LTT Kenesis Review
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2024
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Kinesis Advantage 360: bit.ly/Prime-Kinesis
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Hey I am sponsored by Turso, an edge database. I think they are pretty neet. Give them a try for free and if you want you can get a decent amount off (the free tier is the best (better than planetscale or any other))
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[23:35] "Who uses capslock? SQL Engineers." Fuckin gottem
"engineers"
ENGINEERS
You haven't worked on a big enough project if you don't believe SQL can be engineering. I'm a DevOps Engineer and have been stumped before trying to understand & optimize SQL based DBs in certain situations.
@@hundvd_7
Lol! I do use it though, if there's 3 or more capital letters.
real gamers know the best flame is all caps or no caps
ofc he didn't turn off alerts
He never turns off alerts!
The man needs an alert to turn off the alerts!
It's my hope that they give him lots of joy.
There is one constant in the universe, it is this
of course not, obligatory "forgot to turn off alerts"
Glove80 user here. I adjusted the height once at the beginning and it is enough. Apart from that, I like the cheap feeling. My wife still hasn't asked me about the price.
I looked it up and it's the keyboard I've been dreaming! But I'm not rich
My hands were starting to suffer RSI; the Glove80 has solved it completely. It justified the cost easily, as the pain of worse RSI would have cost me far more in lost income if I didn't get it.
After having tried the model 100, Ergodox ez, the glove80 has been a great great board for my RSI, and is a decent enough middle ground on configuration
Also use the glove80. I have mine mounted on my chair's arm rests. It's fantastic.
Look the cost might seem like a lot but its something that you use for 8-10 hours a day and it'll last for a decade at least. Compared to the cost for handling RSI and the various tunnels, it's just not even close.
@@draakisback yeah, its pretty clear every decision for this board has been dictated by ergonomics first
I would rather pay extra to NOT have RGB thanks
Exactly
You would pay extra to not have a feature that you could turn off?
@@shmink2 Yeah and having to turn it off every single time I turn on the computer. So I turn on the computer, turn off the monitor RGB, turn off the desktop RGB, turn off the mouse RGB then turn off the keyboard RGB.
I wanted to learn about this keyboard but I ended up learning about a subculture of the sweatiest nerds I’ve ever seen. No hate, just an observation.
2:26 plus the 1km long space bar we have on standard keyboards is not a very clever idea.
it's named "space" for a reason
I'd say it is clever. I tried shifting all keys up by one, so the zxcv row became a thumb cluster and it was painful. If you observe what motion the thumb is meant to do, it makes sense that you can just swipe the thumb unga bunga and roughly press space.
@@theodorealenas3171you made me laugh out loud, thank you
what the fuck is a kilometer!?!!
Stupid Americans
The "stands" on the glove80, aka the legs, have been treating me quite well. The included ones are easy to adjust, and they have different height rods if you want to try more extreme tilting. It allows you to really fine-tune your exact tenting angle, and it isn't that finicky. They also ship with O-rings, which is nice to keep the legs locked just right. What I ended up doing, because I need extreme-ish tilting, was buying my own rods (which are of a standard size, m4 or something) and nyloc nuts (which they recommend in the user manual) and fixing the tenting angle on the rods to exactly what I want. They provide extra leg bottoms with the keyboard btw, so the only reason I had to buy anything was to go for extreme tilting.
+1 for Glove80, got mine two weeks ago.
I’ve had mine for a while now with brown switches, and absolutely love it.
Use it with standard Dvorak on all my systems.
Also, for people in Europe it’s cheaper to get than a Kinesis.
+1 for glove80, ordered mine last week. Desperately waiting for it to arrive.
Is the dished design significantly improving over something like the ZSA Moonlander, for someone who doesn't need the wireless features? End result is getting pricey, but the tents for Moonlander seem substantial at least. I'm coming from mostly gaming/mechanical keyboards and definitely feeling my age with longer writing and coding sessions. Currently use just a Logitech K860 but I'm inevitably led back to the luxury of RGB and mechanical keyboards whenever I can.
+1 here too. Got mine with kailh white clickys, and switched to colemak-dh layout. By far it's already my favourite keyboard.
I have the wired version of this keyboard. I like it more than my advantage 2 that I also own. I like the fact you can spread your arms out wider and achieve a more natural ergonomic elbow position.
Also, I upgraded the USB cable to 2 ft with RGB. Now I can type extra wide while still having that gamer feeling. I also bought the pads. Worth it for me. Love the magnet connection. Allows for easy cleaning.
Corne, 80% smaller - way better.
I'm a freelancer dev and a hobbyist writer, so my life is basically a race to get enough money to buy an ergonomic keyboard before my hands stop working
nice mid-stop is MS Sculpt - not as fancy as the Kinessis, and sadly not mechanical, but a very nice option. I have 3 of those at once - one I bough for myself, and two are from two different jobs that I got to take home after I moved on :)
I just wish there was a low profile mechanical keyboard in the same chassis...
Just build any split ergo keyboard. If you solder one yourself it can be less than $100.
I got one last year and it is awesome I hope you get one soon
@@Qrzychu92 I would do lots of things to get my hands on a mechanical version of the ms sculpt - I keep trying new keebs, and keep coming back to the sculpt.
currently saving money for a chair that costs more than my sectional couch.
ok, the moment you've started to search within the file system with terminal was super nice
I had a Kinesis Gaming keyboard that shorted out. Decided to try the ZSA Moonlander keyboard. Loved the ability to tent the keyboard but didn’t like the complexity. Company was nice enough to send me new rubber feet for free, though. I saw that the Kinese Gaming keyboard has a tenting attachment now. I immediately reordered the Kinesis Gaming keyboard with tent kit. My favorite setup yet. Neck pain is gone and I can assign stratagems to the macro keys.
This keyboard absolutely saved me from having to get carpel tunnel surgery and has allowed me to heal so much over the last 2 years that I can rock climb and do bench press again. Anyone who scoffs at the price needs to consider the medical bill and quality life change of ruined wrists.
These keyboards are to programmers what professional running shoes are to athletes. I can still use a basic qwerty keyboard here and there when I'm on the move, the same way I can use Vans when I'm walking around. But if I have a programming session, I use this keyboard the way a runner would use proper running shoes to avoid injury.
I know there are cheaper ergonomic split keyboards out there, but none check all of the boxes for me like the Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro does. It is so sturdy, I even use it when I'm laying on the couch or bed; I just put either half on the side of my body, and since it is split, it is small enough to snuggly fit in my messenger bag without worry of anything snapping or breaking.
Get a Corne bro, way better and more modern.
@@bobbastian760 Doesn't look as durable. Also, doesn't look like the tenting is anywhere near as sturdy or versatile as the Kinesis. Also, no key wells.
I've just got a glove 80 and its great. Had never used a ergonomic keyboard before this now im all in changed to vim, engram key layout full touch typing
ayy also going with the engrammer once i switch
My one wired consession was to get that logitech charging mousepad and wireless charging mouse. Means the cable goes neatly to the pad, and my mouse doesn't cable snag, but also never runs flat of charge. Its amazing.
You've been reaaaaaally making me want to try the Kenesis. Looks like it could help wrist pain when I obsessively hyperfixate on some code in all my free time for several weeks.
The thumb cluster is certainly intimidating.
Do it! I can type for hours without pain now. Took ~two weeks to get there though.
Also I kinda disagree on the wireless take. But I'm heavily using the Bluetooth profiles to switch between devices. Charging is required only once a month or something. ZMK isn’t really user friendly though for customizing / updating. That’s the Pro in the name of the 360.
Kinesis contoured keyboard are game changing and life changing. The thumb clusters are amazing once you figure them out. (And provided you have “average” sized hands. I’ve put Command, Alt, Ctrl, Esc on the left hand 1u keys, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn on the right. Love it.
Been using the Kinesis for a few weeks now. Loving it. I tried getting the Ergodox a few years back, didn't work for me: the symbol layout (due to the lack of keys) was messed up. The concave key well also makes the ortholinear layout a lot more sensible, especially for people with tiny hands like me... being able to reach things with the pinky is neccessary!
I definitely identified with the wrist pain issue. I experience that shooting pain when I get into heavy programming sessions; which is off an on enough that I never associated the pain to my keyboard ergonomics. I am an avid gamer as well and just figured my pain was from playing too long (which yes that is part of the issue); however, I play games pretty much every night and the wrist pain doesn't always present itself. Watching this video made me realize it is in conjunction with heavy programming sessions. The issue of reaching for the symbol keys is spot on. I use the [ ], ( ), and { } a lot and when you said that about reaching those it clicked. I don't ever use those keys in gaming, but am constantly using them in programming. I can't wrap my mind around the thumb clusters, so I don't think the Kenesis is the keyboard for me, but thanks to your chat I am now researching alternate keyboards mentioned (specifically looking at the Glove80 right now).
@ThePrimeTime - I own Glove80 and its super light. Some may say its cheap because of that but its pretty sturdy IMO. Stands are good too just not something you can adjust quickly but its more precise
that thing looks yuge bro - corne is tiny and likely much more versatile - and portable.
strongly recommend looking into building your own kb if you wanna take the next step. I have a wireless split kb and have to recharge once every 6 month thanks to 10A batters on each side.
@ThePrimeTime the dock is designed for multimedia developers, like if you have to link cameras, laptops, and other items. dealing with portable data for your station. this one is not for laptops directly but for bridging a desktop 'battle station' for all your other devices. heavily needed for some fields, mainly video production
It is for laptops mainly, as seen in the ad itself. I have a similar Thunderbolt 4 dock to have my monitor and all the peripherals, as well as Ethernet and power, to connect to my laptop via a single cable.
I read an old research paper a while back, they had found that few users who used a keyboard in excess of 8 hours per day complained about pain, that more who used just a mouse experienced pain, and that those who used both for longer than 7 hours a day were guaranteed to experience pain.
You don't need an ergonomic keyboard or keyboard layout if you switch to a keyboard-driven workflow and avoid the mouse like the plague, but they sure are nice and I never looked back after switching to my dactyl 6x6. However if I get another, I will customize the stl for my finger length, get the 6x4 and use more mod keys.
Bought a Kinesis 360 (non-Pro) a couple months ago. My WPM is almost where it was with a TKL keyboard but I am much happier with this. First thing I did was remap the DELETE key to ESC, major upgrade for Vim life.
I just ordered the 360 with kailh thick click navys.. got wired too
I bought the glove80 with clicky whites bc kinesis stopped doing the upgrade keyboards deal for a while but now that they're back I had to get the thick clicks.
Don't love the glove tenting solution.. otherwise it's great.. I'm happy that it is very close layout-wise so I'm just getting more and more ready for my 360
I got a split keyboard just a few weeks ago, the moonlander. And thus far I love it. my wrists have thanked me, Many reviews I watched on the moonlander before I got it said that they only use two of the four thumb keys. But Idk how, I use them all, all the time.
btw. after a few weeks, my type speed is now about 50-70 percent of my normal is. still getting used to it
I use only all on the right cluster. On the left side, I only use it it one button there 🙂 But yeah, Moonlander is awesome especially because of the layers.
I have been a SWE for a couple of years now - a colleague of mine had a herniated disc - probably also because he cheaped out on ergonomics. Ergo doesn't need to be expensive either, before buying a $500 keyboard consider the following items:
1. Get a good chair - height adjustable (your back will thank you) made of a breathable material (sweating sucks)
2. Get a monitor that's height adjustable - if it isn't adjustable, prop it up with books. So that your neck is straight when you look at it.
3. Get a table that is tall enough so that your arms rest at a right angle ( Having arm-rests on the chair helps a lot!)
3. Get a keyboard - ergo or not. Avoid working with a laptop only - the hunched over position is really bad - leads to muscle tension and an overall bad posture.
A good budget friendly option is the Markus chair from Ikea. ticks everything you mentioned and it's like 150€ and comes with a 10 year warranty. And while you're at a IKEA get a 15€ foot rest. Also most people will do well enough with a normal ergonomic keyboard in the 35-100€ range. Kinesis et al. are the gilded pens of programmers. It's nice to get nice stuff for your profession but you can just as well write a novel using a regular Lamy.
@@bcfuerst Admittedly I have a more fancy chair - I can suggest the *Herman Miller Mirra Chair* Which I picked up for $200 in an office yard sale. Cool thing is you can buy replacement parts; seat broken - you take an Alan-key and the replacement seat and exchange it. I like to do buy used in most cases... You get better stuff for less - and the environment is also better off...
Daily exercise and a healthy deit also greatly prevents this.
Got one of these recently once they had a pro version with pink switches. Game changer no more wrist pain from a previous injury. You can’t put a price on your health
I used to think that having a Bluetooth keyboard would be a bad idea, but after using a wireless Corne with ZMK for 2 months, I've changed my opinion. ZMK supports wired mode (you don't even need batteries) so Bluetooth is an optional addon that helps when working with multiple PCs. I have mine wired to my main PC, and when i need to switch to my laptop, it's as simple as toggling between bluetooth/wired mode, and switching to a bt profile (there are 5). No need to swap cables between PCs. Also, you can have 5 active BT connections, so no noticable lag when switching bt profiles. In summary, wired works - Bluetooth is an optional addon. 🎉
Batteries on keyboards last forever too as long as you don't have the RGB disco mode on. Like weeks or months.
Also i would say that having a 2.4ghz dongle keyboard is infintely better than just having bluetooth, I would never go with bluetooth again after using a keychron for a long time, also windows integration of bluetooth sucks ass
@@zednik8956 also not all computers support bluetooth
What controller are you using on your Corne? Is it the nice!nano or some other board? Fast switching would be a real QoL change for me.
Switched to this keyboard on a whim a few weeks ago after seeing your unboxing video. Took about a week to adjust to it but I love it now, as it feels a lot more natural to use. I have never had any wrist problems with keyboards, though so I can't speak to any benefits in that sense. Minor typing speed improvements, thing it's the first time I have passed 100 wpm, but I think that is mostly due to using all of my fingers as previously I would only use index, middle, and ring finger on my right hand and would use my left hand to reach for some right hand keys.
Get a Corne bro - 80% of the plastic removed, you don't need that many keys, pick your own switches including chocs - WAY better than this hunk of plastic.
@@bobbastian760 Why have you commented to like 10 people saying buy a corne. There are so many reasons that the Corne is not "WAY" better than this "hunk of plastic" whether its key wells or simply durability. No need to justify your purchase by making others feel like they should do the same.
I have a wireless JBL Quantum 810...
The good thing about that headset it can do wireless through a wifi dongle, but also through bluetooth.. but now comes the neat part... It can also do wired through 3.5 mm jack... But ALSO through usb.
And of course for the 3.5 mm jack you don't even have to turn it on.. and as for the usb cable... If the battery is completely drained then you need to plug the usb cable in and audio still works over usb.. but if the battery is completely drained then you do have to wait 2 minutes
Love seeing ergonomics discussed. MoErgo keyboard I the goat. IMO. Worth checking out
@ThePrimeTime do you plan to sell (and ship) the ones
you don't use? I'm would like to buy one, but it is hard to get in Europe.
11:24 I can see why Primeagen has that order. I got the moon lander as it was an ortho-linear keyboard, now I'm looking into a keyboard with those things in mind. Either way it was a better choice for me, but then I realized there are better options. Moon lander is more customizable then the Kinesis, and I have done some that has improved the experience.Now I'm looking into a dactyl keyboard, but with so many options it is hard to choose one.
I've never used ZMK based keyboards before, but can you program stuff like double tapping a key to make it do something different? Hold it to do something different? I make use of that in my QMK based keyboards quite a bit, and once you figure out how you want to set it up and get used to it it's incredibly nice.
@32:52 if they'd used QMK they could possibly get VIA support on the thing, then you get the best of both worlds. Nice web based config for people that want that, and you can still compile your own keymap using QMK and get as train emoji as you want with it if you don't
Yes. Mod-tap, tap-dance, hold-mod, etc. are all their but the way they're configured is a bit different so getting the timing right gets a bit a weird. I was able to port my Corne layout from QMK to ZMK but the same timings don't work the same. Bilateral combinations are supported out of the box without using something like Achordion or having to program the logic yourself.
I think both run on the same "Core" so whatever you use the only thing diffrent is the fact ZMK works for wireless keyboards.
Don't quote me on that, though.
I use a ZSA Moonlander and its a unit. Reduced to 42 key layout and added some layers. So nice to have an ergo keyboard honestly, game changer no doubt.
Genuine question: I'm a software engineer and I want to move to keyboard only. But, I find myself using the browser or other stuff quite a bit, what do you do for those Primeagen? Thanks!
Have you tried the vi keybinding in bash? (I'm sure you have... but hear me out. I switched to `set -o vi` about 20 years ago when my boss told me about it, and I've never looked back).
Having built my own split keyboard using the nice!nano as controllers, I have never had any problems with BT connectivity, also didn't think it could be that good
The thing is that he compares to the off the self enthusiast keyboard product like the keyboards from keycron that also use qmk but they use vial which is a Browser app that you can give usb access in chome browsers to do all the configuring and flashing of qmk without the user needing to actually use qmk. The thing is that kenesis uses zmk which I don't know if it supports the use of vial.
Not ashamed to admit it, I got the Kinesis 360 because I saw you use it. Probably the best purchase I've made for my Software Development Career.
I’ve been using a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. Relatively inexpensive, but the wireless dongle has been extremely reliable, and the batteries last forever so charging isn’t an issue. Certainly beasts Bluetooth. That said, I think I need to upgrade to something that gives me more travel on the keys. I’m starting to get pain near my finger tips/ first joint.
Got myself a ZSA Moonlander a few months back. It's been an absolute gamechanger. They have a great software (Oryx) which lets you customize the keyboard. It actually flashes to the board itself so it persists, as in it doesn't depend on some shitty software running on the machine. I've tweaked my keyboard to be the perfect (for me) neovim beast. Highly recommend. The Kenesis looks nice as well (I had their split board before, but not the ergonomic one), but the Moonlander is in a league of its own IMO.
💯 agree. I love my Moonlander and it's flashing capabilities! Never have to worry about my key layout and layers no matter which machine I plug that bad boy in.
crone, sweep some of them if you get without led or a mini screen you can get away without charging them for 6 months. The are also split.
I am actually planning to buy this baby, I already have a vertical mouse since I could already feel the strain on my wrist using regular mouse.
EDIT: I posted this comment before the video ended. I saw Glove80 at the end, and actually wanted to try it first since I do like to have dedicated Fn keys
So, with the Pro, can you be connected wired and then switch to a different machine with Bluetooth? Seems like a better KVM that way, but it does rely on Bluetooth.
I used to use the ergodox and my biggest complaint was travelling with it. I mostly work from home, but would need to go into the office for a few days here and there and it was always a nuisance. I switched to a HHKB and it’s a pleasure to type on and easy to travel with.
That's my main beef with the ErgoDox as well, I just built myself a Corne with choc switches to check if I can adapt to a much smaller keyboard and I think I'll change the controller to make it wireless just so that I don't have to worry with the TRRS cable. If you don't like to DIY, there are other options, like the Corne-ish Zen, ZSA Voyager and the UHK, if you want a "less awkward" keyboard.
I have the Advantage360 (non-pro) and have been using various models going back to the Kinesis Classic (got mine in 2001). These are great keyboards though I have to admit, the location of the braces has always felt off. IMO, it feels more natural to map the custom (1-4) keys on the Advantage360 to the open/close curly and straight braces than to curl the 2 weakest fingers down 2 rows every time I need to type a brace...
Any recommendations for something cheap? And by cheap i mean no more that $100 (preferably less). A live in a country with bad currency, and as much as i want a Kenisis.. that's my months salary.. But it is definitely time i get a split ergonomic keyboard..
john hammond would be flying around the room trying to type his name
Owning my Advantage 2 for 13 years now. Made me learn Dvorak and stick with it. Incredibly reliable keyboard. Did a QMK mod a year ago after spilling a large amount of water over it lol. Had one warranty claim within their warranty period back then and they just send me the needed replacement switch and let me solder it in myself without invalidating my warranty yeah! Lately I need more room on my table and am traveling a lot with my keyboard and am exploring the Corne v3 for that. But Kinesis is my biggest love in tech. Will probably add Mill Max sockets to make the switches replaceable.
My impression of his take on the reprogramming was that the pro keyboard should support the simpler GUI in addition to the ZMK support. That way the people that wanted to use the GUI for some simple changes could, but the more power users could continue to use ZMK if they wanted.
I live in Brazil and is f-difficult to import any KINESIS keyboard, well, I paid twice its price and bought one, I'm currently in love with the keyboard.
Prime, do you use any ZMK/QMK advanced feature in yours?
As a brazilian, here's my tip: DIY is a lot cheaper, if you got the patience and knows someone with a 3D printer, you can save a lot of money. You can also arrange your orders so you don't spend over 50 bucks in any of them and avoid most of the taxes you'd pay on a commercial, off the shelf product. But I also got to admit, unless you're really willing to put quite a bit of effort, no DIY solution will be as "polished" as a mass market product. You get what you pay for...
Been thinking of getting a nice split ergo keyboard of some type but the problem is theyre all unique there's no way to know if it would work/feel correct for me and at that price point you cant just buy five and test them ya know?
I was always sceptical about wireless keyboards/mouse/gamepads but I recently bought Keychron mouse that supports wire(1000Hz),bluetooth(125Hz) and 2.4GHz(1000Hz and 4000Hz!) and it works so good at 1000Hz in 2.4GHz mode that they got me. I absolutely don't feel any lag, there is none instability, it is just perfect. On the other hand my older keychron keyboard works so bad on bluetooth that I use it only in wire mode, but ofc you are right, who really needs wireless keyboard for desktop.
I really like the consistency that having the two halves fused gets you, Advantage2 4 ever
I've used the adv2 for the last 4 years. I switched to it after I started getting pain in the first 2 weeks of a new job (I never had pain for 10 years of heavy computer use and programming before that, but the tasks I was assigned were nutty). The pain never went away, but I could keep having a job. I don't know what happened but something f'd up my fingers, especially my pink. Maybe a micro fracture who knows, I can't even hold a phone anymore. I was definitely someone who would type like a madman sometimes, but somehow my birdbones were fine until then.
You did experiment with a Dactyl Manuform at one point however. That combined with your absolutely insane proficiency in Vim is what got me hooked.
Went for the Dygma Defy after testing what their software for programming the layers could do. No flashing firmware, just ship the change config.
Why place the arrows in some distant row if you can use the center of some "move" layer (E,S,D,F)? With end, home, etc around them.
I have both the Advantage and Advantage2. I learned Dvorak in parallel when I got them. Now I context switch based on whether I am using the Kinesis or my gaming keyboard.
I have 4 layers on my ZSA Moonlander.
1. the normal layer
2. a layer with a numpad that I never use, and some symbols, function keys, and some other stuff (so I can write ö á å æ ø)
3. a layer so I can press a function key and a normal letter (so I can do F3 A, etc in Minecraft)
4. a layer with the reset button as well as some color controls, and a way to move the cursor and click using the keyboard.
I mostly only use the first 2, then I use the last 2 in special situations.
i basically have the same. though i do use the numpad a good bit. i generally dislike entering numbers using the standard numkeys above the keyboard. its why i bought a nice full keyboard with browns like 4 years ago. now i use the moonlander since im going full into software dev and engineering.
I have 4 layers but I only ever use two most of the time. My secondary layer contains a mouse navigation layer (plus some pgup + page down and navigation keys for scrolling pages if I need to) for short clicks around websites when I don't want to lift my hands off of my keyboard. Three third rarely used layer is my numpad layer giving me full numpad on my right hand. The fourth layer I rarely ever use is for backlight controls - brightness up/down, patterns if I'm feeling fancy or whatever.
Kinesis is good, but for whatever stupid reason I like the per key RGB. Back in my more "lets see what I can do with this" days, I compiled the keyboard kernel, and added in conditions in the C code to handle things like changing colors if my backspace hit a "wall".. to visually alert me for example. Plus with multiple layers made it a little nicer to switch to my gaming layer and see my ASDF and other keys lit up for specific games. However.. I haven't done that with my latest IRIS split board.. I ended up building multiple IRIS boards and now I use a specific one for gaming that uses linear switches, and by far the best coding switch, THE JADE for my daily driver IRIS. I had the Model 01 and I did like having tab and enter keys for my index finger but most of the split boards I've set up for right thumb space, left thumb enter now. The primary thing I miss on my 56 key keyboard is the F1 - F10 easy access for gaming purposes since a lot of games use those for various things. I can map those to a sub layer.. but a bit of a pain in the ass if you use them in a game that needs quick access to them. I ended up getting a StreamDeck for that purpose which works well enough though still pain in the ass to set up for each game, key combinations, etc. The Iris is a fantastic daily keyboard, you can 3d print cases if you want, they have some VERY expensive (I bought one) angled very heavy aluminum enclosures.. makes the keyboard cost about $500 with PCB, switch and caps.. but so worth it.. the two pieces do not move and ThePrime said weapon.. I can promise you THIS keyboard would break the CyberTruck glass.
4:08 I started preferring wireless when I got a Wacom Cintiq pro, the damn thing is huge and requires 3 cables to work, those 3 cables are now cluttering my desk so much to the point where I just want to get rid of as many cables as possible; I ended up getting a Corsair K63 wireless and a Logitech G-Pro Superlight, it has been my setup since 2020~ and never had any of the wireless related issues that people mention. I recharge them once a week overnight on a different desk and using a wall charger so I don't really have hidden cables tucked on my PC. On my other computer though I still run a wired 60% custom keyboard and a wired Kensington Slimblade.
for those on the fence about soldered switches and dont want to splurge on the custom switches. i couldnt justify the upcharge for oil kings or the banana splits (or the time it takes) -- the silent pinks are actually kinda bussin. i can type light or heavy handed. sound is kinda hollow but imo its hollow in a good way. i came from a ferris sweep and a jelly epoch and i hand built both of them. the adv360 is a lovely combination of the two. deff doesnt sound as thocky as the epoch but is way more "ergo-bro" and comfier than the sweep. its just a huge joy to type and i would shill till i die. monkeytype while i listened to this btw -- 90wpm eng on recurva
I love my Moonalnder with their new tenting platform called 'Platform'. I've been very intrigued about the curve of Kinesis and Dactyl Manuform keyboards.
I've recently had my right ring finger amputated so might need to switch key layout. Split arrow keys take me back to playing games on my bbc micro where `zx.;` or `az,.` were typically used for direction input.
Am I right that the 360 does not have key caps for UK ISO layout?
Shortcircuit is an unboxing/first impressions channel not a full review channel
"Unboxing +", not a "Review -", like Linus said
The glove80 is light but is extremely well built
Mate the wrist rest budges when u press on it, same as the thumb cluster. It is cheap garbage made in china
@@sorvex9I'm not your mate, buddy.
@@kevinryan2992 I am not your buddy, fam.
I wonder if Prime ever tried Colemak or Workman? They are layouts that focus on getting your hands into a rhythm or every keeperless alternating your hands.
re: Glove80 legs 41:38
I think they are fine and give a lot of flexibility but they can be annoying to adjust correctly. several times now I've had one of the legs just fall off as I'm typing with the maximum tilting angle, they don't feel very stable after a certain height.
The keyboard feels amazing though, and not cheap at all, I love the low profile keycaps. the only other problem is that the palm wrest plastic is glowing a bit after a few months of usage.. which doesn't look nice haha
but the overall comfort is just nuts. best equipment investment i've made for sure
Overcompensating his small hands by typing aggressively😅
Have you tried the Dactyl Manuform? I love it.
I wonder if I am alone but I’ve got the kinesis advantage 2 and after some time spending on learning to write I had a thumb pain :/. It turned out that I was not able to continue using it, changed back to laptops keyboard and it went away
You misspelled Kinesis in your title - might wanna change it.
He's just Ken
I printed, built, and use a Dactyl Manuform as my primary keyboard. Absolutely love the freedom to recline back a bit and keep my arms spread apart while i write code
Why not just have the gui save your layout in qmk or zmk or whatever format you like?
have you ever tried a Corne keyboard?
it's more DIY, but if you like the Kenesis I wonder if you would like the Corne. Absolute game changer for me. Has a lot fewer keys however, so it's not for everybody.
That's what I have. Have a trackpoint module and a cirque touchpad module on each side. Perhaps more time to set up, but a lot more ergonomic and customizable
I also have a corne with tenting feet and home row mods. It's been a game changer. Having more keys is not always better. Having more customizability through software is more important IMO.
Im waiting on cipulots ec/topre corne kit
when you start some IA assistant project, or local llm examples?
regarding charging a wireless keyboard, i only charge my keyboard like 1 time per 2 or 3 months, i use the G915 TKL, i turn off LEDs, thats why its last so long, otherwise it would last like 3 weeks
Is the men in black keyboard thing real? Now I feel cool with my advantage2, which my homie got for my bday :)
The funniest part of the Advantage Pro being wireless, is that you actually need more usb ports than the non-wireless version. To plug the "wireless" version on 2 independent usb ports on the PC if you need to use while charging. While the non-pro only requires 1 usb to connect to a PC and 1 wire to connect a keyboard side to the other.
They don’t have to be charged at the same time, and the right side battery lasts forever. At least if you don’t use the backlight. I keep one of the cords at home, and one at the office because I use it in both locations.
I’ve been using the 360 Pro since the Drop pre-order shipped (October, 2022). I think I’ve charged it 2-3 times. When I needed to charge it, I just plugged it in at the end of the day and left it. Compare that to the BT trackball mouse that needs have its single AA battery changed about every six weeks. I love the features of the mouse, but it’s terrible for battery life.
"You depress the button"
...
I literally laughed out loud.
You should try a corne or something, small keyboard are great, it's so fast and feels great when you get used to it it's like vim motions
I have the Moonlander. I've really enjoyed it. I do have 2 layers... One for Mac and one for PC. The only difference is swapping the windows/Mac key with Ctrl lol.
hjkl in dvorak, sounds madness to move around vim like that. how comfortable actually is? question for dvorakers.
I'm a programmer-ish (devopsy role of building ci/cd pipelines and infrastructure automation) and I have never heard about zmk. I love my moonlander and their Oryx keyboard configuration software. I know why qmk and have fiddled around with qmk command line on my shell but never really cared much for it.
8:40 did they also make your knees weak and arms heavy?
keyboard enthusiasts often aren't willing to do much more than use the qmk configurator that creates a json of their keymap from a GUI, and compile with that keymap through the qmk client (never actually running make), and most will prefer that the keyboard supports via, which just lets them use a GUI and never have to compile anything. the non-engineer people willing to write their keymap in C are the people that want mega customization outside of normal layer/mod tap stuff
Wireless keyboard and mouse is good if you have a computer across from a bed or couch, like a media PC. although in my Dad's case he's mostly paralysed so it's his everything PC across from his bed (with walkable space in between as well)
I've done a repair on a housemates 360 Pro -- replacing a single switch and adding a bodge wire to fix a blown switch took over an hour with 8x magnification going. So if the third-party company is small then I can see the 6 month lead time being realistic
I would love to try this keyboard. I've gotten into building keyboards and love the one I have which is just a TKL, but I don't get why this kinesis is over $400. There's no premium materials. The switch selection is pretty abysmal. It's a fancy plastic mold, so that really leaves most of the innovation cost probably being the PCB and the assembly, but I have a hard time seeing with that's 4x the cost of another decent flat keyboard.
Well the point is, regardless of being able to use ZMK, if a GUI interface already exists why not have it?
I am a long time Kinesis Adv 360 pro user. The keyboard is mighty fine, BUT the bluetooth on it just outright sux. It's impossible to get it to pair to anything (and if it pairs, to not disconnect in a few hours) so I just have to use the USB and switch via usb switcher instead of switching the profiles. For that price, I really expected this to work. I keep it, because it solves a lot of issues I had ergonomy wise, but yeah, it is sad to see the three leds blinking so often :(
Have you updated your firmware to v2 since buying it? I had to do this and then it has been amazing ever since. Takes about 20 minutes to update it. Haven't had any issues since.
I tried the kinesis advantage 2 a bit back and found that it actually hurt my wrists more than my Microsoft ergo keyboard…I don’t have diagnosed RSI or anything like that, but I just noticed more strain and a slight pain.
I am a huge fan of the ZSA moon lander. It has also upped my efficiency in my coding.
I’ll have you know that the VS Code short cut to view definitions is CMD+KI 😊
About the excercise tip: Once when I was still in an office I came and found an awful chair in place of mine. I never had (still never have) back pain, but then immediately got after two days. Guess what literally doing pushups through the day made it go - but then third day I also got rid of the chair (just stole someones haha)
It’s so funny, his complaint about the price. My 360 Pro Signature from Upgrade Keyboards was ove $900, and it is worth it. Yes, ZMK is challenging, and blue tooth can be problematic from time to time, but I love it. FWIW this is my third Kinesis Contoured Keyboard…and my first one had a ps2 connector…
I use the 10 key pad quite a bit. The 0 on the thumb was a bit hard to find but good.
as for the pro only being able to be remapped by manually compiling zmk, this is a very possible problem to solve. zsa does it with their onyx configurator, they basically built a web app where you can map keys in a GUI with zero coding experience necessary, and it generates your keymap and compiles qmk for you. i've written my own qmk keymaps for various different keyboards before, but onyx is good enough that i didn't bother to do it with my voyager. i guess via is very similar, it's just not something zmk supports currently
Yep, ZSA nailed the software experience for their boards more or less from day one, including from the keymap design, flashing tools and now the new layout app, the whole process is so streamlined. Meanwhile ZMK was not supported well enough when the advantage 360 released for them to be shipping with it in a mass market product - and they haven't yet really done anything to advance or account for that. It feels like they prioritised wireless over robustness/support, which feels like a bad tradeoff.