So concise. I turned two valves, set the controller temperature, turned on the power to the controller and presto the automatic valve moved to the correct position. Thank you.
THANK YOU for the "bubbles in pool" section. This is explaining a lot of the weird small issues I've been having that all of my pool service professionals have been completely unable to figure out; including one who specializes in pool leaks.
I live in CA and even though it's 95 every day or hotter the pool seems to stay at 77-78. I have turned solar to 95 but no change. Only days in the hundreds does it seem to get up to 83-84-85. Our pool guy says it's working but I have doubts. Thank you for a long overdue video explaining the process. Maybe something is going on with the panels on top of the roof. This video was very helpful. Thank you!
Thanks for the great video guys, relatively new pool w/ solar heating owner here. Question: when I raise my temp on my GL-235 x244, the valve goes to the close position bypassing the solar. Does that make sense? If I want the temp higher shouldn’t it send the water to the solar?
This video is primarily published for our clients, but I'm so happy it has helped so many people far and wide. We get tons of comments by email and on our website.
My problem is that large bubbles contiune to come in to the pool when the solor is turned on. My pool guy says that the air bleeder valves on the panels needs to be looked at. He cleaned all my filters (4) but he did say that I need new ones soon.
I noticed that the solar heat water pipes are installed on a tiled roof. What precautions do you take to make sure that the roof tiles are not damaged since these tiles tend to break easily? Thanks.
What type of check valve is that on the return? Do you prefer to bring back the solar return directly to the pool? I would think the least amount of back pressure on the panels the better.
The valve is made by Magic Plastics. It is very reliable with a quality alloy spring. Yes, less backpressure is better. We typically use the existing pool returns. There are some tricks, but usually it isn't an issue.
What do you recommend on the series vs parallel panel installations? We are installing 16 4X12s (not in Florida, sorry). Would you - generally, I know there are many variables - recommend 2 runs of 8 panels, 3 runs of 5/6 panels or 4 runs of 4 panels? flat room, 2 inch water lines, all of the latest Pentair equipment.
Generally, never put panels in series. They should always be in parallel. Think of it this way. If you arrange panels in 2 sets in series you heat water up in the first set, which efficiently heats the water. Then that water makes it to the second set in series and the water is already heated. Trying to heat water that is already heated is less efficient. There will be less heat transfer in the second set of panels. For a system this large you should consider two banks of 8, parallel fed from the center and parallel returned from the two far corners. This should balance the flow across the two banks. If you need additional flow balancing due to distances, heights, or other reasons you can install ball valves to adjust flow. If installing at different heights you will need to plumb everything to a common high point. And for a system that size you will need a lot of flow... something on the order of 80 GPM. Consider your pump size and existing plumbing to make sure it is adequate.
If the solar bypass valve is in the bypass position (not heating) you're saying that water can still get through the valve and get to the roof? If not, I see no reason to have a separate isolation valve.
@@floridasolardesigngroup correct, but all the ones I've seen are one way valves so they only allows water to drain from the roof. Water cannot get up to the roof if it's in the bypass position.
@@robertb2744 there is one valve on the .market from Pentair that has an integrated check valve that allows drain down as you suggest. However, the vast majority of solar bypass valves simply have a hole purposefully drilled in the gate. This allows a small amount of water to evade the valve and go up to the roof while letting it to drain down efficiently. In addition, the Pentair valve does not provide 100% sealing and is subject to deterioration over the years, hence the need for an isolation valve that can provide a positively secure seal.
@@floridasolardesigngroup I understand now. I've only dealt with Pentair valves which is why it never made sense to me. I could see the valve wearing out over time but I will buy a new valve and switch it out when it does.
@@robertb2744 you can buy the "guts" of those valves, but it costs almost as much as the valve itself. Regardless, it's easier than replacing the whole valve. You can also use standard valve guts in the solar check valve body and just drill a hole. We have seen numerous problems with loud drain down valves in Pentair solar valves that buzz as they fail. But some work reliably for many many years. All pool dynamics are different, so your mileage may vary.
When it's 90 degrees outside, an 80 degree pool feels very cold! And pools only naturally reach 80 degrees about 9 months of the year. Our busy season is the coldest time of the year, and that's when people flock to Florida and want to enjoy their pools!
Prices are wide-ranging depending on pool size, roof type, roof orientation, distance to the pool pump, automation integration, and many more factors. Most of our systems fall into a range of $3,000 - $5,000 installed including engineering and permitting (turnkey). Some are lower for exceptionally small pools and spas and some are higher for large pools or complex projects. The price of a solar pool heater is similar to installing an electric heat pump, but there are no ongoing added electric bills!
Where would you recommend the temperature sensors be placed? The roof one is easy, but should the pool temp sensor be placed in a pipe before or after the filter? Any difference in location?
@JoeKissell81 There is a valve or hole within the 3-way bypass valve that allows water to drain down to the pool when the pump is off. So no, water would not be trapped in the panels. Proper drainage is important in climates where freezing occurs. Obviously we don't deal with that here in Southwest Florida, but we still design systems to drain to prevent stagnation in panels, which can cause heat buildup and service issues over time. Some systems simply can't drain due to the plumbing run, and those systems can have manual drain valves installed.
Aloha! What is the reason for draining the system every night? What can’t the water just stay in the piping and the pump resumes every morning without having to release air pressure all the time?
believe it or not, even here in Southwest Florida we encounter freezing conditions or near freezing conditions on rare occasion. Freezing can damage the solar panels due to expansion. Because black panels emit heat to the black sky, freeze damage can occur even slightly above freezing ambient temperatures. Therefore, we ensure the system drains fully each night. Also, and this climate, stagnating hot water tends to soften plumbing, cause warping, and sometimes cause discoloration of the PVC.
Our set temperature is lower than the actual water temperature. Yet, the solar stays on. Therefore, the pool is continuously heating up. The thermometer (pool sensor) is good and correct. Why won’t our solor stop running/heating the pool after the desire temperature is achieved?
Hi Jen. It's unclear what you mean by "the solar stays on." If the controller says Solar On and the setpoint is lower than the pool temperature, you may have a faulty controller. Try resetting it by removing and restoring power to it. If you mean that the solar valve stays in the on position, the toggle switch on the valve actuator may be in the wrong position, the middle (off) position, or your valve actuator motor may have failed. More information is needed to help you.
@@floridasolardesigngroup Thank you for replying. The control box says ‘Solar Heat Off’, but yet the automatic rotating valve always stays (and in black letters) states ‘Solar On’. Even if the pool pump is off, the valve never moves into the Off position. If the pool pump is on, the pool jets continuously shoot warm water into the pool, even way beyond desired temperature has been reached. I finally changed the pool pump settings to only run during the night so the solar will stop heating our pool up.
@@JenFlutterby Then you have an actuator issue. This might help you: floridasolardesigngroup.com/solar-pool-heating-valve-actuator-toggle-switch-position/
To the valve company. Change your handle position so that the handle lines up with the direction of water flow. Must have been a preschooler that designed your valve.
All pool valves from the major manufacturers have been this way for decades. If you think about it, the 3-way valves would be ambiguous if you did it the other way. With these valves, the OFF tab always points to the pipe that is blocked. For pool professionals, these valves are intuitive and easy to understand.
That's impossible to say. Every pool and solar panel system is different, resulting in different system pressures. You need a flow meter or a trained technician who knows how to determine the proper flow.
After the water returns from the roof, plumb in the heat pump inline before water returns to the pool. You will need to use more advanced automation, or you will need to increase the setpoint temperature on the heat pump controls because it will sense the slightly warmer water coming down from the solar panels.
@@apex36 You don't want to do that. You want the solar to provide as much heat as possible. Since the sensor in the heat pump senses the incoming solar-heated water, you have to trick it into staying on. This is not an issue if you have pool automation that handles multiple heat sources. However, not all pool automation allows operation of solar heaters and heat pumps simultaneously. Required workarounds are common.
@@apex36 That is a solar controller only. It does not automate a heat pump in any way. If you want your heat pump automated other than it's internal control panel, you need more advanced pool automation.
Only if you install a second set of Pannels on the other side of the planet or on the moon! If your pool water is very cold and the ambient air is very warm it will still work.
People from up North frequently ask this question. Swimming pools in Southwest Florida get down to 65° at the coldest time of year. Seasonal residents want to enjoy their pool during the cooler months in Florida. Without pool heating, swimming pools are below 80° for more than half the year. Moreover, it's the relative temperature that matters. Often times, it is 90° outside and pools are in the low 80s due to low night time temperatures. That relative difference makes getting in the pool unattractive. There's a good reason that virtually all pools in Southwest Florida have at least one heat g option, with tens of thousands of solar pool heaters.
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
So concise. I turned two valves, set the controller temperature, turned on the power to the controller and presto the automatic valve moved to the correct position. Thank you.
this is the most informative video to explain solar heating for a pool that I have found! thank you so much for your help
I'm happy you gained some benefit from our work. All the best!
THANK YOU for the "bubbles in pool" section. This is explaining a lot of the weird small issues I've been having that all of my pool service professionals have been completely unable to figure out; including one who specializes in pool leaks.
90%+ of the issues we see with solar pool heaters have to do with dirty filters. I'm not kidding.
Super helpful video. Thank you!
Glad we could help!
great drone shots and information. I liked. post more vids.
Best explanation I have found! Thankkyou very much!
I live in CA and even though it's 95 every day or hotter the pool seems to stay at 77-78. I have turned solar to 95 but no change. Only days in the hundreds does it seem to get up to 83-84-85. Our pool guy says it's working but I have doubts. Thank you for a long overdue video explaining the process. Maybe something is going on with the panels on top of the roof. This video was very helpful. Thank you!
its not working
This video is incredibly helpful. Thank you!
Thanks for the great video guys, relatively new pool w/ solar heating owner here. Question: when I raise my temp on my GL-235 x244, the valve goes to the close position bypassing the solar. Does that make sense? If I want the temp higher shouldn’t it send the water to the solar?
Now that’s information. Top class vid
This video is primarily published for our clients, but I'm so happy it has helped so many people far and wide. We get tons of comments by email and on our website.
Thank you for a very informative and well produced video.
My problem is that large bubbles contiune to come in to the pool when the solor is turned on. My pool guy says that the air bleeder valves on the panels needs to be looked at. He cleaned all my filters (4) but he did say that I need new ones soon.
I am in need of a solar pool heater and reside in Heidelberg, MS. Do you provide service?
Great info. Thanks
Great video
Valves work counter intuitively. They should point in the direction of water flow not against it.
This style of valve is open when the handle is perpendicular to the pipe. There is a small 'off' tab that points to the pipe that is blocked.
very helpful... thanks so much!
What brand are these valves? I live in NY and would like to purchase these valves and the PVC fittings. Can you give more details of the products?
I noticed that the solar heat water pipes are installed on a tiled roof. What precautions do you take to make sure that the roof tiles are not damaged since these tiles tend to break easily? Thanks.
Training, experience, methods, and materials. An experienced and qualified solar contractor in our area handles tile roofs with ease.
What type of check valve is that on the return?
Do you prefer to bring back the solar return directly to the pool? I would think the least amount of back pressure on the panels the better.
The valve is made by Magic Plastics. It is very reliable with a quality alloy spring.
Yes, less backpressure is better. We typically use the existing pool returns. There are some tricks, but usually it isn't an issue.
What do you recommend on the series vs parallel panel installations? We are installing 16 4X12s (not in Florida, sorry). Would you - generally, I know there are many variables - recommend 2 runs of 8 panels, 3 runs of 5/6 panels or 4 runs of 4 panels? flat room, 2 inch water lines, all of the latest Pentair equipment.
Generally, never put panels in series. They should always be in parallel. Think of it this way. If you arrange panels in 2 sets in series you heat water up in the first set, which efficiently heats the water. Then that water makes it to the second set in series and the water is already heated. Trying to heat water that is already heated is less efficient. There will be less heat transfer in the second set of panels. For a system this large you should consider two banks of 8, parallel fed from the center and parallel returned from the two far corners. This should balance the flow across the two banks. If you need additional flow balancing due to distances, heights, or other reasons you can install ball valves to adjust flow. If installing at different heights you will need to plumb everything to a common high point. And for a system that size you will need a lot of flow... something on the order of 80 GPM. Consider your pump size and existing plumbing to make sure it is adequate.
If the solar bypass valve is in the bypass position (not heating) you're saying that water can still get through the valve and get to the roof? If not, I see no reason to have a separate isolation valve.
There is a small hole in the bypass valve that allows the water to drain back to the pool when the pump shuts off.
@@floridasolardesigngroup correct, but all the ones I've seen are one way valves so they only allows water to drain from the roof. Water cannot get up to the roof if it's in the bypass position.
@@robertb2744 there is one valve on the .market from Pentair that has an integrated check valve that allows drain down as you suggest. However, the vast majority of solar bypass valves simply have a hole purposefully drilled in the gate. This allows a small amount of water to evade the valve and go up to the roof while letting it to drain down efficiently. In addition, the Pentair valve does not provide 100% sealing and is subject to deterioration over the years, hence the need for an isolation valve that can provide a positively secure seal.
@@floridasolardesigngroup I understand now. I've only dealt with Pentair valves which is why it never made sense to me. I could see the valve wearing out over time but I will buy a new valve and switch it out when it does.
@@robertb2744 you can buy the "guts" of those valves, but it costs almost as much as the valve itself. Regardless, it's easier than replacing the whole valve. You can also use standard valve guts in the solar check valve body and just drill a hole. We have seen numerous problems with loud drain down valves in Pentair solar valves that buzz as they fail. But some work reliably for many many years. All pool dynamics are different, so your mileage may vary.
fantastic looking pool but why would anyone need to heat the water in a swimming pool in florida?
When it's 90 degrees outside, an 80 degree pool feels very cold! And pools only naturally reach 80 degrees about 9 months of the year. Our busy season is the coldest time of the year, and that's when people flock to Florida and want to enjoy their pools!
Are the anchors and super clips need to be screwed to the rafters?
You don't mention the average or typical cost for a mid range system installed with controller. How much $$$?
Prices are wide-ranging depending on pool size, roof type, roof orientation, distance to the pool pump, automation integration, and many more factors. Most of our systems fall into a range of $3,000 - $5,000 installed including engineering and permitting (turnkey). Some are lower for exceptionally small pools and spas and some are higher for large pools or complex projects. The price of a solar pool heater is similar to installing an electric heat pump, but there are no ongoing added electric bills!
Where would you recommend the temperature sensors be placed? The roof one is easy, but should the pool temp sensor be placed in a pipe before or after the filter? Any difference in location?
Either location would work.
wont a check valve on the return side inhibit the draining of the panels possibly causing boiling of the water inside the panels?
The return line check valve prevents water from going up to the panels (in reverse). It does not prevent water from draining.
Water flows from the bottom to the top of the panels. They drain thru the feed pipe after the solar AND pump shut off.
Wouldn't water stay on top of the lower check valve and freeze during the winter?
@JoeKissell81 There is a valve or hole within the 3-way bypass valve that allows water to drain down to the pool when the pump is off. So no, water would not be trapped in the panels. Proper drainage is important in climates where freezing occurs. Obviously we don't deal with that here in Southwest Florida, but we still design systems to drain to prevent stagnation in panels, which can cause heat buildup and service issues over time. Some systems simply can't drain due to the plumbing run, and those systems can have manual drain valves installed.
Aloha! What is the reason for draining the system every night? What can’t the water just stay in the piping and the pump resumes every morning without having to release air pressure all the time?
believe it or not, even here in Southwest Florida we encounter freezing conditions or near freezing conditions on rare occasion. Freezing can damage the solar panels due to expansion. Because black panels emit heat to the black sky, freeze damage can occur even slightly above freezing ambient temperatures. Therefore, we ensure the system drains fully each night. Also, and this climate, stagnating hot water tends to soften plumbing, cause warping, and sometimes cause discoloration of the PVC.
Florida Solar Design Group thanks for the response - my guess was stagnant water over time, or, the weight of the water on the valves during non use
What brand of panels do you use?
iSwim from Solar Hydronics Corp in Odessa, FL.
How do you feel about FAFCO?
Do the panels work on a flat roof?
Our set temperature is lower than the actual water temperature. Yet, the solar stays on. Therefore, the pool is continuously heating up.
The thermometer (pool sensor) is good and correct. Why won’t our solor stop running/heating the pool after the desire temperature is achieved?
Hi Jen. It's unclear what you mean by "the solar stays on." If the controller says Solar On and the setpoint is lower than the pool temperature, you may have a faulty controller. Try resetting it by removing and restoring power to it. If you mean that the solar valve stays in the on position, the toggle switch on the valve actuator may be in the wrong position, the middle (off) position, or your valve actuator motor may have failed. More information is needed to help you.
@@floridasolardesigngroup
Thank you for replying. The control box says ‘Solar Heat Off’, but yet the automatic rotating valve always stays (and in black letters) states ‘Solar On’.
Even if the pool pump is off, the valve never moves into the Off position. If the pool pump is on, the pool jets continuously shoot warm water into the pool, even way beyond desired temperature has been reached.
I finally changed the pool pump settings to only run during the night so the solar will stop heating our pool up.
@@JenFlutterby Then you have an actuator issue. This might help you: floridasolardesigngroup.com/solar-pool-heating-valve-actuator-toggle-switch-position/
And of course, if we installed your system, we are happy to help! Call the office and leave a message. We monitor the inbox even on holiday weekends.
To the valve company. Change your handle position so that the handle lines up with the direction of water flow. Must have been a preschooler that designed your valve.
All pool valves from the major manufacturers have been this way for decades. If you think about it, the 3-way valves would be ambiguous if you did it the other way. With these valves, the OFF tab always points to the pipe that is blocked. For pool professionals, these valves are intuitive and easy to understand.
I want to know the full system and all equipment name and diagram please help me.
How much pump RPM do I need to feed to the roof solar?
That's impossible to say. Every pool and solar panel system is different, resulting in different system pressures. You need a flow meter or a trained technician who knows how to determine the proper flow.
How would you add a heat pump to this set up
After the water returns from the roof, plumb in the heat pump inline before water returns to the pool. You will need to use more advanced automation, or you will need to increase the setpoint temperature on the heat pump controls because it will sense the slightly warmer water coming down from the solar panels.
@@floridasolardesigngroup or instead decrease the set point on the solar?
@@apex36 You don't want to do that. You want the solar to provide as much heat as possible. Since the sensor in the heat pump senses the incoming solar-heated water, you have to trick it into staying on. This is not an issue if you have pool automation that handles multiple heat sources. However, not all pool automation allows operation of solar heaters and heat pumps simultaneously. Required workarounds are common.
@@floridasolardesigngroup i have the same control you show on the videl
@@apex36 That is a solar controller only. It does not automate a heat pump in any way. If you want your heat pump automated other than it's internal control panel, you need more advanced pool automation.
Will this work at night?
Only if you install a second set of Pannels on the other side of the planet or on the moon! If your pool water is very cold and the ambient air is very warm it will still work.
Cool the pool during the summer.
👍
Why would you need to heat a pool in Florida?
People from up North frequently ask this question. Swimming pools in Southwest Florida get down to 65° at the coldest time of year. Seasonal residents want to enjoy their pool during the cooler months in Florida. Without pool heating, swimming pools are below 80° for more than half the year. Moreover, it's the relative temperature that matters. Often times, it is 90° outside and pools are in the low 80s due to low night time temperatures. That relative difference makes getting in the pool unattractive. There's a good reason that virtually all pools in Southwest Florida have at least one heat g option, with tens of thousands of solar pool heaters.
Great video