This guy is amazing. I love his directness and honesty because he's successful he doesn't need to worry about holding his cards close to his chest. He's open. Thank you Harry. I've learned heaps. :)
You also have to take into account that a lot of those numbers for people earning higher on Amazon aren't actually authors at all, but people running business models. They hire ghostwriters to crank out books fast and dump loads of money into facebook ads. So it's not quite an accurate comparison.
I've learned I'm just not cut out for the self publishing treadmill. A book every month or two, in addition to all other business? It's an absolute grind.
I should probably add that there is some softness in the numbers here. The basic ratio between trad and indie success is definitely broadly accurate, but the actual numbers of authors at each income level are a bit more of an unknown. I doubt if those numbers are wildly adrift, however.
Got through 6 minutes and all I could make out is that unless you start off as a success you can't be a success. Barely anyone buys indie books and almost none of the trads buy/publish beginners. Then jump to the middle and high and and that's very low income as well. I'll have to come back to this video because the start exemplifies hopelessness for writers.
Moral of the story: don't quit your day job. Write if you have a story to tell, and consider it a success if people read it. Maybe start a Patreon for it if you release on a monthly schedule ala web serial or so.
Thank you so much for this info. I have heard such comparison before but your vlog definitely made it easy to compare and brought up the valid points for/against each route.
I''ve recently stumbled across Jericho Writers and am finding the videos extremely helpful and motivating. I've had 3 books (children's trilogy) published by a "micro-publisher" (2010-2012) and everything Harry says is spot on regarding the level of sales (low) being a potential black spot on my future career. I've just completed my 4th, standalone, children's novel and am definitely considering indie over trad, although I'm not sure e-books works as well for children's as for adult books. I might see if Harry has anything to say on this... Oh, and Harry's video on elevator pitches is invaluable.
Interesting point, Kirsty. I was wondering that myself, and thinking that going the Indie route and marketing e-books for children would be the path less travelled.
Great channel! I'm not writing in English, so I guess it's slightly different, but I would personally go for trad, because I'm just no business man, and I once saw an interview with a publisher (no agent middle man here) who explained really well how the money is divided, and it all made sense in the end.
@@historicvic2795 About the same. It entered a sales black hole most likely due to being buried by the waves of new books. Tried advertisement through Amazon/KDP but it's had no effect. *Shrug* I'm basically writing for the handful of readers/friends who genuinely care about the story.
Excellent video as always! Your style is so clear and informative. Thank you for the logical and practical truths. As a newbie looking to start somewhere this video has been amazing.
Still, I'd rather work on 1 book over 2-3 years than trying to churn out 2-10 over a single year. Some of these indie authors are like text factories...
What is the name of the second tier publisher in the UK? I didn't catch it but the name didn't sound familiar? I've heard of Kensington in the US though
Thanks Harry! I've been wondering about this for ages. I also wonder how many superstar indies are doing everything on their own. Do they have marketing whizzes in their families? Do they have a trust fund that enables them to hire people? Who does what behind the scenes? I swear there are not enough hours in a day to do all of this stuff on your own.
Indies start off working alone. Then, as they make more money, they pull in more and more freelance resources to help out on specific aspects. Very often the wife/husband/partner ends up co-running aspects of the business.
To be honest, I'm not kidding myself that I'm the next Steven King. I want to get 1, maybe 2 books published via the traditional route. I'm not looking for a change of career or to make a fortune. I just want to know that my story was good enough.
For me, it's not about the money.. I know...Dr Johnson famously said that "only a blockhead writes for any other reason than money..." Okay...call me a blockhead...money isn't important...I don't keep track of how much I make...why would I want to? My literary hero is Isaac Asimov...a compulsive writer...three to five thousand words every day... That's me...get it done and write some more...
What do you do when you've got a story that is so mind blowing it wil create an entirely new world that cam quite literally become a top netflix series, but you do not have any skills.
This guy is amazing. I love his directness and honesty because he's successful he doesn't need to worry about holding his cards close to his chest. He's open. Thank you Harry. I've learned heaps. :)
You also have to take into account that a lot of those numbers for people earning higher on Amazon aren't actually authors at all, but people running business models. They hire ghostwriters to crank out books fast and dump loads of money into facebook ads. So it's not quite an accurate comparison.
Great video! Another factor to consider are the expenses Indie authors have. Hiring editors and cover designers, etc.
I've learned I'm just not cut out for the self publishing treadmill. A book every month or two, in addition to all other business? It's an absolute grind.
The Indie versus trad income comparison really blew my mind. Not what I was expecting at all.
Thank you. Watching from Ghana, Africa. Really appreciate
Brilliant info as always, thanks for lifting the veil!
Thank you very much sir.
I should probably add that there is some softness in the numbers here. The basic ratio between trad and indie success is definitely broadly accurate, but the actual numbers of authors at each income level are a bit more of an unknown. I doubt if those numbers are wildly adrift, however.
Got through 6 minutes and all I could make out is that unless you start off as a success you can't be a success.
Barely anyone buys indie books and almost none of the trads buy/publish beginners.
Then jump to the middle and high and and that's very low income as well.
I'll have to come back to this video because the start exemplifies hopelessness for writers.
Moral of the story: don't quit your day job. Write if you have a story to tell, and consider it a success if people read it. Maybe start a Patreon for it if you release on a monthly schedule ala web serial or so.
This is BY FAR the best source of info on this topic I've ever found!! Thank you so, so much.
A very insightful video, I have the seeds of a crime thriller series I am writing.
Thank you so much for this info. I have heard such comparison before but your vlog definitely made it easy to compare and brought up the valid points for/against each route.
I''ve recently stumbled across Jericho Writers and am finding the videos extremely helpful and motivating. I've had 3 books (children's trilogy) published by a "micro-publisher" (2010-2012) and everything Harry says is spot on regarding the level of sales (low) being a potential black spot on my future career. I've just completed my 4th, standalone, children's novel and am definitely considering indie over trad, although I'm not sure e-books works as well for children's as for adult books. I might see if Harry has anything to say on this... Oh, and Harry's video on elevator pitches is invaluable.
Interesting point, Kirsty. I was wondering that myself, and thinking that going the Indie route and marketing e-books for children would be the path less travelled.
Did you end up going indie? And have you considered "Big 5" publishers, this time around, to upscale the sales as another attempt at trad?
Thank you Harry for the reality check.
Extremely useful for my personal decision making, thank you.
This is a great channel. Extremely interesting video. I must repay Harry by buying one of his books.
I just came across your channel, you have great insight. Do you have a video on the marketing aspect for entry level indie authors?
This is incredibly informative! Thank you.
Very helpful, Harry and many thanks. The comparison slides between trad and indie are jaw dropping!
Great channel! I'm not writing in English, so I guess it's slightly different, but I would personally go for trad, because I'm just no business man, and I once saw an interview with a publisher (no agent middle man here) who explained really well how the money is divided, and it all made sense in the end.
Thank you, Harry, this is the best, and frankest summary of what we as writers are up against, the scales and outcomes.
I made 33 dollars so far... I've spent far more lol. I'm basically paying people to read my book at this point.
Can you update us. How many sales now?
@@historicvic2795 About the same. It entered a sales black hole most likely due to being buried by the waves of new books. Tried advertisement through Amazon/KDP but it's had no effect. *Shrug* I'm basically writing for the handful of readers/friends who genuinely care about the story.
@@historicvic2795 Its my own damn fault in a way, I don't have a social media presence so my voice is quite limited.
@@Acesahn sorry to hear that. have you tried getting a literary agent?
@@historicvic2795 No I have not. I'll look into it.
Really clear and informative. Thanks.
Excellent video as always! Your style is so clear and informative. Thank you for the logical and practical truths. As a newbie looking to start somewhere this video has been amazing.
Still, I'd rather work on 1 book over 2-3 years than trying to churn out 2-10 over a single year. Some of these indie authors are like text factories...
That’ll never happen for me. Not in this day and age. Perhaps back then, when you had to make your own entertainment
How do you market your indie books?
What is the name of the second tier publisher in the UK? I didn't catch it but the name didn't sound familiar? I've heard of Kensington in the US though
Harry, excellent review of the two paths to publishing, thank you! Have you seen authors successfully moving from e-books to traditional publishing?
Thanks for the video - really very helpful :)
Harry and everyone who contributes, thank you so much. Do you wonder how much superstar authors make in Russia?:)
Thanks Harry! I've been wondering about this for ages. I also wonder how many superstar indies are doing everything on their own. Do they have marketing whizzes in their families? Do they have a trust fund that enables them to hire people? Who does what behind the scenes? I swear there are not enough hours in a day to do all of this stuff on your own.
Indies start off working alone. Then, as they make more money, they pull in more and more freelance resources to help out on specific aspects. Very often the wife/husband/partner ends up co-running aspects of the business.
My creative writer teacher told the class that writers got a $5000 advance when they were published...
In 1972.
To be honest, I'm not kidding myself that I'm the next Steven King. I want to get 1, maybe 2 books published via the traditional route. I'm not looking for a change of career or to make a fortune. I just want to know that my story was good enough.
on the radio Fredrick Forsyth said he received a £500 down payment on day of the jackal.
For me, it's not about the money..
I know...Dr Johnson famously said that "only a blockhead writes for any other reason than money..."
Okay...call me a blockhead...money isn't important...I don't keep track of how much I make...why would I want to?
My literary hero is Isaac Asimov...a compulsive writer...three to five thousand words every day...
That's me...get it done and write some more...
What do you do when you've got a story that is so mind blowing it wil create an entirely new world that cam quite literally become a top netflix series, but you do not have any skills.
Based on these numbers then the trad is selling more books because their royalty is so much less.