30] Should We Trade For This Sailboat +$30,000? | Abandon Comfort - Sailing The World
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Seriously, there’s just something about seeing a sailboat on the hard. It just adds to the romantics of the dream. You think - ahh if I could just get her back where she belongs and then bam, the wheels start turning. Hope you all are as excited as we are to show you us back on the water in next week's episode!
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cost conscious cruiser is a good read too......"champagne cruising on a beer budget"
taewachien - since when has it been wrong to ask questions and seek the opinions of others? I think your nit-picking. Sure lots of channels do this but so long as it's relevant (which it was in this video) then I don't have a problem with it.
Abandon Comfort watch free range sailing
Greetings from up the road a bit in Tallahassee. This is an interesting quandary you've got on your hands. While I'm all in favor of a "less is more" approach, I don't see why you should/would also want to cough up an additional $30k for a smaller boat of unknown quality. You could do a lot of sailing with that money.
Even with the additional expenses of Lucy it would take years for you to make up the difference in terms of operational cost savings. Then there's the never ending condition of 2-foot-itis that all boaters eventually succumb to. After all, the owner of the other boat is looking for something bigger, not smaller despite already owning a blue water capable boat, which begs the question why he wants to get a bigger boat, if the one he has is already ok to begin with. Also, why is it on the hard in the first place? Sometimes the devil you know (Lucy) is better than the devil you don't (smaller boat).
I can also relate to the masochistic enjoyment you can get out of "messing about on boats". It's hard, but very rewarding work, but the point of sailing is sailing after all and the two of you have put in plenty of sweat equity already. No need to spend more money to get a new boat and even more time and money to get her ship shape.
If you're willing to do all of that, I would suggest you look into a 30' Warham catamaran, or similar "low tech", blue water boat. There is even a builder of the Eclipse model in West Palm Beach and there are plenty of other Warhams available for sale, as well. I know some purists scoff at catamarans, but they have many advantages, especially as live aboard vessels with a shallow draft and their increased speed is never a bad thing. There's a reason cats are the hull design of choice for almost all modern race boats and charter services alike.
Take your time and give Lucy a fair shake before you get another boat. As long as you are committed to sailing the world, you can choose any number of boats to take you there.
Fair winds...
When you spoke of smaller doing ocean crossings, I thought of the Pardey's boat. 29ft and no motor - at least not on the boat they wrote of in a couple of books.
I hope it becomes very clear to you what your decision should be.
Your boat looks big now but fill it up with the gear you need for ocean passages and it will not be as big as you thought. Like extra prop, generator, filters, oil, extra anchor, spareparts, extra sails, extra rigging lines, extra lines, extra wiring/cables, tools, 100gallons of water, 100gallons of fuel, lamp oil, extra propane or fuel for stove, food for months for you and the dog, books, magazines, wine, beer, big solarpanels and a huge batterybank to charge all your camera/computer gear for youtube vids/editing and your two suitcases with clothes. :)
I really looking forward to see you splash your boat andl really enjoy your vids.
Being newbie you have no idea yet how much stuff you’ll soon accumulate while cruising especially if you intend to cross oceans. Provisions & safety gear add up fast. Being minimalists will not save you from this fate unless you sacrifice safety. While you can fit that in a smaller boat, the extra weight will exact a bigger penalty in performance & safety as you approach or exceed the recommended weight limits. It’s much better to be in a boat with a bigger cushion to carry extra weight. It will sail better & faster & be safer.
There is a strange phenomenon that happens in blue water...it shrinks the size of your boat. GO sail, even around the relatively close Caribbean islands, and you will experience it. Boats that feel positively huge at the dock and shallow water areas can feel just right in blue water...especially in a blow. More important than overall size of the boat is the sail plan and the way it is broken-up. As long as the crew can handle each individual sail in the sail plan, in all conditions, the length of the boat becomes less of a deciding factor. If comparing a sloop to a sloop, then the shorter boat will typically be easier to handle. But compare a sloop to a true cutter of equal lengths then the sails of the cutter will be smaller and easier to handle. The ease of handling is what gives people greater confidence at sea.
At the dock, greater length mostly equals greater comfort. In blue water, greater length equals more comfort but also equates to greater average speed and with that typically a higher safety factor. A 3 knot average versus a 5 knot average can make all the difference sometimes. As you said, boats are a series of compromises and the trick is finding the right ones for your cruising plans. Too big, or too small, and your cruising life is cut short.
As others have said......Wait till you get into some WEATHER.......When your water line length gets you an extra 1/2 knot, 1 knot, 1-1/2 knot or 2 knot you will be ESTATIC that you have the length, when you're making an extra 15 or 60 miles a day, it matters. The bigger boat should fatigue you less, enclosing the cockpit to reduce exposure to the elements, so you make better/safer decisions. More tankage. Room for more inexpensive stores. Room for proper fridge/freezer. Room for crew. Room for a generator so you can run a water maker. Sorry, if you want to live and explore on a boat you Need a genny, water maker so you have water for yourselves to drink, bath, cook/clean dishes and wash clothes, a washer dryer is optional. You need the room to store sails, jerry cans of extra fuel, gas, water, paddle boards, bikes, scuba gear, solar panels and batteries to store the power and the DINGY w/outboard. Some people will say you don't need a genny, IMHO you need a back-up to the charging capabilities of the main engine and the voltage to run a water maker. You have a solid Bluewater boat, change the oil in the main, get it in the water and cast off. P.S. Don't take this as negativity, spend a year traveling on your boat as you said and you will figure it out. You'll have time to think about it all. Fair winds !
Your boat size arguments seem all focused on live aboard requirements. Larger boats go faster and are more comfortable at sea. They also accommodate conveniences like water makers and generators and larger stuff like paddle boards and dinghies. Good idea to wait for more cruising experience. I think you will change your minds.
Do you like to scuba dive ? Do you like to paddle board ? Do you like to surf/windsurf ? You might THINK you have a lot of unused space..but you will soon see that you do not .. Have fun, good luck and fair winds... Cheers
David Chandley
That is what I want to know... what is the best, small, live aboard blue water that you can dive with? Compressor, tanks, gear. Thoughts?
Well John,,, For me .....I couldn't imagine living full time on anything smaller than 35'.. we have a 40'er(at the water line) and its tight ,but doable ..
I would vote for keeping the HR. The main reasons are that you've already put tremendous effort into repairs and upgrades and you'll just start all of that again. You've also learned and fixed the systems. On our side, before buying Talisman (Oyster 485) we sailed and viewed as many boats as we could. These adventures in boat shopping are shown on our channel. My belief is that size does make for easier passagemaking. That and heavier displacement to be sure. One really big feature of the HR is that it is a famous world cruising bluewater brand. In our travels we see a ton of them around Europe and the manufacturer is still in business, which is huge to buyers. But getting caught out in a blow is something that happens no matter what you do. For that it really helps to have a bit more length and something that doesn't pound like the modern production boats. Be aware (as I know you are) that stability and draft are almost mutually exclusive. Shallow draft helps a lot when gunkholing, but leads to danger in the wrong sea conditions. Getting rolled is somewhere you never want to go. As for space, we're all about minimization too, but find that cruising means things like a ton of spares and tools. Wendy and I are looking around right now and reckon that 70-75% of our stowage is taken up by tools and spares. We have a lot of foul weather gear too, food, water, spare running rigging and warps, an extra Genoa plus staysail and cruising chute, snorkeling equipment, PFDs for ourselves and guests, and our everyday clothes. Shoes are surprisingly difficult to store in a compact way. If you ever make it to the Med and have to winter here, you'll need at least a few warm weather things. Stuff expands to fill up the available space. Finally, I'm partial to Hallberg Rassy generally. If I couldn't have an Oyster, HR would be a close second, followed by Malo and Nijad.
Sailing Yacht Talisman, He wrote a good comment to this video. Your Hallberg-Rassy 352 is a very good boat for the travels you plan to do. The Hallberg-Rassy yard in Sweden (where I come from) makes one of the best boats you can buy. They have very high quality and are built to be very safe blue water boats. There is a reason this brand have become famous all over the world for it's capabilitys and performance. I also have to mention that I hold the other Swedish brand Najad at the same level as Hallberg-Rassy. I would never make the trade you are thinking about to do. The HR 352 is perfect size for you. You will not want a smaller boat when crossing oceans. I think you should make some more travels with your current boat before you make any bad decisions :)
Over and out, from Stockholm, Sweden
Abandon Comfort morphs into Abandon Logic with breaking news of wanting to downsize from the 35' Hallberg Rassy before even undertaking extended cruising (6 months +) with it. To say it's too big without objectively experiencing what the 35 footer provides in a variety of sailing conditions, provisioning (water, food, spares, fuel) and destination choices, is tantamount to being slightly irrational. End of the day...it's their decision. However their thinking is looking more emotional than pragmatic...it certainly is provactive for sure.
Yes, we understand that you named the channel Abandon Comfort, but at a certain point, comfort equates to safety. You can most definitely cross an ocean in a 25' boat. You'll be beaten and bruised when you're done, but you can do it. Of course, you'll have to ration food and water to make it happen. And you need enough for 3 right now. To be safe, you'll probably consider adding a 3rd human, which means food and water for 4.
I've got this feeling that once you spend 6-9 months outside of the country living full time on the boat you'll realize that you don't want to be on something much smaller than what you have, especially if you do some extended passage making in that time. Each to their own. I'll keep watching either way.
I would add that smaller boats are (generally speaking) slower boats. And speed at sea means safety at sea - you have a better chance of avoiding storms by sailing fast and/or shortening the overall passage time so that you do more sailing within the forecastable weather window of 5-10 days.
i think the record for smallest sailboat to cross the atlantic was like 5.4ft called fathers day lol buddy couldn't even lay down properly could u imagine that trip
You guys did yourselves a huge favor buying that baby Rassy. It is a solid, european built boat that will last your whole life. 35ft is not big. As you cruise the boat you will be adding more gear to do more things and that extra space will come in handy. Also you guys have not been in any real sea conditions yet and you will find the more waterline and keel you have the better. You also have a real engine in that boat, not some silly 2 cylinder with no power that you will get in a smaller boat. Also the cost of keeping up a 30 foot boat is not significantly less than yours. The other boats you are pointing out in the yard do not even come close to the quality of yours. Get some miles under that keel and when you want a bigger boat I will sell you my Hans Christian 38 haha.
A boat is also a labor of love, and you've put your hearts into this one, I'd love to see you back out on the water enjoying the fruits of your labor than watch you start anew. It is however your choice to do what is best for yourselves, I wish you the best and will follow along regardless of your decision.
Don't go smaller than you are now. It is more than just space. The first boat I ever sailed was a 20' Howley heritage. A full keel 20 footer that was entirely encapsulated boat built to go around the world. The definition of a pocket cruiser. A single burner stove and enough room below deck to sleep. She was the most bristol boat I had ever been on and I loved her. BUT she didn't sail the waves she surfed them. A smaller boat is tossed around and goes slow. You guys have a great boat, and the right size.. appreciate that rather than trying to make your life harder. Your boat will go faster, smother and be better for Roo. It's not about how big BUT it is also not about how small.
So, I am on the other end of my life and career, taking early retirement to go cruising. Like you, I also don't know what boat I will end up with long term. And like you, we need to get out on our current boat for a while to figure it out. Unlike you, we're trying to figure out how large to go, rather than how small to go - we have a 39 foot, and are looking at 46-ish. Unlike you, we are not trying to Abandon Comfort, but rather embrace it. I have worked a long time to earn this comfort, but it is of course personal choice.
I suppose a big thing for us is the idea of hosting family and friends - and possibly even grandkids sometime - for visits of varying length. We want to have room for all of that.
I have joked for some time that we had to have a boat with at least 2 staterooms so that after an argument each of us has a place to go and slam a door.
I propose an experiment :) Provision the boat (while still on the hard) for an Atlantic (or Pacific) crossing, then lock yourselves in it for 18 days and see if that re-defines your thoughts on how many square feet you want/need/use. This of course precludes real info on how well the boat would handle sea conditions but it's a start!
hey have no intention of making a crossing
Hey guys, I think the yellow boat is a George Buehler design. George just passed away a few months ago. He specialized in designs for DIY boat builders. Also, it would be nice to have the extra cabin for crossings if you take crew for the third watch, it would make crossings safer, and more fun.
The first boat looks like a early shoal draft Morgan Out island 41 except for the odd clipper bow.
The mustard yellow boat is a probably Juno (35) George Buehler design for home build. Look in decent shape for probably an old boat. ( Buehler just dies at 69, sad news) he is better known recently for Diesel duck steel motorsailors built in China.
Dana 24
And Macatawa looks like a 'meter" rate race boat possibly a Lunders 24? Designed when the CCA Racing rules did not penalize overall length and just used waterline length.hence Large overhangs.
The Cheoy lee , 30 clipper ,cruisaire 30 will be more work than the HR!
Good move do some sailing first so you know better what you really need in a boat.
If you want to go small there are a few well known small so called bluewater cruisers BUT they typically squeezed a lot of stystems into a small space, which still go wrong and are just harder to work on.( check out a Nor'sea27 for quart in a pint pot!)
You need to go simple and not necessarily extra small . You need some size for decent sailing characteristics off shore, difficult to get in a shoal draft , but there are some lift keel boat like MJ sailings boat. (Trisalu 37, aluminum).
Have you seen the 3 interviews with 'coconuts sailing' a whole family sailing in a super simple boat across the Atlantic , Drake paragon did the interviews , here is the link to the preview.
Coconuts sailing interviews
Trailer
ruclips.net/video/LuzG82zGecw/видео.html
And 1st of full interviews
ruclips.net/video/0SaXtseHnach/видео.html
Cheers Warren
I met two men living in Moorea. One a Scot who had made his own boat as a youth in Scotland and ended up in the South Pacific. He sold his boat and stayed there, making his living playing music and singing at hotels. The other a French man sail to Moorea and sold his boat , married a local and had a small shop their. Both had the same advice. keep your boat under 30 feet because of the expense and you do not need a larger boat for safety.
Well...there's the investment in the teakey deck paying off already! ;P
Good advice I was given is that you want the smallest boat you can get away with, not the biggest boat you can afford. These parameters will obviously be different for each person. Good luck.
That little lady is a Flicka! We're currently refitting our 1976 Flicka to get her ready to cruise again!!! Bahamas and beyond next season. Shes a beat. videos to come soon :) It's such a cult classic, we're reallly lucky to have her :) Cheers
The important factor to take into account with choosing the length is the boat movement at sea. The shorter the waterline, the more uncomfortable the boat will feel in a running sea. In crossing the atlantic you will not encounter flat seas and the hull movement from a 30' hull, especially in a following sea, will be very uncomfortable. Remember, there is nowhere to hide in the Atlantic. A wider hull over 35 - 40 is ideal for ocean crossings.
The boat with MC 8402 RD registration is a Dragon Sloop. A One-Design Racing boat that looks to have been transformed into a fast day-sailor with the roller furling they have.
I agree with you... I went from a 19 ft... to a 25 ft to a 30 ft in 3 years. I had the 30 ft boat for 20 years. I could handle it by myself... just buy quality... not price..
Go smaller than 35...you have rocks in your head, a sandwich short of picnick, the lights on but no ones home. 35 is great for two young people, Any smaller and and ocean comfort is gone. If you are staying coastal ok but cross oceans and st some point a 50 footer is too small. Cruising is about self sufficiency not do much about how small, 35 is small when you cant get off, when your fixing things and can't get away from the tools, dust and mess you live in it till its done or the next job pops up. As far as bigger costing more to maintain, well its a bit of a fallacy. Once you start cruising and keep out of marinas cost is minimal. Yes you may use more fuel but its relative to how much motoring. Antifoul paint, whats an extra gallon or so ever 2nd year. Uses the same brushes and rollers and paint trays. These people who say everything is more expensive because they ate bigger. Winches are bigger sheets are bigger rigging is bigger, but these items you already have its not like you have to change them out every year.
Look at Webb Chiles and his 6 circumnavigations and the boats he has used. Currently 20,000 miles into a circumnavigation on a Moore 24 and this guy knows what he's doing and then some. Go for it....
The sail boat you walk in front of on episode 30 ( minute 3) is a George Buehler design 35.6. Possibly called a Juno. Her name is dandy lion ( thus the color). I literally have her blue prints in my bedroom and spent many an hour working on her while she was in key west ( right next to where you’ll be staying). Couldn’t tell you how shocked and happy I was to see her in your video. She belongs to a friend of mine who is currently captaining a schooner out in the Bahamas.
If you ever need a hand with anything in the keys let me know (and sorry in advance for the jet noise ).
Austin
People cross oceans in a rowboat, so I can't argue that a smaller boat can't do it well. But there are questions of comfort and safety that you should think long and hard about. Once you've lived aboard for long periods as well as made long passages you might change your view. But listen to old crusty sailors - they are your best guide.
Guys, I am a total novice but really think your boat is great. Plan for 5 years from now after you have cruised a bit. Circumstances may change. You know Lucie from keel mast, bow to stern. Up to you but your boat is already your home.
Lots of comments about the extra space you will need while cruising so definitely do 6 months of cruising first. But also remember that water line length is related to speed. A 35 foot boat can average 20% more boat speed than a 28-30 footer. That means coming in before dark on a long day passage and a day earlier on a 5 day passage. More speed is more safety.
It’s funny how different we all are because I am a single sailor in a 40’ and wish I had a 45’. It’s more fun when I have a group aboard and with 4 to 6 people it’s hard to get around each other. I personally think it worth a little more money for the space.
Sailing Corina Club, maybe, if you have those little more money.
That's a good point, BUT... When you're cruising you'll be surrounded by people with bigger boats. I've always said, the best boat to party on is someone else's boat!
Bigger and nice boats will also attract the wrong people at the wrong place. And the Carribean is full of this kind of "wrong places" that you actually want to visit.
I do make my cruising money by chartering guests so of corse I need the space. ;)
I am right there with you, SCC. I spend most of my time single handed. I just put in an offer on a 42; it is hard to beat the space and comfort of the extra waterline. I can understand people wanting to save money, especially if long term cruising is the goal. If you go from a 35' to a 40' the expense will be in the marinas, not the boat. The extra money you spend on one more gallon of bottom paint, or a slightly large sail is nothing in the big picture.
I see the appeal of going smaller but once you start sailing a bit more you may find the larger boat brings confidence to go on longer passages. You may also find it nice having the capability of having company. I love what you’re doing and support you guys no matter what. Thanks for the great videos!
Good on you. Do what makes you happy! If you want a smaller boat, get one. This whole experience is a learning experience and I am happy to be sharing this with you. Enjoy and keep going, and get out on that water soon!
smart on waiting. for long travels canned fruit and food take up a lot of room, and if possible a water maker makes things a lot easier in staying out longer. i know slip fees are based on footage on vessel. I grew up on a 39 foot custom built yorktown. the biggest concern i would have with downgrading is do you have enough room to store 3 weeks of food for you kelsey and rue going to a smaller boat. love watching your channel and all the videos you put out im looking at returning to the water again soon.
I have been sailing for 45years.I started with a 8ft dingy.My first proper yacht was a Phillipa27 which I sailed single handed for 30 years. It covered the Atlantic ,the Pacific Indian Ocean. Mostly singlehanded but occasionally with another crew member. It had a head and galley no chart table no shower. I now have a Rival 34 it has a chart table, still no shower, all very basic stuff, and tiller steering.Personally 34 to 36 is about right for me, sure the bigger you go the costs go up but no much more than a 27ft boat if you stay around 34/36ft after that costs go right up. Get some sea miles under your belt before you finally decide you will be surprised how much you accumulate on your travels.
If what your title means is you give the other boat owner your boat for his and he gives you an additional $30,000 it would tell me that this issue is not about size so much as it is hard cash. I can understand that. The swing keel boat is trash compared to your HR. You can swap your boat for something much better than the one you are looking at. You want small, you want quality, few boats compare to Bristol Channel Cutters, smaller Island Packets, or some of the classic plastic boats such as Albergs, Pearson Vanguards, Endeavors, Irwins, and the list goes on and on. You are on the hard most of the time not at sea. A 35 foot boat at sea is not so big. The ocean is a very large place. Prove to use you are actually sailors not ship rights at heart. Go out and sail that Bentley of the sea you own, come back in two years, then tell us what you intend to do.
Ok i wont say what i really think cause you two are in youre own world. And i know what i am talking about. And thats cool But i will say what i do know. That boat is a ficka 20 built by pacific sea craft and it can go anywhere. Averages 3 knots and bobs like a cork on the open ocean.The big sister to that is the dana 24 and is as big as any 30 footer inside. Averages 4 knots. Its Stronger than most blue water cruisers built today. A bristol channel cutter would be awesome. Average 5 knots like youre boat will . But all those boats cost more than you got. Maybe a old flicka is cheaper.
You will one day out at sea if you ever cross a ocean understand why bigger is better. 35 feet is perfect and you got a good deal. 35 feet today is considered small for ocean passages. Why because crossing oceans is brutal on small boats.
I have a tayana 37. I am 100 percent solo sailing more than 100,000 miles and i Wish i had a tayana 55. I have crossed oceans on a 30 footer its a huge difference in comfort and Believe me you downsize i believe you will not follow youre dream of sailing around the world.
Ok i cheated i said what i think. Make that trade and lets see what happens to the dream.
I agree with some, also you have an asome boat, I do however disagree with the top or average speed of the Dana as I sail one and it’s loaded with liveaboard stuff. It motors at 5knts and sails the same pushing 6+ not a lot more then 4 but it is faster 4knt, it’s a great little cruiser and there are many off shore, but agree I’d rather be in your boat or larger if having to face a storm and crazy high seas. We sail on the Pacific side of Canada out of Vancouver through out the Pacific North West.
Michael Stask i almost bought a new dana in 1988. They are such cool boats. I love the flicka a lot too.
If i was not continuing to sail across vast oceans i would get the dana. A mighty little ship.
My point to the abandon comfort crew is if tney downsize and even if they manage to fit that queen size bed in there. They are giving up speed and comfort. Maybe not seaworthy
Speed is safety and becomes a issue more than not .like making landfall before dark .Comfort is a matter of interpretation. But anyone not willing to give up a queen size bed has no idea what its going to be like crossing oceans. Day after day after day.
A coffin makes a really comfortable bed at sea. I dont have one but my sea birth is built like one. You need to jam yourrself into place at sea.
My tayana is very friendly, probobly 2 times more sea kindly than there halberg rassy is.
I am so beat up after 10 days at sea in trade wind conditions. I am solo and its a lot more demanding than it is on a couple.
My next point is the dream is so far from the reality. Once you sail 19 days at sea and make landfall you really dont feel like heading of again just to be back at sea. It takes a long time to get the whole thing in perspective and make repairs and catch youre breath.
I dont see many channels doing this except delos. La vega too but not so much just yet.but have done a lot.
Anyone sailing the caribbean is just scratching a itch. Its not untill you have gone to burmuda or crossed to puddle do you really know. Ruby rose is in that catagory and look at there channel cause he is spot on with reality.
As much as you dont need big look at lin and larry pardy. Pretty much sais it all. But i guarantee you they dont have a queen size bed.
I am not dising the bed cause 90 percent of cruising life you will sleep in it. But at sea you will not.
Couldn't agree more. I don't have much blue water experience, Hawaii to the PNW on a West Sail 32, but I have thought about boats enough and have consulted experienced sailor friends to think you may be missing part of the equation. I'm glad you're not committed to the decision yet, I challenge your premise that the only benefit of longer is comfort. If you are serious about blue water cruising, you may be missing the bigger point of a bigger boat. It's not about comfort, it's about seaworthiness, how the water line of the vessel interacts with the zillions of wave functions it will encounter across the water. The relationship is pretty simple, the longer the boat, the better it will bridge the waves and the smoother, and SAFER, the ride will be. There will be specific sea conditions that will be challenging for any cruiser size vessel, but overall bigger is definitely better. Folks cross in little boats all the time, but do they make a lifestyle of it? The trauma of being tossed around on a little boat for days in exactly the wrong sea conditions will inevitably make you think a little longer before embarking on blue water crossings than you would with a longer boat. When you're getting blown into a rocky coastline you will also appreciate the speed of the longer boat. I would want a little more grip on the water than provided by some of those full keel tanks as well you were eying as well. It's pretty frustrating pointing as high as you can into a strong wind and still slipping downwind.
Justifying stupidity, I love it.
If I've learned anything from the last 30 episodes it's that you both are very good about making informed decisions. Please do what you want, this channel is a gold mine because you do exactly that. I would be very interested to learn what it is like living aboard a 28-30' boat compared to a 35. What sacrifices do you have to make? Do those sacrifices even effect your quality of life in a meaningful way? If you can live out of a Prius you can probably live out of a 28 foot sailboat. Thanks for providing so much value to the community!
If your willing to uber in the Keys and still looking for revenue, think of all that extra space as a pay to Couch Surf space. So many people want to try out this 'cruising' lifestyle, you could book 'pay to crew' spots. Actively vet the people you want to stay with you, split the day to day costs, the provisioning costs, and the maintenance costs, plus some profit, and show others how it is to cruse. You have enough Patrons to make that a requirement, then find people you could get along with (and make Roo the final approval) and get to sailing. Three or four watches on a crossing is going to be hard enough, just the two of you would/could be a breaking point. Best of luck, Keep Lucy, enjoy the Journey.
Your best video to date. Do it, go small. My family of five is getting ready to overnight cruise on a 20 foot pocket cruiser I'm building.
As an owner of a 26' cruiser I agree with a lot of this. But I still think the extra space you have will come into its own when you start cruising the world (spares, tools, fuel, water, food, extra sails, safety gear ....). ~~_/) ~~
I think for me the difference with going a bit smaller is not necessarily comfort in the cabin, but comfort at sea in rough conditions. The more freeboard you have, the more comfortable the boat will feel through the waves (slicing as opposed to bouncing off one to hit the next). Of course displacement plays into this as well, but you get my general idea.
Living aboard is not Blue Water Cruising. The fact that you only have two suitcases of personal property is a great thing, but it has nothing to do with boat size. What you lose in a smaller boat is speed through the water, storage for food, water, supplies, equipment, crew, family, and space for children and all the things they need (if you decide to have them.)
Based on your own words, you seem to be looking at everything in near term, and not so much long term. Certainly you will save some money in slip fees, bottom paint, and other boating related expenses, but from experience it is not enough to justify the loss of storage and speed for long term cruising, which you admit you have not done yet. The boat you have will do everything you talk about wanting to do. Now go do it.
Right now you guys have the daily walks and endless space around you. My advice is to get her out on the water. Boats get a lot smaller when you've been in open water for awhile. Sail her and enjoy all the work you've put into her. The other one will still be there in the future, and you may run across a better deal in the future, if you still want to downsize. Can't wait to see you guys dropping anchor in paradise.
Great, a Ready Mix Cement plant right next to you. @ 1:50
Love, Love that 30 foot boat, Atticus is only a 30 footer with 4.5
Foot draft...!!
Honestly I think it would be so cool if you get the smaller boat it’s a beauty and luci or Lucy is home but that little boat would be a plot twist for the abandon comfort channel and it looks great the pirate looking bow? The front lol idk boats very well and I like the stern little cabin also like you said you don’t need a big boat because it’s only a family of 3 and I think you don’t need to put your self in a position where you need to spend so much money on repairs for something you could get smaller and save money on repairs because less money on supplies and equipment
Btw I love you guys 😍😭
Important Ryan: That bowsprit takes the marina's estimated length of that 30 to probably 35 feet. The upkeep of the wood also is unbearable to me! No Way. Also when you finally head out I've always seen Sailors buy and store whatever they can in low cost areas..filling the available space. Also,'and this is big...Your H.R. is a relatively dry runner. The cockpit is higher and moved forward more. Getting saltwater wet is NOT good.....Low freeboard is not advised.( that is a complete deal BREAKER right there) My advice to cruisers who have a cruising ground like maybe , the windward and leeward islands is, target 4 or 5 protected harbors with the best accomodations. The works. And then set out to make it feel like a part time home so you're all tapped in. ( Maybe with secluded anchorages to head off to) G.T.
The only thing I would really ask you to consider before going smaller is: Can a smaller vessel carry enough fuel and water to comfortably be a sea for at month?
We have had the same experience on land with our RV's. We have bought and sold at least five or six RV's and looking for a truck camper at the moment. We have learned along the way just what we need and desire. And that changes too as one ages or moves about. Nothing to feel bad about sharing, although I understand the hesitance because of comments getting out of hand. You presented this very nicely.
I would not go smaller and I like the cockpit space on my 343 where we can layout and comfortably accommodate guests.
Shallow draft will be awesome in the Caribbean.
Yes ! Bang on the money ! You's guys are ok for thinking smaller ! Everything is so much easier , cheaper and so much cozier , Plus much less distance flying when you get thrown across the cabin by a big wave .
Definitely sail it for an extended period of time first. You might find that life changes a bit and the extra few feet will be useful. 25 feet would be quite small. I'm guessing the galley on a boat like that would make it much tougher for food preparation.
I have steamed, yes actual steam not sailed, across the equator over 8 times in the pacific. I could not possibly think of doing it in a boat as small as you are suggesting. Take what you have and sail her in a storm, in the calm, and in the windless areas of the world. Then make your decision.
Fantastic episode! Thank you for your honesty.
Your boat is going to sail beautiful and be the perfect size, give her a chance and cut back on deck adhesive fumes. Once you get in a heavy crossing, the seaworthiness and motion of your hull is as loving as they come. Instead of thinking going small think of going simple, or just get going... no more Mt Everest projects. Prioritize the minimum you need to start hopping around islands safely, then enjoy some less intensive projects underway. If you don't like it, you toss in the towel with lower losses and if you do like it the greater rewards will be faster up front. Use the boat size to fit a decent dinghy it will be well worth it. Respects and thanks for continued great video, Dave V Fla
I would always get potable water from Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage down Gasparilla, they have city water there, no sulphur like at J&R.
The boat to starboard of the wooden one you first stood by looks a lot like my Ericson 36C.
YES! ~Also I just want a flip that boat series anyway
You HAVE an HalRas.... stay were you are. You already have a top 5 boat builder under your feet right now. If you get on an ocean your current boat size will be more stable in the wave and roll. In heavier weather this becomes vital to your sanity and survival. Safety is more important, full stop.
You have probably heard the advice--Dont buy the biggest boat you can afford, buy the smallest boat you can live with. Bob and Sue in Punta Gorda.
Don't sell her, she is beautiful, nice and a cool boat. You put so much work into her!
I absolutely love the discussion about boat size, it took me years and $s. I do think you have the perfect boat for a couple that is living-aboard and crossing oceans thoe (long term).
I owned a 36ft Hatteras motoryacht for many years so my experience may not apply all that well. However, the rule I would apply in this situation has proven to be fairly generic. It's much batter to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it. In your situation and endeavor I would think having the extra space creates a lot of options for you in the future. For example, you could invite Patreon's or Subcribers to live aboard for a tour or something like that. Or, as you've done already, use it to make a little extra money. Another option could be a "workout" space for long hauls. If you get creative you can really get some bang for the extra upkeep. In my experience the cost of upkeep and maintenance has more to do with the diligence of it than the difference of a few feet in size. I would say "stay the course" and commit yourselves to what you have. You've put a lot of love and effort into your current home. Enjoy it and let the world turn a while. Your wants and needs will change with time also. Just my 2 cents. Luck to you!
A few reasons to keep the boat you have would be more stable sailing, extra room for provisions. Future upgrade for more fuel/water storage. And a place for potential guests to stay
My girlfriend and I live side by side in the marina, I live on a Newport 27s and she lives on a Pacific Seacraft Dana 24. As the Dana is a well built pocket cruiser we take her on the longer adventures, and my Newport on the weekend or shorter adventures. We both live small boats and as we can’t always keep 2 boats we talk about wether we could both live on the Dana 24 or wether we would have to upsize. We sail the Pacific Northwest from Vancouver Canada and are planning to head north along the coast of British Columbia and up to Alaska as everyone else heads south lol. Anyway just wanted to say pocket cruisers are great (many Dana’s off shore) and it’s not always about size ;) sorry little boat humor... great channel been watching from the start, come to the west coast, I can’t guarantee your car wouldn’t get broken into here but the west coast is an amazing beautiful place. Keep up the great work and check out Pacific Seacraft Dana 24, I’m sure it’s to small for you two and a dog but they are well built boats.
Thanks,
Michael
Great idea. Then you can replace all the teak on that boat since it was so much fun doing Lucy. When you hit the blue water and you discover you need more space, watcha gonna do? With Lucy the worse case is you have extra storage space. I can't believe the extra costs justify a 30k expenditure. That's my 2cent contribution.
Sell and use the money to buy double reppalcement parts that will bdeak in far off places. Two autopilots, shackles, winches, more solar panels and a water maker with spare parts and a good dingy. Those will make all the difference more than the space.
HOLD ON! As Greg Miller's post said, "Abandon Comfort should change to Abandon Ship....you have noooo direction at all" ..... YOU'VE LOST THE PLOT! "Go Small they said" Ask yourselves why have all the REAL cruisers i.e. Emerade Steel, Follow the Boat and a hundred more not sailing 'Bath Tubs' ???????????
What about friends and crew? A chance for viewers to go sailing with you guys... like Delos.. There is also more to sailing than sailing.. what about when you get to where you’re going? Surf boards, scuba gear and so on..
The sailboat with the narrow beam appears to be a 6 meter boat. It had Michigan registration and they are hugely popular there for club racing.
Would downsizing so much be fair to your dog if he is to cruise with you? From 3mi walks now to relatively stationary for days/weeks... for a breed that needs exercise and mental stimulation, this should be food for thought.
Alex Martinez I usually do not chime in to complaining about millennial egocentrism and naivity, but somehow I now start understanding those who do...
I'm guessing early Bill Crealock design 1980's Dina, Pacific Seacraft? Love the one you're with...and have fun for a while, then tackle another boat project. Great work...fair winds!
JUST DO IT!! (eventually. i agree, get experience first)
I was thinking the samething when you got this this boat. I feel your going to do better in smaller sailboat. I l feel you on all this; you got my vote.
John The Limo Driver from Kansas city
I can understand your points. As I've looked into the expenses, especially docking fees, I can see how much you can save just cutting a few feet off, especially if you don't use it. Plus a shallower keel would definitely open up a lot of inland waterways to you. If your in the islands that could be useful.
The second boat looks like a dagger bored instead if a keel
This is either click-bait, or if actually serious just an excuse to spend another year not sailing 🙄 Abandon Viewers this is getting silly.
I actually own such a seagoing 24-Foot pocket cruiser. A Bandholm 24, about two and a half ton displacement, stationed in Kiel/Wik (berth 600€/season, 120€ per craning). According to my excel-sheet she costs me 1500 €/year. But she`s been built in 1972, so she constantly needs some TLC on changing items, which might double that sum. According to the class Organisation, B24s have even crossed the atlantic ocean. But that must have happened single-handed, because the theoretical hull speed shrinks with the lenght, therefore you need more provisions, while the room available to store them is lenght cubed and passages may get a little bit lengthy at average speeds of 3 knots . I strongly recommend you to stick to Lucy and do some longer passages first. There is a huge benefit in a long waterline. In the aftermath of the last economical crisis, I still don`t see the boat-market recuperated (not even in europe), so there is danger of losing money. Did you ever do such provisioning runs as they did on SV Delos? Did you ever experience lucy´s behaviour in unprotected open waters with really bad weather coming up? I really trust my Bandholm, but i restrict myself to the danish south sea (although she was capable of crossing the north sea) - you don`t need to yet. There is a technique of sailing bigger boats on the cheap : anchoring and mooring. Your freedom is all about finance. Find a way to get a grip on the costs : cheaper insurance, self-made sail maintainance, second hand sails, see those Delos guys or White Spot Pirates.... When it comes to navigation or maneuvering in tides and streams, reaching a safe harbour or anchor bay, its all about hull speed and velocity made good. There is no trading with Newton! Besides : Can you even stretch out and sleep in the center-cockpit of that pirate-style thing?
Hmmn...downsize. I have not met a liveaboard couple or solo sailor who has said I have too much space...not one. Let's put this in perspective and why I think your consideration of downsizing is way premature. You both haven't even ventured into extended cruising yet, going to destinations where you have to carry all your provisions, extra water, spares etc etc. Until you do that, your thoughts of downsizing are not based on experience. What if your RUclips gets bigger and you offer what Sailing laVagabond has, crewed opportunities for patreons etc. Lucy allows for that growth, a 30 footer doesn't. Lucy presents flexibility, safety and future growth. A much smaller boat that I think you're emotionally trying to justify right now, doesn't present the possibilities that Lucy does IMO.
You make some good points for the smaller boat, but I think in rough weather, I'd be happier in the bigger boat. Also, you mention your friends marrying and settling down, so you don't need a "spare room", but you're going to make soooo many new friends on your adventure, it would be nice to be able to invite them onboard sometimes. Then there is also the earning potential... charter the room or let patrons join you every so often?
I have also heard the "go bigger if you can argument." I was actually at a local sailing club party the other day where one person related a story of how they wished they'd gone bigger than their 37 foot boat! Watching this video makes me think I'm right to stick to my plans to get an old Caliber 33. :)
It's your boat, you should do what makes the two of you happy. However, with you being in The Coast Guard, thanks for your service by the way, you know the weather, despite your best efforts, can turn in an instant. I would think putting up with a few extra feet that you don't need, will pay off when you do need them. But, what ever you decide, I look forward to it.
How much of a maintenance difference could it really be on 5 extra ft worth of boat? Not worth the swap from the maintenance argument. The bigger boat will be much more comfortable to walk around on and get some exercise and lounge on.
Also which boat will hold its value better? I think the larger boat will.
We love our 27 but after actually sailing it on trips with provisions, our stuff as well as company, we could stand a little bit bigger. We do have a big dog and a child with us though haha... and we like to have friends come along from time to time. Even if they camp out in a tent, a few more feet would be nice on those trips especially for seating when under sail!! But like you said, sail her first and then decide what suits you best
I live on my 41 ft steel ketch but I need the space to run my business. I tried smaller but that did not work out. Go as small as you feel comfortable with is the best advice you can get! I totally agree with all the reasons you gave to go smaller, Except maybe running a business / Charter / AirB&B is getting more difficult. You two are making great progress form yupies to Old Salts btw :-)
I have a 54 hylas and I think I'm too small you have to get hit by a big storm to really appreciate it and I can do 10 12 knots go smaller is totally nuts 3/4 knots get you nothing you will run in between the waves getting seriously beat up at my size I'm on 2 three waves I am 62 have over 250,000 miles sailing on the ocean you might say I know a bit stay where you are 35 just big enough just big enough Alex
Gerry Spiess crossed the Atlantic in a 12 foot boat, so yes, you can cross the ocean any any size boat. I can tell you from experience, smaller boats are not comfortable long term. The biggest problem is that a small boat can't carry all the spares you need to go cruising. After you fill the tanks, gerry cans, add all the spare parts, tools, and provisions you end up putting them so far below the waterline that they sail like crap and lose their stability. The longer water line of a bigger boat will also make the boat much more comfortable on every point of sail.
I think you guys are doing the right thing by going cruising before making a decision. You will learn a lot by being out there and have a better understanding of what works for you. I started my cruising life a C&C 36, then went to a 27. I sold the little guy a year after getting it, mostly because the tankage was way too small and the boat was tooo slow. Passages took longer, you couldn't sail around squalls due to lack of speed and the motion in a swell was miserable. So you know where my head is at; I just put in an offer on a 42 footer with a centerboard. Bottom line is that you have to do what makes you happy. Can't wait to see where the next few years takes you. Cheers.
Cleary these two supper nice folks never heard of "go big, or go HOME" Don't piss me off now, keep the Lucy.
good points .... if it were still your first boat that your purchasing. Sail the HR for a season first, enjoy the fruits of your labor. the boat will still be there if you really think you can and desire to downsize.
CHRIS S Our thoughts exactly 🙂
I love the whole tiny house/go small movement! My generation (I'm 58) bought in to the 2 cars and a mortgage idea and I'm painfully aware what a slave that has made me to debt. HOWEVER, I would encourage you to not ABANDON SAFETY. I know people "have done it" in smaller boats, but you'll not convince me you won't be giving up some safety.
The golden god in all his glory! Loved it.
Learning the Lines YEAH.....like you two didn't know this was coming 😊😊
Bruce Malo No insider info here!! 😁
Some years ago we made an atlantic circle on a 30 ft boat, several days in wind above 30 knts. We felt always safe, but I would never change a HR352 to a smaller boat. The hulls of the older HR's are very strong and she is a fast boat, some of them made a circumnavigation. I don't know if you can understand german, there was a couple that made a circumnavigation on a HR called White Witch. The Blog is still alive. After the circumnavigation, he sailed the boat singlehanded from the carribean to australia, not the coconut run, but through the southern ocean. When you start cruising the empty space from now, will be the storage area you need.
Crossing require large quantities of food and supplies. Sempre Paratus brother.
Love listening to you two walking through the logic of this consideration. I'm impressed by how you've really captured the essence of what you want to accomplish. You make a very good argument about the pros and cons as they apply to you. Lucy was the right decision when you made it. Another new opportunity (that wasn't available when you decided on Lucy) has presented itself and you're considering it. People get caught up in thinking there is only one "right" decision. There are lot's of right decisions and you two are systematically laying out the elements to decide on one of the right decisions for you.
Bottom line is to enjoy the journey and all the twists and turns along the way.
I really enjoy you two.
Bruce Kackman even if we did ultimately decide a smaller boat is more "us" we believe our HR was the best decision we could make at the time. She's our first boat and we got so many things right with her with knowing as little as we did. Happy to hear you're enjoying this rollercoaster we call our life! We're enjoying it too 🙂 The tough decisions is what making life count is all about.
It may be that you will realize that this boat is much more stable, safe, and sea-worthy than a smaller one and while it is easy to abandon comfort when in a boat yard, it is in rough seas that your need safety margins. You must be alive to have future adventures.
All I can say is do what is right for you. The peanut gallery has it's place and I'm sure you've benefited from it's input in the past. Still you need to put that aside sometimes and follow your own instincts. Keep the videos coming, I enjoy each one!
Personally, i like the idea of having an exta cabin. There is space to expand for watermaker, space for tools and spares, space for paying deckhand should money get tight, less motion at anchor, place to work should a multi day project happen and most important... place to store months worth of food. Many islands food is CRAZY expensive.
Ultimately, like you said... its all in what you two decide you need. Many salors will talk a good game about their boats. Ive never met a mean one, but they will sure con for a sale. 32 to 35 seems like a great size.
Ill be intrested to see how you contemplate this over time.
You guys are getting pretty good at those last end cuts. Good job. And VERY gutsy to share that information. While I applaud you all I'm going to say is I'm glad it is you and not me. I'm too old and need comforts in life. But all that aside I'm excited to watch you enjoy cruising Lucy around a bit. You should get to enjoy her before you part ways with her. And I'll be excited to see your new adventure in smaller boat sailing in the future!
I know what you are saying about smaller is better. I'm a land cruser with a small trailer and would not go bigger for anything. make a list of the advantages of the bigger boat. Consider your need for crew for big crossing, revenue from charter and b&b should be looked at again