Buttkickers vs Crowson Actuators
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- I upgraded from 4 Buttkicker Mini LFE units I have installed (2 per seat) to 4 Crowson actuators. I tested front vs rear install and 1 vs 2 although I forgot to mention in the video, that the results with 1 were more than good enough for casual viewers. People like you and I though will definitely want 2 per seat. While not a total game changer from what I had already, it was more than worth it, to me at least! NOTE: I contacted Crowson to specifically ask about putting the metal frame right on the actuators. They said nothing about damage at all and simply said if you do so, you can give up some efficiency. I put little plywood strips in between the actuators, isolation feet and the frame. I felt no obvious difference, but left them in.
crowsontech.com/
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Хобби
While I won't be getting these actuators (too expensive/don't need), I do wanna say that this was a very thorough, informative, and entertaining unboxing/review of these high-end forms of tactile bass producers. Thank you _very_ much for this video. I was great to watch while I sipped on my beer on this Friday night lol. Giving a thumbs up.
My favorite video on this subject ! Very well done
Was curious about these. Very thorough review and explanation. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, and great introduction to your channel. Thank you.
Just ordered an older version coming in 2 weeks. Can't wait to beq this
Awesome video. Can't wait till my level 3 arrives.
Very nice review. Thanks for putting that together. I'm currently using 3 x GSG Audio Design Devastators in my setup and get plenty of tactile response, but I'm
thinking of adding some of these for the sub 15hz response.
Trust me unless you’re sitting on the subs, they aren’t like transducers ;)
I ran across your videos looking for new theater seats. 1. good to see that there are RUclips reviews of the seats that weren't gifts from Valencia and 2) I have had a set of Crowson Actuators (older TES-100's) under my couch since 2007. They've been under one part of a sectional couch for 15 years and they have held up well and work just like new. The only issue is cosmetic as the pad on the top of them has worn where the couch feet sit from constant movement. My "demo" scene for guests is the Flight of the Phoenix when they board the plane until the time it crashes. You almost feel like you are in a seat with them.
Good to see that you can use them on the Valencia's without any issues. Mine span 2 seats on the sectional and you get plenty of feedback in both of those seats. Since I will be looking to a 3 seat setup with me in the middle, not sure how I should add the Crowson's but after seeing your video, I will add them to the front of whatever I end up getting.
Bought a pair of these recently. They are incredible. Thanks for the review CO Guy! I hope Dirac comes through for us with that non-eq output option.
I hope so too!
Been looking at these, just can’t find them in stock to buy… cmon supply chain!
Did they?
Nice video. Thanks for making it. 👍
Thanks for watching!
Imported them to 🏴 Love them! Just waiting for dual svs sb-16’s to arrive.
Thanks for the great review
Glad it was helpful!
Just picked up their first editions. No dsp yet just an amp and distance settings on the pre Pro. I've gotta say, CANNOT live without. Amazing. Made the mistake of trying to dial it in with sine waves so took ages. My amp is just an integrated one at 45watts which at 20% volume is more than enough. I think i need a subwoofer amp as its rating is 20hz to 20000hz? Once I get a minidsphd will be able to max out to its full potential and get ezbeq.
I am looking forward to installing my set on the Tuscany Seats as well. Did you ever try them in the back as well? If so did you notice a difference better or worse?
Enjoyed this video and the detail you put into describing the sensation.
You mention that these being actuators move the seat/object. Can I ask a huge favour, would you consider doing a video that highlights these moving a heavy object and how many mm is the travel?
Also, is the movement in relation to the frequency/eg lower frequency more bandwidth more movement?
How much travel is the amplitude, not frequency. How 'loud'. It's not much travel but doesn't need to be, to feel huge. It splashes water out of a glass in the cupholders!
I've had the OG Crowson's (TES-100) since 2007. Physical movement of the seat is minimal. The have worn the gritty pad on the top of the actuator, so I'd say less than 2mm at most over 15 years.
Nice video. Why don't more audiophiles use something like these for listening to music?
I have a two channel stereo setup using tube amplifiers in a basement with a concrete floor. I was thinking of trying something like these to see if I can get a little bit more tactile feel from the bass. Do you think that would be a good idea?
Thanks
That would be great!
Awesome video! I'm going to be making the plunge for my theater soon. Did you say you have the Nx3000D connected wirelessly? Which wireless kit are you using? I've seen Dayton makes one as does SVS, roughly the same price, Also would love to see a video of your EQ and settings to match sync etc. Keep it up!
I have a couple vids on using a minidsp to integrate, couple different ways and with ezbeq. I tried a bunch of kits, the svs are flawless and what I use
These look a lot easier to install too... Might have to go this route, because I don't have anything yet for bass kickers on my seats.
Unless you are like me and just love experimenting - just go with the best from the start :) The only downside is the cost, but it's worth it.
Thanks for all the effort you put on your videos, I have couple of questions, do you still recommend it as one or two per a recliner and did used both buttkicker and this crownson together
Just crowsons, adding lesser devices just makes them stand out and ruin the perfect response. I use 2 per seat
@@COGuyStuff great thanks
What a great video, thank you!
Is it possible you could be losing some energy into the rug? (because of its compressibility) I wonder if putting them on a hard floor would make any difference.
Not this one. There’s no pad and it has no pile. There’s no compression
Single vs dual? Would you say two per seat makes a worthwhile difference compared to single?
Good question. 2 is definitely better, and noticeable IF you come directly from a seat with one. But if you place it well so the effect is even, no one would ever complain about 1. I wouldn't spend extra money to do two per seat, but if like me it just works out for your main or no one else will use them much, go for it.
How does this compare to a sub in the seat like the lovesac StealthTech? Didn’t like the rest of the sound but the shake from the sub in the seat felt good.
Way more detailed, lower and powerful.
Awesome! Thank you sir! Merry Christmas!!
I'd like your thoughts on running one on every corner?
I'm in line waiting for the email.
I'm going to run 4 on my chair.
I want to get the feel with the volume very low.
Doesn’t get any better than completely supported :) that won’t help with what you feel at a given volume though, it will just make it more solid and detailed. You will just need to turn up the level to the amp to what you want
Tip for anyone looking for an amp for this. The amp Is very important. You need an amp with low thd and more than anything, verrrrry low frequency response. Literally 1hz to 20k hz at -1db, most are like 10hz lowest. difference Is the lost bandwidth per octave, like a steep shelf from 10hz and lower, when theres a lot of signal at the low end and you try to feel more by increasing power passed its theoretical range, it distorts and becomes audible. Another tip is high input sensitivity from the amp, 450 and higher.
My amp is a bk electronics bare amp I had to solder myself, usually used for science so rated from 1hz to 50khz at 100 watts per actuator. I got two amps so I could have stereo bass for games. Using a mini dsp DDRC88a with dirac uses on them, I can have 3 configs, movie mode with bass up to 35hz sloping down 24db, music with much lowered bass to at most feel like a live stages bass feedback, and games high cut off at 45hz with a 12db slope. A game pads vibration is so lack luster in comparison I turn the pads vibration off . Still working out kinks, would love a vibration mic to properly measure
The Crowson, Crown or Behringer amps are long time favorites for any transducers.
@@COGuyStuff fair. Did you say dirac cuts off baas under 10hz or doesn't work uts magic under 10hz? For me with dirac, 5hz tones still work fine, like a roller coaster (it actually gives more oomph there). If so, it mat be due to me earlier point where even the crowson amp is flat till 10hz and slops below that.
That was solved a few versions of dirac ago, no issue now. Full response to 1Hz here.
Thank You for the review. I ordered a row of Valencia Tuscany just recently. These will be one of my next upgrades. Would the time alignment of these work if I connected the amplifer to one of the free outputs on my minidsp? That seems like it would be an easy way to blend them with subs.
Yep! That gives you the ability to add delay
i just order one of these had email them thanks for the tips ima compare it to big buttkicker lfe i had problem trying mount that thing these crowson look so easy to hook up be done with lol
It doesn't get any simpler :)
So a year later how do they compare?
Hi Great video. Are you running the Crowson of your nx3000?
I was but upgraded to a nx6000 and doubled the crowsons
@@COGuyStuff
I was sold on the buttkicker no I’m leaning more towards the crowson’s. Are they a significant upgrade from the buttkicker’s.
Oh 100% it's night and day. No more peaky output, no more fall off below resonance, no more bottoming out and clanking or having to find the perfect eq and max output. They work better ALL around. They blend MUCH more seamlessly in to your subs. Worth every penny. I'm glad I did so many comparisons and upgrades along the way but I spent twice as much over the years doing so.
@@COGuyStuff
I have 2 rows of three theatre seats. I was planning to put each row on a platform and have two crowson under each row. Do you think they’d be sufficient or I would need to add a third?
You need at least one per seat. I use two.
How did you time align the Crowsons with your other speakers and subs?
Here’s everything you need to know. This guy has been putting all our info in one guide for years docs.google.com/document/d/1_WP-oGOIl6YvtnofxO3Z00BgGdELiM2y/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=113645576429475849506&rtpof=true&sd=true
@@COGuyStuff Thanks. I have that on hand but it does not really explain how to go about time aligning them as a process i.e. does one turn off audy and then use the farthest sub with no delays to align to crowsons and then use that delay to adjust all other subs and speakers? etc
What butt kickers were you using? The lfe?
Lfe and mini lfe
Great informative video.
I was about to purchase 2 buttkicker LFEs until I came across this video, now I'm definitely going for the Crowson Bass Actuators.
So I have the Samsung S95B TV and the Samsung hw-q990b soundbar, I'm going to need an HDMI extractor to dit inbetween the tv's eARC port via HDMI cable and the soundbar's eARC port via HDMI cable.
This extracts the digital signal and converts it into an analogue signal that goes into the Crowson amplifier.
Can someone please confirm if the Crowson amplifier supports/allows Dolby Atmos and 4K @120hz?
As this is the only way I can have it setup with my tv and soundbar, I really don't want to lose Dolby Atmos or 4K @120hz.
Cheers!
First, an amp takes audio only input, analog. The crowson amp takes RCA for example - nothing to do with HDMI or video specs. If your extractor has RCA audio out, it can connect.
Second, you won't get a great experience with a soundbar setup, that's not at all what this type of thing is meant to work with. You have no way to correct the delay to the rest of the system, it will always be out of sync. If you get a proper receiver/processor with a dedicated sub out and room correction, you can use transducers properly.
So you can do it now, but just bear in mind you'll always be leaving a lot of performance on the table.
@CO Guy Stuff Thanks! There's no subwoofer out analogue, just a HDMI eARC port and a optical port, hence the need for the HDMI Extractor, (converts the digital signal to analogue) which does have an RCA analogue out which would go into the Crowson amplifier.
So now I just need a way to correct the delay to the rest of the system.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Cheers
As I said, you can't. It takes a processor, controlling all outputs.
@@COGuyStuff ok thanks. I'm gutted that I can't add something to my setup to correct any delay.
I assume it's the same delay issue with the ButtKicker LFE system?
Any transducer setup
I know these best my 4 pro's but 1k per seat ex amp is pretty steep 😬 🙂
You’re not wrong
I'm using crowsons as well but 1 on each seat corner. I have the Hudson isolation feet from Amazon that help with the jiggle. Have you read about not putting them directly on metal since they are like magnets? I think the guys at crowson said it's ok though. Mine are under the wooden arm rests of my theater seats that have the metal bracing that extends across the bottom for support.
I also am using the Behringer 3000 but not bridged. You'll love ezbeq for the crowsons. Aron has said it is like fuel for them. I do wish dirac didn't reduce the sub 10hz content. Maybe one day we will get the ability to not eq a channel.
Dirac said they are working on an output for us. No issue with metal. Yep I was testing with ezBEQ as usual :)
@@COGuyStuff Yeah, I was thinking of waiting for their (Dirac) implementation before I took the plunge, as I have one spare sub output on my HTP-1.
That might be a very long wait. And it's not worth putting anything off for at all
I would agree about not installing these Crowson's under metal (Chair Frame). After speaking with Randolph last year at Crowson and telling him the chair frame was sitting on the crowson and its magnet stuck directly to it. He mentioned this is not what you want to do. Try placing a small sheet of wood a quarter inch or so in thickness to break the magnetic connection between the metal and the Crowson. I damaged a Crowson from setting the metal frame on it. These are expensive to repair and to ship. Since then I've installed the wood on top of the Crowson and have had no trouble since Have fun.
I’ve emailed him to ask about my install we’ll see.
“I get a lot of effect in my butt.”
- CO Guy Stuff
Giggity
@@COGuyStuff
😂 So how do you feel about them now that you’ve had them a year? Do you think the cost difference over the Buttkickers is justifiable? Is the sense of realism improved with the Crowson’s?
I added 4 more if that answers your question lol
@@COGuyStuff I knew I should have ponied up for the Crowsons. I got the Clark Synthesis transducer (Gold). It’s really nice and I’m happy with it, but want a bit more. Was thinking of adding a second but then started to look at the Crowson’s again. I think I might have to do it this year.
As soon as you do, you'll just wish you had done it sooner.
Crowson's are a good step up from butt kickers but the hoverboss is a totally different experience and only cost a few hundred dollars if DYI is an option. Hope you get to experience a setup sometime.
Only if I get to build in a dedicated room
I would recommend you keep your butt-kickers along with the Crowson's both units will bring something special to the table and highly recommended. I've gone with the BOSS lowriser long ago with Buttkickers and Crowson installed. Each device brings something very special to the table. Also not a dedicated HT space. Why wait. Have Fun
Because it’s our living room. No way I’m making a platform in here.
Always enjoy watching the new HT upgrade videos 😎
Here’s a question for both of you… how much energy do the Crowsons or Hover Boss transfer into a typical suspended wood floorboard floor? Logically as everything has an equal and opposite reaction I’m guessing the Crowsons lifting a heavy couch against the floor will put an almost equal amount of vibration into the floor? (Minus it’s slight rubber backing).
Butt kickers on a well isolated sofa/couch would maybe transfer less into the floor in my mind? 🤔
@@pauledwards8721 I am on concrete so i cant really help with your questions but you cant beat physics. I would say the butt kickers would be the best option if you dont want direct coupling to the floor.
love it but too way over my budget
They are sure VERY proud of them, that's for sure :(