Destructive testing and investigation, I'm digging it to the max. First Harley I drove 46 years ago was a 39 flathead, it had ABS, (antique brake system), cables and rods, damnn how things change. I look foward to your videos, keep it going man
Definitely good information John!! Harley should have had that as part of their normal 5000 or 10,000 mile maintenance intervals like they do for other fluids. I should not have to ask to have it done. Funny thing is all the times I brought it in, none of the service writers recommended it. Over this winter I told them to flush the brake fluid.
I rode H-D from '82 to '08. After getting a new business up and running, I got back into motorcycling. This time I bought an Indian Chieftain, I LOVE IT! Never going back.
But the thing HD isn’t talking about is how Dot 4 needs to be changed more often than dot 3 as it soaks up moisture faster than dot 3. But then again they call for every 2 years which is less than pretty much any other schedule I’ve seen before.
Actually no. The Yamaha FJR1300 has the same factory recommended 2year interval. Some long distance riders suggest changing it annually. If you install speedbleeders, it's sooo much work.
With the cost of Hydraulic units VS the cost of a small bottle of DOT 4 I’m surprised that this is even a problem among HD owners. Most owners I know of are religious with their maintenance schedules, whether performed at a dealer, Indy shop or at home. Thanks for showing us this sludgy unit, now I don’t feel as bad when I flush my breaks every season.
My HCU failed on my 2015 Road King 3 months after delivery, on the front brake. Replaced under warranty and great ever since. Made a horrible noise when braking, particularly at low speeds. Nice to see how it all goes together, now I have a better idea.
Thanks for the update John. Doesn’t affect any of my rides. Had to laugh at the large channel locks. Being a surface mechanic in the mines here in PA those are one of my averaged sized tools in my service truck...lol!
NHTSA Campaign Number: 18V076000: "ODI analyzed the information contained in both IR responses and concluded that motorcycles manufactured during Model Years (MY) 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 were failing at a rate greater than their peers. Based on this analysis and the brake fluid study conducted by Harley Davidson, a group of motorcycles was identified that were potentially affected by the instability of the original brake fluid. 2008 marked the introduction of ABS on Harley Davidson motorcycles and a change in the Dow 460 brake fluid used in the 2012 MY (Model Year) vehicles provided the bases for the scope of the affected population." Note the word "instability". HD used cheap, inferior, garbage brake fluid... and blames the customers and makes them pay.
I feel like Harley PR missed the mark by not looking into, promoting content creators like you. If it wasn't for the uproar they would not have received those bikes and way to give long time HOG members the shaft. Personally, it was very upsetting seeing a brand new bike spray painted. On topic, thanks for the info, enjoy your content.
Hey John, Josh from Canberra Harley in Australia. I gotta say, this recall threw a curveball at me when it first came out. One of my first experiences with it was a 2008 Vrod special where the problem arised after i did the fluid flush. In the end when i roadtested the bike, not only was the lever collapsing to the bar, as soon as i had an abs event it would only lock up the right hand caliper in the front causing the bars to slam full lock and almost a wreck! In the end, new MC and HCU for the customer with the updated fluid.
Damn , Harley is going to have to seriously restock it's module inventory. I'm guessing a lot of owners wish they had of took the time to flush the brake system every two riding seasons. Which reminds me...even though my 2007 has no ABS, it is time. Thanks John great content.
Hey John! I’ve really enjoyed your videos and the behind the curtain look at “the day in the life of a Harley Mechanic”. I’m close to retiring from the military (not too far away from you, I might add) and would like to know about your journey in becoming a Harley Mechanic. How’d you get into it and what training did you receive prior to getting hired? Basically, how’d you get started? Thanks for videos and keep them coming. Ride Safe!
I'm currently going through this as well. My 2010 ultra developed a hard hand brake. I took it to Alligator Alley HD to flush but nothing. I have to replace the abs unit. Over 700!
Great job on the video, yes our manual states every two years replace the brake fluid, people blow it off and now Harley has to pay? You should show the fluid moisture tester or a few tricks to get any water out, like engaging your brakes for a long period of time. Anyway keep the vids coming!
hey John, am I correct in thinking the "freeze up" would set in while the bike is parked or laid up, or can it occur while riding? I'm guessing its some sort of internal corrosion inside the unit????
I think Harley did a voluntary recall, as a way to drum up business. It gets people to bring in their bike, and look at new models, or have other work done. Smart. Just my opinion.
Hello John , Thanks for the great videos . Can you tell me if synthetic DOT 4 is similar to silicone DOT 5 and does it damage paint . Can I use Synthetic DOT 4 in my 1981 shovelhead ? I know that you cant mix them . Thank You .
cool eccentric on the motor pulsing the brakes. always cool to understand the way something works so you can maybe resolve a recurring problem instead of being a glorified parts changer like so many so called mechanic Technicians. i'm guessing there is a failsafe built in in case you lose your 12vdc and still need brakes.
I just purchased my 1st Harley, and the guy I bought it from gave me the receipt for new tires,Battery,Belt and brakes pads and systems flush. And I was wondering why flush the system??? Now I know, thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for the informative video, John! Is there any difference between the recalled bikes' HCU and the newer bikes? Kinda curious why the MOCO changed its recommended brake fluid. I see a lot of brake service in your future lol Don't get me wrong, other manufacturers have had similar issues with ABS for the past 20 years so it's not uncommon.
I bought a 2008 ultra about a year ago and now I have it back to the dealership for the fourth time due to rear brake failure. first they said abs module, second was a new rear master cylinder, 3rd was it just needed a good brake bleed an now we are on the fourth trip back and i have to wait a week until they can look at it. the previous owner had every service done at the same dealership. pretty sure they are just throwing parts at it until the problem goes away, any help would be great.
Don't really get it why HD would be responsible for a recall when the owners manual states to change every 2 years? If you don't want to change it (you have to be very careful flushing ABS at home not to introduce air into the system) then spend 10 bucks on a brake fluid tester and test it to see if it even needs done yet. My bike is 4 years old and still tests good (I am going to flush them this winter anyway).... Big dirty DOT4 thumbs up John!!
I have a 2011 FLHTK ROOTBEER FLOAT and my brake lever is getting harder and harder to squeeze. Can the ABS pump/module be rebuilt? Are there any companies that offer a service if so. Even if I buy a new one I’d like to service the one I have for a spare or resale. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated thanks.
And my guess is they still have not fully dealt with the issue of ABS failure? Whether it is bean counter or engineer or supplier, the callous way this company has dealt with that issue is a disgrace. The very thought of ABS failure that could leave you without any brake at all while at speed is what prevents me from getting a motor company product.
Great video. I've got a couple of questions. Why aren't the "newer" bikes covered in the recall? (I've got a '16 RGU with 45k miles) Does the hydraulic clutch need to be flushed also? As far as I know it runs the same fluid as the brakes.
I have a 2012 Heritage and it doesn't have ABS. Hell, the 08 Heritage I had didn't have ABS either...but my buddy sent me a link to an article about this freaking out because he thought my bike was gonna fall apart.
Hey John......Just my thoughts here ...... But First ; ... Awesome Vid and it made me laugh. , Ok ..... I saw the condition of the two shuttle spools you and Antonio pulled out of the brake's pulser-module. My first inkling of reason was...... Someone either, a): Put DOT3 into a DOT4 brake system ..... but then, b): Someone at the factory used the way-wrong elastomer onto the shuttles and that caused the recall. ( kinda like mixing Viton instead of EPDM with brake fluid .... etc, etc.....Seals swelled and got compression-set and locked up tight...... no ABS ....).So I'm gonna fly with the wrong o-rings on this one. Stay safe and Ride on W
Only time I’ve ever seen a wobble, there was a maintenance issue at hand. Loose spikes, bad/loose steering head bearings, bad tires, low tire pressure, you get the idea. Take care of your bike, and your bike will take care of you. I say if you want a breakout, go for it! Then make sure you take care of it!
As usual,John is CORRECT, I've never seen a "death wobble" on a properly maintained bike! Been at a dealer since 1995 and in the Service Dept since 2001'
chris warner I have seen it, but only when a bike is heavily overloaded. Back in 2010 had a customer on his way to Sturgis. Cvo bagger had about 75 lbs in each saddle bag, completely stuffed tour pak, with an extra large tbags setup for on top of the tour pak. Him and his wife were bigger, they had no problem with the weight. My 150lbs was not nearly enough to keep the front end down. Has to almost completely unload the bike because it would wobble very badly, I couldn't control it. Once it was at a normal load it was fine.
All motorcycles have the potential for this issue. There's videos on RUclips that shows lots of modern bikes in death wobbles.! ruclips.net/video/fvsDIq3WwVA/видео.html
I am wondering if the actuator motor is working, why not use brake clean and air pressure to clear the passages in the module. It seems like a very simple device with not much to go wrong. Problem is even if that fixed it most shops would rely on that to fix the problem. # 1 they wouldn't be able to sell an expensive replacement and #2 the wouldn't take the exposure to law suits if the fix didn't work long term. Also just for the record DOT 4 is highly hygroscopic meaning it attracts and hold moisture from the air. Hence the reason to flush frequently. Harley used run DOT which is a better fluid, but changed all bikes to DOT 4 when they released their first anti-locks. The reason given was the DOT 3 didn't offer enough compression resistance for the Anti-Locks would not work effectively....
Yea man. No worries, it’s coming. As spring rolls in, I’ll have less time to film while working. Kinda saving content out of the shop for when I can’t be “in the shop.” I have some ideas, though.
Why would it stop at 2011? What would change after 2011?..... My 14 SG has ABS so one should expect to still flush them per manual correct? It would seem this could be a never ending expansion as models age. Dunno.... Just sayin.
We sent quite a few ABS units back to HD about a year ago. I THINK through their testing they figured it takes that long for fluid to become that bad. With new knowledge, people will/should know the problems and start getting their fluid flushed. Remember, the problem still could happen, HD just won’t foot the bill.
John thanks for doing these videos, much appreciated. Question have you heard of the transmission oil transfer problem? I had not until last night I was going over my 17 R/G for a weekend trip and found my transmission dipstick DRY!! Where did it go? Well into the primary case. Evidently Harley knows about the problem but is NOT doing anything as far as notifying owners of the issue. Even the NEW 2018s have the issue. From what i have read a bad seal between the two cases and vacume in the primary are to blame. Can you shed some light? Please, and thanks.
Sounds like you know what’s up. Thing is, it’s so isolated, HD can’t really “let everyone know.” It’s a transfer of a few ounces, the difference between oil on your trans dipstick vs dry dipstick is about 6 ounces. So you’re transmission isn’t gonna blow up, but it does need to be fixed. People tend to over react, so if HD publicly said anything every M8 wonder would be sitting at the dealership waiting for an instant fix. For example, while I know about it. I’ve still never seen it... They want the correct amount of fluids put in (because the transmission could have just been under filled during a service or assembly), and rechecked at 1k miles to confirm an issue. At that point under warranty the crankcase seal will be changed out. Don’t forget, this is the same company that just dropped 30 million bucks on a brake fluid flush for decade old bikes just because people hadn’t properly maintained their ride. They’ll take care of it, no worries!
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. That is good to know that the tranny is ok. Even with a drop beyond the dipstick. I think I will get one of those speedy dipsticks for the tranny from P/A catalog, making for an easier check. I'm glad that I have all synthetics in my bike. Not real crazy of the idea of mixing different types. Thanks again!!
The number of accidents can be found in some of the articles on the subject. This is a problem that stems from lack of maintenance. Plain and simple. Owners constantly decline brake fluid flushes. It’s the most common suggested, yet denied service i see in a shop. It’s why out of 30 videos, I’ve done 3 on brake systems. 10% of my videos thus far have been dedicated to educating people about the importance of brakes. All bikes need brake fluid flushes, not just HD...
I just Paid to have my dealer flush the brakes on my new to me 15 SGS... I doubt they had the new formula brake juice two weeks ago.. If I have to add fluid in the next two years.. I guess I best not mix the new formula with the old... What are your thoughts on that John?
There’s no reason to add fluid. There’s enough in the system to account for pad wear. Once you change pads, you’re back to full in the reservoir. They are both Dot 4 though. So in THEORY it wouldn’t matter. I repeat in theory.
Mine failed after a brake job with front rotor replacement and flush. Previous flush done 2 years before when brakes done. Shop reflashed the unit and called it good. Happened last month. Missed the free recall. Damn
John Maxwell Good point. I see the guys pretty regular so I'm sure they'll hook me up somewhere. Looking to get some head work done and they usually treat me right. Good video.
I'm looking at the new Street bob and the 2017 street bob.. Not sure I like the new speedo thingy compared to the old one. Yes, No, Yes, No...Arg...Not sure what to pick.. But the 2018 also have much better grunt,power and so on.
I am tossed between the 2018 Indian Chieftain and the 2018 Harley Street Glide. Right now, i am leaving towards the Indian Chieftain, i like the look far more.
Hi John I have a question I have a 2017 road King I had a stage 1 up grade done on it hi flow air cleaner and rush big Louie muffler's screaming eagle tuner and now it idles higher instead of 850 it now idles around 950 and it.seems to have a little more vibration now than it did is that normal ?
It’s only supposed to idle as low as 850 when I gets really hot, which I don’t like anyway. They seem to want to fall on their face sometimes once you start going again. So a higher idle is ok. It’s supposed to idle between 950 and 1050 during operating temps. As far as vibration, you may have something touching the frame. An exhaust clamp, head pipe at right riser floorboard are some that I see often.
Not sure why anyone would expect Harley to cover a 7-10 year old part...especially if they haven't bothered to maintain it once over that period. Doesn't even make sense to me that Harley should have to pay for the fluid. People are nuts. Brakes can be really important. Forget the silly loud muffler and save a few bucks to ensure the friggin brakes work. There are no "do overs" in the real world.
My clutch is on recall. Repair is in on a 5-8 week away for repairs..Does anyone know what the law is if I can't get use my bike? Do I still need to make monthly payment if I can't enjoy usage. This is my second bike from HD and have perfect payment history!
Should a person be concerned about primary h d auto chain adjuster over tightening the chain and causing other problems some people recommend after market adjuster do a better job i have a 2017 heritage
I think the concern about the auto tensioner comes from folks that are used to the enormous amount of "slop" found in the manual adjusters. I've never attributed a problem to the chain tensioner.
I feel the same way about my Dyna BUT there should have been 2 recalls on our beloved Dynas too. 1. The stock cam chain shoes definitely should have been a recall. 2. The lack of chassis stabilizers should have been a recall. I fixed these MAJOR flaws on my own dime and my own time. But I shouldnt have had to, and thats why I dont trust the MOCO to make good on future mistakes....and part of why I have no interest in starting over with a new bike.
Yes. Another video from John Maxwell (Thumbs up) Keep up the good work John. Cruiser John I think you killed the control thingy mado thingy :-) Just say Antonio did it :-)
My hopped up FXRS will run coast to coast with just about any Harley made... with ZERO of the problems of today’s $35,000 dollar bikes.... if only Harley made a modern FXR......
I honestly don't know if they do or don't. HD is no doubt top dog, at over 50% of bikes sold every year goes to HD. Regardless of opinion, that makes them top dog. When that many bikes are on the road, and a recall occurs, it's big news. If another manufacture has a recall, how many bikes are under that recall? 10K? 20K? that's not big news. HD has a recall, that makes 100K+ bikes effected by the recall. That's big news. Most of them, are actually not a huge deal. For example, the oil cooling clamp for 2017 was made out like a big deal. 3 bikes were confirmed to be a problem. A recall happened, I never saw one myself. We literally checked 100s of bikes. It's just one of those quality control things that has to happen, though.
Hey John great video. I have a 17 FLHTCU do I have to take to dealer to bleed brakes. My dealer told me they have to hook up to a computer to energize the ABS unit, any truth to that? Thanks.
Yea. I think I mention it in better detail in the video linked in the description. It’s been awhile since I put that video out. Some good info in there, though.
Yea man. Rereading my own response I’m not sure if it reads the way I meant. Yes there is truth to it, and the computer is needed. I think I explain what the computer does in the other video. Much easier than typing it all!
so what about extended warranty? and what if you just got the bike like less than a year ago and don't know but the sales guy said "it was all done at the dealer" how do you find that out???
Extended warranty used to cover the unit, but with new information they may stop based on “lack of maintenance.” I remember your situation, but don’t get me in the middle of a dealer squabble!!! It does suck how you got hit. This guy bought privately, and was told we had kept up with everything. In actuality, we haven’t seen this bike for 6 years....
From the Reaper's Chair you can go to your local H-D dealer and ask the service department for a copy of any warranty service done to your bike. It doesn't matter what dealer you go to because if it was done and recorded to h-dnet.com it'll show up. I've done this at my dealer for my customers.
Hey John, which seat would you recommend for my Iron? (Occasional 2-up as well.) 1. Mustang Revere Journey - -www.mustangseats.com/Product/74100/ 2. Mustang Fastback - www.mustangseats.com/Product/76145/ Thanks for the input!
To properly flush brake fluid on an ABS system, the solenoids must be energized to rid the unit of any fluid/air. HD says this is the way it must be done. Every time I do a flush on an ABS system, I use the computer. That way I can be 100% sure that it's been done correctly. I'm not one to play around with brakes, but it's up to you how you want to do it.
Oh, I almost forgot. Can you comment on why, when the ABS fails, the system doesn't default to non-ABS brakes? In other words, have you ever heard of any vehicle's ABS failing and the vehicles not having any brakes at all, as in the case of that fellow's Road King in your video?
Ha! Ha! Not only is it game over, but that 18-wheeler could be the last thing going through your mind as your brains are splattered all over the road. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so correct me if I'm misunderstanding this whole ABS thing H-D is calling a "maintenance issue". As it is right now, my understanding of what will happen if my bike's ABS fails is the ABS lamp will NOT flash or remain on continuously when the ABS is NOT operating. Well, if that's the case, H-D needs to amend their service literature because MY service manual states not only will the ABS lamp flash or remain on continuously when the ABS is not operating, the standard brake system will be operational. That just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read, right?
Stephen that is the case in an electrical fault. In the even of a mechanical fault such as this issue, there is no electrical warning. It’s no different than a brake line becoming smashed. Brakes just fail in that scenario. No way for the electrical system to know that.
Well, that's not very reassuring. Either H-D engineers didn't think this through or they did think it through and decided the benefits of designing and implementing a fail-safe weren't worth the costs which, in my opinion, borders on criminal or, excuse my bluntness, they're a bunch of morons. Imagine Boeing designing an airplane that wouldn't alert the pilot that there was a mechanical failure in the landing gear. Maybe that's not the best analogy, but you catch my drift. Anyway, I really like your videos. You should be in Hollywood directing movies instead of laboring in a H-D service department!
Haha. They aren’t that good! Thing is about the warning of brakes, though. There is no warning on a non abs model of brake failure either. That’s why you pay extra for a full service and flush brake fluid at scheduled intervals. Inspecting the brake system visually and keeping the fluid fresh decreases the chances of a problem. It’s no different than decades and decades worth of brake systems in both auto and power sports industries.
While that is a fairly standard practice for some, the downside to that is that fluid breaks down over time, while brakes get worn down over miles. The two don’t always go together. That’s why HD recommends checking the fluid with a tool during services. The 2 year mark is really for the guy that somehow doesn’t make it 5k miles in 2 years!
Consider yourself lucky you dont work in the automotive industry. My recalls come 2-6 at a time usually Fridays just as they are going home in Europe. Bastards!
Have you forgotten that the problem stems from owners not flushing their own brake systems? I think it’s pretty stand up that HD paid a fortune to do maintenance on 10 year old bikes that the owners should have been doing...
John ty for sharing ......hoping to get that b/o 18 anniversary in march man....thanks for recall update i had friends tell me about it and now i know Mr. Maxwell
I’ve had a ton of people asking me about models that aren’t in question, so I definitely wanted to put some info out on it. Can’t wait for you to get that bad ass bike!
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Destructive testing and investigation, I'm digging it to the max. First Harley I drove 46 years ago was a 39 flathead, it had ABS, (antique brake system), cables and rods, damnn how things change. I look foward to your videos, keep it going man
Haha. I think the flatheads version ABS brakes worked better than this bike. At least at the beginning of the video! Thanks for the support!
Definitely good information John!! Harley should have had that as part of their normal 5000 or 10,000 mile maintenance intervals like they do for other fluids. I should not have to ask to have it done. Funny thing is all the times I brought it in, none of the service writers recommended it. Over this winter I told them to flush the brake fluid.
Brake fluid (and hydraulic clutch) should be changed by time intervals, not mileage intervals.
You have the most humble, laid back, and professional videos. Love the creative little transitions you’ve come up with. Keep ‘em coming!
Thanks man! Most of the transitions I’ve seen elsewhere, a handful are ones I legit came up with, though. More videos definitely incoming!
I rode H-D from '82 to '08. After getting a new business up and running, I got back into motorcycling. This time I bought an Indian Chieftain, I LOVE IT! Never going back.
But the thing HD isn’t talking about is how Dot 4 needs to be changed more often than dot 3 as it soaks up moisture faster than dot 3. But then again they call for every 2 years which is less than pretty much any other schedule I’ve seen before.
Actually no. The Yamaha FJR1300 has the same factory recommended 2year interval. Some long distance riders suggest changing it annually.
If you install speedbleeders, it's sooo much work.
With the cost of Hydraulic units VS the cost of a small bottle of DOT 4 I’m surprised that this is even a problem among HD owners. Most owners I know of are religious with their maintenance schedules, whether performed at a dealer, Indy shop or at home. Thanks for showing us this sludgy unit, now I don’t feel as bad when I flush my breaks every season.
Installing speedbleeders really helps that make it a simple, one man job.
Once again great video brother love what you do for the riding community John !
Thanks man, glad it’s helping folks out!
My HCU failed on my 2015 Road King 3 months after delivery, on the front brake. Replaced under warranty and great ever since. Made a horrible noise when braking, particularly at low speeds. Nice to see how it all goes together, now I have a better idea.
Used large channel lock pliers to loosen oil&fuel filters on large forklifts&trucks !
matalize that block may loosen up, if so go lock up the front and rear brakes to activate abs chatter then do your fluid change bleed
These videos are so dope! We all have that guy at work who has those "dumb" tools that end up getting you out of a pinch ha ha
It’s true. Very true!
Guess I'll be making an appointment locally for my 08 street glide. I had no clue about the recall thanks for posting.
Glad it helped you out!
Thanks for the update John. Doesn’t affect any of my rides. Had to laugh at the large channel locks. Being a surface mechanic in the mines here in PA those are one of my averaged sized tools in my service truck...lol!
NHTSA Campaign Number: 18V076000:
"ODI analyzed the information contained in both IR responses and concluded that motorcycles manufactured during Model Years (MY) 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 were failing at a rate greater than their peers. Based on this analysis and the brake fluid study conducted by Harley Davidson, a group of motorcycles was identified that were potentially affected by the instability of the original brake fluid. 2008 marked the introduction of ABS on Harley Davidson motorcycles and a change in the Dow 460 brake fluid used in the 2012 MY (Model Year) vehicles provided the bases for the scope of the affected population."
Note the word "instability". HD used cheap, inferior, garbage brake fluid... and blames the customers and makes them pay.
I feel like Harley PR missed the mark by not looking into, promoting content creators like you. If it wasn't for the uproar they would not have received those bikes and way to give long time HOG members the shaft. Personally, it was very upsetting seeing a brand new bike spray painted. On topic, thanks for the info, enjoy your content.
Harley definitely missed the mark with that. Hopefully their marketing will get it together at some point.
Great video! Glad this doesn't affect any of my bikes...
Hey John, Josh from Canberra Harley in Australia. I gotta say, this recall threw a curveball at me when it first came out. One of my first experiences with it was a 2008 Vrod special where the problem arised after i did the fluid flush. In the end when i roadtested the bike, not only was the lever collapsing to the bar, as soon as i had an abs event it would only lock up the right hand caliper in the front causing the bars to slam full lock and almost a wreck! In the end, new MC and HCU for the customer with the updated fluid.
Weird. I had an 08 VRod do the same thing! Minus the only 1 caliper working up front. Definite lever collapse, though!
Damn , Harley is going to have to seriously restock it's module inventory. I'm guessing a lot of owners wish they had of took the time to flush the brake system every two riding seasons. Which reminds me...even though my 2007 has no ABS, it is time. Thanks John great content.
Another Great Video. When I do my next service I'll make sure to check on this for my 17 S.G.S.
They make a tool to check the moisture in the brake system. 20 bucks I think. Well worth it!
Love the videos John, picked up a older Electra Glide few months back, lovin the hell out of it!
Awesome!
@JohnMaxwell your sound effects are on point!!
Hey John! I’ve really enjoyed your videos and the behind the curtain look at “the day in the life of a Harley Mechanic”. I’m close to retiring from the military (not too far away from you, I might add) and would like to know about your journey in becoming a Harley Mechanic. How’d you get into it and what training did you receive prior to getting hired? Basically, how’d you get started? Thanks for videos and keep them coming. Ride Safe!
do you have a few weeks to wait for an answer? this is an extremely popular question, and I will likely be making a video in a few weeks.
No problem. I look forward to it. Thanks in advance.
I'm currently going through this as well. My 2010 ultra developed a hard hand brake. I took it to Alligator Alley HD to flush but nothing. I have to replace the abs unit. Over 700!
Great job on the video, yes our manual states every two years replace the brake fluid, people blow it off and now Harley has to pay? You should show the fluid moisture tester or a few tricks to get any water out, like engaging your brakes for a long period of time. Anyway keep the vids coming!
I have shown it before. I didn’t want to repeat a video I just shot 3 months ago entirely.
Great video, where’s your face shield? Cut off wheels will come apart and sometimes end up in your face! Keep the videos coming John, be safe.
hey John, am I correct in thinking the "freeze up" would set in while the bike is parked or laid up, or can it occur while riding? I'm guessing its some sort of internal corrosion inside the unit????
Makes you wonder why they did away with the Hydraulic clutch?
LoL Sir Vape a lot in the back ground!! Dang funny
I think Harley did a voluntary recall, as a way to drum up business. It gets people to bring in their bike, and look at new models, or have other work done. Smart.
Just my opinion.
Can I just dump my ABS unit and run traditional lines from lever to calliper and get some sort of dongle for the panel Light? 2016 Street Bob...
I love a good mechanical autopsy .. !! Thanks John.
Yea man. Wish I’d been able to slice that joker in half. My cutting tools are minimal, though. Not a common thing to do in our shop!
Maybe the Easter Bunny will bring you a metal cutting bandsaw?
Hello John , Thanks for the great videos . Can you tell me if synthetic DOT 4 is similar to silicone DOT 5 and does it damage paint . Can I use Synthetic DOT 4 in my 1981 shovelhead ? I know that you cant mix them . Thank You .
cool eccentric on the motor pulsing the brakes. always cool to understand the way something works so you can maybe resolve a recurring problem instead of being a glorified parts changer like so many so called mechanic Technicians. i'm guessing there is a failsafe built in in case you lose your 12vdc and still need brakes.
Sure. It's called a brake system. Losing 12 volt power should not prevent the brakes from working.
I just purchased my 1st Harley, and the guy I bought it from gave me the receipt for new tires,Battery,Belt and brakes pads and systems flush. And I was wondering why flush the system??? Now I know, thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for the informative video, John!
Is there any difference between the recalled bikes' HCU and the newer bikes? Kinda curious why the MOCO changed its recommended brake fluid. I see a lot of brake service in your future lol
Don't get me wrong, other manufacturers have had similar issues with ABS for the past 20 years so it's not uncommon.
It is a different unit now, the “reflex” system uses a different abs unit. I failed to mention the new brake fluid has a higher boiling point.
I bought a 2008 ultra about a year ago and now I have it back to the dealership for the fourth time due to rear brake failure. first they said abs module, second was a new rear master cylinder, 3rd was it just needed a good brake bleed an now we are on the fourth trip back and i have to wait a week until they can look at it. the previous owner had every service done at the same dealership. pretty sure they are just throwing parts at it until the problem goes away, any help would be great.
Don't really get it why HD would be responsible for a recall when the owners manual states to change every 2 years? If you don't want to change it (you have to be very careful flushing ABS at home not to introduce air into the system) then spend 10 bucks on a brake fluid tester and test it to see if it even needs done yet. My bike is 4 years old and still tests good (I am going to flush them this winter anyway).... Big dirty DOT4 thumbs up John!!
Great video...do you have a video on taking one's bike out of storage since riding season up in the cold north is upon us?
I was totally supposed to do that...hmmm. Seems I need to do some filming!
I have a 2011 FLHTK ROOTBEER FLOAT and my brake lever is getting harder and harder to squeeze. Can the ABS pump/module be rebuilt? Are there any companies that offer a service if so. Even if I buy a new one I’d like to service the one I have for a spare or resale. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated thanks.
Time for my 09 Ultra with ABS to visit local HD store.....thanks John 👍👍
Yea man!
John, when looking at the Harley site at the recalls, how do you know if the recall work has been done?
Has this abs recall been extended to 2016 vrods with abs?.....
And my guess is they still have not fully dealt with the issue of ABS failure? Whether it is bean counter or engineer or supplier, the callous way this company has dealt with that issue is a disgrace. The very thought of ABS failure that could leave you without any brake at all while at speed is what prevents me from getting a motor company product.
Like the fluid dispenser bottler. Where can I get one?
Hi John, can you tell me if 2020 superlow 1200t have linked brakes??
Thanks John!! Happy V. Day to you and your’s .... Peace Brother....
Looks like your page is blowing up. Cool cool. What you using for camera, edit software, etc.
I use a canon 80d and Final Cut Pro. Other than the computer, everything is linked in my description
Hi John. Can ABS be added to a new 2018 Road King that didn't come from the factory with it?
Great video. I've got a couple of questions. Why aren't the "newer" bikes covered in the recall? (I've got a '16 RGU with 45k miles) Does the hydraulic clutch need to be flushed also? As far as I know it runs the same fluid as the brakes.
2016 is covered in the nominal 2 year window.
I have a 2012 Heritage and it doesn't have ABS. Hell, the 08 Heritage I had didn't have ABS either...but my buddy sent me a link to an article about this freaking out because he thought my bike was gonna fall apart.
You are the man, brother!
so the recall was actually replacing the brake fluid with a updated version that does not ruin the controller
I better check my tool box, they look like my Diamond groove joint pliers. I don't need for my Road King , but you never know.
Hey John......Just my thoughts here ...... But First ; ... Awesome Vid and it made me laugh. , Ok ..... I saw the condition of the two shuttle spools you and Antonio pulled out of the brake's pulser-module.
My first inkling of reason was...... Someone either, a): Put DOT3 into a DOT4 brake system ..... but then, b): Someone at the factory used the way-wrong elastomer onto the shuttles and that caused the recall. ( kinda like mixing Viton instead of EPDM with brake fluid .... etc, etc.....Seals swelled and got compression-set and locked up tight...... no ABS ....).So I'm gonna fly with the wrong o-rings on this one.
Stay safe and Ride on
W
Love you too Johnny
Thanks for the good information
Also why can’t they put a filter to circulate and take out the particles like a transmission
Because gear oil in a manual transmission doesn't circulate. You could install a magnetic drain plug.
John, what’s your opinion on HD death wobble? I’m looking to get the breakout this year. Great video, thanks!
Only time I’ve ever seen a wobble, there was a maintenance issue at hand. Loose spikes, bad/loose steering head bearings, bad tires, low tire pressure, you get the idea. Take care of your bike, and your bike will take care of you. I say if you want a breakout, go for it! Then make sure you take care of it!
John Maxwell I always called it active cornering, loose spokes.
As usual,John is CORRECT, I've never seen a "death wobble" on a properly maintained bike! Been at a dealer since 1995 and in the Service Dept since 2001'
chris warner I have seen it, but only when a bike is heavily overloaded. Back in 2010 had a customer on his way to Sturgis. Cvo bagger had about 75 lbs in each saddle bag, completely stuffed tour pak, with an extra large tbags setup for on top of the tour pak. Him and his wife were bigger, they had no problem with the weight. My 150lbs was not nearly enough to keep the front end down. Has to almost completely unload the bike because it would wobble very badly, I couldn't control it. Once it was at a normal load it was fine.
All motorcycles have the potential for this issue. There's videos on RUclips that shows lots of modern bikes in death wobbles.! ruclips.net/video/fvsDIq3WwVA/видео.html
I am wondering if the actuator motor is working, why not use brake clean and air pressure to clear the passages in the module. It seems like a very simple device with not much to go wrong. Problem is even if that fixed it most shops would rely on that to fix the problem. # 1 they wouldn't be able to sell an expensive replacement and #2 the wouldn't take the exposure to law suits if the fix didn't work long term.
Also just for the record DOT 4 is highly hygroscopic meaning it attracts and hold moisture from the air. Hence the reason to flush frequently. Harley used run DOT which is a better fluid, but changed all bikes to DOT 4 when they released their first anti-locks. The reason given was the DOT 3 didn't offer enough compression resistance for the Anti-Locks would not work effectively....
You really know your stuff! The fix is definitely due to liability. And the info on brake fluids is spot on!
I have a 2012 Street Glide that is doing the same thing and it has ABS!
My 2010 FLHTK is affected but the dealer does not have the parts to do the recall work. Good thing I have extra bikes to ride
Ours came in on Monday. Maybe they have it now?
John Maxwell hopefully. God thing I haven’t had any braking issues.
Dude Make a video about your personal bikes/previous bikes, thanks again
Yea man. No worries, it’s coming. As spring rolls in, I’ll have less time to film while working. Kinda saving content out of the shop for when I can’t be “in the shop.” I have some ideas, though.
Solid video man. Thanks!
Thanks!
Why would it stop at 2011? What would change after 2011?..... My 14 SG has ABS so one should expect to still flush them per manual correct? It would seem this could be a never ending expansion as models age. Dunno.... Just sayin.
We sent quite a few ABS units back to HD about a year ago. I THINK through their testing they figured it takes that long for fluid to become that bad. With new knowledge, people will/should know the problems and start getting their fluid flushed. Remember, the problem still could happen, HD just won’t foot the bill.
John thanks for doing these videos, much appreciated. Question have you heard of the transmission oil transfer problem? I had not until last night I was going over my 17 R/G for a weekend trip and found my transmission dipstick DRY!! Where did it go? Well into the primary case. Evidently Harley knows about the problem but is NOT doing anything as far as notifying owners of the issue. Even the NEW 2018s have the issue. From what i have read a bad seal between the two cases and vacume in the primary are to blame. Can you shed some light? Please, and thanks.
Sounds like you know what’s up. Thing is, it’s so isolated, HD can’t really “let everyone know.” It’s a transfer of a few ounces, the difference between oil on your trans dipstick vs dry dipstick is about 6 ounces. So you’re transmission isn’t gonna blow up, but it does need to be fixed. People tend to over react, so if HD publicly said anything every M8 wonder would be sitting at the dealership waiting for an instant fix. For example, while I know about it. I’ve still never seen it...
They want the correct amount of fluids put in (because the transmission could have just been under filled during a service or assembly), and rechecked at 1k miles to confirm an issue. At that point under warranty the crankcase seal will be changed out.
Don’t forget, this is the same company that just dropped 30 million bucks on a brake fluid flush for decade old bikes just because people hadn’t properly maintained their ride. They’ll take care of it, no worries!
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. That is good to know that the tranny is ok. Even with a drop beyond the dipstick. I think I will get one of those speedy dipsticks for the tranny from P/A catalog, making for an easier check. I'm glad that I have all synthetics in my bike. Not real crazy of the idea of mixing different types. Thanks again!!
Wonder what country the hyd. control unit is from??
How many accidents has this contributed to? Way too many problems for such expensive bikes.
The number of accidents can be found in some of the articles on the subject. This is a problem that stems from lack of maintenance. Plain and simple. Owners constantly decline brake fluid flushes. It’s the most common suggested, yet denied service i see in a shop. It’s why out of 30 videos, I’ve done 3 on brake systems. 10% of my videos thus far have been dedicated to educating people about the importance of brakes. All bikes need brake fluid flushes, not just HD...
w f because a Nissan Sentra is so much cooler than a Harley right? Lol
I usually get to hear everything that goes wrong with HD at the Indian page, they seem to be kkeping up with everything that goes on!
That’s funny.
I just Paid to have my dealer flush the brakes on my new to me 15 SGS... I doubt they had the new formula brake juice two weeks ago.. If I have to add fluid in the next two years.. I guess I best not mix the new formula with the old... What are your thoughts on that John?
There’s no reason to add fluid. There’s enough in the system to account for pad wear. Once you change pads, you’re back to full in the reservoir. They are both Dot 4 though. So in THEORY it wouldn’t matter. I repeat in theory.
Seems like I read where Harley has changed the brake fluid formula also. Any truth to that, new part number?
That’s what the platinum label stuff is, the new goods. Part number 41800770, I think. I’m not at the shop, that’s what I think it is.
Mine failed after a brake job with front rotor replacement and flush. Previous flush done 2 years before when brakes done. Shop reflashed the unit and called it good. Happened last month. Missed the free recall. Damn
Damn. Horrible timing. Except recalls don’t expire. If your vin is confirmed to be under recall, don’t let them do it until it needs a flush!
John Maxwell Good point. I see the guys pretty regular so I'm sure they'll hook me up somewhere. Looking to get some head work done and they usually treat me right. Good video.
"Sir Vapes-A-Lot" knows his stuff
Haha, the HR manager made that for me, actually.
Hey john, love the videos. Getting closer and closer to buying a harley every week.
Thanks! Glad to hear that it's getting closer!
I'm looking at the new Street bob and the 2017 street bob..
Not sure I like the new speedo thingy compared to the old one.
Yes, No, Yes, No...Arg...Not sure what to pick..
But the 2018 also have much better grunt,power and so on.
That’s tough.
@cruiser John I have a 2015 Street Bob myself, i love the thing. I plan on upgrading to a Street Glide Special soon, though.
I am tossed between the 2018 Indian Chieftain and the 2018 Harley Street Glide. Right now, i am leaving towards the Indian Chieftain, i like the look far more.
I'm glad I got a Street Bob and non-abs and clutch cable
Very long term multibrand mechanic who agrees with you here!
Hi John I have a question I have a 2017 road King I had a stage 1 up grade done on it hi flow air cleaner and rush big Louie muffler's screaming eagle tuner and now it idles higher instead of 850 it now idles around 950 and it.seems to have a little more vibration now than it did is that normal ?
It’s only supposed to idle as low as 850 when I gets really hot, which I don’t like anyway. They seem to want to fall on their face sometimes once you start going again. So a higher idle is ok. It’s supposed to idle between 950 and 1050 during operating temps. As far as vibration, you may have something touching the frame. An exhaust clamp, head pipe at right riser floorboard are some that I see often.
Not sure why anyone would expect Harley to cover a 7-10 year old part...especially if they haven't bothered to maintain it once over that period. Doesn't even make sense to me that Harley should have to pay for the fluid. People are nuts. Brakes can be really important. Forget the silly loud muffler and save a few bucks to ensure the friggin brakes work. There are no "do overs" in the real world.
My favorite is “nah, I don’t have the money for a new tire, just install the new chrome stuff I bought”
Brakes are overrated. They only slow you down.
Yeah, they're a total buzz kill.
saddlebag probably because their so over priced !
when it doubt hit the gas not the brakes.
My clutch is on recall. Repair is in on a 5-8 week away for repairs..Does anyone know what the law is if I can't get use my bike? Do I still need to make monthly payment if I can't enjoy usage. This is my second bike from HD and have perfect payment history!
DO NOT stop paying for your bike. They will come and take it.
Should a person be concerned about primary h d auto chain adjuster over tightening the chain and causing other problems some people recommend after market adjuster do a better job i have a 2017 heritage
I think the concern about the auto tensioner comes from folks that are used to the enormous amount of "slop" found in the manual adjusters. I've never attributed a problem to the chain tensioner.
John Maxwell thanks
Sorry I'm late bin doing wedding stuff this week nuther good one 😀
glad my dyna has not got linked brakes ,and a carb no fuel injection,less to go wrong
I feel the same way about my Dyna BUT there should have been 2 recalls on our beloved Dynas too. 1. The stock cam chain shoes definitely should have been a recall.
2. The lack of chassis stabilizers should have been a recall.
I fixed these MAJOR flaws on my own dime and my own time. But I shouldnt have had to, and thats why I dont trust the MOCO to make good on future mistakes....and part of why I have no interest in starting over with a new bike.
Yes. Another video from John Maxwell (Thumbs up)
Keep up the good work John.
Cruiser John
I think you killed the control thingy mado thingy :-)
Just say Antonio did it :-)
My hopped up FXRS will run coast to coast with just about any Harley made... with ZERO of the problems of today’s $35,000 dollar bikes.... if only Harley made a modern FXR......
What about 17 FXDLS?
How come other motorcycle manufacturers dont have anywhere near as many recalls as Harley Davidson has?
I honestly don't know if they do or don't. HD is no doubt top dog, at over 50% of bikes sold every year goes to HD. Regardless of opinion, that makes them top dog. When that many bikes are on the road, and a recall occurs, it's big news. If another manufacture has a recall, how many bikes are under that recall? 10K? 20K? that's not big news. HD has a recall, that makes 100K+ bikes effected by the recall. That's big news. Most of them, are actually not a huge deal. For example, the oil cooling clamp for 2017 was made out like a big deal. 3 bikes were confirmed to be a problem. A recall happened, I never saw one myself. We literally checked 100s of bikes. It's just one of those quality control things that has to happen, though.
Hey John great video. I have a 17 FLHTCU do I have to take to dealer to bleed brakes. My dealer told me they have to hook up to a computer to energize the ABS unit, any truth to that? Thanks.
Yea. I think I mention it in better detail in the video linked in the description. It’s been awhile since I put that video out. Some good info in there, though.
Ok thanks for the reply.....
Yea man. Rereading my own response I’m not sure if it reads the way I meant. Yes there is truth to it, and the computer is needed. I think I explain what the computer does in the other video. Much easier than typing it all!
Ok I got the jist of it. But thanks for clearing up. Great videos.
so what about extended warranty? and what if you just got the bike like less than a year ago and don't know but the sales guy said "it was all done at the dealer" how do you find that out???
Extended warranty used to cover the unit, but with new information they may stop based on “lack of maintenance.” I remember your situation, but don’t get me in the middle of a dealer squabble!!! It does suck how you got hit. This guy bought privately, and was told we had kept up with everything. In actuality, we haven’t seen this bike for 6 years....
no man, no squabble for sure. much respect.
From the Reaper's Chair you can go to your local H-D dealer and ask the service department for a copy of any warranty service done to your bike. It doesn't matter what dealer you go to because if it was done and recorded to h-dnet.com it'll show up. I've done this at my dealer for my customers.
How many people have died as a result???
Hey John, which seat would you recommend for my Iron? (Occasional 2-up as well.)
1. Mustang Revere Journey - -www.mustangseats.com/Product/74100/
2. Mustang Fastback - www.mustangseats.com/Product/76145/
Thanks for the input!
Can a normal guy at home change his own break fluid on an ABS bike at home?
To properly flush brake fluid on an ABS system, the solenoids must be energized to rid the unit of any fluid/air. HD says this is the way it must be done. Every time I do a flush on an ABS system, I use the computer. That way I can be 100% sure that it's been done correctly. I'm not one to play around with brakes, but it's up to you how you want to do it.
Getting a lot of brake squealing /squeaking on my rear brakes
Oh, I almost forgot. Can you comment on why, when the ABS fails, the system doesn't default to non-ABS brakes? In other words, have you ever heard of any vehicle's ABS failing and the vehicles not having any brakes at all, as in the case of that fellow's Road King in your video?
You would think that’s how it would go, but for whatever reason that plunger gets stuck and it’s game over...
Ha! Ha! Not only is it game over, but that 18-wheeler could be the last thing going through your mind as your brains are splattered all over the road.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so correct me if I'm misunderstanding this whole ABS thing H-D is calling a "maintenance issue". As it is right now, my understanding of what will happen if my bike's ABS fails is the ABS lamp will NOT flash or remain on continuously when the ABS is NOT operating. Well, if that's the case, H-D needs to amend their service literature because MY service manual states not only will the ABS lamp flash or remain on continuously when the ABS is not operating, the standard brake system will be operational. That just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read, right?
Stephen that is the case in an electrical fault. In the even of a mechanical fault such as this issue, there is no electrical warning. It’s no different than a brake line becoming smashed. Brakes just fail in that scenario. No way for the electrical system to know that.
Well, that's not very reassuring. Either H-D engineers didn't think this through or they did think it through and decided the benefits of designing and implementing a fail-safe weren't worth the costs which, in my opinion, borders on criminal or, excuse my bluntness, they're a bunch of morons. Imagine Boeing designing an airplane that wouldn't alert the pilot that there was a mechanical failure in the landing gear. Maybe that's not the best analogy, but you catch my drift. Anyway, I really like your videos. You should be in Hollywood directing movies instead of laboring in a H-D service department!
Haha. They aren’t that good! Thing is about the warning of brakes, though. There is no warning on a non abs model of brake failure either. That’s why you pay extra for a full service and flush brake fluid at scheduled intervals. Inspecting the brake system visually and keeping the fluid fresh decreases the chances of a problem. It’s no different than decades and decades worth of brake systems in both auto and power sports industries.
Cool Video.
Thanks!
i have a 2017 street 750 with abs
What Mechanic replaces the Brake Pads, And doesn't bleed the brakes?
While that is a fairly standard practice for some, the downside to that is that fluid breaks down over time, while brakes get worn down over miles. The two don’t always go together. That’s why HD recommends checking the fluid with a tool during services. The 2 year mark is really for the guy that somehow doesn’t make it 5k miles in 2 years!
I have one of those Testers made by BikeMaster
They’re very useful!
Consider yourself lucky you dont work in the automotive industry. My recalls come 2-6 at a time usually Fridays just as they are going home in Europe. Bastards!
Hahaha
How much does a hydraulic control unit cost?
Around 400 bucks
Thanks.
What does it mean Harley Davidson are going to go down perminatley what is the problem with this company
Have you forgotten that the problem stems from owners not flushing their own brake systems? I think it’s pretty stand up that HD paid a fortune to do maintenance on 10 year old bikes that the owners should have been doing...
what is the price on that unit?
The ABS module? I think it’s somewhere around 400 bucks
cheaper just get them flushed every 2 years.
And safer!
Why can’t you run brake cleaner threw it and try to free it up
What up John ✋.......thank you
What up!? Thanks for watching!
John ty for sharing ......hoping to get that b/o 18 anniversary in march man....thanks for recall update i had friends tell me about it and now i know Mr. Maxwell
I’ve had a ton of people asking me about models that aren’t in question, so I definitely wanted to put some info out on it. Can’t wait for you to get that bad ass bike!
Mr. Maxwell.....ya man cant wait.......you really helped alot of people all the time plus this blog.....im did you ever sell your b/o 18 anniversary?
Nah, it’s still here I believe. Everyone is after those touring bikes!