The 997 bore scoring issue is exclusively associated with the M96(7) engine that was used in the 996 and the gen 1 997. You have a gen 2 997. It has the MA1 engine, which is entirely distinct from the earlier M96 and M97 engine. Your exhaust soot looks entirely normal. Your start-up sounded normal. Your cold-start gases look fine. You have a fantastic car. Bring the oil temperature up gently when you first start - sensible for any car - then drive it like you stole it. I had the same MA1 engine in the same car, and ran it (hard) for five years. Bore scoring is a non-issue.
That's not exactly true, bore scoring is also present in the 997.2 generations using the 9A1 (MA1) engine configurations, but it's much more rare from my understanding. I agree though that the cold start looks fine.
I purchased my 997.2 this past late Oct-early Nov. Sounds like there are a lot of other issues you may have with the car such as it being a large financial burden. I don’t care if it’s paid for or has a loan. It’s your money and you feel how you do. I get it, buyers remorse. Sometimes we tend to make up excuses. Both of my tips were sooty. The exhaust has a rich smell on startup and I think it’s part of the mechanicalness of the older model and direct injection. Mind you the 991.1 uses nearly the identical motor as our 997.2. My car is 55k miles it’s identical to yours. Black on black, coupe, sunroof, comfort seats etc. 09’ C2S but mine is PDK. I’ve owned manual cars I don’t really care I love my clunky rewarding PDK. It drives best in manual mode especially around town. My car lived its first 30k miles with its original owner/lease in TX from late 08’ to early 12’. So no cold climate obviously. Probably ideal for its running in of 5k-10k miles. It then lived in Indiana and Ohio. Mine was $58k at the time and had extensive service history. I had no PPI done whatsoever. I did my due diligence which I base off of history and condition of the car. As for the history I try to get an idea of its ownership and life. Such as the 30k mile lease being an office or hospital car. Then the mileage dropped significantly and had only been driven 6k miles since early 2020. I feel very confident with my car and have respect KNOWING it’s about 15 years old and shit happens. It’s an old car now! Since 2020 it’s had, new N2 spec Michelins (yep they’re loud I know) Alignment, rear brakes, PDK service done by my selling dealer as well as the spark plugs. Brake fluid flush, power steering fluid flush. It’s solid, knock on wood. VW getting Porsche fully in 2011 has NOTHING to do with the 991 being different other than times change, emissions need to be met. That being said the 997 gen is just smaller and more analog. I feel like your anxiety or nervousness stems from more than the bore scoring. Just get rid of it dude. I traded a perfect 2019’ 718 Cayman 2.0 6spd with 8k miles for my 09’ C2S with 55k miles. I think you just don’t get the car. An old saying, “Not meant to be something to everyone, but everything to someone.” My car has creaks and rattles, some I’ve remedied. My car has been sorted thoroughly previously I’ve done engine mounts, serpentine belt/idler pulley, some new bits and pieces. All it needs is new front brakes. When I got it home, I drained the dealer oil and added Castrol Edge Euro 0w40 to pretend like the fresh dealer change was a flush after 500 miles. Happy to report after 1k miles (haven’t driven it much being winter/life) no oil consumption. Fires up fast and perfect on its 05/18 battery. Even after sitting 6 weeks WITHOUT a tender. You’re bluffing, about getting a 997.1 or 996 and sorting those issues being a better idea. Again you’ve mentioned “less money.” I’ve grown to think those cars, the 996 are beautiful for their era, although I do like the 996.2 better. A 996.2 C4S or Turbo is perfect. I just think you sound so dramatically unenthused is to why I say go ahead and get rid of it. 997.2 is the hottest water cooled variant on the market currently and your 6 speed C2S car is THE hot variant right now. Any questions please ask me, I like to give insight, advice and mostly support. Been a long time car enthusiast myself and have been a huge Porsche fan for a long time. Just finally got to that level a few years ago. Before then it was BMW. Now I own Toyotas and Lexus’ so I can justify taking care of my Porsche’s needs.
I have a Q for you. Just starting to look into getting one of these for myself. I have this idea that I want analog and mechanical, feeedback from the wheel and shifter, ect. Are these (996, 997 so different in driving experience from the caymuns of similar years? Those are mid-engine, how would that feel, or hold up, over time? My wife isnt into me constantly buying new things so I need to be happy with what I get for at least 5 years) (happy wife, happy life,ect)
I have the same spec as you, and purchased mine in Ohio with the same mileage . Maybe these aren’t so rare 😂 Valid points and I felt the same watching the video. No clear signs of bore scoring, and use high quality oil, gas, and maintain properly and this is one of the best cars in the 50-80k range right now. No IMS to worry about, very few cases of bore scoring, and one of the most beautiful generations. You could save some money and get a 996 or 997.1, but I think my anxiety would be even higher in one of those.
Dude, you are stressing yourself because you want to, all you spoke is in your head at this moment. Enjoy the car, use it hard as it was designed to be used, deal with it when you have proof and meanwhile enjoy! I’ve had mine since 2017 and it’s been pure joy!
Brother, drive and enjoy your car. I have the exact same 997.2 and I drive it hard. You can't live your life in fear while worrying about things that will impede your happiness. The 997.2 engines are extremely reliable.
I honestly wouldn't worry about bore score in the 997.2 3.8. The odds are astronomically low. Why not go the M2 route (either certified or new)? If anything goes wrong, you can have it warrantied. FWIW, I have a 2012 997.2 C4S and I have zero stress about bore score. Now paying for the 12 year service with PDK flush and probably swapping out the water pump... that will be a pretty penny (but worth it in my opinion).
Did i just spend 13 minutes watching this you moan about owning a manual 997.2 ? I have a 2008 997.2 PDK C2 for nearly 4 years with 30,000 km clocked. The 997.2 has no bore scoring issues. You need to relax and enjoy the car. Drive it everyday and live in the present.
997.2 certainly DOES have bore scoring issues. Mine ate cylinder #5 due to a injector that did not shut off completely. Fuel washed the bore at every shut down, providing a decidedly dry cylinder at start up. $27,000 later....
How you described what you're feeling about your ownership... I went through myself with owning my 997.2 in its entire ownership (coming up on a little over a 1.5yr). I am a mod bug like you, actually ended up more or less the same amount of mods (FF shift-right, FF cable ends, RSS engine mounts, full B12 kit, wheels). I'd forgo the trans mounts on the 6MT, it introduced a pretty harsh vibration around 2800k rpm. Back to my point - early on my anxiety around potential bore score crept up so much (spending too much time on the forums & confirmation bias definitely played a factor), I found myself not enjoying the car as much. Only difference between your story and mine is that shortly after buying my .2, I started to notice car was burning about a quart every 400 miles, turns out to be a lot more oil than what others were reporting as average on Rennlist. I'm a big DIYer, so I basically threw the sink at it, (replaced the AOS initially, bought a durametric to datalog, bought a boroscope to check the cylinders myself, jectron, change to different oil type) only to later throw in the towel and have a shop confirm that too much oil is seeping past the rings and rebuild is going to be needed. Friend of mine also confirmed oil burn, had him drive behind me during a drive. Since then, I've done a fair share of my research on the rebuild path and definitely more knowledgeable and confident in the direction. I understand it's a whole another ownership experience, both financially and emotionally. My plan today is to drive for another few months and ship it out to Slakker for a rebuild later in the year, granted oil consumption doesn't get any worse (fully aware of the risks) - my speediagnostix analysis came back pretty clean but Lake mentioned makeup oil may be skewing results. All that being said, if your oil consumption is looking healthy (1qt ~ 1,000 miles) without any evidence of serious oil burn, I am very confident that you are in the clear, especially if supplemented by a clean oil analysis report. I know it's easier said than done, but drive it and enjoy it. Put those mods you mentioned on (small improvements by the parts themselves, but a huge difference in combination), re-assess your relationship with the car. For me, .2 is a lifer.
Enjoy the car bro! There are lots of people out there that wish they could have a car like that so it makes you sound whiny! It seems like your trying to come up with a reason why you shouldn’t have bought it!!
@@OCDHAUS FYI, I’ve owned three Porsches and my current car is an 86.5 928 five speed I’ve had for 27 years! Never have I regretted any Porsche I’ve had as they are worth every penny I have paid for every one of them! There simply aren’t any other cars on the road like them! Have fun with it as that’s what they are for:). Life is too short to stress about stupid stuff!!
I had a 09 S manual! It was absolutely amazing… the 9:14 sound and drive was amazing… Curentl, I have a 992.1, it’s a PDK, definitely amazing as well… Now, waiting for my GTS to arrive, Manual of course… These cars are the absolute very best sports cars on earth
No offense friend but I dont think this car is for you. You really shouldn't worry about bore scoring, but it sounds like you'll never be able to fully enjoy the car. For reference, i drive a 997.1, and i dont think about bore scoring at all. If it happens in the future, ill deal with it then, cest la vie. My advice would be to sell the car, and move into something that wont cause you additional stress. Life's short man, just enjoy!
I bought my 997.2 in 2016, knock wood no issues...Drive the car and enjoy! Too many people don't drive their 911's enough to enjoy. it should bring a smile everytime. Go do track days attend cars and coffee events get with other motorheads. If you are that worried about it, sell the car before the market totally cools off. I wish you the best.
Thank you for your video. I have just upgraded to a 997.2 S from a 2000 996. I can tell you that they are completely different cars. I truly enjoyed my 996 but the 997.2 is much more refined in every possible area. Enjoy your car, change the oil every 3000 miles and push it hard once the engine oil is warm enough. We are a fart in the wind, don’t forget that.
You don’t feel that the 997.2 lost some of its rawness? I haven’t driven a 996, but imagine it’s somewhat of a better driving experience. Maybe, I’m way off. I used to have an ‘88 911 Carrera and feel it was a better pure driving experience compared to my current 997.2. It was years ago, so I could just be imagining all this.
I had a 997.2 C2 6 speed. Sold it to get a 996 Turbo 6 speed. Back in a 997.2 C2S 6 speed. I do not regret any of these decisions. The C2S is an order of magnitude better than both of the previous with literally the PERFECT blend of sportiness and everyday usability and blending in with the crowd (ok maybe the GTS is slightly more perfect). The PASM in the 997.2 is a freaking game-changer for commutes and partner comfort. You gotta pay to play buddy -- you own a 928!
Wow, it is like hearing myself after buying one of those cars! (I am a bit OCD) I hope yours will prove trouble-free, and you will be able to enjoy it fully soon.
I bought a 2009 Base Carrera 6speed and it’s been amazing! I did my homework and took my time finding the car. No bore scoring yet I keep the car under 3k rpm until the car is warmed up. I do all maintenance my self and just replaced the brakes and shift cable. Only bought the car because I can do basic maintenance. Find a good Indy and stay on the oil changes and she will be good to you. I will create some videos and share my drive through Malibu Canyon to PCH. Once a week. It’s my therapy and I’ve waited 38 years for it! Take a deep breath and Enjoy the car!
ABK from NYC here. I too am completely OCD, and have these thoughts in my head as well. But the reality is, your car is probably fine and you are letting all the issues live rent free in your head. Just fix the little things that will make the ride comfort to your liking and drive the hell out of it. It is an everyday super car, so don't fret over the outlier engines. Warm it up corrrectly, and once the oil is warm, drive the car above 3500k rpm. Regarding soot... EVERY CAR has soot on tailpipes (the soot looks even on yours to me). Don't let that get into your head!
Enjoyment for me is worth the grief. 997.1 is a ticking time bomb, you're crazy. 997.2 MT is the one everyone wants and no one can get. Drive it and when you want to dump it you'll get all your money back. Enjoy!
@@OCDHAUS I want to mention... my car is a 2009. C2S with 34k miles. I bought it 2 summers ago w 32.5k miles. Since acquisition I have done a Numeric SS and put Apex Forged LW wheels on MPS4S tires. I have the engine mounts and BMC air filters, but haven't gotten around to them yet. The SS completely transformed the car, and this summer is will do a few more maintenance related items. On my next oil change I will begin to monitor the oil analysis, but my intention is to keep this car FOREVER.
I had a 996.1 for years. I’m looking to get into a 996 turbo, 996 gt3 or 997.2 (for less money Than the gt3 but prob same as a clean turbo) but can’t decide. I think as my search continues it will just depend what is up for sale and at what price/ location. You can’t go wrong with any 911 all depends on your use case
It’s surprising to see people don’t realize that any variant of 911 can have costly repair when it gets old! It doesn’t matter if it is bore scoring or ims bearing. Just need to budget that in when you buy the car. I have had my aircool for 3 years and have already paid >30k for a full engine rebuild. It will probably be good for 10+ years but I won’t be surprised if it needs something expensive after that. Plan for it and you won’t feel as bad. If that is not in your budget, selling the car isn’t a bad option while it is still healthy
I have a 997.2 black edition. The engine is a 3.6 liter. Currently under CPO. I am planning to add additional warranty after the CPO expires. My concerns are the pdk and engine. Any recommendations out there for 3rd parties car warranty. Thx
The one you bought - do you have service records and know where the car was previously driven? My understanding about the bore scoring is it occurs mainly in colder, northern climates to cars that were mostly driven short distances. You talked here about not wanting to take short drives for this reason. I hate to hear an enthusiast with anxiety over their car when they obviously care about it and want the best for it. Good luck with it.
@@OCDHAUS without something with the previous owner’s contact info, which the servicing dealer or shop will not give out, I guess you’re kind of limited. See if you can ascertain if the owner drove it in winter based on dates of services, mileage driven between services, which I understand may only be a sample size of a few. Another thing about the cars with bore scoring is they tend to have tens of thousands of miles, does that sound right? I forget. But with your low miles, you’re less likely to have the issue, AND you’re aware of it and going to mitigate it. You might want to look into getting a leakdown test to see if compression is getting past the piston rings and compare the driver side bank to the passenger side’s numbers. But that’s really if you just can’t stop thinking about it.
Probably rebuild it, get it re-sleeved at LN Engineering. However, even if it shows signs of bore scoring tomorrow, it’ll be a while before it comes to that. I’ll take every preventative measure to the Nth degree and just drive it, which is basically what I’m doing with it now. It’s just one of those things like Covid or herpes, you probably don’t have it, but then again, what if you do?
My understanding is that bore scoring is caused because of the cylinder materials, which is the same for all three models. Nothing to do with DFI or not. I believe it’s less common with 997.2’s, but still happens and seems to be happening more because these models are starting to reach higher mileages.
I feel like you’re at a decision point if this is really killing you this much. If you love it enough, drive it and set aside some cash over time to cover a rebuild. If you don’t love it enough you should get out now. These manual .2’s are desirable, rare and while I don’t know what you paid, I imagine you could get most - if not all - of your money back out. If you lose a few grand call it the price of your sanity and move on. I’ve learned after owning a number of these cars (which all seem to have one problem or another) that you can either let them hold you hostage by worrying yourself to death or just put the potential of a catastrophic failure out of your mind and roll hard.
Anyone have an idea what % manual 997.2 S have sports chrono? It seems Sport Chrono mostly on PDKs but it could be that most of the Porsches are now PDKs.
I would keep this 997.2 and do the mods you wants, and enjoy it and keep it, I would sell the older 928 and replace it with another 911 maybe an air cooled 993 or 964.
Brother, you got the best drivers 911 and can’t enjoy it because of a tiny possibility of a more expensice repair in the future? Cmon. Even if it happens in 5 years just keep a budget for repairs and ENJOY IT
Ouch... love my gen 1... LOVE my gen 1, and if the dreaded day comes, a complete engine meltdown, the worst that happens, I get an engine rebuild to 4.0 and have an even better car than I have now!!! I might suggest, either enjoy the car for what it is, or sell to someone who will... I'm sorry, I really don't understand why you even bought the car if you can't even enjoy "short drives". I try to not be negative on RUclips but you never even really reviewed the car, primarily just focused on what MIGHT happen!!! Would add, also have a 996, honestly, becoming a money pit, will NEVER get back what I've had to put into it, but this is simply the price of admission, still the "first car of my dreams" and will never get rid of it. I'm a 60 year old construction worker with limited means so money does matter, but less so when what you've worked a lifetime to obtain and makes you happy is all that really matters. Enjoy the moment...
The key concept is “my honest review.” Nonetheless, your points are noted and will be considered. In all seriousness, I was just putting my thoughts out there, take them for what they’re worth, or not.
"why?" cause you sold your 997.2's, those owners are stressing. Seriously though, I get what you're saying and have since enjoyed the car, you should see my latest video.
2 cents… stop worrying and enjoy the car. If you can’t, sell it and move on. Prices are still good on all 911’s, even the ones hindered by unsubstantiated owner worry! 😉
You’re overly focused on bore scoring when not applicable to this model! You should of done more research before buying a 997.2! You got the right model in the first place??🤪
I believe 997.2’s experience bore scoring. Perhaps significantly less than previous models with the same cylinder materials, but they do nonetheless. I agree, I’m unnecessarily in the weeds on this.
Take it easy. 997.2 is not a bore score risk. Every car has weaknesses and yours probably fewer than most. Try a therapy😎🏁😎 PS I am a 997.2 owner myself.
997.2 S owner here as well. If worried about the engine issues you’ve noted - switch to driven DI40 oil (research why) and do an oil analysis, every change. The additives in that oil with the reports you’ll receive will give you the best indication of the health of that engine. Soot, smoke, etc are all playing with your mind. The report will not lie. You need this to set your mind at ease.
Do more research and you will realise that this car has as much likelihood of bore scoring as any other later 911. You are stressing over nothing, enjoy it. I have a 997.2 3.6 and it's just fine, warm it up and rev it and don't fret. To recommend buying a 997.1 is bizarre these do often have bore scoring and IMS problems......
Yeah, I'm coming to that conclusion. My 996/997.1 recommendation is based on, "if I knew what I know now," I think I would have spent a lot less for a higher mileage 997.1 and just addressed the IMS and bore scoring issues right off the bat and just enjoyed the vehicle, theoretically problem free.
@@OCDHAUS Maybe a good plan if the net cost is low enough, I will definitley use mine as often as I can, its got 42k miles on the clock now and a few tweaks with forged wheels full KW V3, exhaust, qucikshift etc and I love it. I am lucky enough to have a 991.1 GT3 and epic as that is, there's something eminently useable and honest about the 997.2
1. I have owned one for many years 2. Everyone has one 3. Glorified lexus with less practicality IMO 4. If I didn't get such a great deal on it it wouldn't be worth it to me. 5. Insurance costs are very high even on a collectors policy 6. Even with center muffler delete still not loud enough (can you believe a sports car that comes with not one but three mufflers?) 7. Interior sort of basic even if you load it up with leather and carbon and alcantara. 8. Trunk big enough for you to think it is useful when it barely holds anything. I think one of the few advantages of an all electric 911 is there will be no fuel tank at the firewall which will free up a lot of frunk space. Not like you buy one of these cars for convenience but slightly more practicality would be appreciated. 9. Forged wheels not particularly light or strong. Just a little more sidewall would be nice. 10. Too many fan boys who think porsche is the end all be all in cars. Its almost like a cult. 11. Useless back seats; bose subwoofer takes up more space that can be used when seats folded down. 12. At least you can still do basic maintenance on the car. 991.1+ you have to take off the rear bumper and cooling fans to change the air filters and oil filter.
1. Good for you. 2. Really? I thought these were rare, no? 3. Please, German engineering man! 4. What is a good deal? Inquiring minds want to know. 5. Not so much for me, although it's not considered a collector car from my insurance. 6. I agree, the sound is one of its weaker points. 7. I like the interior of the 997 gens, not as good as the later models, but still way better than the 996's. 8. Frunk, right? I think it's plenty big and there's a lot of room in the rear area. Also, kids fit fine in the rear seats and adults in a pinch. I don't think one should look at it's practicality, or lack thereof, as a negative. 9. Really? How are you claiming this? Which wheels? 10. I agree, but better this than fans of boys. 11. I disagree, "useless" is far from the back seats and storage area. Granted if you're comparing it to a Lexus... 12. Very true. Man, I thought I was a complainer and nit-picky. I'm just kidding, your points are noted. Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like you bought a car you can’t afford to maintain, then you go on to recommend a 996 which is leaps and bounds Less reliable, hand the Porsche keys over to someone who deserves it.
The 997 bore scoring issue is exclusively associated with the M96(7) engine that was used in the 996 and the gen 1 997. You have a gen 2 997. It has the MA1 engine, which is entirely distinct from the earlier M96 and M97 engine.
Your exhaust soot looks entirely normal. Your start-up sounded normal. Your cold-start gases look fine.
You have a fantastic car. Bring the oil temperature up gently when you first start - sensible for any car - then drive it like you stole it.
I had the same MA1 engine in the same car, and ran it (hard) for five years. Bore scoring is a non-issue.
That's not exactly true, bore scoring is also present in the 997.2 generations using the 9A1 (MA1) engine configurations, but it's much more rare from my understanding. I agree though that the cold start looks fine.
Don’t be so negative bud, you gotta beautiful car, just enjoy it. Life is too short to worry.
I purchased my 997.2 this past late Oct-early Nov.
Sounds like there are a lot of other issues you may have with the car such as it being a large financial burden. I don’t care if it’s paid for or has a loan. It’s your money and you feel how you do. I get it, buyers remorse. Sometimes we tend to make up excuses.
Both of my tips were sooty. The exhaust has a rich smell on startup and I think it’s part of the mechanicalness of the older model and direct injection. Mind you the 991.1 uses nearly the identical motor as our 997.2.
My car is 55k miles it’s identical to yours. Black on black, coupe, sunroof, comfort seats etc. 09’ C2S but mine is PDK. I’ve owned manual cars I don’t really care I love my clunky rewarding PDK. It drives best in manual mode especially around town.
My car lived its first 30k miles with its original owner/lease in TX from late 08’ to early 12’. So no cold climate obviously. Probably ideal for its running in of 5k-10k miles.
It then lived in Indiana and Ohio. Mine was $58k at the time and had extensive service history. I had no PPI done whatsoever. I did my due diligence which I base off of history and condition of the car. As for the history I try to get an idea of its ownership and life. Such as the 30k mile lease being an office or hospital car. Then the mileage dropped significantly and had only been driven 6k miles since early 2020. I feel very confident with my car and have respect KNOWING it’s about 15 years old and shit happens. It’s an old car now!
Since 2020 it’s had, new N2 spec Michelins (yep they’re loud I know)
Alignment, rear brakes, PDK service done by my selling dealer as well as the spark plugs. Brake fluid flush, power steering fluid flush. It’s solid, knock on wood.
VW getting Porsche fully in 2011 has NOTHING to do with the 991 being different other than times change, emissions need to be met. That being said the 997 gen is just smaller and more analog.
I feel like your anxiety or nervousness stems from more than the bore scoring. Just get rid of it dude.
I traded a perfect 2019’ 718 Cayman 2.0 6spd with 8k miles for my 09’ C2S with 55k miles.
I think you just don’t get the car. An old saying, “Not meant to be something to everyone, but everything to someone.”
My car has creaks and rattles, some I’ve remedied. My car has been sorted thoroughly previously I’ve done engine mounts, serpentine belt/idler pulley, some new bits and pieces. All it needs is new front brakes. When I got it home, I drained the dealer oil and added Castrol Edge Euro 0w40 to pretend like the fresh dealer change was a flush after 500 miles. Happy to report after 1k miles (haven’t driven it much being winter/life) no oil consumption. Fires up fast and perfect on its 05/18 battery. Even after sitting 6 weeks WITHOUT a tender.
You’re bluffing, about getting a 997.1 or 996 and sorting those issues being a better idea. Again you’ve mentioned “less money.” I’ve grown to think those cars, the 996 are beautiful for their era, although I do like the 996.2 better. A 996.2 C4S or Turbo is perfect.
I just think you sound so dramatically unenthused is to why I say go ahead and get rid of it. 997.2 is the hottest water cooled variant on the market currently and your 6 speed C2S car is THE hot variant right now.
Any questions please ask me, I like to give insight, advice and mostly support.
Been a long time car enthusiast myself and have been a huge Porsche fan for a long time. Just finally got to that level a few years ago. Before then it was BMW. Now I own Toyotas and Lexus’ so I can justify taking care of my Porsche’s needs.
I have a Q for you. Just starting to look into getting one of these for myself. I have this idea that I want analog and mechanical, feeedback from the wheel and shifter, ect. Are these (996, 997 so different in driving experience from the caymuns of similar years? Those are mid-engine, how would that feel, or hold up, over time? My wife isnt into me constantly buying new things so I need to be happy with what I get for at least 5 years) (happy wife, happy life,ect)
I have the same spec as you, and purchased mine in Ohio with the same mileage . Maybe these aren’t so rare 😂
Valid points and I felt the same watching the video. No clear signs of bore scoring, and use high quality oil, gas, and maintain properly and this is one of the best cars in the 50-80k range right now. No IMS to worry about, very few cases of bore scoring, and one of the most beautiful generations. You could save some money and get a 996 or 997.1, but I think my anxiety would be even higher in one of those.
Dude, you are stressing yourself because you want to, all you spoke is in your head at this moment. Enjoy the car, use it hard as it was designed to be used, deal with it when you have proof and meanwhile enjoy! I’ve had mine since 2017 and it’s been pure joy!
Brother, drive and enjoy your car. I have the exact same 997.2 and I drive it hard. You can't live your life in fear while worrying about things that will impede your happiness. The 997.2 engines are extremely reliable.
I honestly wouldn't worry about bore score in the 997.2 3.8. The odds are astronomically low. Why not go the M2 route (either certified or new)? If anything goes wrong, you can have it warrantied. FWIW, I have a 2012 997.2 C4S and I have zero stress about bore score. Now paying for the 12 year service with PDK flush and probably swapping out the water pump... that will be a pretty penny (but worth it in my opinion).
Did i just spend 13 minutes watching this you moan about owning a manual 997.2 ? I have a 2008 997.2 PDK C2 for nearly 4 years with 30,000 km clocked. The 997.2 has no bore scoring issues. You need to relax and enjoy the car. Drive it everyday and live in the present.
997.2 certainly DOES have bore scoring issues. Mine ate cylinder #5 due to a injector that did not shut off completely. Fuel washed the bore at every shut down, providing a decidedly dry cylinder at start up. $27,000 later....
This is more a mental health update than a review of the car. Hang in there Buddy!
How you described what you're feeling about your ownership... I went through myself with owning my 997.2 in its entire ownership (coming up on a little over a 1.5yr). I am a mod bug like you, actually ended up more or less the same amount of mods (FF shift-right, FF cable ends, RSS engine mounts, full B12 kit, wheels). I'd forgo the trans mounts on the 6MT, it introduced a pretty harsh vibration around 2800k rpm.
Back to my point - early on my anxiety around potential bore score crept up so much (spending too much time on the forums & confirmation bias definitely played a factor), I found myself not enjoying the car as much. Only difference between your story and mine is that shortly after buying my .2, I started to notice car was burning about a quart every 400 miles, turns out to be a lot more oil than what others were reporting as average on Rennlist. I'm a big DIYer, so I basically threw the sink at it, (replaced the AOS initially, bought a durametric to datalog, bought a boroscope to check the cylinders myself, jectron, change to different oil type) only to later throw in the towel and have a shop confirm that too much oil is seeping past the rings and rebuild is going to be needed. Friend of mine also confirmed oil burn, had him drive behind me during a drive.
Since then, I've done a fair share of my research on the rebuild path and definitely more knowledgeable and confident in the direction. I understand it's a whole another ownership experience, both financially and emotionally. My plan today is to drive for another few months and ship it out to Slakker for a rebuild later in the year, granted oil consumption doesn't get any worse (fully aware of the risks) - my speediagnostix analysis came back pretty clean but Lake mentioned makeup oil may be skewing results.
All that being said, if your oil consumption is looking healthy (1qt ~ 1,000 miles) without any evidence of serious oil burn, I am very confident that you are in the clear, especially if supplemented by a clean oil analysis report. I know it's easier said than done, but drive it and enjoy it. Put those mods you mentioned on (small improvements by the parts themselves, but a huge difference in combination), re-assess your relationship with the car. For me, .2 is a lifer.
Enjoy the car bro! There are lots of people out there that wish they could have a car like that so it makes you sound whiny! It seems like your trying to come up with a reason why you shouldn’t have bought it!!
I know, I know.
@@OCDHAUS FYI, I’ve owned three Porsches and my current car is an 86.5 928 five speed I’ve had for 27 years! Never have I regretted any Porsche I’ve had as they are worth every penny I have paid for every one of them! There simply aren’t any other cars on the road like them! Have fun with it as that’s what they are for:). Life is too short to stress about stupid stuff!!
I had a 09 S manual! It was absolutely amazing… the 9:14 sound and drive was amazing… Curentl, I have a 992.1, it’s a PDK, definitely amazing as well…
Now, waiting for my GTS to arrive, Manual of course…
These cars are the absolute very best sports cars on earth
No offense friend but I dont think this car is for you. You really shouldn't worry about bore scoring, but it sounds like you'll never be able to fully enjoy the car. For reference, i drive a 997.1, and i dont think about bore scoring at all. If it happens in the future, ill deal with it then, cest la vie. My advice would be to sell the car, and move into something that wont cause you additional stress. Life's short man, just enjoy!
Nailed it...
I bought my 997.2 in 2016, knock wood no issues...Drive the car and enjoy! Too many people don't drive their 911's enough to enjoy. it should bring a smile everytime. Go do track days attend cars and coffee events get with other motorheads. If you are that worried about it, sell the car before the market totally cools off. I wish you the best.
Thank you for your video. I have just upgraded to a 997.2 S from a 2000 996. I can tell you that they are completely different cars. I truly enjoyed my 996 but the 997.2 is much more refined in every possible area.
Enjoy your car, change the oil every 3000 miles and push it hard once the engine oil is warm enough. We are a fart in the wind, don’t forget that.
You don’t feel that the 997.2 lost some of its rawness? I haven’t driven a 996, but imagine it’s somewhat of a better driving experience. Maybe, I’m way off. I used to have an ‘88 911 Carrera and feel it was a better pure driving experience compared to my current 997.2. It was years ago, so I could just be imagining all this.
I had a 997.2 C2 6 speed. Sold it to get a 996 Turbo 6 speed. Back in a 997.2 C2S 6 speed. I do not regret any of these decisions. The C2S is an order of magnitude better than both of the previous with literally the PERFECT blend of sportiness and everyday usability and blending in with the crowd (ok maybe the GTS is slightly more perfect). The PASM in the 997.2 is a freaking game-changer for commutes and partner comfort. You gotta pay to play buddy -- you own a 928!
Wow, it is like hearing myself after buying one of those cars! (I am a bit OCD) I hope yours will prove trouble-free, and you will be able to enjoy it fully soon.
I bought a 2009 Base Carrera 6speed and it’s been amazing! I did my homework and took my time finding the car. No bore scoring yet I keep the car under 3k rpm until the car is warmed up. I do all maintenance my self and just replaced the brakes and shift cable. Only bought the car because I can do basic maintenance. Find a good Indy and stay on the oil changes and she will be good to you. I will create some videos and share my drive through Malibu Canyon to PCH. Once a week. It’s my therapy and I’ve waited 38 years for it! Take a deep breath and Enjoy the car!
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I’ve been able to really enjoy it since making this video, took me a minute.
ABK from NYC here. I too am completely OCD, and have these thoughts in my head as well. But the reality is, your car is probably fine and you are letting all the issues live rent free in your head. Just fix the little things that will make the ride comfort to your liking and drive the hell out of it. It is an everyday super car, so don't fret over the outlier engines. Warm it up corrrectly, and once the oil is warm, drive the car above 3500k rpm. Regarding soot... EVERY CAR has soot on tailpipes (the soot looks even on yours to me). Don't let that get into your head!
If it isn't ticking, you're good on bore scoring.
Change your oil regularly and get oil analysis. Also switch to DRIVEN DI-40 oil.
Enjoyment for me is worth the grief. 997.1 is a ticking time bomb, you're crazy. 997.2 MT is the one everyone wants and no one can get. Drive it and when you want to dump it you'll get all your money back. Enjoy!
Thanks, I copy.
@@OCDHAUS I want to mention... my car is a 2009. C2S with 34k miles. I bought it 2 summers ago w 32.5k miles. Since acquisition I have done a Numeric SS and put Apex Forged LW wheels on MPS4S tires. I have the engine mounts and BMC air filters, but haven't gotten around to them yet. The SS completely transformed the car, and this summer is will do a few more maintenance related items. On my next oil change I will begin to monitor the oil analysis, but my intention is to keep this car FOREVER.
What are your thoughts about the numeric ss verses the ff shifter upgrade? Worth the extra cost?
I had a 996.1 for years. I’m looking to get into a 996 turbo, 996 gt3 or 997.2 (for less money Than the gt3 but prob same as a clean turbo) but can’t decide. I think as my search continues it will just depend what is up for sale and at what price/ location. You can’t go wrong with any 911 all depends on your use case
It’s surprising to see people don’t realize that any variant of 911 can have costly repair when it gets old! It doesn’t matter if it is bore scoring or ims bearing. Just need to budget that in when you buy the car.
I have had my aircool for 3 years and have already paid >30k for a full engine rebuild. It will probably be good for 10+ years but I won’t be surprised if it needs something expensive after that.
Plan for it and you won’t feel as bad. If that is not in your budget, selling the car isn’t a bad option while it is still healthy
If it costs your peace of mind, it’s too expensive.
Indeed
I wish that we can just all drive these cars without any worries like driving a Toyota.
I have a 997.2 black edition. The engine is a 3.6 liter. Currently under CPO. I am planning to add additional warranty after the CPO expires. My concerns are the pdk and engine. Any recommendations out there for 3rd parties car warranty. Thx
Nice car. Sorry, I don’t know of any 3rd party car warranties. The one I’m aware of needs to be established through a dealer.
The one you bought - do you have service records and know where the car was previously driven? My understanding about the bore scoring is it occurs mainly in colder, northern climates to cars that were mostly driven short distances. You talked here about not wanting to take short drives for this reason. I hate to hear an enthusiast with anxiety over their car when they obviously care about it and want the best for it. Good luck with it.
Original owner lived in New Jersey, no records except those on carfax, which was pretty limited due to its low mileage.
@@OCDHAUS without something with the previous owner’s contact info, which the servicing dealer or shop will not give out, I guess you’re kind of limited. See if you can ascertain if the owner drove it in winter based on dates of services, mileage driven between services, which I understand may only be a sample size of a few. Another thing about the cars with bore scoring is they tend to have tens of thousands of miles, does that sound right? I forget. But with your low miles, you’re less likely to have the issue, AND you’re aware of it and going to mitigate it. You might want to look into getting a leakdown test to see if compression is getting past the piston rings and compare the driver side bank to the passenger side’s numbers. But that’s really if you just can’t stop thinking about it.
I know, I know.
So what is your plan if you see bore scoring on this car?
Sell, rebuild, engine swap....etc?
Probably rebuild it, get it re-sleeved at LN Engineering. However, even if it shows signs of bore scoring tomorrow, it’ll be a while before it comes to that. I’ll take every preventative measure to the Nth degree and just drive it, which is basically what I’m doing with it now. It’s just one of those things like Covid or herpes, you probably don’t have it, but then again, what if you do?
Over thinking it? Sounds like you need to sell it to someone that can appreciate and maintain it and lease a new car.
Does the meaning of the title of my channel allude you? All joking aside, I’ve moved on since making this video.
I thought bore scoring was only the issue for 996 and 997.1 cars. 997.2 has the DFI engine, which doesn´t have that problem. Or?
My understanding is that bore scoring is caused because of the cylinder materials, which is the same for all three models. Nothing to do with DFI or not. I believe it’s less common with 997.2’s, but still happens and seems to be happening more because these models are starting to reach higher mileages.
I feel like you’re at a decision point if this is really killing you this much. If you love it enough, drive it and set aside some cash over time to cover a rebuild. If you don’t love it enough you should get out now. These manual .2’s are desirable, rare and while I don’t know what you paid, I imagine you could get most - if not all - of your money back out. If you lose a few grand call it the price of your sanity and move on. I’ve learned after owning a number of these cars (which all seem to have one problem or another) that you can either let them hold you hostage by worrying yourself to death or just put the potential of a catastrophic failure out of your mind and roll hard.
Anyone have an idea what % manual 997.2 S have sports chrono? It seems Sport Chrono mostly on PDKs but it could be that most of the Porsches are now PDKs.
I would keep this 997.2 and do the mods you wants, and enjoy it and keep it, I would sell the older 928 and replace it with another 911 maybe an air cooled 993 or 964.
Or just keep the 928 and get a 993 when I can afford it. The 928 is pretty cool.
You should buy a Jetta, at least you will be able to make the payments......
Please unsubscribe from my channel.
@OCDHAUS I never subscribed. Like I said a Jetta or even a Honda Accord might be better for you.
Brother, you got the best drivers 911 and can’t enjoy it because of a tiny possibility of a more expensice repair in the future? Cmon. Even if it happens in 5 years just keep a budget for repairs and ENJOY IT
True true
Ouch... love my gen 1... LOVE my gen 1, and if the dreaded day comes, a complete engine meltdown, the worst that happens, I get an engine rebuild to 4.0 and have an even better car than I have now!!! I might suggest, either enjoy the car for what it is, or sell to someone who will... I'm sorry, I really don't understand why you even bought the car if you can't even enjoy "short drives". I try to not be negative on RUclips but you never even really reviewed the car, primarily just focused on what MIGHT happen!!!
Would add, also have a 996, honestly, becoming a money pit, will NEVER get back what I've had to put into it, but this is simply the price of admission, still the "first car of my dreams" and will never get rid of it. I'm a 60 year old construction worker with limited means so money does matter, but less so when what you've worked a lifetime to obtain and makes you happy is all that really matters.
Enjoy the moment...
The key concept is “my honest review.” Nonetheless, your points are noted and will be considered. In all seriousness, I was just putting my thoughts out there, take them for what they’re worth, or not.
I had 2 x 997.2 never ever a problem and just bought a 997.2 Turbo S, why..... Because I enjoy driving the 997.2, you should the same !!
"why?" cause you sold your 997.2's, those owners are stressing. Seriously though, I get what you're saying and have since enjoyed the car, you should see my latest video.
@@OCDHAUS Traded it in with 93,000 miles on the clock, so you have many safe miles to go from what I saw
2 cents… stop worrying and enjoy the car. If you can’t, sell it and move on. Prices are still good on all 911’s, even the ones hindered by unsubstantiated owner worry! 😉
Copy
Just drive it I got a 996 4s and a 997 4s never have a problem change the oils on time and drive them
You’re overly focused on bore scoring when not applicable to this model! You should of done more research before buying a 997.2! You got the right model in the first place??🤪
I believe 997.2’s experience bore scoring. Perhaps significantly less than previous models with the same cylinder materials, but they do nonetheless. I agree, I’m unnecessarily in the weeds on this.
Take it easy. 997.2 is not a bore score risk. Every car has weaknesses and yours probably fewer than most.
Try a therapy😎🏁😎
PS
I am a 997.2 owner myself.
Your comment seems to be the consensus. I’ve relaxed since making this video and starting to enjoy the car. Thanks Peter
😂 just enjoy the vehicle. Frequent oil changes help.
997.2 S owner here as well. If worried about the engine issues you’ve noted - switch to driven DI40 oil (research why) and do an oil analysis, every change. The additives in that oil with the reports you’ll receive will give you the best indication of the health of that engine. Soot, smoke, etc are all playing with your mind. The report will not lie. You need this to set your mind at ease.
I’m planning on it. Thanks Luis.
Can't you have that scoped?
I did scope it, I did a video about my results...
Do more research and you will realise that this car has as much likelihood of bore scoring as any other later 911. You are stressing over nothing, enjoy it. I have a 997.2 3.6 and it's just fine, warm it up and rev it and don't fret. To recommend buying a 997.1 is bizarre these do often have bore scoring and IMS problems......
Yeah, I'm coming to that conclusion. My 996/997.1 recommendation is based on, "if I knew what I know now," I think I would have spent a lot less for a higher mileage 997.1 and just addressed the IMS and bore scoring issues right off the bat and just enjoyed the vehicle, theoretically problem free.
@@OCDHAUS Maybe a good plan if the net cost is low enough, I will definitley use mine as often as I can, its got 42k miles on the clock now and a few tweaks with forged wheels full KW V3, exhaust, qucikshift etc and I love it. I am lucky enough to have a 991.1 GT3 and epic as that is, there's something eminently useable and honest about the 997.2
Oh nice, a 991.1 GT3 also, good for you.
just get a 997.2 and not worry about the IMS.
I have a 997.2
1. I have owned one for many years
2. Everyone has one
3. Glorified lexus with less practicality IMO
4. If I didn't get such a great deal on it it wouldn't be worth it to me.
5. Insurance costs are very high even on a collectors policy
6. Even with center muffler delete still not loud enough (can you believe a sports car that comes with not one but three mufflers?)
7. Interior sort of basic even if you load it up with leather and carbon and alcantara.
8. Trunk big enough for you to think it is useful when it barely holds anything. I think one of the few advantages of an all electric 911 is there will be no fuel tank at the firewall which will free up a lot of frunk space. Not like you buy one of these cars for convenience but slightly more practicality would be appreciated.
9. Forged wheels not particularly light or strong. Just a little more sidewall would be nice.
10. Too many fan boys who think porsche is the end all be all in cars. Its almost like a cult.
11. Useless back seats; bose subwoofer takes up more space that can be used when seats folded down.
12. At least you can still do basic maintenance on the car. 991.1+ you have to take off the rear bumper and cooling fans to change the air filters and oil filter.
1. Good for you.
2. Really? I thought these were rare, no?
3. Please, German engineering man!
4. What is a good deal? Inquiring minds want to know.
5. Not so much for me, although it's not considered a collector car from my insurance.
6. I agree, the sound is one of its weaker points.
7. I like the interior of the 997 gens, not as good as the later models, but still way better than the 996's.
8. Frunk, right? I think it's plenty big and there's a lot of room in the rear area. Also, kids fit fine in the rear seats and adults in a pinch. I don't think one should look at it's practicality, or lack thereof, as a negative.
9. Really? How are you claiming this? Which wheels?
10. I agree, but better this than fans of boys.
11. I disagree, "useless" is far from the back seats and storage area. Granted if you're comparing it to a Lexus...
12. Very true.
Man, I thought I was a complainer and nit-picky. I'm just kidding, your points are noted. Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like you should sell the car
Indeed. Fun fact, Asian commentators on this particular video are saying I should just sell it. Too funny.
Sounds like you bought a car you can’t afford to maintain, then you go on to recommend a 996 which is leaps and bounds Less reliable, hand the Porsche keys over to someone who deserves it.
Relax dude