Division in the Hunting Community: Can We Unite?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Division in the Hunting Community: Can We Unite?
We will always have different opinions, but is there a way for the hunting community to identify a few issues we agree on and build a foundation from there? Set aside differences to find a common thread and stand on common ground...Today we are tackling this challenging topic in what we believe is a very respectable conversation in attempt to unite, not divide hunters. #elkshape
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I am a hunter and content consumer, but big picture here...... Matt is right on almost every front.
Exactly!
He really is
@@jacoblogsdon2850 agreed 100 percent
As a firefighter in Atlanta, I used to be able to get all the land I wanted to hunt in the city, back in the late 90s early 2000s. Now that some RUclipsrs have made that famous, it’s getting almost impossible to find a spot. Those boys were still in elementary school when I was doing this, so yeah, I’m a little bit mad at the situation. Social media has ruined that part of my hunting.
That is exactly the stuff Matt/hunt quietly speaks out against. Myself and friends have experienced the same here in Missouri because of THP…. Dan missed the mark on several points in this episode.
Back in the 90s my dad drew the gila ever 2-3 years. Now it’s 2-4%
Everybody has the right to hunt don’t be lazy and just be better than them it’s just excuses
A part of you secretly wants that advocation for it to the public,
You have a RUclips account, you have a picture of yourself glassing on a ridge to give that “I get out there bro” effect. You try to use your I was doing this while you were in elementary as an argument that you should have all of the opportunity over someone else.
I too have been a generational hunter over 5 generations including indigenous Cree Alberta.
If my go to spot was that for 17 years. I’d be suggesting you’ve limited yourself to one area. That’s a you issue, not them.
Yep social media pretty much ruins everything when it comes to hunting.
I disagree that a lot of hunters would love to have the chance to hunt a farm raised ranch elk. That’s killing not hunting. The journey is just as if not more important than the harvesting of an animal
@@nathanmccutchen5272 i think there are a fairly sizeable portion of hunters that would gladly hunt ranch raised elk. Its not that they wont or dont want to do a full on guided elk hunt but with the cost of all things considered its generaly much cheaper for me to go to a ranch and "hunt" an elk vs hiring a guide and putting in a week or more worth of effort to harvest a wild bull/cow.
Id love to go hunt elk in wyoming, montana, colorado, arizona ect but i and many other hunters cant afford that ( i cant afford a ranch hunt either but oh well lol). Thats not even to mention the many hunters who are disabled, or otherwise not capable of the journey.
Plus not all game ranches are 200 acre butcher shops, there are some high quality game ranches that have reasonably fair chase opportunities.
Amen. Well said
@@nathanmccutchen5272 Is “a lot” a raw figure or a proportion of hunters? I agree with the other commenter that I think a lot of people who hunt would gladly shoot a farm-raised animal. Is that a significant proportion of the total number of hunters? We’ll never know.
Joe Rogan saying "Just find another trailhead" is like Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake". I'm all for getting more people into hunting (and appreciate the challenge), but this really showed how little he actually knows about public land hunting.
This topic goes deep and can be summarized with one word (RESPECT) the animals and the hate disappears.
So much to unpack here about Rinella's comment(s). Some very true.
Content = killing, killing = content.
Very true statement. Influencers need only look at their interactions/likes/comments etc. Which of your content garners the most attention from your followers? A hunt, video from the shop, or maybe one from the range? Which of those 3 maybe went "viral?"
Now considering that, an reasonable person who produces content *for a living* is going to consider what their followers "like."
Also, manufacturers/companies want to push their product(s), and they the most bang for their buck. That most likely is going to involve an influencer who puts together multiple hunts annually, and/or includes others hunts as well on his platform(s).
Not saying taking given, legal, opportunities here is wrong per say, but there's some things Influencers need to look at, recognize, and really evaluate if a truly honest conversation is to be had BY ALL.
For years, people have been saying, "social media kills everything good." I guess influencers can ask themselves, if I was unable to document/produce this hunt, or than with pen & paper, would I buy these additional 3-4 tags?
I think that would weed a lot of guys out.
What about film permits from USFS to make the films pushing products
The monetization of hunting and social media content IS the issue. Clicks, likes and follower numbers has ruined it. It’s gross.
That’s what ruined hunting? Not new suburbs destroying millions of acres of forest every year?
@@genericyoutubeuser1700 I agree with you
@@North_to_south_outdoors Genuine question. How does it ruin it?
Matt needs to get after the RUclipsrs on buying up all the T.A.C passes. I’m convinced Big sky is invite only
Hey Dan,
I’m not sure if you read all of these comments or will even remember me. I just stumbled onto your channel a few weeks ago and you talking about hoping you inspired people to get into hunting resonated with me.
I was one of those people at your CrossFit gym in 2011 before I left for the Air Force at the end on 2012. I never hunted growing up and meeting/getting to know you at the gym really inspired me to want to get into hunting. I got my wife, a city girl from Southern California, into hunting and we have a daughter now who will grow up hunting. We’re station in Alaska and have harvested a caribou and two moose now.
I just wanted to say thank you for inspiring me and the next generation of hunters in my family. If you’re even up in the Anchorage area, I’d love to see you again and grab a beer.
- Collin
There is a massive disconnect happening here. The hunting community is so diverse, uniting it is not possible. It is a feel good conversation, but it is unrealistic. Why? People have different motivations for hunting and in many cases those are not compatible. There are always exceptions, but......
Even if a person started hunting out of family tradition or just a personal passion for it, once that person took their first $1 for hunting/gear, they are now a professional hunter and their motivation for hunting is forever changed as long as they continue to make money. If you make money to hunt or be part of the hunting industry you will approach the reasons behind why you hunt and how you hunt differently than if you are not a professional hunter. It is that simple. Once money is involved, everything changes.
Professional hunting/hunters and the average hunter are always going to have compatibility issues because they are hunting for different reasons. They may also be hunting for some of the same reasons, but once money is in the equation, they are also hunting for very different reasons as well. Let's just be honest.
This is a huge disconnect and many (not all) of the professional hunters have no clue how offensive they are to the non-professional hunters. Joe Rogan - his comments about the trailhead are ultra offensive to the average hunter. He has no clue how offensive those comments are - the disconnect between pro hunters and average hunters grows. There are multiple examples of pro hunters that offend average hunters and have no clue how out of touch they are - I would suggest those pro hunters don't care about the average hunters.
I appreciate this podcast where we have some professional hunters talking that at least are very aware of the problem that exists.
I understand Matt Rinella's point tho. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, because i do feel like a show like Meateater has done way more good than bad, even if they are selling products. Steven Rinealla has done wonders to bring a positive light back to hunting and I am grateful for that. There was a time where being a provider was looked at as being a great thing, and guys like Steve and Cam have shown a lot of young men that there is real virtue in that. I am not sure if that was your goal but you have done that too, Dan. Staying in a shape to hunt in order to provide for your family. Showcasing that is a good thing.
Perfect example of different sides coming together is Josh's joint interview with Ranch Fairy. Leaders of their own sides of the hunting industry having fun together and sharing their ideas while respecting the way the other side operates.
Woulda been epic to have Tim on this “LETS UNITE PODCAST” things were a bit better when it was you & Tim . Very sad as a viewer to watch a let’s Unite podcast without Tim & Dan uniting 😢
💯 💯
Agree
It's way easier to tell other people to do something versus doing that thing yourself.
Facts
Having Tim on the channel for a few years was great! Saw him at the archery range a few weeks ago, we chat every time we see each other. Played pickle-ball with him this summer. Wanna know why? It's called mutual respect. Whatever your perception is... probably way off base. -DS
Personally I'd like to see the small percentage of hunters have a serious conversation on ethical hunting & game management. We've all seen the trophy hunters who could care less about filling the freezer they just want clout & wall hangers or the guy who shoots every critter that moves even if they're low percentage shots.
I’m not sure that telling Josh what your interpretation of what Matt Rinella is saying with the “hunt quietly” movement when Josh hasn’t heard it directly and then forms his own idea based on what he was told is the BEST conversation. This is effectively a game of “telephone” where you’re refuting a straw man argument that isn’t necessarily what Matt is saying.
Don’t be scared… invite Matt on your podcast and do an interview. Directly refute the areas where you think he’s wrong and allow him to do the same with your positions.
As far as Rogan goes… he can hunt wherever he wants and pay for whatever access he can afford. Where he went wrong (IMO) is his commenting “… Dumb f***, go to another trail head!” While it IS always an option… what if ALL of the trailheads in the unit you’ve drawn are all full of hunters and/or your unit is not highly populated with elk (& certainly not filled with elk like a big hunk of 80,000 private acres in Utah).
I try not to comment in such an abrasive fashion on things that I know little to nothing about.
Have the conversation with Matt & invite this whole crew.
I agree, I would like to see that conversation as well. Not just a pissing match but a legitimate discussion. Matt is literally the ONLY person openly talking about the biggest issues hunters are facing right now and the causes behind these issues. Is it just a coincidence that he is also the ONLY one who is not making any money from hunting? I don't think so. A lot of people don't want to hear it because all the hunting industry marketing dollars are spent pushing a completely different narrative that only benefits the growth of the industry. I personally believe the majority of the people involved in the hunting industry legitimately care and are probably "salt of the earth" type people but what I am really interested in is what is actually happening and real consequences. The points Matt brings up are legitimate and honestly the most pressing and important topics that should be discussed right now.
HUNTR podcast had a good interview with Matt. Check it out. Hes got some valid points. Hunting is gonna turn into a rich mans sport and eventually will be privatized everywhere. Good conversations to have though boys. Keep it up.
I think we are already starting to see that with the costs of bows, sights, rests, and everything going way up the last 5 years. The wealthy bored guys took up bowhunting and are driving the cost up with their deep pockets and disposable income. The average Joe is getting left behind and priced out of the market. Then we get to listen to guys with means that don't pay for their bows and gear tell us all we need to try harder...cool
Matt is a complete hypocrite. How many episodes of Meateater has be been on? And I’m sure he didn’t go on the show and use his lamas for free. Now he’s all holier than though and against everything he promoted by being on the show multiple years and seasons.
@rustyshackleford7285 yes, it's crazy some people can do things and then look around and see what's happening and change their mind.
@@josephr1198Changing your mind is understandable. Demonizing and attacking people for doing the same thing you did however is not.
@@rustyshackleford7285 how quickly you've changed your tune.
I agree man. Pretty much every hunting group I am part of on social media...hunters are whining about other hunters. Cell cams are unethical, crossbows are cheating, private land hunters are deer farmers...the list goes on and on. It's wild. Just worry about your own hunt. You do you. Quit worrying what other people are doing. Just be happy that the person using a cell cam and a crossbow actually chooses to hunt, and not walk around the streets with a PETA sign. We gotta unite now or our way of life is doomed.
Yes. I was thinking the same thing. All I ever hear about is how bow hunters hurt deer. Crazy thing is rifle hunters talk amongst themselves about what caliber they don’t like because it injures deer. It’s sad and I wish every could get along. It’s like they always look for something negative to say. They never give support and condemn everyone on there. I hope it will change soon because we need to worry more about the people that are trying to stop hunting instead of fighting each other.
Are way of life is not doomed, the reason there is so much infighting now is because there are so many of us. Hunting land is becoming more and more scarce tags are harder to get because there's less animals and more hunters. Hunting is competitive it's why there's more and more problems and more hunters creates more problems, and less opportunities. But don't let ppl fool you hunting numbers are as healthy as ever
Hunters are mostly Alpha males ,same thing with the so called Patriot community but unlike the wolf pack, we work against each other instead of coming together and working together, lifting our community's up ,it might be the reason why our country can't unite and wright the ship
Why would someone hunting with a bow on public land be happy when the management areas get over run with cross bow hunters during archery season? I hunt in Florida so this isn’t an issue but it’s a very real issue in a lot of states.
Best take in this entire page of replies. I 100% agree
Something that I think about bringing everyone together is that everyone that I watch to better myself for hunting from traditional archery to long range rifle is that nobody does more than one I watch someone for traditional archery, someone for compound archery, someone for long range. So having one guy that posts about everything it would help to bring a lot of together.
Even if we triple the current number of 4% of the population to a 12% hunting population, we still don't have enough numbers to sway any vote.
We don't have the available resources to add new hunters. IMO If we are "losing" hunters and we don't have enough current access for our current population, how are we supposed to add new hunters. Where are they going to go? These are legitimate questions that I have.
I think this conversation could have been better by having guests with opposing views to discuss these topics. I respect both Dan and Cam's message on work ethic and discipline. I hope yall do more of this style of podcast.
The idea that there isn’t enough resources to sustain new hunting numbers is very regional. In NY state, we have to spent tax dollars to cull the deer population down every year, and that’s with the grow we have seen here over the last 5 years. But if we can hit 12%, think of how many people will know hunters can will vote to support people they know. Right now hunting is so out of sight of the masses it’s hard not to see why the laws are so anti-hunting.
These are points Matt Rinella brings up. We already have overcrowding, limited resources, and ever since RUclips and Instagram blew up and regions and units were shared, it's harder to draw tags. We now wait seven plus years to draw tags where just ten years ago it only took one or two.
I always tell people the same thing. We're so far outnumbered. The way I try to make a difference is to talk to friends, family, coworkers who don't hunt. They have all supported me and my right to hunt and would vote with me. Discussions and changing minds is what will help us. I'd like to see Matt Rinella be invited on Elkshape for a discussion. Or the guys from Mountain Pursuit. Unfortunately for the RUclips and Instagram sensations, I tend to lean with "Hunt quietly."
I don't understand why Rogan and Hanes can't public land. Don't wrap your truck with your name and brand. Don't post pics of your vehicles on social media. Don't announce your leaving for a trip. If Cam woke up and got in a truck nobody knows he had and left on a hunt to the mountains how would anyone know? Maybe a guy or two would run into him at the trailhead or back in a basin. Silly excuses to me.
So there you are talking uniting hunters then talk Sh*t about one of the greatest bow hunters around not one of you jer*s could keep up with him . Forget your uniting hunting crusade because you don’t practice what you preach . Watch Cams Show or Samoog outdoors or Brian Calls Gritty now that’s hunting oh and by the way I’m unsubscribing.
Is the answer more land or fewer hunters? You’ll definitely lose hunters if you try to gatekeep who should be allowed to hunt.
Matt Rinnella never wrote an article on Dan, someone else did and Hunt Quietly just talked about it. Which is standard outdoor media procedure.
Great discussion. Love to hear about a positive vision for the hunt community, As a Native American hunter, I've always avoided getting involved with hunt scene in dominant society because of the toxic and arrogant attitudes I see littered throughout. And for that reason I'm glad my hunting content on IG has stayed under the radar of the hunt community. I'm a meat hunter for sustainability, not trophy, and follow Native traditions passed down from Dad. A lot of non-hunters see and comment therefore I try and be a good ambassador to hunting. Over the years I've received lots of positive comments from vegans and city slickers alike and to me that's a win because they are the types who may side with us when it comes to voting for policy change. Keep inspiring Dan!
Sold all my archery equipment 5 yrs.ago when I moved because I was aging and my 13 yr old son took no interest in hunting. Fast forward 5 yrs and my son got into shooting and ask me to teach him to hunt. Which I did but he had to buy his equipment because I just didn't have the money to buy his. He invested and I showed him how to scout and we found spots on public land in south carolina, he ended up killing a buck with his rifle and now he to my joy is hooked. So much so he bought a leftover mathews bow and I am teaching him archery . He may be on his own tho,I am able so far to come up with funds to buy archery equipment. Price has just become unattainable for some of us.
Loved the dad and hunting talk. I have 20 rounds of 30-06 with my dads ashes in the bullets and got my moose with 2 of those rounds and 1 nice buck, and it felt like he was a part of both those hunts He always wanted to do a moose hunt, but we never got a permit in the lottery to go. I finally got one, but dad had passed away for around 5 years by that time. So, thanks for bringing that up. It's a great way to build on a hunting community.
Great talk about your dads and hunting traditions.
You guys brought it home, most of us grew up going hunting with our dads. I lost my dad a little over a year ago. We have a meat cooler, and family and friends bring there animals. My dad loved helping them cut up there animals. This year when our family and friends brought deer and elk it made me feel closer to him because he loved it. He called the cooler his office. Keep up the good work guys!
Great Podcast Dan and Josh. Keep God first in all you do. I was very lucky to Hunt and film with Cam H. Nate S The Eastmans Fitzgeralds Rodger R Mark & Terry Drury Lisa E Bow R. It was a blessing Love to come out and visit with you guys Gods Blessing
I think it would be wise for you to email Matt and get on the podcast... I'm sure he would be game
Love this conversation. Everyone should come together who is a hunter. Doesn't matter what equipment you use. Be proficient in your weapons so that your harvest is ethical. Public land or private, it does not matter. Same team!
Amount of animals and ability to hunt is always going to be the problem, hunting is getting more and more competitive because there's less and less of both of these things. Thats where all the issues lie.
I agree with 75% of what Matt stands for. Is he radical in some ways? Sure. But he has forces people to look at how they conduct themselves and ask tough questions. He is ultimately concerned with the future of NON PAY TO PLAY and I align completely. I’m an unashamed supporter of the Hunt Quietly movement because it must be talk about and it is critical to the future of good hunting in the United States.
Sure, there is tribal division inside the hunting community but the division of most concern is INARGUABLY the division between the interests of the hunting INDUSTRY vs the interests of the hunting COMMUNITY. This is the division that is never directly addressed by hunting influencers. With the exception of Matt Rinella, every single hunting influencer or individual who currently has a "voice" is tied to the interests hunting industry in one way or another and is required to push the idea that we need more hunters and that those hunters should use the very best gear in order to save hunting... The narrative is that more hunters = more advocates, more voters, more people buying tags etc. Its not a conspiracy, the hunting industry just needs to grow every year, that is just how business works. That is why it is uncommon to see hunting influencers supporting traditional hunting equipment and methods. More hunters with more advanced gear is not a recipe for preserving our hunting heritage. In western states it is easy to see the negative affect that this agenda is having on hunting. I like the idea of finding common ground and I hope that a mainstream hunting influencers really start looking at the effects of putting the interests of growing the hunting industry over genuinely preserving our hunting heritage. As of right now hunters should really take a look at what Mat Rinella trying to explain to the hunting community because the agenda coming from the "Hunt Quietly" group is the ONLY agenda that is 100% for hunters and not tied to the hunting industry in any way.
Very well said
Matt Rinella’s message is getting traction and that’s a good thing. If you influencers weren’t worried, you wouldn’t talk about it. RRR can take a hike.
To quote yourself, “cope.”
Man, loved this one! I have been trying to spread my love of hunting to my family and friends. And I hope they can spread their love down the younger generations as well.
Constructive: Where did the case study comment go? Should we leave it up to understand more?
I am in my mid thirties and am lucky enough to still be able to hunt with the previous generation. Every season is filled with stories talking about how they called up friends, family, and neighbors to help them pack out whatever elk they shot in an absolute black hole of a place, or how they stumbled into a stranger packing an elk out and stopped their hunt to help out... Then the conversation inevitably turns to the time some jerk ran out and put a tag on their elk before they had a chance to get there (stealing someone else's kill).
As horrifying as that is, what this really demonstrates to me is how much hunting has changed from a community lifestyle to a "screw you, I'm going to get mine" mindset.
My dad didn't hunt, so I went on my first big game trip with my then boyfriend, now husband. And my mentors have been friends, uncles, my Father-in-law, family friends, friends of family friends, and each one of them has freely given advice and encouragement. Every one of them has been happy to take me to their favorite spot, or help me dissect a situation where I made a mistake to help me become a better hunter. And I think we all owe it to ourselves and the others around us to perpetuate a positive community where each person holds themselves to a high standard.
I want what they had, the security that another hunter they encounter is an ally rather than an enemy. And the only way to do that is to have these tough conversations and to be a better steward of this sport in the same way that they were. Strive to be like your mentor. And if your mentor sucked as a community member, strive to be better.
I grew up not hunting at all. And over my lifetime (I’m now 40) have gone hunting three times ever. But I shot my first deer this year. And the same buddy who took me on my successful hunt gave me an entry level bow. I’m now hooked. I’m looking forward to next season where I’m going to go bow hunting for the first time. I didn’t know anyone in the archery community just two months ago. But I have been obsessed with learning. And have been absorbing everything from you guys as much as I can. You guys do a great deed for the community, never stop. I can say I’m going to be a product of your influence. Thank you.
Thank you for complaining about hunters complaining about hunters and throwing fellow hunters under the bus we all feel a strong sense unity now.
For real lol
Dan, who introduced you to hunting? At what age? And what do you value the most from that endeavor? This is a big piece of the puzzle regarding the current climate within the outdoor world
I have my Grandfather's knife, 22-250 and Stanley canteen. I also have his original black powder horn. These are some of my most cherished items. I say a prayer every year on opening day, Thanking GOD for him and and what he taught me. My two daughters just took their hunter education course this month and my youngest(10) will be harvesting her first deer this year with a crossbow.
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL!!!
I watched matts talk about hunt quietly and i agree with most all the points on hunting quietly.
Great talk. I run into hunters on public land every year and feel like the last few years, more hunters are sharing your mindset on uniting and being on the same team to help other hunters out. As opposed to the typical "what are you doing here huntin' my spot?!" like I use to get every year. I think your conversations such as this are getting to the right people and the message is getting out there, so keep doing what you all are doing.
And for those who get upset when you get to a trailhead and its packed, walked a mile in and you will get away from 95% of hunters, never fails.
I’ve noticed the same thing. It seems to be the younger generation that is much more willing to work with other hunters to share public space, as opposed to claiming an area. I feel the awareness that social media has brought to public land opportunities has made it much busier but hunters seem to be much more willing to share an area
I have been a big fan of both podium, archer and elk shaped, but watching this podcast kind of lets me know where y’all have your mindset. Hunting for you is a paid to play operation and the way you see it if you have the money then you can do what you want but for the average Joe look like myself, whose family for generations has lived off the land and now it is become almost impossible to feed your family the entire year, without going to the store, and living in a state, like Kansas, who continuously molds, and builds their regulations to cater to the out-of-state hunters while making it more difficult for their own residence, just just goes to show what’s wrong with the hunting community. In general I will agree. Most of it comes down to mismanagement by fishing game department, but it’s all bought and paid for by people like you who’s gonna afford to pay the prices which pushes out those who may be residence and should have first access to tag available
This was a hard podcast to have. Sadly, the conversation isn't openly talked about. Except behind closed doors. Good on you guys for hopefully getting the ball rolling. Awesome, as always. Keep up the good work, gentlemen
Dude this was awesome! We all hunt differently than each other, I don’t even elk hunt but hope to one day. I love how yall try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and respect other people regardless of different opinions. This needs to affect more than just the hunting community.
This is an issue in many different hobbies and past times in the US right now. There are pros and cons to it but it’s just the world we live in. On one side of the coin it’s great to have hunting to have profitable businesses involved because that leads to innovation of products which everyone benefits from, it also leads to more awareness which everyone benefits from and more. The flip side is that all that profitably definitely creates a division that allows perks for certain people. I’m a public land hunter and can’t afford to lease land and our public land is pressured heavily. But I also see that I have an advantage over other public land hunters because I have a good job and I can afford to take time off to hunt.
The point I’m making is that there will always be someone with an advantage and you have to find your own little comfort zone. Over all the commercialization of hunting is a net positive.
It Is a logical fallacy that more hunters helps hunters or hunting.
It is also a logical fallacy that more hunters leads to more opportunity (just look at draw odds)
And people like Rogan, who has never hunted, whining about people pointing these things out is laughable. I listened to his and Cams podcast (shame on Cam for sitting there and not defending his fellow hunters) and all they did was the same things he whined about others doing.
I've been a fan of Joe for years but people seem to gloss over the fact that he's only been hunting a few years after Cam and Dudley turned him on to it. He's never done public or DIY its always been hosted stuff and private with guides and premium gear. Am I jealous, hell yes I am. But...sometimes he talks out of his ass. But we all do.
Great conversation guys. The division among the hunting community, gun community and archery has always boggled my mind. We are so small. We won't survive divided.
Dang guys, you hit the nail on the head. Unify and share your passion because it’s infectious.
Love that you are addressing a long time problem amongst the hunting community. Unfortunately I don’t think the division will ever go away. Top four main problems: ego, greed, jealousy, and laziness, IMO. Keep spreading the positive message, and driving the message in the right direction.
Cam Hanes is the reason i bow hunt now. I grew up in NY never hunted. No archery experience. I thought hunters drank beer and sat in a stand with a bud light. It was HUSH and cam RUclips channel that made me see it as a sport for extreme athletes. Protect provide and inspire. Don’t put any energy into what your enemies see.
The only thing these guys are united over is to sell you something.
I'm still a new archery and bow hunting. From my observation everything in the industry is revolved around selling equipment.
I met an older guy while out elk hunting last year and he was so full of insight. My advice listen to those that have real world experience.No product is going to make you a better hunter. Getting out in the woods and observing the signs in nature is time spent much better then any of these pod casts.
I commented over a year ago to Seek One (RUclipsrs) who posted a pic on RUclips of about 10 dead does in the back of a trailer that looked really bad for us hunters. It was a bad decision to post that pic!!
Trying to increase the popularity of the sport while also acknowledging how much less places there is to hunt is crazy
We will all have our own opinions on the subject, but as a whole, I agree with what your message was on this.
Great conversation, needs to be had more often. I remember when Jim Zumbo from outdoor life said you shouldn’t hunt with AR’s. His career ended that day because the mentality was we’re all hunters even if we don’t do it the same! Afterwards I remember him being invited on other shows to be”educated” on the efficacy of hunting with AR’s in an attempt to bring him back in the fold. Ya, the trail heads are busy but when I see it I just say to my self “ I just got too work harder, think smarter, out hunt them! If ya want it bad enough go get it, it’s out there, only thing holding you back is your own pessimism!
Excellent comment.
@@Bhfltd12345 I absolutely remember when Zumbo got fired
I know this is a divisive comment on a video about coming together, but it’s hard for me to Listen to Matt Rinella. I watched him talk about this crap on another podcast and he sounded like a whiny baby. “I was hunting first!” He didn’t want to bring new hunters in because there are too many for the resources. He was ragging the most on The Hunting Public and just saying things that just straight up weren’t true.
Im a small RUclipsr and the comments I get lately have been extremely negative from other hunters. I still get lots of love and support and positive comments but man, some of the people out there are ruthless.
You will never stop the internal sniping. Social media has made this disease front and center. Everyone wants to tell everyone else what and how to do something. The only way to have these disagreement discussions is in private and when you’re attacked, don’t give them the time of day. Good to have these discussions on the forum as reminders. Stay positive and don’t make public posts personally attacking those you disagree with.
Love conversation and I agree 100% we need to come together. It really hits home thinking about my dad and I hunting since i was 12. He paved the way for me and i am passing that along to my boys. I enjoy my boys shooting a deer more than me shooting one. Hope you have a great new year!
33:07 One of the best moments of this cat. Spot on. Great point Dan
I honestly thought this was probably going to be the last time I watched and listened to you guys
I was wrong. It's really about your true passion for hunting and it's not for everyone but for some it's that connection and those precious memories with nature and past Love ones. 😢
I started taking my son to the woods with me since age 3. Not ideal carrying ground blind, blanket, big buddy heater, etc. But I wouldn't change anything. Fast forward, he's 17 now and is a hunting fool with bow and gun. He talks to his friends constantly about how fun hunting is. We have invited his friends over to try shooting bow with us. I've been shooting since I was 9 and worked as a bow tech for 10 years in the 90's and have a bow or two 😉. I am happy to say that we have taught 4 kids this year to shoot bows and they all hunted the 2023 season. I sold 2 of them bows and supplied another that couldn't afford it for bow season. I have put out at the schools that any kid that wants to learn to shoot, to contact me. I have 2 Genesis bows that I set up for this purpose. I can't tell you how good it feels to see a young person drop by with the deer they harvested that you trained 6 mos ago.
From an Aussie military veteran who use to work in the adaptive sports industry full of egos and what we call tall poppy syndrome the only way to solve it is create a sense of belonging or tribe identity within your culture. It worked for a while here in my program then it got taken over. It’s hard work to maintain however I had to keep reminding myself it’s about others not me I wanted to create an environment where the toxicity was left aside.
On a side note I visit USA twice a year and happy to provide some volunteer help as I’m just getting into this archery thingo I’ll do anything even be the water boy and I don’t have an ego 😂
Cheers mates
Nothing hates predators more than predators! We are predators. Wolf packs battle each other. Etc. We’re no different. I remember when the first compound bows came out. It can only be defined as a war! Friendships were ruined and even families were broken. It was an ugly time in bow hunting history.
I’ve learned being happy for others in their success has made me a happier person. I still can’t stand the internet super hunters but I try not to pay them any kind. As far as being an influencer you all have a great platform to show conservation and habitat rehabilitation at work. Keep doing you and keep up the great work!
These guys are ‘it’s capitalism’ but then they contradict themselves by wanting to regulate/manage the tags. If your position is capitalism let the free markets take care of tag supply/demand.
RUclips and social media has definitely hurt hunting. Everyone is looking for the picture. It has brought in the wrong community. I'm 46 now and started hunting with my grandfather when I was a child. In my opinion hunting was to get in touch with nature and forget about work and the stresses of life. Now it's a bunch of hunters with camera crews.
Honest. Transparent. Truth. Nobody else does it like you guys.
Josh’s rant from 25:50-26:55 is a sound bite that all hunters need to hear
What people have forgotten is that its ok to disagree. We all have a common interest but some have different views on how to go about said interest. I live in western Kentucky and bow hunt white tail on public land so I can't speak on the tag issue you guys have but I do know what it's like to have public land fill up quick and yes sometimes it a pain but at the end of the day we should all be grateful for opportunities we have. Effort doesn't always mean success it's hunting not killing
I agree with Josh on the fact that it would be extremely difficult/impossible to unite all hunters across the board. You'd literally be asking them to drop their strong opinions and borderline change who they are in order to stop the bickering amongst us on social media
Right. Hunters will even argue that you’re not a real hunter if you don’t do (insert hard stuff here) 🙄
The last part of this podcast really hit home..my father wasn't into hunting so I didn't get into it until the age of 23(now 54) with my friend..who over time became my best friend, hunting mentor and at times a father figure..we lost him 3 months ago to pancreatic cancer..I feel LOST but never more driven to getit DONE this coming season..I'm already devastated that i will not be able to send pics to him or hunt with him..he has given me my greatest passion in life and I'll never be able to repay him 😢
I appreciate this POD cast. I'm a military veteren that spent most of my life overseas and did not get to hunt because of the price. I grew up hunting the same public land in Oklahoma. Truth be told I have only harvested 1 doe in my life. Being in Arizona now, I wish we could all get along and come together.
Completely agree. We need to realize we can learn from each other's disciplines and apply tactics that a bow hunter would use in rifle, or driving tactics in bow hunting just as an example.
I’m sorry, but you guys are talking from a position of being residents of a state that has elk. You’re almost guaranteed to get a tag in your state and probably drive in person to get one in Idaho. It’s hard enough for an out of state hunter to afford to go let alone be able to get a tag with states dropping tags to 10% for non residents. Idaho has dropped the number for non residents. Every state that I know has increased their tags prices immensely. If %30 of the us hunted them there would be no tags and only the very wealthy would be able to hunt. It’s getting to be that way anyway.
People love to eat beef, yet the industry doesn’t brag about how those animals are slaughtered in detail for consumption. Sometimes even what we experience in hunting is not expedient to broadcast. I used to have a T-shirt that read "Happiness is a Large Gut Pile”. It was for select times, with select people in hunting camp - Never in Public
Had the same shirt mine had two buzzards sitting on a power line looking down on a large gut pile the good ol days
Never bash someone that is hunting legally = ethically. I was a compound shooter since 1985. I switched over to a crossbow 2 years ago. I decided to hunt with the most accurate devastating killing tool that I can legally hunt with then. I also hunt with a centerfire rifle and muzzleloader depending on the season. You are either a hunter or a non-hunter or an anti hunter. All I can say is keep the camp OPEN regardless of legal method and location conditions. It is stupid to eat your own when the antis are there to eat all of us. Great topic and conversations!
arent you only allowed to use crossbows during "any legal weapon" hunts? at least in my state they prohibit crossbows during archery season. they are practically rifles at this point
@@Origin_Sphere It depends and varies state to state.
I don’t think Matt did a dissertation on you. Maybe you will retract that allegation? He discussed this episode on his Hunt Quietly podcast recently.
I watch hunting content but I also think Matt is onto something regarding the pressure caused by too many hunters and decreasing land access.
The land situation will only get worse.
I found elk shape 5 years ago recovering from a diverticulitis surgery. They removed 7 inches of my large intestine. Had 2 other surgeries a year after the first one. Took me 3 more years to be able to really workout without issues. It’s because of Dan and cam that I went out to hunt for my first time ever. It was fun and a learning experience I was unsuccessful but that’s okay. I learned a lot. Will definitely be doing it again. And before all that I was listing to Joe talking about archery so he’s another reason why I tried archery. But thanks Dan for all that you do.
Crwm and howl are fighting for hunting, people need to be informed about the issues these groups are battling for us, the more people and groups you can get together with the more people will come keep raising awareness of these situations and more people will wake up to the issues, people need to put their differences aside and unite as hunters, houndsmen,trappers, all need to stand together, and get on the offense instead of playing defense when we get attacked,
Great talk boys! We need this mindset throughout our hunting community!
One thing we can do to change it, is stop supporting bad actors. Recently saw Dan was promoting Beast broadheads, a broadhead designed by a Poacher, who is also solely responsible for a bear hunting season get canceled. Yet somehow the guy and his wife are some of the biggest hunting influencers.
How the industry hasn't shunned them is remarkable, but he fooled everyone by playing the victim.
I get what you’re saying about those two. I personally stoped watching their videos and won’t buy anything with their name on it but at the same time I can’t judge others simply because they try their products. I don’t know the full story about what all went down but I heard what others was saying and you can’t always believe what people say. I know there was some truth in what those two was doing which is why they pleaded guilty in their federal case but here’s the thing. It’s over with. I got into a lot of trouble as a youth in the 90’s. I am nowhere close to that person today and I’m glad most don’t still judge me for my actions back then. Those two paid for their consequences which is what matters. Yes it may not be to our liking but it was handled and is over now. I can’t judge Dan and his channel for supporting those two. Maybe Dan knows more about the truth. Like I said earlier I don’t know all the facts and I’m sure there is more to it than most realize. I still won’t watch their videos or buy their products but that’s me. lol.
@Bowhunterohio I don't disagree with what you're saying.
If Josh and Sarah Bowmar showed remorse it would be different. I haven't seen that, they keep lying about how the course case went saying that the poaching charges were dropped and they pled guilty to conspiracy.
Well the charges were dropped because of the plea deal where they plead guilty to conspiracy to violate the Lacey act. And the Lacey Act just makes it a federal crime to transport game that was taken illegally.
On top of that they went on a few different podcast to explain their story and in that explanation the explained how they williningly gave up certain deer capes and mounts because they were that big.
Which begs the question why shoot it then? Why kill an immature animal if you don't care about it? And if I remember correctly it was a Mule Deer buck, and Mule Deer are on the decline country wide.
@@josephr1198 ya but that’s what most people don’t understand when it comes to the justice system. Ha they may have 6 charges but eventually the person pleas out which gets most of them dropped so yes when he tried to say they was dropped because he wasn’t guilty was a lie. As I said I was in alot of trouble when I was younger and trust me I know how the system works. lol. The day I heard about the charges I stoped following them on RUclips and Instagram. If you recall they got into alot of trouble over their nutrition products because the products didn’t contain what they listed on the labels. There was also a guy that starting making a product for bows and they went to the courts and stoped it trying to say they stole their nose button idea. They are only in this for the money period. You can see the difference when you watch their videos and someone like elk shape or Chris Bee. Even the videos where he goes through the field acting like he finds tons of sheds when in reality he is walking through his own field. He has a deer farm so ha he will find sheds out in the pasture. How about the time he set his truck on fire to get views. How about all the talk about when he gets big deer. So many people say it was a setup and he isn’t actually getting them with a bow. There is no proof with that and it’s only talk so don’t quote me on that one. I can see through their act. I’m surprised others can’t. Some people just don’t care which also surprises me.
Man, the point about the need for higher percentage voting positive and people only worried about their own personal gain was a great point.
I think most folks feel pushed out of hunting because of cost. All the videos of influencers saying you need this or that or you won’t be successful. All the gear shaming that goes on in the hunting industry. No one talks about it ,but yet it’s a major problem for the next hunting generation.
The prices are getting ridiculous. Everything keeps going up except the wages of working people, and then exactly to your point, we have all these influences being gifted gear and equipment from manufacturers telling us we "need" it.
@@scottdavis2133 All hobbies are expensive… I can definitely see from a new hunters perspective that it’s crazy expensive. The products that are being pushed are usually the most expensive. 200 dollar pants , 300+ dollar boots , the list goes on.. Plenty of solid gear choices out there that won’t break the bank. Most folks won’t see them or know about it because the think only what an influencer uses is the only thing that works . Personally I recommend to new hunters to watch the hunting public guys. Definitely more relevant to an average guy.
Honestly RUclipsrs, Influencers are the way these days. It’s the most readily available source for Q and A. I believe that we are talking past something very important that’s how to actually get out and Hunt. Like most people learned from someone while doing it and that’s what it takes. “Killing for Content” I believe it has lot to do with more people have access to to camera/ video equipment these days. Anyways my point is let’s get someone and take them hunting instead of worrying about who’s got more tags
That vent fan drove me bananas
This was refreshing and a extremely important conversation
Social media accessibility and everyone’s ability to freely share has painted an inaccurate picture to the rest of the hunting community. All of us midwesterners want that giant bull and limited tag but few of us understand or have an appreciation for how many years those familiar have been waiting for that chance and put the work in. I have hunted an OTC tag in Utah for 2 straight years in an area where there are “no elk” and seen both elk and mule deer both times and been at full draw two years in a row. I was thrilled and lived in reality and willing to learn and put in the work. The issue is the lazy hunter wanting all the glory without the work. We were raised to hunt differently than those coming up now and some of our new hunters just want it easy. Not all, but some. Social media needs more failed hunts and less of what we see now. On a side note, love Cam but NEVER looked at him as a hunter first. I’ve been inspired by a middle aged man trying to outrun Father Time and stay in the game as long as possible, which is what all of us whether we hunt or not, should aspire to do.
I mean, his brother is one of the top all time hunting shows. He’s just mad.
On the subject of hunter quantity shrinking or growing, it's my understanding that hunter quantity nationwide was declining until recently but the decline was fueled by eastern hunters. I think most western hunters would say that hunter quantity has been growing for at least a decade. Watching Randy Newberg on RUclips is what got me going again after 20+years between big game hunts.
Idea to share with you Dan on where we can start.... where you can start as one that has larger voice then most of us. Reach out to Matt Rinela. See if you can find common ground. See if Matt can recognize you, as well has him, want to solve issues. Maybe it can evolve into a podcast on commonality and positive directions. Imagine if we can get one small common step and build from there. Just an idea.
I agree that people should have more opportunities in the hunting industry. Here’s one example: I called podium archer to see about buying a Mathews bow not realizing that they can’t be shipped but the guy I talked with asked if I had a lease in Kansas and I told him that I was a resident with some private property and really good public that doesn’t get much pressure and we talked a minute and hung up. I got to thinking about the idea of having him come out here if he wanted to so called back and told him if he wanted to come out I can get him on some good property but lodging and meals were on him. My offer stands open for him.
I believe that the “10,000 ft view” of hunting is important to keep in perspective when analyzing “issues” within the hunting community and the opponents of hunting altogether. I honestly respect you and what you do but honestly Matt Rinella’s message resonates because in some way his perspective has more weight. That weight is important to developing the ethos around hunting and right now we need all the help we can get with that job. I think that you and Cam mean different things altogether to the hunting story and ethos, than Matt or Shane Mahoney from Wild Harvest initiative. It’s an apples and oranges situation. You focus on inspiring people to get after it and discover what they are capable of. Empowerment, discipline, and fun. A guy like Shane Mahoney( who you should familiarize yourself with if you are not aware of him) drives the bus on the conservation of hunting. What hunting means from a socio-economic view and tells the story of how hunting maintains, develops and protects the beautiful places and animals that we admire, respect and harvest. Thanks for being respectful and not just shitting on a guy(Matt)that means well. I hope he’d do the same. Like you said, we need to be collaborative and united to protect the traditions of hunting and public land. That being said, I’ll give you some constructive criticism that you have not agreed to recieve ;), spend more time familiarizing yourself with the conservation side of hunting and imagining how a better future for hunting and America might come to be. As a influencer, believe it or not, the information you distribute has more weight so beware of falling into a “1,000 ft view”. See the big picture and continue to become a better versed and passionate steward/ advocate for the things you believe. Thanks for all that you do. I honestly appreciate what you do for hunting.
Just a little bit of data from my experience as a bowhunter, this year there's 11 dudes that I bow hunt with where I live in Colorado, We all put in for elk draw , four choices filled out this year and not one of us drew a tag. Most of us have lived in Colorado for 15 years plus and that's never happened, which forced all of us to hunt OTC and I was the only one that had a kill
Couple things to think about. Washington state is one of the most mismanaged states when it comes to hunting quotas like Josh said. They will literally sell a tag to every resident knowing for well that there are not enough animals to fill all of the tags in many other states, they sell a ton of tags and then shut down hunting after people have paid for those tags and not fill their quota like with Pennsylvania there, and do nothing about it. There needs to be drastic changes in order for hunting to grow and be sustainable long-term.
Pretty sure that Matt and Steve are on speaking terms because he was on the Christmas podcast two years ago and that actually got kind of awkward and heated.
Great conversation between a couple dudes I love to watch.
There is underlying component to the “hunt quietly” movement that you did touch on that needs more context. The algorithm is really is the enemy. Kill content will almost ALWAYS trump woodsmanship content or realistic “boring” content showing hours of nothing, so there is validity to MR’s points. Views create growth, which creates attention to a game species or geographic area, which creates competition for animals or tags that might not have been there before. So as a content creator making a living in that arena, it is difficult at best to not want growth through the most effective algorithm…MFJJ is unique in being the bridge between archery technique/ pro shop knowledge and applying to hunting vs hunting/ kill only content.
💯 % agree , I think sometimes they don't realize when the post on social media it's comes off the wrong way to some hunters ,regardless of whether they mean it or not . We need to unite as hunters no matter social status ,in the end, it's the hunt that matters. Also, not just elk all species for hunters.
Great point Dan about groups like pita and others being well organized I think we make it easier for them by not uniting. But in all fairness, most of us, appreciate the hunting fishing lifestyle are the kind of people that would rather be on our own anyway.😊
I'm 54 years old, I have always dreamed of Elk hunting out West, but had no idea how to start. I didn't have the means of just righting a check and going, but folks like ElkShape, Born and Raised and a few others get me the inspiration that with some work and attitude I can do this and 2 years ago I went on my first over the counter DIY hunt archer elk hunt, and had a blast. Last year my son was not able to go. My family would not let me go alone, so for the first time every I hired and outfitter on public land. That was fun to, in a different way but still fun! There are many ways to enjoy the passion of hunting and it is still hunting. I don't thing there is any one answer to this important topic, but I think the solutions will be found by doing what you are doing now, talking about it and inviting conversations, thank you!
You guys have been knocking it out of the park with the last few podcasts this one was amazing and i can definitely relate!!
Can you expand on the declining number of hunters comments on the video? There's a ton of articles out there about how hunting is in decline (bolstering your point) yet the draw odds for almost every tag in almost every state declines year after year. I've been hunting public land since 2017 and the increase in the amount of pressure is unreal. It's hard to believe that the hunting tradition and hunting industry are in jeopardy in any way when my personal experience in drawing tags and getting away from pressure very much indicate the opposite. In addition to that, I think a very large point was overlooked in this discussion. It was said that "we need to grow the number of hunters in order to keep hunting alive". While that's a valid point, the animals and their habitat need to be put first - not getting more hunters out there. I hate that it's harder to get permission and everything is getting leased up, but it does give these animals a certain amount of refuge from ever increasing amounts of pressure.
More hunters could be an issue when you consider each year there's less and less land to hunt on with the rise of development and the state and fed shutting down access to public lands because of budget issues
The overall numbers of hunters is declining, but I’d bet the number of hunters who are hunting multiple states is drastically increasing. For years I’d dreamed of western hunts, and have only in the last few years been able to make it a reality. There are many others like me. I believe the biggest obstacle for out of state hunting used to be easily finding public areas to hunt. OnX and other mapping apps have removed that obstacle.
Good job guys! We share a lot of the same sentiments and hunting philosophy. Continue to positively promote hunting regardless of style or method (as long as it’s legal). I think it’s okay to be competitive amongst ourselves as long as it’s respectful and we keep the big picture in mind.
Also, MFJJ, please keep up the tech tips, how to’s and reviews! Much appreciated! Lead on gentleman!