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The MCU has done Hulk, Post-Age of Ultron Thor and Black Widow dirty. At least, Sony had the decency to purchase back their ownership on Spider-Man, so they could coerce Feige and the Disney executives to stop making of Peter Parker a comic relief and mockery of teenage boys coupled by a Tony Stark groupie.
What's really disappointing to me is that Avengers showed that Mark Ruffalo can make Bruce legitimately menacing. That initial scene with Black Widow has him being threatening and a little manipulative to knock Nat off balance. It would have been cool to see a more beaten down Bruce using those kind of underhanded means to try to prevent a situation where he has to let the Hulk out. I think it would be a really good way to build tension while exploring Bruce's character outside of the Hulk.
"That initial scene with Black Widow has him being threatening and a little manipulative to knock Nat off balance." This is such a good scene because Natasha is not easily shaken or manupulated. And when he does the little tease by hitting the table, and she draws the gun instantly, he pulls off an almost evil little grin. Like this is the first bit of guilty entertainment he's had in a long time.
This is generally an issue with almost all MCU characters (save for a few like Steve Rogers): That is, the MCU will introduce a comic character as relatively accurate to the source material, and then slowly begin to just write them as their actors
I rewatched Avengers 2012 recently and man, Hulk was one of the biggest highlight of the movie. I legitimately forgot how excited I was to see what was next with this version of the Hulk.
It makes me sad what the MCU has done to the hulk. Hulk is such an interesting character, hulk has been relegated to the background compared to the other characters which is a shame. I feel like hulk should have had a trilogy where banner and hulk learn to work together instead of against one another and become the hero we know he can be. Even though I know they couldn't because of the rights with universal thing.
The reason they don’t is because Universal owns The Solo Hulk movie rights, and it’s not like The Incredible Hulk was that big of a success especially compared to The Dark Knight and Iron Man which came out that same year
It's recently been pointed out to me how well Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes utilized their Hulk. In that particular show, they really emphasize that Banner and Hulk are 2 halves of the same coin. Banner has come to terms with the fact that he is stuck having to share his life with Hulk; there is no magic button he can push to get rid of him. And on the other hand, Hulk is also cursed with sharing the body with Banner. As such, the two end up bargaining with each other for who gets control at certain times. There's even a great episode where Hulk acknowledges that the problem is intellectual in nature and therefore cannot be solved by Hulk. So, he's stuck giving control to Banner.
Yeah, not gonna lie, I rewatched EMH just because of the vid that you probably watched on him too (the Banner Balance by Pile of Garbage?). Hulk/Banner are great in that. I'm surprised by how much I liked his dynamic with Hawkeye.
Dumont, maybe not He seems, harsher Perhaps 'fusing' meant turning Hulk into repressed memories He seems to think the powers come with a Co-pilot, he probs don't exactly know what's with daddy He is, Angry
The 'live and let live' scene being cut from Infinity War is one of the biggest missed opportunities of the MCU, and I think arguably THE biggest one for the Hulk. It would have been so beneficial because it essentially takes the scraps of character development Hulk got in Age of Ultron, Ragnarok, and Infinity War, and cooks them into a viable recipe. I'm still hoping Bruce is a secondary protagonist in She-Hulk and they flesh out his stuff a bit more, and in a perfect world he would be, but I'm highly skeptical.
I agree. These marvel shows are no longer the crescendo masterpieces (by comparison) that were pre endgame movies. Granted not all movies were amazing but at least there was a coherent story arc and the directors were trying to convince the average movie goer to watch the movie by making it not childish and dumb
In the comics hulk always wanted to fight something even if he couldn’t actually win. He always fought out of his league so with thanos I feel like hulk would have wanted to train more and more to get even stronger.
Hulk would have fought Thanos until he beat Thanos like in the comics. He would just got anger and anger until Thanos would have lost to the Hulk just like in the comics without the stones
i think it's more accurate to say he always needed a target to vent the anger and trauma he had bottled up. isn't that why the hulk/banner personalities split.
This isn’t really true, one time in the comics The Void beat Hulk so badly that Hulk started shivering and he was absolutely terrified of The Void and didn’t want to see his face ever again. I can link the comic if you want me to
I actually watched Incredible Hulk again today for the first time in years and frankly he used to be much scarier than whatever he is now. At this point the only way we will get a Hulk of that caliber is if we get Thunderbolt Hulk or "Red" Hulk.
The one thing I never enjoyed is how weak the Hulk generally looked. Hulk is supposed to be a force of nature, the jade giant who can stand up to Gods. There are only a few moments that show that "Hulk is strongest". Especially vs Thanos, they really did him dirty there..
@@lukegeekwalker2689 doesn't matter. Hulk is beyond Thanos' strength even with a single stone. Or at least in the comic he is. In the 1990's Thanos Quest 1 he even admits that he'd rather avoid any conflict with the Hulk. Like I said, they did him dirty in those last Avenger movies
@@arboris it’s no trolling tho. Hulk isn’t nearly as strong as thanos. If you’ve been reading comics thanos fought the Phoenix force to a standstill while hulk got clapped by it
What really bothers me about Infinity War is Hulk would never get scared from an opponent stronger than him, it would just make him more mad and stronger too 😂 I guess it works to set up Thanos as a big bad but Hulk didn't even get a redemption scene against Thanos in Endgame which would've been satisfying
Only reason I accepted that Hulk got beat was cuz it's never happened like that on screen before, it's shocking and unbelievable, especially coming right off of Thor 3 with how unapologetically monstrous, we needed that comeuppance, how did Thor get one but not Hulk? That's messed up
It made sense he got beaten by Thanos. Even in the comics Hulk never beat Thanos hand to hand. What I absolutely hated was the fact that he was supposedly "scared" to come out, which was never even confirmed and was just a running theory with MCU stans. What they did to the Hulk is criminal lmao
It would’ve made more sense if hulk didn’t come out due to losing his pride after losing to thanos, instead of being afraid to fight enemies that aren’t even thanos. It would’ve been good if banner used the iron-hulk to fight, and joking claimed that he didn’t need hulk to fight when he has the mech to do it. In a fit of jealousy and rage, hulk burst out of the suit, destroying it, and then finishing off the thanos minion himself.
@@samuelgiroux6819 In the original concept for Infinity War, Hulk was actually going to burst out of the Hulkbuster suit and beat Cull Obsidian. Thanos still could've won and that would've allowed Bruce and Hulk merging in Endgame make sense as they realise they have to work together instead of being at each other's throats
Something I really appreciate about this video is that you aren't just saying "Hulk isn't the big scary punch monster anymore" like most of the internet. You actually talk about how they threw away any semblance of a character arc for him and stripped him of what makes him interesting
Here’s one interesting idea they could’ve used in endgame. Using the stones to snap was said to mostly give of gamma radiation correct? Hence why hulk could resist it. Why not have hulk absorb so much gamma rays that he reverts back to a savage hulk. Jumping out of the avengers complex right before thanos attacks, and only coming back during the big fight later.
Ur idea is cool,but it would be even more cooler if he dont show up in the fight at all,and later on hes insane from so much gama power he destroys and levels cities,becoming a menace and thus the illuminati sending him to outer space where he aint a threat (jumpstarting Planet Hulk and WBH storylines) not before a hard fight against to subdue him
@@casualcookin3893 True. The Hulk would work as an amazing villain for a story, and the gamma radiation expulsion explains why he would be such a huge threat (as the Hulkbuster wrongly knocked him out in AOU). However, the only thing that concerns me is the age of Mark Rufallo. I mean, the guy is in his mid-fifties and nearing the time where RDJ left his role as Iron Man. I mean, he can't run around and be agile for years and years to come- I know that this is why they have done She Hulk (to pass the role forwards), however, the traditional storyline of Hulk could have been handled WAY better, and maybe a smaller scale version of that idea could work well
@@ollygator7785 I dont like Rufallo as Hulk anyways,i hope they dont fck up She Hulk,as i loved the character as a kid,hope the show doesent suck or be mediocre as the last few marvel shows
@@casualcookin3893 I think that he's an okay Hulk, though I love the character in the comics, so I'm probably feeling some mild bias for him. Though, I get what you're saying with the marvel shows: Wandavision was interesting but feel flat at the end, Falcon and the Winter Solider was cool at times but a little boring, Loki was a mess (tho kinda loved it), Hawkeye was fun at best, Moonkight started great but devolved soon after, Ms. Marvel is pretty alright I guess, and I am Groot looks cute but I doubt that I'll ever watch it tbh. So yeah, She Hulk doesn't have the highest bar to top, but if it does justice to Hulk AND she Hulk, then I'll be happy
I'm actually gonna support Banner in Age of Ultron (for the most part). "I can choke the life out of you without changing a shade", he still felt like a full character with issues and not a punchline in that one, I think Banner was pretty well written. The romance subplot I'll agree isn't inherently bad but wasn't executed as well as it could've been. And I'll also agree, further down the line in the MCU Hulk's character was.. idk just not as fully realized as he was in Avengers (2012)
@I-need-2-winBruce knows General Ross will never allow him near his daughter. Even though she is an adult, he will use his authority and influence to stop him. He cannot stop the Hulk, but Banner will never get a look in
Hulk went from being the strongest one there is, to being a big idiot in Ragnarok, to then being a pathetic mashup of him and Bruce Banner. Only except we don’t get the actual, insanely strong and intense gamma powered hero, that just so happens to have the great mind of Banner. No we just get a green Mark Ruffalo walking around, being all goofy and cannot be taken seriously anymore.
@Class A Content being a good character doesn’t mean being serious all the time. you can still sometimes use hulk for comic relief while actually making him consistent and well-characterized.
@Class A Content a perfect example of this would be knuckles. In the newest sonic film he was serious but also was able to make jokes because he didn’t know certain things. They could’ve done the same with the hulk but instead of that he’s your typical “big dumb brute” to literally shrek
@@B31NGhe wanted to, I guess he was fighting the direction MCU hulk was going. I can't remember if he walked away or if he was forced out and/or fired
Imagine if Thor, after he arrived in Wakanda and kicked all sorts of ass, had had a moment with Bruce and been able to reach the Hulk. Thor could’ve been like their mediator, helping Bruce convince Hulk to come out just this once and starting them on the path to a more balanced relationship.
The transformation scene in Avengers is still one of my all time favorites. The sheer rage is frightening to behold, especially from fragile black widow's perspective. Like holy shit that scene still terrifies me. And it's a blast to see him go punch for punch with Thor which of course ends in a stalemate. He remains THE Hulk for the rest of that movie but from there on out...what should be the most powerful being around continuously gets beat down from movie to movie. First by hulk Buster, then Thor, then Thanos and then he's gone forever. Quite unceremonious if you ask me.
Thats why the the hulk is hard to work with, his origin story and general tone is essentially a horror movie. Arguably one of the hardest genres to write for, and I think at some level these modern hacks know they can't pull it off. A good original hulk movie would have to go full chernobyl with a touch of lovecraft.
The ease with which Banner & Hulk's relationship was resolved bugged me a lot in Endgame. The Russos mention in the commentary track for Endgame that they originally wanted to show the two personalities coming to terms with each other but it would have taken up too much screen time. But if that was the cases then they shouldn't have made such a big issue of the problem during IW. I also think that by having "Professor Hulk" it slightly devalues She-Hulk. It takes away a little bit of her uniqueness (a hulk who retains intelligence) and makes her simply a female counterpart of "smart hulk".
exactly, I would've been more excited for she hulk if they didn't already tread that water with hulk. hulk and she hulk are both just big green comedians and it would've been better if one (preferably bruce) stayed that monster.
Yes. This precisely is the issues. Also, another way they've devalued She-Hulk before the character can even get off the ground is by turning the entire MCU so joke-heavy. If the comedy was dished out sparsely across the films/shows then her comedic flare that she's most known for in the comics would actually stand out like it should. Instead, she's just like everyone else.
Nah, having professor hulk there to teach her doesn't devalue she hulk. It devalues banner and the hulk because they've written her as a Betty Sue that emasculates him both metaphorically and literally by being better than him at everything. They devalued she hulk by writing her as a petty, misandrist ego maniac, who repeatedly tears down established MCU characters for no reason other than to pander to feminists that hate men. Then they tried to delegitimize genuine criticism about the terrible way the character was being handled by smearing detractors of the show as petty misogynists. Disney needs to jump off the band wagon.
@@WhelmedButReady That’s a good point. That first episode had the 2 cousins exchanging joking quips back and forth, and it would’ve been better to have Bruce be more dour and serious to contrast the 2 different personalities and approaches.
One of the issues I have among other things mentioned in the video is that they've basically made Hulk into what made She-Hulk so special. He's not like Professor Hulk in the comics (which is still Hulk but intelligent) and instead just Bruce who's is just big and green now. That should've been Jennifer thing, to be able to be in her Hulk form but still remain Jen more or less because of how she views herself and her Hulk form
I always interpreted Black Widow’s arc in Age of Ultron as her feeling like a monster because she allowed herself to be turned into a weapon by the Red Room. Her inability to have children is just a part of, if not a symbol of that. I don’t know how Whedon intended it because, as we all know, he is a monster but I choose to interpret it that way.
I get where you're coming from but she didn't ALLOW herself to be turned into a weapon, she was forced to. I think even with this more generous interpretation in mind and regardless of Whedon's intent the exact meaning of her words don't really matter, it still sucks ass and shouldn't have been in the movie.
that's how I've always looked at. She's making the classic and very relatable mistake of assuming what other people have always told you about yourselves (especially for those in the position of radically changing you) is the pure truth, is what you indeed are. She's been conditioned to (unfairly) regard herself as a monster because she was created to be the ultimate weapon by monsters, including the gross detail of forced sterilization. And even though of course it wasn't at all her fault, she's a victim of trauma and many people find a way to still blame themselves.
Whedon is a turd for sure, but "monster" is pushing it. There a fair number of iconic and presently working directors who are just as bad if not worse than Whedon. Stanley Kubrick's treatment of Shelley Duvall on the set of The Shining was well-documented to be insanely abusive and is speculated to have contributed to her mental issues. David O'Russell is well-known clashing with his actors Amy Adams confirmed that he made her cry on set of American Hustle. I'm not defending Whedon, but I'm not fond of the bandwagon effect exaggerating how bad he actually is.
@@kevinw712 Yes. Agree completely. But the scene was written kind of oddly, kind of burying this subtler aspect and lending itself instead very easily to misinterpretation.
Honestly, if they had kept that scene of Bruce and Hulk talking inside the Hulkbuster, his arc would've worked a lot better. We were missing that moment in which the two finally become in sync.
My feelings about MCU hulk are so paradoxical. When they reintroduced him in the first Avengers movie, he had elements of both the Ultimates Hulk, and the old TV show - he strangely felt more like the Bill Bixby Banner. I wanted to see this explored: the loneliness and exile of the TV banner, combined with the self awareness and even strange glee the Hulk has in just being the Hulk. This kernel could have followed these aspects over a number of movies, slowly integrating into a single personality that has elements of both: someone who's simultaneously intelligent, kind, and empathetic, but still cranky and hairtrigger (and just a little too fond of a good fight). This Hulk could be a genuinely good person that you still feel a little uncomfortable around because he's got enough of a temper to put a toaster into orbit because it burned his waffles - someone who doesn't feel like he's in exile but instead feels like a travelling adventurer looking for people who need help and anyone who has a problem with him can get smashed. On the other hand , I actually kinda love Professor Hulk - having watched the TV show growing up and having followed his adventures since the late seventies, there is a side of me that feels like the lonely man wandering from place to place always under pursuit DESERVES that kind of end: to be a Hulk that everyone actually likes and could probably sit and read stupid articles written by the journalist that used to chase him just or the LOL's while kicking back in a nice little cabin in Jamaica. Smiling Hulk delivering Taco's is just someone I'd love to hang out with. The problem is, this evolution isn't earned - it's just feels like film-makers trying to throw something unexpected at the audience without actually thinking it through. It's enough of a shift I'm not even sure I'd buy a single Hulk movie explaining the shift from Infinity War to Endgame. There is, however, a way to move this version character forward - I think we can all agree that this Hulk is ultimately TOO chill - he uses his strength half-heartedly - as if he barely takes that aspect of himself seriously. If I were Marvel, I'd do an arc showing that the Hulk is far weaker without his rage, and that in "fixing" himself, Banner has lost something crucial. If he has to face something like, say, the Maestro - where he really would have to be able to tap into both his full level of intelligence AND his full savage strength to even have a chance against them, he'd have to make a pretty fundamental change. I think one of the more obvious tacks is to consider what isolation might have done to both personalities - leaving earth in Ragnarock, losing contact with either Betty or Black Widow, Hulk kinda decided he didn't need anyone. Anger management is much easier when you've given up on caring - this current version may be more a surrender than actual integration. Have him build a happy life for himself that is destroyed, and then have to deal with the fact that that rage might give him the strength to defeat the Maestro, but it is also what puts him at risk of becoming him. Then have him find out it wasn't the Maestro that wrecked his life, it was the Illuminati because they NEEDED a raging hulk in order to win. Boom, World War Hulk....
All of this, yes. I also still wanna see a storyline where Banner and Hulk separate into two different entities. Perhaps in that same Maestro movie. Maestro gloats over a fully human Banner, broken and bloody. He's been losing power since Infinity War era, and now, Meastro gloats, he can't even transform to save his life. "I can't transform...." Banner croaks, "But I can distract you." And Maestro is sent flying. Cut to Hulk, holding a tank like a baseball bat. EDIT: And at some point in that battle, Banners gonna break out an anti-hulk weapon. Which would fit perfectly into the story where Banner and Hulk split, and they get hit by a gamma bomb, disintegrating Banner. Over time, Hulk begins to lose time, realizing he's turning into Banner as he sleeps. And Banner is seemingly creating a weapon, and using Hulk to do it. That storyline ends with Banner proving that he could kill Hulk if he wanted. But has decided not to, in favor of working together. Which leads to Hulk and Banner hot-swapping their control, and even a little Professor Hulk, too!! Banner even solos a few enemies, with his superior weaponry (that he designed, himself). Great storyline.
One of the biggest missed opportunities and what makes the Hulk character so frightening is his transformation....whedon did it perfectly in Avengers and then its never been seen again. The uncontrollable rage of him not wanting to change but the Hilk just taking over and asserting dominance, and the resulting reaction of whoever is present at the time.
Seeing Joe Fixit in the MCU would be quite the sight to see! I honestly want them to delve into Bruce's past, show his father, confirm to the comic fans that the MCU's Savage Hulk is still just an angry kid and they'll explore Bruce's D.I.D. Similar to what they did in Moon Knight, but make it more mature and closer to the Immortal Hulk comics.
@@wayfaringstranger8430 true, but it's a neat concept to think about. An Immortal Hulk storyline in the MCU would be so interesting, even with different characters.
@@AndrewDukes It pretty much has. I mean everyone said yrs ago, don't worry, he'll be in She Hulk, and we'll get better Hulk moments. Well She Hulk came and went and what did we get from him? Just more silly Endgame Hulk who doesn't do very much. Ruffalo's Hulk has run his course, and they are never going to utilize him properly. The Hulk needs a reboot at this point.
@@henryoil he was barely in the show, and we actually learned more about Bruce banner in she-Hulk than we have in any other movie.. even the Hulk movie itself. He’s isolated himself from his family and friends due to his trauma.. they even acknowledge this in the show and Jen calls him out on it. And in the finale they very clearly set up world war Hulk, so if you truly believe he’s done then you’re objectively wrong because they’re very clearly setting up another storyline with him
@@AndrewDukes Dude there is no way we are getting WWH. The current MCU Hulk doesn't even have the right tone for it. If this was Ruffalo's Hulk straight out of 2012's Avengers, that would be different, but the damage is done now, Ruffalo's Hulk is just way too light, he lacks the gravitas for such a movie. Any attempt by the current MCU to use Ruffalo's Hulk in a WWH movie would be a disaster. Its best they don't even bother.
@@henryoil “way too light” bruh we haven’t gotten a solo Hulk story since 2008. She-Hulk gave us the most back story for Bruce than any other MCU film and he was barely in the show. Not only that but don’t act like Hulk has never had never had any light hearted stories in the comics. Once Nick Fury wanted to calm the Hulk down so he surrounded him in tiny puppies and Hulk thought they were so cute he reverted back to Banner. Nobody ever complains about that. But let that happen in the MCU and y’all would be whining about it smh 🤦🏻♂️
13:22 I've long wondered if Bruce telling Tony in Infinity War when the Black Order shows up "yeah but since when do I get what I want" was a fully known callback to this moment
I feel like the “balance” of Hulk and Banner was out of place and way too soon. For almost all movies before hand we grow to love both personalities within this character and see the conflict with themselves but after Infinity War it feels like they just rushed their conclusion. Hulk lost to Thanos and refused to come out and banner having to learn to get by with only his own humanity and what happens next? Hulks personality gets killed off screen and all that’s left is husk of what he used to be with Banner just being comic relief.
Much of this is the fault of the Russo Brothers. Their heart was just not in Hulk's story at all and sadly it showed. They were just not the right team for the Hulk character, that is one character they failed with miserably.
I thought it was such a weird talking point when Moon Knight came out that 'here's an MCU character with DID' because we've had Hulk for years. But it's not so weird really when you consider that if you're not a comic book fan you don't really understand that Bruce HAS DID. The lack of development and build up that these are distinct personalities, as opposed to Hulk just being a 'monster' and heightened rage, that Bruce had a traumatic and abusive childhood and even repressed memories, or that Bruce has many other personalities inside him (that can also access the gamma radiation) all lead to MCU Bruce/Hulk having none of the driving elements that make me adore solo Hulk comics. I did hope that Sakaar would lead to a Caiera Oldstrong and Skaar storyline (and maybe it will in the future, Marvel seems intent on 'Next Gen' characters like Wanda's kids Billy and Tommy, and Cassie Lang, etc) but we haven't gotten anything like that. Having Bruce have to confront his inner demons about his past, and his dad, as well as years spent as Hulk without control, all in order to be a dad to a kid who also has trauma and DID would be such an interesting way to move him forward. Especially if the project was 'focused' on Skaar to get around Universal's problem, but still had to thoroughly build up Bruce's character to drive the story. Instead we got... Infinity War, Endgame and now She-Hulk. Living the dream out here.
2008's The Incredible Hulk is absolutely the underappreciated gem of the MCU. I love it, and it has my prefered look for Hulk, too. I do like what I refer to as the Gorilla style Hulk from Avengers onward, his arms are a bit longer or at least feel longer with how he's more hunched, but the design in 2008, sure, it's a bit cartoony, but man, I love the giant hands and feet and wider profile, it really works for me and I miss it so much. Also, when are we gonna get The Leader since he was set up? Get your head out of your ass Universal and push your weight around like Sony did with Spider-Man, set out to make a Hulk movie and make Marvel Studios play ball. As for Hulk in Infinity War, according to the audio commentary, Hulk isn't scared, he's tired of being forced to play the hero, which I say is absolutely not what is implied with him being trounced by Thanos. Hulk doesn't want to come out and fight because he feels like he's being objectified, like he's just another tool in the belt of the Avengers? That's actually not a bad idea for a story, but in Infinity War of all things? Makes much more sense that he's scared because Thanos took him down with skilled fighting prowess in a matter of seconds. And yeah Endgame, man, I mean, I like that Bruce and Hulk found a way to coexist, but we didn't really get any of the journey of that, and I love your martial arts ideas. Everything with Captain Marvel in Endgame is pretty underwhelming because she is so overpowered and underdeveloped for this massive journey we have been on because she was only introduced a few months earlier and was absent the whole movie, never even went on the Time Heist. All the guns turn on just her? She couldn't have even come flying in with a bunch of Nova Corps ships flanking her? Would've made more sense even if she could still blow up Thanos' ship all by herself. I do like the little exchange where Thanos headbutts her and resorts to the Power Stone to get her away from him, but yeah, I'd have liked to see the Hulk keep him distracted and maybe even nearly break Thanos' wrist to keep him from snapping his fingers. Hulk deserved better. There's great moments sprinkled throughout the MCU, but more could have been done. A lot of it probably comes down to cost and time management, but they also just shot themselves in the foot making him Professor Hulk where he has to be a big CGI man all the time now.
@@dani4157 I've heard the reasoning why they removed him was because Edward Norton is notorious in meddling with scripts, and that just wasn't going to fly with Avengers and kind of the general plan going forward with the MCU until it was a more surefire thing. He is really great though, and undoubtedly, The Incredible Hulk is better for him and his presence. I also really like the smaller and leaner frame he has becoming this giant roided out guy, it really sells better than Mark Ruffalo's body. Perhaps had he been able to retain the role, he would have pushed harder for more solo Hulk movies. Oh well, I guess that's just another cracked-mirror universe we don't get to visit.
"thanos won against the Hulk through skill" also because apparently injuries are not thing in the MCU. Takes a lot to make Thanos bleed but he still can, but blunt force trauma doesn't seem exist considering Hulk was almost exclusively trying to cave in Thanos's skull
I really loved the chemistry between Banner ,and Romanov. I'm not sure why it didn't work for you. I thought it was great. When professor hulk said he tried to bring Nat Back I felt for the green guy.
The dichotomy of meek man and big green monster was what made him interesting to me. Making him a meek green man as he is now...just isn't as interesting to watch. It just stops the hulk character from developing past Thor Ragnorak, leaving us only with green Bruce
You know I recently read the entire Immortal Hulk comic run recently and I was reminded why I love this character, he’s a horror story. A fear of the atomic age and the destructive power and hubris of man. A Jekyll and Hyde for the modern age. With how they’ve built the Hulk within the confines of only being a cameo character I don’t think we’ll ever truly see the horror of the Hulk. End-Game was the point of no return, he has to be a sanitized joke guy now who’s being phased out in favor of She-Hulk, which while I am also a big fan of She-Hulk I really wish we got something more out of the og before phasing him out.
Thank you I’ve been saying they could make the hulk movies fresh by making it a Psycho Horror thriller…. Banner struggling to keep the Beast in.. the look of fear trembling and terror on the soldiers faces before getting crushed. A MIGHTY but disgusting and grotesque monster at the end for the hulk to fight. The feeling of banner being cursed, from a normal scientist to being a MAD SCIENTIST after the hulk is introduced a supremely strong heartless beast. next film hulk gets fleshed, and hulk has a range of emotions fear, sorrow and he too feels cursed and ultimately it’s revealed the weapon of destruction just wants peace. Leads up to the combination and reconciliation PROFESSOR HULK actually making him…Badass huge lazer guns outwitting his opponent smart and strong and kinda funny. Proving himself a true hero
I'd personally love to see Mark Ruffallo lend his voice to an animated continuation of the 1970s Hulk TV show. He at least is capable of conveying the vulnerability of Bruce (or in the show: David) Banner
My son is autistic and struggles with balancing emotional extremes. Hulk is by far his favorite and I asked him why. He said that he understands the explosive anger Bruce has and relates to the challenge of drives to just explode with rage. I love the idea of the juxtaposition of intense emotional expression and integrating constructive soothing techniques/various martial arts for more focused fighting and (let's face it) total domination!! Big emotions are ok but I too would have preferred a laser focused badass over an overpowered geek. Anyway, thanks as always!! We both love your content.
Y'know, I know this is a Hulk video, but I just wanna clarify that Black Widow thing because a lot of critics say the same thing that was brought up in this. They started talking about her being unable to have kids, yes, and then she says this: “One less thing to worry about, the one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier, even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?” See the flow of thought? It's not being unable to have kids that makes her a monster; it's that, more than any other person on the team (except probably Hulk), she finds killing easy. That's why she relates to Bruce. When she's on a mission, it's akin to Bruce being Hulked out---nothing will get in her way. Not Steve being concerned that she didn't tell him about her separate instructions from Fury (Winter Soldier), and not even Hawkeye trying to save her own life (Endgame). The Black Widow will see her goals done through to the end.
I honestly don't know why so many people think it's that she's a monster because she can't reproduce. Clearly she's a monster because she's been trained and borderline brainwashed into being an efficient killing machine. She's had her humanity taken away
Smart Hulk is the worst thing the MCU has done to one of their main heroes. What makes the Hulk interesting is the conflict between him and Bruce Banner, and this not only gets rid of that conflict, but they did it off-screen.
Fun Fact: Universal owns The Incredible Hulk which is why he may or may not show up in Multiversus. It's almost the same as the Sony Spider-Man situation. Disney is not allowed to make solo Hulk films without Universal. It's all a big mess.
Better for us though, Hulk isn't a standalone character tbph. He's there for smashes and he's there for the big brain meetings, that's his entire character, Bruce and Hulk.
@@GothAtheist Not entirely. There have been stories that delve into Banner's psyche and how having to share a body with other personalities has left him unstable.
@@GothAtheist That’s a lie. Hulk works having solo stories. You can do a deep, psychological story about Bruce finding ways on how to be rid of the green monster inside him. Trying to find a cure. Only to realize that ultimately, this monster is the key to keeping himself, and others safe. And plus, Hulk has a decent amount of villains to pull. One of them is The Leader. A villain all about brains and intelligence instead of pure strength. Which makes him a perfect foil for both Bruce and his Hulk persona.
I'm not even halfway through the video yet so I don't know if you mention this but Bruce Banner gives me different vibes in Avengers 2012 that I don't see again really. In Avengers he carries a much heavier presence that seems to match his character. A genius man with the burden of having the most dangerous thing on earth dwell within him. I haven't seen Ultron too many times so he might still have the vibe in there but after that he turns into a joke. He becomes a clueless nerd caught in a violent conflict. It feels like he doesn't even have the Hulk in him anymore. They feel much more separate. Which makes him turning into Professor Hulk feel a lot more out of place. Not only did we skip over the arc he goes through to become that, but it feels like we degressed in the arc since 2012. If I am wrong about anything please fill me in.
They rushed his professor hulk arc way too fast imo.. it looks jarring like you said, there was still more hulk to explore imo Also how jokey he was in infinity war was so out of place.. if Bruce can't turn in to the hulk, surely he'd use his smarts instead??
I haven’t seen Age of Ultron in, well, ages, but one scene I remember is Banner hiding outside of the quinjet before Wanda witches him. And in that scene, if I remember correctly, he carries the kind of nervous, anxious weight of “Can I come out now? Is it safe for me not to be a danger anymore?” that shows that he is still really messed up inside. And even in the party scene, he makes a “turning into Hulk” joke that seems really ill-received and kinda shows how he is trying (but still failing) to accept Hulk as a regular, intentional part of his life
I agree with you about the different vibes Banner gives off though. Isn’t he always angry? Isn’t his ridiculously suppressed and absurdly intense rage the reason he can turn into Hulk in the first place? Avengers 2012 Banner felt like he was always trying not to snap, and that left after AOU
Avengers Hulk walking around the helicarrier super carefully like if he bumps into something he might explode is a great little detail. Not because hes afraid of getting hurt, but because he doesnt want to be responsible for hurting *everyone else*.
The "I LOVE YOU!" from Banner talking to Hulk...that scene should've been left in. Marvel now knows that people will watch 3+ hour movies if they're good, but they have to be GOOD. So they should keep as much of the original script in the movies as possible.
"Why big green man no smash no more?" The hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets right? So.. with that lore already in check, a hulk who is at peace with himself is going to be a lot weaker and it makes sense cannonically.
Imagine if Bruce Banner being in the Shang chi post credit scene is never addressed and he’s just professor hulk from now on. Part of me wouldn’t be surprised
17:10 I’ve always found this take incredibly, ludicrously reductive, and I think you have to actively not be paying attention to what Age of Ultron is actually saying to co-sign it. No, Nat is NOT calling herself a monster because she “can’t have kids”. She’s calling herself a monster because part of her bodily autonomy was taken away so she could be *better at murdering people.* Really peeves me that “no babies = monster” is still all some people take away from that arc after 7 years.
I agree completely. Although it could still be seen as undermining to what the hulk has had to go through with Nat saying she shares the same burden, but even then it doesn't necessarily come across that way in the movie. I actually thought it was an interesting direction for Black Widow's character.
I'm still not sure what that has to do with her killing? It's better to say she's efficient at killing anyone INCLUDING children, and THAT'S what makes her a monster Whatever that dialogue was in the movie, it wasn't good enough
Hulk has always been my favourite marvel character since I was little and I completely agree with you it’s so depressing the one character I love the most can’t have a proper solo film until universal give the rights back but shouldn’t they’ve expired by now like sony etc had to keep making films to keep the rights
I can only imagine how deadly hulk could be if he was as smart as Banner. Merging the two, you would get an angry, possessive, remorseless character who can easily make biological and artificial weapons to enhance his strengths. No one would ever cross him, and he would have full awareness of this. I picture that he would be very possessive of his lab and work -- "Tony, if you touch that wire, I will tear you limb from limb. Stay out." He would have been so, so badass and interesting.
You actually kind of changed my mind about the Hulk with this video. Before, I just didn't really like the Hulk at all, but now I'm... kinda sad about the fact that he was just completely sidelined.
The Hulk used to be one of my favorite character and this video remidned me on why. I really wish they would have waited to bring in Professor Hulk until later, because seeing him make that transformation off screen was flabbergasting. I do wish they would have leaned more into the dynamic of Bruce balancing his life with Hulk & their relationship with Natasha; the stuff that was there about these relationships was good, there just wasn't enough. Also, a good way to bring professor Hulk in could have been during the second snap because of the comprimise that would happen between the 2 + the infinity stone magic. But yeah, Marvel kinda did this great character dirty. (Although I really do like Mark Ruffalo in that role)
I always thought being around the other avengers and forging those bonds made him more accepting of his situation and pulled him out of the dark place he was in. I'm fine with funny hulk, but the one from the first avengers movie was definitely more interesting
Natasha isn't a monster because she can't have kids. She's a monster because the thing that anchors her in community and as a woman is something she gave up for the sake of killing. Rather than being one who nurtures and protects life, she is one who has nothing but red in her ledger. She gets her redemption arc in Endgame - she sends Clint home to his family, she does what she should've been able to do for a long time, to give hope, and sacrifices herself for that cause. This is a similar core character issue as Bethany in Kevin Smith's Dogma. As Alan Rickman's Metatron says: "You're being given the chance to play mother to the whole world, by protecting it." The fact that people reduce the hysterectomy to purely about "having kids" rather than having kids itself be a full realization of Natasha's desire to be more than Black Widow, more than the killer, but to protect, raise, and restore all the red on her ledger - to form family bonds and be anchored in community - is an absolutely baffling misread of the scene and of her character.
Hulk is my favourite superhero, and to see the way he's been mishandled and thrown to the wayside slightly is extremely disheartening. It feels like a pipedream that Hulk quite literally used to be Marvel's second most popular character after Spiderman, but that was genuinely how it was pre-mcu. The fact they have not explored the relationship between Hulk and banner nearly enough, not delved into an extremely rich and harrowing backstory, made the character a bit of a joke for laughs is just a little depressing. Especially as someone who grew up reading the planet Hulk comic.
About that Age of Ultron scene with Black Widow, people MASSIVELY misinterpret what she's saying there. She isn't saying, "I can't have kids; you think you're the only monster here?". She's saying, "I **gave up** my ability to have kids - to create and new life and bring into the world, to make myself more effective at ending life; you think you're the only monster here?" Those are 2 vastly different statements and ideas. She isn't a monster because she's sterile; she's a monster because she willing became sterile purely to become a more efficient killing machine
There is so much left that is interesting to explore with the Hulk. Grey Hulk, Doc Sampson, Rick Jones, The Maestro, The Pantheon. They just have other things they want to do more.
I thought, with him being an actor and all, Mark Ruffalo had to try to transform himself into the Hulk as a character. I wasn’t aware you could just reverse it and make the Hulk transform into Mark Ruffalo.
Totally agree with what you said about The Incredible Hulk, especially the last fight. Its a good movie with great action and I really don’t understand a lot of the criticism it gets given that the MCU has done worse with the likes of Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Ant Man 2, and almost all of the D+ shows.
Idk I didn't find any of the action that great, it was just super boring, but that is my opinion. Also the cgi on the Hulk kind of makes it hard to watch too for me
It's cause a lot of criticts expect a great story out of what is essentially a movie about two monsters fighting themselves. Kinda like with King Kong VS Godzilla. Low ratings cause of the story when you just wanna see them fight.
@@Rebelrose thor ragnarok, ant man, ant man and the wasp, captain marvel all didn't have good stories. why did they get less hate than this movie, I don't get it fr
Honestly based off this video, all it seems Hulk needed was the cut Infinity War scene, maybe a tweak to show Hulk is still there, but Banner gets to be in charge now. Then in Endgame, a few conversations between Banner/Hulk to show they're working together instead of Banner fully in charge, a foreshadowy "I got this one big guy" when Banner does the Snap, then the payoff "This one mine Puny Banner" as Hulk lets out his new fighting style, informed by Banner's brains, for the big 4v1 Thanos fight
I completely agree, and think that the Hulk was catastrophically wasted, especially in Endgame, as the Hulk personality is basically neutered. I would do something slightly different for him in Endgame. When he's holding up the compound, the rage at losing Natasha along with the burst of gamma causes the reawakening of the Hulk personality. After lifting the compound off his friends, he roars at Thanos and attacks him. Using Bruce's intelligence and Jujitsu techniques in tandem with his raw power and gladiator training, he pummels Thanos. As his eyes glow green, he yells "Hulk Smash!" and cracks Thanos' armour. Then he thunderclaps Thanos, knocking him off his feet and through a small hill of debris and continues on a rampage against his forces, perhaps to save someone else.
Imagine a world where Bruce comes to terms with the Hulk like in the deleted scene in endgame, and just as they finally work things out, Thanos does his snap, and suddenly the Hulk turns to dust, and banner is left standing. Gives a brilliant opening for banner to have a reason to be happy in a post snap world, gives him conflict on unsnapping all the victims, and even lets them move forward onto professor Hulk as the snap has "unforeseen circumstances" then we get professor Hulk as he is now. Fast forward to now, a new Hulk film, or show, something along those lines, and you could have professor Hulk start having nightmares and hallucinations of the Hulk accusing banner of locking him up, wasting his potential. "All that talk of love, just to put me back in the cage" There was a line Hulk could have gone on, and little would've changed, and been all the more nuanced a character for it
18:58 Thanos shouldn't have been able to overpower him THAT easily, until he had more stones. They should have had a pretty epic fight and Thanos just clearly edge him
One of the problems with Thanos being the ultimate antagonist that he was is that not everyone could have their satisfying moment against him or their rematch or a cathartic end to their relationship. Drax for example, Nebula for another, Thor got his “I went for the head moment” but ultimately it of course came down to Stark, now I love that it did but the very nature of it is that not everyone could have their moment. I actually really like that Banner/Hulk didn’t feel the need for a round 2, he went down a different path and for me it was the smart choice otherwise Endgame would need to be another half hour to give everyone their moment against Thanos, not that I or I imagine anyone would complain at that. Do I think they’ve maybe gone for the smart Hulk angle too soon, yeah probably, but who’s to say we won’t get a Worldbreaker Hulk in the future, imagine if he was the threat the Thunderbolts have to go up against for example? That makes sense to me. As to why he goes down that path I can’t say, maybe he just loses it if Clint dies and he is the only original Avenger left? Shame they already used Planet Hulk so that can’t be the resolution to a worldbreaker storyline but maybe Scarlet Witch or Strange or someone else can bring him back
I'm sorry but now that you mentioned Drax I think he deserved a scene with Thanos way more than Iron Man. I know Statk began the MCU and all of that but he really has little personal grievances with Thanos outside being waht he sees as his greatest failure; but I guess that is the point, maybe his arc could end with him not needing to be centerstage, not needing the glory or the fame, not necessarily an actual death but an ego one; I reckon that would've been very cathartic.
Kinda off topic, but I still can’t believe that thanos was almost defeated in infinity war, but star lord couldn’t keep his cool and f’d it all up. I didn’t think much of that scene when first watching the movie, but now that I’ve remembered it, seems like a really cheap way to almost beat thanos.
It's always seemed so weird to me that Hulk, probably one of the top three Marvel characters (in terms of public recognition at the start of the MCU at least) gets almost all of his character development off-screen. Like, I don't hate Professor Hulk at all, he's a great character, but Marvel skipping over how Bruce went from broken and unable to even bring the Hulk out in an end of the world scenario to Professor Hulk is criminal. It's hard to see how they can fully explore a lot of Hulk's themes anymore, with where the character is currently. Banner has to be isolated and alone for you to really understand his curse. Where he is at the moment, everyone loves him, kids are walking up to Hulk and asking for selfies, it just doesn't work. I guess they could explore the interim between Infinity War and End Game, have him feel useless after the snap, have the isolation be self-imposed, and maybe Bruce tries some things to bring out the Hulk and it goes badly and we get some of the other versions of Hulk making an appearance. That could work, although Black Widow kind of put me off the idea of going back and exploring time between other movies, because nothing in that movie felt it had any weight or mattered to what we know came next. The only other way I can see it working is that you take maybe a character like the Leader, boost his psychic abilities and have him control Hulk to do some bad stuff, make him the villain in the public perception again. Maybe even hide that this is what's happening at first, pitch it as Bruce/Hulk losing control and going too far and he goes more and more off the rails, questioning who is in control, he is forced underground, we get to explore some of his other personas, and then maybe the realisation that Hulk and Bruce need to work together to stop what's being done to them. I dunno though, it feels like maybe the ship has sailed already on another big solo Hulk project. I'm still looking forward to She Hulk so I guess let's see where that leaves our jolly green giant by the end.
I completely agree. Although, now I'm getting really tired getting let down by Disney/marvel on how they ridicule every character just because having a dramatic character could lead the audience to feel bad emotions. The Hulk is my favourite character (in comics) and I have wanted a Hulk movie for a long time, but I really think they're going to sideline him. Maybe he could be a mentor for the Young Avengers. I hope a little that something happens in the SheHulk show that takes him back to a darker place or maybe just seeing abomination brings back an imbalance to his relationship between hulk and Bruce or maybe, in the future, there will be a Hulk Family show/film that could see him as a leader, but sadly I doubt that. The MCU needs to understand that the contrast between a dramatic character like bruce and a fun one, like Thor, would benefit even the comedy. If everyone is funny, than no one will be truly funny. I hope my comment makes some sense
When Infinity war ended I was very intrigued in where he Hulk's journey was heading. Bruce literally teases on it saying him and hulk is gonna have a lot of conversation. And at the Endgame, they just skipped his character progress off screen and made him a comic relief. People seemed to have laughed on the Taco scene but I actively facepalmed.
i think another thing is that the movies are a lot more accessable than the comics, so myself and a lot of other mcu fans had no context for 'proffessor hulk' (which if i remember right he isnt even refered to as) as this 'development' came even more out of nowhere. i wouldve loved to see him actually deal with his shit. i think a lot of the mcu movies could handle having a bit more texture to them. far from home was a rad movie but i wouldve loved to see it touch on heavier topics of imposter syndrome and loss. black widow has one of the heaviest backstories out of the avengers and her movie felt like such a disservice to her. we dont see a lot of the actual trauma of her childhood, or what she is fighting for, a lot of it is left to be implied but for an origin story esque movie they had a lot more story to play with. and hulk is left totally underused and underdeveloped. we know next to nothing about the person bruce or the moster of hulk. we dont get to see them enough to know how one feels about the other besides quips in ragnarok. sometimes it feels as though we are expected to already have this context going into the movies.
What if we had seen Bruce in Endgame as ...just Bruce. He hasn't turned into Hulk since Infinity War ended. He is finally free but not happy. He finally has what he's wanted for years but feels like he has a part of him missing. Instead of Hulk running around saving people, he's doing it as Bruce Banner. Using his own genius intellect to fight crime and create technologies to help people. Then they go through the whole scenario with the tine heist and when Brice asks Clint where Nat is, he falls into despair and loses control and all his anger and rage slips out releasing the Hulk, but this time it's like the World War Hulk, where both Brice and Hulk are working together making them stronger and smarter than usual. We get a rematch with Thanos where Hulk nearly kills the mad titan only to be stopped when Thanos activates an infinity stone.
I think you hit the nail on the head off the hop, the Universal relationship is the issue. I think we often forget the biz side of these films and this one is very much a combo of that relationship and some soft grosses on the 2 standalones. I love the hulk, but from the biz side, I think this situation will continue to park him the back and in the passenger seat at best.
She Hulk Ep 1: Im excited to see Bruce jealous of Jen and loved to see him let out a bit of rage in their fight She Hulk Ep 2: Im conflicted because I dont understand why he's left the planet with all the gear/equipment and I can only remain hopeful that his Prof Hulk form will dissipate and result in an even angrier, stronger Hulk
I agree with you. Hulk has been ruined. They just erased fourteen years of character development in Endgame by removing the character entirely. All that is left is Banner. Hulk no longer exists. It's such a waste of a character. I do disagree that 2008 Hulk was good though. It was rather meh.
I know Ang Lees 2003 film isn’t looked upon kindly, but I still think that film does a great job at showing a unique take on the darkness of the hulk. In the film, Hulk is a sort of hidden anger and resentment to Banners father, who experimented on him and killed his mother. This in turn causes Banner to develop a temper when his past life is mentioned, going so far as to scream at his dad when he makes an appearance after the accident. When hulk initially comes out, you see that it’s the bottled up anger from all those years ago finally all coming back, and Hulk is the trauma given to Bruce punishing the world. Even when his dad tries to calm him down, you see the memories of the good life Bruce had as a baby, but the pure hatred against his father for what he did causes the hulk to snap back to his angry self. I think it’s a great commentary on the cycle of abuse and how abusive parenting lasts long after the parent is gone from the picture. I know people like to say the film is a bore because it’s not just “hulk smash” all the time, but I think if it were released today, it would’ve been treated just like Joker was in 2019, and it would’ve been considered a deeper take on the superhero genre. And I wish that some inspiration would be taken from it in terms of story and action, because I don’t care what anyone says, hulk vs the tanks is mad hype
I always thought that the possibility Black Widow, underneath it all, was actually leading on Bruce in order to make sure The Hulk would never try to kill her again was the overall root of their tension. She has to have known that Betty was able to calm him, and, considering he is the only one that could/would kill her, she wouldn't take any chances. Hulk's guilt over his South African rampage, and understanding that this team only uses him for his strength and would rather have Banner around, made him depressed enough to leave Earth all together the first chance he gets.
Universal apparently won't allow it. Personally I wouldn't have minded seeing Universal bring back the same cast from the 2008 movie and making a sequel. But now it's probably to late. I think Disney/Marvel might be getting the rights back to the Hulk in 2023. Maybe then we will get another Hulk movie or TV show.
I feel like there was a HUGE and irresponsibly missed opportunity in Infinity War with having Bruce in the Hulkbuster suit having hulk bust out of the suit (heh pun) and helping thor change the obvious tide in wakandas battle with the outriders. And then to add on even is to have still the scene with all of the avengers trying to stop Thanos and still not be able to but with one huge difference being that the last 2 avengers being that of Thor and Hulk also trying to stop Thanos and giving him a really good run for his money in a very tensionfilled and serious fight somewhat reminiscent of having Dr strange trying to keep Thanos from using the gauntlet as much as possible but still inevitably having Thanos the winner of the fight that would have made for a epic finale to an already amazing movie with some minor edits to it and fixing hulks character by having him and Bruce make up and try to beat Thanos with thor tag teaming with hulk as well.
my dream of the next MCU Hulk solo movie would take notes from how the Breaking Bad Universe utilizes flashbacks or "missing scenes" to emphasize character growth/development. Vince Giligan and Peter Gould used this a lot in El Camino and used it even more especially in this last season of Better Call Saul. The characters of Jesse Pinkman and Saul/Gene/Jimmy were developed and concluded really well with the flashback scenes contributing further context and emphasis to how far the characters have gone to the contrast of succeeding scenes in the present timeline. I can imagine this being used with "missing scenes" from the movies that Hulk has appeared in and contrast them with the current character conflict being done in the "present timeline" of the movie. Will Vince Giligan or Peter Gould ever take on an MCU project? I hope so!
3:43 Gotta say I disagree - I feel like Thor is the one whose story in team-ups has felt the most poorly thought out and thrown together, particularly as Infinity War & Endgame just immediately undo any development he really had in Ragnarok (including getting rid of the physical scars). I do, however, agree with the general point that Hulk's been underserved, and the main problem is that he's been forced to get all his development in ensemble films or team-ups in which he is *not* the main character, which has led to a rushing of all the points they wanted to hit, even pushing some off-camera. I don't think anyone can convince me that Infinity War/Endgame were best served by Hulk refusing to come out throughout the events of IW then a "Professor Hulk" situation being established off-camera in Endgame - all they needed to do was have a slight breakthrough (Hulk begrudgingly agreeing to help in the finale, then being too far away/still unable to stop Thanos) and it would at least make some sense.
@@ThePonderer I guess just call it "why the hulk in endgame was better than you think" or something like that 😭 probably something that stands out more than what I said~~
The thing I'm most sad about is that the way the mcu is going we'll never get to see the World War Hulk storyline, which is my personal favorite marvel storyline ever.
Great video, as always. Endgame felt like a letdown to everything they had built up for every character. I have a theory though, which I doubt will be the case, that the reason they didn’t show us them resolve their issues and merge is because Bruce is lying. From what we’re shown, Bruce and Hulk are two separate individuals, with their own thoughts and feelings. Professor Hulk though seems to be entirely Bruce’s mind with access to Hulk’s body and strength, but what does Hulk get out of this deal? I feel like Bruce trapped Hulk in the equivalent of the sunken place from Get Out or Malkovich, and hopefully World War Hulk (if it’s not cancelled) will be Hulk breaking out.
In Age of Ultron, Natasha doesn't think she's a monster because she's infertile, she thinks she's a monster because she's a coldblooded murderer. The way the line is phrased makes it sound like it's the infertility thing that weighs on her conscience, so it makes sense that you (and pretty much everyone else) got the wrong impression from that scene. In Infinity War, Hulk doesn't cooperate because he's sick of being Bruce's "Get of of Jail Free" card. The director's commentary of the movie makes it clear that Hulk was removed from that story to force Bruce to be the self-reliant hero for once. It had nothing to do with being afraid of Thanos. That said, I still think Prof Hulk bursting out of the Hulkbuster suit would be the better course of action, especially because after that fight, we see Natasha try to do the Lullaby, only for Banner to say "Don't worry, we figured it out." Ultimately, I do agree that Prof Hulk opening a martial arts can whoop-ass on Thanos in place of Captain Marvel in Endgame would've been awesome. And maybe the reason he's still beaten (forcing Tony to take the Stones) could have something to do with his fried arm.
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Thought I was the only one who thought modern hulk had a problem
Ok but how do you feel about the Hulk getting cucked by she hulk in the new show? I refuse to watch it for myself. Just more woke garbage from MsheU
The MCU has done Hulk, Post-Age of Ultron Thor and Black Widow dirty.
At least, Sony had the decency to purchase back their ownership on Spider-Man, so they could coerce Feige and the Disney executives to stop making of Peter Parker a comic relief and mockery of teenage boys coupled by a Tony Stark groupie.
Aron
Maybe Hulk can take on a Thanos Variant during secret wars with all the martial arts stuff
What's really disappointing to me is that Avengers showed that Mark Ruffalo can make Bruce legitimately menacing. That initial scene with Black Widow has him being threatening and a little manipulative to knock Nat off balance.
It would have been cool to see a more beaten down Bruce using those kind of underhanded means to try to prevent a situation where he has to let the Hulk out. I think it would be a really good way to build tension while exploring Bruce's character outside of the Hulk.
Incredible Hulk did this and I seriously wish they would go back to that
"That initial scene with Black Widow has him being threatening and a little manipulative to knock Nat off balance."
This is such a good scene because Natasha is not easily shaken or manupulated. And when he does the little tease by hitting the table, and she draws the gun instantly, he pulls off an almost evil little grin. Like this is the first bit of guilty entertainment he's had in a long time.
@@AndrewThoesen it also showed that she was genuinely afraid of him, something that's not easy to do is scare Natasha
This is generally an issue with almost all MCU characters (save for a few like Steve Rogers):
That is, the MCU will introduce a comic character as relatively accurate to the source material, and then slowly begin to just write them as their actors
@@stanfordfeynman2796 ¿?
Hulk ripping out abomination's elbow bone and stabbing him with it is one of the best things I've ever seen in the MCU.
So brutal and savage...it was a rare but excellent moment of the MCU not holding back on some bloody violence, and it was epic.
Ya me too
This hulk 2008 version can rip Thanos
Not mcu, and ed nortons idea
@@theserpent8667it wasn't owned by Disney at that time
I rewatched Avengers 2012 recently and man, Hulk was one of the biggest highlight of the movie. I legitimately forgot how excited I was to see what was next with this version of the Hulk.
True
Just watched Avengers today
Best ever live action Hulk imo.
Jesus I forgot how scary Hulk was in 2008. Definitely my favorite version
He was a bamf
It was my favourite version
My favorite is 2003 eric bana version
It makes me sad what the MCU has done to the hulk. Hulk is such an interesting character, hulk has been relegated to the background compared to the other characters which is a shame. I feel like hulk should have had a trilogy where banner and hulk learn to work together instead of against one another and become the hero we know he can be. Even though I know they couldn't because of the rights with universal thing.
*relegated
@@pr0fess0rbadass thanks, auto correct sucks.
The reason they don’t is because Universal owns The Solo Hulk movie rights, and it’s not like The Incredible Hulk was that big of a success especially compared to The Dark Knight and Iron Man which came out that same year
The thing is they did want that but literally couldn’t because of universal do they tried giving him an arc through others movies
He was my favourite OG member of the Avengers. My sentiments as well 😭
It's recently been pointed out to me how well Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes utilized their Hulk. In that particular show, they really emphasize that Banner and Hulk are 2 halves of the same coin. Banner has come to terms with the fact that he is stuck having to share his life with Hulk; there is no magic button he can push to get rid of him. And on the other hand, Hulk is also cursed with sharing the body with Banner. As such, the two end up bargaining with each other for who gets control at certain times. There's even a great episode where Hulk acknowledges that the problem is intellectual in nature and therefore cannot be solved by Hulk. So, he's stuck giving control to Banner.
Yeah, not gonna lie, I rewatched EMH just because of the vid that you probably watched on him too (the Banner Balance by Pile of Garbage?). Hulk/Banner are great in that. I'm surprised by how much I liked his dynamic with Hawkeye.
Infinitely better than killing Hulk's personality off screen (they said that they were fused, but that's obviously just Banner)
Dumont, maybe not
He seems, harsher
Perhaps 'fusing' meant turning Hulk into repressed memories
He seems to think the powers come with a Co-pilot, he probs don't exactly know what's with daddy
He is, Angry
the show ended too soon
EMH just did so many things right.
The 'live and let live' scene being cut from Infinity War is one of the biggest missed opportunities of the MCU, and I think arguably THE biggest one for the Hulk. It would have been so beneficial because it essentially takes the scraps of character development Hulk got in Age of Ultron, Ragnarok, and Infinity War, and cooks them into a viable recipe. I'm still hoping Bruce is a secondary protagonist in She-Hulk and they flesh out his stuff a bit more, and in a perfect world he would be, but I'm highly skeptical.
apparently bruce is only in 2 episodes of she hulk… marvel has consistently cheaped out on disney plus shows so i would keep expectations low lol
I agree. These marvel shows are no longer the crescendo masterpieces (by comparison) that were pre endgame movies. Granted not all movies were amazing but at least there was a coherent story arc and the directors were trying to convince the average movie goer to watch the movie by making it not childish and dumb
Keep dreaming.. they're going to disrespect him to prop her up
It's why I have hope for the show cause it could redeem him
@@TroySoy
It wont
In the comics hulk always wanted to fight something even if he couldn’t actually win. He always fought out of his league so with thanos I feel like hulk would have wanted to train more and more to get even stronger.
Dude you no nothing about hulk ,Hulk cant get stronger he has limitless strength now ,you are a mcu tool .
Hulk would have fought Thanos until he beat Thanos like in the comics. He would just got anger and anger until Thanos would have lost to the Hulk just like in the comics without the stones
i think it's more accurate to say he always needed a target to vent the anger and trauma he had bottled up. isn't that why the hulk/banner personalities split.
@@silenceassassin5565 hulk has never beat Thanos in the comics wtf are you talking about😭 Thanos one shots Hulk literally every single time they fight
This isn’t really true, one time in the comics The Void beat Hulk so badly that Hulk started shivering and he was absolutely terrified of The Void and didn’t want to see his face ever again. I can link the comic if you want me to
I actually watched Incredible Hulk again today for the first time in years and frankly he used to be much scarier than whatever he is now. At this point the only way we will get a Hulk of that caliber is if we get Thunderbolt Hulk or "Red" Hulk.
they made hulk a joke and annoying.
What if Eric Bana’s Hulk returns due to multiverse?
0
Or the immortal hulk. That will never happen though because it's probably to dark for the mcu as it is now.
Highly doubt there’s ever gonna be a red hulk
The one thing I never enjoyed is how weak the Hulk generally looked. Hulk is supposed to be a force of nature, the jade giant who can stand up to Gods. There are only a few moments that show that "Hulk is strongest". Especially vs Thanos, they really did him dirty there..
Thanos is the better fighter
@@lukegeekwalker2689 doesn't matter. Hulk is beyond Thanos' strength even with a single stone. Or at least in the comic he is.
In the 1990's Thanos Quest 1 he even admits that he'd rather avoid any conflict with the Hulk.
Like I said, they did him dirty in those last Avenger movies
@@arboris lol that old ass comic bo thanso is above hulk in strengh by miles. They fought in 2016 and thanos beat the goofy out of him
@@eem2wavy133 gotta up those troll skills, that was pretty weaksauce
@@arboris it’s no trolling tho. Hulk isn’t nearly as strong as thanos.
If you’ve been reading comics thanos fought the Phoenix force to a standstill while hulk got clapped by it
What really bothers me about Infinity War is Hulk would never get scared from an opponent stronger than him, it would just make him more mad and stronger too 😂 I guess it works to set up Thanos as a big bad but Hulk didn't even get a redemption scene against Thanos in Endgame which would've been satisfying
Only reason I accepted that Hulk got beat was cuz it's never happened like that on screen before, it's shocking and unbelievable, especially coming right off of Thor 3 with how unapologetically monstrous, we needed that comeuppance, how did Thor get one but not Hulk? That's messed up
People who say that Hulk undoing the Snap was his redemption...no. Just no.
It made sense he got beaten by Thanos. Even in the comics Hulk never beat Thanos hand to hand. What I absolutely hated was the fact that he was supposedly "scared" to come out, which was never even confirmed and was just a running theory with MCU stans. What they did to the Hulk is criminal lmao
It would’ve made more sense if hulk didn’t come out due to losing his pride after losing to thanos, instead of being afraid to fight enemies that aren’t even thanos.
It would’ve been good if banner used the iron-hulk to fight, and joking claimed that he didn’t need hulk to fight when he has the mech to do it. In a fit of jealousy and rage, hulk burst out of the suit, destroying it, and then finishing off the thanos minion himself.
@@samuelgiroux6819 In the original concept for Infinity War, Hulk was actually going to burst out of the Hulkbuster suit and beat Cull Obsidian. Thanos still could've won and that would've allowed Bruce and Hulk merging in Endgame make sense as they realise they have to work together instead of being at each other's throats
Something I really appreciate about this video is that you aren't just saying "Hulk isn't the big scary punch monster anymore" like most of the internet. You actually talk about how they threw away any semblance of a character arc for him and stripped him of what makes him interesting
Here’s one interesting idea they could’ve used in endgame. Using the stones to snap was said to mostly give of gamma radiation correct? Hence why hulk could resist it.
Why not have hulk absorb so much gamma rays that he reverts back to a savage hulk. Jumping out of the avengers complex right before thanos attacks, and only coming back during the big fight later.
Add flashbacks of Betty, Nat, and his abusive Dad, that all would have set it off!
Ur idea is cool,but it would be even more cooler if he dont show up in the fight at all,and later on hes insane from so much gama power he destroys and levels cities,becoming a menace and thus the illuminati sending him to outer space where he aint a threat (jumpstarting Planet Hulk and WBH storylines) not before a hard fight against to subdue him
@@casualcookin3893 True. The Hulk would work as an amazing villain for a story, and the gamma radiation expulsion explains why he would be such a huge threat (as the Hulkbuster wrongly knocked him out in AOU).
However, the only thing that concerns me is the age of Mark Rufallo. I mean, the guy is in his mid-fifties and nearing the time where RDJ left his role as Iron Man. I mean, he can't run around and be agile for years and years to come- I know that this is why they have done She Hulk (to pass the role forwards), however, the traditional storyline of Hulk could have been handled WAY better, and maybe a smaller scale version of that idea could work well
@@ollygator7785 I dont like Rufallo as Hulk anyways,i hope they dont fck up She Hulk,as i loved the character as a kid,hope the show doesent suck or be mediocre as the last few marvel shows
@@casualcookin3893 I think that he's an okay Hulk, though I love the character in the comics, so I'm probably feeling some mild bias for him.
Though, I get what you're saying with the marvel shows: Wandavision was interesting but feel flat at the end, Falcon and the Winter Solider was cool at times but a little boring, Loki was a mess (tho kinda loved it), Hawkeye was fun at best, Moonkight started great but devolved soon after, Ms. Marvel is pretty alright I guess, and I am Groot looks cute but I doubt that I'll ever watch it tbh.
So yeah, She Hulk doesn't have the highest bar to top, but if it does justice to Hulk AND she Hulk, then I'll be happy
I'm actually gonna support Banner in Age of Ultron (for the most part). "I can choke the life out of you without changing a shade", he still felt like a full character with issues and not a punchline in that one, I think Banner was pretty well written. The romance subplot I'll agree isn't inherently bad but wasn't executed as well as it could've been. And I'll also agree, further down the line in the MCU Hulk's character was.. idk just not as fully realized as he was in Avengers (2012)
@Survivors stop bitching and take your L The relationship deserved better. Stop being a crybaby and get over Betty. She’s old news.
@Survivors stop bitching and take your L they apparently went their seperate ways bc he’s the hulk directly after the Incredible Hulk movie.
@I-need-2-winBruce knows General Ross will never allow him near his daughter. Even though she is an adult, he will use his authority and influence to stop him.
He cannot stop the Hulk, but Banner will never get a look in
@I-need-2-win No. The hate the romance gets from crybabies like you is stupid and unnecessary. And it wasn't forced. I saw it coming.
Hulk went from being the strongest one there is, to being a big idiot in Ragnarok, to then being a pathetic mashup of him and Bruce Banner. Only except we don’t get the actual, insanely strong and intense gamma powered hero, that just so happens to have the great mind of Banner. No we just get a green Mark Ruffalo walking around, being all goofy and cannot be taken seriously anymore.
@Class A Content being a good character doesn’t mean being serious all the time. you can still sometimes use hulk for comic relief while actually making him consistent and well-characterized.
@Class A Content Hulk was fighting entirely different power level threats in Ragnarok though
@Class A Content a perfect example of this would be knuckles. In the newest sonic film he was serious but also was able to make jokes because he didn’t know certain things. They could’ve done the same with the hulk but instead of that he’s your typical “big dumb brute” to literally shrek
@Class A Content so I don’t understand the big idiot thing
@Class A Content true but now he’s pretty much a joke himself
The incredible Hulk is exactly how he should have been all throughout the MCU...
the incredible hulk was awesome and a big part of me will always wish norton kept the role
@@B31NGhe wanted to, I guess he was fighting the direction MCU hulk was going. I can't remember if he walked away or if he was forced out and/or fired
I didn’t mind Hulk losing to Thanos but no rematch is where I feel betrayed
It is the way he lost. A chop to the neck! Not waking up in a rage!
Tbh I don’t think a rematch would be that interesting because Thanos would just win again lmao
I see this comment on every single Hulk video and I agree
@@eliminator1472considering the only deciding factor being who the writers decide to win, that's really not an excuse, lol.
"Soooo universal wont give up the rights?? Okay guys time to nerf hulk" - feige
Imagine if Thor, after he arrived in Wakanda and kicked all sorts of ass, had had a moment with Bruce and been able to reach the Hulk. Thor could’ve been like their mediator, helping Bruce convince Hulk to come out just this once and starting them on the path to a more balanced relationship.
The transformation scene in Avengers is still one of my all time favorites. The sheer rage is frightening to behold, especially from fragile black widow's perspective. Like holy shit that scene still terrifies me. And it's a blast to see him go punch for punch with Thor which of course ends in a stalemate.
He remains THE Hulk for the rest of that movie but from there on out...what should be the most powerful being around continuously gets beat down from movie to movie. First by hulk Buster, then Thor, then Thanos and then he's gone forever. Quite unceremonious if you ask me.
Thats why the the hulk is hard to work with, his origin story and general tone is essentially a horror movie. Arguably one of the hardest genres to write for, and I think at some level these modern hacks know they can't pull it off. A good original hulk movie would have to go full chernobyl with a touch of lovecraft.
The ease with which Banner & Hulk's relationship was resolved bugged me a lot in Endgame. The Russos mention in the commentary track for Endgame that they originally wanted to show the two personalities coming to terms with each other but it would have taken up too much screen time. But if that was the cases then they shouldn't have made such a big issue of the problem during IW. I also think that by having "Professor Hulk" it slightly devalues She-Hulk. It takes away a little bit of her uniqueness (a hulk who retains intelligence) and makes her simply a female counterpart of "smart hulk".
exactly, I would've been more excited for she hulk if they didn't already tread that water with hulk. hulk and she hulk are both just big green comedians and it would've been better if one (preferably bruce) stayed that monster.
@@amekgomo5250 or if they wanna be funny go full into grey hulk
Yes. This precisely is the issues. Also, another way they've devalued She-Hulk before the character can even get off the ground is by turning the entire MCU so joke-heavy. If the comedy was dished out sparsely across the films/shows then her comedic flare that she's most known for in the comics would actually stand out like it should. Instead, she's just like everyone else.
Nah, having professor hulk there to teach her doesn't devalue she hulk. It devalues banner and the hulk because they've written her as a Betty Sue that emasculates him both metaphorically and literally by being better than him at everything. They devalued she hulk by writing her as a petty, misandrist ego maniac, who repeatedly tears down established MCU characters for no reason other than to pander to feminists that hate men. Then they tried to delegitimize genuine criticism about the terrible way the character was being handled by smearing detractors of the show as petty misogynists. Disney needs to jump off the band wagon.
@@WhelmedButReady That’s a good point. That first episode had the 2 cousins exchanging joking quips back and forth, and it would’ve been better to have Bruce be more dour and serious to contrast the 2 different personalities and approaches.
One of the issues I have among other things mentioned in the video is that they've basically made Hulk into what made She-Hulk so special. He's not like Professor Hulk in the comics (which is still Hulk but intelligent) and instead just Bruce who's is just big and green now. That should've been Jennifer thing, to be able to be in her Hulk form but still remain Jen more or less because of how she views herself and her Hulk form
That show sucks in so many ways!!!!!!!
I always interpreted Black Widow’s arc in Age of Ultron as her feeling like a monster because she allowed herself to be turned into a weapon by the Red Room. Her inability to have children is just a part of, if not a symbol of that. I don’t know how Whedon intended it because, as we all know, he is a monster but I choose to interpret it that way.
I get where you're coming from but she didn't ALLOW herself to be turned into a weapon, she was forced to. I think even with this more generous interpretation in mind and regardless of Whedon's intent the exact meaning of her words don't really matter, it still sucks ass and shouldn't have been in the movie.
that's how I've always looked at. She's making the classic and very relatable mistake of assuming what other people have always told you about yourselves (especially for those in the position of radically changing you) is the pure truth, is what you indeed are. She's been conditioned to (unfairly) regard herself as a monster because she was created to be the ultimate weapon by monsters, including the gross detail of forced sterilization. And even though of course it wasn't at all her fault, she's a victim of trauma and many people find a way to still blame themselves.
@@infinityentity h btw ix. Gh
Whedon is a turd for sure, but "monster" is pushing it. There a fair number of iconic and presently working directors who are just as bad if not worse than Whedon. Stanley Kubrick's treatment of Shelley Duvall on the set of The Shining was well-documented to be insanely abusive and is speculated to have contributed to her mental issues. David O'Russell is well-known clashing with his actors Amy Adams confirmed that he made her cry on set of American Hustle. I'm not defending Whedon, but I'm not fond of the bandwagon effect exaggerating how bad he actually is.
@@kevinw712 Yes. Agree completely. But the scene was written kind of oddly, kind of burying this subtler aspect and lending itself instead very easily to misinterpretation.
Honestly, if they had kept that scene of Bruce and Hulk talking inside the Hulkbuster, his arc would've worked a lot better. We were missing that moment in which the two finally become in sync.
My feelings about MCU hulk are so paradoxical.
When they reintroduced him in the first Avengers movie, he had elements of both the Ultimates Hulk, and the old TV show - he strangely felt more like the Bill Bixby Banner. I wanted to see this explored: the loneliness and exile of the TV banner, combined with the self awareness and even strange glee the Hulk has in just being the Hulk. This kernel could have followed these aspects over a number of movies, slowly integrating into a single personality that has elements of both: someone who's simultaneously intelligent, kind, and empathetic, but still cranky and hairtrigger (and just a little too fond of a good fight). This Hulk could be a genuinely good person that you still feel a little uncomfortable around because he's got enough of a temper to put a toaster into orbit because it burned his waffles - someone who doesn't feel like he's in exile but instead feels like a travelling adventurer looking for people who need help and anyone who has a problem with him can get smashed.
On the other hand , I actually kinda love Professor Hulk - having watched the TV show growing up and having followed his adventures since the late seventies, there is a side of me that feels like the lonely man wandering from place to place always under pursuit DESERVES that kind of end: to be a Hulk that everyone actually likes and could probably sit and read stupid articles written by the journalist that used to chase him just or the LOL's while kicking back in a nice little cabin in Jamaica. Smiling Hulk delivering Taco's is just someone I'd love to hang out with. The problem is, this evolution isn't earned - it's just feels like film-makers trying to throw something unexpected at the audience without actually thinking it through. It's enough of a shift I'm not even sure I'd buy a single Hulk movie explaining the shift from Infinity War to Endgame.
There is, however, a way to move this version character forward - I think we can all agree that this Hulk is ultimately TOO chill - he uses his strength half-heartedly - as if he barely takes that aspect of himself seriously. If I were Marvel, I'd do an arc showing that the Hulk is far weaker without his rage, and that in "fixing" himself, Banner has lost something crucial. If he has to face something like, say, the Maestro - where he really would have to be able to tap into both his full level of intelligence AND his full savage strength to even have a chance against them, he'd have to make a pretty fundamental change. I think one of the more obvious tacks is to consider what isolation might have done to both personalities - leaving earth in Ragnarock, losing contact with either Betty or Black Widow, Hulk kinda decided he didn't need anyone. Anger management is much easier when you've given up on caring - this current version may be more a surrender than actual integration. Have him build a happy life for himself that is destroyed, and then have to deal with the fact that that rage might give him the strength to defeat the Maestro, but it is also what puts him at risk of becoming him. Then have him find out it wasn't the Maestro that wrecked his life, it was the Illuminati because they NEEDED a raging hulk in order to win. Boom, World War Hulk....
All of this, yes. I also still wanna see a storyline where Banner and Hulk separate into two different entities. Perhaps in that same Maestro movie.
Maestro gloats over a fully human Banner, broken and bloody. He's been losing power since Infinity War era, and now, Meastro gloats, he can't even transform to save his life.
"I can't transform...." Banner croaks, "But I can distract you."
And Maestro is sent flying.
Cut to Hulk, holding a tank like a baseball bat.
EDIT: And at some point in that battle, Banners gonna break out an anti-hulk weapon. Which would fit perfectly into the story where Banner and Hulk split, and they get hit by a gamma bomb, disintegrating Banner.
Over time, Hulk begins to lose time, realizing he's turning into Banner as he sleeps. And Banner is seemingly creating a weapon, and using Hulk to do it.
That storyline ends with Banner proving that he could kill Hulk if he wanted. But has decided not to, in favor of working together. Which leads to Hulk and Banner hot-swapping their control, and even a little Professor Hulk, too!!
Banner even solos a few enemies, with his superior weaponry (that he designed, himself). Great storyline.
Bravo sir! sadly this won't fit "the message" disney is now pushing but i would love to see your version
@@kurtisdeakin yeah, dudes can't have W's anymore :') don't wanna undermine the single green wahmen lawyer character they just introduced.
Interesting
One of the biggest missed opportunities and what makes the Hulk character so frightening is his transformation....whedon did it perfectly in Avengers and then its never been seen again. The uncontrollable rage of him not wanting to change but the Hilk just taking over and asserting dominance, and the resulting reaction of whoever is present at the time.
His heroism was taken away. The dramatics of him changing to save or protect.
bruce’s first scene with black widow is one of my favourite scenes in the whole series, it’s a shame they couldn’t keep that characterisation
You are absolutely correct about "Professor hulk" just being a super powered Banner. In that movie there is nothing left of hulk except the body.
Seeing Joe Fixit in the MCU would be quite the sight to see! I honestly want them to delve into Bruce's past, show his father, confirm to the comic fans that the MCU's Savage Hulk is still just an angry kid and they'll explore Bruce's D.I.D. Similar to what they did in Moon Knight, but make it more mature and closer to the Immortal Hulk comics.
Yeah, you know damn well they ain't touching Immortal Hulk with a ten-foot pole...
@@wayfaringstranger8430 true, but it's a neat concept to think about. An Immortal Hulk storyline in the MCU would be so interesting, even with different characters.
Immortal Hulk is so godamn good and it’s a shame that we won’t ever get anything close to that in the MCU.
Now that would be great.
@@scarigamez I've been wanting joe fixit since forever. He's an important part in banner becoming professor hulk too
Hulk in the MCU so far has had one of the most anticlimactic endings to a character arc in all of fiction.
His character arc hasn’t ended tho
@@AndrewDukes It pretty much has. I mean everyone said yrs ago, don't worry, he'll be in She Hulk, and we'll get better Hulk moments. Well She Hulk came and went and what did we get from him? Just more silly Endgame Hulk who doesn't do very much. Ruffalo's Hulk has run his course, and they are never going to utilize him properly. The Hulk needs a reboot at this point.
@@henryoil he was barely in the show, and we actually learned more about Bruce banner in she-Hulk than we have in any other movie.. even the Hulk movie itself. He’s isolated himself from his family and friends due to his trauma.. they even acknowledge this in the show and Jen calls him out on it. And in the finale they very clearly set up world war Hulk, so if you truly believe he’s done then you’re objectively wrong because they’re very clearly setting up another storyline with him
@@AndrewDukes Dude there is no way we are getting WWH. The current MCU Hulk doesn't even have the right tone for it. If this was Ruffalo's Hulk straight out of 2012's Avengers, that would be different, but the damage is done now, Ruffalo's Hulk is just way too light, he lacks the gravitas for such a movie. Any attempt by the current MCU to use Ruffalo's Hulk in a WWH movie would be a disaster. Its best they don't even bother.
@@henryoil “way too light” bruh we haven’t gotten a solo Hulk story since 2008. She-Hulk gave us the most back story for Bruce than any other MCU film and he was barely in the show. Not only that but don’t act like Hulk has never had never had any light hearted stories in the comics. Once Nick Fury wanted to calm the Hulk down so he surrounded him in tiny puppies and Hulk thought they were so cute he reverted back to Banner. Nobody ever complains about that. But let that happen in the MCU and y’all would be whining about it smh 🤦🏻♂️
13:22 I've long wondered if Bruce telling Tony in Infinity War when the Black Order shows up "yeah but since when do I get what I want" was a fully known callback to this moment
Oh it 100% is
I feel like the “balance” of Hulk and Banner was out of place and way too soon. For almost all movies before hand we grow to love both personalities within this character and see the conflict with themselves but after Infinity War it feels like they just rushed their conclusion. Hulk lost to Thanos and refused to come out and banner having to learn to get by with only his own humanity and what happens next? Hulks personality gets killed off screen and all that’s left is husk of what he used to be with Banner just being comic relief.
Much of this is the fault of the Russo Brothers. Their heart was just not in Hulk's story at all and sadly it showed. They were just not the right team for the Hulk character, that is one character they failed with miserably.
Hulk vs Abom is to this day, one of the few movie fights that gets my blood pumping. Visceral is the best word to describe it.
I thought it was such a weird talking point when Moon Knight came out that 'here's an MCU character with DID' because we've had Hulk for years. But it's not so weird really when you consider that if you're not a comic book fan you don't really understand that Bruce HAS DID. The lack of development and build up that these are distinct personalities, as opposed to Hulk just being a 'monster' and heightened rage, that Bruce had a traumatic and abusive childhood and even repressed memories, or that Bruce has many other personalities inside him (that can also access the gamma radiation) all lead to MCU Bruce/Hulk having none of the driving elements that make me adore solo Hulk comics. I did hope that Sakaar would lead to a Caiera Oldstrong and Skaar storyline (and maybe it will in the future, Marvel seems intent on 'Next Gen' characters like Wanda's kids Billy and Tommy, and Cassie Lang, etc) but we haven't gotten anything like that. Having Bruce have to confront his inner demons about his past, and his dad, as well as years spent as Hulk without control, all in order to be a dad to a kid who also has trauma and DID would be such an interesting way to move him forward. Especially if the project was 'focused' on Skaar to get around Universal's problem, but still had to thoroughly build up Bruce's character to drive the story. Instead we got... Infinity War, Endgame and now She-Hulk. Living the dream out here.
agreed they could have explored so much of bruce's psyche before MK
2008's The Incredible Hulk is absolutely the underappreciated gem of the MCU. I love it, and it has my prefered look for Hulk, too. I do like what I refer to as the Gorilla style Hulk from Avengers onward, his arms are a bit longer or at least feel longer with how he's more hunched, but the design in 2008, sure, it's a bit cartoony, but man, I love the giant hands and feet and wider profile, it really works for me and I miss it so much. Also, when are we gonna get The Leader since he was set up? Get your head out of your ass Universal and push your weight around like Sony did with Spider-Man, set out to make a Hulk movie and make Marvel Studios play ball.
As for Hulk in Infinity War, according to the audio commentary, Hulk isn't scared, he's tired of being forced to play the hero, which I say is absolutely not what is implied with him being trounced by Thanos. Hulk doesn't want to come out and fight because he feels like he's being objectified, like he's just another tool in the belt of the Avengers? That's actually not a bad idea for a story, but in Infinity War of all things? Makes much more sense that he's scared because Thanos took him down with skilled fighting prowess in a matter of seconds. And yeah Endgame, man, I mean, I like that Bruce and Hulk found a way to coexist, but we didn't really get any of the journey of that, and I love your martial arts ideas. Everything with Captain Marvel in Endgame is pretty underwhelming because she is so overpowered and underdeveloped for this massive journey we have been on because she was only introduced a few months earlier and was absent the whole movie, never even went on the Time Heist. All the guns turn on just her? She couldn't have even come flying in with a bunch of Nova Corps ships flanking her? Would've made more sense even if she could still blow up Thanos' ship all by herself. I do like the little exchange where Thanos headbutts her and resorts to the Power Stone to get her away from him, but yeah, I'd have liked to see the Hulk keep him distracted and maybe even nearly break Thanos' wrist to keep him from snapping his fingers.
Hulk deserved better. There's great moments sprinkled throughout the MCU, but more could have been done. A lot of it probably comes down to cost and time management, but they also just shot themselves in the foot making him Professor Hulk where he has to be a big CGI man all the time now.
08 hulk is a great superhero movie. It's far better then the crap they have released lately
@@dani4157 I've heard the reasoning why they removed him was because Edward Norton is notorious in meddling with scripts, and that just wasn't going to fly with Avengers and kind of the general plan going forward with the MCU until it was a more surefire thing. He is really great though, and undoubtedly, The Incredible Hulk is better for him and his presence. I also really like the smaller and leaner frame he has becoming this giant roided out guy, it really sells better than Mark Ruffalo's body. Perhaps had he been able to retain the role, he would have pushed harder for more solo Hulk movies. Oh well, I guess that's just another cracked-mirror universe we don't get to visit.
@@randybobandy9828 I’ll go back to even Eric bana’s hulk as very underrated I wish they could have expanded more on his version more
"thanos won against the Hulk through skill"
also because apparently injuries are not thing in the MCU. Takes a lot to make Thanos bleed but he still can, but blunt force trauma doesn't seem exist considering Hulk was almost exclusively trying to cave in Thanos's skull
If there's anything we needed a Disney + show for, it was what happened to Bruce and Hulk between Infinity War and Endgame
I really loved the chemistry between Banner ,and Romanov. I'm not sure why it didn't work for you. I thought it was great. When professor hulk said he tried to bring Nat
Back I felt for the green guy.
The dichotomy of meek man and big green monster was what made him interesting to me. Making him a meek green man as he is now...just isn't as interesting to watch. It just stops the hulk character from developing past Thor Ragnorak, leaving us only with green Bruce
Hulk used to be my absolute favourite marvel character period - what the MCU has done to him is just...so disappointing
Yeah :(
You know I recently read the entire Immortal Hulk comic run recently and I was reminded why I love this character, he’s a horror story. A fear of the atomic age and the destructive power and hubris of man. A Jekyll and Hyde for the modern age. With how they’ve built the Hulk within the confines of only being a cameo character I don’t think we’ll ever truly see the horror of the Hulk. End-Game was the point of no return, he has to be a sanitized joke guy now who’s being phased out in favor of She-Hulk, which while I am also a big fan of She-Hulk I really wish we got something more out of the og before phasing him out.
Thank you I’ve been saying they could make the hulk movies fresh by making it a Psycho Horror thriller…. Banner struggling to keep the Beast in.. the look of fear trembling and terror on the soldiers faces before getting crushed. A MIGHTY but disgusting and grotesque monster at the end for the hulk to fight. The feeling of banner being cursed, from a normal scientist to being a MAD SCIENTIST after the hulk is introduced a supremely strong heartless beast. next film hulk gets fleshed, and hulk has a range of emotions fear, sorrow and he too feels cursed and ultimately it’s revealed the weapon of destruction just wants peace. Leads up to the combination and reconciliation PROFESSOR HULK actually making him…Badass huge lazer guns outwitting his opponent smart and strong and kinda funny. Proving himself a true hero
Marvel...offer this man a multi year contract to write the next phases of the MCU!
I'd personally love to see Mark Ruffallo lend his voice to an animated continuation of the 1970s Hulk TV show. He at least is capable of conveying the vulnerability of Bruce (or in the show: David) Banner
My favorite Hulk moment is when he takes Loki and shakes him like a rag doll.🤣🤣🤣🤣
My son is autistic and struggles with balancing emotional extremes. Hulk is by far his favorite and I asked him why. He said that he understands the explosive anger Bruce has and relates to the challenge of drives to just explode with rage. I love the idea of the juxtaposition of intense emotional expression and integrating constructive soothing techniques/various martial arts for more focused fighting and (let's face it) total domination!! Big emotions are ok but I too would have preferred a laser focused badass over an overpowered geek. Anyway, thanks as always!! We both love your content.
Wow....l'm autistic too and l agreed with you 💙w💙👍🏻
He isnt an overpowered Geek. He's the best of both worlds and anyone else can get over it.
@@watcher805Literally no
@@eliminator1472 go look up literality man and then go back to suckin off your ma's weenie
Man I wish Hulk came out in Infinity war and stayed
Y'know, I know this is a Hulk video, but I just wanna clarify that Black Widow thing because a lot of critics say the same thing that was brought up in this. They started talking about her being unable to have kids, yes, and then she says this: “One less thing to worry about, the one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier, even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?” See the flow of thought? It's not being unable to have kids that makes her a monster; it's that, more than any other person on the team (except probably Hulk), she finds killing easy. That's why she relates to Bruce. When she's on a mission, it's akin to Bruce being Hulked out---nothing will get in her way. Not Steve being concerned that she didn't tell him about her separate instructions from Fury (Winter Soldier), and not even Hawkeye trying to save her own life (Endgame). The Black Widow will see her goals done through to the end.
I honestly don't know why so many people think it's that she's a monster because she can't reproduce. Clearly she's a monster because she's been trained and borderline brainwashed into being an efficient killing machine. She's had her humanity taken away
Smart Hulk is the worst thing the MCU has done to one of their main heroes. What makes the Hulk interesting is the conflict between him and Bruce Banner, and this not only gets rid of that conflict, but they did it off-screen.
When I see the is it makes me realize, they did kinda muddle the hulk, and he’s one of my actual favorites in the comics, and now am sad 😔
The better thing to do with Banner in Avengers 3 would be keeping him with the WAKANDA science lady helping destroy the stone. Just imo
Fun Fact: Universal owns The Incredible Hulk which is why he may or may not show up in Multiversus. It's almost the same as the Sony Spider-Man situation. Disney is not allowed to make solo Hulk films without Universal. It's all a big mess.
Better for us though, Hulk isn't a standalone character tbph. He's there for smashes and he's there for the big brain meetings, that's his entire character, Bruce and Hulk.
@@GothAtheist Not entirely. There have been stories that delve into Banner's psyche and how having to share a body with other personalities has left him unstable.
@@GothAtheist That’s a lie. Hulk works having solo stories. You can do a deep, psychological story about Bruce finding ways on how to be rid of the green monster inside him. Trying to find a cure. Only to realize that ultimately, this monster is the key to keeping himself, and others safe. And plus, Hulk has a decent amount of villains to pull. One of them is The Leader. A villain all about brains and intelligence instead of pure strength. Which makes him a perfect foil for both Bruce and his Hulk persona.
@@parkerboy795 Y'all didn't have to go so hard, this is clearly a kid who's never picked up a comic 🤣
Pretty sure Universal don’t own the full film rights they just own distribution rights, so they get first say when it comes to making hulk movies
The Russo brothers man.....They really did my boi Hulk dirty.
I'm not even halfway through the video yet so I don't know if you mention this but Bruce Banner gives me different vibes in Avengers 2012 that I don't see again really. In Avengers he carries a much heavier presence that seems to match his character. A genius man with the burden of having the most dangerous thing on earth dwell within him. I haven't seen Ultron too many times so he might still have the vibe in there but after that he turns into a joke. He becomes a clueless nerd caught in a violent conflict. It feels like he doesn't even have the Hulk in him anymore. They feel much more separate. Which makes him turning into Professor Hulk feel a lot more out of place. Not only did we skip over the arc he goes through to become that, but it feels like we degressed in the arc since 2012.
If I am wrong about anything please fill me in.
Well... what happened was the AVENGERIZATION of Hulk. Jokes here, jokes there... So forth. An, as usual, unnecessary and misplaced ones.
They rushed his professor hulk arc way too fast imo.. it looks jarring like you said, there was still more hulk to explore imo
Also how jokey he was in infinity war was so out of place.. if Bruce can't turn in to the hulk, surely he'd use his smarts instead??
I haven’t seen Age of Ultron in, well, ages, but one scene I remember is Banner hiding outside of the quinjet before Wanda witches him. And in that scene, if I remember correctly, he carries the kind of nervous, anxious weight of “Can I come out now? Is it safe for me not to be a danger anymore?” that shows that he is still really messed up inside. And even in the party scene, he makes a “turning into Hulk” joke that seems really ill-received and kinda shows how he is trying (but still failing) to accept Hulk as a regular, intentional part of his life
I agree with you about the different vibes Banner gives off though. Isn’t he always angry? Isn’t his ridiculously suppressed and absurdly intense rage the reason he can turn into Hulk in the first place? Avengers 2012 Banner felt like he was always trying not to snap, and that left after AOU
Avengers Hulk walking around the helicarrier super carefully like if he bumps into something he might explode is a great little detail. Not because hes afraid of getting hurt, but because he doesnt want to be responsible for hurting *everyone else*.
We wanted World Breaker Hulk and got Yoga Hulk 😩😭
The "I LOVE YOU!" from Banner talking to Hulk...that scene should've been left in. Marvel now knows that people will watch 3+ hour movies if they're good, but they have to be GOOD. So they should keep as much of the original script in the movies as possible.
"Why big green man no smash no more?"
The hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets right? So.. with that lore already in check, a hulk who is at peace with himself is going to be a lot weaker and it makes sense cannonically.
Imagine if Bruce Banner being in the Shang chi post credit scene is never addressed and he’s just professor hulk from now on. Part of me wouldn’t be surprised
In one of the newer She-Hulk trailers, the one with the car crash, Bruce is in his normal body so I assume it will be addressed.
I feel somehow Joss Weedon delivered the most badass Hulk and banner of all the directors
17:10 I’ve always found this take incredibly, ludicrously reductive, and I think you have to actively not be paying attention to what Age of Ultron is actually saying to co-sign it.
No, Nat is NOT calling herself a monster because she “can’t have kids”. She’s calling herself a monster because part of her bodily autonomy was taken away so she could be *better at murdering people.* Really peeves me that “no babies = monster” is still all some people take away from that arc after 7 years.
100%.
The incredibly ludicrously reductive Hulk
Yeah, I suppose I tee’d that one up.
I agree completely. Although it could still be seen as undermining to what the hulk has had to go through with Nat saying she shares the same burden, but even then it doesn't necessarily come across that way in the movie. I actually thought it was an interesting direction for Black Widow's character.
I'm still not sure what that has to do with her killing? It's better to say she's efficient at killing anyone INCLUDING children, and THAT'S what makes her a monster
Whatever that dialogue was in the movie, it wasn't good enough
"They kinda messed him up a little bit"
They BUTCHERED HULK.
Hulk has always been my favourite marvel character since I was little and I completely agree with you it’s so depressing the one character I love the most can’t have a proper solo film until universal give the rights back but shouldn’t they’ve expired by now like sony etc had to keep making films to keep the rights
I can only imagine how deadly hulk could be if he was as smart as Banner. Merging the two, you would get an angry, possessive, remorseless character who can easily make biological and artificial weapons to enhance his strengths. No one would ever cross him, and he would have full awareness of this. I picture that he would be very possessive of his lab and work -- "Tony, if you touch that wire, I will tear you limb from limb. Stay out." He would have been so, so badass and interesting.
Nah, with consciousness of Banner, he loses the rage that is limitless to increase his strength!
That’s basically Maestro who is a complete menace
You actually kind of changed my mind about the Hulk with this video. Before, I just didn't really like the Hulk at all, but now I'm... kinda sad about the fact that he was just completely sidelined.
The Hulk used to be one of my favorite character and this video remidned me on why. I really wish they would have waited to bring in Professor Hulk until later, because seeing him make that transformation off screen was flabbergasting. I do wish they would have leaned more into the dynamic of Bruce balancing his life with Hulk & their relationship with Natasha; the stuff that was there about these relationships was good, there just wasn't enough. Also, a good way to bring professor Hulk in could have been during the second snap because of the comprimise that would happen between the 2 + the infinity stone magic. But yeah, Marvel kinda did this great character dirty. (Although I really do like Mark Ruffalo in that role)
I always thought being around the other avengers and forging those bonds made him more accepting of his situation and pulled him out of the dark place he was in. I'm fine with funny hulk, but the one from the first avengers movie was definitely more interesting
Natasha isn't a monster because she can't have kids. She's a monster because the thing that anchors her in community and as a woman is something she gave up for the sake of killing. Rather than being one who nurtures and protects life, she is one who has nothing but red in her ledger.
She gets her redemption arc in Endgame - she sends Clint home to his family, she does what she should've been able to do for a long time, to give hope, and sacrifices herself for that cause.
This is a similar core character issue as Bethany in Kevin Smith's Dogma. As Alan Rickman's Metatron says: "You're being given the chance to play mother to the whole world, by protecting it."
The fact that people reduce the hysterectomy to purely about "having kids" rather than having kids itself be a full realization of Natasha's desire to be more than Black Widow, more than the killer, but to protect, raise, and restore all the red on her ledger - to form family bonds and be anchored in community - is an absolutely baffling misread of the scene and of her character.
Hulk is my favourite superhero, and to see the way he's been mishandled and thrown to the wayside slightly is extremely disheartening. It feels like a pipedream that Hulk quite literally used to be Marvel's second most popular character after Spiderman, but that was genuinely how it was pre-mcu.
The fact they have not explored the relationship between Hulk and banner nearly enough, not delved into an extremely rich and harrowing backstory, made the character a bit of a joke for laughs is just a little depressing. Especially as someone who grew up reading the planet Hulk comic.
About that Age of Ultron scene with Black Widow, people MASSIVELY misinterpret what she's saying there. She isn't saying, "I can't have kids; you think you're the only monster here?". She's saying, "I **gave up** my ability to have kids - to create and new life and bring into the world, to make myself more effective at ending life; you think you're the only monster here?"
Those are 2 vastly different statements and ideas. She isn't a monster because she's sterile; she's a monster because she willing became sterile purely to become a more efficient killing machine
There is so much left that is interesting to explore with the Hulk. Grey Hulk, Doc Sampson, Rick Jones, The Maestro, The Pantheon. They just have other things they want to do more.
I thought, with him being an actor and all, Mark Ruffalo had to try to transform himself into the Hulk as a character. I wasn’t aware you could just reverse it and make the Hulk transform into Mark Ruffalo.
Totally agree with what you said about The Incredible Hulk, especially the last fight. Its a good movie with great action and I really don’t understand a lot of the criticism it gets given that the MCU has done worse with the likes of Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Ant Man 2, and almost all of the D+ shows.
Idk I didn't find any of the action that great, it was just super boring, but that is my opinion. Also the cgi on the Hulk kind of makes it hard to watch too for me
It's cause a lot of criticts expect a great story out of what is essentially a movie about two monsters fighting themselves. Kinda like with King Kong VS Godzilla. Low ratings cause of the story when you just wanna see them fight.
@@Rebelrose thor ragnarok, ant man, ant man and the wasp, captain marvel all didn't have good stories. why did they get less hate than this movie, I don't get it fr
just because there may be worse movies doesn't preclude The Incredible Hulk from criticism
@@amekgomo5250 I personally think all of those are good movies, and better than Incredible Hulk
Honestly based off this video, all it seems Hulk needed was the cut Infinity War scene, maybe a tweak to show Hulk is still there, but Banner gets to be in charge now. Then in Endgame, a few conversations between Banner/Hulk to show they're working together instead of Banner fully in charge, a foreshadowy "I got this one big guy" when Banner does the Snap, then the payoff "This one mine Puny Banner" as Hulk lets out his new fighting style, informed by Banner's brains, for the big 4v1 Thanos fight
I completely agree, and think that the Hulk was catastrophically wasted, especially in Endgame, as the Hulk personality is basically neutered. I would do something slightly different for him in Endgame.
When he's holding up the compound, the rage at losing Natasha along with the burst of gamma causes the reawakening of the Hulk personality. After lifting the compound off his friends, he roars at Thanos and attacks him. Using Bruce's intelligence and Jujitsu techniques in tandem with his raw power and gladiator training, he pummels Thanos. As his eyes glow green, he yells "Hulk Smash!" and cracks Thanos' armour. Then he thunderclaps Thanos, knocking him off his feet and through a small hill of debris and continues on a rampage against his forces, perhaps to save someone else.
Imagine a world where Bruce comes to terms with the Hulk like in the deleted scene in endgame, and just as they finally work things out, Thanos does his snap, and suddenly the Hulk turns to dust, and banner is left standing.
Gives a brilliant opening for banner to have a reason to be happy in a post snap world, gives him conflict on unsnapping all the victims, and even lets them move forward onto professor Hulk as the snap has "unforeseen circumstances" then we get professor Hulk as he is now.
Fast forward to now, a new Hulk film, or show, something along those lines, and you could have professor Hulk start having nightmares and hallucinations of the Hulk accusing banner of locking him up, wasting his potential. "All that talk of love, just to put me back in the cage"
There was a line Hulk could have gone on, and little would've changed, and been all the more nuanced a character for it
I think actually seeing Banner and Hulk merge into Professor Hulk would have done so much for his arc. Don't understand why they didn't do that
18:58 Thanos shouldn't have been able to overpower him THAT easily, until he had more stones. They should have had a pretty epic fight and Thanos just clearly edge him
One of the problems with Thanos being the ultimate antagonist that he was is that not everyone could have their satisfying moment against him or their rematch or a cathartic end to their relationship. Drax for example, Nebula for another, Thor got his “I went for the head moment” but ultimately it of course came down to Stark, now I love that it did but the very nature of it is that not everyone could have their moment. I actually really like that Banner/Hulk didn’t feel the need for a round 2, he went down a different path and for me it was the smart choice otherwise Endgame would need to be another half hour to give everyone their moment against Thanos, not that I or I imagine anyone would complain at that.
Do I think they’ve maybe gone for the smart Hulk angle too soon, yeah probably, but who’s to say we won’t get a Worldbreaker Hulk in the future, imagine if he was the threat the Thunderbolts have to go up against for example? That makes sense to me. As to why he goes down that path I can’t say, maybe he just loses it if Clint dies and he is the only original Avenger left? Shame they already used Planet Hulk so that can’t be the resolution to a worldbreaker storyline but maybe Scarlet Witch or Strange or someone else can bring him back
Im reslly not a fan of the alternate route they went down seeing as it contradicted its own storytelling, they shoukdve just broughr back rage hulk
I'm sorry but now that you mentioned Drax I think he deserved a scene with Thanos way more than Iron Man. I know Statk began the MCU and all of that but he really has little personal grievances with Thanos outside being waht he sees as his greatest failure; but I guess that is the point, maybe his arc could end with him not needing to be centerstage, not needing the glory or the fame, not necessarily an actual death but an ego one; I reckon that would've been very cathartic.
Kinda off topic, but I still can’t believe that thanos was almost defeated in infinity war, but star lord couldn’t keep his cool and f’d it all up. I didn’t think much of that scene when first watching the movie, but now that I’ve remembered it, seems like a really cheap way to almost beat thanos.
For the last time, Hulk was not scared to face Thanos. Thanos wasn’t even present when Hulk refused to come out both times in Infinity War.
It's always seemed so weird to me that Hulk, probably one of the top three Marvel characters (in terms of public recognition at the start of the MCU at least) gets almost all of his character development off-screen. Like, I don't hate Professor Hulk at all, he's a great character, but Marvel skipping over how Bruce went from broken and unable to even bring the Hulk out in an end of the world scenario to Professor Hulk is criminal.
It's hard to see how they can fully explore a lot of Hulk's themes anymore, with where the character is currently. Banner has to be isolated and alone for you to really understand his curse. Where he is at the moment, everyone loves him, kids are walking up to Hulk and asking for selfies, it just doesn't work.
I guess they could explore the interim between Infinity War and End Game, have him feel useless after the snap, have the isolation be self-imposed, and maybe Bruce tries some things to bring out the Hulk and it goes badly and we get some of the other versions of Hulk making an appearance. That could work, although Black Widow kind of put me off the idea of going back and exploring time between other movies, because nothing in that movie felt it had any weight or mattered to what we know came next.
The only other way I can see it working is that you take maybe a character like the Leader, boost his psychic abilities and have him control Hulk to do some bad stuff, make him the villain in the public perception again. Maybe even hide that this is what's happening at first, pitch it as Bruce/Hulk losing control and going too far and he goes more and more off the rails, questioning who is in control, he is forced underground, we get to explore some of his other personas, and then maybe the realisation that Hulk and Bruce need to work together to stop what's being done to them.
I dunno though, it feels like maybe the ship has sailed already on another big solo Hulk project. I'm still looking forward to She Hulk so I guess let's see where that leaves our jolly green giant by the end.
I completely agree. Although, now I'm getting really tired getting let down by Disney/marvel on how they ridicule every character just because having a dramatic character could lead the audience to feel bad emotions. The Hulk is my favourite character (in comics) and I have wanted a Hulk movie for a long time, but I really think they're going to sideline him. Maybe he could be a mentor for the Young Avengers. I hope a little that something happens in the SheHulk show that takes him back to a darker place or maybe just seeing abomination brings back an imbalance to his relationship between hulk and Bruce or maybe, in the future, there will be a Hulk Family show/film that could see him as a leader, but sadly I doubt that. The MCU needs to understand that the contrast between a dramatic character like bruce and a fun one, like Thor, would benefit even the comedy. If everyone is funny, than no one will be truly funny.
I hope my comment makes some sense
When Infinity war ended I was very intrigued in where he Hulk's journey was heading. Bruce literally teases on it saying him and hulk is gonna have a lot of conversation. And at the Endgame, they just skipped his character progress off screen and made him a comic relief. People seemed to have laughed on the Taco scene but I actively facepalmed.
I cannot agree more with this video, incredible commentary. I thought I was alone in my feelings of how the entire Hulk story arc was played out.
i think another thing is that the movies are a lot more accessable than the comics, so myself and a lot of other mcu fans had no context for 'proffessor hulk' (which if i remember right he isnt even refered to as) as this 'development' came even more out of nowhere. i wouldve loved to see him actually deal with his shit. i think a lot of the mcu movies could handle having a bit more texture to them. far from home was a rad movie but i wouldve loved to see it touch on heavier topics of imposter syndrome and loss. black widow has one of the heaviest backstories out of the avengers and her movie felt like such a disservice to her. we dont see a lot of the actual trauma of her childhood, or what she is fighting for, a lot of it is left to be implied but for an origin story esque movie they had a lot more story to play with. and hulk is left totally underused and underdeveloped. we know next to nothing about the person bruce or the moster of hulk. we dont get to see them enough to know how one feels about the other besides quips in ragnarok. sometimes it feels as though we are expected to already have this context going into the movies.
What if we had seen Bruce in Endgame as ...just Bruce. He hasn't turned into Hulk since Infinity War ended. He is finally free but not happy. He finally has what he's wanted for years but feels like he has a part of him missing. Instead of Hulk running around saving people, he's doing it as Bruce Banner. Using his own genius intellect to fight crime and create technologies to help people.
Then they go through the whole scenario with the tine heist and when Brice asks Clint where Nat is, he falls into despair and loses control and all his anger and rage slips out releasing the Hulk, but this time it's like the World War Hulk, where both Brice and Hulk are working together making them stronger and smarter than usual. We get a rematch with Thanos where Hulk nearly kills the mad titan only to be stopped when Thanos activates an infinity stone.
I think you hit the nail on the head off the hop, the Universal relationship is the issue. I think we often forget the biz side of these films and this one is very much a combo of that relationship and some soft grosses on the 2 standalones. I love the hulk, but from the biz side, I think this situation will continue to park him the back and in the passenger seat at best.
She Hulk Ep 1:
Im excited to see Bruce jealous of Jen and loved to see him let out a bit of rage in their fight
She Hulk Ep 2:
Im conflicted because I dont understand why he's left the planet with all the gear/equipment and I can only remain hopeful that his Prof Hulk form will dissipate and result in an even angrier, stronger Hulk
I agree with you. Hulk has been ruined. They just erased fourteen years of character development in Endgame by removing the character entirely. All that is left is Banner. Hulk no longer exists. It's such a waste of a character.
I do disagree that 2008 Hulk was good though. It was rather meh.
THE INCREDIBLE HULK IS THE BEST HULK MOVIE.
@@TheyCallMe_TC nah
I know Ang Lees 2003 film isn’t looked upon kindly, but I still think that film does a great job at showing a unique take on the darkness of the hulk. In the film, Hulk is a sort of hidden anger and resentment to Banners father, who experimented on him and killed his mother. This in turn causes Banner to develop a temper when his past life is mentioned, going so far as to scream at his dad when he makes an appearance after the accident. When hulk initially comes out, you see that it’s the bottled up anger from all those years ago finally all coming back, and Hulk is the trauma given to Bruce punishing the world. Even when his dad tries to calm him down, you see the memories of the good life Bruce had as a baby, but the pure hatred against his father for what he did causes the hulk to snap back to his angry self. I think it’s a great commentary on the cycle of abuse and how abusive parenting lasts long after the parent is gone from the picture. I know people like to say the film is a bore because it’s not just “hulk smash” all the time, but I think if it were released today, it would’ve been treated just like Joker was in 2019, and it would’ve been considered a deeper take on the superhero genre. And I wish that some inspiration would be taken from it in terms of story and action, because I don’t care what anyone says, hulk vs the tanks is mad hype
Hulk: stops whatever this is 11:54
also Hulk: can't stop a car in She-Hulk.
I always thought that the possibility Black Widow, underneath it all, was actually leading on Bruce in order to make sure The Hulk would never try to kill her again was the overall root of their tension. She has to have known that Betty was able to calm him, and, considering he is the only one that could/would kill her, she wouldn't take any chances.
Hulk's guilt over his South African rampage, and understanding that this team only uses him for his strength and would rather have Banner around, made him depressed enough to leave Earth all together the first chance he gets.
If not a movie. They could at least gave Bruce Banners Hulk its own show.
Universal apparently won't allow it. Personally I wouldn't have minded seeing Universal bring back the same cast from the 2008 movie and making a sequel. But now it's probably to late. I think Disney/Marvel might be getting the rights back to the Hulk in 2023. Maybe then we will get another Hulk movie or TV show.
@@minionguy6996 i think universal only has rights to a hulk film and not a show
I feel like there was a HUGE and irresponsibly missed opportunity in Infinity War with having Bruce in the Hulkbuster suit having hulk bust out of the suit (heh pun) and helping thor change the obvious tide in wakandas battle with the outriders. And then to add on even is to have still the scene with all of the avengers trying to stop Thanos and still not be able to but with one huge difference being that the last 2 avengers being that of Thor and Hulk also trying to stop Thanos and giving him a really good run for his money in a very tensionfilled and serious fight somewhat reminiscent of having Dr strange trying to keep Thanos from using the gauntlet as much as possible but still inevitably having Thanos the winner of the fight that would have made for a epic finale to an already amazing movie with some minor edits to it and fixing hulks character by having him and Bruce make up and try to beat Thanos with thor tag teaming with hulk as well.
my dream of the next MCU Hulk solo movie would take notes from how the Breaking Bad Universe utilizes flashbacks or "missing scenes" to emphasize character growth/development. Vince Giligan and Peter Gould used this a lot in El Camino and used it even more especially in this last season of Better Call Saul. The characters of Jesse Pinkman and Saul/Gene/Jimmy were developed and concluded really well with the flashback scenes contributing further context and emphasis to how far the characters have gone to the contrast of succeeding scenes in the present timeline. I can imagine this being used with "missing scenes" from the movies that Hulk has appeared in and contrast them with the current character conflict being done in the "present timeline" of the movie. Will Vince Giligan or Peter Gould ever take on an MCU project? I hope so!
3:43 Gotta say I disagree - I feel like Thor is the one whose story in team-ups has felt the most poorly thought out and thrown together, particularly as Infinity War & Endgame just immediately undo any development he really had in Ragnarok (including getting rid of the physical scars).
I do, however, agree with the general point that Hulk's been underserved, and the main problem is that he's been forced to get all his development in ensemble films or team-ups in which he is *not* the main character, which has led to a rushing of all the points they wanted to hit, even pushing some off-camera. I don't think anyone can convince me that Infinity War/Endgame were best served by Hulk refusing to come out throughout the events of IW then a "Professor Hulk" situation being established off-camera in Endgame - all they needed to do was have a slight breakthrough (Hulk begrudgingly agreeing to help in the finale, then being too far away/still unable to stop Thanos) and it would at least make some sense.
We’ve never seen a hulk smash or clap in action after 2008
You just HAD to post this while I was editing my video about how Hulk in Endgame is Good, Actually.
HE's not good in Endgame though... He's pointless
@@cmohr6998 ok, but u wrong tho. The conflict literally doesn’t resolve without him.
Lol plz don't make that title! That's "is good actually" thing is so overused 😭
@@digitalzealot7026 I’m open to suggestions
@@ThePonderer I guess just call it "why the hulk in endgame was better than you think" or something like that 😭 probably something that stands out more than what I said~~
The thing I'm most sad about is that the way the mcu is going we'll never get to see the World War Hulk storyline, which is my personal favorite marvel storyline ever.
Great video, as always. Endgame felt like a letdown to everything they had built up for every character. I have a theory though, which I doubt will be the case, that the reason they didn’t show us them resolve their issues and merge is because Bruce is lying. From what we’re shown, Bruce and Hulk are two separate individuals, with their own thoughts and feelings. Professor Hulk though seems to be entirely Bruce’s mind with access to Hulk’s body and strength, but what does Hulk get out of this deal? I feel like Bruce trapped Hulk in the equivalent of the sunken place from Get Out or Malkovich, and hopefully World War Hulk (if it’s not cancelled) will be Hulk breaking out.
In Age of Ultron, Natasha doesn't think she's a monster because she's infertile, she thinks she's a monster because she's a coldblooded murderer. The way the line is phrased makes it sound like it's the infertility thing that weighs on her conscience, so it makes sense that you (and pretty much everyone else) got the wrong impression from that scene.
In Infinity War, Hulk doesn't cooperate because he's sick of being Bruce's "Get of of Jail Free" card. The director's commentary of the movie makes it clear that Hulk was removed from that story to force Bruce to be the self-reliant hero for once. It had nothing to do with being afraid of Thanos. That said, I still think Prof Hulk bursting out of the Hulkbuster suit would be the better course of action, especially because after that fight, we see Natasha try to do the Lullaby, only for Banner to say "Don't worry, we figured it out."
Ultimately, I do agree that Prof Hulk opening a martial arts can whoop-ass on Thanos in place of Captain Marvel in Endgame would've been awesome. And maybe the reason he's still beaten (forcing Tony to take the Stones) could have something to do with his fried arm.
Tbh you could have him lose the same way cm did, just have thanos resort to the power stone to one shot