5 of the MOST frustrating things ENABLERS say
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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In my opinion flying monkey enablers are just as deadly as the narcissist. Scary people.
... and they just become worse with time, even to the point of taking on characteristics/habits of the narcissist.
They are too spineless to risk becoming a target themselves so they help the perpetrator destroy you. Toss them both out.
they are powerless slaves. look up bleed - meshuggah on youtube and the video shows you exactly this
Yes because although narcissists are responsible for themselves and being narcissist or having narcissistic traits in no way excuses their bad behavior it does develop early enough in life that they cannot see themselves the way other people see them and everything they see and do is seen through the lens of that warped personality. Their behavior is compulsive because it's all they know and it's how they defend who they think they are. But the enablers are higher functioning most of the time even though they may have traits of personality disorders or other problems themselves. But they can think more clear-headedly and they are making a decision to use circumstances to their advantage. Or they are choosing to cooperate with wrongdoing in order to protect themselves or benefit themselves. You know Adolf Hitler was a psychopath and malignant narcissist, but all of the people who allowed him to do what he did or even helped him do what he did were acting in what they felt was their own best interest even in the face of unimaginable evil and damage to others. What they wanted might have been material or advancement or admiration or power Etc. It could have been just self protection but they absolutely chose to obtain that degree of protection at the awful expense of millions of other people. So that's how I look at enablers. They may be bumbling and blind and a wake-up call is all they need because they honestly are confused about the narcissist Behavior. But when you tell them something and they automatically discount what you say or choose not to believe you because it serves their needs then they are just as bad or worse than the narcissist. And even more dangerous because in groups they will support movements and revolutions that can bring about great evil and cultural change in horrifying Direction. Hitler would have been a tiny moment in history without his followers and enablers. Well and the same is true for Donald Trump.
Yes I have known people with histrionic, dependent, avoidant and other personality disordered traits who latched on to the coattails of a narcissist while complaining to everyone else that they were helpless, abused, and trapped by the narcissist. They were in need and they were being manipulated by The Narcissist but they were being supported by the narcissist and that fed and nurtured their own maladaptive traits so that they became more and more dependent and more and more self-pitying and over time even developed additional vulnerabilities that cause them to feel even more helpless. That suffering was very real and everyone around that person felt a lot of compassion about it. But ultimately the self-pity became the overriding emotion and the basis for most Behavior after that. A lot of resentment toward anyone else who had anything that person might have achieved if they had struck out on their own and been successful just grew and grew. Of course they had other issues for example there was definitely some depression there. But their behavior went from being helpless and sad and frustrated to angrier and angrier and more and more entitled and their song became more and more about being abandoned by everyone and everyone else's obligation to support the narcissist when they had barely escaped by the skin of their teeth and we're trying to make a life for themselves in spite of the baggage They Carried Away with them. The dependent person gradually took on traits of the narcissist or maybe they always had some covert narcissistic traits, but by the time the narcissist died the partner had already engaged in all kinds of legal and financial activities to prevent others in the family from inheriting anything on the grounds of being more deserving and also more in need. The sad thing is most of those other people would have gladly turned over or given up any interest they had and inheritance but did not appreciate being treated like they were gold diggers to even think of inheriting anything and did not appreciate the secrecy and the accusations of selfishness and abandonment. Nevertheless most of them love that person and even the narcissist who was probably someone who had borderline and narcissistic traits and some chemical dependency going on. Whether or not they were a full-blown narcissist doesn't really matter because the dependent person is not a full-blown narcissist as far as I know but just had some traits going back to Childhood as well as those other traits. It gets very muddy trying to sort out victim perpetrator innocent bystander and enabler and whether or not you yourself have taken on more than one role or done all you can to stay clean and balanced and fair and as compassionate as possible while maintaining basic boundaries on self-protection. I gave up trying to sort it out and I'm working on just the boundaries and the self protection and compassion and love from a distance. It's my version of gray rock and it's getting grayer, not surprisingly.
Worst enabler statements summerized:
"They didn't mean it."
"They're always nice to me."
"You're too sensitive."
"They're under a lot of pressure."
"They did their best."
In resume, "Let them off the hook; your feelings threaten my status quo."
Yup. Let's keep the peace so we can have our picture perfect image... Ugh.
The did their best is HUGEEEE OMG. This can be institutional as well
@@ScarletBrimstone Perfect on paper, rotten in practice, lol
@@eliaol4231 Then what was their worst? Yikes...
@@WaterNymphie exactly
The enablers who decide if someone is nice to them so they invalidate your experience are equally guilty, because their selfishness and inability to care about your experience is what is wrong with them. What they are telling you is if it does not happen to them, then they just do not care. That is what is wrong with our society now: if it does not affect someone directly, it does not matter.
Agree. If person knows about abuse and don't stands with the victim they are equally guilty.
@@tyyneviljakainen5108 Thank you. Your statement just opened my eyes. I have to get away from these people. Or move, LOL...
"Racism is not common because I don't see it." - White guy in a Western country
You have no idea how close this hit to me, this is exactly what happened word for word. It was so hard.
absolutely! because of the selfishness is why I cut ties with the narcissists family as well as him; his daughter actually broadcasts that selfishness is how she likes to live, his son, carbon copy of narcissist, he taught them how to be narcissists
"Your parents loved you... they just didn't know how to show it." That's one I get tired of hearing.
I guess beating someone, black and blue, is "doing their best."
I hear you....been there, whole childhood.
And I hate that if it was a spouse doing what your parents did, they’d act like you’re an idiot for not leaving. Why is it suddenly okay if parents are abusive???
lai6551 Isn't it interesting? And if kids were the ones doing it to the parents, then there would be hell to pay... even knowing full well that if a kid is doing that, it's most likely being done to them.
@denise3676 I am so very sorry that you experienced that kind of treatment. My heart just sank upon reading your comment. smh Made me think of Pat Benatar's song, 'Hell Is For Children'. I pray that your healing process will be a kinder, more hopeful
experience. 🥲💝
that one is so ridiculous
Also Narcissists do actually treat people differently based on how useful that person is to the Narcissist. Just because the Narcissist doesn't show aggression to you doesn't mean they aren't aggressive or abusive with the person sharing their negative experience. Narcissists are chameleons who become different things to different people to get what they want.
For them its always about convenience, they don't love.... So are the enablers, it's not their convenience to blame the narc have been or is convenient for them, you as abused, are on the wrong side of the world.
100% Correct!!!!
That's the feeling i get when people say they 'adapt to their surroundings '
@@chayo4537 I absolutely agree. It's kind of creepy and has a low empathy vibe.
Absolutely. I've been noticing that rewards/punishments are another more subtle way to use and abuse people.
"That's your mother" doesn't excuse her dismissing my life and wishing she never had me. As the only child, i could never forgive that but i forgive myself for believing it
Damn, that's so mind f-y. Blood doesn't mean they will act like it.
Glad, you can recognize the BS today.
Also only child of toxic mom. It really sucks that "That's your mother", huh? 😬
@@WaterNymphie "blood is thicker than water, only in certain cases. You need to water to live, you learn that in the basics".- Styles P
@@WaterNymphie definitely and I was about 14, 15 when it all came together. I was loyal to a major fault to my mom and it was used against me. I don't believe in trying to ruin her though i could. It feels better to live without that strife.
BOSS: "Well they've always been appropriate with me!"
ME: "Yep, that's because you are the boss and the power dynamic is different."
How do they not get this?
My boss is in an awkward position. The narcissist is a productive employee. Supporting her means no disruption of production.
Enablers are the wind beneath a narcissist’s wings.. sadly and unfortunately!! 😔
My heart goes out to anyone still seeking healing
You can do it
Thank you for your encouragement and compassionate heart. This channel has helped me identify my own part in a toxic, narcissistic, addicted and denial in own family. I was the scapegoat. No MORE. No contact saved my life and helped me heal and focus on the good things that came out of a bad situation. It also helps me focus on my involvement and lack of respect I gave myself because I felt I deserved it.
Thank you.
Thank you ❤️
You will like this one!!!!..he cheates because he never felt totally in love with you ( the wife) when you married 🤣🤣🤣 Oh boy!, where would I be without you. Many, many thanks for clarifying The Law of Mirrors. My brain short circuit trying to understand how could I possibly be "reflecting" serious pathological behaviors
Thank you
My narc mother, told me once.
During a holiday gathering with all the flying monkeys present. They had a big laugh when one of the monkeys said " Oh, her feelings were hurt, again" followed by laughter.
The lot of them got joyous at the idea of hurting another person. Almost, like a sport.
My narc mother got such joy from it, she joyously told me (the target) about the fun they all got out of it.
Which is why I didn't attend and won't subject myself anymore.
If I ever told my narcissistic mother about someone harming me, she would not only say "oh, they didn't mean it," but a sick smile would break out on her face. It's like she actually enjoyed the idea of someone else harming me.
@@mittens4kittens435 Yes! The smile with hint of smirk. It's a sick game.
Take care of yourself.
@@sundown777 oh that smirk...horrible
that's horrible, i'm so sorry man
Donna How horrible! My mom loved to laugh at me. i was a child and did not know a lot of things. Later, the same. She never allowed me to talk. She would mock me, tell me how dumb I was. I have a high I.Q. She would take pleasure, when she got me upset or crying, later as mother myself, I thought, "how can she be happy, hurting me? her own child? " She was gleeful and full of herself.
Same people who call me "too sensitive" also love controlling my speech and actions so I don't offend the narcissist(s).
This is a really important / overlooked observation
Exactly. That's how it works.
@@amarbyrd2520 right, this is the full system. A lot of these discussions don't close the ironic loop, and I'm not sure why. After every topic mentioned, there should always be the disclaimer of, "and then the narcissist will claim YOU'RE doing it."
Narcissists are NOT SENSITIVE ENOUGH. I wish they knew this.
My sister (my brother's enabler & 'flying monkey') constantly tries to control what our Mom says with regard to my brother (narcissist). And then my sister constantly justifies my narcissistic brother's harmful, ugly, abusive, controlling, denigrating actions toward our Mom. In fact, my sister almost seems to taking on my brother's narcissistic characteristics, herself.
Having dealt with narcissists, I'm extremely cognizant of what I consider "the buffer effect." Narcissists *need* to wreck someone. That person is 'the buffer.' I have literally told people (even family) on my way out the door: "With me gone, they're gonna need someone else. You wanna play along with this? Eventually, its gonna be either your turn in the queue; or someone you'll actually want to defend."
Boom, roasted!
After I moved out of my parents place my sister began telling me all of the wild, ridiculous tantrums my mom was throwing over not always having her way. She sounded so bewildered... I was like "are you seriously only noticing it now?"
Of course she was, my mom needed a new scapegoat...
That happened to my brother when I left for college and my mom was back and forth out of state taking care of her dieing father. My brother was young, he wasn't bewildered at my fathers change toward him. My brother just said it was aweful, he was 13 at the time and my sisters were 10 and 7. My heart aches at the thought even though they are in their 40s now. Pisses me off. All 4 of us still love my but for me and my brother it is a love of not getting too close.
How are your people now?
I was always told "oh don't be ridiculous", "you're too sensitive," "that's just the way they are"; "they didn't mean it", and the worst was "it has nothing to do with you" I have doubted myself so much that I avoid any personal relationships.
Have they ever lied and said “they’ve changed”, so and so have forgiven them and have relations, “they’ve changed”, “they’re not like how they were before”
Husband believed his manipulative narc mellow dramatic abusive mother, gave the abuser a chance and nothinggggggggggggggg had “changed”
The abuser(s) are given care blanche to do the most egregious things, but don't you DARE even whisper anything in your defense, or they will all pull together and come at you. Especially the ones who know better, and were abused, themselves.
They will never change, all the promises are a big lying thing, so they can do even worse to your kid's!!!!! Be careful, be educated, get free and heal also for your kid's!!!!
💯💯 it's so dismissive. And I didn't learn that until I repeated the pattern of behavior and married an enabler. I will not be a party to it anymore, and he is free to divorce me if he doesn't like it. My mind is done, my walls are up and they're not coming back down.
@@NF40375and nothing will change , found out the hard way.
I've recently gone no contact with my narcissistic mom. My sister told me, "She didn't do it to be malicious." And "She's done so much for you." As if the things she did for me (normally with strings attached) justifies her behavior.
Hi, I'm in the same situation. A month ago I went no contact with my narc mum. I called my brother to explain everything to him. He said he knows about her occasional bad behavior but that I'm exaggerating. And he didn't call anymore to me but my husband to tell him I'm too sensitive. The same with my dad, he thinks I went crazy. I'm sorry for that, but I'm sure I didn't cause this situation, mum did. But I'm really sorry for my brother, I feel like I lost him 😔
@@katkas.4688 I stopped taking to my mom. for 7 and half years. Peace at last. Then she passed. I said. RIP, as there was none, while you were alive. My dad, kept saying, '"Be nice to her, as if I wasn't"! She caused so much trouble in the family. It still affects me, but I did the correct thing. She would tell stories about us all. "Your dad says or thinks, your brother says or thinks, when in fact they said NOTHING. I would get upset at them. ALL HER THOUGHTS. I am sure she did the same about me. Things I never said or thought or DID!
@@katkas.4688 Your brother, patterns after your mom. my brother is the same way. you have not lost anything. You will have peace. Take care.
Same ! 😐 I spent over an hour explaining to my sister what had just happened to me with my mother and why I had to go no contact. Five minutes later I got a text asking if I wanted to have a group call with my mother for Thanksgiving.. Ummmm. NO ! Guess that was a total waste.
Yup, I’ve heard those phrases before. It’s all conditional. They feel entitled to act how they please because of “how much they’ve done for you.”
Dr Ramani, I am in Melbourne Australia. If you are reading this I want you to know that each day after school drop off I go for a walk and listen to one of your videos. Your work, your knowledge and your wisdom is saving lives. The impact is immeasurable. You are making this world better (even though it's a mess at the moment). You are our personal therapist. Sending love.
She is awesome.
“Our personal therapist” is on point ❤
And I also found doctor Ramani when I was still in school.
Enablers are the worst. I had to cut off my sister for being an enabler of my mom’s abuse.
so did I
Same here 😒
That is truly sad 😔 you don't just lose a mom but a sis too, due to Narcissistic abuse. I'm sorry to hear that 😔 It seems like not playing the game leaves us alone, I'm personally surrounded by 'energy takers' and can totally get what you're going through
My husband cut off his family due to the enabling all the narcs did for each other! Suddenly, their scapegoat was gone and his mother turned on his sister and started scapegoating her. She tried texting him how he was right and she was done, too. Too little, too late.
Same. Sadly.
"Maybe the enabler would have to look at their own life and what's going on around them."
Thank you Doctor Ramani!
I sometimes wonder if the enablers say these things because they are relieved that they aren't the target of the abuse.
That's part of it especially in families of Narcissists
Yes! I have thought the same thing.
It might be! Now that I am low contact with my mother and live far away, my aunt started complaining how my mother is snappy and awfully rude to her. This aunt once implied that mother is now this way because I married a man she dislikes. I told her my mother was like this all the time TO ME long before I met my husband. Only now aunt finally experiences how my mother really is. 🙄 because the usual victim is not available anymore, she lashes out on her own enabler.😉I am kind of glad she shows her true face to someone who was in denial for decades.
Oh this is so well summed up, I often think the same
This is so true.
Society is having such a strong anti human wave of behavior. Too much rotten behavior is being overlooked and not being held accountable.
People do not treat people as human beings.
Also dont ever tell me somone else didnt mean xyz. How do they know? They arent in the other persons head. Call them on it!
I always wondered if it has something to do with post industrialization. Even today we’re still competing with machines and those who are not empathetic are valued to do the “dirty work” and make decisions that a lot of people would consider inhumane in the interest of making profit.
Because bad behavior is elevated and applauded, and behavior that requires having a moral compass is laughed at, ignored, and taken advantage of. Self awareness is a word few know, and even fewer are taught. I had to go to rehab to learn what narcissistic abuse is, how to rise above it, and how to be a better human being than the ones I was surrounded by.
When the abuser tells you they didn’t mean it .... they are enabling themselves 👹🤢
"They're always nice to me."
When I started hearing that, I knew that it was deliberate and a conspiracy. And that I had to leave that person behind, as well as the Narcissist.
Thank you for all your work, Dr Ramani. Your words have brought me a long way.
people are so corrupt. they dont care that a narc is hurting someone as long as theyre not hurting them right?
@@corsicanlulu as long as they are STILL BENEFITING from the narcissist.
The enablers get to enjoy the show and feel glad it's not them getting bullied.
conspiracy, lol, as if somebody would organize against you, let alone more than two people. i think it's way more likely that somebody just doesn't like you (in their narcissistic way).
Bingo! It makes us afraid to share, it can actually harm victims of abuse. Worse than "they don't mean it" is "maybe you have done something to deserve this?" It is only safe to share with those who understand. Thanks for offering the right things to say when a friend shares a bad experience. That's helpful to make us more empathetic and compassionate.
Exactly OMG it's why we harden ourselves, blame ourselves, put on the "I'm strong" and "I'm tough" goals and then even when we get good at this we apply it to others because, well, we don't want to be exposed for being the same way. I feel shame for being this way and I've been unlearning it for years now through extensive therapy and it's been WELL WORTH IT.
@@LisaPFrampton Share with us, those who understand. I wish I could offer more than words of encouragement, and that we understand how hard and how crazy it is to cope with this.
The message I got from my dad was "what your mother really means is that she loves you." So abuse=love...
Yikes 😬
Same happened to me
Same happened to me, and I raised to be an enabler. It took me til adulthood to understand the toxicity of that and to put my foot down.
Thank you!
It's astonishing how incredibly accurately you describe my family experience. At 54, after my narcissistic enabler's death, it all hit the fan.
The lipstick came off.
"Oh, she doesn't mean it"
"Oh, get over it"
"She's just tired"
Good grief, it's like this species all went to the same narcissistic school, with the same text.
I've had the same thought with the narcissists and the enablers ... Do they all go to school for this!? They all say & do the same things! It's insane!
Yup. Sometimes I think Dr. Ramani grew up with my father.
But yeah, they all say the same things.
I have found that many of the most egregious enablers are themselves victims of narcissistic abuse. They have simply responded to their abuse by retreating from reality and by trying and trying to make everyone happy. They are stuck in their own victimized nightmare. It doesn’t excuse their enabling, but I can understand where it comes from as well as be infuriated by it when I see it happening. I am learning to gray rock them as well as the narcissists in my life.
I have seen this too. Sad.
100% they’re humans trying desperately to be rugs
They're completely dissociated. If they acknowledge your experience they open Pandora's box on their own life.. and that's not an option for these people. Or so they think..
yeah my ex therapist enabled my narcissistic and emotionally abusive mom’s behavior (and my dad’s), by saying that the emotional abuse I endured was “on me.” as in my lack of “communication” led to the emotional abuse. I quit her after that session and I’m so happy I quit her.
Same here. I was also gaslighted by my therapist and it was all my fault that people treated me badly. Never saw him again.
so many people are pro mothers, always seen as nice people
Sounds like the therapist enables their own narcissist in their life.
My therapist at ages 12-15 was the same way.
An ex-therapist? Good grief! Thank goodness you quit her then. My therapist was a little invalidating with my feelings, telling me to not get mad at my enabler relative. On the flip side, she was the one who told me to move on with my life and to not personalize anything.
P.S.: Any therapist telling you how you should or shouldn't feel is a bad sign.
My now-deceased step-father made excuses for my narcissistic mother's bad behaviors. Now she's all alone & SUDDENLY she 'loves me so much' and wants a relationship with her only child. No, thank you. I'll pass.
Describes the family dynamic I married into. My MIL told her Son, my husband, "I don't have have a mean bone in my body!" (This was her attempt to influence her son that me, his wife is too sensitive). When my husband repeated his mother telling him she doesn't have a mean bone in her body. My reply, "That's true!" My husband was surprised! Then I said, "There are no bones in the tongue!"
Excellent 👌🏻 😂
haha nice one
Brilliant!
Really wisdom here in thr present dialogue
Good one!
You sound like my kind of Wit!😊
What’s funny is that I spent a good amount of time being told that I was “too sensitive” when things were going wrong. This coupled with a narc mother in law who was also trained as a psychiatric social worker made life kind of nightmarish. Loads of gaslighting between her and her son and her son and me. Terrifying when they are TRAINED in the areas of mental health and wellness and then proceed to WEAPONIZE what they know. It is cray cray!
@Monique Rosewood especially when it comes to careers designated to helping under privileged people/ children and or minorities. To them it’s a feeding ground.
One of my favorite posters I have says “I’m not too sensitive, you’re an asshole”
Yes my mother was a nurse and frequently threatened to poison me/ murder me using her medical knowledge.
Has anyone ever had a narcissistic psychiatrist? You can imagine the feedback I got from people: "But he's trying to HELP you! He's a therapist! Don't you want to get better?" Then I went online and looked up patient reviews of this doctor. WOW. What an eye-opener! Review, after review, after review talked about the exact same things I had experienced, the arrogance, the shaming, the bullying - and how their family doctor, who had referred them to this idiot, kept saying, "But he's the best we've got" or words to that effect. You can be on two-year wait lists for these guys. I am NOT criticizing people who actually do their jobs, but an arrogant, abusive psychiatrist is in it for his own supplies. And it happens. It's among the worst, because their life's work is supposed to be helping vulnerable people. (Just thought of a little vignette to illustrate this: he didn't use a computer at all but scribbled on a pad, and spent most of the session hiding behind it and writing. One time I asked him, "Could you please look up?", and he said, "Nah, keep talking. I do this all the time.")
For years I was scared to even talk about this because I was made to feel like I'd face eternal condemnation for even talking about it, but now i have more courage than ever.
My older brother abused me badly during childhood, mostly during my pre-teen & teenage years. Almost every time I cried for mom to help, she blew me off. I began to fight back against him, my mom then blamed me for everything that got broke. I threatened legal action against my brother for his abuse and mom threatened to have me arrested instead. I rebelled against mom at age 13 because of her reluctance to hold my brother accountable for his behavior, her & dad had be committed to an insane hospital.
I knew then they'd NEVER hold him accountable for anything he says or does. They tried to years later but he physically fought back against them, and they've been silent about his behavior since. To this day, mom still makes excuses for my brother and tries to paint me as the problem. In 2012, my brother left home for the army. I was excited when he left because it meant I didn't have to endure his abuses anymore. It was so freeing to see him leave. I almost cried tears of joy. He returned in 2014, but he still hadn't abandoned his old ways. My parents still won't go against anything he says or does.
Somebody in high school told me my brother is mom's golden child. I didn't know what that meant at the time, but since finding this channel, I have learned things I would have never learned anywhere else.
I thank you Dr Ramani for helping me come to a better understanding than ANY of my past therapists. Thank you.
That golden child thing sucks 😞. I hope you can free yourself from that situation.
I had a Golden Child sister. I still hate her, and my dead mother.
I'm glad I was adopted. My people had to be kinder, and smarter.
@@dadsfreetimeclassicgaming1220 I'm saving up $$$ to move out, but the bills just keep coming
Wishing you well and hoping you financial success so you can be free.
@Where is Your Humanity? I don't hate my family, I just wish they behaved differently
The Narcissist / Enabler is a One / Two combination punch that one has to duck & weave.
It's infuriating when the enablers tell the Injured party" stop rocking the boat ", "stop being a troublemaker ( Truth teller),", or in my case " stop talking about it ", when They asked "what the 'problem' was, in the first place "
".. Stop talking about that, you are obsessed" it's terrible to hear that instead of a minimal support word.
As an adult I went to the same church as my mom. I was very messed up in childhood...CPTSD...due to my alcoholic, narcissist step dad. He beat the shit out of us, belittled us and laughed and called us snivelers. When I shared about my mental health in church, my mom shamed me. She enabled that abuse..lied in the ER when it was really bad. But I'm the asshole for sharing our business
It just happened here now in the comments when the topic of RACISM was bought up 😀
"Oh she's just worried about you." is another one.. in response to stalking and constant checkups when you might be out enjoying yourself too much
Towards the end of my grandmother’s life she told me I would just need to be “the bigger person” when it came to dealing with my dad’s narcissistic bully of a wife & their hateful daughter (GC). Wrong, grandma! Wrong!!! That just told me she knew all along how sick & dysfunctional the family is. She also took part in her own narc games.
My husband was told to be the “bigger person” with his narc manipulative bad influence daddy
My husband was told to be the “bigger person” with his violent mellow dramatic older brother
My husband was told to be the “bigger person” with his narc alcoholic verbally/emotionally/physically abusive mothers husband
He became the “bigger person” alright as the youngest of them all by removing his presence and going no contact with all 3
@Fifi La Fleur I heard the same thing along with “she doesn’t mean it” from my grandma regularly. Shortly before grams passed, through therapy, I realized EVERYONE in the family knew what was up, didn’t want to deal with it, and had no problem allowing me to take it for half a century. Went no contact with the entire lot.
Dear fifilafleur, Your grandma was obviously unable to change the toxic people around her during her life. I feel sorry she had to dismiss her feelings when around all those monsters till her dying day 💔. The only thing she knew how to do was suck it up and be the bigger person as she called it, a very sad way for her to have to live. But before departing this world she passed the only way she could survive onto you hoping it would save you 💔. RIP Grandma 🙏.
oh I use the hear that growing up - that I needed to be the bigger person or think about what they are going through that is causing them to take their anger out on me.
oh I use the hear that growing up - that I needed to be the bigger person or think about what they are going through that is causing them to take their anger out on me.
This is so frustrating and true. I have family member who I've tried to warn of the harms our other family members have done to me, and her answer was, " well they never did anything to me, so I'm not going to avoid them." Avoidance wasn't my intent, it was her physical safety as well as freedom from the stress of being constantly charmed only to be robbed when she let her guard down. But, I guess she has to learn the hard way.🙄
And she will eventually. Without you to take the heat she will start getting some.
Let people learn on their own. You warned them once you did your part.
This experience you're sharing, it cuts so deeply for me. I feel you. The frustration is so real, especially when a part of you cares about the enabler, yet you care enough about yourself to walk away. Neither staying, nor leaving is easy. I wish best of healing and inner strength.
"You mother is so nice" - the number one thing my nmother's flying monkeys say. She has a spare room, I tell them. Call her up, stay a month or two.
I heard "they did their best" and other phrases a few times from my sister in response to my mom's behavior. I still remember when I was a preteen and the three of us were going grocery shopping. Once we were done, my mom yelled at me for not getting the items we needed quickly enough, for being "too slow" when putting our items from cart to the conveyor belt (whatever it's called), etc. While waiting for the taxi our mom left us so she could "cool down". I vented on how awful she was acting but my sister mentioned my mom's backstory and how I should be grateful to even have a mother when ours was abandoned as a child. Ngl my mom had a sad backstory, but that doesn't justify treating me or anyone that way, that's what I think now though. At the time I internalized what my sister said and just assumed I was an ungrateful brat and our mom had every reason to yell at me.
Good thing I'm an adult now so I shop alone. Sometimes my mom will try to force us to shop together but I shut it down every time. Now I just need to get away from both of them.
I hope you do. Whatever is best for you. Many victims become victimizers/abusers themselves. It is easier to spiral downhill than to ask for help, and change.
I feel ya. Someone in my family would keep telling me to stop crying cause the narc is a "good person." When I kept crying, they yelled at me to shut up. It was creepy. Glad I went no-contact with at least that enabler.
Stay strong, take care of yourself whatever that means to you - I have had to go 'no contact' with first 1 sister (the narcissist) and just last month the other sister (the enabler). It was so hard to even think of this just a few months ago, but honestly now that I have no contact, I am not ruminating about their of them every day - my husband keeps reminding me that I have to take care of myself - I leave you with that too.
I grew up with a verbally/emotionally abusive narcissist sibling and enabler parents. Haven’t talked to any of then in about 3 years and my life is a lot less stressful.
Thank you for helping me to protect myself against enablers and to check myself on not becoming one.
Anybody with a narcissist is an enabler by default. So anybody complaining here are just contradicting themselves and think they're slick
@@chayo4537 Sounds like you’re going through a lot. Best wishes to you.
Yeah, I've mostly stopped saying anything to anyone, and that has actually helped me be strong. For decades I tried to get some support emotionally and was met with enablers. One day I stopped and relied on my own strength and my solid stand in reality. Oh boy, what a change! I think it's because I'm an empath and not hearing enablers helped me to stop empathizing with the enablers.
This is great insight. It's hard when you just would like a little validation but never get it. I think you are right. Better for us to trust ourselves. We know what we know.
You are so brave and I'm kind of getting to this point.
My parents are enablers towards my narcissistic sister.
Anything I say is always downplayed or they say "she's done something positive so let's just see it as it is" or "she is stressed out due to studying"
I've come to your conclusion that not even discussing it with them anymore is the best thing for me, as I look like the crazy one.s
Me too. I was very desperate to find someone who listens, a relative, a family member, a classmate, a friend… literally anyone that listens. And then I got a lot of judgment or statements that just angered me and I am even guilty of lashing out to those people in anger because I was too hurt and frustrated. But then I realised it’s a lot more exhausting than just saying nothing. Ideally you what to get support group, but sometimes you just don’t have anyone. I would vent to anonymous sites/pages, but that too got tiring (although it did help big time).
@@jomassey4207 I had the same issue but instead I would vent to my sister about my narcissistic parents. And this too would be so annoying as she always found a way to defend them. Now I just let it go, I talk to my sister and have relationship with her without letting my anger towards my parents ruin our relationship (because it did for a long time).
This really hit home. People definitely do not want their sleep like state disturbed bc maybe they might be experiencing abuse themselves. Many people will excuse horrific behavior just to keep their marriages/families together, all the while being treated like a trashcan.
Exactly. Thank you
Even worse, kid's will never reach there potential they would have in there Future, without a Narcisst!!! /
My sibling targeted me and only me. She was decent and kind to everyone else. She’d say to me know one will believe me and in the end will be called crazy. I learned to completely ignore them in every way I could to keep safe. The only reason the abuse stopped is because they got married at age 22 and moved away. I learned to no longer make any statements to my family members because they adore them. So to me it feels like I don’t have a family.
I relate to that. Same with my sister. Same with a friend.
Same here as well. I'm the family scapegoat and just found out now all the consequences I'm suffering till today believing it was my fault...
I'm so sorry you were treated like this. I am without family, too, as my narc siblings ghosted me after I tried to talk to them about how they have hurt me. But, you know, we have a solid ground to stand on now. Facing the reality of the utter lack of love, care, and empathy means we no longer have to live on the shifting sands of the self-gaslighting necessary to maintain such toxic relationships. There may always be sadness and hurt somewhere in the background, but there is also the incredible possibility of getting to know who we really are now that we are free of the distorted reality of narcissistic invalidation and put-downs.
i´m sorry
Knowledge is power. 😊
My sisters said this to me about my narc ex! They didn’t want to see him as the bad guy. But it was okay for me to the bad one because I wouldn’t forgive him or give him another chance. I no longer talk to any of them. Worst and most painful betrayal
My sisters and parents all did the same thing.. i left everyone.. they are still "good "friends..
@@armigs same here. They have him over for dinner and socialize with him all the time.
The same thing happened to me. I told my sisters that they sided with him over me! They said that they didn't, but they did pick him over me. Truth be told that my family wasn't all that great before I got involved in a bad marriage. I got married to get out of the parents house. I went no contact from all of them and am finally happy. It wasn't easy at first but worth it in the long run.
I willl join the club, same with my mother and sisters. My mother talks with him often, even though I have gone no contact with him and shared some of the abusive things he did to me for decades. Heck, she witnessed his rage towards me many times. And, my sisters still accuse me of being the one who was in the wrong. Even though they both have been in marriages to abusive narcissists. Whatever. I have minimal contact with all of them.
@@lydiaanderson824 it's a shame. I don't think that all families are like this. Maybe some families are normal. I hope some families are normal.
My personal favorites?
"Well, that's just the way they are."
"My parents abused me, but I still forgave them and we have a great relationship now. No reason you can't do the same."
second one is like "well I live in denial and I'm fine so you should do it too", except that they probably aren't fine
@Oana Enache chances are they're an untreated Borderline such as my mom who inevitably repeats the cycle with their kids 🤪
Ugh !! “that’s just the way I am”… This is what my mother-in-law said to me when I confronted her about treating my children differently than the other grandchildren. She would buy the other grandchildren, fast food, when they were with her in the car but would ask my children if they had any money to pay for theirs. 😐 my children were all under the age of 10 at this point.
The thing is that I’m smart enough to know that abusers are nice to everyone except the person their with. I don’t invalidate anyones experience. I got rid of any enablers don’t need that kind of friend.
My favorite is, "That's just how he/she is.'. Okay, well the way I am is to not put up with it and get the heck out of the toxic situation.
Thank you Dr. R for this wisdom . My biological dad told me that forgiveness is more important than accountability. Smh. Ie: I should forgive him for never being there for me and let go of the past and move on. I’m now 45 and a mother myself. I won’t let him gaslight me and invalidate my feelings and experience . It never changes with these people.
What? He made that up!
@@saturdayschild8535 it’s sad but true. And he see’s nothing wrong with his logic. Smh. God is my father.
@@ca7117 As a child, my father used to say to me on a weekly basis, "You're a good kid, no matter what anyone else says." So, my little brain kept wondering: "Who hates me?" I'm sorry that you've had to go through this. I'm 63 and still trying to figure it out.
"Forgiveness is more important than accountability". "I can have bad intent toward you and you must forgive me each time I scheme and hurt you".
According to karma, forgiveness follows accountability. I swear change in behaviour is the best apology.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
10,000 likes here! The one statement that was like a gut punch was "They did their best" because that's the common excuse I hear from my siblings about our childhood. We're all in our 50's now and still unpacking the things we went through. My sister became and alcoholic and drug addict, the brothers had their own issues as I do as well. Now, being a parent I am trying my very best to avoid the same problems that I endured. I hope my children won't have to say "he did his best" to justify some of the mistakes I have made.
I hear it from my own parents.
It's infuriating when you know it isn't true because if they had done their best they'd have made some kind of effort, ANY kind of effort, to improve once it was brought to their attention that what they'd said or done had hurt you (repeatedly) ... but we all know that never happened 💯
THIS!!! It makes so much sense. The outside gaslighting and invalidation can be just as bad as the actual abuse.
Another one that enablers do is shaming with ‘’what a victim you are’’…& in this culture that’s a put down!
Thank you. This was very helpful for recognizing enablers. Enablers are as toxic or even more toxic than narcissists. It is extremely helpful to recognize who they are and what their motive for doing that is. When you can scrape together enough knowledge, you’ll be able to distance yourself from these people somehow and find a healthier existence. Thank you for being one of those sources of knowledge Dr. Ramani.
And dont forget the, "No one's perfect. We all have faults." Which is true, of course-- but it's so crazy making when talking about a narc, especially.
Thank you for making me see I'm not crazy
You talked about intent. But I personally feel that my narc dad intentionally don't want us to be independent, and works day and night to make it possible. Like picking on a fight with my mom a day before the exam day or lashing out on us , taking casual rests just to pull off his plan, demotivating us,forcing us to pursue careers that we don't want ( once attempted to break the laptop when we rebelled) but takes utmost care that we couldn't achieve more than him. We are girls and he is also misogynist, and is jealous even with our slightest achievement like being able to talk in two languages ( which is quite common in today's gen in my country). He delays his refresher trainings just to spoil our exams.
And yeah all these things are enabled by my mom. "He is paying your bills"
"He is working so hard for you all"
"He is your father, he wants you to be successful "
" all parents love their kids, it's the kid who doesn't care about their parents "
Narcissistic people DO mean it. There are oblivious people who don't mean it. It's hard to distinguish the two. Sometimes if I'm having trouble discerning what kind of person I'm dealing with I try to come up with other explanations and see if they fit.
It is technically impossible to determine whether they “mean it” or not and it doesn’t matter. That doesn’t erase they pain they cause. The difference is shown in how they take the feedback. Do they take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again? Are they accountable? To me that’s where the biggest difference lies.
Don't know what I would do without you. Thank you for all your content.
I just recently had that said to me " I choose to believe most people are good ". It's crazy making to have your whole Reality denied .
Wow. One could also 'choose' to believe that gravity doesn't exist, but that won't stop them from falling down. Our beliefs don't alter reality. Stay strong in the face of such nonsense!
I had a reverse of one of your examples. A narcissist friend of mine (I only realized they were one after years of being used) was trying to “take down” a professor for giving them a bad grade and placing them on an improvement plan. I had never seen or heard the claims about the professor other than those being proffered by this particular friend/student. However, I was expected to stand up for her and go to bat for her in front of a review panel. I was silenced in the reverse way of the example you portrayed. I realized years later that I was a pawn in her game, to retaliate against someone that “injured” her, but was actually doing their job.
those kind off pressures make people show their real character
My sister is the epitome of a narcissist. She is condescending, constantly corrects and belittles you, invalidates you by saying “who cares?” After you have expressed your feelings/thoughts as if you’re making a big deal out of something that doesn’t matter. What you say, feel, or want literally doesn’t matter to her. Rather than call you “insensitive”, she will tell you that you “nitpick” at everything she says after she has just insulted you. Obnoxious, a know-it-all, completely lacking in empathy and very controlling and has a tendency to speak over you. She also has a complete personality shift in front of strangers and acquaintances and can be very charming all the while, will tell me I need therapy and that’s why I’m single. Wow, I’m literally floored by your description at times. It’s so accurate it sends chills down my spine.
This describes my granddaughter. She's only 12 and I don't know how to help her 😔
It's the same people that turned a blind eye to bullying in school or even joined in to feel apart in the group. They only react when the status quo has been shattered and the bullied person stands up for themselves.
Double standard here we are supposed to believe that the narcissistic person "did their best", meanwhile your best is never good enough for the narcissist.
that happened a lot with my narc mother, when she would beat me people would say she did her best, but when i had a "bad" grade (meaning anything less than 95%) then there wasn't any "you did your best", there were only severe punishments
You know what they say about enablers / people who sit on the fence : be careful!
because you’ll end up with a sore arse and you’ll eventually fall off.
I’ve heard and watched my husband’s family do this for 10 years between my husband and his brother who he has zero relations with (they were doing this prior to the 10 years).
He finally severed all ties with no contact with his relatives aside from two. I’ve been trying to tell him, those two are informants; one to his biological mother and the other to the his biological father. He has blinders on and doesn’t want to believe his entire relative unit is one massive pile of 💩 he wants to believe these two are “cool”, “care & love him”, “are on his side/neutral” etc etc blah blah
I’ve given him examples of how they’re informants, he acknowledged it but still converses with them.
I told him to act accordingly, keep his private life sealed shut and barley give them any information aside from “all’s ok”, “work’s good”, “you know….work, home, errands, not much.”
let him realize on his own. We sometimes have a weakness for certain people.
My husband and I both tell each other this same message. To back away from our families of origin. We're both the oldest in our respective families and had to learn to live with our parents and siblings.
My husband is the Prodigal Son and I'm the Scape Goat who married someone better than myself, according to my family.
I like that...informants. Very accurate. The informants just keep allowing the gates to hell to keep reopening. Exhausting.
@@cymbolichuman433 I did previously and they committed the ultimate betrayal
Now here we are with the final two
Their actions are clear with a documented history to prove it
You would think after the betrayal
He would be the definition of no contact or silence
His mother is using her younger brother/his favorite u come, the one he was closest too to get him to spill his business for gossip and manipulation
The father is using the cousin because he’s the sole individual from the fathers side he speaks to that reports to the father for the father to use for gossip and manipulation
I don’t play games and I’m cut throat
Zero time for bs
@@sherrypopiwchak7896 informants, mutiny, treason
These words exist for a reason and the definitions point to certain individuals
I ain’t with these types, see right through them and my light rocks their darkness
I kept warning my husband, warning after warning after warning until I had to step back and zip my lips. He got betrayed beyond betrayed and learned by getting burned. Now these two last informants
Even when all it takes is to flip a page of a book to prove your point - these people still wouldn't because they'd rather live in their own la la land than face up to any responsibility for their part.
I really wish I had seen these videos before repeatedly going to enablers expecting it to be a safe supportive space , it was quite devastating to get these responses and really did a number on me but this is so helpful to making sense of their reactions, helps with the self doubt/blame and reinforces not trying to convince them or expect anything different. Validates that I was right to remove myself from that unhealthy space and to only talk about it with the people who "get it" and I am lucky to have at least one person who saw what was happening with clarity and has helped me hold on to my sense of reality in face of so many trying to warp it to protect both their self identity and their relationship with the the narc. It also makes me reflect on how I can better be there for others in the future and hope this experience helps ensure I wont give enabling/minimising responses to someone else.
The higher wisdom from all this education for me, is to beware those who take pride in playing others.
My mom was/ is a perfect enabler. She has done nothing to protect me and my siblings from an abusive father, who was otherwise "such a good provider". 20 years after my dad passed , she began to question my memories of him, painting a perfect picture in her head and dismissing my experience all together. Moreover, as you said in your last segment of this video, I was ready to find as many excuses as there are available to explain my parents' "methods" of raising us. And I would always put my feelings last, distrusting myself, keeping "good memories alive", etc. This is not healthy. Every time my mom comes to stay with me and my family, I feel this rage, hurt, dissatisfaction with myself even though I truly am happy with my husband, my work, my child. I couldn't understand why she still has so much influence over me by just being close. And she never takes my side, never voices her opinion when i could use her support. And that's something I still can't forgive. Her silence and her manipulations. Thank you for your video and examples. It's tough. The older I get, the "heavier is the burden".
My situation wasn't nearly as bad as yours, but my father was a horrible person who I think eventually trashed the mental health of my mother and sister. The point is my mother & sister have completely rewritten who my father was and how he treated all three of us. I was the primary target and they were secondary. They simply dismissed anything I said that didn't mesh with their rewritten version of history. Yeah, they're not talking to me. And I know my life is better because of it.
I’m am so sorry you had to go through it. Sounds like a very similar situation. Thank you for sharing.
I had a marriage counselor act as an enabler. I found out that my wife had a long term relationship during our marriage, with a boyfriend she knew before me. While I was trying to explain the impact on my children and me, He told me that most of this was just in my wife's head. In return I felt he was not listen to what happened, or being upset about it, was only because of what was in my head.
How horrible I'm so so sorry for you living through the devastating relationship with your wife, and that horrible counselor!!
@@rachelrivkadvir8725 Thank you I hope someday more people will come to understand narcissim
This is an excellent video! I realized that I have unwittingly enabled a narcissist in the past. Thanks to you I will practice my speech patterns so that I follow your advice.
From now on I will listen and ask questions about other people's experiences instead of trying to share my own. Like you said I may not have had enough contact to share a negative experience yet. However, listening and understanding what they are saying will help me in the future in case I do see what they've seen from the narcissist in question.
I have enabled narcissists before myself. I discovered that I was repeating the same enabler programming I was raised with as a child. I was told to be nice to everyone and never upset anyone. Then, I gave too many people an excessive benefit of the doubt. Yikes. When I was on the receiving end, past my limits, it finally hit me that there are done unredeemable people out there. And it isn't my job to fix, excuse, nor put up with any of them. Victims are rarely believed or validated. We are taught to be too nice in many cases.
good summary :)
Fragile ego+coward=abuse...❤❤❤
I am a "delicate little flower." That's the slur. Thanks Grandma, I needed that on top of my crushing depression.
FYI... I was raised by a narcissistic mother and am just realizing my dad was one also, but didn't have a hand in raising me. Thank God. I wouldn't have survived💜💜💜
My mom is the enabler. My mom doesn't want to see my wife as a bad person. For me it has nothing to do with my wife being a good or bad person. I only care about the narcissistic abuse and getting away from it. Most of time, I try to explain the abuse to my mom, and my mom tells that it's not that bad and forgetting all the other abusive situations that I told her. The only person I can talk about this is my therapist. Before this situation, my mom and I had a real close relationship. I just can't trust her anymore.
A few months ago, (I'm 58yo) I discovered that my mother experiences joy from the harm that started with my birth & my father's doing. Tomorrow is my birthday &
A major thing i encounter is “well you’re not qualified to classify someone as a narcissist”
This combo-phenomena confounds me. When the narcissist at work or in the family tell stories about me people take it at face value and believe them immediately but when I tell stories that are true not lies about them everybody says well they've always been nice to me or are you sure that's what he meant? Etc etc. How come they don't say to the narcissist while she's always been nice to me? Because it's true. Why do they believe the narcissist and doubt the truth teller?
You know sometimes you really do believe that people do things because they really don’t know better… and maybe that is true sometimes. But narcissists and their enablers can be incredible actors and they both know exactly what they’re doing, and they both think they’re the smartest. Once in a blue moon, if you hang around them long enough, they’ll actually divulge this….
Thank you so much for this 💗 I have experienced this in my family. Finally was able to remove toxic members from my life but narcissistic member blames me and protects the abusers. This is great advice .
Holding on to my reality is the essential path forward to healing. WOW. Just WOW. ❤
It's ok to say it, as long as it's followed by, "but I believe you! I'm so glad you told me so I can be careful with that person"
I agree Dr. Ramani: Don’t try to convert the enabler! I do have to remind that person sometimes of my boundaries. And sometimes I find myself slipping into proselytizing. I want to stay out of that ditch as best I can . . .
My Narc’s mommy was his greatest enabler ever! She even swore in court that her son didn’t drink. She knew better because she failed him out of jail over and over. 😊Thank God the Judge didn’t buy it and took his visitation away.
Oh yes . They will lie about things that are public record . It’s quite interesting actually . Why would you lie about some thing that literally other people could see is false ? 🤷♀️
The narcissists masking is exactly what shows me their intent. If a person can be nice and not be abusive to everyone except for me, that means they know what they are doing and are intentionally abusing me. This helped me stop making excuses for bad behaviour or abuse and gaslighting myself. Enablers also make a person feel so isolated and it made it so difficult to leave the abusers.
Beautifully timed. I'm going to Church in a little bit today where most of my friends and Bishop there have been exactly these enablers. I particularly liked the statement you made about the enablers often being worse, and why that is. My soon-to-be ex's family, friends at Church, and Bishop I really admire, are all people I deeply love and loved me deeply even. And yet I'm writing this because it's like you said, in one sense, the abuse from enablers may be the most heavy trauma now. The trauma beyond the narcissistic relationship abuse has been not only losing half the people I deeply loved, but seeing those very important friends turn against me and determinedly protect my abuser (beautiful woman who's an extremely talented liar with waterworks she can call on demand). Even with as extreme as my case has been, and even with her being professionally diagnosed, most don't want to hear about it, can't understand it, won't understand it, and challenge me seeming to suggest that as a man (it appears) that I'm hiding the truth or being the narcissist when they already knew my always kind, never lying, empathic-to-the-death character. So the pain of losing the confidence and close relationships of the people I loved is worse than insult to injury, it's sabotaging my whole world of loving relationships, and seeing them stand with the abuser against me in some of the most extreme ways leaves me basically like deer in headlights. I'm holding on to my reality like you said and have really thorough evidences, but I'm still traumatized by the fallout in all my world here. Thankfully, you, my mother, one friend that's been through the same with his wife and professionals, and my Savior all get this stuff perfectly, and that's been my saving grace. Oh, and if it couldn't be worse, like another previous video you shared, both psychologists we had were enablers that seemed to be holding on to education from 25+ years ago focusing primarily on her past trauma/pain and "communication" techniques instead of the research you and others have done. They are gaslighting to me, and are doing a disservice to technically both my wife and I. Thank you a million times over Dr. Ramani!
Adam, don't give up or keep beating yourself up. Remember that we are taught at church to look for the good in others, so it can make it really hard for outsiders to understand what you are experiencing. They are trying to find the good in your narcissist and have no idea what mind games are being played on you. I know the feeling, my mom had people at church convinced that I was a horrible daughter and so cruel to her. I was 20 years old and not living in her house. Thankfully my Bishop saw through her and encouraged me. He also counseled me to stay away from her.. I am an old lady now and realize that I don't go to church for others, I go to worship my Savior. And if and when I am in the crosshairs of another narcissist, I remember that they eventually get un masked. Just be patient. Remember that the Lord loves you.
@@pgray5223 Thank you for your experience and words. I'm right there with you! After watching this video and probably because I'm fasting today too, I felt an unusual strong sense of clarity and peace. I ended up feeling mostly like my normal happy self even, which was crazy cool. I also noticed that when I played the organ today, taught the youth, and didn't slander my wife when people asked about her, that those who know the false narrative seemed to have a little cognitive dissonance; and my hope is that they challenge their own beliefs and start seeing the difference eventually. But if not, I'll keep going forward and listening to these videos, 😅. And thank you for the comment on the view of outsiders.
LDS? Run.
@@littleme3597 there is good and bad to all religious organizations because at the end of the day they’re just people, If someone finds peace in their beliefs then who are we to judge?
You must be LDS if you are the women just know you aren’t alone, the church always rally’s around the abuser.
Saying harmful things and then framing it as “just teasing.” I got a lot of ridicule from adult relatives growing up that really affected my self esteem, and they got a kick out making me angry or cry. Then would say, “aww, I was just teasing! I didn’t mean it! You’re too sensitive!” 🙄
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
I can't believe people stoop that low
It's a bitter pill to swallow but when they dhow you who they are BELIEVE THEM
@@catherinepraus8635 yeah, unfortunately no one believed me lol (well it's funny strangers do, not people I've known for years, go figure. Now they all support the narcissist)
After listening to your talk, my doubts and confusions are cleared. It feels like I have a good listener or someone who understands me or has validated my points. All those gas lighters and enablers. You have said the exact words . You have hit the target.
When they say they've always been nice to me, I say well, abusers generally don't advertise!
Not saying or doing anything at all tells me all I need to know maybe calling them out directly isn't a good idea but I wish they would at least say something to the person that was being hurt by their words that silence tells me everything that I need to know
In my limited experience with narcissists and their enablers, those who enable do it for 2 reasons: one is for self-preservation, to avoid being targeted for narcissistic abuse or bully that those unfortunate are suffering for; the other more vicious one is to enjoy the sight of people suffering and watch the world burn around them. Purpose? To ease whatever pain, emptiness or disgruntle they have inside. Enablers who are used or beguiled by the narcissists are actually very very few. As for those willingly, intentionally enable, they almost always do it while acting innocently with eyes wide-opened and a subtle, friendly smile on their face, to either conceal their bubbling curiosity and excitement, or to appear not-in-cahoots with the narcissistic abuser(s). Enablers are often also very narcissistic themselves, just more covertly. That's why they are drawn to the narcissists and assist them with their abusive acts. Birds of a feather.
These willing enablers are sometimes rampant in my culture, they are equally disgusting and harmful as the narcissist, and should be treated with the same level of caution in my opinion.
You nailed it with the covert part. I personally noticed that the enablers in my life were intensely codependent. Deep abandonement issues, full of mental gymnastics. Others were actually narcissistic themselves. Just not as grandiose, more quiet about it. Until you got up close, that is.
This is exactly what I needed to hear this morning. I'm dealing with this in my family. My Mom has done this to me quite a bit when sharing my abuse & seeking love & support dealing with my narcissistic ex husband. And, she has actually been negatively in affected by him financially in the past. She invalidates my words & experience.
I'm a retired high school English teacher in the southern US. We have a few different subcultures here, and they each have specific speech patterns, though we may all sound the same to people outside of the South. --and sometimes I prefer them EVEN when they aren't grammatically acceptable because they come closer to the core meaning being communicated. One of my favorites is, instead of saying, "Get away from me," to someone who is annoying, the person might say, "Get from by me."
Another is a warning about unkind (narcissistic) behavior that is turned into a shorthand expression to remind those repeat offenders, firstly, "You've overstepped what's acceptable ALREADY before," and secondly, "This is becoming a habit that no one likes."
The situation will be something concerning saying something hurtful, usually narcissistic, and generally intended to get a laugh from everyone. The person and/or the others present will react sometimes in only a non-verbal way. This is followed by the perpetrator saying, "I'm just playing!" sometimes adding, "You know I don't mean it." --or as Dr. Ramani points out here that there will be one or more enablers who will say or echo that sentiment.
Then either the person attacked or someone else present will respond with, "You play too much." From that time onward, any similar behavior from that person (usually a narcissist, in my opinion) is met with a "serving of side-eye" and the comment, "Ya play too much."
It doesn't always "cure" the narcissist, but it does at least somewhat limit their impact, and may give some more self aware persons a chance to avoid proceeding too far down the path of narcissism.
I keep letting someone make statements like " I feel sorry for her"... or "I'm in the middle". I really do not want to allow this person to keep invalidating me. Yet, I have trouble communicating how this makes me feel. They simply do not care about my feelings.
Nope, they truly don't care, you are right. In fact the only time they will"act" like they care is when your response (to their cruel intentional invalidation/shaming) might make them 'look bad' to others.
Why would or should they care.. if you don't?
I called an enabler out and said stop being a flying monkey, you're being manipulated and used. They didn't like it one bit but I bet they'll back off telling me to speak to my abuser. I also said let that person fix what they broke it's nothing to do with you
Wow. I just had an epiphany. I was telling a friend about a narcissist at work who was bullying a lot of people. I talked about standing up to this person for the first time in my life that I have stood up to a narcissist. Her response? "You love to stir things up." I have spent the last few days trying to unpack that. Was I stirring things up? What? Watching this made me remember how all these years she has said things like that pretty regularly whenever I have tried to climb out of my susceptibility to narcissists. She doesn't know them but her history as a child of an alcoholic has given her enabler habits. She jumps to excuse and protect the abuser. Now I know not to talk to her about these things.
oh no that is not a true friend
I’m sorry, I hope you get away from her because she sounds like a B too. You deserve better definitely ❤❤ and thanks for standing up for others. I do that too whenever I see someone getting harm. But ironically you end up being the “problem” for stopping the problem.
I have the "you only have one mother" statement because I'm no contact and the enabler wants me to get back into contact just because mother "cried on her shoulder telling her she just wants to see me". Why do people not see the manipulation from such toxic people?
Same situation here. There’s no way I’m going back for more . Mother has put it out there that I’m having a mental problem. Well .OK . Whatever . I’m fine with that.
Honestly, enablers scare me. They act so innocent. But the truth apparently is, sometimes… they actually don’t care, or may even wa not to manipulate you. Sometimes, if they’re happy, then under the right circumstances they’ll spend money on you or be really nice- but… they don’t actually care if there’s a real problem. They’re not real friends, and in the end, if they can get something out of hurting you and get away with it they will. That has been my experience. They’re more likely to try to change your mind so they can control you and they don’t like to be as aggressive as a narcissist, but they’ll team up with the narcissist as long as you’re the target and not them. Of course they are stung eventually by the narcissist, but that’s probably related to how much you put up with, or another victim puts up with, and they just continue their joint efforts at abusing people together using their individual methods.
"put lipstick on a pig" had me laughing out loud 😂😂😂
I remember someone was worried I'd hear things from others and it would change how I feel about her. I told her that I know how our relationship is and what others say won't change that. Others did say things... I listened. I didn't end up having a good experience with those others later.
Kind of convoluted but you know the narc is about to be exposed when your friends start hearing things about you that are clearly untrue. When the narc gets no reaction the lies get more outrageous and they end up exposing themselves.