I bought Matias tactile pro last summer . Used it as my daily driver for about 4 months and have since used it occasionally. Havent had any issues it with it. That is my anecdotal single data point.
I’ve used matias quiet click switches in a matias keyboard daily for about five years. I don’t recall any chattering but I have had four keys fail! The boards are so expensive in Australia it was still economical to buy a box of 100 bare switches and teach myself to solder in replacements.
If you're willing to get a pack of 10 spare switches somewhere and desolder any that chatter it's a fairly safe keyboard to buy. When these switches chatter it can be DISGUSTING and two switches in my TKL build had this issue. One worked just fine with the debounce in QMK turned up to 1, and the other kept chattering no matter what I set it to.
5:19 I own a full-sized Matias transparent-case keyboard that I used to use with a computer that was powered on 24/7. Within about six months, the keyboard stopped registering keypresses reliably or at all and would have to be disconnected from the computer for about half an hour before it would work again. So anecdotally, I think there could be control card (PCB assembly) quality issues with Matias keyboards. With a week of light use, such problems don't have time to manifest themselves.
it's the KBP PCB, i don't think it's anything to do with the matias switches. my KBP 60% matias quiet click had a bad IC (the lil chip) and I got it RMA'd. It came back there *was* actually a problem w/ the matias switch, where one of the contacts broke and it wouldn't move at all. I think this is pretty rare, as I've never heard of this happening to anyone else and I haven't heard of these issues with KBP keyboards since the past 2 years or so.
I've owned 4 keyboards with Matias switches, two in-house brand, two KBParadise. Three of them suffered from mild (Matias Laptop Pro) to severe (two KBParadise V60s) key chatter. The fourth, a Matias Quiet Pro for Mac, was purchased second hand and has been one of my go-to daily driver boards for well over two years.
I'm guessing the Matias keyboards have nothing different inside except longer switch debouncing and that the switches are still chattering just as much on the Matias boards.
Typing on a Matias Quiet Pro makes me want to type an entire encyclopedia in one sitting. It’s incredibly satisfying. I definitely want to try the regular tactile one
On my custom Matias QC board (built from a defective V80 actually), any time I get chatter on a switch, it's always the grease getting into the contact leaves. Try opening up a chattering switch, clean the grease off of the contact leaf side of the slider, and use a thin wipe (I use Kimwipes) and a little rubbing alcohol to clean the contact leaf. Works for me every time. Another thing to check is the USB connector PCB. I discovered that the pins on some of the switches would actually make some contact with the PCB holding the USB connector and would give me tons of issues. I put some thin foam over the PCB and that solved the problem.
I bought this exact keyboard about five months ago, and it chattered extremely badly new out of the box. Each keypress would produce 1 - 6 characters, with six not being a rarity. The spacebar was especially bad. Turned out to be because the switches were badly over-lubricated. I took the worst offenders apart (a painstaking process involving cocktail sticks) and wiped the lubricant off - which fixed the problem entirely. I didn't have the time or inclination to do that for the whole keyboard, though, so after a month of kidding myself it went into the cupboard. Avoid this keyboard with Matias Quiet Click switches!
Interesting. That is an EXCEPTIONALLY bad level of chattering - for a new keyboard even. Interesting also that cleaning off the lubricant fixed it - this would suggest that the Quiet Click switches are more vulnerable to it than the clicky ones.
@@Chyrosran22: I replaced it with a Havit HV-KB390L, a low-profile keyboard with the new Kailh Choc Blue clicky switches. The keycaps are a bit cheap looking (at least the legends aren't in a lame "gamer" font), but I love the feel of it - very fast and precise to type on.
I have the same problem with Matias Quiet Click switches. Spacebar, return, T and R keys are especially bad. The whole thing is unusable w/o software that suppresses chattering. Even then it PIA to use. I'll try removing the lubricant, otherwise I'll get different switches :(
My quiet clicks developed chattering on several keys. Turned out to be broken contact leaves. When they're half-failed, they start chattering. If they're chattering very bad, you can pull the leaf out and it'll either be hanging by a thread, or a piece will be sitting in the bottom of the housing. I've had this keyboard for about a year and a half, and 5 have gone bad so far. I blamed myself for opening the switches and adding lube. Thought I'd damaged the leaves and/or used some corrosive lube. Interesting to see that this one is suffering from chattering as well.
The desoldered switch is shown in this video, but the contacts aren't visibly damaged. Strange that yours are physically falling apart, that's quite extreme Oo .
this happened to mine, one of the switches (A key) stopped registering after chattering a shit-ton. took the switch apart and the leaf was snapped in two. note, i hadn't opened it prior. i don't think i've ever heard of this happening on matias' boards outside of hearing it from this vid, so maybe it's something with kbp as i've heard it very commonly with kbp.
@@Chyrosran22 Everytime I've heard of chattering developing, it's turned out the owner overlubbed the matias switches... I had same issue (with og simplified too) till I learned to use the absolute tiniest amount with them, much less than in a mx switch. My early orange alps seemed to have a hard lacquer style lubricant, during an ergodox build I deliberately removed it from a batch, making them noticeably less smooth, adding modern lube made them chatter annoyingly. I just don't lube alps anymore and leave the original shellac style stuff on by not cleaning them with solvents.
5:43 I've noticed a similar situation with old Cherry MX switches vs. their modern counter parts. Allegedly the new modern ones with gold plated contacts have a longer life time, only for people to report issues a few years later. Yet the old ones are still going strong. A professor I had said something along the lines of "assumptions are not results". While it was meant for something else, I really do think that quote has a lot of merit in many different areas, keyboards included. To bad people have a tendency to compliment their assumptions with excuses should their assumptions be proven false. Luckily these boards aren't given that luxury of getting a free pass.
Sorry for replying to such an old comment, but... The newer switches could 100% be more reliable, only to be let down by cost cutting on modern PCBs and more environmentally friendly soldering. I feel like a lot of the issues people report are more related to shoddy build quality on the rest of the keyboards than to the switches themselves. For example I have an old Packard Bell branded dome-with-slider BTC 51-series board. Excellent typing feel, a nice metal backplate to defend your home with, and a PCB that's about 3-times as thick as any of my modern keyboard's. That PCB is also far less complicated, and I could 100% repair it even with cheap and crappy tools because the components are just so 'uge. And mind you, this was a keyboard the manufacturer literally threw at you with any branded office PC purchase, unlike my rather expensive modern "after market" boards. So yeah, mass produced modern keyboards could easily have worse reliability than older boards, despite having several far more reliable components. You should also factor in that there are far more mechanical keyboards in use nowadays than any time previously. PCs are no longer just curiosities.
I've had two KBP v60 with Matias quiet click. They both ended up in the trash after chattering and non registering keys. Even after switching out the offending switches, new ones started to suffer after a little while. I fucking loved the sound and feel though, and it's been a few years, so I'm almost wanting to try again. They are in a different league compared to mx type switches when it comes to sound and feel. Even zealios don't stand a chance.
Had a Matias quiet for 3 years and once had an issue with some keys double typing. But it was easily fixed by pushing the key sideways while pressing it down (weird but that's what the Matias support told me to do, and it sovled the issue).
@@Jonas.856 I think I own more boards with Matias switches than MX switches now, both from Matias and from PBParadise. The one that started it all, a new production Matias Mini "Tactile" Pro, had some occasional chatter issues with a few keys in the first week or so of daily use. It mysteriously vanished and never came back. Since this was a white keyboard with Mac caps and mapping that was still under warranty, I never modified it to fit my tastes (black and Windows) and eventually gave it to a coworker who likes Apple. They no longer bother producing black clicky boards with Windows layouts ... so I need to Frankenstein them. One of the keys stopped registering a few months later, but when he brought it in for me to look at ... this problem also went away upon just pulling the cap. I wanted to do some more digging, but he just wanted the thing back right away. I think this must have something to do with the contact leaves themselves, maybe misalignment of the pins when soldering to the PCB, or some kind of tolerance issue between the plate and/or PCB and switch. As James said, Matias themselves suggest all sorts of bizarre fiddly solutions ... which often seem to work. All other boards that I own that contain the switches have worked 100% for me. I'm currently typing this using my favorite, a recently-produced V80 with clicky switches transplanted into a beefy aluminum case from Aliexpress. I own just about every variant that Matias has ever made, including the weird security-focused wireless RF model and one of the "ergo" split models, all of various ages (purchased mostly secondhand), although I have only heavily used a few different mini variants that I have modified to be clicky (one clicky with the dampened sliders). I quite like the Matias mini layout and mapping, so I have a considerable amount of time typing on at least 4 different examples of them. I own two brand new V80s, one of which is the one I mentioned I'm using now. The other is a "linear" version of the same, which I have been daily driving at one location at work. I have another V80 that I purchased used that has the dampened tactile switches. All 3 V80s have also worked perfectly so far in my own use of them. I did recently test out an oldschool "tactile pro" that has the older Forward-produced SKBM clones, and almost every single switch in it chatters. I'm thinking that Matias and/or KBParadise and/or Gaote (the current manufacturer of Matias switches, known for their Outemu switches) must have done something to improve reliability over the years, since I'm having a very hard time finding any problems with the newer boards I own. I only partly own all of these boards because of how much I like the switches. It seems the community wrote them off, so I feel like somebody needs to try to get as many of them together as possible with some real-world use to try to clear Matias' name. We need more people making alternatives to MX, so companies like Matias and Unicomp need our support whenever possible. How long ago did you buy those V60s?
@@xb0xisbetter I bought them several years ago, so I guess they where before the retooling. I actually bought a "new" one of those weird wireless RF keyboard a few weeks ago. I only found out after my purchase that it was out of production now, but I still have warranty since I bought it from a store. I saw a bit of chatter in the beginning, but I'm happy to report that it seems to have worn in. I also bought 200 new quiet click switches which I will use with my Planck. I hope that it's possible to make them popular now that the reliability is fixed!
@@Jonas.856 I think Forward stopped making Alps clones in 2012 or so, but it seems like Matias and/or Gaote have been tweaking their replacements ever since. I'm not sure whether or not V60s were even in production yet that long ago. There are brand new RF Matias keyboards still being sold somewhere? I wish production hadn't ceased, even without all of the fancy encryption. I have been tempted to make mine clicky, but they're looking like they may be a pretty scarce variant. I literally have Ebay notify me whenever there are new listings for Matias boards and I think that's the only one I have ever found on there since I set that up about a year ago. Bluetooth sucks in my opinion. It is always annoying to pair if you're going to use it with a lot of different devices, and it takes forever to connect once you've powered whatever peripheral on you're interfacing through it. I've always much preferred dedicated RF dongles or, even better, Logitech's unifying receivers. It is a shame that Logitech seems to prefer mediocre/obscure switches and make pretty ugly boards. I understand that Matias' main demographic now though once the enthusiast market was all but lost must be reduced to Apple fanatics who seem to enjoy torturing themselves with inferior "features". I'm glad to hear your chatter problems also worked themselves out. I hope that's the case of any boards manufactured with them today if they happen to develop chatter. We're facing an uphill battle. It seems like everyone is convinced that you're literally guaranteed to have problems with any board with Matias switches, and that's before being limited almost entirely to Tai-Hao caps and extremely limited PCB and plate options. I think Matias is going to have a harder time breaking back into the mainstream of the enthusiast market than even attempts at SKCM resurrection. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. So many people disregard Alps and clones because there are so few options for customization vs MX ... when the reason there are so few options for Alps is because there hasn't been enough market saturation to justify investment in designing and manufacturing those options. There are a lot of stereotypes and trends that are just taken as gospel, even in keyboards, but I think any interest at all in a hobby with as many choices as we have means we probably still have an above average demographic of people with relatively open minds. For that reason, I have hope that inertia can be reversed on some of these things if enough people disagree with them, and can compellingly explain why.
I have a keyboard with Matias Quiet Clicks as well & it started having chattering issues; according to the people that made it, the lubricant that was used is what causes the issues: I was able to clean out the switches by dripping rubbing alcohol into it and pressing in a bunch, which made the chattering go away.
The Matias quiet click one of the sharpest switches produced. Tacticility twice as strong and twice as sharp as Cherry MX browns." I agree, I returned a Das 4 with browns and kept my Quiet Pro. Typing on this keyboard is unlike anything I've felt before. Thank you for saving me hours of looking at typing switch comparison.
"This keyboard is defective." Yeah ... I had this exact keyboard, and when I got it about half of my keys chattered, just as bad as you describe. There was a break-in period of a month or two where if I used a key enough for a while it would stop, but if I stopped using the key for long it would start doing it again. A couple weeks ago the "i" key started sticking and I just threw the keyboard out. Now using a Drop ALT with Zealpc Zilents and it's absolutely wonderful. Keys feel way better as well, smoother and nowhere near as wobbly and way better tactility. And zero chatter.
I can confirm the chatter problem: I have had several switches replaced on my Quiet Pro. Currently, it is sitting on a shelf, because the backspace chatters. I also owned a Tactile Pro, which was much better. I used that until the E key broke.
I'm actually not surprised, considering how bad Gaote (which produces these switches) has dropped their Quality Control on their own switches (the infamous "Outemu" switches) on the last few years, it's no wonder these new batches of Matias switches have problems. My old Matias Secure Pro from 2013 is still alive and kicking tho'. Same goes for my 2014 Outemu boards, it's just that the new switches are far less reliable.
About the switches; I handwired me an ortho 4 by 12 with Matias Quiet Click and used it for four months at work before upgrading to a Planck with ZealPC’s Silents which in my opinion is better in every way. No chattering issues though.
Why do SO many "quiet keyboards" have these abnormally loud space bars? I got rid of my board with Cherry Silents for this reason. Loved all the keys but that loud-as-a-gunshot spacebar.
It’s more the stabilizers than the switches themselves, honestly. When you have rattle-y stabilizers it tends to be far too loud. Usually with quiet boards fixing that by lubing and/or modifying the stabilizers make them a LOT quieter.
Despite being a big fan of black keyboards, and liking many of the gamery kind of designs, something about how those key caps are pulled off is absolutely perfect, I love them. Kinda reminding me a bit of an old Logitech wireless board I've used...
I own and have modified several kbparadise matias boards. Kbparadise solders on both sides of the board making it hell to replace switches but otherwise they are good boards. Have had trouble with matias switches malfunctioning mostly due to those skinny contact leaves being juuuuust out of alignment.
I have one of these, but with Box Navies (pre-retooling). It's an alright board, but the plate isn't very well aligned with the case, so I added some screws to fix that. I also generously lubed the stabilizers and they are much better now. I'm sure if I had tactile or linear switches, I'd still hear some rattle, but the sound is vastly improved as a result. I used EK Mechlube 2. Oh and the stock keycaps were badly damaged when I got it because of the Box stem. I replaced them with a set of KPRepublic PBT doubleshot (Cherry profile, 1.3-ish mm thick), and those are just fine. They fit slightly loose on other boards, but fine on the V80 with no visible damage. Because they aren't the full 1.5mm thick, they don't clash with the housings on the switches, even though they are mounted north-facing. I did have to hack the stem on the Caps Lock key apart, though, as they use a 2-in-1 stem that is incompatible with Topre MX sliders and Box switches. Other than that, it's an OK board.
I installed old alps switches in my matias board and then previously perfectly fine alps switches started chattering. I think it may be matias' pcbs causing the problem.
I've had chatter issues with an official Matias board (Quiet Pro) that I picked up in late 3016, and had chatter issues ALSO with the warranty replacement. I ended up just picking the board that had fewer bad keys, salvaging keys from the other board, and transferring them over. The board is now perfect, but it's not the best user experience getting there. I read in another comment that the problem was "a couple years ago", so that aligns with when I bought it, and I hope it's better by now, as I really do like the end result.
I have the Matias Click version of this and it initially chattered the same as yours did. After I "wore it in", it corrected itself and it hasn't done it since.
I have the KBP 60% board with Matias quiet click. Works just fine, no chatter noticed. The keyboard is very nice, tactile and quiet. The keycaps are crap though. Replace them with some decent taihao keycaps and the board becomes much more pleasant to use.
I have two Matias keyboards, a clicky and a quiet. Both have seen fairly heavy use (keys worn shiny). Replaced one key on the quiet board, as it didn't always register properly.
For anyone else thinking about getting a keyboard with these switches: I recently built a keyboard in the Cherry G80-1800 layout and used these switches. They wobble quite a bit.. but they feel, sound, and behave great! No chattering as of yet. Been 4 days, and tons of typing.
I bought one of these a few months ago, the quiet click model but with Taihao caps. My intention was to replace the switches with while skcm but i used the board for a month before I did the surgery. It's a nice board, switches are nice and silent. Would be really nice for office environment. I did get the double click issue with matias switches. It's not very common, and some days it didn't happen at all. After replace the switches with white skcm switches, the double click issue still happen especially with switches with high contact resistance. Sometimes bending the switch plate fingers fix the issue. I suspect that the board or the firmware has somewhat bad contact debouncing. The case is nice and solid, with smooth texture. And the cable gutter is too small, I had a hard time putting the included braided cable in. And btw the people at KBP is quite friendly. Just drop them an email if you need to ask something. They said their keyboards are made in the same factory as Filco though.
I remove the switches with double click issue and measure the contact resistance. Maybe they are old or something get into the switch plate while I clean them, making the contact resistance to rise to a few tens ohms.
On my Matias Laptop Pro (the compact Mac version of the Quiet Pro), the up-arrow key started chattering after 1 year (just as the warranty expired), then the right-arrow key, then the space key. I once had a Tactile Pro, and keys failed on that too. So I don't think I'll be using Matias switches again. It's sad, because I'd been searching for something to emulate the AEK2 feel for 20 years, and the Quiet Click switches are it, but I don't want to have to buy a new keyboard every year. Thanks for the well-researched review, by the way! I enjoyed learning some more about the details of the switches.
It seems the problem with the switches comes from them being over lubricated. In this comment section I read a comment from someone who said that he/she just dripped in a little bit of rubbing alcohol in the switch and that this fixed the issue without opening the switch.
Thanks, I was actually able to fix the problem for now by removing the caps and blowing some compressed air at the switches. One of them has started playing up again, but hopefully regular treatment and protection from dust will make the keyboard last a bit longer.
I have a Matias quiet click keyboard (the small sized cabled one shown in the video, but in ISO Nordic layout) and I have chatter on the spacebar. It's making the board unusable as I get 2 spaces instead of one and as I code for a living, that means a lot of squiggly red lines in the text editor. I find that if I hit the space bar right in the middle it doesn't happen, but that's not how I type, typically hitting the sb with my thumbs at either end. I used the kb for a good few months at work as my main kb, as it is small and portable and I really like the layout, but with that fault I can't rely on it. Any advice on how to fix it is welcome.
@@xb0xisbetter first, I apologize for the too quick reply :D second, I suspect the issues might be to dirt in the switches or issues with soldering (cracks) - things that usually get overlooked on usual level of inspection
@@cest7343 I haven't heard of any problems with the quality of either the solder used or the soldering job itself on either Matias or KBParadise boards. I think chatter and/or dead switches must have more to do with misalignment of the contact leaves, either due to their positioning during the soldering process (they're very thin, so maybe they were being pressed at some odd angle by a soldering iron or something during assembly) or some kind of tolerance problem between the PCB, plate and/or switch itself. I own a ton of Matias boards now and 3 V80s. I have had no problems with almost all of them and have tried to get as much time in on them as I can stand without giving in to the urge to go back to random vintage boards. My first Matias board (purchased about a year ago) had some intermittent chatter issues that cleared themselves up in the first week of use. I gave it to a coworker and after a few months a key stopped registering. All I did was remove the cap and the switch worked again and has since. The only other one I have had any problems with yet is an old "tactile pro" I picked up that had the Forward-manufactured SKBM clones. Almost all of the switches chatter, but I haven't bothered trying to figure out why for myself and/or fix or replace them. I think Gaote (the current manufacturer, known for their Outemu switches), Matias and/or KBParadise must have made iterative changes to the switches and/or assembly process that have all but eliminated these problems now. This is the most interesting look at the problem I have found: community.keyboard.io/t/guide-a-second-step-to-fixing-key-chatter/4101
@@xb0xisbetter this is i presume, assuming the soldering was original OEM soldering, right? What as if the issues arose, the owner tried to re-flow the solder points and had made unintentional errors? I can't recall if OP mentioned that and to whom it might apply him or the previous owner or both. Also, i am waiting for some parts to soon be using an Matias DIY keyboard, and the switches (a 200 lot) do seem quite of good finish and quality - but this is not from a working platform yet.
@@cest7343 Yes, although I specifically asked Matias about whether or not reflowing the soldering myself might help when I initially had problems with my first board and they did say that that may help as well if what they recommended would not, which further suggested to me that something may be going on with the positioning of the contact legs during final assembly with trouble switches. He's got another video in which he soldered Matias' linear switches into an old AT101 board if you wanted to watch that too. I don't think he ever mentions there being a problem with them in that scenario. I have spoken to some people who have soldered Matias switches into their own boards in the last year or two who have had problems with chatter, but I haven't gotten detailed information from them about whether or not they thought that the legs may have been soldered in a less-than-ideal position either. All of this is just another reason for me to want to try to swap some Matias switches into an old Alps board or something that has completely shot switches and see if I manage to encounter any problems. The nice thing either way is that their switches are dirt cheap for how wonderful they feel and sound compared to modern alternatives, so if you're reasonably proficient at soldering, it would be trivial to swap problem switches outright.
I have 3 KBP V80s from Massdrop, (MX clear and 2 MX brown) and they all have some issue or another. Chattering keys on one, physically stiff keys on another. I really regret getting them!
I have both the same Matias keyboards, and I have not had any issues with chattering. I guess I may have gotten lucky (at least so far). I do really like the feel of the Matias switches, though I am not the biggest fan of the glossy case, the weird font on the keys, etc. Still, I liked the Quiet Pro TKL enough that I've had it as my daily driver on one of my PCs for a solid year.
I have a ton of boards with Matias switches now, including 3 V80s. I'm typing on one now. I have an oldschool "tactile pro" with the Forward-produce switches which almost all chatter, and I had a brand new Mini "tactile" Pro that chattered a bit at first but it just vanished after the first week of daily use (this one was purchased about a year ago now). I gave it to a coworker and one of the keys stopped registering a few months later. Pulling the cap was all that was necessary to fix that and I haven't heard of it having problems again since. All others, mostly beat up old Matias boards, I have had 0 problems with. I'm trying to get as much time in on as many of them as I can to try to clear Matias' name.
I have a KBParadise v60 from Massdrop with Matias Quiet Linear switches that has chatter on a couple of keys (backslash and semicolon, IIRC). KBP offered to mail me some replacement switches to solder in, but I've never soldered anything and the time and money involved in trying the repair wouldn't have been worth it next to the price of the keyboard. They also recommended a firmware upgrade, but the installation tool wouldn’t recognize the keyboard. It’s disappointing, because I quite liked the switches, despite a lot of wobble and the very rattly spacebar. The board is sitting in a drawer now. I also have a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, version 4, which had one stuck key when I bought it, which I fixed by popping off the keycap and blowing into the switch. Should that even work? Zero problems after that, except that one of the rubber feet on the bottom fell off.
I have a V80 that initially had Cherry MX Clear switches. It would chatter a lot, even though it was just two keys instead of one registering, not three. Initiially I got some newer firmware from KBParadise, from the Mac version of the KB, but that didn't do anything. I had to remove all the LEDs and all the switches and replace them with some Gaterons I had lying around. This finally fixed the chatter. I think that KBParadise uses incredibly bad switches and maybe some very aggressive debouncing, otherwise I can't explain the amount of issues with their keyboards.
I am considering the Ducky Shine 7 keyboard as a purchase. Do you have any opinions of that keyboard? Moreover , I have also been looking into Realforce topre keyboards or a Rama keyboard. My budget would be around - 400 euro if the quality is there. Any recommendations?
Fucking hell mate, that's a lot of money for a keyboard. Have you tried anything Topre-like yet before being willing to splash that much? I don't have any Duckies atm btw.
Hey Thomas, I have a TactilePro 4. I pulled my keys off and discovered a switch underneath Caps Lock that allows you to swap it and Ctrl. There's even an LED hidden underneath Ctrl, ever awaiting for someone to use this feature. I wanted to know if it was on earlier or PC versions of the TactilePro.
Ever since I had a sample of these quiet click keys, I've been looking forward to buying this board. But potential reliability issues are now making me re-think between these and Zealios.
When you say "You like these better than the Alps original Tactiles, do you also include switches like Alps Orange and Alps Salmon? I don't really like the cream and black but I think Orange and Salmon are in a different level compared to those. Or are you only mentioning the bamboo alps?
@@Chyrosran22 Try comparing orange/salmon with the "quiet clicks" with the dampeners removed. IMHO the qc are actually smoother and more tactile (haven't tried them in a proper keyboard, though).
I use one of these at work and mine also had chatter with several keys. Like others here have said, I found the problem went away after opening the offending switches and wiping off the contact leaf. Mine's been chatter free for over a year now after having cleaned up about half a dozen switches.
can't really compare switch sound between two entirely differently keyboards. the AEK had a lot more space inside the case than the v80 which looks like it has next to no open spaces within the case. that's where you're getting the pitch difference. solid build & minimal area for the sound to bounce around = a deeper sounding keyboard, thicker caps can help as well. (ps. writing this on an apple adb keyboard 658-4081 ... the IIgs - orange alps)
I bought a matias quiteclick, I really liked it. BUT the P key chattered so bad I had to return it... Now I'm rocking a Wooting 2 (just came in!) and I'm really enjoying it. Mine was a Matias brand board.
Can´t u lay your hands on some kailh low profile keyboards¿? I would like to see a review of one of those. Especially of the gamdias hermes p3 blue/red switch.
My Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 2014 started getting chatter after 2 years of light use, and it got so bad that ‘N’ would type 6 times most of the time, and I even got it to type 11 times. Amazing.
how are these switches for gaming? thinking of picking either a matias mini quiet pro or a niz 45g electrocapacitive board. i'm currently using outemu blues if that helps
In my opinion, no switch is made for gaming. I only care if it has N-Key Rollover because hysteresis and actuation points don't hinder my gameplay. So basically it's down to preference. These keys are your traditional key switches, they have a slider that moves to contacts together and Bam a circuit is closed sending a signal. Electro capacitive is usually a fancier rubber dome that doesn't use a membrane but instead a capacitive PCB. So either you should ask yourself whether you prefer a high quality rubber dome or a traditional key switch. I'm no rubber dome hater as long as they are tactile so you won't see any snobbery from me.
I thought I saw somewhere that they had a bad switch batch a couple of years ago and had corrected the problem, so it makes me wonder about more recent boards displaying any problems. I have two recently-purchased Matias boards and they are both great
@@Chyrosran22 TOP DEFINITION torilla tavataan "Torilla tavataan" means "let's meet at the Market Square". The square is the location of big celebratory events, such as ice hockey world championship victories, and whenever Finland is mentioned outside its borders in any form, people use "torilla tavataan" sarcastically to make fun of the fact that the Finns are obsessed by international recognition and attention and "what do they think about us". It's commonly used with a word about or from Finland.
Well lets see who's in the running: Razer MECHA-MEMBRANE Tesoro AGILE RED Any other "gamer" switches... And honestly (sorry) I think calling a switch "complicated" as in "complicated alps" is kind of silly too (again, sorry for the heresy).
I think your chatter comes from the previous owner over lubing the switches. I replicated this in numerous simplified alps switches, till I learned that they need just the tiniest amount (if any at all.) I had a V80 daily driver with clickies for ages, it was pretty bulletproof, survived my toddler abusing it. They became the de-facto boards I've recommended to family and friends when they ask for advice; never heard of anyone having a problem, certainly not chattering. Just my 2c, and a sample of half dozen isn't representative so... Edit: My board came with a braided cable with a much smaller plug. Are you sure that's the original cable?
I still suspect the lube. A fair number of keyboards with Matias switches have floated through my hands, and most of the tactile ones have had at least one chattering key. None of the clickies did. Haven't tried any linear ones yet.
You mentioned the switches in this keyboard were lubed more than your others. I think I've heard the switches in KBParadise boards come/came overly pre-lubed, and that this caused the very bad chattering issues, though I never looked too far into it and I may be misremembering.
Hey chyro, I've been watching a lot of your videos lately and they have gotten me interested in the types of switches. I was wondering what were the best "heavy" switches aside from mx greens. I have mx silvers right now and they just feel a bit to light.
What's best for one person isn't necessarily the best for another, but if you like REALLY stiff (and tactile) clicky switches, you might want to check out BOX Navy switches. Go check out my review of them if you're interested. That said, do make sure the new batch has fully fixed the keycap issue.
I have also experienced the chattering problem with my V80 (bought in Jan 2016) and its terrible especially if the chattering key happens to be part of your password. On my V80 it appeared after a few years of regular use (on the 'e', 'a', 'o' keys) and is over time slowly spreading to more keys. KBParadise shipped me some switches for free and I have been replacing switches by soldering them off and on. For comparison I also have a cherry brown TKL thats been going strong since 2012 without ever chattering.
I'm experiencing the chattering on my Dvorak Pro keyboard. I'm inclined to chuck it out because of the cost and hassle of getting replacement switches to NZ and soldering them in. =(
These goddamn switches are so incredibly scrumptious lubed. Mine did not come well lubed if at all. But they took an incredibly long time to lube and compared to MX style switches, they positively drink up tribosys 3204 with the surface area on the dampeners. What do you call it when something is amazing but you would never, ever in your life do it again?
I'm actually currently dealing with chattering from an Omnikey 101 (1994), SKCM white on about 5 switches. I'll have to end up replacing some of the switches (I have a few spare from a cream build).
I just got a NIB v80 on eBay with Fukkas, which feel okay but much less refined than Matias Click. I'll be putting in "Midnight Blues" (Complicated Pine housings with long, steel "curly" click leaves from Tai-Hao APC click switches and thick, dielectric silicon lube on the stem guides) once I have time to break out the soldering iron. I would love to hear what you think about it if you have any APC switches and put one together. It's not as great for someone who already has blue Alps, but it has a thockier, crisper click than whites with a much softer feel. Great video as always-Keep 'em coming! -KC
Can't be fucked with chattery electro mechanical (is that a proper definition?) switches any more, I really just want to see more switches in the capacitave realm. Optical and hall effect are cool too though.
Unfortunately I can also corroborate the poor reliability. I have a V60 with Matias Click on which the tilde key stopped working, and a Quiet Pro which closes windows whenever I press Alt.
I had one switch on my V80 with the Matias quiet clicks chatter infinitely, so that was nice. To make it stop you had to press the key again, hard. Needless to say, the board is unusable (other swithces were chattering too), and I can only hope that I get the inspiration to plant some nicer (= more reliable) Alps switches to it some day. edit: TORILLA TAVATAAN!
Me too. I've only tried them as single switches clicked into a plate from a disassembled board, but in that setting and direct comparison I think they are even better than orange alps - smoother and crunchier at the same time.
I think that Alps-style switches would be more popular if they came with MX mounts. Alps produced MX-mount stems, right? Edit: corrected formatting of Alps. I was probably thinking of some other switch manufacturer who produced both kinds of mounts.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 I saw Chyros' review for those; it sounds like they have a lot of potential but that they have a ways to go. It sounds like they weren't designed to work with clicky switches.
I think the chattering is caused by the excess lubricant. I've got one of these, although with double shot abs keycaps. Spacebar chattered like hell, took the switch apart, cleaned off the lubricant and now looks like it's fixed. It's a shame because the keyboard itself is rather well made, the switches feel amazing and while it isn't that inexpensive it surely is worth it over a MX type switch board.
Maybe that's why some people report the chattering issue "going away" when they're "broken in". It could just be the lube wearing off and with that, the chattering as well. But that's an assumption on my end, and is by no means a result. Maybe somebody can test this someday.
@@Chyrosran22 not to be too much of a pest, but you'd think more keyboard manufactures would make their boards hot-swappable. They could even put it on the box as a selling point. (Goodness knows how they like to write meaningless crap on the box) It would probably make the board more expensive to make but given the ridiculousness of RGB lighting, at least give people the choice. And they'd probably make a killing selling different switch types. That's it; thanks for listening.
@@canonwright8397 Hot-swappability wouldn't suit Alps very much due to the design of the plate wing clips which can't be loosened from above. In addition, really, soldering is easy, anyone can do it ;) .
I bought Matias tactile pro last summer . Used it as my daily driver for about 4 months and have since used it occasionally. Havent had any issues it with it.
That is my anecdotal single data point.
I’ve used matias quiet click switches in a matias keyboard daily for about five years. I don’t recall any chattering but I have had four keys fail! The boards are so expensive in Australia it was still economical to buy a box of 100 bare switches and teach myself to solder in replacements.
If you're willing to get a pack of 10 spare switches somewhere and desolder any that chatter it's a fairly safe keyboard to buy.
When these switches chatter it can be DISGUSTING and two switches in my TKL build had this issue.
One worked just fine with the debounce in QMK turned up to 1, and the other kept chattering no matter what I set it to.
That spacebar is a calamitous, soul-shattering betrayal.
Flimsy as those caps seem, I really dig their type face. Great video Thomas, keep up the good work!
5:19 I own a full-sized Matias transparent-case keyboard that I used to use with a computer that was powered on 24/7. Within about six months, the keyboard stopped registering keypresses reliably or at all and would have to be disconnected from the computer for about half an hour before it would work again. So anecdotally, I think there could be control card (PCB assembly) quality issues with Matias keyboards. With a week of light use, such problems don't have time to manifest themselves.
I have the same issue with the keyboard, by now even disconnecting doesn't help.
simson Aww man, that's too bad. You should keep it for the switches.
Who cares？
Sparx We are talking about the general quality of Matias keyboards.
it's the KBP PCB, i don't think it's anything to do with the matias switches. my KBP 60% matias quiet click had a bad IC (the lil chip) and I got it RMA'd. It came back there *was* actually a problem w/ the matias switch, where one of the contacts broke and it wouldn't move at all. I think this is pretty rare, as I've never heard of this happening to anyone else and I haven't heard of these issues with KBP keyboards since the past 2 years or so.
I've owned 4 keyboards with Matias switches, two in-house brand, two KBParadise. Three of them suffered from mild (Matias Laptop Pro) to severe (two KBParadise V60s) key chatter. The fourth, a Matias Quiet Pro for Mac, was purchased second hand and has been one of my go-to daily driver boards for well over two years.
I'm guessing the Matias keyboards have nothing different inside except longer switch debouncing and that the switches are still chattering just as much on the Matias boards.
Typing on a Matias Quiet Pro makes me want to type an entire encyclopedia in one sitting. It’s incredibly satisfying. I definitely want to try the regular tactile one
On my custom Matias QC board (built from a defective V80 actually), any time I get chatter on a switch, it's always the grease getting into the contact leaves. Try opening up a chattering switch, clean the grease off of the contact leaf side of the slider, and use a thin wipe (I use Kimwipes) and a little rubbing alcohol to clean the contact leaf. Works for me every time.
Another thing to check is the USB connector PCB. I discovered that the pins on some of the switches would actually make some contact with the PCB holding the USB connector and would give me tons of issues. I put some thin foam over the PCB and that solved the problem.
This seems like the perfect keyboard to make YT comments, exactly because of the key issues ;)
I bought this exact keyboard about five months ago, and it chattered extremely badly new out of the box. Each keypress would produce 1 - 6 characters, with six not being a rarity. The spacebar was especially bad.
Turned out to be because the switches were badly over-lubricated. I took the worst offenders apart (a painstaking process involving cocktail sticks) and wiped the lubricant off - which fixed the problem entirely.
I didn't have the time or inclination to do that for the whole keyboard, though, so after a month of kidding myself it went into the cupboard.
Avoid this keyboard with Matias Quiet Click switches!
Interesting. That is an EXCEPTIONALLY bad level of chattering - for a new keyboard even. Interesting also that cleaning off the lubricant fixed it - this would suggest that the Quiet Click switches are more vulnerable to it than the clicky ones.
@@Chyrosran22: I replaced it with a Havit HV-KB390L, a low-profile keyboard with the new Kailh Choc Blue clicky switches. The keycaps are a bit cheap looking (at least the legends aren't in a lame "gamer" font), but I love the feel of it - very fast and precise to type on.
I have the same problem with Matias Quiet Click switches. Spacebar, return, T and R keys are especially bad. The whole thing is unusable w/o software that suppresses chattering. Even then it PIA to use. I'll try removing the lubricant, otherwise I'll get different switches :(
My quiet clicks developed chattering on several keys. Turned out to be broken contact leaves. When they're half-failed, they start chattering. If they're chattering very bad, you can pull the leaf out and it'll either be hanging by a thread, or a piece will be sitting in the bottom of the housing. I've had this keyboard for about a year and a half, and 5 have gone bad so far. I blamed myself for opening the switches and adding lube. Thought I'd damaged the leaves and/or used some corrosive lube. Interesting to see that this one is suffering from chattering as well.
The desoldered switch is shown in this video, but the contacts aren't visibly damaged. Strange that yours are physically falling apart, that's quite extreme Oo .
this happened to mine, one of the switches (A key) stopped registering after chattering a shit-ton. took the switch apart and the leaf was snapped in two. note, i hadn't opened it prior. i don't think i've ever heard of this happening on matias' boards outside of hearing it from this vid, so maybe it's something with kbp as i've heard it very commonly with kbp.
@@Chyrosran22 Everytime I've heard of chattering developing, it's turned out the owner overlubbed the matias switches... I had same issue (with og simplified too) till I learned to use the absolute tiniest amount with them, much less than in a mx switch. My early orange alps seemed to have a hard lacquer style lubricant, during an ergodox build I deliberately removed it from a batch, making them noticeably less smooth, adding modern lube made them chatter annoyingly. I just don't lube alps anymore and leave the original shellac style stuff on by not cleaning them with solvents.
Mine developed chattering on several keys even without opening it up. Don't blame yourself.
Not sure if I can do a link here, but this i've highlighted the area that seems to be weak in these switches imgur.com/a/h0Lf2BR @@Chyrosran22
5:43 I've noticed a similar situation with old Cherry MX switches vs. their modern counter parts. Allegedly the new modern ones with gold plated contacts have a longer life time, only for people to report issues a few years later. Yet the old ones are still going strong.
A professor I had said something along the lines of "assumptions are not results". While it was meant for something else, I really do think that quote has a lot of merit in many different areas, keyboards included. To bad people have a tendency to compliment their assumptions with excuses should their assumptions be proven false. Luckily these boards aren't given that luxury of getting a free pass.
Sorry for replying to such an old comment, but...
The newer switches could 100% be more reliable, only to be let down by cost cutting on modern PCBs and more environmentally friendly soldering. I feel like a lot of the issues people report are more related to shoddy build quality on the rest of the keyboards than to the switches themselves.
For example I have an old Packard Bell branded dome-with-slider BTC 51-series board. Excellent typing feel, a nice metal backplate to defend your home with, and a PCB that's about 3-times as thick as any of my modern keyboard's. That PCB is also far less complicated, and I could 100% repair it even with cheap and crappy tools because the components are just so 'uge. And mind you, this was a keyboard the manufacturer literally threw at you with any branded office PC purchase, unlike my rather expensive modern "after market" boards.
So yeah, mass produced modern keyboards could easily have worse reliability than older boards, despite having several far more reliable components.
You should also factor in that there are far more mechanical keyboards in use nowadays than any time previously. PCs are no longer just curiosities.
That space bar is, HIDEEEEEEEOUS.
lol
unacceptaBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Owner KBP v60 here. My spacebar also horrible
Stabilizers are not lubed
DISSSAAAAPOIIIIINNNTTTEEEEDDD
I just binged through all his keyboard reviews. Great thing to listen to while working.
I've seen reliability complaints about both this keyboard and matias switches. What an unholy marriage!
I've had two KBP v60 with Matias quiet click. They both ended up in the trash after chattering and non registering keys. Even after switching out the offending switches, new ones started to suffer after a little while.
I fucking loved the sound and feel though, and it's been a few years, so I'm almost wanting to try again. They are in a different league compared to mx type switches when it comes to sound and feel. Even zealios don't stand a chance.
Had a Matias quiet for 3 years and once had an issue with some keys double typing. But it was easily fixed by pushing the key sideways while pressing it down (weird but that's what the Matias support told me to do, and it sovled the issue).
@@Jonas.856 I think I own more boards with Matias switches than MX switches now, both from Matias and from PBParadise. The one that started it all, a new production Matias Mini "Tactile" Pro, had some occasional chatter issues with a few keys in the first week or so of daily use. It mysteriously vanished and never came back. Since this was a white keyboard with Mac caps and mapping that was still under warranty, I never modified it to fit my tastes (black and Windows) and eventually gave it to a coworker who likes Apple. They no longer bother producing black clicky boards with Windows layouts ... so I need to Frankenstein them. One of the keys stopped registering a few months later, but when he brought it in for me to look at ... this problem also went away upon just pulling the cap. I wanted to do some more digging, but he just wanted the thing back right away. I think this must have something to do with the contact leaves themselves, maybe misalignment of the pins when soldering to the PCB, or some kind of tolerance issue between the plate and/or PCB and switch. As James said, Matias themselves suggest all sorts of bizarre fiddly solutions ... which often seem to work.
All other boards that I own that contain the switches have worked 100% for me. I'm currently typing this using my favorite, a recently-produced V80 with clicky switches transplanted into a beefy aluminum case from Aliexpress. I own just about every variant that Matias has ever made, including the weird security-focused wireless RF model and one of the "ergo" split models, all of various ages (purchased mostly secondhand), although I have only heavily used a few different mini variants that I have modified to be clicky (one clicky with the dampened sliders). I quite like the Matias mini layout and mapping, so I have a considerable amount of time typing on at least 4 different examples of them. I own two brand new V80s, one of which is the one I mentioned I'm using now. The other is a "linear" version of the same, which I have been daily driving at one location at work. I have another V80 that I purchased used that has the dampened tactile switches. All 3 V80s have also worked perfectly so far in my own use of them.
I did recently test out an oldschool "tactile pro" that has the older Forward-produced SKBM clones, and almost every single switch in it chatters. I'm thinking that Matias and/or KBParadise and/or Gaote (the current manufacturer of Matias switches, known for their Outemu switches) must have done something to improve reliability over the years, since I'm having a very hard time finding any problems with the newer boards I own. I only partly own all of these boards because of how much I like the switches. It seems the community wrote them off, so I feel like somebody needs to try to get as many of them together as possible with some real-world use to try to clear Matias' name. We need more people making alternatives to MX, so companies like Matias and Unicomp need our support whenever possible.
How long ago did you buy those V60s?
@@xb0xisbetter I bought them several years ago, so I guess they where before the retooling.
I actually bought a "new" one of those weird wireless RF keyboard a few weeks ago. I only found out after my purchase that it was out of production now, but I still have warranty since I bought it from a store. I saw a bit of chatter in the beginning, but I'm happy to report that it seems to have worn in.
I also bought 200 new quiet click switches which I will use with my Planck. I hope that it's possible to make them popular now that the reliability is fixed!
@@Jonas.856 I think Forward stopped making Alps clones in 2012 or so, but it seems like Matias and/or Gaote have been tweaking their replacements ever since. I'm not sure whether or not V60s were even in production yet that long ago.
There are brand new RF Matias keyboards still being sold somewhere? I wish production hadn't ceased, even without all of the fancy encryption. I have been tempted to make mine clicky, but they're looking like they may be a pretty scarce variant. I literally have Ebay notify me whenever there are new listings for Matias boards and I think that's the only one I have ever found on there since I set that up about a year ago. Bluetooth sucks in my opinion. It is always annoying to pair if you're going to use it with a lot of different devices, and it takes forever to connect once you've powered whatever peripheral on you're interfacing through it. I've always much preferred dedicated RF dongles or, even better, Logitech's unifying receivers. It is a shame that Logitech seems to prefer mediocre/obscure switches and make pretty ugly boards. I understand that Matias' main demographic now though once the enthusiast market was all but lost must be reduced to Apple fanatics who seem to enjoy torturing themselves with inferior "features".
I'm glad to hear your chatter problems also worked themselves out. I hope that's the case of any boards manufactured with them today if they happen to develop chatter.
We're facing an uphill battle. It seems like everyone is convinced that you're literally guaranteed to have problems with any board with Matias switches, and that's before being limited almost entirely to Tai-Hao caps and extremely limited PCB and plate options. I think Matias is going to have a harder time breaking back into the mainstream of the enthusiast market than even attempts at SKCM resurrection. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. So many people disregard Alps and clones because there are so few options for customization vs MX ... when the reason there are so few options for Alps is because there hasn't been enough market saturation to justify investment in designing and manufacturing those options.
There are a lot of stereotypes and trends that are just taken as gospel, even in keyboards, but I think any interest at all in a hobby with as many choices as we have means we probably still have an above average demographic of people with relatively open minds. For that reason, I have hope that inertia can be reversed on some of these things if enough people disagree with them, and can compellingly explain why.
I've been waiting for a long time now because importing one to our country costs a lot. Thanks!
KBP is quite a unique company that they plug all kinds of switches into the same V60/80/100 model, from kaihua box navy all the way down to datacomp.
awesome review but it could have used more imperial system bashing for my taste
I have a keyboard with Matias Quiet Clicks as well & it started having chattering issues; according to the people that made it, the lubricant that was used is what causes the issues: I was able to clean out the switches by dripping rubbing alcohol into it and pressing in a bunch, which made the chattering go away.
Ooh, thanks for the tip! I really don't fancy dismantling all of the switches just to wipe the lubricant off.
The Matias quiet click one of the sharpest switches produced. Tacticility twice as strong and twice as sharp as Cherry MX browns." I agree, I returned a Das 4 with browns and kept my Quiet Pro. Typing on this keyboard is unlike anything I've felt before. Thank you for saving me hours of looking at typing switch comparison.
The ultimate keyboard for me would be Matias quiet click switches with the sound of lubed linear switches but there is no such thing.
"This keyboard is defective."
Yeah ... I had this exact keyboard, and when I got it about half of my keys chattered, just as bad as you describe. There was a break-in period of a month or two where if I used a key enough for a while it would stop, but if I stopped using the key for long it would start doing it again. A couple weeks ago the "i" key started sticking and I just threw the keyboard out. Now using a Drop ALT with Zealpc Zilents and it's absolutely wonderful. Keys feel way better as well, smoother and nowhere near as wobbly and way better tactility. And zero chatter.
I can confirm the chatter problem: I have had several switches replaced on my Quiet Pro. Currently, it is sitting on a shelf, because the backspace chatters. I also owned a Tactile Pro, which was much better. I used that until the E key broke.
Your voice is amazing. You should do audiobooks!
It's a more relaxed Internet Historian
I'm actually not surprised, considering how bad Gaote (which produces these switches) has dropped their Quality Control on their own switches (the infamous "Outemu" switches) on the last few years, it's no wonder these new batches of Matias switches have problems.
My old Matias Secure Pro from 2013 is still alive and kicking tho'. Same goes for my 2014 Outemu boards, it's just that the new switches are far less reliable.
About the switches; I handwired me an ortho 4 by 12 with Matias Quiet Click and used it for four months at work before upgrading to a Planck with ZealPC’s Silents which in my opinion is better in every way. No chattering issues though.
Why do SO many "quiet keyboards" have these abnormally loud space bars? I got rid of my board with Cherry Silents for this reason. Loved all the keys but that loud-as-a-gunshot spacebar.
It’s more the stabilizers than the switches themselves, honestly. When you have rattle-y stabilizers it tends to be far too loud. Usually with quiet boards fixing that by lubing and/or modifying the stabilizers make them a LOT quieter.
My cherry Silent Red vortex core has very quiet space bars. They're are actually deeper and quieter than the alphanumeric keys.
Despite being a big fan of black keyboards, and liking many of the gamery kind of designs, something about how those key caps are pulled off is absolutely perfect, I love them. Kinda reminding me a bit of an old Logitech wireless board I've used...
I own and have modified several kbparadise matias boards. Kbparadise solders on both sides of the board making it hell to replace switches but otherwise they are good boards. Have had trouble with matias switches malfunctioning mostly due to those skinny contact leaves being juuuuust out of alignment.
I have one of these, but with Box Navies (pre-retooling). It's an alright board, but the plate isn't very well aligned with the case, so I added some screws to fix that. I also generously lubed the stabilizers and they are much better now. I'm sure if I had tactile or linear switches, I'd still hear some rattle, but the sound is vastly improved as a result. I used EK Mechlube 2.
Oh and the stock keycaps were badly damaged when I got it because of the Box stem. I replaced them with a set of KPRepublic PBT doubleshot (Cherry profile, 1.3-ish mm thick), and those are just fine. They fit slightly loose on other boards, but fine on the V80 with no visible damage. Because they aren't the full 1.5mm thick, they don't clash with the housings on the switches, even though they are mounted north-facing. I did have to hack the stem on the Caps Lock key apart, though, as they use a 2-in-1 stem that is incompatible with Topre MX sliders and Box switches. Other than that, it's an OK board.
I installed old alps switches in my matias board and then previously perfectly fine alps switches started chattering. I think it may be matias' pcbs causing the problem.
this keyboard isnt a matias pcb
Doesn't Matias only make switches?
@@sanoj92 Matias makes switches and keyboards.
have you checked out my group buy for newly manufactured AK-CN2 switches?
Yeah I heard about it, but I'm not sure I'm gonna. I have so many Alps-type switches in reserve xD .
I've had chatter issues with an official Matias board (Quiet Pro) that I picked up in late 3016, and had chatter issues ALSO with the warranty replacement. I ended up just picking the board that had fewer bad keys, salvaging keys from the other board, and transferring them over. The board is now perfect, but it's not the best user experience getting there. I read in another comment that the problem was "a couple years ago", so that aligns with when I bought it, and I hope it's better by now, as I really do like the end result.
i had chattering on a few matias switches. replaced them and they work fine.
thank you so much! I was thinking about buying one, but that finally came to an end =)
I have the Matias Click version of this and it initially chattered the same as yours did. After I "wore it in", it corrected itself and it hasn't done it since.
I have the KBP 60% board with Matias quiet click. Works just fine, no chatter noticed. The keyboard is very nice, tactile and quiet. The keycaps are crap though. Replace them with some decent taihao keycaps and the board becomes much more pleasant to use.
same here. no issues whatsoever. if you're interested in custom firmware for it, there's a project in works on github, made good progress recently
I had chatter on my KBParadise V60 with Matias switches, but turfed those switches while modding the rest clicky plates.
8:39 i physically recoiled at the sound of that rattle
I have two Matias keyboards, a clicky and a quiet. Both have seen fairly heavy use (keys worn shiny). Replaced one key on the quiet board, as it didn't always register properly.
For anyone else thinking about getting a keyboard with these switches: I recently built a keyboard in the Cherry G80-1800 layout and used these switches.
They wobble quite a bit.. but they feel, sound, and behave great! No chattering as of yet. Been 4 days, and tons of typing.
You managed to find an 1800-layout Alps PCB and chassis? Damn... sign me up!
@@TommyFenstermacher5150 built it using the PCB from TheKeyCompany! It’s Alps compatible!
(Not an ad lol, but they recently did a restock haha)
I did end up getting chattering eventually... :( I kinda feel like modern alps keyboards need to be hot swappable
I bought one of these a few months ago, the quiet click model but with Taihao caps. My intention was to replace the switches with while skcm but i used the board for a month before I did the surgery. It's a nice board, switches are nice and silent. Would be really nice for office environment.
I did get the double click issue with matias switches. It's not very common, and some days it didn't happen at all. After replace the switches with white skcm switches, the double click issue still happen especially with switches with high contact resistance. Sometimes bending the switch plate fingers fix the issue.
I suspect that the board or the firmware has somewhat bad contact debouncing.
The case is nice and solid, with smooth texture. And the cable gutter is too small, I had a hard time putting the included braided cable in.
And btw the people at KBP is quite friendly. Just drop them an email if you need to ask something. They said their keyboards are made in the same factory as Filco though.
I remove the switches with double click issue and measure the contact resistance. Maybe they are old or something get into the switch plate while I clean them, making the contact resistance to rise to a few tens ohms.
On my Matias Laptop Pro (the compact Mac version of the Quiet Pro), the up-arrow key started chattering after 1 year (just as the warranty expired), then the right-arrow key, then the space key. I once had a Tactile Pro, and keys failed on that too. So I don't think I'll be using Matias switches again. It's sad, because I'd been searching for something to emulate the AEK2 feel for 20 years, and the Quiet Click switches are it, but I don't want to have to buy a new keyboard every year.
Thanks for the well-researched review, by the way! I enjoyed learning some more about the details of the switches.
It seems the problem with the switches comes from them being over lubricated. In this comment section I read a comment from someone who said that he/she just dripped in a little bit of rubbing alcohol in the switch and that this fixed the issue without opening the switch.
Thanks, I was actually able to fix the problem for now by removing the caps and blowing some compressed air at the switches. One of them has started playing up again, but hopefully regular treatment and protection from dust will make the keyboard last a bit longer.
I have a Matias quiet click keyboard (the small sized cabled one shown in the video, but in ISO Nordic layout) and I have chatter on the spacebar. It's making the board unusable as I get 2 spaces instead of one and as I code for a living, that means a lot of squiggly red lines in the text editor.
I find that if I hit the space bar right in the middle it doesn't happen, but that's not how I type, typically hitting the sb with my thumbs at either end.
I used the kb for a good few months at work as my main kb, as it is small and portable and I really like the layout, but with that fault I can't rely on it.
Any advice on how to fix it is welcome.
Quite a bit late to the party, but I wonder what individual switch disassembly and inspection would/did show?
What do you mean? Show in regard to what?
@@xb0xisbetter first, I apologize for the too quick reply :D
second, I suspect the issues might be to dirt in the switches or issues with soldering (cracks) - things that usually get overlooked on usual level of inspection
@@cest7343 I haven't heard of any problems with the quality of either the solder used or the soldering job itself on either Matias or KBParadise boards. I think chatter and/or dead switches must have more to do with misalignment of the contact leaves, either due to their positioning during the soldering process (they're very thin, so maybe they were being pressed at some odd angle by a soldering iron or something during assembly) or some kind of tolerance problem between the PCB, plate and/or switch itself.
I own a ton of Matias boards now and 3 V80s. I have had no problems with almost all of them and have tried to get as much time in on them as I can stand without giving in to the urge to go back to random vintage boards. My first Matias board (purchased about a year ago) had some intermittent chatter issues that cleared themselves up in the first week of use. I gave it to a coworker and after a few months a key stopped registering. All I did was remove the cap and the switch worked again and has since. The only other one I have had any problems with yet is an old "tactile pro" I picked up that had the Forward-manufactured SKBM clones. Almost all of the switches chatter, but I haven't bothered trying to figure out why for myself and/or fix or replace them.
I think Gaote (the current manufacturer, known for their Outemu switches), Matias and/or KBParadise must have made iterative changes to the switches and/or assembly process that have all but eliminated these problems now.
This is the most interesting look at the problem I have found:
community.keyboard.io/t/guide-a-second-step-to-fixing-key-chatter/4101
@@xb0xisbetter this is i presume, assuming the soldering was original OEM soldering, right? What as if the issues arose, the owner tried to re-flow the solder points and had made unintentional errors? I can't recall if OP mentioned that and to whom it might apply him or the previous owner or both.
Also, i am waiting for some parts to soon be using an Matias DIY keyboard, and the switches (a 200 lot) do seem quite of good finish and quality - but this is not from a working platform yet.
@@cest7343 Yes, although I specifically asked Matias about whether or not reflowing the soldering myself might help when I initially had problems with my first board and they did say that that may help as well if what they recommended would not, which further suggested to me that something may be going on with the positioning of the contact legs during final assembly with trouble switches.
He's got another video in which he soldered Matias' linear switches into an old AT101 board if you wanted to watch that too. I don't think he ever mentions there being a problem with them in that scenario.
I have spoken to some people who have soldered Matias switches into their own boards in the last year or two who have had problems with chatter, but I haven't gotten detailed information from them about whether or not they thought that the legs may have been soldered in a less-than-ideal position either.
All of this is just another reason for me to want to try to swap some Matias switches into an old Alps board or something that has completely shot switches and see if I manage to encounter any problems. The nice thing either way is that their switches are dirt cheap for how wonderful they feel and sound compared to modern alternatives, so if you're reasonably proficient at soldering, it would be trivial to swap problem switches outright.
I have 3 KBP V80s from Massdrop, (MX clear and 2 MX brown) and they all have some issue or another. Chattering keys on one, physically stiff keys on another. I really regret getting them!
2:25
saying "damp creme/cream" is just so weird XD
I have both the same Matias keyboards, and I have not had any issues with chattering. I guess I may have gotten lucky (at least so far). I do really like the feel of the Matias switches, though I am not the biggest fan of the glossy case, the weird font on the keys, etc. Still, I liked the Quiet Pro TKL enough that I've had it as my daily driver on one of my PCs for a solid year.
I have a ton of boards with Matias switches now, including 3 V80s. I'm typing on one now. I have an oldschool "tactile pro" with the Forward-produce switches which almost all chatter, and I had a brand new Mini "tactile" Pro that chattered a bit at first but it just vanished after the first week of daily use (this one was purchased about a year ago now). I gave it to a coworker and one of the keys stopped registering a few months later. Pulling the cap was all that was necessary to fix that and I haven't heard of it having problems again since. All others, mostly beat up old Matias boards, I have had 0 problems with. I'm trying to get as much time in on as many of them as I can to try to clear Matias' name.
I have a KBParadise v60 from Massdrop with Matias Quiet Linear switches that has chatter on a couple of keys (backslash and semicolon, IIRC). KBP offered to mail me some replacement switches to solder in, but I've never soldered anything and the time and money involved in trying the repair wouldn't have been worth it next to the price of the keyboard. They also recommended a firmware upgrade, but the installation tool wouldn’t recognize the keyboard.
It’s disappointing, because I quite liked the switches, despite a lot of wobble and the very rattly spacebar. The board is sitting in a drawer now.
I also have a Matias Mini Tactile Pro, version 4, which had one stuck key when I bought it, which I fixed by popping off the keycap and blowing into the switch. Should that even work? Zero problems after that, except that one of the rubber feet on the bottom fell off.
I have a V80 that initially had Cherry MX Clear switches. It would chatter a lot, even though it was just two keys instead of one registering, not three. Initiially I got some newer firmware from KBParadise, from the Mac version of the KB, but that didn't do anything.
I had to remove all the LEDs and all the switches and replace them with some Gaterons I had lying around. This finally fixed the chatter.
I think that KBParadise uses incredibly bad switches and maybe some very aggressive debouncing, otherwise I can't explain the amount of issues with their keyboards.
0:10 what keycap set is this..?
I love the keycaps. Black look better but the font is very nice.
I have the same keyboard with Matias click and taihao doubleshot caps, i used to work but i lost the 'k' keycap, it don't really use it anymore
What do you mean by you lost the k keycap? You lost the cap itself, or the switch doesn't work anymore?
I am considering the Ducky Shine 7 keyboard as a purchase.
Do you have any opinions of that keyboard?
Moreover , I have also been looking into Realforce topre keyboards or a Rama keyboard.
My budget would be around - 400 euro if the quality is there.
Any recommendations?
Fucking hell mate, that's a lot of money for a keyboard. Have you tried anything Topre-like yet before being willing to splash that much? I don't have any Duckies atm btw.
Hey Thomas, I have a TactilePro 4. I pulled my keys off and discovered a switch underneath Caps Lock that allows you to swap it and Ctrl. There's even an LED hidden underneath Ctrl, ever awaiting for someone to use this feature.
I wanted to know if it was on earlier or PC versions of the TactilePro.
Would you assume the switches are worn somewhat &/or just touchy on those particular keys due to the gold coating and construction? Cheers bud :-)
Why are you pressing the H key both with your left and right hands (most often with the left one)?
Ever since I had a sample of these quiet click keys, I've been looking forward to buying this board. But potential reliability issues are now making me re-think between these and Zealios.
When you say "You like these better than the Alps original Tactiles, do you also include switches like Alps Orange and Alps Salmon? I don't really like the cream and black but I think Orange and Salmon are in a different level compared to those. Or are you only mentioning the bamboo alps?
No, orange and salmon are absolutely not included in that statement! Those are MUCH better.
@@Chyrosran22 Were your dampened SKCM pine or bamboo?
@@Chyrosran22 Try comparing orange/salmon with the "quiet clicks" with the dampeners removed. IMHO the qc are actually smoother and more tactile (haven't tried them in a proper keyboard, though).
This is quite reminiscent to me of the Razer green switch keyboard you reviewed that had a more "rugged" switch but many of the switches failed.
Hey chyro, I was wondering what kind of keyboard does the sound in your intro... it is amazing to be honest
Alps SKCM Blue from an Acer 101A. Metal mounting plate with a thick plastic case so the click instead of the clack is accentuated.
I use one of these at work and mine also had chatter with several keys. Like others here have said, I found the problem went away after opening the offending switches and wiping off the contact leaf. Mine's been chatter free for over a year now after having cleaned up about half a dozen switches.
sounds like it might be an issue with the lube?
can't really compare switch sound between two entirely differently keyboards. the AEK had a lot more space inside the case than the v80 which looks like it has next to no open spaces within the case. that's where you're getting the pitch difference. solid build & minimal area for the sound to bounce around = a deeper sounding keyboard, thicker caps can help as well. (ps. writing this on an apple adb keyboard 658-4081 ... the IIgs - orange alps)
I bought a matias quiteclick, I really liked it. BUT the P key chattered so bad I had to return it... Now I'm rocking a Wooting 2 (just came in!) and I'm really enjoying it. Mine was a Matias brand board.
Woot! Matias FTW!
Great review! And you have a really great sounding voice over, too! Which kind of mic setup do you use and are you using a sound booth some some kind?
Have you reviewed any keyboards with cherry mx silent mx black switches? I'm considering buying a KBParadise V80 with cherry mx siletn black
Can´t u lay your hands on some kailh low profile keyboards¿? I would like to see a review of one of those. Especially of the gamdias hermes p3 blue/red switch.
My Razer BlackWidow Ultimate 2014 started getting chatter after 2 years of light use, and it got so bad that ‘N’ would type 6 times most of the time, and I even got it to type 11 times. Amazing.
WOW xD .
how are these switches for gaming? thinking of picking either a matias mini quiet pro or a niz 45g electrocapacitive board. i'm currently using outemu blues if that helps
In my opinion, no switch is made for gaming. I only care if it has N-Key Rollover because hysteresis and actuation points don't hinder my gameplay. So basically it's down to preference. These keys are your traditional key switches, they have a slider that moves to contacts together and Bam a circuit is closed sending a signal. Electro capacitive is usually a fancier rubber dome that doesn't use a membrane but instead a capacitive PCB. So either you should ask yourself whether you prefer a high quality rubber dome or a traditional key switch. I'm no rubber dome hater as long as they are tactile so you won't see any snobbery from me.
Spacebar certainly has that "asshole coworker clipping their fingernails the next cubicle over" pitch to it
Can you review the sweets?
I thought I saw somewhere that they had a bad switch batch a couple of years ago and had corrected the problem, so it makes me wonder about more recent boards displaying any problems. I have two recently-purchased Matias boards and they are both great
this guy has such a nice voice holy shit
Sisu?! TORILLA TAVATAAN!!!
Tortilla what? XD
@@Chyrosran22
TOP DEFINITION
torilla tavataan
"Torilla tavataan" means "let's meet at the Market Square". The square is the location of big celebratory events, such as ice hockey world championship victories, and whenever Finland is mentioned outside its borders in any form, people use "torilla tavataan" sarcastically to make fun of the fact that the Finns are obsessed by international recognition and attention and "what do they think about us". It's commonly used with a word about or from Finland.
Tortilla :D :D :D
Perkele
It could chatter bcs gold has a higher conductivity that could be causing arcs to jump the gap when the plates get close
i wonder if someone made a competition about the dumbest name for the product ever, would matias quiet clicks win
Well lets see who's in the running:
Razer MECHA-MEMBRANE
Tesoro AGILE RED
Any other "gamer" switches...
And honestly (sorry) I think calling a switch "complicated" as in "complicated alps" is kind of silly too (again, sorry for the heresy).
Tbh I think "Royal Kludge" would have a good shot as well xD .
I think your chatter comes from the previous owner over lubing the switches. I replicated this in numerous simplified alps switches, till I learned that they need just the tiniest amount (if any at all.) I had a V80 daily driver with clickies for ages, it was pretty bulletproof, survived my toddler abusing it. They became the de-facto boards I've recommended to family and friends when they ask for advice; never heard of anyone having a problem, certainly not chattering. Just my 2c, and a sample of half dozen isn't representative so...
Edit: My board came with a braided cable with a much smaller plug. Are you sure that's the original cable?
I sometimes mix up the cables, so it's probably not the original one, no. That said, the switches come lubed out of the factory.
So my one (60% Quit) did chatter on the space bar out of the box. And it seems like a very common issue with KBP board, also my sample number is one.
I still suspect the lube. A fair number of keyboards with Matias switches have floated through my hands, and most of the tactile ones have had at least one chattering key. None of the clickies did. Haven't tried any linear ones yet.
1:00 Fuck a what?
You mentioned the switches in this keyboard were lubed more than your others. I think I've heard the switches in KBParadise boards come/came overly pre-lubed, and that this caused the very bad chattering issues, though I never looked too far into it and I may be misremembering.
Not really MORE lubed that others, but I'm beginning to suspect the lubricant is actually the cause.
Hey chyro, I've been watching a lot of your videos lately and they have gotten me interested in the types of switches. I was wondering what were the best "heavy" switches aside from mx greens. I have mx silvers right now and they just feel a bit to light.
What's best for one person isn't necessarily the best for another, but if you like REALLY stiff (and tactile) clicky switches, you might want to check out BOX Navy switches. Go check out my review of them if you're interested. That said, do make sure the new batch has fully fixed the keycap issue.
I have also experienced the chattering problem with my V80 (bought in Jan 2016) and its terrible especially if the chattering key happens to be part of your password.
On my V80 it appeared after a few years of regular use (on the 'e', 'a', 'o' keys) and is over time slowly spreading to more keys. KBParadise shipped me some switches for free and I have been replacing switches by soldering them off and on.
For comparison I also have a cherry brown TKL thats been going strong since 2012 without ever chattering.
I'm experiencing the chattering on my Dvorak Pro keyboard. I'm inclined to chuck it out because of the cost and hassle of getting replacement switches to NZ and soldering them in. =(
These goddamn switches are so incredibly scrumptious lubed. Mine did not come well lubed if at all.
But they took an incredibly long time to lube and compared to MX style switches, they positively drink up tribosys 3204 with the surface area on the dampeners.
What do you call it when something is amazing but you would never, ever in your life do it again?
I have a V80 with Matias Clicks and it has always had chattering issues too. Shame because I love the switches.
I'm actually currently dealing with chattering from an Omnikey 101 (1994), SKCM white on about 5 switches. I'll have to end up replacing some of the switches (I have a few spare from a cream build).
Like I said, it's not unheard of, but it's certainly not that common either. Keep in mind your board is about 20 years older, too ;) .
I just got a NIB v80 on eBay with Fukkas, which feel okay but much less refined than Matias Click. I'll be putting in "Midnight Blues" (Complicated Pine housings with long, steel "curly" click leaves from Tai-Hao APC click switches and thick, dielectric silicon lube on the stem guides) once I have time to break out the soldering iron. I would love to hear what you think about it if you have any APC switches and put one together. It's not as great for someone who already has blue Alps, but it has a thockier, crisper click than whites with a much softer feel. Great video as always-Keep 'em coming! -KC
Have you ever try using dampened cream sliders inside orange switches? Some people really like that combination...
No, but I'm not really sure the dampening will even work in that case (the housing has posts rising up to meet the dampeners).
Bah. I want Matias loud click. At least 106 db.
Eli joku suomalainenki kattoo näitä PERKELE
Tomaatiketsuppi!
Joo minä
juuh gyy
Mäki!!!
tottakai
Can't be fucked with chattery electro mechanical (is that a proper definition?) switches any more, I really just want to see more switches in the capacitave realm. Optical and hall effect are cool too though.
Unfortunately I can also corroborate the poor reliability. I have a V60 with Matias Click on which the tilde key stopped working, and a Quiet Pro which closes windows whenever I press Alt.
Just got a v60 for 40€ what a steal and I lubed the stabs which makes it so quiet that I can use it while traveling for work 🙂
I had one switch on my V80 with the Matias quiet clicks chatter infinitely, so that was nice. To make it stop you had to press the key again, hard. Needless to say, the board is unusable (other swithces were chattering too), and I can only hope that I get the inspiration to plant some nicer (= more reliable) Alps switches to it some day.
edit: TORILLA TAVATAAN!
Dude did you just have cyclic preferences on your switches?
My Model 01 has chattering Quiet Clicks. Apparently it can be caused by too much lube and they recommend cleaning them with isopropyl alcohol.
...I love these with the dampeners removed...
Me too. I've only tried them as single switches clicked into a plate from a disassembled board, but in that setting and direct comparison I think they are even better than orange alps - smoother and crunchier at the same time.
I think that Alps-style switches would be more popular if they came with MX mounts. Alps produced MX-mount stems, right?
Edit: corrected formatting of Alps. I was probably thinking of some other switch manufacturer who produced both kinds of mounts.
I don't think so but someone currently makes cherry stemed sliders for Alps switches. A bit pricey though, $10 for a pack of 10 so yeah.
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 I saw Chyros' review for those; it sounds like they have a lot of potential but that they have a ways to go. It sounds like they weren't designed to work with clicky switches.
Matias changed their tooling a year or two ago to fix the chatter issue.
I think the chattering is caused by the excess lubricant. I've got one of these, although with double shot abs keycaps. Spacebar chattered like hell, took the switch apart, cleaned off the lubricant and now looks like it's fixed. It's a shame because the keyboard itself is rather well made, the switches feel amazing and while it isn't that inexpensive it surely is worth it over a MX type switch board.
Maybe that's why some people report the chattering issue "going away" when they're "broken in". It could just be the lube wearing off and with that, the chattering as well. But that's an assumption on my end, and is by no means a result. Maybe somebody can test this someday.
@@Spearra I've had success also by bending just a little, little bit the contact leaf towards the spring. Just be very delicate.
PLEASE REVIEW APC AND TAI HAO ALPS CLONES NEXT!
Can you get hot swappable alps keyboard? I don't like to solder.
As far as I know, such a board doesn't exist.
@@Chyrosran22 not to be too much of a pest, but you'd think more keyboard manufactures would make their boards hot-swappable. They could even put it on the box as a selling point. (Goodness knows how they like to write meaningless crap on the box) It would probably make the board more expensive to make but given the ridiculousness of RGB lighting, at least give people the choice. And they'd probably make a killing selling different switch types. That's it; thanks for listening.
@@canonwright8397 Hot-swappability wouldn't suit Alps very much due to the design of the plate wing clips which can't be loosened from above. In addition, really, soldering is easy, anyone can do it ;) .
I had this same keyboard and it also had a chattering issue.