to see what I look like. In this situation, I see my body as not worthy of being seen, so I have hidden it away. This is not modest because I'm thinking that my body, which is so good and such a wonderful gift from God, is disgusting and I am not recognizing my dignity. Essentially, I am saying, "I know God said He made me good but I know better. I know I am gross and not worthy of anything," so it is not modest. I know it was a little lengthy but I hope this helped to open up the way you view modesty for both genders. God bless.
Modesty is about more than just caring for our brothers and sisters sexually. It's about being respectful of others. I have no right to subject any human being, male or female, to be forced to view my body without their consent. Nudity is an intimate thing, even when it is not the least bit sexual, and should only be shared between people who are both consenting to it. Whether you are male or female, taking your shirt off in a public place says "I don't care if this makes you uncomfortable." Or at least, that you haven't thought about their comfort. Sexual or not. Maybe as a whole, women aren't as "tempted" by shirtless males (I think this is not true, to be honest) but it's still true that I feel more respected as a person when I'm not subjected to another person's nudity against my will.
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 after the fall, we started treating each other in ways we aren''t supposed to, including sexualizing each other's bodies. It is impossible to be like we were in the garden, before the fall. That's why Jesus had to come. Bad character is why modesty is necessary. Your comfort may be someone else's discomfort; other people matter too.
@@MrsAngloOrtho *Sexuality existed before the fall. That's why God have Adam and Eve genitals, reproductive organs and sex hormones. That's the reason He brought them together in the first place. This silly stigma that's been placed on sexuality is why people don't understand its true meaning. Also, clothing doesn't inspire anyone to rape you, their hearts do.*
Yes, exactly! Modesty is a virtue that allows you to view the dignity of the human person. When we are modest, we are mindful of those around us, and we view them with dignity. We also treat ourselves with dignity by covering up a little more to help our brothers and sisters in Christ not lust over us. Of course, there are cases where people dress modestly, and onlookers might still lust after that person. Then it is on the onlooker to practice modesty and view who they're lusting over modestly, chastely, with respect, and with their dignity.
At home yes. In public no. I personally feel shirtless men isn't gonna be as frowned upon but nevertheless a man shouldn't feel so casual about showing his body
Why can’t you talk about men’s modesty without talking about women? Men’s modesty should have no barometer. It should be absolute. Talk about it without talking about women!!
What about in the shower? God is there too. St. John Paul II said that you can be modest and partially naked. He used swimming as an example. It's going to be dangerous to wear a dress swimming! Modesty is about your heart, and not drawing attention to yourself. It's not about how many inches of cloth you wear.
some equate bikinis and speedos. There is a huge difference. Hardly any men by the pool, lake or ocean are in speedos. Most of the girls are in bikinis.
Speedos are more revealing and suggestive than bikinis because they accentuate sexual organs. Female bikini panties simply celebrate the form of a woman's body, sexy sure, but actual sexual organs are discreetly hidden. If beautiful women feel happy to celebrate their feminine form at the beach or in public, go for it. It brings pleasure to all. It's all part of the beauty of creation and part of celebrating womanhood. Now if really obese women want to wear bikinis in public that really stretches the limit of public decency ! But each to their own.
When it comes to business/formal dress code, the rules are much stricter for men than for women. Men are required to fully cover their legs and arms. And even a long sleeved shirt is not enough - men should wear a suit jacket over it. The rules for removing a suit jacket are quite strict even on hot days. Women on the other hand are free to expose their legs, arms, shoulder and cleavage. So I think the title of the video is a wrong question. As far as formal attire is concerned, men have already been pushed to very strict modesty. There is no real gender equality there.
Yes men should worry about modesty because it goes both ways, we shall not be hypocritical. We usually don’t see it like that but anything goes both ways. We, both genders, shall strive to imitate Jesus. The radiation of sensuality from oneself, is a sin.
What about how men dress I didn’t hear any discussion about how men dress? Have you ever walked around in Beach look how men are dressing and tank tops Lou sure it’s bellies exposed where is the discussion about how men are utilizing their body?/
Listen here I'm attracted to women, but seeing one (or a man for that matter) half naked doesn't skew my view on whether she's a good person or not. You not being able to see past someone's appearance is a you problem, and if I can control myself around women and not be a fucking creep, you can too.
I think the whole nobody causes someone else to sin thing ignores the verse about the millstones. Scandal is a real thing, and the whole nobody causes someone else to rob a store just seems to be a bad analogy. I do like the rest of the video though.
I think it's evident that men and women are different and that women are more responsible for tempting the lust of men, not the other way around. Not to be crude, but Eve took the apple.
And so did Adam. Crazy thing was Adam saw the results of sin before eve saw it herself. Even after seeing the results of sin, Adam still decided to partake of the fruit. Modesty is a responsibility for BOTH sex.
You're essentially accusing women who dress in the way you think is immodest of it being their fault if they get sexually assaulted and that's fucked up
This is all so interesting, not only is this the very first time I've ever heard anyone say that men should dress more modestly, it's also the first time I've heard a woman say they are tempted by such things.
@@gregorykotoch5045 as a Christian I've always tried my best to look at a man as a person and not his physical traits. But I can easily fall into objectifying a man and liking him only for his physical traits. It's very well known women love handsome men, so of course women would love a man walking around with no shirt on too, my friends and I in highschool used to call it eye candy.
Your jewelry in the window of the shop falls short because it's a sin for a woman to dress immodestly. It's not a sin to keep jewelry in a shop window. This guy sounds like a feminist. If women didn't sin first by dressing immodestly, we would have less problems as a culture.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, character does.*
Idea of Modesty is a joke ???Are you serious? Would you walk naked around your father or friends or family member? God had to kill an animal to cover Adam and Eve nakedness,clothes are important, it protects us from bad weather and cold. So many people die during winter season because of the cold.
@@si_a_to2086 *I didn't say anything about being full on naked. I'm saying that the idea that we have to cover 99% of our bodies every time we leave the house in order to be one with God is ridiculous.*
@@starhunter9085 idea of modesty is not a Joke, you can wear cotton dresses during summer. In Victorian era people used to wear gowns with so many layers everytime. They looked beautiful.
@@si_a_to2086 *We don't live in the Victorian Era any more. We can't base modern day morals off of things that happened hundreds to thousands of years ago.*
Starhunter I have studied fashion designing,so many places people still wear long dresses all day and nobody forced you to wear long dresses everytime, I just gave an example. At work some places,school and during the interview you have to wear wear modest clothes.
Tell me what you think modesty looks like for men. Would be really interested in reading your responses!
Matt Fradd speedos, too tight swimwear, too tight shirts that show off muscles, jeans that are too tight and show off the butt, anything that shows the bulge.
At least in America, speedos, Jeans so baggy you see guys underwear, button down shirts with only afew buttons left done (excluding situations like at the beach, plumbers crack, underwear sticking out the bottom of guys shorts (I’m not counting compression tights under running shorts Ab those are really long), etc. in not convinced that exercising shirtless would necessarily be immodest, that would probably come down to prudent, environment, motives, and temperature (if it’s 80+ outside and especially if it’s also humid, it could be reasonable).
T.J. Armendariz I’d prefer not to see shirtless guys in the gym though and most gyms are air conditioned
Matt Fradd Since women tend to be more attracted to wealth and power, and men tend to be attracted to beauty, male modesty would be different. Women should not pretend to be ugly, they should show their beauty in a responsible manner. Men then should dress cleanly, but not flaunt brand names,top hats and arab collars, white spats and lots of dollars. My .02$
Men with super tight t-shirts I find really distracting, especially when they are toned. I can assume already that your muscular without you flaunting it and showing it off. Man cleavages; extremely low cut shirts is also immodest on men just as much as on woman. But really.... behavior and language is the worst. Please don’t watch porn, or view woman as a “challenge” to see if you can “get with her”. It’s this immodesty of the mind that is the most toxic among men these days.
Yes, men need to be just as modest too. Please be mindful of your SSA brothers. We are trying to live as chastely as OSA but its hard to do that if we only talk about feminine modesty.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
This, thank u for mentioning this
@@starhunter9085 in a sense is true but at the same time we gotta dress presentable and respectfully. We need to show a difference from the world
@@reedemed_caleb *Standards for that vary all over the world and in every situation so it's completely subjective.*
@@starhunter9085 we are fallen and sinful beings. God himself clothed us after the fall, we must wear clothing and be modest
Some men purposefully wear tight tee shirts, or shirts that are a size too small, to show off their build. Guys, just wear the right size, please.
Same with pants
How about we all just wear what we feel comfortable in and not pay and mind to what anyone else thinks.
@@Nekcarb420
Because of the dignity of the human person. Take responsibility and dont be lazy
@@Nekcarb420 because I don’t want to see a man’s moose knuckle. Do you?
@@Nekcarb420 Modesty is done out of consideration to others, the whole point is to make someone else's walk just a little easier. You don't have to go out of your way to help someone else, but you should do so, because it is a good thing to do.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
The more I learn about history, the more I realize how much of a product of the world I am instead of the Bible. In doing so, I realize how much tradition we've thrown away, one of them being modesty. To me male modesty is similar to female modesty. Not drawing attention to yourself. Nothing wrong with being muscular, but ask yourself why you're wearing revealing clothing when a well fitting piece of clothing would suffice. It doesn't have to be skin tight to fit well, I think it even looks feminine. I'm not asking it to be baggy. Find a good tailor, or even better learn on your own. In the end we can't be cynical of others motivations, everyone just has to be honest with God about their motivations.
i wonder about how tight though. for example there is a difference between full blown spandex and a white cotton undershirt that is form-fitting but is still slightly loose to where the fabric bunches up a little. plus if you look at history, lower class men and soldiers commonly wore really tight pants that almost look like yoga pants. not that i wear anything like that
*There is no such thing as "modest or immodest" clothing. It's a false premise created out of ignorance and lack of understanding of what our bodies represent. Physical modesty varies all over the world throughout all nations, religions and cultures and has done so all throughout history. It's not something you can put under a microscope and study in a science lab or back with research or data or defend with faith (The Bible). It's just something based on feelings and emotions and that makes it empty.*
Let’s talk about male modesty!
Spends the majority of the video talking about female modesty. :/
I noticed that too, LOL!
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 Catholics don't see the body as disgraceful (at least we aren't supposed to), it is good. However, because of the fall of Adam and Eve we now suffer from Concupiscence (even good people), therefore we should do are best to speak and dress modesty as to hopefully not be a cause of Temptation to are brothers and sisters around us.
Modestly*
@@blackwood3243 *The problem is most people don't even know what lust is. You probably think lust and sexuality are the same thing...guess what?...THEY'RE NOT. Sexuality is completely natural, healthy and proven to lengthen a life span. Lust is a manipulation of sexuality that harms yourself and others. Having a sexual feeling for someone isn't "lusting" after them. God created us to be sexual beings, that's why He gave us genitals and sex hormones. Also it's clinically proven that we benefit from daily masturbation meaning we benefit from sexual urges further proving that we're supposed to, by God's design, embrace our sexual nature. So even if someone is dressing to be enticing and turn heads, that's completely natural.*
As a western woman raised without religion, I have ALWAYS hated the cultural pressure to essentially wear lingerie in public, at the beach. Even Hermoza's swimsuits aren't enough to make me feel comfortable (I don't wear 'short shorts' in summer -- so why would I wear anything that goes no lower than a pair of underwear, just because it's sand under my feet instead of grass?). I'm legit sympathetic to the Muslim full body bathing suit phenomenon, and would probably happily do something like that if I wouldn't draw equally unpleasant attention to myself that way. In the meantime I just wear 50's style swimsuits, swimdresses, board shorts, etc.
But yeah, I feel WAY more disrespected by society trying to pressure me to take my clothes off, than any pressure to put more clothes on. I get that other people may come from different backgrounds where it's the opposite for whatever reason. But honestly I just want to play in the water, and I usually DON'T, because thinking about strangers staring at my nearly naked body makes me self-conscious and not want to go to water events at all.
yeah i looked at hermozas website for a quick second and its not modest in the slightest way.
Look up swim dresses! Amazon has some and there are Private small companies that make them. I wear a swim dress that goes half way down my thighs and then they attach to a pair of leggings that go to my upper calf. Swim suit material, modest, comfortable, done! Or alternately swim skirt or board shorts with a rash guard top. Go have fun and ditch the bikini esp if you aren’t comfortable!
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 But he also created us to be HOLY! It is our responsibility to safeguard the holiness of ourselves and others. This is why we must modest and chaste. Not because being naked is bad, but because sin is.
@@mewantsnax8885 Amen!
The title is male modesty, and then they still spend most of this video talking about female modesty. Smh. They should make another one where they address only male modesty. I think it is an important issue that men need to be made aware of. So many men think they can dress however they want, because for so long we've been told women aren't as lustful as women, but this is just not true whatsoever.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
It is true and you know it.
Maybe they don’t talk about male modesty because they really don’t have ‘insight into their own weaknesses’. It’s so much easier to talk about women.
@@thestraightroad305 *There are two types of modesty: Spiritual and physical*
*The Spiritual aspect is true 1000% and is made perfectly clear all throughout the Bible. It shows in the way we act and treat one another. It's what we carry in our hearts and minds and spirits. This is what God cares about and what we should be striving towards.*
*Physical modesty is a lie. It's nothing but a man made ideology designed to manipulate and control one another due to our lust for power. It's based on ignorance and our lack of understanding of what our bodies truly represent. This has no basis in the Bible or science.*
Interesting comment about "no one's tempted by that" when talking about taking your shirt off at the gym. The point often presented to women is that their bodies are tempting to men and must therefore be covered no matter how conventionally fit they may be. You may not think your body is "tempting," but someone else might. And really, the truth is that modesty is about more than how others view your body. You can be modest without a shirt and immodest with a shirt. The hyper-focus on clothing and how sexually tempting we may be to others is the problem with "modesty culture."
What about keeping custody of the eyrs?
I agree - it makes no sense to say women shouldn't be tempted by shirtless men but men are normal if they're tempted by a mini skirt. I think most of what they said was solid though.
@@Jess_ica2927 I don't think they were condoning a man's lust when he sees a mini-skirt. The point is that, given the kind of culture we're in, it's an unfortunate fact that men do get tempted by a mini-skirt, and a woman who cares about the spiritual state of the men she's around will take that fact into account when she dresses. Of course, a man who lusts has no one to blame but himself. But why dress in a way that makes it more likely that he will fall into lust?
@@Jess_ica2927 I would have to be critical to that sentiment too. While we do live in a culture, we should not use it to justify and normalize it. I think when we say , "Guys are porbably going to be tempted." It normalizes the activity. But if we just say "because people shouldnt be objectified, men or women."
I so agree. By that same logic an overweight, less attractive woman should feel fine walking down the street in a thong bikini because "no one is tempted."
Modesty for a man is simply covering up your body. Not walking around shirtless whenever u get the chance. Literally before 1930 it was illegal for men to be shirtless
Bring back undershirts and vests.
Good vid. A couple of thoughts:
Yes, men taking their shirts off is immodest. Even if you're at a guys-only gym. Nowadays with culture making gay okay, it's quite likely for a topless male to become a source of lust. And, come on, if the gals can put up with being hot and keeping a top on, so can guys.
Second, the trend of tight shirts (spandex especially) to show off the male physique is immodest and plays into women's own visual lusts of the male body. (Ditto with tight pants.) Besides, with guys it's more a sin of pride.
Just because women are not AS vulnerable to visual lust as men, doesn't mean we're not vulnerable at all. I'm just sayin'...
@@Kitiwake Where does that put Adam and Eve before the fall? 🤔
Is it the nakedness or our reaction to it? Disordered appetites?
What about babies and toddlers who have a tendency to run like jaybirds? A husband and wife are naked before each other...
Thinking out loud here...🤔 Thoughts?
@@VABJMJ agreed. Well put. Thanks.
Its a physiological fact that men are hotter than women. Estrogen thickens the blood and reduces circulation to capillaries in the skin and extremities. Plus men have more mass, creating more heat just by existing. Do you understand that we also build houses and keep the lights on and the water running? Have you ever had to install an air handler in a 130 degree attack while weighing 200lbs? I don't take my shirt off around women, but come on, its just ridiculous to say we can never take our shirts off. We have to bathe too!
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 I respectfully disagree. We do not live in The Garden. We live in a fallen world--filled with fallen people who have disordered appetites.
Better to go generally with what Jesus and Mary wore. Modesty (to veil the sacred and not to lead others into sin, as well as to avoid vanity) is important.
If all the visionaries and people who have had near-death experiences are to be believed, people in Heaven wear full-length, light-colored robes. People in Hell are naked.
As a woman (using my husband’s account) I can tell you how freeing it actually is to wear modest clothing such that I don’t have to be always worrying if I’m flashing anyone or if I’m showing too much in the way I dress. I can focus on other things in my day.
its freeing for the men around you too.
im so happy I can wear whatever I want in this modern world without men telling me what to wear and are men held up to the same standards as Christian women
I think it’s important to establish that, as Christopher West says, clothing cannot be immodest or modest. Modesty is a virtue of the person that is based on his or her heart’s intention. Great stuff, guys
Great conversation. Shame that people always need to find something wrong with a discussion (comments section in this case) and that people get so defensive about certain topics. As a male, this conversation has made me realise where I may be going wrong with modesty or lack there of. I will definitely do my best to be more self aware of how I present myself. Also, as a male, this conversation did not make me judge woman any more or less but rather contributed to my own self reflection... even though there were more examples regarding women's modesty. Man, I can just imagine how hard it would be to make such a discussion public. Well done!
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
men with extremely tight clothing is immodest to show off their build , men wearing tight swimwear that look like tight underwear is immodest, men wearing tank tops that are torn at the arm pits showing most of their side and half of their chest is immodest , men without shirts in any place besides the beach is immodest, comfortable clothing at the gym and modest swim wear near pools and at the beach is understandable. AND IF YOU'RE TITLING A VIDEO WITH THE WORD 'MEN' IN IT DON'T SPEND MOST OF IT TALKING ABOUT WOMEN. I don't consider my body to be the most attractive but people have differnet opinions; just because you don't think you're attractive it doesn't mean you should still show off a lot of skin; it's no excuse. men ought to worry about modesty as much as women; men ought to think about modesty the same way a modest woman would think about modesty; men ought to do what a modest woman would do; you don't see a topless woman in public, then don't take off your shirt, you consider a woman immodest if she shows off part of her waist, don't take off your shirt and don't tear the sides of your tank top, you consider the cleavage immodest, wear tanktops that are higher in the chest area, you consider the woman's butt immodest, don't wear tight spandex trousers unless you're working out and need flexible clothing, you consider a woman showing off her tighs immodest? don't wear short shorts that expose your thighs even if you are a man (go by the slightly above or right at the knee rule), you consider a woman to be vulgar if she cusses? then don't cuss. The body's form can't be thrown away because it is how God made us. I am a modest woman and i cover everything and i still had men looking at areas i couldn't hide even if i wore a veil, but when it comes to showing off, both men and women ought to be considerate.
how tight of a shirt is too tight? personally i don't think a woman wearing a tight t shirt would be immodest as long as the neck hole isn't too low, but tight pants are way more provocative. I like shirts that fit like this: www.pinterest.com/pin/372321094183956123/ do you think that this is too immodest? its not spandex but its still pretty tight, but also i don't think that a baggy t shirt really does much to hide muscles anyway, its more to do with the thickness of the material. i think part of the problem is that out of shape guys tend to wear baggier clothes, so when a woman says that tight shirts are immodest, they automatically picture in their head that a tight shirt will always have a muscular guy in it, if that makes sense. but then if the muscular guy is in a baggier shirt, he is still going to look good, unless its super duper baggy and/or thick.
Another reason for male modesty it's that you never know when another man around you has same sex attraction.
*Lust isn't about the physical aspect, it's about the psychological. Lust is a form of abuse and like all forms of abuse the psychological element is what drives the whole issue. As a survivor of childhood, domestic abuse, I know this almost better than anyone. The reason why people have this false sense of what lust is is because they don't understand that part, we see a mere fraction of what happened during these cases (the sexual assualt) and believe that's all there is to it. Because of this, we assume the victim was responsible for "enticing" the perpetrator, this is ignorance. What we don't see is the priming and grooming and intimidation and breaking down of the victim's psychology in order to make this happen. That part of it is more "fun" for the villain than the actual assualt and that's why all acts of lust (pee...dough...feel ya, raype, incest, prostitution, po...rn, molestation, neck...row...feel ya, zoo-feel ya, home...O...sexuality) are deemed men-tall disorders. Do your research and you'll find that the majority of sexual predators have severe men-tall disorders and PTSD. This is what I wish more people understood.*
Agree
Modesty is amazing for both male and female.
I think the vast majority of men should worry about hubris.
Men wear short shorts, tight pants, no shirts.. where we can see muscles/ outlines of everything! They have attractive butts too.. and yet they never think oh maybe I should be modest.. even the guy who did the interview said I take my shirt off when I’m hot and sweaty and lifting weights, no one will be tempted by that.. well that’s wrong. Women struggle with lust too and actually one persons yuck is another persons yum.. it’s just to be considerate for everyone. To help those who struggle have less temptation/ miss direction.
Modesty can be summed up by asking the question “How do we, glorify God with our bodies?” To find the perfect example of modesty we don’t need to look any further than Jesus Himself. Present at the creation of the universe, and son of the one true God, He humbled Himself to wear sandals and get His feet dirty right alongside us before taking up the cross and dying for us.
People have a dignity that is a direct reflection of their maker. God made us in His own image and likeness. We are made to be beautiful, inside and out. Modest fashion always showcases the dignity of the whole person, and not just certain parts, because people shouldn’t be reduced to just their parts.
*There is no such thing as "modest or immodest" clothing. It's a false premise created out of ignorance and lack of understanding of what our bodies represent. Physical modesty varies all over the world throughout all nations, religions and cultures and has done so all throughout history. It's not something you can put under a microscope and study in a science lab or back with research or data or defend with faith (The Bible). It's just something based on feelings and emotions and that makes it empty.*
Absolutely men need modesty too. In dress, speech, manners, everything.
I think modesty in speech needs to be discussed.
Question from a dude, how are bikinis immodest and not Speedos? They are almost the same.
A speedo on a man is immodest.
If the thing you are wearing is done in order to showcase a part of a person rather than the entirety of a person, then it is immodest.
Speedos on a guy is immodest
Generally speedos are immodest (in Europe the situation is probably different, and in competitive swimming it isn’t, but that is because they are culturally appropriate/practically preferable in those situations (swim trunks would create more drag in competitive swimming, whereas for women, bikinis would create more drag than a one piece)
T.J. Armendariz wrong for women. Bikinis cause more drag for women and that’s why competitive female swimmers wear one pieces
Re: swimsuits and drag in competition
Thus the toying with full body suits for both men and women.
Stellar video. I assure you, women react to visual stimuli as well. I remember countless times growing up of female family members or girl classmates going "that man is so attractive!" and talking about how handsome they are. I can only assume a lustful woman would swoon on the inside when she sees an attractive man taking his shirt off, just as I would become embarrassed seeing an attractive woman take her shirt off.
The body is important and we should treat it as such!
Yes, Modesty is respecting and charity to people around you.
This conversation failed to explore the deeper differences between male and female sexuality and its implications for modesty. Men are attracted to physically fit, fertile women, simply enough. But while almost all men are fertile, only some can support a woman and her infant. Therefore women are sexually attracted to strength; and while immature women may judge strength primarily in physical terms, by age 25 most of us are being judged on our bank balances. Therefore, men, to be modest, stop dressing like a peacock, wearing designer clothes, driving a golden chariot and bragging about your career success. As always, Hollywood is a great guide to vice; picture the stereotypical Mafioso - that's male immodesty.
as a woman I disagree. Most women most certainly are attracted to men's looks. When I think about a list of things that attract me in a person, bank account isn't even in the top 10. Some women are attracted by money, but that's often because they are poor and have no other choice.
@@Demosc0ut I am attracted to a man's initially. Do men think that women are blind? I am growing to be more attracted to a man's level of intelligence. Some beautiful women feel entitled to rich men. To them, their looks are an investment. Women definitely care about status but I know I like looking at handsome men.
@@mz2535 I definitely care if the man is employed or has a career. If I had a choice between a sexy English professor vs an overweight billionaire CEO - I would choose the sexy English professor. I would choose the sexy English high school teacher. I am fine being middle class or financially stable. I know to some people that would be a completely foolish choice because there are more life opportunities with a rich man.
@@Demosc0ut but most women are lesbians anyway
Great insight! God Bless you both! 🙂🙏 Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! 🙂
On the man’s responsibility to moderate his imagination part, preventing lust is not the only reason for dressing immodestly, but also for maintaining a high class atmosphere and preventing the Walmart-ification of the world. Plus, immodesty can be very distracting even if attraction is not involved, nudity, whether beautiful or not, is distracting and has a way of drawing the eyes whether pleasure is derived from the visage or not, just like a billboard or a flashing neon sign.
“Modesty helps a woman find the love that she deserves.” Yes!
Thank you so much for addressing this topic! This is not talked about enough. If y'all don't know, women can lust too.
I look like an old timer that looks like I am going fishing down at a farm pond. Cammo overall 's and boots and a olive green sweat shirt, with a Cammo ball cap with my fishing permit pined to it
Church Mass I wear my K of Columbus shirt blue dress pants and shined Oxford shoes .
Do I pass there "brother" ? 69 yrs old disabled veteran here.
And this is how they missed talking about men's modesty and only spoke of women's modesty.😅
I live in a place very similar in culture to somewhere like Miami, which is also right near the beach so physical appearance is often flaunted by both men and women. I think a lack of male modesty could be where a man chooses to wear a very spindly vest to show off his physique in a situation where dress shirts and pants would normally be worn, but that's just one example based on what I've personally seen. Simply put I think lust can be triggered in men by women wearing almost nothing, and lust can be triggered in women by men wearing almost nothing.
I would like an episode specifically about emotional modesty for men. In the meantime, does anybody have specific examples?
i would love to watch a video about modesty for men
Jason Evert is excellent at explaining this. I've learnt over time that modesty is just as important for men as for women. The problem is what should men wear going swimming for example as an alternative?
@@bethanyparrish9279 Thanks, I'll have a look
*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...*
*Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).*
*All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*
At the gyms I'v been to, I've seen guys wearing tank-tops with the holes for their arms so big that they might as not wear a shirt at all.
I seen those "rags" too...It look so stupid when you see a guys nipples sticking out because this "shirt"' is fulfilling absolutely no purpose other than carry some brand's logo/emblem.
I'm not a christian, but I think I get the idea behind covering up. If I understand what you say, it is to help others avoid thinking improper stuff or incite improper behaviour.
I am a heterosexual woman, therefore susceptible to thinking sexually of men when I see part of their bodies. Of course it is not the best thing, but you know, thoughts are kind of unavoidable. The only thing you can do is recognize it wasn´t right.
Taking that in mind, I think a man who wants to help his sisters not to sin should always have his arms covered, and his shirts should not be tight and made of thicker fabric, so as not to cling to skin. Knit fabrics should also be on the thicker side. T-shirts not acceptable (those biceps, gentlemen). Collarbones shouldn't be visible, much less chest hair. Pants should be at least knee-length and have a nice fit (so that no underwear is showing) but not too tight, because, like you said, "it's just different colored skin".
Women may be less vocal or demonstrative of this, but I personally find this kind of stuff very distracting, especially if the man needs me to pay attention.
Again I'm not a christian, but I'm saying this sincerely, in line with the criteria used in the video. I'm not trying to be ironic or anything, I just wanted to point out that clothing choices in men do affect womens thoughts more that you think.
Matt,
I wish your video had addressed more about male modesty. It seemed like you and Jason got sidetracked talking about female modesty and I must admit as a woman brought up in a anti-body Catholicism I get a bit triggered by this. It wasn’t until later that I encountered TOB at Franciscan, however the demands of modesty that I heard from my brothers weren’t made with humility, they were unfortunately directed with shame. And I understand that that must have been them and their own inability to communicate charitably, but it still hurt my heart.
And in my lived experience (in Giussani’s words I have “verified”) that I can be dressed modestly and STILL be sexually harassed and undressed by the eyes of others. When this has happened it has been when I’ve been wearing a T-shirt and jeans. I don’t feel empowered when I get dressed. I often feel fear of being judged by my fellow Catholics and fear of sexual harassment that I can’t control. And I’m a respectable married Catholic woman involved in ministry and pouring my heart into my marriage, family, and commitments. My lived experience is that I can never please every Catholic and I will always be criticized and harassed no matter what I wear.
I’d like to leave more positive notes for you here, but this video was a truly disappointing -
Though I REALLY appreciated that you and Jason talked a bit about modesty based on context. That seems particularly helpful. For that reason I’ve stopped going to the store in pajama bottoms because even though they fulfill the gag-me-now modesty requirements taught in youth groups, they’re still clothes meant for being in your own bed! Lol
I’m subscribed to your Chanel because I deeply appreciate the work that you (and many others) do for evangelizing the world and sharing TOB.
Please, if you could, take into account what I’ve shared with you?
Your sister in Christ,
Jessica Robinson
Can anyone give me an example of male immodesty? Where men are concerned, cargo shorts and swimwear are about as risque as it gets.
Clothing wise, yes, but speech can be immodest too. Basically, anything that disrespects the God given gift of dignity is immodest. I may be wearing a sweater and baggy jeans with intent to cover up my body because I think it's gross and I don't want anyone to see what I look like. In this situation, I see my body as not worthy of being seen, so I have hidden it away. This is not modest because I'm thinking that my body, which is so good and such a wonderful gift from God, is disgusting and I am not recognizing my dignity. Essentially, I am saying, "I know God said He made me good but I know better. I know I am gross and not worthy of anything," so it is not modest. I know it was a little lengthy but I hope this helped to open up the way you view modesty for both genders. God bless.
this is one of the greater modesty talks I've heard and I've listened to many....so interesting re the founder of the bikini
Modesty is about more than just caring for our brothers and sisters sexually. It's about being respectful of others. I have no right to subject any human being, male or female, to be forced to view my body without their consent. Nudity is an intimate thing, even when it is not the least bit sexual, and should only be shared between people who are both consenting to it. Whether you are male or female, taking your shirt off in a public place says "I don't care if this makes you uncomfortable." Or at least, that you haven't thought about their comfort. Sexual or not. Maybe as a whole, women aren't as "tempted" by shirtless males (I think this is not true, to be honest) but it's still true that I feel more respected as a person when I'm not subjected to another person's nudity against my will.
*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*
@@starhunter9085 after the fall, we started treating each other in ways we aren''t supposed to, including sexualizing each other's bodies. It is impossible to be like we were in the garden, before the fall. That's why Jesus had to come. Bad character is why modesty is necessary. Your comfort may be someone else's discomfort; other people matter too.
@@MrsAngloOrtho *Sexuality existed before the fall. That's why God have Adam and Eve genitals, reproductive organs and sex hormones. That's the reason He brought them together in the first place. This silly stigma that's been placed on sexuality is why people don't understand its true meaning. Also, clothing doesn't inspire anyone to rape you, their hearts do.*
@@MrsAngloOrtho
Yes, exactly. Sin changed everything.
Yes, exactly! Modesty is a virtue that allows you to view the dignity of the human person. When we are modest, we are mindful of those around us, and we view them with dignity. We also treat ourselves with dignity by covering up a little more to help our brothers and sisters in Christ not lust over us. Of course, there are cases where people dress modestly, and onlookers might still lust after that person. Then it is on the onlooker to practice modesty and view who they're lusting over modestly, chastely, with respect, and with their dignity.
So, I have some doubts Is it okay for a man being at home shirtless or walking in the street shirtless?
At home yes. In public no. I personally feel shirtless men isn't gonna be as frowned upon but nevertheless a man shouldn't feel so casual about showing his body
Why can’t you talk about men’s modesty without talking about women? Men’s modesty should have no barometer. It should be absolute. Talk about it without talking about women!!
When I was a little girl I saw those Joe Namath underwear commercials.
That was definitely immodest.
If you wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing it to church don’t wear it anywhere! That includes the beach and the gym. God is everywhere ❤
What about in the shower? God is there too.
St. John Paul II said that you can be modest and partially naked. He used swimming as an example. It's going to be dangerous to wear a dress swimming! Modesty is about your heart, and not drawing attention to yourself. It's not about how many inches of cloth you wear.
The simple answer is yes 😊
You didn’t talk about male modesty
some equate bikinis and speedos. There is a huge difference. Hardly any men by the pool, lake or ocean are in speedos. Most of the girls are in bikinis.
Speedos are more revealing and suggestive than bikinis because they accentuate sexual organs. Female bikini panties simply celebrate the form of a woman's body, sexy sure, but actual sexual organs are discreetly hidden. If beautiful women feel happy to celebrate their feminine form at the beach or in public, go for it. It brings pleasure to all. It's all part of the beauty of creation and part of celebrating womanhood. Now if really obese women want to wear bikinis in public that really stretches the limit of public decency ! But each to their own.
I think this clip didn't hit at all on the title. I'm really disappointed.
This is a women's fight ...let women speak about it.
It’s a mans fight too haha
I completely disagree
of course
When it comes to business/formal dress code, the rules are much stricter for men than for women. Men are required to fully cover their legs and arms. And even a long sleeved shirt is not enough - men should wear a suit jacket over it. The rules for removing a suit jacket are quite strict even on hot days.
Women on the other hand are free to expose their legs, arms, shoulder and cleavage. So I think the title of the video is a wrong question. As far as formal attire is concerned, men have already been pushed to very strict modesty. There is no real gender equality there.
I feel like saying to women “I can be modest. Why can’t you?” LOL
I help my husband get dressed cause he thinks it’s cool to half button the shirt!😡
Yes men should worry about modesty because it goes both ways, we shall not be hypocritical. We usually don’t see it like that but anything goes both ways. We, both genders, shall strive to imitate Jesus. The radiation of sensuality from oneself, is a sin.
"Evolving"????? Oh, please.
Saludos desde Argentina. Por favor si pudieran colocar subtitulos en español
That weird moment, when you realize that both are speaking while wearing headphones.
Fat old geezers like me who wear short shorts & too tight tank tops are the worst.
What about how men dress I didn’t hear any discussion about how men dress? Have you ever walked around in Beach look how men are dressing and tank tops Lou sure it’s bellies exposed where is the discussion about how men are utilizing their body?/
Listen here I'm attracted to women, but seeing one (or a man for that matter) half naked doesn't skew my view on whether she's a good person or not. You not being able to see past someone's appearance is a you problem, and if I can control myself around women and not be a fucking creep, you can too.
Nice mug.
hey look its jacob owens (thebbuffnerd) on the thumbnail
I think the whole nobody causes someone else to sin thing ignores the verse about the millstones. Scandal is a real thing, and the whole nobody causes someone else to rob a store just seems to be a bad analogy. I do like the rest of the video though.
Your cool guys
Or you could all go and live in Afghanistan: they (are about to) have high standards of modesty for both sexes.
I think it's evident that men and women are different and that women are more responsible for tempting the lust of men, not the other way around. Not to be crude, but Eve took the apple.
And who failed to protect her from sin?
It just shows that you are shitty cis hetero man.
And so did Adam. Crazy thing was Adam saw the results of sin before eve saw it herself. Even after seeing the results of sin, Adam still decided to partake of the fruit. Modesty is a responsibility for BOTH sex.
You're essentially accusing women who dress in the way you think is immodest of it being their fault if they get sexually assaulted and that's fucked up
This is just really silly.
Idk it seems like men just can't be a temptation to woman by how we dress so it's not at all the same thing.
Gregory Kotoch I beg to differ!
Women have eyes. Women have sexual desires. It is exactly the same thing.
J Work exactly
This is all so interesting, not only is this the very first time I've ever heard anyone say that men should dress more modestly, it's also the first time I've heard a woman say they are tempted by such things.
@@gregorykotoch5045 as a Christian I've always tried my best to look at a man as a person and not his physical traits. But I can easily fall into objectifying a man and liking him only for his physical traits.
It's very well known women love handsome men, so of course women would love a man walking around with no shirt on too, my friends and I in highschool used to call it eye candy.
Your jewelry in the window of the shop falls short because it's a sin for a woman to dress immodestly. It's not a sin to keep jewelry in a shop window. This guy sounds like a feminist. If women didn't sin first by dressing immodestly, we would have less problems as a culture.
*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be fully nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be sexy, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, character does.*
Idea of Modesty is a joke ???Are you serious? Would you walk naked around your father or friends or family member? God had to kill an animal to cover Adam and Eve nakedness,clothes are important, it protects us from bad weather and cold. So many people die during winter season because of the cold.
@@si_a_to2086 *I didn't say anything about being full on naked. I'm saying that the idea that we have to cover 99% of our bodies every time we leave the house in order to be one with God is ridiculous.*
@@starhunter9085 idea of modesty is not a Joke, you can wear cotton dresses during summer. In Victorian era people used to wear gowns with so many layers everytime. They looked beautiful.
@@si_a_to2086 *We don't live in the Victorian Era any more. We can't base modern day morals off of things that happened hundreds to thousands of years ago.*
Starhunter I have studied fashion designing,so many places people still wear long dresses all day and nobody forced you to wear long dresses everytime, I just gave an example. At work some places,school and during the interview you have to wear wear modest clothes.