Hey Rich, et al! I'm 87 and pain free! All I do is (aim for) whole food, plant-based nutrition, and exercise. That's it! I guess I'm lucky in that I've avoided major injuries - but I've done 20+ ultra marathons in the last 3 years and I intend to keep going. 100 ultras by my 100th birthday is my goal, which incentivises me to get out there and walk - with some running (avg 40-50k per week). I tell people, I'm on 87, on no meds, living my best life - and I'm probably as happy as I've ever been! And I want to share that!
I’m glad this is being addressed because I’m sick of all these 30 year old trainers who think they know how to get you fit but know nothing about aging. I’d love to see them going ham when they’re 50.
They will still go ham at 50 if they play their cards right and don’t kill themselves. Their secret is PEDs to rapidly accelerate and shorten rest/recovery cycles. It works incredibly well, however it’s a balance like everything else and some people get greedy, do too many drugs, and die. Others do it appropriately.
This podcast has become one of my "musts" every week. I read Built to Move a couple months ago, and this vital and wonderful conversation has inspired me to read it again and carefully import the information into my life.
I'm 63 and just ran a marathon pain free. I also ran it in the same time as the marathon I ran when I was 51. I do restorative yoga with the Backmitra, breathing exercises and body weight exercises. Don't manage pain, get rid of it completely.
I think the best way to inspire teens who dislike sports or the gym is do introduce them to dance. It can be ballet, modern, jazz, tap, hip hop, you name it. There is something too prescriptive about gym, lifting, etc.Dancing with the music can be so uplifting, it releases emotions and it can be great for both strength and endurance aspect, not to mention coordination, mobility and musicality.
Juliet and Kelly are at the top of their game - a treasure chest of knowledge and wisdom and practices. I learned a ton from this conversation and their book ‘Built to Move’ and I’m sure you will too. To read more and visit the show notes visit bit.ly/richroll764
I really appreciate this conversation! I like the idea that we’re talking about functionality not aesthetic necessarily. This is an important shift. I’d love to know more about the movement school as a teacher, I’m always trying to include more movement in my students and my own routines.
I was a yoga teacher and kept injuring myself. I gave up running and lifting because I thought they were the more ‘aggressive’ sport. So I believed that was the issue since I always heard running is bad for your knees and if you don’t lift properly than you can have more injuries….which is totally true but I finally took out yoga just to see and now I can run, hike, lift …. Truth is you can injure yourself with yoga being your ‘specialized sport’ as well. Not being aligned well, going too hard or too far. I did so many forward bends which isn’t great for most people amongst other things like handstands, ugh. I don’t love it when yoga is thrown out there as a It heals all things movement. Listen to your body and you don’t need yoga specifically in order to stretch or gain more mobility. Sorry for the soapbox talk😅
Lots of love for the conversation and the importance of listening to our bodies. I've found that stretching through poses and breathing is key for just about everything. That strength test for potential partners for their daughter though...What if she fell for someone differently abled? I'm sure they'd throw that lift-the-stone, tongue-in-cheek thing out the window, but I think it's fair to mention that to be able to move our bodies in the way that we want to, or even to have the tangible asipiration to do so, is a privilege. It's also not the true test of our mettle.
Rich, I love you further presenting to your audience, the increasing importance of mobility practice--an absolute essential for maintaining all movement/activities we desire during our life. I have the upmost respect and praise for the Starretts "popularizing'" and providing, for many years, all kinds of great training exercises for increasing one's mobility." Now, that being said, please consider looking into Dr. Gary Gray--for 50+ years, he's been considered the "Father of Function." The team at the Gray Institute are the greatest movement specialists in the world! Please consider having Dr Gray as a guest on your show!!
I'm a 56 year old male and was very active with cycling, running and hiking. I had a drunk driver knock me off my bicycle and spent 6 months in bed with shattered hip, groin tendons. I find yoga is allowing me to get some flexibility back in my hip and back. Thanks for the class
Yes! This was so legit and refreshing! As a health nut of now a certain age, I am so tired of all the young fitness trainers on youtube. So many of them know nothing. This should be required viewing for them.
Just finished Built to Move, and loved, loved, loved, this conversation. I was hoping Kelly would define 'native' range of motion. I also expected them to be standing for this interview lol.
Really enjoyed the conversation about motivating kids to exercise. It’s something that I struggle with and it would be amazing if there is an opportunity to do an episode on this topic only with experts. thanks
Great episode (I'm not finished yet) I love the conversation around mobility and functional strength. As someone who grew up with posture issues and a body in chronic flight or fight mobility/ flexibility/range of motion have been my focus. I use to work construction jobs and trying to hold plasterboard above my head for longer than a few seconds was torture- wearing construction boots for 12-16hrs 6/7 days per week was also making things worse. I finally joined a functional movement group when I moved to Northern Ireland and it's starting to make a difference, Prior to that I would do my own morning/daily mobility based on workouts/ people I was following online I then supplement those 2-3 90 minute classes with additional gym workouts and Spa/Cold plunge. It's funny though, doing mobility work in the gym gets you some funny looks and comments people assume it's all BS or woo woo!
At age 69 I had to watch a video to learn how to get up off the floor. I need to practice this. Seniors don't do the barefoot running unless you want to wreck your feet. Wrecked mine just overdoing it on the beach.
Surrounded and pummeled by insanity and ridiculousness Politicians defending and supporting trump… Vladimir Putin waging war…etc To be able to tune in rich roll and listen to intelligent, decent, people is a true godsend
So there's a name for it...the Old Man Balance test. It was demonstrated by crossing the leg that's getting the sock and shoe over the standing leg. I've always tried to do it without crossing one leg over the other. More balance and muscles engaged if you're putting shoes and socks on in a variation of Extended Hand-to-Big-Toe Pose (Utthita Hasta Padangustasana) albeit with a bent raised leg. I suppose the really flexible could put on their shoes with a totally straight raised leg. Perhaps it's a spectrum: 1. Tie your shoe when someone else puts it on. 2. Pick up your shoe from the ground while seated and put in on. 3a). Put your shoe on while squatting (both feet on ground) 3b). Put your shoe while standing and bending down (both feet on ground) 4. Put your shoe on standing with crossed raised leg resting on standing leg (1 foot on ground) 5. Put your shoe on standing with raised leg bent and unsupported (1 foot on ground) 6. Put your shoe on standing with raised leg straight and unsupported (1 foot on ground) 7. Put your shoe on while hanging from gravity boots (0 feet on ground) 8. Put your shoe on during a back or forward flip (0 feet on ground)
Wow! This was hard to listen to and harder to watch. Kelly's constant cutting off of his partner Juliet was gross and unfortunate. Not only is it disrespectful, but, to be honest, she seems to be the more articulate of the two. This is the first Rich Roll podcast I remember not finishing. Rich: maybe you can redo this one in the near future with just Juliet.
about how much you need to stay in bed to get the necessary amount of sleep. for some of us, staying in bed more than 8 hours results in sleep onset insomnia and poor quality of sleep in general. that's what i ended up with because I tried to get those 8 hours of sleep. it made my sleep worse.
Everyone has heard so many different theories on what you should be doing with eating and exercise. It’s a hot mess. Physical therapy and movement modalities, to my disappointment, have little scientific backing. I’d like to see, for example, the results of a 10 year study of people doing kettle bell. How many injured themselves to the point of physical disability? Whenever I see some exercise routine I think yeah, that’s great when it goes exactly how you think it should, but if you do that 100 times a week for 10 years you’re going to do it wrong at least once - what does that look like from an injury standpoint? That’s why I’d never do weighted squats or deadlifts again for example. IMO the whole workout industry is chalk full of people who are not well trained, doing exercises that aren’t well enough studied, but preaching like they’ve discovered the fitness promise land.
Was Kelly kidding when he said to put ice on a bee sting? I pulled the stinger out and put a cold bottle of beer on a bee sting once and that was excruciating, so I did the opposite: a damp hot towel and it felt better right away.
The generalisation made on this interview might be the reason why an average person cannot connect with the “experts”. Examples: Everybody has done yoga Everybody knows what a downward dog is, everybody listening knows someone 90 or a 100 yr. old.
Same critique, but for the opposite reason. It seemed the first 90 min were a tad basic/sales pitch for 'movement'. I suspect (hope?) the vast majority of the RR audience is already active. That said, I'm glad I stuck to the end. For someone that is already active, the 'gold' is in the final 30 minutes. (And if you are not already active: STOP WATCHING YOU TUBE and go for a walk/run).
Unpopular opinion but I found them smug and not particularly original. Hebert and Checkley were espousing this approach 100 years ago. And as for his claim as to have popularised the word 'mobility'...oh please. If their book is written like they talk, it could be half the size. Plus...his constantly interrupting or correcting her. Not impressed, much as I love Rich Roll!
This dudes poor wife. Fully waiting to talk and barely doing that as it is. Just stepping on all of her words. How do you get to 50 and not realize your awful to your wife during ever time you talk
This is a good basic talk, no major Aha moments. One thing I’m wondering is why Kelly can’t breathe through his nose and is mouth breathing and getting out of breath just talking? He doesn’t seem very healthy to me. Looks like untreated sleep apnea.
Squatting is a much more complex issue than is presented by Rich's guests. It is not a "cultural" issue solely but more of "affluence" or lack of. Just because an adult grew up and lives in India doesn't guarantee he can squat, though there is a greater chance that he will than his Western counterparts. If he grew up with lots of comfort and furniture at home he might have difficulty squatting (by the way, when do you see an elderly poor Hindu, or Salvadoran, squatting with arms lifted?). the problem with the lack of ability to squat, which we all access/learn as toddlers is that when we lose it the floor becomes less accessible safely (hindered ability to get down to and back up from the floor. That translates into a reduction in the balance, or equilibrium (=US elderly falls are of epidemic proportions. Not in poor third-world populations!!!). The elderly suffer greatly from this. It's not a fetish or even worthy of ridicule like you (Rich) demonstrate. It makes getting out of a chair more difficult or unattainable for the elderly, but PT attributes that to a lack of strength (I would love to further elaborate on this in person!)
As an "affluent" person with no "cultural" background in squatting, I'm sure I'm an outlier. But, the logic made sense, so I made it part of life, and now it's natural. Squatting at bus stops I think makes surrounding Americans uncomfortable, so that's not really a thing, but Americans do accept squatting down to talk to kids. I was just at a garage sale, and the little girl wanted me to buy a robot that made a scary sound. I asked if I'd be scared if I bought it...and on and on. Several minutes turned into half an hour involving clips on a bicycle trailer, whether fish need water in an aquarium, how wide was her scooter etc. Perhaps the difference was that I squatted at her level the whole time...and perhaps was her favorite tall person for a bit. Culture comes out in strange ways. Certainly, it could have been an ad for American grandparents to keep the ability to play with their grandkids.
Hey Rich, et al! I'm 87 and pain free! All I do is (aim for) whole food, plant-based nutrition, and exercise. That's it! I guess I'm lucky in that I've avoided major injuries - but I've done 20+ ultra marathons in the last 3 years and I intend to keep going. 100 ultras by my 100th birthday is my goal, which incentivises me to get out there and walk - with some running (avg 40-50k per week). I tell people, I'm on 87, on no meds, living my best life - and I'm probably as happy as I've ever been! And I want to share that!
I’m glad this is being addressed because I’m sick of all these 30 year old trainers who think they know how to get you fit but know nothing about aging. I’d love to see them going ham when they’re 50.
They will still go ham at 50 if they play their cards right and don’t kill themselves. Their secret is PEDs to rapidly accelerate and shorten rest/recovery cycles. It works incredibly well, however it’s a balance like everything else and some people get greedy, do too many drugs, and die. Others do it appropriately.
Along with the 24 year old "life coaches", right!😂
@@alwayslearning7672oh don't get me started on that front!
"i don't want to feel like crap and it'd be great to have a little more energy" YES!, thank you Rich.
This podcast has become one of my "musts" every week. I read Built to Move a couple months ago, and this vital and wonderful conversation has inspired me to read it again and carefully import the information into my life.
I'm 63 and just ran a marathon pain free. I also ran it in the same time as the marathon I ran when I was 51. I do restorative yoga with the Backmitra, breathing exercises and body weight exercises. Don't manage pain, get rid of it completely.
Almost everyone has gone through some trauma emotional or physical. This will eventually manifest into pain and stiffness. But you can get rid of it
Love this ❤
I think the best way to inspire teens who dislike sports or the gym is do introduce them to dance. It can be ballet, modern, jazz, tap, hip hop, you name it. There is something too prescriptive about gym, lifting, etc.Dancing with the music can be so uplifting, it releases emotions and it can be great for both strength and endurance aspect, not to mention coordination, mobility and musicality.
Rich Rolls really is an amazing human being! Great interview all around! ❤
Podcasts like these bring me such joy, keep em coming boss
Really enjoyed the topics covered here. Didn’t love that Kelly and Rich continually interrupted and talked over Juliet.
Cringed too many times over this. Also, Kelly talks too much.
Yes, it was very frustrating how often they interrupted and talked over Juliet.
No, I don't agree with this comment. They all had good energy & banter...
Juliet and Kelly are at the top of their game - a treasure chest of knowledge and wisdom and practices. I learned a ton from this conversation and their book ‘Built to Move’ and I’m sure you will too. To read more and visit the show notes visit bit.ly/richroll764
I really appreciate this conversation! I like the idea that we’re talking about functionality not aesthetic necessarily. This is an important shift. I’d love to know more about the movement school as a teacher, I’m always trying to include more movement in my students and my own routines.
I was a yoga teacher and kept injuring myself. I gave up running and lifting because I thought they were the more ‘aggressive’ sport. So I believed that was the issue since I always heard running is bad for your knees and if you don’t lift properly than you can have more injuries….which is totally true but I finally took out yoga just to see and now I can run, hike, lift …. Truth is you can injure yourself with yoga being your ‘specialized sport’ as well. Not being aligned well, going too hard or too far. I did so many forward bends which isn’t great for most people amongst other things like handstands, ugh. I don’t love it when yoga is thrown out there as a It heals all things movement. Listen to your body and you don’t need yoga specifically in order to stretch or gain more mobility. Sorry for the soapbox talk😅
So important to listen to your body. Also so many different types of yoga and some are very intense.
Agree. I used to practice ashtanga and never had more injuries. Now I use the less intense forms restoratively as a down day workout.
So good & such a useful conversation. I can't wait to get this book!
Lots of love for the conversation and the importance of listening to our bodies. I've found that stretching through poses and breathing is key for just about everything. That strength test for potential partners for their daughter though...What if she fell for someone differently abled? I'm sure they'd throw that lift-the-stone, tongue-in-cheek thing out the window, but I think it's fair to mention that to be able to move our bodies in the way that we want to, or even to have the tangible asipiration to do so, is a privilege. It's also not the true test of our mettle.
Love the Starrett’s! I was a proud member of that SF CrossFit in the Container and have been following them ever since 😊 Just purchased the book!
Rich, I love you further presenting to your audience, the increasing importance of mobility practice--an absolute essential for maintaining all movement/activities we desire during our life. I have the upmost respect and praise for the Starretts "popularizing'" and providing, for many years, all kinds of great training exercises for increasing one's mobility." Now, that being said, please consider looking into Dr. Gary Gray--for 50+ years, he's been considered the "Father of Function." The team at the Gray Institute are the greatest movement specialists in the world! Please consider having Dr Gray as a guest on your show!!
I'm a 56 year old male and was very active with cycling, running and hiking. I had a drunk driver knock me off my bicycle and spent 6 months in bed with shattered hip, groin tendons. I find yoga is allowing me to get some flexibility back in my hip and back. Thanks for the class
So, so, so, true, but so, so easy, and tempting, to want to 'specialize' in one's discipline. Thank you
Awesome interview! Gratitude to the 3 of you❣️👍
Yes! This was so legit and refreshing! As a health nut of now a certain age, I am so tired of all the young fitness trainers on youtube. So many of them know nothing. This should be required viewing for them.
First time watching your reviews. I was very captivated by your articulate descriptions. Very fun for my ears😊
Just finished Built to Move, and loved, loved, loved, this conversation. I was hoping Kelly would define 'native' range of motion. I also expected them to be standing for this interview lol.
Really enjoyed the conversation about motivating kids to exercise. It’s something that I struggle with and it would be amazing if there is an opportunity to do an episode on this topic only with experts. thanks
Great interview!! Thank you!!!!
How many times did Kelly cut off Juliet .... holy smokes.... let her complete a thought.
Only negative thing for me about this podcast.
It was so irritating. Yikes.
I could kinda see the tension between the two of them about this and I did find the interruption incredibly rude and obnoxious honestly
Get up off of your ASS and move your body🚶♀️🚶♂️🏃🏃♀️🚴🚴♀️🏊🏊♀️🥾⛰️🏄🏄♀️ 💪💪👍👍💯
I live that... It's very annoying AND disrespectful
No amt of pointing it out (,later) has any longterm effect.. 😢
Great episode (I'm not finished yet) I love the conversation around mobility and functional strength. As someone who grew up with posture issues and a body in chronic flight or fight mobility/ flexibility/range of motion have been my focus. I use to work construction jobs and trying to hold plasterboard above my head for longer than a few seconds was torture- wearing construction boots for 12-16hrs 6/7 days per week was also making things worse.
I finally joined a functional movement group when I moved to Northern Ireland and it's starting to make a difference, Prior to that I would do my own morning/daily mobility based on workouts/ people I was following online I then supplement those 2-3 90 minute classes with additional gym workouts and Spa/Cold plunge. It's funny though, doing mobility work in the gym gets you some funny looks and comments people assume it's all BS or woo woo!
Thank you for sharing. 🙌
At age 69 I had to watch a video to learn how to get up off the floor. I need to practice this. Seniors don't do the barefoot running unless you want to wreck your feet. Wrecked mine just overdoing it on the beach.
Surrounded and pummeled by insanity and ridiculousness
Politicians defending and supporting trump…
Vladimir Putin waging war…etc
To be able to tune in rich roll and listen to intelligent, decent, people is a true godsend
Rich! You should have RFK Jr and talk about what he would do to improve health and movement in schools:)
Main takeaway from 2 hrs & 39 mins, is in addition to your primary sport, Do YOGA & don't ice injuries.
So there's a name for it...the Old Man Balance test. It was demonstrated by crossing the leg that's getting the sock and shoe over the standing leg. I've always tried to do it without crossing one leg over the other. More balance and muscles engaged if you're putting shoes and socks on in a variation of Extended Hand-to-Big-Toe Pose (Utthita Hasta Padangustasana) albeit with a bent raised leg. I suppose the really flexible could put on their shoes with a totally straight raised leg.
Perhaps it's a spectrum:
1. Tie your shoe when someone else puts it on.
2. Pick up your shoe from the ground while seated and put in on.
3a). Put your shoe on while squatting (both feet on ground)
3b). Put your shoe while standing and bending down (both feet on ground)
4. Put your shoe on standing with crossed raised leg resting on standing leg (1 foot on ground)
5. Put your shoe on standing with raised leg bent and unsupported (1 foot on ground)
6. Put your shoe on standing with raised leg straight and unsupported (1 foot on ground)
7. Put your shoe on while hanging from gravity boots (0 feet on ground)
8. Put your shoe on during a back or forward flip (0 feet on ground)
Please bring Erwan.
Wow! This was hard to listen to and harder to watch. Kelly's constant cutting off of his partner Juliet was gross and unfortunate. Not only is it disrespectful, but, to be honest, she seems to be the more articulate of the two.
This is the first Rich Roll podcast I remember not finishing.
Rich: maybe you can redo this one in the near future with just Juliet.
They do that on every interview they do. It's part of the show they do. The information is priceless.
It was so irritating, and it only got worse as it went on. That man has issues.
12:00 absolute gold.
about how much you need to stay in bed to get the necessary amount of sleep. for some of us, staying in bed more than 8 hours results in sleep onset insomnia and poor quality of sleep in general. that's what i ended up with because I tried to get those 8 hours of sleep. it made my sleep worse.
Can you get Katy Bowman on?
Goose and gander are all the same in this philosophical world.
You should be dauntless in physical activity.
Never been this early
ok, this guy is totally into himself and that is not correct...he is not allowing his Juliet to speak up...
Came here to say this. It was cringey. I cannot believe the number of times he cut her off. I hope this is just how they are when being interviewed...
Everyone has heard so many different theories on what you should be doing with eating and exercise. It’s a hot mess. Physical therapy and movement modalities, to my disappointment, have little scientific backing. I’d like to see, for example, the results of a 10 year study of people doing kettle bell. How many injured themselves to the point of physical disability? Whenever I see some exercise routine I think yeah, that’s great when it goes exactly how you think it should, but if you do that 100 times a week for 10 years you’re going to do it wrong at least once - what does that look like from an injury standpoint? That’s why I’d never do weighted squats or deadlifts again for example. IMO the whole workout industry is chalk full of people who are not well trained, doing exercises that aren’t well enough studied, but preaching like they’ve discovered the fitness promise land.
Get into some sort of hip extension, work on your balance, work on your squat
Please let your wife talk once without interrupting her. It was incredibly rude and distracting to her points. Otherwise great interview.
47:22
Was Kelly kidding when he said to put ice on a bee sting? I pulled the stinger out and put a cold bottle of beer on a bee sting once and that was excruciating, so I did the opposite: a damp hot towel and it felt better right away.
You need to try gently flick or tweeze it out without squeezing out the venom in the little sack
When's the Bryan Johnson interview coming? :)
The generalisation made on this interview might be the reason why an average person cannot connect with the “experts”. Examples:
Everybody has done yoga
Everybody knows what a downward dog is, everybody listening knows someone 90 or a 100 yr. old.
Same critique, but for the opposite reason. It seemed the first 90 min were a tad basic/sales pitch for 'movement'. I suspect (hope?) the vast majority of the RR audience is already active. That said, I'm glad I stuck to the end. For someone that is already active, the 'gold' is in the final 30 minutes. (And if you are not already active: STOP WATCHING YOU TUBE and go for a walk/run).
Okay, please settle the controversy. Best proxy for longevity; vo2 max or leg strength.
No bench press in the home gym???? WTH???
I'm muture" Kelly 😂
the two guys often talked over the woman. it was annoying.
Unpopular opinion but I found them smug and not particularly original. Hebert and Checkley were espousing this approach 100 years ago. And as for his claim as to have popularised the word 'mobility'...oh please. If their book is written like they talk, it could be half the size. Plus...his constantly interrupting or correcting her. Not impressed, much as I love Rich Roll!
This dudes poor wife. Fully waiting to talk and barely doing that as it is. Just stepping on all of her words. How do you get to 50 and not realize your awful to your wife during ever time you talk
5
"Sport is the laboratory"
If that is true, why wont my Grandma move my weight upstairs?
My grandma said she would not move my barbells to the attic. So I'm having her work on my transmission.
@@Onnitfan1 S.M.
@@pavanatanaya you are right!!! Very good!
Ohhhhhh! I hope Rich got some physical therapy treatment from Kelly!!!!
This is a good basic talk, no major Aha moments. One thing I’m wondering is why Kelly can’t breathe through his nose and is mouth breathing and getting out of breath just talking? He doesn’t seem very healthy to me. Looks like untreated sleep apnea.
Man, just noticed this. He’s taking massive breaths through his mouth between sentences
Squatting is a much more complex issue than is presented by Rich's guests. It is not a "cultural" issue solely but more of "affluence" or lack of. Just because an adult grew up and lives in India doesn't guarantee he can squat, though there is a greater chance that he will than his Western counterparts. If he grew up with lots of comfort and furniture at home he might have difficulty squatting (by the way, when do you see an elderly poor Hindu, or Salvadoran, squatting with arms lifted?). the problem with the lack of ability to squat, which we all access/learn as toddlers is that when we lose it the floor becomes less accessible safely (hindered ability to get down to and back up from the floor. That translates into a reduction in the balance, or equilibrium (=US elderly falls are of epidemic proportions. Not in poor third-world populations!!!). The elderly suffer greatly from this. It's not a fetish or even worthy of ridicule like you (Rich) demonstrate. It makes getting out of a chair more difficult or unattainable for the elderly, but PT attributes that to a lack of strength (I would love to further elaborate on this in person!)
As an "affluent" person with no "cultural" background in squatting, I'm sure I'm an outlier. But, the logic made sense, so I made it part of life, and now it's natural. Squatting at bus stops I think makes surrounding Americans uncomfortable, so that's not really a thing, but Americans do accept squatting down to talk to kids.
I was just at a garage sale, and the little girl wanted me to buy a robot that made a scary sound. I asked if I'd be scared if I bought it...and on and on. Several minutes turned into half an hour involving clips on a bicycle trailer, whether fish need water in an aquarium, how wide was her scooter etc. Perhaps the difference was that I squatted at her level the whole time...and perhaps was her favorite tall person for a bit. Culture comes out in strange ways. Certainly, it could have been an ad for American grandparents to keep the ability to play with their grandkids.
The first 20 minutes were a waste of time
Extreme durability with fighting ,will land in prison.
Tyoo many interruptions. Very chaotic. I gave up listening😅.