Can thought be controlled? | Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 29 мар 2024
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In Buddhist insight meditation you are observing the thought more than controlling it, the observation leads to the understanding of the nature of the mind and its impermanence. This leads to great control of ones mind and wisdom follows. To forcefully control thought is just concentration, and that may be in a mantra or on anything, but is quite different in my understanding to insight meditation
I have great respect for Jiddu Krishnamurti. However, his claim that all systems of meditation assert that thought must be controlled is a false claim. While some systems may assert that, I have found that most do not, including many of those he mentions specifically. The common misunderstanding that meditation is about controlling your thoughts is usually perpetuated by people who don't actually practice meditation, as well as a handful of unqualified meditation instructors. But most meditation practices are simply about learning not to engage with thoughts, which includes not trying to stop them or control them, because that is also a kind of engagement. The practice is about letting thoughts come and go without grasping onto them nor pushing them away, and simply taking no interest in their content. This is what most systems of meditation teach.
Krishnaji habla de la Percepción Unitaria que es la función dormida del cerebro, en la última charla en video en Brockwood Park en 1985 termina desechando la palabra meditación diciendo que es una palabra estúpida que no describe lo que es trataba dar entender. La Percepción Unitaria no es una práctica sino el despertar inmediato de todos los sentidos Pero explicado de la forma más científica posible. Es el maha raja yoga más grande y la verdadera meditación del Buddha.
If you see the fact , actually by following different methods finally we understand that there is no methods
He was human , not God or something special than human .... He was amazing at observing self and others ... I think he was more intuitive of psychology than present psychologist. But still he was human , and being human you are bound to make mistake.
He is right. But also wrong. Systems can and cant help. When you are watching thoughts why are you watching them? The control is unconcious. You want to control them so in order to accomplish that you are told to watch them.
Sir, Krishnaji is right.
You considered meditation practice or system but it isn't any practice or any system. If there is system or something practice to do then for sure it's not meditation.
Thanks!
Well explained! One of the most important lectures for mankind. Thank you sir!
Thank you krishnaji 🙏🙏❤️
Phenomenal audio quality. Thank you for this!
Thank you for all your efforts and continuing to post these clips. They are extremely insightful.
Thanks
MIND IS RUNNING
Genius ❤
Yes it is so it’s often happens in many decisions one thought say Yes and others say No and some times it’s regrets so regrets is also a thought and in real there is no such thing as regrets how beautiful ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
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The speaker and me (listener) are both the thoughts
It also is me reading the comment
Thoughts are not to be listened to, we can only think about them. We are just something they take from place to place.
🙏🙏🙏
Classic
I know this but yet I need deep realisation.
The Zen system is the system I rely on for response
Thoughts itself disturbing the thoughts and disturbed by itself.So Both are one and the same.
Jiddu has said in nutshell that consciousness of mankind is one. One has to be beyond realm of thaught and time for "nameless to come in to being." Jiddu is beyond comparision. As Awaken insight said not to take intrest in thaught,but by doing so, one is still in realm of thaught.Here, one has to accept his thaught as his and observe the arising thaught as it's creator/generator. That's how thaught vanishes/ loses it's existence.(This stage is to be reached first.)In this process all become one, division or entity dissolves and emptiness comes in... for "nameless"/god to enter or say come in to being.
If you take interest in not taking interest in something then you are already taking interest in it.
We don't create our thoughts. For example, you will always think about anything that you see with your eyes, but you have no control of what happens in front of your eyes.
Both are thoughts; One assumes dominance and tries to control the other.
This is how one sees and hears the way outer reacts where two parts of our brain plays with memory and body by nerve and muscles.conneced with bones.
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That‘s my biggest conflict within myself, one thought is trying to dominate the other.
So take your time to see within the gut feeling,and will give you the answer
No control only observe.
Please give full video link
Will u please post remaining part @the k foundation
En the end.. No matter what you do, nothing will be done without awareness.
Infact it can be controlled sit down with your mind out of reality and meditate upon what is effects the thought imagine and you will see where the problem occurred.😊
You cannot think about thoughts without thinking about the world. Once you think about the world you will notice they are two completely different things, which means thoughts are not of this world. But even if they are not from this world, they will feel like they are, if they refer to the world, this means if they say something (anything) about the world. But not every thought refers to the world. It is the world with EVERYTHING included in it that makes thoughts impossible to be controlled. But again, not every thought refers to the world. Thoughts that refer to the world are impossible to avoid and they can be extremely nasty, because the world can be a nice place to you, but a horrendous one to anyone next to you. They can be nasty in many ways. Thoughts that don't refer to the world do refer to something else, something I wish everyone could find. But even if you find these thoughts, far from being unavoidable, you depend on being lucky enough so that the world lets you think about them. The world, with everything included in it, and even a large portion of you yourself, is everything a complete scam.
The best advise to say here even Buddha's teachings says for living happy is to think thoughtless
where can i listen to the full talk?
Thoughts can't be controlled. u can give alternative thoughts to the base thoughts to clam it down ,u can allow it to happen according to ur need strength direction .. and all thoughts are not obsulute facts .. just it use ur thoughts to enhance life in u .to live a better life
Just sit in silence there''s no system
any video of JK i give it a like not bc I just like what he says but bc he uses not anger and says truth
Its not control= how 2 use it...instead 2 be used by it. Its not good 2 surpress it or identify with...its rather 2 figure it out.
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here i like to add that i disagree with Krishnamuthyji's idea that thought controlling another thought is not feasible..thought controlling another thought is a stepping stone, is a initial process and not the whole meditation. as I understand from Buddhist perspective a thought can act as antidote to destroy another harmful thought ....for example...if you are not satisfied with all the wealth you have you might consider to divert your attention to people living in misery and when you compare you realise how lucky you are with what you have....it mitigate the misery rising from wild thoughts which mostly is a misunderstanding created by ourself...i wonder what kind of meditation he is refering here ..single pointed meditation or analytical meditation. In both meditation there are ways to remain undisturbed...and remain undisturb you must use thougth as an antitode anyways..in order to master mediations you have to use thogutjjs anyways....otherwise how can you remain calm or undisturbed...in order for muddy water to settle down you have to stop churning it...and to stop churning itself is another process of not churning...its antidote...to understand anything you have to think..without thinking how can we understand ..once we understand the thoughts settles itself as a result, and then there is no thought and you are able to meditate....moreover Buddhism teaching have ways to make people of different level of acumen to understand with different level of teaching...Tibetan Buddhism doesn't teach philosophy in a same way to a foolish person as it teaches to a clever person...or in same way to an impatient person as to a patient person....it's like teaching Tibetan buddhism in German language to a German man and in French language to a French man.
However other genuine forms and systems of meditation, if practiced sincerely, they work for you and you can understand JK teachings like this even better😅. Otherwise, many don't get it, they simply go away from JK - they think what nonsense he is talking because they can't listen to JK (can't listen, not don't listen). Later they may become capable of listening and for that other systems and practices are crucial.
He is just shouting or talking from the mountain peak and people on the ground cannot hear, cannot get it. Some who climbed the mountain and went went near to his frequency are able to hear it, yet not all get it😂. I listened to Jk's teachings hours and hours together (not saying as a qualification but I just noticed this after reading many comments😅). If you get this and laugh, we are together.
So, JK saying that practices, systems won't do anything, they (may) again trap you is both right and wrong because unfortunately most people don't get it without going through practices - and JK is teaching PhD syllabus to school kids as well as PhD candidates and so only PhD candidates get it. School kids say - "what nonsense is this". And this is all natural.
My parents and other elders call actor Upendra movies and his acting in his films like A, Upendra as stupid, "why is he acting mad and making stupid mad movies?" but I just love Upendra movies and get excited. That's how it is.
I'm fond of JK teachings, I love them, understand them to the best of my capabilities but I know he is not for all. For many others, others work well.
Broadly two ways - enquiry like JK.
Emotional based - devotional paths(usually I don't like purely devotional as they have some problem according to me but for many, devotion works very well and for them JK teachings are simply nonsense and it's right for them to feel that away, not for all. For many others, devotion feels nonsense.
Then we have karma path and raja yoga. Raja yoga or yoga by including enquiry and devotion is better way too. However, there are many kinds of individuals, so different things work differently for people. Thus, we need to see this wholistically.
Spirituality is not just only Jk or JK like enquiry teachings, there are several paths, methods, practices needed for people and JK is one the great spiritual masters in his own unique way. His method is like nethi nethi(not this, not this). Even when JK says, there's no method, that itself is a method😅 and he's absolutely bloody sincere in that and so we fall into trap of admiring it and some against it.
Nur das Nichts dringt ins Lückenlose.