M28/76: A Finnish Competition & Sniper Mosin
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- utreon.com/c/f...
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane....
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenw...
The Finns developed several difference scopes rifles in the 1930s, but none were made in large quantities, and they were not really much used during the Winter War or Continuation War. The first post-war consideration was given to a new model in 1954, but that led instead to a decision to make a competition version of the M28 rifle using nice diopter sights; the M28/57. These were later modified by cutting down their stocks to be better biathlon rifles...up until international biathlon moved form full power cartridges to .22 rimfire.
In the mid 1960s, Valmet's planned semiauto 7.62x54R sniper rifle on the AK platform failed - it was far too inaccurate. Left in a bit of a lurch, the Army took the M28/57 setup and applied it to the M27 Army rifles, and the resulting M27/66 was an interim sniper rifle, as well as being the standard Army rifle for formal marksmanship competitions. These were supplemented by the old M28/57 rifles, which were rebuilt with new stocks as the M28/76 - which is what we are looking at today. Ultimately, these were all replaced by the TKIV-85 proper sniper's rifle in the 1980s.
Most M28/76 rifles were made with just diopter sights; only a small number were given scope bases as well. In addition, about 10% were made with left-handed stocks, and I am very lucky to have found an example with both of those features!
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Let me just appreciate the M91 cucumber salad outfit. Also, your open chest pockets will probably get you chewed on by the first Finnish NCO that sees you
I only noticed them from your comment and now I can't keep my eyes off of them.
It just feels so... wrong.
The word you're looking for is relish.
Gona
I believe that is a Hellepuku M01
Now I'm just imagining a particularly angry Finnish Sergeant hanging off Ian's sleeve-teeth bared, frothing at the mouth and growling
If anyway possible, I'd love to see Ian take a look at the TKIV 85, the still serving sniper Mosin of the Finnish Army.
At the start he says this is “not quite the final” sniper mosin. So I’d bet good money he’s either already filmed the newer rifle or he has plans to
I don't have it filmed yet, but it's on the list. :)
From what I've heard, TKiv 85 should be going to war reserves and province companies with SVD soon, as the new Sako rifles come to service. TRG M10's for bolt action sniping and M23 for DMR.
The 85 is a lovely rifle especially taking into account its humble ancestry, and especially with D166 bullets.
@@ForgottenWeapons I'd like too see that video for one simple reason; Ian trying to say "tarkkuuskivääri". I mean he chickened out on "rynnäkkökivääri" while doing the RK62 videa so....
I wonder how much a much rarer left handed and factory scoped variant of an already rare finnish sniper rifle set Ian back...
Low 5 figures at least. I don't see a big following for these as they don't have a history of combat use but the rarity alone should put it up there.
This is the guy the PU Mosin's girlfriend tells him not to worry about
Has anyone done as much with Mosin Nagants as the Finns???? The Russians MAY have... but i haven't seen it!!
Ians fascination with Finland and Finnish guns warms my cold Finnish heart
To keep your heart warm may I suggest some time in a smoke sauna?
America loves Finnish guns 👏🏻
Sama
Simo would be proud.
How could you not be? Some crazy stuff, I mean, look at THIS thing.
Left-handed example with a scope-mount west of the Atlantic, not a unicorn but probably the equivalent of a northern-european moose with a form-fitted saddle =)
Ok, who has leaked the info about the top secret nordic moose cavalry?
Back in the 80s when I was competing in biathlon, I replaced the stock on my Anchutz 1427 with a Finish Laukennen stock that I got from one of the US team coaches that looked just like what you’ve got there. It was functional and beautiful, a big step up from the factory stock it replaced and a thing of beauty. Wish I still had that rifle. By the way, the aluminum rail on the left side of the forend is to attach a carrying harness so the rifle can be carried flat across the back and vertical when skiing.
Thanks for showing this piece.
Nice to see Ian rocking the Finnish drip
With a very rare "duck" cap to boot.
I have the Finn M-39 rifle, one of the first milsurps I ever bought. Looks very nice, but the bore is badly pitted, as I didn't really know what to look for way back then. I call her my "Prom Queen with bad teeth". 😆
One of these was recently featured on "Hot gat or fudd crap" article on TFB. Sadly none of the writers there recognized the rifle as an official conversion and thought it was a well done Elbonian rifle.
Wow, the folks at TFB don't actually know that much about old guns?
Colour me surprised!
Seriously though, all it takes is a Google search.
The "tacticool" folks don't hold the moist nuggets in very high regard
@@sniperfreak223 most nuggets are garbage rods
Finnish ones is another story altogether
especially ones that are converted by them to legit target rifles.
@@CKshouta you are aware that the Finnish Mosins are all just rebuilt "garbage" Mosins?
I love how modifiable the old Mosin's are.
Yeah, bubba does too.
Oh Bubba, no!
@@spookyindeed you brag about ownin a Glock, don't you?
@@manicmechanic448 Bragging about owning a Glock is infinitely more acceptable than butchering a mosin nagant with Promag parts. Neither are good mind you, but if I were a home invader, I'd consider a bubba with a mosin that should be put down an easier target.
@@coolsenjoyer except the finns had a good sense of quality control, fudds who fit a mosin into an archangel stock do not.
7:56 Firma Karl Krähling Optik in Wetzlar, Germany
MSW-Wetzlar: M. Hensoldt & Söhne Optische Werkstätte Wetzlar
The boys at 9hole reviews gotta run this thing!!! Very nice weapon. Love the left hand fire right hand bolt. Always wanted a lefty for my collection. Like the opposing hand bolt operation idea. Trigger hand stays put. On further thought neither of them are leftys so.... bummer. You da man Ian. Thanks
Well goes to show the phrase 'you can't polish a turd' has never met a determined Finn!
Simo Häyhä wouldnt call the M28-30 a turd
Glad to hear that as a finn myself, but i wouldn't say that mosin nagant is "turd", if you have ever heard of 6,5mm caliber carcano rifles.
they're called terni rifles because a company: terni imported them in finland, only for us to complain how shitty the carcanos were, the caliber is inadequate for our environment and stopping power is almost non existent of you hit anywhere but the red commie bastard's "cabbage" (brains)
@@Jake_Hamlin He wasn't from 1976 when this rifle was introduced ... technology had moved on.
It's not the rifle pattern that is bad in russian mosins apparently , it's fetal alcohol syndrome machinists.
@@nerome619 simo passed away if i remember correctly in 2002. But who knows if he even held or seen this model. But for sure he was definitely around the same time this model was created. And yes i know the model he used was the Model 28-30
Great Video, Ian. This rifle reminds me of the East German SSG-82 Police Sniper rifle, on steroids!
I just got back from a trip to Helsinki a couple of days ago and saw this in a military museum. Awesome!
Ah, another rifle I need. Why does Ian do this to me? Why do I do this to myself?😢😂
I did a few of Homeland Defence Organizations sniper courses in the early 2000s...We got issued both these and the M85 variant. 28/76 is lighter of these two, and dragging it in a ditch all ghillied up was far nicer. The bipod was a rather clunky affair but the rifles were easily capable of hitting targets at 500 meters, which was the maximum distance we could use at the Coastal Brigade's range.
- Hey Stalin, wanna hear a joke?
- Da, Simo.
- Helsinki.
- I don’t get it…
- And you’ll never will… 😎
- мудак!!
So cool, I own one of these and it is a truly amazing piece. Mine came with the name tag of the last person to use it in competition. Silky smooth and ultra light trigger. The double ghost ring sights are super super cool.
My father had an old m/28-30 modified for biathlon use back in late 50's early 60's. He ordered a barrel and biathlon stock (and biathlon harness) from Sako and had it put together (by Sako or armory). The stock was different type, i.e. not the same as the one Ian shows here. My dad used it till the .22LR rifles took over in military biathlon competitions too.
"Sporterizing" done so right it becomes a sniper/competition rifle. I'll allow it.
13:18 I love the sentiment Ian, and i do get the joke (i actually smiled to myself), however i do feel the need to inform the 99.99 percent of viewers not from here that even the northern parts of Finland, Sweden and Norway (well, northern Norway not as much being right next to the north sea and across the 'scandinavian mountains' mountain range from Sweden) do get to 95-100+ degrees F for an admittedly small part of the year.
Long story short, it gets actually hot up here in the sub-arctic (way north of where Ian usually goes in Finland) for at least a short period each summer. Funnily enough, that's usually around the same period when the sun doesn't set at night (or only partially sets as it is here where i live), whodathunkit?
100 degrees F in the shade is rare, i admit, but it does happen. A nice summer does have a good few days with 75-85 degrees F in the shade and a couple-three-five days (24 hour days) when it never gets below 68 degrees F.
LOTS and LOTS of mosquitoes though, oh lawd the mosquitoes.
The above post may or may not have been crafted under the influence of ethanol in the blood. Who knows?
A Company of British troops went a few years ago to a military exercise in Finnish Lapland unprepared. A few days later most of them were considered casualties in the exercise as the Mosquitoes almost ate them alive.
very cool! I have a frankenstein built which has 27-66 stock, TKIV-85 bedding block, Maxim barrel and a Timney trigger :D
that stock looks so nice
Hey ian would you be able to discuss Finnish ammunition?
I think it's sort of a forgotten thing about Finnish use and adoption of small arms
I'm from Lapua so I'd love to see Ian talking about Finnish ammo, since that's the only thing my home town is known for other than commie busting in the 30's. During my military service it was heart warming to see that ammo was always marked Lapua :D
@@Schaumanner im familiar with Lapua with the racetrack as it is one that allows some noise. I would argue that at least half if not more bensalenkkarit in drifting scene would know Lapua.
that stock is beautiful
Do a collab with nine hole reviews and have him cook you up some good ammo for it I bet you this rifle be she should be able to shoot bughole groups then
D166 bullet and it's a tack driver out to 1000m.
Your reality shooting episodes are quite amusing. Combine forgetfulness with Murphy's law and you have a hit RUclips channel! lol
wonder if this is related to the later 7.62 TKIV 85
Essentially same guys behind that project
I have one and she is in the safe lol. Never use her. One of the few rifles NYC let me buy. I brought it from another state and transfer it to NYC lol. Now its in Tx and still not used :).
5:30
Very nicely pronounced "Asevarikko", Ian is becoming fluent in finnish
Speaking of biathlon rifles, it's always fascinating to see ease with which it cycled. Is this specific design, or just high-quality manufature?
Just wonderful to see how it shoot as well as the usual technical stuff. Another great video about a great gun and a lefty one at that for Ian!
Taskut! Lepo! Taskut - kiinni!
:D
... points for Ian for wearing the M/91 (summer version) on the video
(The summer version was basically issued only to those on duty outside Finland, id est UN peacekeeping missions et cetera.)
Oh dang! On the range, he has sorsalakki (the duck cap), a soft cap originally used with the M/62 cammies! :)
(The camo pattern is the same, with M/91 the colors were standardized; earlier M/62 had wild variety of shades as fabric printing colors shifted easily)
Finnish M62 Camouflage Effectiveness: ruclips.net/video/zm7g1wsdIyw/видео.html
That so familiar BDU... I used that during my first tour in BiH.😀 Good memories.
But my god does that cap suck
@@petrimakela5978 Suck? You must have had wrong size or your hair was too long - as I remember, it was one of the better liked items (and as such, one of the items that was most frequently reported ”lost”)
Reminds me of the ssg82
Isn't this the rifle that featured recently on The Firearm Blog's Hot Gat or Fud Crap feature?
CKshouta
24 minutes ago
One of these was recently featured on "Hot gat or fudd crap" article on TFB. Sadly none of the writers there recognized the rifle as an official conversion and thought it was a well done Elbonian rifle.
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq I thought so. Thanks.
Love the lefty stock there!
there is also a dragoon/cavalry ww2 finland uniform, and ww2 raincoat standard infantry, very drippy stuff bro
I can just imagine touching that trigger before you get it snugged in tight...😬
you really need 4K with all these amassing firearms you are showing. Especially with all the great content that you are making.
Looks like the Diana break barrel pellet rifle I had as a kid 😂
No more so than any other precision rifle of the period.
I had an M28/76 without the scope mount. It was chambered in 7.62X53R so I couldnt run surplus and factory ammo was expensive so I sold it. I regret that decision now. I still have a beautiful M39 with a plum color barrel that I love.
Thank you for all of your hard work. Are Finnish mosans affordable?
Well not anymore. I had gotten most of mine 5 years ago or so for anywhere from 450 to 500. Now an M28/30 is pushing $1,000 and an M39 is 800.
I made a 22 cal. copy from 28/57 when I was serving in 1972-3 just to make something to use for my sparetime and I was amassed how steady 28/57 was when standing. Durin that period one H. Ikola was making a 22 rim. prototype for him self. So some way I came close to Finnish rifle devepment. I still have this 22 cal. "Reikäkivääri" a so called Hole rifle because it has a hole in the stock where the thump goes tru.
My dad worked at Asevarikko1 from around 1969-2005ish and he was a carpenter who made the stocks to this rifle and the tkiv 85 with his work buddies😎 Need to show the video to my dad. Fun fact my grandpa worked in Asevarikko1 before and during the winter/continuation war and after it
Ian has m/62 ”Duck” cap (camo ) hat❤
Enlisted men insignia.
M/91 style jacket
I'm curious the range for full power biathlon. The safety logistics must have been much more daunting.
I'm cammo with envy, perkele!
I find Finnish mosins are extremely interesting. Nice camo by the way
Ian, can you do the G44(m) or the Gerat 07. I heard it was a simplified version of the Gewehr 43 made by Mauser towards the end of the war but was cancelled due to the Sturmgewehr program of 44-45.
Out of curiosity, did you check your casings after firing? I've had 3 of these (still have one), and the 2 from ASeV were showing over pressure signs, indicating they were 7.62x53mm with .308 bores. The Sako one had a war-dated barrel and had no provision for a scope mount. There was a company in California making newly-machined mounts to fit that base...not sure if they're still in business.
At any rate...just curious if yours showed signs of excessive pressure or if you'd slugged your barrel.
Great question. I understand they typically like the D166 bullets but to be certain, the chamber should be cast to determine bore diameter and chamber size.
I found my MWG scope and original mount from an individual in Finland. The tough thing to find was the green, belt worn, carrying case for the scope/mount combi. It took me awhile to find mine.
@@mikeearl4263 as much as I would've loved the proper military correct accessories, the one 28/76 remaining had her stock durakoted black by a former owner, so I decided to make her a utility rifle while retaining what remains of her originality. The mount can be removed, so the only non-correct part of the rifle is the color. I'm afraid to attempt any stripping chemicals, and sanding is definitely out. I wish RUclips would allow the posting of pics in comments.
Phew I gotta ask, that Finnish military surplus camo uniform hot in the Arizona heat? (Just got to the end he mentions he's definitely hot in that lol.)
I used to shoot TAK quite a bit, durin my service, together with TRG.
simo hayha approves
Finland used to absolutely dominate biathlon competitions with these.
7:02 "And this one on mine..." This is Ian's rifle. There are few like it, but this one is Ian's.
I got to shoot with that during my service and won all the artillery officers who was shooting with me. Some of them even claimed that someone had shot to my target since they had a hard time believing that a navy medic could beat them in shooting.
What did you do with all the arty officers?
@@randymagnum143 coastal artillery was a thing back then.
@@anttieskelinen1 I was being an ass and making a joke about your English, even knowing it's not your first language.
You said you "won all the artillery officers" and not "won against all the artillery officers"
If you still have those officers in your possession, please disregard my poor attempt at a joke.
LOL ... I had the same thing when i was in the forces ... you shoot well and people say the people next to you are shooting at your target ...as if that would be better
@@anttieskelinen1 So, it was Upinniemi then?😀 I served there from 1992 to 2000. First at coastal artillery (to June 1996). After that Navy to October 2000.
Onko tehty juttua amerikkalaisista l maailman sodan amerikan avusta joita jäi tänne kuten Colt Goverment, Coltin perunakuokka kk oliko m95 ryssän winsu ja muut lll linjan kiväärit remington..
The rifle reminds me of my HW 80 from my youth and that is not meant disrespectfully at all. It seems to me that the first shot has released very surprisingly : ).... I like the rifle!
I greatly enjoy your pronunciation of Kuopio at 5:10
PPU all the way!
I've always mounted my sling to my handstop on the bottom rail in British target shooting at Bisley. Is Finnish shooting different? How do they use their slings?
I would imagine that they employed the side rail for a biathlon-style backpack sling that allows you to much more securely sling the rifle for skiing.
Edit: grammar correction
Yep, the side mount is for biathlon harness
( Winter ) Sauna shooting in Finish Brutality !!!!!!!!! shooting in 90c From sauna
These rifles are pretty accurate. I have M28-57 but it is equipped with M27 stock.
Mosins aren't bad shooters anyway. The surplus ammo sock. Reload with good bullets and powder and they shout pretty well.
You Finnish?
I haven't even started..
Please make the next book about finnish ww2 weapons! Would be an immediate buy.
🤙🏽
Does Henry know you have a new toy?
Another variation of the garbage rod
I'm against sporterizing old firearms but if someone would make it that well he's excused.
Agreed! Though this is one of the rare cases where it's actually part of the provenance.
I guess we can kind of excuse that because when that sportering was happening those
rifles were still in service.
So for those it was just upgrade pack to keep them somehow relevant in rapidly developing world.
@@Kesssuli It's also easy to overlook when they were being sold by the barrels for next to nothing.
ALSO, I've seen photos of sporterized '03 Springfields from the '30s that were works of art!
Och, how many millions of Mosin-Nagants are supposed to remain pure and untouched for posterity?
Beautiful rifle.
I've always wanted one of those.
That rifle just looks like fun to shoot.
any expert knows the MSW scope? I got a 4*36 with serial number 49868. please enlighten me which year of production was.
The stock is interesting. Not as sweet as the SAKO .308 heavy barrel I used to have. Very good accuracy with Sierra 168 gr. HPBT.
Does anyone remember the video when Ian tells the lady enthusiastically the anecdote about Mosin's bolt and the rock?
I don't have a Finnish target/sniper rifle, but i have several from Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Cool rifles for sure, especially the ones that were built into essentially civilian marksmanship rifles from rifles captured at the end of WWII. One that I have is a Danish Schultz and Larsen built on a VZ 24 action. A bunch of them came into Canada over the last 10 years or so from Sweden and Denmark.
Finland had like 27-30 pieces of sniper rifle scopes 30.11.1939 when USSR attacked and WW2 started for Finnish part. Thus just for evaluations/development, basically. With around 2x to 4x fixed magnification.
(Interestingly also only 27-30 tanks. Old tanks for training infantry for how to work with and against tanks. Only some of them had cannon, rest with machine guns.)
I shot with this and the TAK-85 as well as the SVD during my service in the sniper/dmr training. My personal rifle being the 85 with a Zeiss 2-7x42 scope with a finer duplex reticle. The 85 is more adjustable incl.trigger angle and pull settings.
As I recall(might be wrong) that these 76's were .308-bore built to shoot the .308-caliber D46 target bullet. A 185gr fmjbt "Häyhä" bullet. The 85 was a .310-bore built for the .310-caliber 200gr D166 "war-bullet". So we had to pay attention which rounds were used in different rifles. But there was only a couple of 76's in use in our unit back in the mid 90's.
Shooting .311-caliber like I'd assume this S&B 182gr stuff is, I wouldn't expect very impressive results in precision but more like impressive recoil and pressure marks in the primers as well as extensive coppering in the barrel.
These rifles may be old but it is the superbly made barrels, head spacing, triggers, the Proper ammunition(not Russki surplus iron-stuff) And the shooter that hits his mark that kills not how 'modern' any particular weapon is.. A 185gr-200gr fmjbt with a high SD and BC with an impact velocity of 2000fps out in the distance will harvest meat with always two holes in the opponent. The entrance and the exit. No difference in physical practice to a modern .308 "sniper rifle".
I remember reading an article (probably in the old Dutch AK56 magazine) in the early 00's about a sniper competition in Finland and I clearly recall them mentioning "custom-built Mosin action platforms." I get the feeling this is what the author was referring to when he was observing the proceedings.
9 hole review has to try that!
Tuli tuotakin varusmiehenä aikoinaan kannettua
When those stock came to finnsih army surplus stores, most were left hand. Never saw a right hand stock in the surplus store.
I have a great regret not bidding one one of these probably 12 years ago at a local auction. It had the scope base but didn't have the scope and didn't have a bipod on it. It went for like $650 and I missed out.
I just competed last week at the USA Shooting 300 meter National Rifle Championship in Elk River, MN using a Finnish made Tikka T3X. It can get the job done just as well as the Swiss made Grunig and Bleiker 300 meter rifles. The Finns make great rifles.
The bolt throw also looks a LOT smoother than the one on my M91/30. Also on mine, the sights were so off to the side from the factory, that they had to be drifted so far out that they look like they are about to fall of the front dovetail!
Ashamed to admit this but... I got a call from a friend who ran a gunshop. He knew I liked Milsurp rifles but mostly the odd ones or bubba modified ones. He told me he had a bubba Mosin and he sold it to me for $250. It was one of these in right hand. It was missing the diopter sights and scope but had the mount. I put on a scope from my parts bin and shot it in. I liked it but the stock looked horrible, and I ended up selling it in a deal later on. He and I both thought it was just some bubba modified milsurp.
Hey Ian please to something on the McDonnell Douglas Scorpion Urban Fighting Weapon & Defense Industries Organization Nader Grenade Launcher under barrel LAW Rocket & a under barrel RPG
Nice gun and nice outfit!
My buddy has one of these with a pretty close serial number to yours. Unfortunately if I remember correctly the scope mount was bent in shipping so he's stuck shooting with the diopter sights. It's a neat rifle for sure.
History and shooting in one video. What a treat.
2/97 and I have a love/hate relationship with this rifle. Conscripts think it funny to always mess up the sights for the next guy and one day I got the "nakki" job to zero the diopters of 6 of these. They were the most messed up and I couldn't even hit the frames with some of them at first. Of course alone with no spotter. I walked back and forth that range like 20 km that day and my shoulder was blue for hundred+ rounds fired. This rifle has a bit of a kick to it. It's a good rifle though, nice trigger and you can hit bullseyes with the diopter at 300m range with ease once it's zeroed in... Looking back at it being sore all over was small price for having the range all day alone with this thing.
Ian, can you share some of your historical sources? I am looking for historical documentation to identify this rifle variant as being a sniper rifle for the FDF, so I can convince the US Civilian Marksmanship Program to allow their use in the vintage sniper rifle matches. Thanks & keep up the great work!
Got a M27, 28, M29 and M39 that I purchased from gun shows over 30 years ago. Always intended to convert the M28 into a 600yd target rifle but that did not happen. Never shot them :( Need to sell them before the gov confiscates them after my demise.
if that rifle could talk it'd be confusedly screaming "where the F&$K are we?! the surface of the F&$king sun?!"
I have one of those stocks. But just the stock. Previous owner broke it at the pistol grip, and "repaired" it. I've been planning on fixing it correctly, but I don't have a spare moist nugget to modify.
Finland to Ian: Dear Sir, Our match sniper rifles were designed to be used in cold weather and snow. They were not designed for any use above 45F.....
Love this video. I bought one of these from centerfire systems and my buddy bought 2 . Mine didn’t have the scope mount just the target sights my buddies one had the mount no scope and the other the target sights.. I will have to look but I believe mine barrel was replaced? And it is marked m28/77 ? I have to look it’s been in the case for long time