I think the people calling other folks names for tapping to strikes are fools. If you're in danger in a fight and you know you can't defend yourself, tapping out is just smart.
I think you can only believe that it’s weak move if you’ve never been in this type of situation, as in never really had a fight. Basically, weaklings call everyone else weaklings, it’s so typical. P.s.: or they’ve been in a fight, but only against much weaker opponents. These types are also the least confident men in existence, that’s why they have a need to... blablabla, baby psychology, you get the point.
A lot of people have never experienced anything like it. That trapped feeling that increases with every blow, while at the same time every blow takes a little more of your ability to think and plan.
Could it also have to do with seeing movie characters shrug off punches, or recovering quickly from them with no long term effects? A lot of people seem to have an unrealistic idea of what kind of damage punches do. A movie character gets knocked out, wakes up in a new situation and then continues their adventure like nothing happened. There's also this disturbing trend nowadays of describing someone on the receiving end of a brutal beating(usually by a mob) as them getting "roughed up a bit".
For sure, movies and TV have a powerful effect on how people view violence. For most people aesthetic trumps function when it comes to how they process danger. Take for example, a survey of American citizens when shown pictures of automatic rifles. Most of the people surveyed agreed that the rifles with the “friendly looking” wooden stocks were less dangerous than the all black rifles with the polycarbonate plastic stocks. Even though both rifles were mechanically identical. Why? Because the bad guys in R rated movies always carry black rifles while the heroes of the classic G-rated bloodless cowboy westerns used wooden stocks.
@@RamseyDewey Ha, didn't know about the rifle example. I do think in that case giving people a choice like that in a survey often makes them think they absolutely have to make a choice one way or the other. They'll forget they can also say they look equally dangerous. I believe that's how they got the results for that ridiculous "brown cows make chocolate milk" survey too.
@@ShoRyuBarbie, then you make a fair point. I'm sure there is a subconscious influence on some audience members at least. We all form ideas/opinions about things based on personal references and when you've never been hit, your personal references about what it's like to be hit can only be based on what you've seen. I suspect there'd be plenty that would deny the point you're making in reference to themselves but that's largely because they're not consciously aware of it and they'd want to make sure that people know that they "know the difference between movies and real life", yet they haven't had the real life experience.
I watched a UFC fight not too long ago I forgot the names,but what happened was that a fighter took heavy blows all round but did not get knock out or submitted so he surrendered at stoppage time.When you know you can't take it anymore surrendering is better than long term injuries.
I've been watching a bit of bare knuckle boxing lately and fighters giving up between rounds is pretty common. Giving in mid-round doesn't happen too much, but is still treated as normal. I was a little confused as an MMA fan at first, but it's smart (and usually still "makes sense" as a viewer - you know who took the brunt end most of the time).
I used to take part in a couple of amateur mma fights, and I didn't even know that you may tap out to strikes. so if I had been at the receiving end of that beating I guess I would have just take it unless a referee stopped it or got KO'd. thank God that didn't happen
There's an interesting segment of Thomas Fewtrell's "Boxing Reviewed" (1790) where he's evaluating Broughton's rules and proposing a new ruleset. In it he mentions a practice of seconds dragging fighters to scratch and standing them up just for them to be knocked down again, well past the point them having a hope of being able to fight.
Just flicking through it again. This is a cool quote regarding "manliness" in fighting: "Activity is in our time a greater requisite than it formerly was; for Shifting which consists in the changing of ground, is more practised. Some have censured Shifting as an unmanly custom, but without reason. If indeed mere brutal force were to decide a combat, it might be deemed improper; but where the mind has a considerable case as present, Shifting cannot be thought unmanly... The old school furnishes a surpring instance of bottom [ability to withstand blows]. The noted Burkhorse made a practice of standing without a guard, and permitting himself to be knocked down by the hardest hitter, for a trifling sum of money." The next paragraph then explains the concept of training.
I thought about it a few times and the best viable option to get the fight finished if you cannot get out of it and do not want to have the "embarrasment" and critique of tap out from strikes is to give away a submission if possible
I think when people see strikes (particularly punches) they may associate it to other striking sports in particular boxing matches, which when their is one fighter with a big advantage over the other it many times gets resolved by knockout / referee decision and you don't see tap out, given for how this has happened for so long, it's part of the fighting tradition or culturally, it's assumed that is how striking is going to get resolved.
When you are caught in a submission you have basically lost with no way out. When you are receiving ground and pound and you are not out cold, you can still possibly get out. I think that's the difference in mentality.
Hello Ramsey. In one of your videos you talked about consequences if someone would die in MMA fight and explained that there are no legal consequences. Could you please go deeper into this topic? What if fighter died because rules were broken? could referee or organization be held responsible for fighters death in any way? Could you please explain more about this topic? I also remember a fight long ago when Japanese fighter Yuki Nakai fought some French guy and he was left blind because of eye pokes, do you have any information about how it ended for French guy? did he have any legal problems or got away with it?
You sign a legally binding death waver before a fight. If you die, you die. In my last fight, my opponent loaded his wraps, broke my skull in multiple places and left me blind in one eye. He went on to fight in the UFC. That’s the fight game. It’s not “da streetz” where the criminal justice system holds your hand if you get a boo boo.
It should not be dishonorable to tap out to strikes, after all there is just as much at stake or even more if the ref for some reason is allowing the fight to go on too long. Broken limb vs submission tap, or brain damage vs tap out to strikes. After all it’s still a sport, right?
People who don't understand how difficult it is to reverse the situation when you are punched full force on the face have never been probably been punched themselves and should be ASAP. I also think that as people are used to good see good referees stopping fights after 3-4 punches ( at most) aganist someone who cannot defend himself, they rarely see bad referees leaving the fight go on until one of the fighters is reduced to pulp, and so they think the fighter can " keep on" because they don't tell a desperate situation from a manageable one . As for the grappling, sometimes fighters tap out long before they are doomed , but they panic ; but your average joe knows nothing about grappling and so cannot understand what is going on and so cannot show his " blame" for the "early tap ". And by the way, there should never be stigma on tapping out because safety first, expecially for non professionals.
Beyond the pure entertainment aspect of it. I think it probably comes from dueling culture. Once dueling to first blood or to the death became no longer socially acceptable. I suspect that the values of dueling reflected onto classical boxing by nature of it being a combat sport
if someone gets o top of you and they land like 3 good shots and you know your not coming back from those shots with him still about to punch you in the face anymore then you should tap. rather quit then loose a tooth or break your jaw just to say you took a knockout instead of quiting. is it not enough to say the other person was a better fighter on that day? besides its not really quitting if the moment he lands the last strike its over anyway if your gonna get knocked out so whats the point of taking more damage
Could taking your hand away from your face, assuming you are covering up, be dangerous and scary to do while being pounded as you are leaving your face there to be battered ?
I guess because they figure if you can tap then you could put your guard up or strike back? Or work on improving your position with your hands instead of tapping?That tapping would be taking the weak man's way out? Conner is a tapper he gets away with it.. I'm not sure 😕
Millions of people who already hated Connor McGreggor gave him a hard time for tapping out to a neck breaking technique that would have otherwise killed him.
Footwork is how you move your feet in order to execute a particular stand up fighting technique. Every technique has its own footwork. If your footwork is off, you will never connect with your target. If your timing is off, you will never connect with your target. If you lack balance and stability, then you have more pressing and immediate issues in life than prize fighting. Fights are won with effective striking, effective grappling, and effective aggression. Aggressiveness, being able to put some violence in your violence, is often the missing ingredient that unsuccessful fighters lack the most. Aggressiveness is also one of the first things a new student can learn that can allow them any level of success in fighting in spite of their lack of experience.
CTE is a serious problem in strinking arts. If you need your brain (>80% of all working people) on a competitive level there is no reason to maim yourself. Tap
I come from boxing not mma, so I just assumed that people don't tap to ground and pound because they didn't want to give up their guard which protects their face. I mean, you have to open the guard and move your arm and hand somewhere where you can tap in an obvious manner, don't you?
Being shamed for tapping out to strikes is a holdover from striking traditions like boxing, which were relatively ignorant of the long-term consequences of repeated brain trauma. Toughness meant being mentally able to withstand a browbeating, only to turn the tables with a skilled or lucky haymaker. The operative word however, to is “withstand.” If toe-to-toe in the middle of the ring on equal footing, then yeah, withstand. But if someone has mounted you, you no longer have the upper hand, literally, and your disadvantage negates all of your “toughness,” making a show of your courage pointless and futile. You should be able to tap out to ground and pound. But it will take a long time for fighting cultures to catch up with the reality of the laws of physics in that regard. Pugilistic people tend to be extremely stubborn and in a sense, hard headed.
I think it's a hangover from boxing culture. There is no "honorable" way to submit in boxing. You're expected to fight till you can't fight anymore, you're expected to go beyond that point and have the corner through in the towel for you. because in boxing you still have a punches chance. That mentality has crossed over to MMA. But in MMA, when you get mounted you no longer have a punchers chance, and if you can't escape, you will be beaten to pulp. Yet that boxing mentality remains.
You get a grapplers chance xD. But seriously, mma rule changes like removing soccer kicks, knees to the head of a downed opponent, 12 to 6 elbows, etc. have made KO,s more difficult - these rules hurt the fighters because they don't get knocked out that easy when they are down, thus more dain bramage!
In boxing if you don't respond to hits for too much time there is the tko anyway, for what I see when you tap to a lock there isn't quite literally anything you can do except undergoing a insufferable amount of pain until your arm get snapped. With hits, at least in theory, you can grab the opponent's arms, try to respond, parry, and trying to turn the situation or survive until the end of the round, it's not signed fate like in a lock.
not to mention the strikes from a ground and pound are more powerful then stand up punches. Randy Couture for example had his stand up strikes tested on a fight science show. his stand up punches were around 500 lbs of force, which isn't really anything compared to a pro boxer but when he was mounted and doing the ground and pound they were over 4 times as powerful. so just imagine if a person was a truly gifted striker who was mounted on top of you doing a ground and pound. if said Mixed martial artist had the striking force of your average boxer:880 lbs and was mounted on top of you, that strike would be over 3,520 lbs of force
When you are an amateur fighter, your health should be your No 1 priority! You won't have any benefits from getting your head bashed in and longterm CTE
@@SebastianSchachner That's like asking an F1 driver how does money help if they go flying off the track and into the concrete wall at 140mph. Well it doesn't, but if they don't crash and win they stand to gain an awful lot, it's a calculated risk and those who aren't willing to take it will never be the best at anything. Even without getting into ground and pound, brain damage is a serious possibility in sports like boxing or American football. The only way to ensure it'll never happent to you is not to play. But if you don't play you can't win...
I think it's that the effects of having your limb snapped or being choked out are immediately apparent to anyone watching or participating in a fight, but humans have a tendency to overlook long term consequences of actions so the effects of getting repeatedly concussed are overlooked as you won't immediately get CTE as soon as the other guy starts ground-and-pounding you. If fighters immediately got irreparable brain damage as soon as they took 6 or more undefended strikes to the head, people would probably tap to strikes more as the consequences of not tapping would be immediately apparent and not something you have to deal with some years later.
I think you got it just right and just to add on to your point, by the time fighters have brain damage they are usually out of the public eye since their fighting careers are over and at that point people definitely don't care as much.
@@MrDude180 Yeah, all that combined with the fact that most striking sports don't give fighters a way to quit in the midst of the action. You either get KO'd, your corner throws in the towl for you or you quit on the stool after having taken some punishment already. So when someone comes from the boxing or kickboxing culture into MMA, their instinct isn't to give up in the middle of a round and that impacts the culture of MMA as a whole.
Tap to a guy holding you in an uncomfortable position for a few seconds and no one bats an eye. Tap to a guy bludgeoning you while on top of you on the ground after half a minute and everyone loses their minds!(?)
maybe it's because in most if not all combat sports that do not include grappling, there isn't really an option for a fighter to just admit defeat in the middle of a round. either they get knocked out, the ref stops the fight, or their corner throws in the towel, but the fighter doesn't say "I'm done" and calls off the rest of the fight. whereas submission grappling has the option to tap out as a long standing tradition for training and competition, where you are basically encouraged to tap out before serious damage occurs.
A lot of fighters in the early days of MMA brought some *really* bad practices from their parent sports. That's where MMA gets its extreme weight cutting from, old college wrestlers like Randy Couture. I actually remember seeing an interview where Couture talks about how, in the early days of the sport, a lot of wrestlers-turned-mixed-martial-artists would just practice MMA by... doing MMA, the same way a wrestler would practice wrestling every day, but every different from how a boxer practices boxing. So these guys would be punching each other in the head every day. There's actually some decent anecdotal evidence that extreme weight cuts might hurt performance. Look at Robert Whittaker- 3-2 in his first five UFC bouts at 170, and then 9-1 at 185, with 7 fight bonuses.
There is a way to tap out, you can just say you are done, stop fighting, turn your back away or take out your mouthguard. It rarely happens on pro level, but in amateur fights it is not that rare. Maybe normalising it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, of course, people enjoy seeing someone get beat down and knocked out, but being an amateur fighter myself, I care more about the safety of it.
@@wszczeklypiesz I haven't seen many amateur fights, and have no desire to become a fighter myself, so I was not aware of that. But I agree that it ought to be more normalized.
i feel that you got it correct. Tappingout to a sumbission is ok because it causes long term damage that could hinder your whole life. whereas tapping to strikes is frowned up because people either want the ref to stop it or see you go out. but going out multiple times can also cause long term damage. worse than any submission will do. being choked out and being knocked out have very different effects. but you know this from your experience with head trauma.
Smart move by him. What do I get if I tap out? Less damage less pain maybe I save a few teeth. What do I get if I don't tap out? Well I keep getting beat up.
"What do I get if I don't tap out?" If you're a professional fighter you might be more popular (because people for some reason often find it to be more "warrior-like") and hence earn more fights and therefore more money. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't think it's a worthy trade, just offer an explanation why many choose to wait for the referee.
I've often asked myself the same thing when I've seen MMA fans ridicule fighters who tap to strikes. Do they imagine getting your head caved in with strikes while being held down by the opponent in a dominant position to be a less worthy situation to submit to than a choke? In that case, why?
I feel a lot better now. I've never been ground and pounded like that before, but it was eye opening. Getting repeatedly smashed into the ground is so different than catching a strike or two while standing.
Tapping out to submissions but not strikes, comes from the rule sets of the martial arts that these techniques come from: you can tap out in BJJ, but not boxing/kickboxing. Just a matter of tradition.
After my last fight my eye was being worked on by my coach in the back room I asked did I win i can't remember the end of the fight. He laughed and said no. Getting pounded on the ground is no joke kinda wish it ended sooner
It used to be ok. I've seen earlier UFC fights where ppl tapped. It's weird for sure. Honestly I'm one of those who demonizes the ufc a bit because I feel they try to incentivise destructive behavior. So I personally suspect the UFCs attitude and selection bias favors the do or die fighters in a way that it's reflected in the behavior of their fighters, who are the most prestigious fighters in general, so it effects the culture at large by setting the norm. The highest level is done this way, so you need a good reason to make ppl really question it. They give a bonus for finishes and tapping to strikes isn't seen as allowing the opportunity for what they see as a legitimate "finish". They still maintain a bit of the fantasy narrative that this is supposed to approximate a street fight death match.
Do or die fighters? Combat sports in general is do or die and many of them have that mentality from the start I think because of the mindset you'd need in a real fight. The ufc definitely incentivizes this but they give an extra push for what's already there basically. It's more an incentive for not stopping the finish. They've already decided to KO them but that bonus prevents them from 2nd guessing their decision.
Anguel Roumenov Bogoev I agree with you. The UFC does not respect the athletes they deem as not being entertaining enough, and sometimes they just get rid of them altogether. Meanwhile the UFC exalts the ignorant trash talkers, so long as they get the big wins. UFC is about money, and advertising, not about martial arts.
I think it's because people overestimate how much damage they can take and punches are seen as weaker compared to takedowns or kicks. Which is technically true, but it adds up
I did not even wait for the GNP to tap out on my first loss in an amateur bout. It was my first time to get hit on my solar plexus and i fell on the canvas before he could even land 1 single gnp i tapped lol.
tapping out due to strikes really should become acceptable. I saw two MMA fights where the ground and pound went on waaaaay too long, and both times it was the same referee but at different events. Sure we wanna see action...violence even, but the fighters have to live to fight another day
Maybe he was still intelligently defending himself and his opponent was just punching through his guard or really hammering on him. Getting pounded on doesn't mean you've lost. Brock Lesnar got absolutely mauled in one of his fights, but since he was intelligently defending and working to improve the whole time, the ref (I think it was Herb Dean) didn't stop the fight, and he later went on to get the victory.
Martial arts up until recently was all about the striking Before MMA boxing, karate,and kung fu were the recomended fighting styles with wrestling relagated to a Circus side show the base template for ring fighting rules comes from those striking cultures that knock out as opposed to tap out I cant really think of any striking arts that have a tap out making knock out the default expectation
Something to do with not appreciating the injury risks. Lots of people think it’s just pain or an off switch. But teeth get removed, orbital bones get shattered, noses break which actually affect you the rest of your life. Eyeballs get injured. Equilibrium can be permanently messed up. And your brain can actually get damaged too. Doesn’t always happen but It’s common enough.
If your getting paid millions I could see where it would be bad to tap to strikes, but if your an amateur who’s paying to compete it’s smart to live to fight another day.
I got some pressure testing tonight with my army friend. He weighs 200. And knows the same Jiu-jitsu I do. I surprised him a few times. And I didn't get gassed out this time. 💯💁🏻♀️🥋
I thought about this when I recently watched the fight with the Sandman where he didn’t tap out when his arm was being bent backwards in an arm bar ,but when he started ground pounding Alcantara in the third round and looked at the ref ,he gave a look at the ref of,”come on ,man,call the fight”. Made absolutely no sense for Alcantara not to tap out when he was being beaten like that . Of course ,I thought the ref was negligent as well.
I don't know about you guys, but even from the perspective of a viewer, I think fights that end in submissions due to strikes to be awesome. It's really easy to beat on a guy for few seconds until a third party thinks your opponent has had enough, but it's SUPER impressive when someone beats on a professional fighter hard enough that HE goes "nah, I'm good". Guys like Mighty Mouse, with 12 of their 30 wins coming by extremely technical holds and manipulation of their opponent's joints, are impressive; but so is being such a monstrous physical force that your opponent (a literal professional at being hit) just gives up to you hitting them. I actually prefer submission finishes (be they to strikes or grappling) to KOs to TKOs to decisions. Hitting someone so hard the rational and logical part of their mind decides to voluntarily give up is a lot more impressive than hitting them so hard their body just shuts down. Your opponent can only control one of those things.
Could the showmanship aspect of pro fighting be at play? For one, a ground and pound is very visceral and exciting to a lot of viewers; they want to see that K.O. Also I think it gives viewers more of a feeling that the defender could turn things around and cause an upset from such a position, but have no such feeling when a submission has obviously been sunk in.
I think the idea of "never give up" is found throughout our culture - hell, how many of our fictional heroes are exemplified by the idea that they never give up and keep on fighting until they simply can't fight anymore? It's part of our cultural psyche; it doesn't extend into submissions because tapping out has been accepted as being a part of submissions for as long as submissions have existed (although there is still an element of it in fiction; if you look at pro-wrestling for example, the heroic characters rarely out of a submission - they pass out instead and the referee calls for the bell. It's always 'the cowardly villains' that tap out; and the crowd will often taunt them for having done so after the fact). I think that society still has a lot of this machismo attitude to it and I think that it's probably something that will go away in time. Part of the perception might also be that if you're in a submission hold and you can't get out of it then tapping is now you're only option; whereas with strikes, there's the perception that you can still move and defend yourself (even if a fighter evidently can't). I have seen a few fighters tap out to ground and pound, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Hell, a fighter can quit at any time they want and for any reason they want, although I think it's only worth ragging on them for it if they didn't try their best. Tapping out doesn't mean that you weren't trying your best. It just means you didn't want brain damage. NO FIGHT is worth brain damage.
Gloves that’s it If you aren’t waring gloves you can’t take more than one or two hits so it’s much harder to get brain damage You can’t blitz someone in the face and it look fine while they are getting brain damage
I think that getting choked out or your arm snapped is inevitable and there is nothing you can do about it once your opponent gets you in that position, so people realize its not about how tough you are and its a game over, as if someone points a gun to your head. however, when it comes to strikes, its a question of how tough you are because supposedly, if you are tough enough, you can take it and find your way out. if you can overcome then you should. now in my personal view, i agree that if someone is riding on your back raining punches to your head and you see you cant escape and the fight isnt stoped, you should tap. there is no point in getting further strikes until your skull gets cracked. you should feel when there is nothing you can do and tap.
honestly if anyone makes fun of you for tapping out to strikes, just point out to them that five time world strongman mariusz pudzianowski submitted to Tim Sylvia by strikes
I remember in early UFC days (2004-2007) there was a stigma against tapping out to even submissions. Chuck Liddell went on Letterman and said "I've never tapped. Been put to sleep once, but never tapped." Like depriving your brain of oxygen for a good 1-5 seconds is the better alternative. Michael Bisping, also an old school guy, said on his podcast after the GSP fight, he knew that choke was tight but he'd rather be put to sleep than tap. Full respect to both those guys of course, but that's a foolish line of reasoning. Both GSP and Joanna lost their titles tapping out to strikes. I don't think they got much flack for it, and rightfully so. I understand the fighter's ego not wanting to look like he's quitting, but for fans to get on him I find deplorable.
Not tapping isn’t necessarily “foolish”. It is well within reason for a pro to say or think “if I can tap I can fight and TRY to get out” or “I knew what I signed up for, I’ve been choked out before, it is a risk I am willing to take to attempt to escape” The difference between winning and losing a championship UFC fight can literally be millions of dollars. Change your family’s life forever money. Most people would be willing to risk going out for a few seconds for that. I get the other side of it as well, but neither side needs to be “foolish” just because you don’t share their perspective or priorities.
Hey man, i loved the flow of you rolling, looks cool. Yeah I had a concussion back in the day, I was f- up for a week. I was really scared it wouldn't get better. That was one of the fights I won on points.
ultimately i am of the opinion that every Mixed martial artist has been on the end of a choke, armbar, etc so they know the feeling of being in that position. since grappling is a major part of the art. your average Mixed martial artist couldn't think of ever being in a situation where they might need to tap out because of strikes
The sports of mma is introduced as the Ultimate Fighter Challenge..i think people generally imply that this is The top of the bill wen it comes to allround combative fights,this should be the sport that beats everything.So if a fighter makes it to this level of fighting,expectations are high and people don't want to be disappointed i think.
Igor Vovchanchyn made 2 men quit from strikes, in the same night (it was a 8-man tournament). First one was Fred Floyd, much taller and weighing almost twice as much as Igor. Then Vovchanchyn won by dropping Paul Varelans. The second man who quit from strikes was John Dixson, in the tournament final. I wrote ''quit'' because they weren't on the ground when it happened, they were standing up, but signaled the ref they give up.
What do you think about the influences of ETs (god vs god warfare in Sumerian, Chaldean, Biblical, Vedas and other ancient text) on combat culture in human beings?
Nice timing! This saturday at Bellator 248 there was tapping to ground and pound by Ryan Scope (vs. Alan Omer) but the tapping was "hard" to see because he used his hands to cover up his head, so the referee didn't see the tapping and ended the fight some seconds later
That's tricky. In a boxing match if you tap it's seen as a choice to quit. Whereas in a grappling match it seems you have no other options. True or not, its a matter of perception. On that note though, your corner NEEDS to protect you!! If you're being wrecked, then their whole purpose is to save you from yourself and that unnecessary whooping. Equally important to some, your reputation as a "warrior" can be preserved by removing the "quitter" connotation.
Its the refs job to protect you, but if they arent protecting you then you gotta protect yourself. 30-40 seconds of GnP and no stoppage is ludicrous. Assuming there was no legitimate attempt to defend or improve position
excelent video Ramsey. I don't know where it all started but I think a lot of it has to do with movies and vestern sports boxing. And I think some people like blood and extreme violence.
Now I'm not advocating the use of these things, but there is a reason why psychedelics (psilocybin, LSD, DMT and others) have been legalized in Denver, Colorado and several cities in California and is on the ballot in several other states. There is mounting evidence being provided by universities such as Harvard, UC Berkley and many independent/ out of country scientists demonstrating that these drugs regenerate dead neurons (in other words heal brain damage, to what degree I cannot definitively say) and increase inter-connectivity of the brain (meaning your brain can respond faster and more efficiently to environmental stimuli). I have experience with brain damage (many concussions and a suicide attempt with bleach just made life foggy and confusing) and experience with the drugs psilocybin and LSD (large trip doses of both drugs and a stint of micro dosing with LSD). I no longer feel the need to micro dose. My reflexes are better than they ever were (feel like I'm in the matrix so to speak) my articulation is top tier, I learn things faster. Its almost like I went from seeing life in 720p 30fps to seeing life in 4k 60fps. Now it's important to note, I only believe tripping worked for me (used as a tool to alleviate myself of depression, anxiety and most of my PTSD "symptoms", still working that out) due to the way I prepared my mind before hand. 1. Breathing techniques (see: Wim Hof method for an in depth scientific look at breathing), specifically yogic breathing, helped to keep me present whilst on high trip doses of these substances. If I did not utilize these, my trips could have ended a lot worse (highest trip dose being 1000 ugs of LSD). 2. Philosophy. A lot of people scoff at philosophy but this is due to their perception of it. Every human being on earth has a philosophy. Hitler had a philosophy. I say that to show that not all philosophy is "good", and some philosophies can lead you down very dark roads. If your philosophy is a weak one, you could end up with a gun in your mouth, as the realizations you come to on these drugs can be quite shocking, as they were for me (truly understanding the vastness of the universe, concepts like eternity and infinity, ect.) I pulled my philosophy from people such as Marcus Aurelius, Sun Tzu, Miyamoto Musashi, Laozi and the works of Eckhart Tolle. I wouldn't say you must study these people and their works but by utilizing the mental tools that they provide I was able to navigate my trips in a healthy way, that led me to bettering myself and eventually to experiencing peace, contentment. 3. I started with micro-dosing. This was just to get a feel for the drug and to understand what I could handle. Start small and if you've prepared your mind, feel free to work your way up. All of this being said, again I'm totally not advocating the use of these substances. This has just been a comprehensive guide as to how you can safely use these substances if you ever were to try them. ***FINAL SAFETY NOTE*** TEST KITS, TEST KITS, TEST KITS. Psyched substances is a channel that recommends reputable test kit websites, don't feel like grabbing the link myself. Also, its waaaaay easier to get dirty LSD than it is to get dirty shrooms, careful out there
mma, kickboxing, muay thai, box, etc are brutal arts just for true warriors & crazy people. I totally avoid sparring and don't care If they call me chicken or a wimp xD... I love wrestling and rolling btw :D
If someone in the UFC submitted to strikes, they would be fired for 'giving up' . When fighters tap to leg locks, they know that they've been beaten. You tap so you can keep your limb and fight another day, acknowledging defeat. However when it's your brain (responsible for memory, cognition, etc) you're just supposed to take every blow. Even if you can't fight anymore, and even though your brain takes the MOST permanent type of damage.
Throwing in the towel is a foul in MMA. You’ll be disqualified for doing it. So, yeah, you can- and it will end the fight. But it’s officially against the rules.
To be honest I don't even know HOW to tap out in striking... All I've known is t.k.o. or throwing the towell. Phisicall conditionning is my weak spot (health issues does not go well with 9 to 5 jobs) and most gyms I've been where okay but I just did not feel safe for this kind of thing but its highly frowned upon.... I had it taken as lazyness, cowardice and even disrespect. Specially in gyms with a handfull of belts and trophys...
The hand to hand border brawl on the Line of Actual control between China and India resulted in 48 casualties from head injuries and exposure from falling into the river... 24 hours later?!?!
I am a bjj blue belt with no mma experience at all. Right now we have a professional mma fighter training with us. Sometimes we roll with him while he has his gloves on. He would just mark the punches which is great because it gives you a remote idea of how it feels when strikes are involved and gives you an understanding on how bjj changes under these conditions. On one occasion he trapped my left arm while I was in bottom half guard lying on my right side and it was just raining knuckles. He wouldn't stop for about 30 seconds. If that had been for real I would have ended up really, REALLY badly. Why should it be bad to tap out in such a situation if the punches are for real? It is your health and it's your life.
This is why I don't like when the Gracie's refuse to tap to joint locks, to me it's honorable to admit defeat and save your knee joint for a real fight when you're going to need it
Well honestly that was tko, I've never seen someone tap out to strikes that you couldn't make case of a tko besides a few of Bob Sapp's dives. It's wierd when somebody obvious giving up their back because of ground and pound, gets rnc (sometimes you can see them give up there neck too) but they don't nobody says anything
If you look at the culture behind submissions, in bjj is already established that you must tap out or you are an idiot, in striking martial arts it's not. When we watch boxing, kickboxing, etc, the fight normally gets decided by ko, technical ko or point, rarely one side decides to surrender. It's the culture embedded in the martial art that goes carried into MMA. Now MMA can change it if they adopt the culture behind bjj.
Hey Ramsey, can you do a video on some fighting rules of thumb? Just essential things you should know if possible. An example of this would be if you can’t back up, don’t lean forward. Seen a guy get flying knee’d because he did this. Or to keep your elbows in when during guard play. Another example would be of jocko willink explaining in a guard pass concept video when in someone’s guard you would not want to put your knees both down trying to pass, but get into a kneeling position so you can pass easier and don’t have to work to get into the position from your knees if you don’t have to. Not necessarily techniques or moves, but positioning or concepts that will outplay your opponent or at the least make what you do as safe as possible while going for something or having something being done to you. Anything that can at the least make it so you’re not punished nearly as hard for committing to an action since you know it was the best choice (rule of thumb) to do before anything else in said given scenario.
Hey ramsey, i practice kick boxing and mma, usted to do some, jujitsu but I have to leave because of my work schedule, i am returning soon to a diferente academy I was a, blue belt but feel like returning to white because I feel rusty, what do you think, also need some poners for sparring with smaller oponentes (I am 190mts its like 6, 2 feet) thanks
Because it's just pain, there is no risk of breaking an arm or passing out. That is what people think at least, I am not agreeing just providing an answer. But honestly it shouldn't even be necessary. A ref should stop it before the fighter would want to tap. Edit: once again, I don't agree with the supposition I put foreword, personally I think tapping to strikes is smart if you don't think you can win the fight, why take more damage.
I vaguely remember seeing someone tap out to ground n pound strikes. Was yrs ago. I think maybe a ufc match, possibly a smaller venue. But I think the unwanting of taps to strikes is due to boxing. Instead of tapping, they either drop and stay down, or sit in the corner not returning strikes until the ref steps in. But I think verbal taps(I'm done, I quite) are still a thing. We just dont always associate it with physical taps.
Very interesting topic. I think the time delay between the injury and its effects showing up has a lot to do with it. Perhaps there's a bit more bravado with strikes that is definitely not in the fighters' interests, which is a shame. I haven't taken any hard shots to the head as that has been discouraged whenever I've sparred (to limit injury). But, I've taken some fairly hard judo throws that are just plain jarring (osoto gari can be particularly brutal). As I'm getting older, I have a lot more appreciation for protecting yourself in the long term. I'm starting to take a bit of interest in BJJ, will probably go visit a local place once this coronavirus stuff cools down a bit.
Well so throwing things is very important to human beings, we have words like project, which is throwing, or subject, which is thrown under, even the term to throw a punch now as I think about it. Maybe some people feel that you're supposed to catch punches. With your face.
I guess, just like any problem this one has many reasons. From my point of view it goes lile this. From a fighters perspective it's the result of interaction with pure striking sports like boxing, kickboxing, karate etc. In these sports giving-up is not an option, or, more precisely, not a commonly used option. You team still can throw a towel if something goes reeeealy wrong, but in most cases it's about ending the match by whether knockout or judges decision. From a audience perspective, I guess, it's related to the fact that a lot of people can imagine the result of broken arm or leg, even those who don't have any fighting experience. Being hit in a head - on the other hand - isn't something that easy to picture in your head. I don't know why but that's the fact. When I got my first serious hit it was like something I didn't expect, it's a kind of experience that s impossible to describe to a person who hasn't exeprienced the same. That's why, I guess, it's hard for a people watching a show to relate to a situation when a fighter is being beaten up. On one hand, they do understand (analytically) that it's not a freaking disneyland, on the other hand - they don't have that experience that could help them to feel kind of sensitive empathy (emotionally).
I think the obvious reasons thag this became a thing is because most casual fans who are not fighters themselves dont want to see a sport, they want to see a bloodbath. They cheer when a submission is an instant break with no chance to tap, like the standin armbar by aoki. They said UFC was weak when they did away the head stomping of PRIDE. They quickly forget those people they cheered so loudly for when the sport permanently cripples and forgets them, like when Anderson Silva's foot connected to his kneecap. People who have been submitted or knocked out themselves are much less thirsty for blood, and are more interested in higher ideals, like the progress towards technical perfection
I think the people calling other folks names for tapping to strikes are fools. If you're in danger in a fight and you know you can't defend yourself, tapping out is just smart.
I think you can only believe that it’s weak move if you’ve never been in this type of situation, as in never really had a fight.
Basically, weaklings call everyone else weaklings, it’s so typical.
P.s.: or they’ve been in a fight, but only against much weaker opponents. These types are also the least confident men in existence, that’s why they have a need to... blablabla, baby psychology, you get the point.
@@deadrussianliberal2897 true
Mario "he's still twitching" Yamasaki
Well taping is better than more of brain cells dying 😅😅😅 totally agree
what are brain cells?
BJJMTF the only cell you have with that question
@@BJJMTF google it out bro
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Goog?
A lot of people have never experienced anything like it. That trapped feeling that increases with every blow, while at the same time every blow takes a little more of your ability to think and plan.
Could it also have to do with seeing movie characters shrug off punches, or recovering quickly from them with no long term effects?
A lot of people seem to have an unrealistic idea of what kind of damage punches do. A movie character gets knocked out, wakes up in a new situation and then continues their adventure like nothing happened.
There's also this disturbing trend nowadays of describing someone on the receiving end of a brutal beating(usually by a mob) as them getting "roughed up a bit".
For sure, movies and TV have a powerful effect on how people view violence. For most people aesthetic trumps function when it comes to how they process danger. Take for example, a survey of American citizens when shown pictures of automatic rifles. Most of the people surveyed agreed that the rifles with the “friendly looking” wooden stocks were less dangerous than the all black rifles with the polycarbonate plastic stocks. Even though both rifles were mechanically identical. Why? Because the bad guys in R rated movies always carry black rifles while the heroes of the classic G-rated bloodless cowboy westerns used wooden stocks.
@@RamseyDewey Ha, didn't know about the rifle example. I do think in that case giving people a choice like that in a survey often makes them think they absolutely have to make a choice one way or the other. They'll forget they can also say they look equally dangerous.
I believe that's how they got the results for that ridiculous "brown cows make chocolate milk" survey too.
For spectators maybe but I doubt it affects the fighters that should be doing the tapping
@@ausmarkb Yes, I should have been more clear. I was talking specifically about the audience's reaction to tapping to strikes.
@@ShoRyuBarbie, then you make a fair point. I'm sure there is a subconscious influence on some audience members at least. We all form ideas/opinions about things based on personal references and when you've never been hit, your personal references about what it's like to be hit can only be based on what you've seen. I suspect there'd be plenty that would deny the point you're making in reference to themselves but that's largely because they're not consciously aware of it and they'd want to make sure that people know that they "know the difference between movies and real life", yet they haven't had the real life experience.
I watched a UFC fight not too long ago I forgot the names,but what happened was that a fighter took heavy blows all round but did not get knock out or submitted so he surrendered at stoppage time.When you know you can't take it anymore surrendering is better than long term injuries.
I've been watching a bit of bare knuckle boxing lately and fighters giving up between rounds is pretty common. Giving in mid-round doesn't happen too much, but is still treated as normal.
I was a little confused as an MMA fan at first, but it's smart (and usually still "makes sense" as a viewer - you know who took the brunt end most of the time).
I used to take part in a couple of amateur mma fights, and I didn't even know that you may tap out to strikes. so if I had been at the receiving end of that beating I guess I would have just take it unless a referee stopped it or got KO'd. thank God that didn't happen
There's an interesting segment of Thomas Fewtrell's "Boxing Reviewed" (1790) where he's evaluating Broughton's rules and proposing a new ruleset. In it he mentions a practice of seconds dragging fighters to scratch and standing them up just for them to be knocked down again, well past the point them having a hope of being able to fight.
Just flicking through it again. This is a cool quote regarding "manliness" in fighting:
"Activity is in our time a greater requisite than it formerly was; for Shifting which consists in the changing of ground, is more practised. Some have censured Shifting as an unmanly custom, but without reason. If indeed mere brutal force were to decide a combat, it might be deemed improper; but where the mind has a considerable case as present, Shifting cannot be thought unmanly... The old school furnishes a surpring instance of bottom [ability to withstand blows]. The noted Burkhorse made a practice of standing without a guard, and permitting himself to be knocked down by the hardest hitter, for a trifling sum of money."
The next paragraph then explains the concept of training.
I thought about it a few times and the best viable option to get the fight finished if you cannot get out of it and do not want to have the "embarrasment" and critique of tap out from strikes is to give away a submission if possible
The answer to your question is within your lesson.
2:53 just wanna also throw in pride being a HUGE factor for the receiving end lol some folks dont know when to quit...so the ref quits for em
ramsay you should talk about the sakuraba grounded slaps
I think when people see strikes (particularly punches) they may associate it to other striking sports in particular boxing matches, which when their is one fighter with a big advantage over the other it many times gets resolved by knockout / referee decision and you don't see tap out, given for how this has happened for so long, it's part of the fighting tradition or culturally, it's assumed that is how striking is going to get resolved.
When you are caught in a submission you have basically lost with no way out. When you are receiving ground and pound and you are not out cold, you can still possibly get out.
I think that's the difference in mentality.
Hello Ramsey. In one of your videos you talked about consequences if someone would die in MMA fight and explained that there are no legal consequences. Could you please go deeper into this topic? What if fighter died because rules were broken? could referee or organization be held responsible for fighters death in any way? Could you please explain more about this topic? I also remember a fight long ago when Japanese fighter Yuki Nakai fought some French guy and he was left blind because of eye pokes, do you have any information about how it ended for French guy? did he have any legal problems or got away with it?
You sign a legally binding death waver before a fight. If you die, you die. In my last fight, my opponent loaded his wraps, broke my skull in multiple places and left me blind in one eye. He went on to fight in the UFC. That’s the fight game. It’s not “da streetz” where the criminal justice system holds your hand if you get a boo boo.
@@RamseyDewey I see. thank you for answer.
Yes tapping is the smart thing to do instead of trying to get your head beat in
It should not be dishonorable to tap out to strikes, after all there is just as much at stake or even more if the ref for some reason is allowing the fight to go on too long. Broken limb vs submission tap, or brain damage vs tap out to strikes. After all it’s still a sport, right?
People who don't understand how difficult it is to reverse the situation when you are punched full force on the face have never been probably been punched themselves and should be ASAP. I also think that as people are used to good see good referees stopping fights after 3-4 punches ( at most) aganist someone who cannot defend himself, they rarely see bad referees leaving the fight go on until one of the fighters is reduced to pulp, and so they think the fighter can " keep on" because they don't tell a desperate situation from a manageable one . As for the grappling, sometimes fighters tap out long before they are doomed , but they panic ; but your average joe knows nothing about grappling and so cannot understand what is going on and so cannot show his " blame" for the "early tap ". And by the way, there should never be stigma on tapping out because safety first, expecially for non professionals.
I think this it it. As a casual fan, I can’t always tell how bad the holds are. But punches to the head are way more obvious.
Beyond the pure entertainment aspect of it. I think it probably comes from dueling culture. Once dueling to first blood or to the death became no longer socially acceptable. I suspect that the values of dueling reflected onto classical boxing by nature of it being a combat sport
Joanna J did against thug rose.
if someone gets o top of you and they land like 3 good shots and you know your not coming back from those shots with him still about to punch you in the face anymore then you should tap. rather quit then loose a tooth or break your jaw just to say you took a knockout instead of quiting. is it not enough to say the other person was a better fighter on that day? besides its not really quitting if the moment he lands the last strike its over anyway if your gonna get knocked out so whats the point of taking more damage
Could taking your hand away from your face, assuming you are covering up, be dangerous and scary to do while being pounded as you are leaving your face there to be battered ?
Tap out verbally or with your feet
Q n A with the Coach:
What's your opinion of ring girls and trash-talking in the culture of combat sports?
Oh wow, I have a shocking amount of stuff to say about ring girls!
@@RamseyDewey Yay...can't wait to hear what you have to say about them.
I guess because they figure if you can tap then you could put your guard up or strike back? Or work on improving your position with your hands instead of tapping?That tapping would be taking the weak man's way out? Conner is a tapper he gets away with it.. I'm not sure 😕
Millions of people who already hated Connor McGreggor gave him a hard time for tapping out to a neck breaking technique that would have otherwise killed him.
What do you guys think the most important skill is in fighting in terms of skills like footwork, timing, balance/stability
Footwork is how you move your feet in order to execute a particular stand up fighting technique. Every technique has its own footwork. If your footwork is off, you will never connect with your target. If your timing is off, you will never connect with your target. If you lack balance and stability, then you have more pressing and immediate issues in life than prize fighting.
Fights are won with effective striking, effective grappling, and effective aggression. Aggressiveness, being able to put some violence in your violence, is often the missing ingredient that unsuccessful fighters lack the most. Aggressiveness is also one of the first things a new student can learn that can allow them any level of success in fighting in spite of their lack of experience.
Thx a lot Ramsey
CTE is a serious problem in strinking arts.
If you need your brain (>80% of all working people) on a competitive level there is no reason to maim yourself.
Tap
I didnt hear about that until this video lmao,¿maybe its not a thing in Colombia?
I come from boxing not mma, so I just assumed that people don't tap to ground and pound because they didn't want to give up their guard which protects their face. I mean, you have to open the guard and move your arm and hand somewhere where you can tap in an obvious manner, don't you?
No. You can verbally tap or tap with your feet as well.
@@RamseyDewey Thanks for the answer.
Being shamed for tapping out to strikes is a holdover from striking traditions like boxing, which were relatively ignorant of the long-term consequences of repeated brain trauma.
Toughness meant being mentally able to withstand a browbeating, only to turn the tables with a skilled or lucky haymaker.
The operative word however, to is “withstand.” If toe-to-toe in the middle of the ring on equal footing, then yeah, withstand.
But if someone has mounted you, you no longer have the upper hand, literally, and your disadvantage negates all of your “toughness,” making a show of your courage pointless and futile.
You should be able to tap out to ground and pound. But it will take a long time for fighting cultures to catch up with the reality of the laws of physics in that regard. Pugilistic people tend to be extremely stubborn and in a sense, hard headed.
I think from the audience perspective it's probably from pro wrestling. Well from my generations at least but idk the origins
I think it's a hangover from boxing culture. There is no "honorable" way to submit in boxing. You're expected to fight till you can't fight anymore, you're expected to go beyond that point and have the corner through in the towel for you. because in boxing you still have a punches chance.
That mentality has crossed over to MMA. But in MMA, when you get mounted you no longer have a punchers chance, and if you can't escape, you will be beaten to pulp. Yet that boxing mentality remains.
That's a good point. Beatings are way more one sided in mma.
It's weird you can take a knee from a body shot but yeah it's rare to see that from head punches.. It has happened though
You get a grapplers chance xD. But seriously, mma rule changes like removing soccer kicks, knees to the head of a downed opponent, 12 to 6 elbows, etc. have made KO,s more difficult - these rules hurt the fighters because they don't get knocked out that easy when they are down, thus more dain bramage!
In boxing if you don't respond to hits for too much time there is the tko anyway, for what I see when you tap to a lock there isn't quite literally anything you can do except undergoing a insufferable amount of pain until your arm get snapped. With hits, at least in theory, you can grab the opponent's arms, try to respond, parry, and trying to turn the situation or survive until the end of the round, it's not signed fate like in a lock.
not to mention the strikes from a ground and pound are more powerful then stand up punches. Randy Couture for example had his stand up strikes tested on a fight science show. his stand up punches were around 500 lbs of force, which isn't really anything compared to a pro boxer but when he was mounted and doing the ground and pound they were over 4 times as powerful. so just imagine if a person was a truly gifted striker who was mounted on top of you doing a ground and pound. if said Mixed martial artist had the striking force of your average boxer:880 lbs and was mounted on top of you, that strike would be over 3,520 lbs of force
When you are an amateur fighter, your health should be your No 1 priority! You won't have any benefits from getting your head bashed in and longterm CTE
That doesnt really change if you become a pro fighter. Health is always more important than a fight
@Kuuryo what does money help you if you have lasting brain damage?
@@SebastianSchachner IT dose change risk reward if you know your families going to be secure financially from fighting .
@@ChristianParkesArt I dont think that going through your mind if your head gets smashed in
@@SebastianSchachner That's like asking an F1 driver how does money help if they go flying off the track and into the concrete wall at 140mph. Well it doesn't, but if they don't crash and win they stand to gain an awful lot, it's a calculated risk and those who aren't willing to take it will never be the best at anything.
Even without getting into ground and pound, brain damage is a serious possibility in sports like boxing or American football. The only way to ensure it'll never happent to you is not to play. But if you don't play you can't win...
I think it's that the effects of having your limb snapped or being choked out are immediately apparent to anyone watching or participating in a fight, but humans have a tendency to overlook long term consequences of actions so the effects of getting repeatedly concussed are overlooked as you won't immediately get CTE as soon as the other guy starts ground-and-pounding you.
If fighters immediately got irreparable brain damage as soon as they took 6 or more undefended strikes to the head, people would probably tap to strikes more as the consequences of not tapping would be immediately apparent and not something you have to deal with some years later.
I think you got it just right and just to add on to your point, by the time fighters have brain damage they are usually out of the public eye since their fighting careers are over and at that point people definitely don't care as much.
@@MrDude180 Yeah, all that combined with the fact that most striking sports don't give fighters a way to quit in the midst of the action. You either get KO'd, your corner throws in the towl for you or you quit on the stool after having taken some punishment already. So when someone comes from the boxing or kickboxing culture into MMA, their instinct isn't to give up in the middle of a round and that impacts the culture of MMA as a whole.
Tap to a guy holding you in an uncomfortable position for a few seconds and no one bats an eye. Tap to a guy bludgeoning you while on top of you on the ground after half a minute and everyone loses their minds!(?)
maybe it's because in most if not all combat sports that do not include grappling, there isn't really an option for a fighter to just admit defeat in the middle of a round. either they get knocked out, the ref stops the fight, or their corner throws in the towel, but the fighter doesn't say "I'm done" and calls off the rest of the fight. whereas submission grappling has the option to tap out as a long standing tradition for training and competition, where you are basically encouraged to tap out before serious damage occurs.
I mean unless they're fighting Lomachenko.
A lot of fighters in the early days of MMA brought some *really* bad practices from their parent sports. That's where MMA gets its extreme weight cutting from, old college wrestlers like Randy Couture. I actually remember seeing an interview where Couture talks about how, in the early days of the sport, a lot of wrestlers-turned-mixed-martial-artists would just practice MMA by... doing MMA, the same way a wrestler would practice wrestling every day, but every different from how a boxer practices boxing. So these guys would be punching each other in the head every day. There's actually some decent anecdotal evidence that extreme weight cuts might hurt performance. Look at Robert Whittaker- 3-2 in his first five UFC bouts at 170, and then 9-1 at 185, with 7 fight bonuses.
@@IncredibleMD boy, did you come to the right channel for decent anecdotal evidence. Look up Ramsey Dewey weight cut.
There is a way to tap out, you can just say you are done, stop fighting, turn your back away or take out your mouthguard. It rarely happens on pro level, but in amateur fights it is not that rare. Maybe normalising it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, of course, people enjoy seeing someone get beat down and knocked out, but being an amateur fighter myself, I care more about the safety of it.
@@wszczeklypiesz I haven't seen many amateur fights, and have no desire to become a fighter myself, so I was not aware of that. But I agree that it ought to be more normalized.
i feel that you got it correct. Tappingout to a sumbission is ok because it causes long term damage that could hinder your whole life. whereas tapping to strikes is frowned up because people either want the ref to stop it or see you go out. but going out multiple times can also cause long term damage. worse than any submission will do. being choked out and being knocked out have very different effects. but you know this from your experience with head trauma.
If people want to either see you go out or have the referee stop I don't understand why would tapping out to a choke be fine
Smart move by him. What do I get if I tap out? Less damage less pain maybe I save a few teeth. What do I get if I don't tap out? Well I keep getting beat up.
"What do I get if I don't tap out?" If you're a professional fighter you might be more popular (because people for some reason often find it to be more "warrior-like") and hence earn more fights and therefore more money.
Don't get me wrong, I personally don't think it's a worthy trade, just offer an explanation why many choose to wait for the referee.
I've often asked myself the same thing when I've seen MMA fans ridicule fighters who tap to strikes. Do they imagine getting your head caved in with strikes while being held down by the opponent in a dominant position to be a less worthy situation to submit to than a choke? In that case, why?
I feel a lot better now. I've never been ground and pounded like that before, but it was eye opening. Getting repeatedly smashed into the ground is so different than catching a strike or two while standing.
Yep!
Yep! Gravity assisted strikes hit different LOL.
Tapping out to submissions but not strikes, comes from the rule sets of the martial arts that these techniques come from: you can tap out in BJJ, but not boxing/kickboxing. Just a matter of tradition.
That makes sense
After my last fight my eye was being worked on by my coach in the back room I asked did I win i can't remember the end of the fight. He laughed and said no. Getting pounded on the ground is no joke kinda wish it ended sooner
It used to be ok. I've seen earlier UFC fights where ppl tapped. It's weird for sure. Honestly I'm one of those who demonizes the ufc a bit because I feel they try to incentivise destructive behavior. So I personally suspect the UFCs attitude and selection bias favors the do or die fighters in a way that it's reflected in the behavior of their fighters, who are the most prestigious fighters in general, so it effects the culture at large by setting the norm. The highest level is done this way, so you need a good reason to make ppl really question it. They give a bonus for finishes and tapping to strikes isn't seen as allowing the opportunity for what they see as a legitimate "finish". They still maintain a bit of the fantasy narrative that this is supposed to approximate a street fight death match.
Do or die fighters? Combat sports in general is do or die and many of them have that mentality from the start I think because of the mindset you'd need in a real fight. The ufc definitely incentivizes this but they give an extra push for what's already there basically. It's more an incentive for not stopping the finish. They've already decided to KO them but that bonus prevents them from 2nd guessing their decision.
Anguel Roumenov Bogoev I agree with you. The UFC does not respect the athletes they deem as not being entertaining enough, and sometimes they just get rid of them altogether. Meanwhile the UFC exalts the ignorant trash talkers, so long as they get the big wins. UFC is about money, and advertising, not about martial arts.
Fighters: Is it normal not to be 100% if you're in a ground'n'pound?
Everybody else: How do they survive that?
I think it's because people overestimate how much damage they can take and punches are seen as weaker compared to takedowns or kicks. Which is technically true, but it adds up
I did not even wait for the GNP to tap out on my first loss in an amateur bout. It was my first time to get hit on my solar plexus and i fell on the canvas before he could even land 1 single gnp i tapped lol.
It takes real courage to admit defeat. Live to fight another day. Reflect on our mistakes and learn how to become better. 😎
Mario "The Coroner" Yamasaki
tapping out due to strikes really should become acceptable. I saw two MMA fights where the ground and pound went on waaaaay too long, and both times it was the same referee but at different events. Sure we wanna see action...violence even, but the fighters have to live to fight another day
Mario Yamazaki: the "Finish the Fight" Achievement
in UFC Undisputed 3 for Xbox 🤣 It's just toxic personality
That was such a good game
Had to look it up, but its getting 3-4 punches in after a tko? 😱
Don't quit because something went wrong; quit because you tried your hardest, but still, nothing made it better.
The referee should have stopped that sooner. When the ref is not doing their job it's ok to tap to strikes imo
Maybe he was still intelligently defending himself and his opponent was just punching through his guard or really hammering on him. Getting pounded on doesn't mean you've lost. Brock Lesnar got absolutely mauled in one of his fights, but since he was intelligently defending and working to improve the whole time, the ref (I think it was Herb Dean) didn't stop the fight, and he later went on to get the victory.
Martial arts up until recently was all about the striking Before MMA boxing, karate,and kung fu were the recomended fighting styles with wrestling relagated to a Circus side show the base template for ring fighting rules comes from those striking cultures that knock out as opposed to tap out I cant really think of any striking arts that have a tap out making knock out the default expectation
Something to do with not appreciating the injury risks. Lots of people think it’s just pain or an off switch. But teeth get removed, orbital bones get shattered, noses break which actually affect you the rest of your life. Eyeballs get injured. Equilibrium can be permanently messed up. And your brain can actually get damaged too. Doesn’t always happen but It’s common enough.
Mario “I still detect brain activity” Yamasaki
If your getting paid millions I could see where it would be bad to tap to strikes, but if your an amateur who’s paying to compete it’s smart to live to fight another day.
I got some pressure testing tonight with my army friend. He weighs 200. And knows the same Jiu-jitsu I do.
I surprised him a few times. And I didn't get gassed out this time.
💯💁🏻♀️🥋
I thought about this when I recently watched the fight with the Sandman where he didn’t tap out when his arm was being bent backwards in an arm bar ,but when he started ground pounding Alcantara in the third round and looked at the ref ,he gave a look at the ref of,”come on ,man,call the fight”. Made absolutely no sense for Alcantara not to tap out when he was being beaten like that . Of course ,I thought the ref was negligent as well.
I don't know about you guys, but even from the perspective of a viewer, I think fights that end in submissions due to strikes to be awesome. It's really easy to beat on a guy for few seconds until a third party thinks your opponent has had enough, but it's SUPER impressive when someone beats on a professional fighter hard enough that HE goes "nah, I'm good".
Guys like Mighty Mouse, with 12 of their 30 wins coming by extremely technical holds and manipulation of their opponent's joints, are impressive; but so is being such a monstrous physical force that your opponent (a literal professional at being hit) just gives up to you hitting them.
I actually prefer submission finishes (be they to strikes or grappling) to KOs to TKOs to decisions. Hitting someone so hard the rational and logical part of their mind decides to voluntarily give up is a lot more impressive than hitting them so hard their body just shuts down. Your opponent can only control one of those things.
Could the showmanship aspect of pro fighting be at play? For one, a ground and pound is very visceral and exciting to a lot of viewers; they want to see that K.O. Also I think it gives viewers more of a feeling that the defender could turn things around and cause an upset from such a position, but have no such feeling when a submission has obviously been sunk in.
I think the idea of "never give up" is found throughout our culture - hell, how many of our fictional heroes are exemplified by the idea that they never give up and keep on fighting until they simply can't fight anymore? It's part of our cultural psyche; it doesn't extend into submissions because tapping out has been accepted as being a part of submissions for as long as submissions have existed (although there is still an element of it in fiction; if you look at pro-wrestling for example, the heroic characters rarely out of a submission - they pass out instead and the referee calls for the bell. It's always 'the cowardly villains' that tap out; and the crowd will often taunt them for having done so after the fact).
I think that society still has a lot of this machismo attitude to it and I think that it's probably something that will go away in time. Part of the perception might also be that if you're in a submission hold and you can't get out of it then tapping is now you're only option; whereas with strikes, there's the perception that you can still move and defend yourself (even if a fighter evidently can't). I have seen a few fighters tap out to ground and pound, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Hell, a fighter can quit at any time they want and for any reason they want, although I think it's only worth ragging on them for it if they didn't try their best.
Tapping out doesn't mean that you weren't trying your best. It just means you didn't want brain damage. NO FIGHT is worth brain damage.
Love the videos as usual Ramsay great info
Gloves that’s it
If you aren’t waring gloves you can’t take more than one or two hits so it’s much harder to get brain damage
You can’t blitz someone in the face and it look fine while they are getting brain damage
I think that getting choked out or your arm snapped is inevitable and there is nothing you can do about it once your opponent gets you in that position, so people realize its not about how tough you are and its a game over, as if someone points a gun to your head. however, when it comes to strikes, its a question of how tough you are because supposedly, if you are tough enough, you can take it and find your way out. if you can overcome then you should. now in my personal view, i agree that if someone is riding on your back raining punches to your head and you see you cant escape and the fight isnt stoped, you should tap. there is no point in getting further strikes until your skull gets cracked. you should feel when there is nothing you can do and tap.
Getting TKOd should be just like when you don't tap to a sub and the ref pulls you off
That IS what a TKO is in MMA.
1000th like here👍👍👍
Mario "If they can crawl they can brawl" Yamasaki
honestly if anyone makes fun of you for tapping out to strikes, just point out to them that five time world strongman mariusz pudzianowski submitted to Tim Sylvia by strikes
I remember in early UFC days (2004-2007) there was a stigma against tapping out to even submissions. Chuck Liddell went on Letterman and said "I've never tapped. Been put to sleep once, but never tapped." Like depriving your brain of oxygen for a good 1-5 seconds is the better alternative. Michael Bisping, also an old school guy, said on his podcast after the GSP fight, he knew that choke was tight but he'd rather be put to sleep than tap. Full respect to both those guys of course, but that's a foolish line of reasoning.
Both GSP and Joanna lost their titles tapping out to strikes. I don't think they got much flack for it, and rightfully so. I understand the fighter's ego not wanting to look like he's quitting, but for fans to get on him I find deplorable.
Not tapping isn’t necessarily “foolish”.
It is well within reason for a pro to say or think “if I can tap I can fight and TRY to get out” or “I knew what I signed up for, I’ve been choked out before, it is a risk I am willing to take to attempt to escape”
The difference between winning and losing a championship UFC fight can literally be millions of dollars. Change your family’s life forever money.
Most people would be willing to risk going out for a few seconds for that.
I get the other side of it as well, but neither side needs to be “foolish” just because you don’t share their perspective or priorities.
Hey man, i loved the flow of you rolling, looks cool. Yeah I had a concussion back in the day, I was f- up for a week. I was really scared it wouldn't get better. That was one of the fights I won on points.
I've wondered this too. We live in bizarro world.
Gsp tapped to strikes against serra, he did okay afterwards.
ultimately i am of the opinion that every Mixed martial artist has been on the end of a choke, armbar, etc so they know the feeling of being in that position. since grappling is a major part of the art. your average Mixed martial artist couldn't think of ever being in a situation where they might need to tap out because of strikes
The sports of mma is introduced as the Ultimate Fighter Challenge..i think people generally imply that this is The top of the bill wen it comes to allround combative fights,this should be the sport that beats everything.So if a fighter makes it to this level of fighting,expectations are high and people don't want to be disappointed i think.
Igor Vovchanchyn made 2 men quit from strikes, in the same night (it was a 8-man tournament). First one was Fred Floyd, much taller and weighing almost twice as much as Igor. Then Vovchanchyn won by dropping Paul Varelans. The second man who quit from strikes was John Dixson, in the tournament final.
I wrote ''quit'' because they weren't on the ground when it happened, they were standing up, but signaled the ref they give up.
Igor was supernatural. He was on another level so I can easily see smart people tapping to anything he was going to do.
What do you think about the influences of ETs (god vs god warfare in Sumerian, Chaldean, Biblical, Vedas and other ancient text) on combat culture in human beings?
I actually discussed that topic in this video (interestingly enough, also about Master Wong)
ruclips.net/video/KslFfpRAI-4/видео.html
Nice timing! This saturday at Bellator 248 there was tapping to ground and pound by Ryan Scope (vs. Alan Omer) but the tapping was "hard" to see because he used his hands to cover up his head, so the referee didn't see the tapping and ended the fight some seconds later
He should have used his voice to verbally tap and/or his feet.
4:23 back in my day..... Lol
Mario "morituri te salutant" Yamazaki
That's tricky. In a boxing match if you tap it's seen as a choice to quit. Whereas in a grappling match it seems you have no other options. True or not, its a matter of perception. On that note though, your corner NEEDS to protect you!! If you're being wrecked, then their whole purpose is to save you from yourself and that unnecessary whooping. Equally important to some, your reputation as a "warrior" can be preserved by removing the "quitter" connotation.
Its the refs job to protect you, but if they arent protecting you then you gotta protect yourself. 30-40 seconds of GnP and no stoppage is ludicrous. Assuming there was no legitimate attempt to defend or improve position
excelent video Ramsey. I don't know where it all started but I think a lot of it has to do with movies and vestern sports boxing. And I think some people like blood and extreme violence.
Now I'm not advocating the use of these things, but there is a reason why psychedelics (psilocybin, LSD, DMT and others) have been legalized in Denver, Colorado and several cities in California and is on the ballot in several other states.
There is mounting evidence being provided by universities such as Harvard, UC Berkley and many independent/ out of country scientists demonstrating that these drugs regenerate dead neurons (in other words heal brain damage, to what degree I cannot definitively say) and increase inter-connectivity of the brain (meaning your brain can respond faster and more efficiently to environmental stimuli).
I have experience with brain damage (many concussions and a suicide attempt with bleach just made life foggy and confusing) and experience with the drugs psilocybin and LSD (large trip doses of both drugs and a stint of micro dosing with LSD).
I no longer feel the need to micro dose. My reflexes are better than they ever were (feel like I'm in the matrix so to speak) my articulation is top tier, I learn things faster. Its almost like I went from seeing life in 720p 30fps to seeing life in 4k 60fps.
Now it's important to note, I only believe tripping worked for me (used as a tool to alleviate myself of depression, anxiety and most of my PTSD "symptoms", still working that out) due to the way I prepared my mind before hand.
1. Breathing techniques (see: Wim Hof method for an in depth scientific look at breathing), specifically yogic breathing, helped to keep me present whilst on high trip doses of these substances. If I did not utilize these, my trips could have ended a lot worse (highest trip dose being 1000 ugs of LSD).
2. Philosophy. A lot of people scoff at philosophy but this is due to their perception of it. Every human being on earth has a philosophy. Hitler had a philosophy. I say that to show that not all philosophy is "good", and some philosophies can lead you down very dark roads. If your philosophy is a weak one, you could end up with a gun in your mouth, as the realizations you come to on these drugs can be quite shocking, as they were for me (truly understanding the vastness of the universe, concepts like eternity and infinity, ect.)
I pulled my philosophy from people such as Marcus Aurelius, Sun Tzu, Miyamoto Musashi, Laozi and the works of Eckhart Tolle. I wouldn't say you must study these people and their works but by utilizing the mental tools that they provide I was able to navigate my trips in a healthy way, that led me to bettering myself and eventually to experiencing peace, contentment.
3. I started with micro-dosing. This was just to get a feel for the drug and to understand what I could handle. Start small and if you've prepared your mind, feel free to work your way up.
All of this being said, again I'm totally not advocating the use of these substances. This has just been a comprehensive guide as to how you can safely use these substances if you ever were to try them.
***FINAL SAFETY NOTE***
TEST KITS, TEST KITS, TEST KITS. Psyched substances is a channel that recommends reputable test kit websites, don't feel like grabbing the link myself.
Also, its waaaaay easier to get dirty LSD than it is to get dirty shrooms, careful out there
mma, kickboxing, muay thai, box, etc are brutal arts just for true warriors & crazy people. I totally avoid sparring and don't care If they call me chicken or a wimp xD... I love wrestling and rolling btw :D
If someone in the UFC submitted to strikes, they would be fired for 'giving up' . When fighters tap to leg locks, they know that they've been beaten. You tap so you can keep your limb and fight another day, acknowledging defeat. However when it's your brain (responsible for memory, cognition, etc) you're just supposed to take every blow. Even if you can't fight anymore, and even though your brain takes the MOST permanent type of damage.
Can't a corner throw the towel in MMA?
Throwing in the towel is a foul in MMA. You’ll be disqualified for doing it. So, yeah, you can- and it will end the fight. But it’s officially against the rules.
To be honest I don't even know HOW to tap out in striking... All I've known is t.k.o. or throwing the towell. Phisicall conditionning is my weak spot (health issues does not go well with 9 to 5 jobs) and most gyms I've been where okay but I just did not feel safe for this kind of thing but its highly frowned upon.... I had it taken as lazyness, cowardice and even disrespect. Specially in gyms with a handfull of belts and trophys...
The hand to hand border brawl on the Line of Actual control between China and India resulted in 48 casualties from head injuries and exposure from falling into the river... 24 hours later?!?!
I am a bjj blue belt with no mma experience at all. Right now we have a professional mma fighter training with us. Sometimes we roll with him while he has his gloves on. He would just mark the punches which is great because it gives you a remote idea of how it feels when strikes are involved and gives you an understanding on how bjj changes under these conditions. On one occasion he trapped my left arm while I was in bottom half guard lying on my right side and it was just raining knuckles. He wouldn't stop for about 30 seconds. If that had been for real I would have ended up really, REALLY badly. Why should it be bad to tap out in such a situation if the punches are for real? It is your health and it's your life.
This is why I don't like when the Gracie's refuse to tap to joint locks, to me it's honorable to admit defeat and save your knee joint for a real fight when you're going to need it
Well honestly that was tko, I've never seen someone tap out to strikes that you couldn't make case of a tko besides a few of Bob Sapp's dives. It's wierd when somebody obvious giving up their back because of ground and pound, gets rnc (sometimes you can see them give up there neck too) but they don't nobody says anything
If you look at the culture behind submissions, in bjj is already established that you must tap out or you are an idiot, in striking martial arts it's not. When we watch boxing, kickboxing, etc, the fight normally gets decided by ko, technical ko or point, rarely one side decides to surrender. It's the culture embedded in the martial art that goes carried into MMA. Now MMA can change it if they adopt the culture behind bjj.
Hey Ramsey, can you do a video on some fighting rules of thumb? Just essential things you should know if possible. An example of this would be if you can’t back up, don’t lean forward. Seen a guy get flying knee’d because he did this. Or to keep your elbows in when during guard play. Another example would be of jocko willink explaining in a guard pass concept video when in someone’s guard you would not want to put your knees both down trying to pass, but get into a kneeling position so you can pass easier and don’t have to work to get into the position from your knees if you don’t have to. Not necessarily techniques or moves, but positioning or concepts that will outplay your opponent or at the least make what you do as safe as possible while going for something or having something being done to you. Anything that can at the least make it so you’re not punished nearly as hard for committing to an action since you know it was the best choice (rule of thumb) to do before anything else in said given scenario.
Hey ramsey, i practice kick boxing and mma, usted to do some, jujitsu but I have to leave because of my work schedule, i am returning soon to a diferente academy I was a, blue belt but feel like returning to white because I feel rusty, what do you think, also need some poners for sparring with smaller oponentes (I am 190mts its like 6, 2 feet) thanks
Because it's just pain, there is no risk of breaking an arm or passing out. That is what people think at least, I am not agreeing just providing an answer. But honestly it shouldn't even be necessary. A ref should stop it before the fighter would want to tap. Edit: once again, I don't agree with the supposition I put foreword, personally I think tapping to strikes is smart if you don't think you can win the fight, why take more damage.
I vaguely remember seeing someone tap out to ground n pound strikes. Was yrs ago. I think maybe a ufc match, possibly a smaller venue.
But I think the unwanting of taps to strikes is due to boxing. Instead of tapping, they either drop and stay down, or sit in the corner not returning strikes until the ref steps in. But I think verbal taps(I'm done, I quite) are still a thing. We just dont always associate it with physical taps.
Very interesting topic. I think the time delay between the injury and its effects showing up has a lot to do with it. Perhaps there's a bit more bravado with strikes that is definitely not in the fighters' interests, which is a shame.
I haven't taken any hard shots to the head as that has been discouraged whenever I've sparred (to limit injury). But, I've taken some fairly hard judo throws that are just plain jarring (osoto gari can be particularly brutal). As I'm getting older, I have a lot more appreciation for protecting yourself in the long term. I'm starting to take a bit of interest in BJJ, will probably go visit a local place once this coronavirus stuff cools down a bit.
Well so throwing things is very important to human beings, we have words like project, which is throwing, or subject, which is thrown under, even the term to throw a punch now as I think about it. Maybe some people feel that you're supposed to catch punches. With your face.
I guess, just like any problem this one has many reasons. From my point of view it goes lile this.
From a fighters perspective it's the result of interaction with pure striking sports like boxing, kickboxing, karate etc. In these sports giving-up is not an option, or, more precisely, not a commonly used option. You team still can throw a towel if something goes reeeealy wrong, but in most cases it's about ending the match by whether knockout or judges decision.
From a audience perspective, I guess, it's related to the fact that a lot of people can imagine the result of broken arm or leg, even those who don't have any fighting experience. Being hit in a head - on the other hand - isn't something that easy to picture in your head. I don't know why but that's the fact. When I got my first serious hit it was like something I didn't expect, it's a kind of experience that s impossible to describe to a person who hasn't exeprienced the same. That's why, I guess, it's hard for a people watching a show to relate to a situation when a fighter is being beaten up. On one hand, they do understand (analytically) that it's not a freaking disneyland, on the other hand - they don't have that experience that could help them to feel kind of sensitive empathy (emotionally).
I think the obvious reasons thag this became a thing is because most casual fans who are not fighters themselves dont want to see a sport, they want to see a bloodbath. They cheer when a submission is an instant break with no chance to tap, like the standin armbar by aoki. They said UFC was weak when they did away the head stomping of PRIDE. They quickly forget those people they cheered so loudly for when the sport permanently cripples and forgets them, like when Anderson Silva's foot connected to his kneecap. People who have been submitted or knocked out themselves are much less thirsty for blood, and are more interested in higher ideals, like the progress towards technical perfection