UNFORTUNATE Engine News.. PLUS Subframe RESTORATION on the 1973 Chevy Camaro Z28!!
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Unfortunate Engine News.. PLUS Subframe Restoration on the 1973 Chevy Camaro Z28!!
This episode focuses on unfortunate engine news that the machine shop discovered as well as restoring the subframe on my 1973 Chevy Camaro Z28
Products used (NOT SPONSORED):
-Eastwood Rust Encapsulator Matt Black (1 qt)
-Eastwood 2k Ceramic Chassis Black (1 qt)
-Eastwood internal frame coating (2 cans)
Gun- Iwata Air Gunsa 25psi at gun, 1.5 fluid tip
![How To Restore A 1971 Camaro Subframe To Better Than New [DIY]!](/img/1.gif)
A lot of times a guy reads to many car magazines or starts listening to people that the closest they ever came to a rebuilt engine was driving past an automotive machine shop and starts spending money he doesn't have to. Use the block you have and unless you are going to be spinning your engine past 6500 RPMs you don't need a forged crank or have to have it balanced. The comp cams L 79 nostalgia replacement cam kit from comp cams works well and it's only $ 220 bucks with the lifters which is way cheaper than a roller setup. There is no real trick to burning in a flat tappet cam if you use the right oil and run it at 2500 RPMs for 20 minutes with no idle time. Since you are going to replace the heads take the money you save on the tips I have given you and have the heads ported it is money well spent. It's your money these other people though maybe well intended have no skin in the game when they make their suggestions. Don't try to reinvent the wheel keep it simple and don't forget 10 PSI of oil pressure for every 1000 RPMs so you will need a high volume pump.
I wanted to freshen up my 350 and the only thing I did differently was I had the heads ported and I couldn't believe how much more power it had. My friend is using the comp L79 nostalgia cam in his 350, it makes great power and has a nasty lumpy idle, and the best thing it's a hydraulic cam.
Great advice man, I am using the factory block and went with a NON forged Crank for the rotating assembly from skip white. I agree, it seems people (such as myself) get locked into hearing scary stories about engine building. The other 2 SBC engines I built in the past have been running great but I never built a 383 myself (until now) so figured I would play it as safe as possible with the money I have into it. Thanks for the re-assurance though=)!
I think I would box the stock block
a factory roller block only makes sense, and so does a crate long block.
350-400hp engines can be had for 10 to 15$ per horsepower, and deals are sometimes 25%+off that
I went back and forth with this idea too. It's a tough decision!
I second this suggestion. If you are putting different heads on it anyway I don't see any advantage in reusing the block. Especially if you want to go hydraulic roller just get a crate engine and don't spend anymore money on the original 350. Just prep it good and seal it up.
Congratulations on your wedding. Your car is gonna look awesome when done. Have a great day and stay safe
You must be the only RUclips builder that’s NOT dropping in an LS crate motor! Ha!
Congrats on the wedding!
Thanks! Haha if it’s original I like to just modify what I have 👍
My heart grew 10x when you said 383 stroker!!
I am pretty excited about it!!
I have build a few 383 strokers in my day. you will be happy with a 383. the torque is much better than a 350. here are some things you need to know. I just finished building one similar to what you are building for my buddies 67 Camaro.
1. you should have the block checked for crank shaft alignment if it had a cracked crank. if it is out, have it align honed/bored.
2. you will need to have the 350 block clearanced for the longer throws on a stroker crank.
3. make sure you buy it as a kit, that has the crank, rods and pistons and bearings you want. also make sure you use aftermarket rods. the factory 350 5.7 rods can hit the cam lobes in certain spots. the factory 400 sbc rods were clearance at the factory to clear the cam on the upper shoulder of the rod. most aftermarket kits with 5.7 rods are designed to clear the cam lobes.
4. if you are going with the 64cc AFR heads and standard 17cc dish to get to 9.5:1 compression. I would go and 8-10cc dish and with 10-10.5:1 compression, you can run more compression with aluminum heads than you can with cast iron and still run pump gas. if you take 2 identical engines with the exception of the heads, with one being made from cast iron and one being made from aluminum, the iron head engine will make more power below 9.5:1 compression. this is do to better heat absorption by the aluminum heads and will causes power loss at lower compressions ratios. I know it seems odd, but you have to raise the compression to compensate from power loss do to better heat absorption of aluminum. also if you go back to the stock 76cc chamber heads you will be back down around 9.2:1 compression. if you run the 17cc dish pistons and go back to the 76cc iron heads you will be at 8.5:1 compression. and with cam you were talking about, it would be a lazy pig at 8.5:1 compression.
5. defiantly go with a hydraulic roller cam. it eliminates all the issue with breaking in the cam and having to run special oil with high ZDDP to keep it alive. get it as a kit with the proper springs, keepers, retainers, pushrods, lifters, and cam, and thrust button. make sure you get the kit that is designed to retrofit the pre 86 SBC. 86 and latter use different lifters and link bars. as well as a lifter retainer.
6. if this is going to be a street car, get a cam that has between 112 and 114 degrees of lobe separation angle. it will make the car idle better, provide a wider power band between peak torque and peak horse power and provide more vacuum to things like power breaks. cams with 108-110 degree lobe separation angle will make idle rougher and have less vacuum for accessories like power breaks or AC, and will narrow the rpm range between peak torque and peak HP. that's good for race cars, but not for street cars.
7. when you re install the sub frame, there are 2 alignment holes on the frame where the firewall subframe mounts go. they are used to align the subframe to the body. there is a matching hole in the body. you need a 2 - 5/8 diameter rods or pins about 8 inches long each to go threw the hole to align it to the body on each side. also use new subframe mounts, you also need to be carful with the sheet metal alignment since it can be thrown off after removing the sub frame like that. which is again why I recommend new frame bushings. this is mostly in the body gap between the doors and front fenders. you don't want to damage the fenders or doors when opening them.
Wow thank you for all of this information, looks like what I have on order so far from skip white is dead on to what you mentioned in regards to clearance and my target compression ratio. I had no idea about the alignment method of the subframe though so I took a screenshot of this comment when I am ready to install it again. Thanks again Shad✊👍!
@@RyanSampsonRPh Ryan, you should consider getting a the factory assembly manual, body manual and service manual for your car, they are cheap and have a huge about of info on how the car was assembled at the factory. they have part numbers, wiring diagrams, window mechanism adjustment procedures, and service procedures for every part on the car. i learned a huge amount of knowledge by looking at them. also check out nastyz28.com. it is the second gen Camaro owners group site. they forum is top notch, and the people there have been super helpful to me when i had questions i could not find answers too. and members get discounts with a lot of the parts houses. you can also find parts that are not available reproduction in the classifieds section.
@@shadvan9494 Thanks Shad I will check it out! I actually just got in my factory assembly manual a few days ago 👌
@@RyanSampsonRPh All very good info from this! Spot on.
Go for the hydraulic roller. $350 vs $800 as a percentage increase of the entire project is minimal given the performance increase and longevity it will bring over a flat tappet cam. Well done series.
That’s what I am thinkin, I will just spend the extra few hundred more to be safe
You are one busy man! Congratulations on your wedding. There are a couple broken lot lizard hearts now. Sub frame looks good. Too bad about the crank. As always, you just keep pluggin away. Another great vid!
I never stop haha and thank you!!😁
Looking awesome! Cant wait to see it finished. Congrats on the wedding!
Thanks Frank!!
Yes line hone factory clearance usually isn't great. Roller cam so you don't have to worry with oil additives even after the break in period
Look into small base circle cams specifically to clear the 383 stroke.
The floor in my 81 was cut by the previous owner to get to that rear frame nut. sucks.
Crank has broken at the front journal. Due to high revs with a out of spec balancer. Get yourself a fluid damper from Banks racing!!
Get a eagle forged crank and a solid roller from comp cams!!
what a beauty..and i hope your kids follow you out into the garage..Life is mixed blessings..and never take family for granted..bravo Ryan..
Wise words thank you👍. I really hope they will like cars as much as I do!!
Get a eagle crank and rotating mass. The crank has cracked from the engine mods using a standard harmonic balancer and high revs. Get a Banks fluid harmonic balancer these are race spec and will give your rotating assembly longer life!!
Ryan, Congrats on the wedding. I built a 383 for my 72 Z28. I still haven't fired it yet. My original block was long gone. If I were you, I would get another block to convert to a 383 and keep your original a 350. The 350 block will need to be clearanced for the longer stroke. There is always a risk of hitting a water jacket. I also had to grind the rods to clear the cam. My kit came from Skip White in TN as well. Nice work on the frame. I wish my car was as rust free as yours.
Thank you! Yeep I am just going to have my machine shop clearance the block, I was going to attempt it myself but figured I would just play it safe and have them do it now. Did you pay for the cam/ rod clearance upgrade from skip white? I am hoping that will take care of it and the rods wont have to be clearanced ( I told them the cam I am going with and they have used it on their builds before as well and know where to remove material from on the rods).
@@RyanSampsonRPh I had my machine shop clearance the block. I didn't find out about the rods hitting the cam until I did my pre-assembly. I ended up taking it back to my machine shop. It was alot of hassle, but it was my first engine build. I'm not sure it was worth it. I probably would have been satisfied with a 350, but others tell me I will really like this 383. I hope to fire it up soon and break in the cam.
@@DoubleRRestorations Nice! Yeah it’s a learning process for me for sure. If it wasn’t for this cracked crank I would have just kept it a 355 and put some nice heads on it and call it a day. Nothing is ever easy though lol
Gotta say, liking just the sound of your work without that muzak.
I will try to do more of that style of filming in the future 👍
Retro roller hydraulic cam kit. AFR heads are a very good choice, but a different intake manifold will make those work much better than the one you have now. Just get the recommended top end kit from AFR , it all matches.
Junkyard ls with a cam and headers cheapest way to go
I have a Skip White 383 crate engine. It is about 425 HP, 450 torque in a 71 Z-28 it will scream. I've had it about five years good company to deal with.
Awesome news! I may have placed the order already with them 🤫 so I am glad to hear that!
you could tack weld the blue nut in just leave room for a mini cutting wheel if you ever need to remove it
Good idea, just enough of a weld to hold it in place👍
A bit of advice: buy a Howard’s cam and use ONLY new old stock Delphi lifters off of eBay. The skip white “Delphi” lifters are not the originals. The flat cams and dishes lifter problems occur with comp, crane etc lifters. The lifters made past 2005ish are Chinese and are junk af. Howard’s cams are parkerized and that adds quite a bit of insurance
Sweet, thanks for that info man!!
Hi Ryan i was listening to what you want to do with the engine. I have been putting engine combinations together for a long time and I would like to give you my thoughts and i think you would be very pleased for the money. Good idea wanting to build a 383 just about the same money as buying a new 350 crank just doesn't make sense. Anyway 383 cid engines make great cheap power provided you use the right parts in conjunction with one another. Afr heads are a great choice. I would go with 64cc chambers 200cc runners 2.02 valve's with a flat top forged piston for a 10:1 compression ratio. That would be perfect for the fuel we have available at the pump today. Also Ryan a hyd roller cam with duration at .050 around 245 and a valve lift around 510 with a performer Rpm airgap intake. That combination will give you goose bumps and reliability for not alot of money. Ps very street friendly and when someone pulls up beside you you can rest assured you'll smoke um!!!!!!
Awesome info Eric thanks! I actually ordered a rotating assembly from skip white and decided on a very similar setup that you recommended, especially with what hydraulic roller cam specs I am going with. I wanted to be no more than 10:1 compression so I went with a slight dished piston. I am in the process of making a video covering exactly what I ordered and the compression it calculates to be if you are interested in checking that out in the next week that I upload it =). Thank you for the re-assurance on my decision!
Congrats on the wedding, looks like you're at the turning point where the car is about to start coming back together good luck God bless
Thank you! Yeep starting to round the corner finally!
You can drill a hole from the bottom and open the hole a little then take a crown style nut and weld it in. It won't do this ever again. I use to work at a atv manufacturer and when this happens there...this is the process they use.
I was thinking this would be the only option without messing with the floors too much. Thanks for the input, it’s going to be a “fun” fix either way haha👍👍
If im being truthful i can say that crankshaft is repairble just weld it and i also sugest welding ur diff as well beacuse it makes the final drive smoother
I set it aside for now but good to know that it may be salvageable!
@@RyanSampsonRPh I have seen them welded up also Ryan and they do fine in race applications afterwards. It’s not a problem at all to weld it but it is a problem of finding the right shop that is set up to do it , has done it, and can be dependable and honest about it all cause every crank is different.
I’ll check with a few of my buddies that are still building and find out. I’ve got a bunch of guys in my area that build the high, high dollar stuff and they have some of the best set-up machine shops in the country cause we aren’t too far from Charlotte motor speedway where a bunch of the countries finest racers are here and we can get stuff done around here that you can’t get done anywhere else.
Won’t hurt to find out if they will still do it ya know. That way you’d at least still have the original parts if you ever wanted to go back
So, it's been almost 2 years...i'm wondering how the frame is holding up with the Eastwood products on it? I've bought some of the same stuff from them for my restoration but half the "expert" guys online are always complaining they're junk and to blast, epoxy and paint everything cuz Por15 and Rust Encapsulator stuff doesn't work...
Dunno. If changing and upgrading the engine, I'd be tempted to store away the original block along with the heads so the numbers matching engine could be put back into the car at some time if you wanted to return to a numbers matching car. Putting performance parts into the original block, and risking damaging it is not such a good idea. And, 350 blocks are plentiful. Just my opinion.
Yep I considered that but realistically if it doesn’t go in now then it most likely never will 🙂
I know you are going the 383 route, But could the? Cracks ? Be a forgeing lap on the journals as I have seen that in all types of forgeings if you tap on the crankshaft does it ring like a tuning fork or just like a thud , ?
Hey Ryan, congratulations on your marriage. It's worked well for me for more years than I care to mention and she lets me continue to buy cars! I think I suggested in a previous post that your sub frame restoration result would be greatly enhanced if you were able to remove it. Pleased to see you got some clear advice on the removal process. I restored a 67 SS/RS Camaro years back and I had my sub frame blasted and powder coated. Your efforts turned out fantastic, great job, Eastwood products are legit. Your floors are virgin and that speaks to my first impression of this nice car. Don't be afraid of hydraulic cams, proper break in lubricants and methods, you will succeed. I really respect your thoughtful approach to restorations and your channel content. Maybe you could do a post on the Corvette ect? Curious on your plans for them all.
Hey Thanks Skinner! Glad I removed it too. The vette will be for sure coming to the channel after I finish the Camaro 😎!
I love that you still are making videos even though you just got married, I love your content, this channel could be big one day, keep it up man!
Also I think it would be really cool if you did the stroker kit but also made it completely daily drivable, by that I mean not a super rowdy cam but kindof like day 2 mods on top of the stroker kit. Would be a really clean nice driving car with some good power
Thanks man I appreciate the support! Yeah I plan on driving this a good amount when the weather gets better so it will be a drivable stroker for sure 👍👌!
if i was going to as much trouble as you are now, i would have shelved the paint buffing polishing project you did first, and after finishing rebuild id have sand blasted that repaint and done a complete repaint to perfection. spending alot like your doing and not having perfect paint is not good path
Knowing me I will have it stripped down to bare metal another year from now anyway to prep it for paint 😂.. Kidding (I think lol), I am leaving the interior and exterior as is for now and just having the underneath and engine bay area pristine. Gives the whole project some character and a good story at car shows 👍
Wow, you found my copy of Dirt Bike magazine with Mark Barnett on the cover! lol Congrats on the wedding and sorry about the crank.
😂 hahaa! Thank you!
Is that a LED light screwed into the ceiling light fixture. Where did you get that? What’s the lumen output? I like that you aren’t a pro, but a normal guy working on a car he loves. Keep posting.
Yeep just the screw in LED lights that I think I got them from amazon when they first came out ($40 bucks for the pair). My garage lighting was terrible before them. It actually wasnt some cheap hoax that I figured I would try out. Im not too sure of the lumens but they are the ones with 3 “leaves” each having an led on them. Def would get again
RIP the shell gas pump over spray had to getvon it
Naa RIP to the inside of the garage door though lol
Congrats on getting married!! Making progress but man those bumps in the road always seem to find you in projects like this. lol. Thanks for the update!!
Haha thanks Scott! Yeep everything that can go wrong usually happens to me lol, oh well it will be fixed!
Ryan, first let me congratulate you on your marriage to a very beautiful lady! Marriage is like restoring a car, it takes a lot of work and faithfulness for it to work. My wife and I have been married for 35 years and raised 3 children, maybe that was the majority of the work. lol I’m sorry your crankshaft has a crack but at least you will still have a numbers matching car when you’re finished. The odds of you having an issue breaking in a new camshaft is very high but you have to do what you think or feel is best. I too would go with the stroker kit. You somewhat are a perfectionist and there’s nothing wrong with that. I hope you don’t run across any more surprises putting it all back together. Thanks for the update video and I’m looking forward for the next one!
Thank you so much Don! 35 years and 3 kids is a wonderful accomplishment! The perfectionist is a curse to my wallet and my time but in the long run it produces a more solid piece. Thanks again for checking in 😁
Congrats on the wedding. I married my high school sweetie after 13 years of dating. Married for 33 years.. keep up the videos ,good luck with the rebuild
That is awesome! Thanks! I waited to get married due to being in college for 9 years but it all worked out!
Loving your videos. I had a '86 Trans Am back in the 90's and loved it. Watching from the UK. Please keep up the great content. Many regards.
Thanks for watching!
I love how there is crack on the floor under the crank shaft, lol., A fellow Subaru owner...
Hahha dang cracks everywhere in my life! Thanks for following fellow subie pal🤘
Definitely go with a hydraulic roller cam. You don't want the headache of a flat tappet with the (substantial) chance of wiped lobes. All it takes is a wiped lobe and you will have spent more than a roller cam as you have to take the engine all apart again, have it cleaned and new bearings.
This is what I am thinking as well, just have some extra piece of mind with the already expensive build. Thanks for your thoughts!
I just would have put access plates where the subframe is connected, that way, if you need to access later, it's there...
Good work friend
Thanks man!
Congratulations on your wedding
Thank you!!
Congrats
Thanks!!
I like from your work friend
Sub frame looks great! The shout out was cool!
Heck yeah man thanks again!
Just put a 400 crank in the 40 over block and make it a 383 Stroker
Hey Congrats on the marriage! now that you have dropped the front subframe please update your body bushings, but not just on the subframe.
Thanks Ryan and great idea! Will look into their locations in the shop manual👍
Wow Ryan... Progress plus Congrats to You and Your Bride on the nuptials! That Cam Issue... I personally would go with your 1st (least expensive) choice on that Hydraulic camshaft! Never heard of a cam lobe wiping out if proper lube and break-in procedures are followed Sir! 2nd, Crank Issue... I would get a reman (stock) Crank and Bearing Kit from either your machine shop or reputable supplier! 383 Stroker sounds all kinds of cool, but in the end are you going to be revving that high and that long to justify all that "Big Money talk"~ Just Sayin! Sub-Frame turned out incredible... Glad that youd Dad is all in on this whenever you need him ';-) Mike...
Thanks for the info Mike! Gives me a few things to think about for sure, thanks for watching!
only if you use studs then line hone
Gotcha thanks for the info!
Congratulations
Thanks Lou!
Congrates on your wedding!!!
Thanks Clem!
Looks amazing, great job!
Thank you! Cheers!
Good for you congrats
Thanks Robert!
You are increasing your youtuber skills great man super I have seen many youtubers but real video is great
Thank you so much 😀, hard to film everything but I am trying!
AFRs are legit
Try and get a LS engine from some crashed car there are tons out there..
Believe me I was tempted to but decided I would just keep the original block alive in er 👌
You are such a good guy. Beautiful wife.
love your work and congrates on your new life with a wife man i love that car ryan keep the videos comeing
Haha oh I am keeping it no matter what! 😂
congrats
Thanks David!
Great video! Keep it up!
Heck yeah man thanks!
Ryan I love your videos I had the same car Wayback in the day I just want to know how much you paid for the car when you got it
Hi Edward, I never disclosed the exact price but to give you a ballpark it was around 10k =)
Thank you Ryan for sharing that it’s just amazing it was worth the price but to see how you are doing all these videos on this car really brings great joy to me as I stated earlier I saw the same car to my uncle Wayback in the early 80s which he promised to restore but never did I hope everything turns out great I can’t wait to see the final product of this beautiful year Car
Yup, 383 hyd roller. Its what all the kids are doing. Congrats.
Thank you!
Congrats on the wedding, young chap! I think that you should ask your lovely wife to assist in these videos - I'm sure that viewer figures would go through the roof! ;@D I'm sure that POWER NATION did a Camaro strip - I'll see if I can find it for you. . Keep up the great work - you'll get there! :@)
Thanks! I will have to bring her in on the videos!
Go for 400 Hp, 383. I’m getting a skipwhite engine 383
That’s the plan! 👍👍
Im ready for a new video
Sorry for the delay, it is up now !!
Congrats getting married! Im a little late lol.
Haha thanks man!!
Waiting for new video
Just uploaded one!
Congratulations on getting married to a very lovely bride.
383 Stroker will be a great engine.
Thank you Tommy! 🙂
Hell ya 383 👍💪💪💪💪💪
Brasil
Dude love your work ethic, but let's be real. I'm thinking this job will not be finished till late summer 2021. Will you work out there in the winter when it's 15F? I respect the shit out of you but...
Thanks Robert! Yeep I have worked out there in the freezing cold plenty of winters before. Just need to fire up the torpedo heater 👌!
WOOHOO go 400 crank and make a 383 that's why it's cracked
Yessir you got it!
That didn't take too long! Here you go . . ruclips.net/video/UE3L4n-OArE/видео.html
First!