What if Bruce Lee knew Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Let’s explore the romanticized notion of Bruce Lee as a submission grappler.
Shanghai based MMA Coach and Kunlun Fight Combat League ringside commentator Ramsey Dewey answers questions from the viewers.
Thanks to the channel sponsor, No-Gi BJJ Gear. Use my code RAMSEY10 for a 10% discount on everything at www.nogibjjgea...
This video features original music by Ramsey Dewey
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*"What if Bruce Lee knew Brazilian Jiu-jitsu"*
*My Brain:* BRUCE-ilian Jiu-jitsu
Clever response
Absolutely amazing response.
😂
i like your brain
Lol
I feel like its pointless trying to speculate how he would perform in these hypothetical scenarios. We'll simply never know because of his early passing. Especially when people try to speculate whether or not he'd be a top contender in MMA today, we have a hard enough time predicting who'd win between current MMA fighters, in which we have tons of recordings of them fighting. I'd say it's better just to respect him for his efforts and accomplishments while he lived.
Well said! I agree!
Yea but its safe to assume that he wouldnt do well at all because clearly he didnt have good technique in grappling and hes a movie star. I liked him because of his movies. Hes not an actual fighter.
@@Dragondude30 If you resurrected him right now and put him in the octagon, then yeah sure it's pretty safe to assume he wouldn't do great. But if he had time to learn and adapt to the level we're at today, who knows? He could be sub-par to excellent for all we know.
But he talks about and mentions judo and jiu-jitsu in the Tao of jkd....
@@stephanwatson7902 but he didn’t have a clear understanding of it
Ramsey, I don't disagree with your assessment of Bruce's grappling abilities, but I have to say that I feel like you are doing something that a lot of martial arts commentators that I've heard from recently do, and that is over-stating the prevalence of grappling in martial arts in the US before the 90s. Yes, there were certainly high-level judoka and wrestlers in the US during Bruce's time, but:
* The notion of wrestling as a martial art, while ancient, seems like it's only coming back into vogue in the US in modern times with the rise in popularity of BJJ and the UFC. I trained in 2 different traditional martial arts throughout the mid-90s and early 2000s, and in those times, no martial arts instructor that I knew would have said that wrestling was a "martial art". Wrestlers were acknowledged for their athleticism, but ultimately, wrestling was considered "just a sport".
* Judo was and still is anemic in the United States. This is coming from someone who trained judo and loves judo. The fact of the matter is that the judo community in general and the national-level promotional organizations (USJA/USJF) in particular have and are still doing a piss-poor job of promoting the sport. The US has never won an Olympic gold medal in judo in men's competition, and we only recently won gold in women's competition thanks to Kayla Harrison, who is younger than I am , in spite of the fact that judo has been an Olympic sport since the 1960s.
Another thing I take exception to is your remark about Lee being a "one-eyed man in the land of the blind", not necessarily because it's not true, but because of the implication that Lee was sort of doing his thing in a tiny epistemic bubble, and that the vast majority of American martial artists knew about the effectiveness of grappling as it applies to the martial arts. You say "the point karate crowd" as if that was just a small group of people, but my impressions from having been in the martial arts community for a long time is that this group of people actually made up a significant majority of the group of people who called themselves "martial artists". In another video you did, I think I remember you saying something about how the early UFCs weren't groundbreaking because the world knew about Sambo. But Sambo all but didn't exist in the US until recently, and is still not widely practiced. Same for catch wrestling, which everyone seems to like to bring up in conversations about BJJ.
In a nutshell, I just think a lot of these arguments about "people always knew about grappling" are the result of looking back at the way the martial arts were with modern eyes and the benefit of hindsight. Jesse Enkamp was also guilty of this when he did his video with Superfoot about how the Gracies "manufactured" their early UFC wins by not inviting a large number of grapplers. Again, in those times, few people acknowledged that grappling was important to the practice of martial arts in the United States, so the fact that the Gracies "only beat kickboxers and other standup martial artists" was still significant, because at the time, nobody would have believed that that was possible (except for judoka, who again, were not and still are not very influential within the "martial arts" community as a whole and wrestlers, who would not have been interested in competing in a niche and potentially-dangerous sport when there were Olympic medals to win).
In the UK for over 30 years we've had samvk karate etc and most incorporated grappling we have a lot of judo and jiu jitsu (Japanese) with the rise of mma we have more mixed gyms and bjj gyms. Many countries have shown the view of ramsey with grappling etc perhaps the US was slow on tree uptake until mma kicked off, I don't know. From my own experience sambo was not uncommon neither was kickboxing and people mixing those disciplines with wrestling or jiu jitsu and now recently bjj judo has always been common to practise over the years. I think some of these view points depends on the country your from those trends and the view of martial arts and its appeal etc
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878
" _In the UK for over 30 years we've had samvk karate etc and most incorporated grappling_ ..."
You could learn "grappling" in most traditional martial arts dojos here in the United States, as well, definitely 30 years ago, and to be honest, probably ever since traditional Asian martial arts have been taught here. My argument isn't that no one in the traditional martial arts ever thought to grab on to someone until _Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in Action_ came along; my argument is that very few people in the American traditional martial arts community practiced it with any sort of regularity, or to any meaningful level of proficiency. I learned "grappling" at both of the dojos I attended as a teenager: I specifically recall learning what judoka know as _morote seoi nage_ when I trained Shorin Ryu Karate, and I trained small joint manipulation when training long fist kung fu. But we never practiced against resisting opponents (sparring/rolling/randori), and just drilling a move against a compliant opponent every now and then does not do anything towards making you able to use it in any setting where the other person can resist what you're trying to do.
" _Many countries have shown the view of ramsey with grappling etc perhaps the US was slow on tree uptake until mma kicked off, I don't know._ "
I wasn't entirely clear about this in my original comment, but my remarks pertain specifically to the United States. The US is where both Ramsey and I grew up, and the US traditional martial arts community is the one Ramsey's talking about when he talks about Bruce Lee spreading his ideas about martial arts.
" _From my own experience sambo was not uncommon..._ "
That doesn't surprise me; I've heard that sambo is a lot more common in Europe. However, it's still very rare here in the United States, and it was even more rare here pre-2000.
" _...I think some of these view points depends on the country your from those trends and the view of martial arts and its appeal etc_ "
Agreed. Like I said, my remarks above pertain specifically to the US. Before the early UFCs (and sadly, even today - just check out most of the comment sections on Ramsey's videos), if you brought up grappling to most "martial artists" here, they would just hand-wave it away and say that they'd groin-rip/eye-gouge their way out a grappling situation if they found themselves in one in an actual physical confrontation.
I just finished reading the novel "Tanar of Pellucidar" from 1930 by the author of Tarzan, Edgar Rice Burroughs. The protagonist is described as being trained in "the art of self-defense", namely boxing, wrestling and jiu-jitsu which he uses for combat, not sport. Seems like wrestling had a much different status a hundred years ago.
Thank you for this comment. It shows that you remember a lot that many people fail to even research. Also, Bruce Lee was an amazing martial artist who quit teaching martial arts to focus on his acting career. Bruce died like 50 years ago. We have no idea what he would have done. We can only ask his wife and remaining students.
Bruce Lee understood the importance of grappling, that wouldn't have made him an expert: I understand the importance of footwork, yet I'm flatfooted
It seems that submission from ETD was intended to be a crucifix finished with a neck crank. Right at the 2:38 the ideea was to trap the left arm of Samo with his (Lee's) legs and then to imobilise Samo's right arm. Something like this
ruclips.net/video/WI3GzPI06Lg/видео.html
Goodridge did chose to strike, but here yeah, the submission itself is too complicated and strange and nothing really stops Samo to simply let his body fall on either side.
We can only speculate on how good Bruce Lee would have been as a mixed martial artist, but if his work ethic and discipline is any indication, he probably would have done well.
You make a lot of good points that I completely agree with, I especially love the analogy of the one-eyed man amongst the blind. To further this point, until the Gracies became more well known and then created UFC, there were literally no well-known forums where fighters developed fighting in a realistic environment anywhere. Even many of the grapplers and wrestlers of the time doubted the efficacy of their practice and flocked to develop the mystique of the striking arts. Bill superfoot Wallace was an experienced wrestler before learning karate yet still grew to believe grappling wouldn't work on his fast kicks. The only martial arts news was in magazines and it would be full of article after article of "deadly masters" touting the efficacy of their art in a real fight. Incredibly, despite mma, this silliness continues today.
Bruce Lee, above all was obsessed with fighting, he devoured everything he could and was constantly in the process of breaking down not just the martial arts community's dogma, but his own. His departure from wing chun and exploration of other arts was due to it failing him. The one principle he and his art is most epitomized by is the infimaous: Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is uniquely your own. But he was still limited to what he was exposed to. If Bruce saw what the Gracie's were doing he would have salivated like a starving dog and immersed himself in that practice. Unfortunately he died at 32, 32! Given what he accomplished in that short time, I have no doubt that he would have been at the forefront of MMA development if he were alive today.
The current JKD is an affront to everything Bruce Lee was, they have yet to reject their useless practices and have followed in the same idiotic practices traditional martial artists do.
The tao of jkd pg118- has sketches (often dif names) of, leg locks, heel hooks, armbars, neck cranks, Guillotine choke, short choke, Bulldog choke, calf crushes, the Twister
While the concept of grappling and throws was shown on media pre-Bruce Lee and while athletes like Jack Dempsey promoted cross training, the concept of cross training wasn't really something that many casual audiences in many countries thought about and still wasn't very common in Hollywood movies.
From my experience, I can confirm that despite Judo and wrestling being practiced sports here in Egypt, many casual Egyptian and other Arabic speaking viewers assumed Bruce Lee was the first to propagate grappling and throws and cross train on film, more people in the region know better now but back then that wasn't the case.
So either way, Bruce Lee highlighted this concept to a number of audiences that weren't familiar with it even if he was sloppy at it himself and who knows maybe he could have improved but we'll never know for sure because he died suddenly.
Also out of curiosity, what makes you sure he would have dismissed BJJ has being not fit for the "streets"?
im so glad your sponsored, you deserve it.
Bruce lee knew JAPANESE culture well- he knew about Ju Jit Su- his philosophy was learn as much as possible and keep what’s good delete what’s bad. I think he would embrace JJJ
Interesting. I have thought about this and had concluded it was a strong probability, like Chuck did, that Bruce would have seeked out the Gracies if he had heard of them, likely before the UFC. And after seeing it's effectiveness in a full roll scenario, I think there would have been a good chance he would have obsessively trained in it. You have to remember Bruce was trying to unlock the most effective techniques from all the arts, although he was flawed individual, this seemed to be his main drive. Regarding his grappling abilities, yes they seem kinda primitive. One reason for this could be that he did not train that much in live roll scenarios or newaza, so did not have correct technique due to not actively applying and thus just not knowing. Regarding having a limited arsenal, I think he probably didn't place that much importance or did not realize fully the importance of grappling at this time, like is more commonly known today. Again philosophies evolve, and I believe JKD was fairly primitive in it's overall development. I watched Firas Zahabi comment on this in one of his videos and I agree with him. Personally I believe there was a good chance he would have dropped the "trapping hands" techniques too, which I think he had more of a personal love for, after observing it wasn't really that applicable in combat or full contact testing scenarios.
Lol I laughed so hard when I saw Bruce lee try whatever the fuck submission he thought he was trying to do.
I love how you made a whole video about it. I was just being devil's advocate to a point.
Although I will admit that I don't know the *exact* extent of what Bruce did know or didn't. I'm gonna just take your word on it as being largely academic, it seems likely. The amount of material on grappling that I've read from anything related to Bruce is limited to say the least. None of the modern charlatans seem to even know it exists.
I agree with everything said. It’s historically correct. I would just add that when he was “preaching to the point sparring community” he was preaching that point sparring and traditional martial arts were not effective “in real life.”
Coach, ill make you laugh, the way of the dragon in italy was called: "l' urlo di chen terrorizza anche l' occidente" which translates to "Chen's yell terrorizes the west also" it sounds so much better in Italian but the translation is goofy as heck
🤯unagi!!! Always good nuggets of enlightenment from you Coach!!!
Thank you Ramsey very much for the truth, so many people continue to say and repeat So Many ridiculous claims and complete ly false statements and stories about Bruce with absolutely zero proof or evidence .l could give a million examples but I think that most real people who have wrestled ,boxed,kickboxer,done BJJ, or even been in a number of real fights on the street will understand what I'm saying that movie acting and even light friend ly sparring is Not actual real fighting
I saw a chat between some ex JKD guys reminiscing about the days before bjj when they trained with Bruce Lee's disciples(Inosanto?). They mentioned that they had some dudes in their sparring group with a bit of japanese jiu jitsu experience and some judo. As far as I understand the tradition for training those at the time strongly de-emphasized any kind of ground control. So it sounds like he and his community had an awareness of some subs but didn't really have any experience with control positions and especially not *TRANSITIONING BETWEEN CONTROL POSITIONS to open attack opportunities* which is the real core of BJJ.
They didn't have a clue that the guard was a thing and a platform from which to mount attacks. Even Gene LeBell from what i've seen(only clips so who knows) didn't work transitions between control positions, he'd basically go straight to the most accessible control position from a takedown and bail if it wasn't working. The control positions he knew from wrestling weren't tied into a system of submissions, so they were all very compartmentalized bits of technique. To me, that's the critical part which really makes bjj what it is vs the other grappling styles and made the impact on the martial arts world as a whole.
Ohh dang I forgot about those scenes. Especially the gillitene.
2:40
That one is a bad example guys...lol
As a jkd instructor myself, I don't believe that Bruce would have considered himself to be an expert at grappling by any means. I do also think that he would have loved a lot of concepts in BJJ as well.
Bruce lee was black belt level judo and trained in bjj. He writes about the importance of it in his books. I believe that one of his students was a black belt in judo and bjj and that student said in a year bruce was better than him.
Bruce Lee never met a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in his lifetime. Last year, a picture of dubious origin started circulating around the internet of Bruce wearing a judo black belt. According to Gene Lebell, they only trained together in judo for a few hours, and Bruce’s understanding of judo was very rudimentary.
Nice video bro
I like and appreciate your respectful yet realistic approach to Bruce Lee
Well, I don't think much of the fighting going on in Bruce Lee's movies were meant to be super realistic. This obviously also applies to the grappling in his films. It was meant to look cool on film. I mean, his first student, Jesse Glover, was a very good judoka, and they trained very much together. I think it's safe to say that he was no bjj-master, but I do think he knew a lot about grappling.
I'm sitting here talking to myself at the end of your video about getting that skull and crossbone rash guard and then you say now get out there and train and I think to myself immediately today is Thursday it's actually BJJ day while at the same time being weight resistance rest day. 🤗🥋
And you know now that you mention it I could see him being dismissive about jiu jitsu especially back then because that was before UFC 1-5 proved that Jiu-Jitsu can work. I personally believe that if he didn't dismiss it and actually studied it that he would have been amazing at it because first of all the man was strong as all get out. And while strength isn't completely necessary relatively speaking it definitely helps if you are a BJJ practitioner and stronger than the other BJJ practitioner you're rolling with.
Anyhow thank you. 🤗.
Seriously if you ever get an opportunity to come to Seattle you should let me know we could go visit their burial site together.
Hey ramsey, in the B roll footage at the end after the no gi bjj shout out, what was that roll you did from top quarter guard? Was it for a back take or leg entanglement
I got a question would Taekwondo work in MMA if the person just trained in kicks?
No. MMA is a whole lot more than just kicking. Signed - a third degree black belt in taekwondo
He's got leg locks, neckcranks, armlocks, chokes, the Twister, Gi chokes, all written in the Tao of jkd and here we nitpick one move from a movie! Irksome!
to his credit he did do a keza gatame in game of death against kareem abdul jabbar , its last fight in his not finnish movie ended with
a judo pinn and it was his last move ever before he die .
May be you should show how these ju jitsu are doe in the movies
I don't think he was an expert grappler, but I also think 2 things: one being that ppl often assume what bruce did in the movies was how he actually fought on the streets or in duels. Second that his style of fighting stemmed from his experience in TMA and street fighting, cause he did do street fighting when he was younger.
Most mma fighters do combat sports. That doesn't de legitimize it, but the focus and circumstances are entirely different. In my opinion, ppl on both sides get defensive about it and by extension bruce lee because it counters each other's experience and no small amount of ego. Which bruce really had.
Send any jkd "expert" to any average muay thai gym for a street fight and all "experts" will be badly beaten.Sorry but its a fact.
@@gangstaman2069 Has it happened? Link's, documents. It's not fact unless it's tangible. Otherwise it's ego
@@jessmith7324 exactly, there's all that myths and stories about Bruce lee and yet there's no single tangible proof of him as a real fighter.
Who said he doesn't ?
No evidence of that
How do fighters like Alvarez train to dodge punches
Finally! A technique question!
Learning to slip punches and Bob & Weave is a skill set all boxers need to develop. The methods are simple, but it takes a great deal of time over the course of several years to internalize.
What do you think about Dan Inosanto being a Machado BJJ black belt and still teaching Jeet kune do?
Why wouldn’t he?
@@RamseyDewey Well I guess he is sitting on top of a pretty big empire. I think it's crazy how quickly JKD became outdated though. For something that sounds petty good in principle. I've often considered what Bruce Lee would have thought about where it has ended up, basically as just another dogma, kinda like the classical mess he talked about in interviews.
@@RamseyDewey I also dislike the idea that Bruce invented MMA. There are plenty of historical examples (even from within wing chun) of people cross training between styles. It's all a it of a crazy celebrity mess I think.
@@WCGMartialArts , turns out that JKD became a McDojo around the Bruce Lee cult and not a reliable MMA style. I think it is because BL was surrounded with the point style Asian Traditional Martial Arts crowd. Those guys that BL walked with kinda sucks and they did not make a serious job with JKD, and very much probably if Bruce Lee was alive it will remais exactly the same thing, because Bruce Lee was not different from his friends.
There is fair criticism of some BJJ stuff not really working in a no rules combat situation. Like butt scooting like you got worms. Which doesn't work so well if you can just get soccer kicked in the junk. For context im a BJJ blue belt so this isn't coming g from utter ignorance.
First the movies shouldn't really be any indication of really anything because you have to appease astatics that's sort of why I'll grappling in movies pretty much sucks secondly I think you would respect Brazilian jujitsu because it's a lot like one of his movies coming to life in away and he loved to trained and thirdly a kickboxer appeared on Joe rogan's podcast and actually talked about something taught him I can't remember one
What if Batman had Superman's powers?
I mean he did train with Wally Jay, the guy who brought small circle jujitsu to the United States(before the Gracies) he wasn't a master of it but he did recognize its importance to being a complete fighter, Love your vids Ramsey I've been a fan for a few years now i love the information, wisdom, and philosophy you bring to the art of fighting. Keep it up and get out there and train!
The 'What If' series.
Bruce Lee was an amazing striker because that's what he practiced and honestly would be more likely to put Muay Thai into his arsenal than BJJ but assuming Bruce did practice BJJ on a regular basis, he would likely use that knowledge in a way that worked with the arts he already knew.
Now this got me curious. Who do you think would win in the octogon? Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan?
That move that he did on Samuel hung actually comes from catch wrestling
That’s like saying Master Wong’s horribly butchered RNC choke “comes from BJJ”.
It’s a badly done attempt at a crucifix with a crude approximation of an armlock.
@@RamseyDewey Master Wong's RNC comes from da streetz
I wonder if they did it wrong on purpose in 24 out of social responsibility, so not to teach it. Rear naked choke is dangerous if you aren't responsible with it. Against someone who has no MMA knowledge it's easy to implement and if you hold on even just 30 seconds too long it's very lethal. But may be I am giving the writers too much credit. They probably just were ignorant of the technique like usual. I feel the same way when they script gun fights.
If you constrict the carotid arteries for 30 seconds, you’ve already killed your victim a while ago.
@@RamseyDewey Exactly. But someone who knows nothing about MMA probably wouldn't think 30 seconds is long at all.
If Ramsey interviewed Bruce Lee, who would win? 🤣
Hé is the King of Kung Fu ....... but if hè had learn jujitsu ........ King of Martial arts.
If I end up fighting with Bruce Lee and I end on that position... I will surrender... just in case hahaha
If jkd has some credential we would have see it in action.There's no anbody who affiliated with original jkd that have left significant mark on any combat platform since 1993, whereas jiu jitsu has proved itself in many occasions.People don't wanna face the reality and accept tha fact that Bruce Lee wasn't what they thinks he was.He was an actor martial artist, nothing more or less.
Good Point. If Bruce Lee was actually a good fighter, Jeet Kune Do would be probably the best fighting style in the UFC, but in reality it is a pure trash IRL. All the JKD fighters that tried got defeated very easily in the early Vale-Tudo matches, UFC and K1. There are no JKD fighters in any fight organization those days. He made a useless McDojo fighting style that only survives from his cult. Probably he would never be able to make something good even if he really tried hard, just because he was an actor, not a fighter.
@Flush Abesei yea, they will Bruce Lee me to death :)
@@aluisiofsjr so true, people don't understand that Bruce lee was primarily an actor since the cradle, and his upbringing was among parents who were actors.He also was a very talented actor which he presented very often with his strong and charismatic onscreen presence.His biggest credentials was that his last 4 films were a benchmark in action movie genre, something that was never seen before .He was ripped, very athletic and he was into martial arts, all of that was a major boom at the time.Needles to say that he died to young, specially after enter the dragon when he established him self as a big sensation, which have bring more to his myth and urban legends.But the truth is that his interference with joe lewis, chuck norris was just a marketing move, the same thing happened when steven seagal "teach" Anderson Silva or Machida how to fight.
I remember when you were less than 5k subs. I always thought so many people are missing out on good content. Glad you're getting the recognition you deserve 👏
love the Brucey vids. I thought it was about time for another one.
You can show techniques without killing your partner ? (looking at a pile of corpses in the gym) How ?!
Judo Gene LeBell taught Bruce Lee some judo but people need to remember Bruce Lee is a striker
I may be wrong but did bruce not do judo as a child? just some rumor I heard so its entirely possible this is incorrect.
@@handcraftedgetget2918 I don't know they're a lot myths about him so I couldn't say for sure
Handcrafted get get why would it matter if he did or didn’t as a child?
He did train with LaBelle snd there are pictures of him training with a judo uwagi and black belt
@@handcraftedgetget2918 Bruce Lee as a child learned a little bit of Tai Chi from his father, that was the first martial art he learned, before his father send him to the Wing Chun school of Ip Man at the age of 13. The judo he learned was from Gene Lebell, later while he was developing his Jkd.
Hello Brother Ramsey.
I just want to make some comments
I remember seeing the Enter the Dragon move in a diagram on wrestling from the 60s . If you watch the actual scene in the movie you will observe that Bruce Lee raps his legs around Samo Hungs left arm before grabbing his right arm. It is some variation on the Crucifix.
I like and respect both you and Joe Rogan but both have made the mistake of stating that Gene Lebelle taught Bruce lee Judo. Bruce Lee met Gene lebell in 1966 on the set of "The Green Hornet".
He learnt Judo and Jujitsu techniques from Professor Wally Jay in 1962.
If you look online there are photos of Bruce in a Gi.
The truth is he would pick the brains of anyone he met who had martial arts training.
He trained WITH Chuck Norris, Danny Inosanto, Gene Lebell, Jhoon Rhee and numerous other people he ran into in his short life. As far as his grappling in movies goes Gene Lebells quote may explain that -
"Bruce loved to learn grappling, he ate it up! He said that people would never go for it in movies or TV because the fights are over too fast and most of the good stuff was hidden from view." .
The so-called real fight is a demonstration of some principle.
Figuratively speaking Bruce Lee did not write a book called "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do".
It was published 2 years after he had passed, put together by somebody else from some writings he wrote while recovering from a back injury and it should not be taken as his complete thoughts on Martial Arts.
Jeet Kune Do is not a style of Martial Arts, it is a philosophical approach to fighting.
As he said in his English speaking interview on The Pierre Burton Show from 1971
when you are talking about fighting you have to train everything so that if you need it, it is there.
P.S. With all due respect to the Gracies, they did not invent RNC, Armbar,Guillotine, etc, etc they have been
around a long time. There is nothing new under the Sun.
Respect - Umar K
Mr. Miyagi's nose honk would be considered a submission if you throw in the towel.
Oh, here we go again. Bruce Lee was a man of his time. I'm sure if Bruce Lee lived in the MMA era he'd be the first guy incorporating these techniques into his fighting style.
You right!!!!
Bruce Lee *DID* discover the value of grappling. He understood that it existed and had potential to be very dangerous when used well. He *didn't* master it, or gain even significant proficiency at it. But he was aware of how useful it could be in combat and that put him a good few steps above his contemporaries when you consider people who were skilled in striking-focused martial arts. Nowhere near to the point of modern MMA fighters, obviously, but he had the groundwork to recognise why such techniques worked and valued the martial arts which used them.
Hello! Bruce Lee, tried to learn as much as he could in the time the information about martial arts was hard to get... imagine Bruce with Internet as we do now a days... but that was no the case hehe... Bruce greatest legacy is about philosophy... in my opinion.
In today's world, Bruce would probably not be a remarkable character. What he tried so hard to do, people can do fairly easily these days, his legacy resides in being one of the first, and not the best as people tend to think.
@Baba Ed Maybe, but it's hard to say. Kickboxe movies are past their prime, but would they even have been so big without Bruce in the first place?
@@marcellpc
Bruce would be one of the top martial artists today because he would have so much more to study from and learn from.
Facts are facts.
@@DumphUxTV How is that a fact? It's just your guess. Maybe he would, maybe he would be overwhelmed by the much higher competition and his somewhat limited physical capabilities.
2020 and people still talking about Bruce Lee... see? Philosophy.
He didn't like to be touched according to Guro Dan. He would never have consented to being tapped hundreds of times in order to learn BJJ. So Mr Dewey is correct, it was incompatible with his way of thinking.
I dont think so, pg 118 jkd has armbars, takedowns, grappling, he said to have more than one takedown, AND he learnt some judo from Gene Label!
100% and I saw Enter the Dragon as a teen.
Love Bruce as an actor.
@@stephanwatson7902 he learned some but would he go through it hundreds of times when he was particular about close contact, unlikely hence why he only did a few sparring sessions and only learned a little from Gene rather than learning from Gene for years to truly master the art
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878you also have to think that Bruce and Gene met 7 years before Bruce's passing plus in that time Bruce wasnt famous and successful so he put aside a bit of martial research to dedicate more about his movies. Who knows maybe after being successful he would've dedicated time to learn proper Wrestling and Judo and a bit of bjj late in life
@@arthemas8176 Bruce Lee had actually started studying judo and jujitsu years before meeting Gene. In '59 for judo - first under a student of Fred Sato, then under Sato himself at University, and in '64 for Small Circle Jujitsu under Wally Jay respectively. After learning some judo from Gene, Gene himself said that Bruce Lee told him he used a hold that he learned from Gene in Way of the Dragon. Bruce Lee actually considered judo to be very important part of his JKD, wanting his son Brandon to learn this first. He continued to learn it from others, such as Hayward Nishioka until his death. Hayward Nishioka has said that although Bruce had no ground game, he was very good at everything else.
So I’ve seen an interview with Dan Inosanto where he talked about Bruce’s grappling experimentation and the wrestling was not contested. He did talk about Bruce enjoying clinch and pummeling stuff though but calling things like body locks, trapping the arm instead. I think Bruce would’ve loved BJJ but I 100% agree that he would say it went against the goals of what he himself was trying to accomplish with his art and probably wouldn’t teach/use much of it.
Question: How would you choreograph the classic One person beats up a gang of fighteres? Would you try to justify a hand to hand only method or maybe include more improv weapons in like a jackie chan style of fight?
As always, great video man, hope you survive the wave of hate from the Lee Cultists 😂 (disclaimer, I love Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do, plz dont come for me)
I think the most realistic would be: run around for 40 minutes so everybody will be gassed out. Assuming you are a high level athlete.
Ran away, let the fastest one to get you. Take him down. Get the foot, toehold. Get up, ran away before the others catch you. Let the fastest one to catch you and so on.
@@katokianimation lol i was going to be that guy to say a firearm with full auto but i like your answer way better.
@@AdobadoFantastico i thought the question includes hand to hand only.
Your version was actually done recently in Joker. The train or subway scene. I don't remember if it was a train station or subway.
@@AdobadoFantastico lol, yup that would probably solve the problem!!
Its so improbable that one person can beat up a gang of fighters... limited field of vision of all your attackers at the same time makes you vulnerable from multiple angles, unless you got a super fast reaction time. I think Coach Ramsey would say. "How would I choreograph that fight..... Simple, I wouldn't be in that position and choose to walk away... too many variables. and in DA Streets its too complicated of a landscape, just don't be in that position ."
Great breakdown Ramsey, however as a Bruce Lee fan since I was a little guy, I'd like to hear more about why you felt Bruce would write off BJJ to the degree you said he would. In his lifetime, he seemed pretty dedicated towards combat-applicable arts, and I've always felt (although I have way less knowledge than you) that Bruce's fight scenes rest much more strongly on the plausible/believable side of martial arts movies. Even with the spotty or flat out wrong details in his grappling, the fact that he ended many of his major fight scenes with grappling at all, in an era where much of the competition had zero grappling at all, still gets respect from me. I personally think he was on the path to incorporating more of it, and in middle age, after seeing the first UFC, would've gotten relatively into BJJ. That's just me.
Sorry for the text wall, but if you're still reading (or even started at all), what do you think of the grappling shown off by Donnie Yen in Sha Po Lang/Killzone and in Flashpoint? Also, what film in your opinion has had a showcase of the most solid grappling?
@Rambo Doesn't really relate to my comment. Also, mixed-style matches weren't nearly as common back then.
@Rambo Meh, not really. Not a lot of evidence to support that. Weren't you off in Nam with Colonel Trautman then, anyways, John? Since we're talking about Bruce Lee, he probably wasn't aware of and didn't run in the circles of any niche style vs style matches that were going on then. The whole point of UFC, in North America and in the mainstream, was to have a unified place for different styles to compete, now it's become its own thing entirely. You'll probably keep trying to claim the martial arts scene was the same as it is now 48 years ago, but I gotta tell ya John, I'm not gonna be reading it.
@Rambo Really? Mixed-style matches were very common in the late 60s & early 70s? Can you point out some verifiable evidence of that being true, particularly where Bruce Lee was, in the U.S. ?
Bruce lee doing gator rolls in his grave.
HE TOOK from every form of fighting that he felt was good
When training in different styles was frowned upon.
Except for grappling
@@artygunnar False, Ramsey even says he dabbled in grappling more than most fighters in his circle at the time. Did you watch the video?
Bruce would have been listened to today. He would have to defend his words more.
Bruce lee's power, speed, endurance and flexibility is very unique. Clearly, Bruce Lee would have learned all the today's new techniques, and invented new ones too, since he was ahead of time, it makes sense to say, in today he would have still been ahead of his time, his philosophy was the best and would have been at any given time. clearly you have to compare apples to apples, if Bruce Lee was alive today, obviously he would have learned the new advanced techniques and would have been ahead of everyone. Jim Kelly who was also a Karate Champion stated Bruce Lee was "untouchable"
. "Bruce Lee is a Killer" - Mike Tyson
ruclips.net/video/6e6LwQqYd_4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/k2XV431fblk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/o-UFao9LYjw/видео.html
Personally, I think that Bruce Lee would have taken the time to learn wrestling properly. After reading his books and watching his movies, I could tell that he was very disciplined and a life long student. It might have taken a wrestler to spar with him and show how effective it is for ground fighting.
It seems like that nowadays there are two types of ppl when it comes to Bruce Lee. The old guys who think he’s invincible. And the younger generation that think he was a complete wimp & a fraud. The truth however is somewhere in the middle. Bruce wasn’t invincible & never in his lifetime claimed to be. But he wasn’t this wimp either who would get beat up by the likes of the average man who doesn’t train. When it pertains to this particular topic however no he wasn’t a master of grappling. But there’s evidence he actually started to get curious about it after his run in with Gene Lebel. We can’t forget Bruce was a fairly young man when he passed away. So he was still learning & developing as a martial artist. Had he lived to see the Modern Martial Arts era, I think we would see even an older Lee learning & training in arts such as bjj, muay thai etc. Does that mean he was gonna be a huge name in the UFC? Of course not but neither is Chuck Norris. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t still be interested in the martial arts of today.
What if The fans didn't treat him like some kind of Demigod?
wat
In that case they might have opened up their minds enough to recognize what Bruce Lee really gave to the world and might start to be grateful for this gift instead of making him to something he never wanted to be.
Imho asking and learning is what makes a person a fan of Mr Lee; treating him as a demigod seems more like holding on to a personal fantasy instead of searching for the truth as Bruce did his entire and yet way too short lifetime.
@@jackmakmorn exactly my ethos too. Thanks for your reply 👍
Bruce Lee learned some basic Catch wrestling from Gene Lebell, after Gene subdued him. He never became a proper wrestler but rather a guy who learned only submissions without any sort of control. But then again, he was a striker living in the 60s; a time before internet. So that's already a lot.
But yeah, totally agree with your assessment of his wrestling abilities.
When gene submit him show me the video
@@shawntrent2759 I think it's anecdotal, i.e. no evidence, but we can say the same about Bruce's alleged fights.
.... again, Ramsey speaks as if Gracie Jiu Jitsu is some kind of necessity in combat. The same way Ramsey dismisses Lee's ability (out of jealousy, because the former moved incredibly in the ring, while the latter moves like a pregnant yak in the ring), today's fighter's dismiss the Gracie's after watching Sakuraba wipe the floor with them. Carlos Gracie modified JAPANESE Jiu Jitsu to accommodate a shorter fighter like himself. It's still JAPANESE Jiu Jitsu, in fact, it more closely resembles JAPANESE Judo. Enough with this "Brazilian" Gracie Jiu Jitsu crap already lol. Again, Ramsey, do your homework, Lee learned Judo from Gene Lebell and Jesse Glover, Lee learned JuJitsu from Wally Jay, he learned various trapping and grappling methods from Chin Na, as well as many different Kung Fu styles. What the hell are you talking about when you say "arsenal" lmao. Stick to what you know, getting beaten by your own white belts.
Ramsey, you forgot the world's worst double leg in that one Bruce Lee film.
What film? I gotta see it
It's actually not that bad...lol
Not one positive video about Bruce Lee, about what he got right, his mixing of styles, his training, his physical abilities, his descriptions of drawing, feinging, counterstriking, footwork, body mechanics. The techniques he proposed that modern MMA fighters are finding effective, the various kneestomps to keep range. There's so much positive to say about him being ahead of his time at least in American and China, and how important understanding how to attack as defense, reflexively. It's always just nitpicking movie things or mischaracterizing demonstrations of specific concepts or saying well others did it (mixed grappled/striking or mma) before. Yes but that wasn't known or practiced at all in the world of the West and China in the 1950s/60s. An even earlier mixed martial artist was Miyamoto Musashi, who we should learn from too. Just like we should learn from Lee, Dempsey, Tyson, Atlas, Ali, etc. Achilles even if he wrote a book
Why talk about Musashi? Pankration is way older. It only worth if asian and japanese? So much fetishizing ...
Even on the striking department bruce lee looks like an amateour. Just watch how he strikes a punching bag with his push punches instead of a snapping punch. Tyson who is a heavy weight is even faster than bruce lee.
@@JL-tm3rc Dan said that video on the porch isn't how he actually hit heavy bags, read his writings about throwing punches and you can tell the body mechanics are very solid and a lot of MMA fighter's use similar body mechanics, to what Bruce Lee described. Israel Adesanya's vertical fist jab is literally identical to the jab Bruce described in his notes. Anyone who's studied Bruce Lee and did their homework properly, would know that that's not how he actually punches.
Rickson Gracie said "Bruce Lee's philosophy about fighting was 100% correct." I'll take his and all these other expert Fighters opinions on it, over keyboard Warriors any day
@@stephanwatson7902 there is no question about bruce lee's philosophy what i find issue is his execution of those techniques you might be right in writing but wrong in execution. Why did he hit the punching bag like that. where is the video of him hitting a punching bag correctly or doing the proper grappling techniques. If we judge Bruce Lee by the available footage and movie clips then he does not know what he is doing in grappling and striking. A lot of fighters like chael sonnen and tyson see bruce lee as just an actor who will be demolished in a real fight. So the best way to judge bruce lee is by him actually demonstrating a submission or hitting a punching bag. Show me the evidence then because all i have seen is incompetence in grappling and striking.
I would have love to see Bruce Lee add Muay Thai & BJJ to his style.
The move he did in enter the dragon, was a crucifix. It puts pressure on the neck. I have been caught in that a couple times. Had to tap. Couldn't get out once I was flipped over.
As a bruce fan, I never considered him a great grappler by any stretch. He showcased some knowledge of it, but I dont think that's something he really cared for as you mentioned. Even nowadays, lots of people that train martial arts know of the various grappling styles, but dont care for them. If anything, he probably preferred standing grappling, judo, thai clinch, etc. In the movie Chinese connection, when he gets armbared(crappy one but still dangerous from the position he was in), he just bit the guy till he let go. Not much grappling shown on his end.
Back then there was such a divide. You basically had wrestlers and judoka who knew how to grapple and it was a mystery to everyone else. Boxers boxed. Karateka did, well, karate stuff although in the 70s many still did some basic throws, not sure why they evaporated. I give Bruce some credit for realizing it was a huge hole in the game and beginning to bridge the divide but yes, he was not a competent grappler.
I feel the thing with movies however is not to get it accurate but instead to get it to look entertaining, even when the move being performed is completely wrong sometimes it might just look nicer and more entertaining than when it is performed correctly. The goal is entertainment not accuracy, if entertainment must be sacrificed for accuracy, it may cost the filmmakers the audience's care. I'm not saying Bruce Lee knew martial arts but he did know movies and he may have just been doing it for looks ultimately
I'm pretty sure that Bruce admitted he needed to train more in jujitsu in one of his books. I thought that he said that in Tao of JKD but not 100% on that.
Somebody confirm this ?
I think he would of end up useing ju jitsu down the track he was always learning new ideas about fighting
I’ve seen a few clips of Bruce Lee in some film or show or whatever dismissing grappling as something you can bite your way out of. I loved watching Bruce growing up, but he’s kind of like the St. Nicholas of martial arts. He’s real, he existed, and he was great. But he ain’t magic.
The St. Nic of martial arts... that fantastic!
He’s not wrong about being able to bite your way out of it though
I feel Bruce probably would've been pretty dismissive at first, but if he got to see it in action like we do now in MMA, he'd change his mind. I feel like grappling/submissions would be the hydraulics portion of flowing like water.
I have the same feeling. Just the fact he did a few grappling techniques in his movies, even if badly executed, and he wrote/doodled some on the Tao of JKD shows he didn't completely dismiss them as being effective, however he might not have given them as much importance as he should. And as you said, once he would see those techniques in action like we currently see in MMA he would definitly think twice and research more about it.
In the end tho, my guess is he prefered to fight as a striker and would default to it nonetheless, but most likely with a bigger knowledge on grappling once he understood the importance of it.
those that don’t know grappling may only notice gross movements. maybe the film choreography have them do moves that won’t work but look visually simple to see.i agree though that Bruce Lee did not train much grappling
I
Bruce Lee is like a god and can never do wrong.
Have you considered doing movie reviews? Just looking at popular martial arts movies and giving your opinion/criticism on them?
Could be fun.
I have a whole playlist of videos like that:
ruclips.net/p/PLx78ZkEKSXzAYnXMtA0aXJbKbe6Z6WzkW
When it comes to grappling then you can better learn better learn from a real wrestler. I saw on his grappling defense book that he uses eye pokes and groin strikes to get out of that position. That would not not because of the adrinaline.
Bruce Lee was essentially martial arts journey RUclips channel circa 1965/1970s yes his grappling was rubbish bit he realised his traditional martial arts wernt working but I believe back in those days wernt like today there wasn't bjj clubs in every corner . Agreed he should have found better coaches atleast he loved boxing. Cheers coach love the vids
Given more time to train and evolve his style I believe he would have gotten to a more MMA style eventually. You see differences in jkd clubs some look super wing chun styled others street MMA looking who knows what way he would have evolved. ☺ 👍
I've Always found the coliseum fight to be embarassing because of that choke.i showed the scene to my judoka Kids and they started laughting because they found It funny and unlikely . And Kids Say the Truth, most of the time.and by the way if you are trained to do the move the right way , you Will NEVER Do It the wrong way in a video!
Oh and by the way Ramsey almost no One cares about Lee nowadays, only jkd nerds. Please comment the cobra kai fights instead! ( And maybe of you fill merciless the original , obscene fight scenes from the original movie..)
Bruce Jose Pedro Lee.
Mr Ramsey it's just a movie bro you want Bruce Lee to kill the actors for real bro,my boy knows Martial arts ok he had me in a guillotine that shit hurt bro and he was just showing me ok he could broke my neck for real ok so stop let Bruce Lee rip bro!!!
I would somewhat disagree with your o soto gari remark. I feel he commits minimally to it because he is in a boxing-kicking match, not compromising his stance, and is counting on the element of surprise. I'm sure he could pull of a proper one by then if he wanted to.
No. He could not.
It’s not even the commitment to the movement, it’s the angle. If you try an osoto gari like that directly in front of your opponent, the bigger guy pushing forward will invariably trip the smaller guy. You need to rotate 90 degrees to the outside of your opponent’s leg so any attempt to push back results is him throwing himself.
Also Ramsey, you mention about Master Wong and possibly going into denial on bjj. Let's not forget, Bruce was the first one to recognize and admit that wing chun was too limited after his challenge fight. And this was a major turning point for him. Yes I mean we will never know for sure - but I am not aware of any evidence of denial and not accepting martial arts and techniques, in fact it appears to be the opposite. Yes I think he would have made changes to it, and tried to test new things, perhaps a fair amount of ego would have gotten involved... I know it's a completely hypothetical conversation, and who knows... Anyway would be interested in training with you if Im ever in Shanghai. (y)
I was told by my silat teacher that Dan inosanto found that silat compensated for the missing ground work and partially grappling in jkd. Bruce supposedly never got to develop grappling and groundwork for jeet kune do with Dan inosanto before he died.
Like you said he was likely around grapplers. But obviously surrounded himself with that point striking crowd. What about wally jay ? I'm sure they could have met.
I grew up loving Bruce Lee and admire many of his qualities.
However, he was not a good grappler and his daughter is a nutty SJW.
He trained grappling only briefly and his armbar in Enter the Dragon was horrible. He was not a good grappler at all. He would be less than a white belt in BJJ. Did you even watch this video?
@@ranchlife8128 He wanted his opinion based on his arguments. What did you expect? Someone making a comment just to imitate what the youtuber said, so all of his arguments are copy-pasted onto him from the youtuber?
@@BigHalfSteps I answered the guys question but I have no idea what you are going on about. I think you misinterpreted something.
@@ranchlife8128 You just regurgitated what Ramsay said. He wanted the original commenter's opinion, because he seemed like he had arguments of his own. He didn't want a summary of what the video said. Atleast that's what my opinion is, since it's probably obvious he watched the video and just wants more opinions/arguments on that matter.
@@BigHalfSteps I didn't regurgitate anything. I actually answered his question before I saw Ramsey's whole video and I added a couple of points Ramsey didn't. It is a well known fact Lee was no grappler so I gave a brief answer. I could care less about the other gentlemen answering or not so I don't know what you are going on about. Maybe you should pose your questions or statements to him. If anyone wants proof Lee was no grappler I can offer a lot more points than Ramsey did but I think he covered the basics pretty well. Too many Lee fanboys that think he was some great fighter so I oblige them with truth every chance I get.
I really like you and I share the same admiration of Bruce.
it doesn't even look lke "grappling"...more like a kind of sweep that a stand up fighter could also do
James Yimm Lee had studied Judo, as had a few of Bruce's students. Bruce had plenty of opportunities to learn and get advice on fight choreography. Why didn't he? Well, the only man who can answer is no longer with us.
Yup Coach, your are most probably "Excomunicado" from the Jeet Kun DO community, and you most enjoy the backlash from all this Bruce Lee ultra Fans. In my opinion, Bruce would have a hard time with Jiu Jitsu, grappling or with Judokas, since he was mostly a striker that relied on his fast and fluid hands & kicks, but for him to let another human being grab him and throw him to the mat or choke the living daylight out of him, that would take away his natural advantages, but again who knows.... Apparently fans are the only ones that know for sure..... According to fans he would excel in all arts (and that's nearly impossible) but again you are fighting an idea/ legend/icon and probably he could have taken even on Superman and win. Great video Sensei!!
I think if he would take up a style even if he wasnt a natural too it his work ethic would at least push him to be competent.
I think anyone on a high school wrestling team would have destroyed Bruce.
@@poolboyinla doubt it Bruce would just start biting them and kicking there nuts
@@ezgreviews6775 They could also do that to him.
@@poolboyinla yes but Bruce is quicker
Bruce Lee AND BJJ in one video, my two favourite things!!!
Bruce trained under Gene Lebell for over a year he also trained with his student Hayward Nishioka and before them he trained with Jesse Glover. Bruce was not a Grappling phenom but he talked about how important ground Grappling was. That being said the days ground Grappling being everything you need has largely died out. Clinch and striking knock outs are being done at a much higher rate than submissions in mma these days and there’s things in sport BJJ that you just would not do in a real street fight. Mastering The basics of Catch wrestling and judo will get you a long way.
It only works ondastreez against multiple armed opponents
Thanks for the upload Ramsey. Chadi is a Judo channel & he claims the complete opposite to you regarding Bruce Lee's Judo/grappling. Also regarding beginner move just look at the Gracie fights from the 80s and early 90s they were mainly won through using beginner techniques both in instigation & submission. Chadi also reviews these as well from a Judo perspective. Hey np bud we all have different perspectives.
Peace & Love!
There are no “beginner” moves. There are techniques performed correctly and techniques performed incorrectly.
I follow Chadi channel, but he is a guy from Judo and Aikido background. He is not a very well specialist in submission techniques and his opinions are very biased in favor for Judo. Ramsey Dewey is very right on this one, Bruce Lee grappling skill are just trash.
are you telling me i'd tap Bruce Lee
Lol