Finnish Mosin Nagant Overview (M91/24, M27, M28, M28/30, M39)
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Finland found itself with nearly 200,000 Mosin Nagant rifles in its possession after breaking away from Russian rule in 1917, and those rifles would for the basis of Finnish infantry arms until the adopted of a semiautomatic rifle many decades later.
At first, Russian rifles were simply refurbished and rebarreled, but the Army and Civil Guard quickly found the Russian Model 1891 pattern wanting, and began to develop improvements. The two organizations managed their arm production independently, and the Army was the first to develop a new model of Mosin, in the M27. Produced from 1927 until 1940, this was a shortened (27”/68.5cm barrel) with improved furniture and sights. The Civil Guard followed shortly afterwards with their M28 short rifle. The M28 would only be produced until 1933, however, when it was replaced with the Civil Guard M28/30, which further improved the sights.
Ultimately, the Army and Civil Guard would come together to design the apogee of Mosin Nagant evolution, the M39. Over 100,000 of these rifles would be made, all starting from captured or purchased receivers - the Finns never manufactured receivers themselves. If anything can be considered a transformation of a sow’s ear into a silk purse, it would be the creation of an M39 from a Russian M1891!
In this video, we will look at the features of each of these models…
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I think it would been fair to hear you trying to pronounce that suojeluskunta since I have been butchering almost every english word that I could imagine on my videos :D
Hydraulic Press Channel please never crush a Finnish Mosin :o
WELCOME TO HYDRAULIC PRESS CHANNEL
THE RUSSIANS CAN ATAK AT ANY TIEM. VE MUST DEAL VIT IT
Joey LaRose in italy he's actually a famous sniper, a lot of gun nuts people i know knew him
+Joey Larose I would say Simo is very liked figure here in Finland. I think most finns have high respect for all of our veterans, and Simo is maybe the most well known.
Hearing your accent is one of the best parts of your channel.
"It may AT-tack at any time."
"Man, I don't know if I want to watch a 37 minute video on Mosin-Nagants."
You can probably guess what I ended up doing.
You watched it twice?
Matthew VandenBerg you... Didn't watch it?
"Yeah, What is this supposed to be... a C&Rsenal Video?!"
You watched a 36:56 long video about mosins. big difference verry big.
You Finnish the video didn’t you?
Funnily enough, I serve in the Finnish Defence Force and we still use a variant of the Mosin as a sniper rifle. It does have a modernized stock and other modern features, but it's still basically a Mosin.
Simo is smiling in heaven
I imagine it's a point of national pride at this point.
See what amazes me about that is that, for all the bolt is a rugged and clever design, it does have a lot of places for dirt and grime to get in, to the extent that even in a sniper role I don't know why something more modern wouldn't be better.
I mean i think nearly anyone who has fired one knows how hard it can be to cam the bolt into battery when there's grime in the locking recesses
A Mosin was my first rifle, it's a Finnish, I still have it and I still love it.
@@georgeparkins777 That's why there IS something more modern, that's not only better, but the best. Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua Magnum, FDF designation: 8.6 TKIV 2000 (8.6mm Precision Rifle, MY2K). A rifle made for the calibre made for the rifle. The design of absolutely everything in the TRG platform is not only original Finnish design, but also made specifically for sniping. Even the bolt is, exceptionally even amongst sniper rifles, of a design superseding the Mauser action. Paired with a Zeiss Victory Diavari optic with custom-ordered FinnDot reticle, immeasurably tight sub-0.5 MOA groups out to the four digits aren't only distinctly possible, but boringly likely. The de-facto supermagnum round that the TRG-42 is loaded with has a strict one-shot policy not only with human targets, but with all large and dangerous game that can be found above the sea surface, earning it envy among civilian hunters as well.
Yet after all this, the TRG-42 is still the preferred sniper rifle for reliability in cold climates, being fielded by elite forces of all six northernmost nations in the world (yes, even Russia adopted this Finnish rifle), among the 30+ countries that have adopted the TRG platform. I am privileged to have even been allowed to work the bolt of this rifle.
So why are the Mosins (or more specifically, the TKIV 85 that viggo is refering to) still around? Because match-grade .338 isn't cheap. 7.62x53/54mmR is far cheaper and more numerous - even if it's brass-casing match-grade produced by Lapua - so it's more efficient to teach marksmanship with the Mosin.
Not only that, but at the time of the .338LM and TRG platform's development in 1984 through 1999, the Precision Rifle Model Year 1985 was brand new, was already replacing the m/39 in marksmanship applications, and was therefore not set to be replaced itself. The reason the FDF, Lapua, and Sako successfully worked together to make the premier sniper rifle known to the world, was because they meant and set out to do so, not to just replace an admittedly fine albeit cumbersome and (compared to say, Mauser actions) suboptimal Mosin.
As a matter of fact, no one even considered replacing the Finnish Mosins until 2020, when Sako announced a letter of intent to replace primarily the Dragunov SVD with a semiauto DMR, in which they merely implied replacement of the Mosins on the side with a potential "sniper" variant of a new rifle family. Has this even happened? Yes and no. The M10 variant of the TRG-42 had already been out for a couple of years at that time, so we can assume this isn't about a bigger .338 bolt action being shoehorned into regular infantry squad usage. There was a rifle project started two years later called K22 (Kokeilu 2022/Experiment 2022), with vague requirements that didn't even specify operating principle, that either lead nowhere, or somewhere no one knows. A year after that, however, Finland joined NATO, and began exploring the option of adopting the standard NATO rifle calibers of 5.56x45 and 7.62x51mm. This gave momentum to the Sako M23 project - the family of rifles meant to replace or complement the 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov-platform RKs, with possible roots in the K22 project. Though the 5.56 assault rifle version of the M23 has only been adopted by the Swedish military as the Ak 24 (automatic carbine 2024), the 7.62 NATO battle/designated marksman variants have been adopted in Finland.
The thing is, these semi-auto rifles, which are a marriage of the AR-10 and AR-18 systems, have not replaced the TKIV 85, and apparently, were never planned to do so entirely. Allegedly, only the SVDs are getting fully replaced, and the new rifles are just what they are called: battle rifles and DMRs. Even the 7.62 TKIV 23 is literally just a higher power scope variant of the "standard" 7.62 KIV 23 battle rifle. The Finnish purpose-built sniper rifle lineup remains unchanged. It's likely we'll see Mosins in active duty beyond the 100 year anniversary of the end of WW2 in Finland.
I'm a huge Finnophile and I purchased a Finnish M39 at a gun show a few years back. Hands down one of the best rifles I've ever shot and easily the best I've ever owned. Shockingly accurate for a rifle with a Nagant action and such an amazing trigger.
Have you shot a Fininnish capture? I have a 1898 built with a SA stamp but I'm pretty sure still has the russian barrel, (has the russian factory stamps and all those cyrillic letters) and it shoots straighter than I do, the only problem I have is the trigger creeps worse than Weinstein on a child actress, but its still literally the best firearm I own..... If it wasn't 54.5 inches in length I might consider it for hunting.
Finnophile sounds like someone who does very nasty things to fish
Do you not own alot of rifles?
@@darrengarcia4937 Not a lot of ones made after 1950
@@PokemonHaloFan ah then that makes sense. For sure these and K31s are probably some of the cream of the crop for older rifles that arent small batch.
As a proud native of the small nation of Finland, i thank you Gun Jesus (and the production crew ofcourse) for these awesome videos.
My father is 80y and has been hunting and shooting his entire life on a high level. He did his service in Sweden as a gun mechanic.
I keep showing him your videos and during this one he didn´t shut up!! :D
Being from Finland, seeing you praise the Finnish designs and improvements over and over again feels very satisfying :)
And also makes finns smile
Thank for another informative video. My M39 is the most accurate rifle in my collection of 20th century bolt action military rifles. At 200 yards with it's iron sights it outshot my Swedish Mauser by a few hair-breaths. Both rifles are at the top of my list. Owning and shooting my M39 made me study how Finnland survived Soviet enslavement unlike most other eastern European countries after WW2. Truly an amazing achievement in military tactics and diplomacy.
Curious because i want a m39 bad. Can you shoot regular 7.62x54r or do i have to find 7.62x53r?
I built a custom mosin... its beautiful but was a lot more money then I intended. My other one I swapped for a fin trigger soo smooth
Watch the video done by nine hole reviews on the Finnish M39.
I picked up an M39 earlier this year, I never expected I'd say a Mosin-Nagant put together from several rifles would be one of the best surplus rifles I own.
Fits well with Finlands 100th. birthday. Thanks for the video!
druisteen How about stopping harrassing people in the comments
Yay
Cheers to finland from russia.
You trully make the BEST GUNS ever!
+V3kkuG4m1ng 123 Of course :)
Actually we borrow your concepts and tweak them to a perfection ;)
Alan Shore
M16 was not ready when Finland tested for new rifle. AR-10 and even Danish Madsen LAR m/62 were tested but ultimately AK based Finnish m/58 was selected.
otto eduard Leopold von Bismarck Duke of launberg that test was garbage. using a no speced home build ak vs a top of the line bcm ar
I will be so happy if RIA gets its hands on RK95TP and test it. I mean the military version.
Another excellent video as always. About 15 years ago I bought a 1943 Tikka marked M91 with a receiver date of 1898 for $75 from a guy who thought it was just a garden variety Mosin. I still have it today and it is my favorite of all my Mosin pattern rifles.
You should definitely try to pronounce all the Finnish, we love hearing foreigners try.
Just like the foreigners love it when we speak English? :,D
That seems like it would be an endless font of amusement, perhaps leavened with a little bit of pain at the really terrible flubs.
LOL I bet you do shake hands so i can make myself look like a bumbling idiot right?
Appinti ääs of Timo
ruclips.net/video/wqQhQSbe6fw/видео.html
epic
I've been waiting for a long time for Ian to do a video on these. As a Finn my self I'm very proud that my country managed to produce a rifle as good as these old girls. Thank you so much.
So the Russian Mosins were unFinnished? No wonder they did so badly in Finland.
xD
Well, technically, the Soviets were using the 91/30 version, which is superior to the laughable M39 in every way possible.
Except for the trigger, consistency, accuracy with bayonet, but these are just peanuts.
jajajajajajajaja
Pekka Rastas so true. The absurd number of dead frozen on the battlefield was proof of the disaster the Russian leadership had launched itself into.
+Goks can you read?
Ah, the long and proud Finnish heritage of taking a Russian gun and improving it.
didn't really fix the Mosin action did they lol?
Gungeek they did, The bolt isn't stiff and doesn't jam, which is a notorious flaw in the russian rifles lol
well duh the Fins fitted the bolts to the actions :/ the Fins were working with lots of different bolt parts so they had to do some fitting. Most Russian refurb rifles were done very poorly and the bolt are hard to work. True matching Russian Mosin bolts work just fine. :)
hell yeah
@Oleg Bauer Those are called "quality of life improvements" in other sectors, and individually might not seem like much, but when combined and used in warfare actually do make a lot of difference. You'd think that having a sling that doesn't break would make the gun a bit easier to carry in combat, for example.
Thanks Ian, a very nice vid. As an interesting fact, some receivers from Mosin-Nagants like these apparently went on living as part of the Finnish army M/85 sniper rifles in use since 80s, a design also ultimately based on that rifle family.
I bought my m28-30 today. Serial number 72838. It's pretty close to the gun shown in this video. Thank you for very informative channel!
Thank you so much Ian for covering our military history. Really appreciate it!
Pronounced SAKO correctly at 28 minutes......this dude REALLY knows his stuff. Well done - much enjoyed and learned a lot!
Great video Ian, I have never heard the changes explained and illustrated so clearly
I picked up a P-26 that was built off an Izhevsk M91 built in 1895-- and it has sent me down a rabbit hole of research into the early methods of Finnish improvements to the Mosin. Hearing the stories about Simo Häyhä and how you've talked about them was what set me to buying it from a local shop. Thank you so much.
"You can't make 100 different versions out of the same rifle. "
Finland: Hold my beer!
more like,hold my mämmi
Hold my perkele
Hold my salmiakki
Hold my moonshine!
Then, many years later, Glock did it with their only firearm, a handgun.
I've always wanted to sort out the differences between the variants of Finnish mosins, and this video goes over them perfectly. This is the sort of content that makes me especially glad to be a Patreon supporter; not only is it interesting but it's also useful reference material that I can use in eventually purchasing one of these.
The Finnish war experience during WWII is a very unique and interesting history and I very much appreciate this vignette into that history by way of the iconic Finnish Mosins. Thanks!
In finland part of them were called pystykorva
Been tying toi identify my three Finland Mosians and this presentation answered all of my questions. Many thanks for an incredible presentation. For Identification of Finnish Mosians, well worth the time spent in total review.
Ian, the D-stamp has nothing to do with the captured Soviet ammo.
The D-stamp denotes that the throat has been reamed and enlarged for the D-166 ball i.e. the standard service ammo of the Finnish Army that entered service in 1936. The D-166 had large ogive thus it needed larger throat than the earlier S-ball.
The m/39 was designed around the D166-ball thus it was capable to shoot the D-166 from the beginning. Older models like m/27, m/28, m/28-30 were the re-reamed (most of the m/28s and m/28-30s only after the war) for the D-166 and stamped with the D. This was done on wartime m/91s and on some m/39s too, even though those barrels were made for the D-166 in a first place.
So lets say that one had a M27 or 28 that did NOT have the 'D' stamp on it; and was never under the ownership of the Finnish army. So this barrel would not have been re-chambered to accept the D-166 ball ammo. What modern ammo would be acceptable to shoot in it?
Conagher I’d assume it would be 7.62x54r
@@mhaugen692 isn't most of the modern 7.62x54R ammo to the D-166 'spec'? I am asking out of ignorance on this ammo, and a genuine desire to learn.
I evidently have a not-so-common Mosin configuration and while I really want to shoot this rifle, I certainly do not want to damage it by shooting improper ammo.
@@conagher914 Sorry by being late, but the modern ammo you need is 7.62x53r.
I have a recently acquired a 1937 Sako M28/30, no D on the barrel shank, but it is SA marked. Is it safe to shoot 7.62x54R? I don't reload & I have never seen 7.62x53R ammo. I have slugged the barrel & it measured .308, and I've measured all the 7.62x54R ammo I have surplus & modern, & it measures .308 on the projectile at the edge of the case mouth.
As a Finnish-American, I’m gratified that you spend time on the arsenal of “our” small country. Thanks.
As Finn happy too see more Finnish content : D Hopefully one day you show off Suomi KP-31! ;P
why nod :DDDDD
Suomi is of ebin :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@Niko wahd :DDDDDD?
@Niko whats a jonne?
Thanks!
This is awesome. I actually own a Finnish capture mosin, so seeing one of these with all of your info and knowledge, is really cool. Great video Ian.
I really love the idea of the ultimate, improved version of classic weapons like the Mosin Nagant, so this video was just, so cool!
Hey Ian, keep up the good work!
Fun fact: The Finnish defence forces still use a Mosin Nagant- based rifle as a sniper rifle. It's called the Tkiv 85 (Tarkkuuskivääri 85). Although heavily modified, some of the receivers and other parts date back to the 1890's Russian Mosin Nagants. Some of the oldest receivers still have the original Russian markings on them. More info on that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_Tkiv_85
I was trained to use the Tkiv 85 rifle (as well as the more modern Sako TRG 42, which I found infinitely better to work with) during my military service in 2014. The 'best' feature of the Tkiv 85 was, that after firing about 5 consecutive rounds, the bipod would usually detatch itself from the weapon and drop the barrel into the ground. Maintaining the rifle was also a real joy (not).
Greetings from Finland!
As a finn and a fan of your vids it warms my heart to see these vids of our guns. Thank you and keep up the good work!
Finns. The country that make Russian guns into guns they should have been from start.
way better than american mass production guns
I can pretty much imagine how your ancestors didn't see that their arsenal would be replaced by a nearly identical AK clone in the near future. The irony is strong.
well said
The difference is that the parts are interchangeable and that the full-auto is more manageable compared to the original ak-47. If only the 7.62x39mm round wasn't obsolete against the Russian 5.45x39mm round.
@@nakedguyholdingakalashniko1872 rk is just better version of ak. When i served in finnish military i had rk-62 and later rk-62m. I also fired a lot with rk-95. The old 62 wasnt that good but 62m and 95 were fucking great guns. Disassembly took less than 5 seconds and the guns were really easy to clean. Also they were extreamly reliable (during a whole year i had 0 misfires) and accurate (with acog you could easily hit 5cm in diameter target from 300m away with 10 shots in a row). Only problem in my opinion with rk is its weight. With empty magazine it weights something like 3kg and magazines with 30 rounds weight 900g each
Awesome and decently thorough intro to Finnish Mosins - love it.
If this is a general overview....outstanding. Thank you.
Love me my Mosins ! Wonderful history. Thanks, Ian, as always !
Ian thank you so much for this. Been waiting for a video like this for a long long time
I bought a 91/30 years ago from a guy who did not know what he had, was dated 1939. I knew right off what it was because it had a "Sako" capture stamp and that's the reason I wanted it. The one I had did not have any of the upgraded Finish parts, like the sling rings, It just appeared to be captured Russian 91/30 that had been stamped with the "SA" marks.
Finally a finnish mosin review! Looking forward to Suomi machine pistol :)
I’m 15 years old and I own a m27 Finnish nagant made in 1932. I actually like it a lot. I haven’t even shot it yet and I’m already in love with it.
yes, russian rifles is fail.
HELLO DIS IS IAN FRÖM FÖRGÖDDEN WEBÖNS :-------D
Nice
:DD
xDDD :DDD
This is so racist. Also hilarious.
Benis
What a good job Ian. You can't get deeper than that
Also the reason for the changed sling-attachment, is that generally the Russian style Sling was perfectly functional on foot, but by fitting a metal-loop you could make sure that the rifle stayed comfortably against your back when it was tossed over shoulder, while Finnish military employed alot of ski-troops during the Winter War.
I have a Finnish m27 1942 it's a shame I don't have the original stock for it. Got really cheap it just bearly fit in the 91/30 stock ... I'm just glad Ivan you were here to inform me on a little bit more about the rifle that I had non known nothing about in history. Thank you 😊
Many newborn Finnish baby boys will be named Ian, thanks to this video.
The name law of 1991 might have something to say about that.
Lauri3000 Ian not allowed?
wtf thats odd so if i was a finn i couldnt call my child lord bobble spunk the 3rd thats not fair
Either thanks to this video or iDubbbz.
@@weirdscience8341 Well, you could _call_ him/her that, you just can't make it his/her official name
Excellent video. I just purchased my first M28 recently to go with my Hayha Plaque, which has one of the spent casings found in the early 2000s at one of Hayha's firing positions when members of the Finnish sniping community went to interview Hayha, and were asking him specific questions about the battle of Kollaa. He said, "Why don't we get in the car and go there and I'll show you?"
When they walked to one of his positions, dudes started kicking around in the grass, and found lots of spent cases. "I guess those are mine." He had been allowed the rare opportunity to work autonomously by his Company Commander, who was a veteran of the French Foreign Legion after being kicked out of one of the Finnish Officer's Training Academies.
We find that the extreme cold conditions of Finland and the region are great at preserving war material even dating back to the 1930s. Buddies of mine have found Russian and German soldiers, complete with kit, in frozen graves that thaw out in the few months of summer. One particular site outside of Sainkt Petersburg was a treasure trove of German paratroopers and their FG-42s.
Mine is a M28/30, not M28.
when you live with a rifle the most used part is the sling swivel so its really important to get right
I like . . . .i like . . . The best . . . . . .
I like . . . .I like . . .the best . . . . .
Even though you left out a lot of info (according to you) this is still the most comprehensive M39 video on RUclips i have found.
Ian, Thanks for another informative video. I'm amazed at the quantity of information and the level of historical and mechanical detail you provide in all of your videos. Can you give us some idea of how you do your research and prepare for each presentation?
This is an awesome video. So informative. It answered a ton of questions I had on my Finnish Mosin.
Just saw the 9-Hole Reviews treatment of an M39. Damn, that was impressive. This is a serious rifle.
Didn't know a video could be this informative.
I have one of the M28/30s along with a correct Fiskars made bayonet. It is a pretty decent old war horse and I am honored to have custody of it.
Thanks for the video Ian, it was very informative even to a finn such as me and answered a life long question I've had ever since I watched the movie Talvisota (winter war). In the movie there were 2 scenes that I still remember, first one is where a finnish soldier manages to get his rifles bolt jammed and if I remember correctly, ends up dying because he didn't manage to cycle a round. The other one was a scene were a finn tells his buddies to take the bolts from dead russians rifles saying "take the bolts, they are loose so they don't mind sand". I knew that both rifles were almost identical even then so I always wondered what made the finnish one so "bad" that the bolt would jam or that our soldiers would rather scavenge russian mosin bolts to use on their own rifles. The part about the M27's "improved" bolt answered both question. My life is now complete.
not sure how the the M27 bolt with wings on it stops the bolt from jamming? can you tell me? and from what i understand the tight Fin bolts was because of the mixed parts they built the guns with, and some were not fitted the best. :)
the wings on M27 were supposed to decrease the change of not properly cycling a round I think (Ian explains this on the video), but it also made it possible to jam the bolt if ice, sand or dirt got in to the small little grooves/lines that were made on the gun to fit the wings in to. This is what happened in the movie, the soldier was unable to close the bolt because the wing grooves were filled with sand, ice and other crap and got shot. This is the reason finns who were assigned the M27 took bolts from russian mosins because you couldn't use the winged m27 bolt on a regular mosin because of the wings, but you could use a regular mosing bolt on an M27 and eliminate the chance of jamming the bolt and being unable to chamber a round.
"the wings on M27 were supposed to decrease the change of not properly cycling a round I think (Ian explains this on the video)" yeah that makes no sense... ;) *****
Ian must be one of the few none-Finnish people who actually knows about the civil war. Also interesting fact: The legendary sniper Simo Häyhä used an M/28. If only Ian could get his hand on KP/31 or Lahti L-35.
nothing, nothing and nothing Actually, many of us Finnophiles are familiar with your country's history and find it fascinating. I own at least one example of each of these rifles except the M24, which is not truly represented here. It should have had Civil Guard markings.
I see. I more specifucally meant thatalmost everyone knows even little about Finnish history knows about the winter war but 99% of them don't know about the civil war.Glad to hear our history and weapons fascinates you.
nothing, nothing and nothing well, Häyhä actually used and early m/28-30. Not an m/28.
Bug The M28 vs M28/30 is a much disputed issue, due in large part the nomenclature. From what I've read, there was no official M28/30 variant, just an upgrade to the M28 which occurred in the early 30s. Also, most of Simo's kills were affected using the M31 Suomi submachine gun. There was no official sniper corps in Finland at that time, and while he was certainly a master woodsman - a key skill for any true sniper, he was not a dedicated sniper. In point of fact, he declined the use of a telescopic sight, saying it increased his visibility on the battlefield.
nothing, nothing and nothing Yessir, there are 2 very good websites frequented by many of my fellow countrymen, as well as various fora. The websites - www.mosinnagant.net and www.7.62x54r.net - are both loaded with lots of useful information compiled by collectors, for collectors. The fora are many, one of the better ones being a subset on Gunboards.
Aww, no attempt to pronounce "Suojeluskunta"? You almost nailed "Tikkakoski".
Been waiting for these to be featured for a long time, thank you for the additional excellent history lesson, as usual. Finnish army is quite notorious for hoarding old equipment for as long as possible, just in case.
As a proud finnish, i thank you for this video!
I don't own a Mosin, but have several friends that do. To a man, they prefer the Finnish Mosan to any other production Mosin. That says volumes about the Finnish level of acceptance quality to me. Much respect for Finland's Native son Simo Häyhä, the White Death. The best Sniper of WW 2.
USSR: "This machine kills capitalists!"
- USSR misfires and drops Mosin
- Finland picks Mosin
- Finland enchants Mosin
Finland: "Nope. This machine kills you!"
Finland: I'll turn this missing rifle, into a killing rifle
So its good gun?
Cause i am going to buy one.
Simonster great for mosin standards
@@Euan_Miller43 It's as good as a century old rifle can be.
Thank you for the information. I just purchased a M39 and love it..
The Civil Guard did not see enforcing the front stock hinged ring necessary since bayonet attacks were not that much in favour in the doctrine of the Civil Guard but marksmanship instead.
Greetings from Finland! Exelent video! I have one Finnish Mosin my self.. I have to try that Simo Häyhä challenge.
In before major influx of Finns demanding for impromptu marketplace gatherings.
Time to meet at the market!
Finland mentioned, lets go to war!!!
Ian, I am upgrading your title to Professor Gun Jesus. Congratulations. You deserve it.
The Mosin Nagant actually still continues it's life in the FDF arsenal as the 7.62 TK 85, or the 7.62 sniper rifle 85. It has a substantially different stock and a way heavier barrel, equipped with either Zeiss or Schmidt & Bender optics. As a military rifle it is woefully obsolete, but it actually could be turned into a somewhat decent firearm with a couple of tweaks, the major one being converting them to use detachable magazines and switching to a synthetic stock. The rifle really heavy for what it is and one can't use stripper clips since the optics are in the way, so each cartridge has to be loaded manually, which is a pain in the ass to do. But it is accurate, I was able to put 10 rounds through pretty much the same hole at 300 meters back when I was a conscript. We had a couple those in Kosovo too, but there was something wrong with the optic mounts, those rifles just wouldn't hold zero. But then again we had SAKO TRG 42's there too, so not a huge loss.
There are two variants of the KIV 85, the "standardikivääri" (target rifle, or literally 'standard rifle') with heavy walnut stock and target diopter sights meant for FDF's 300m competitions, and then the lighter sniper rifle variant (TKIV 85 or TAK 85) with better adjustable birch stock, also lacking the diopter sights. The lighter variant is used as a dedicated sniper rifle meant for field use.
I had the "pleasure" of carrying a left-handed version (since I'm a lefty) of a Tkiv 85 in addition to my RK 62 pretty much anywhere we went during my military service. It was a pain in the butt, the rifle is super heavy.
But yeah, the Tkiv 85 has a modified Mosin Nagant receiver. The receiver doesn't have that round plate thing at the back and the charging handle has been replaced by a bit longer, angled one so that it doesn't interfere with the scope. The rifle has a detachable bipod which sucks, because it detaches itself slowly when you fire the rifle. About 10-20 rounds and your rifle falls off the bipod.
The Tkiv 85 might be being phased out currently, I have a couple of friends who served in the military in 2012 and 2013, and they only used Sako TRG 42's during their sniper training. I served in 2006, and no one got to fire the TRG 42, we just saw one being used by some higher ranking military dude.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/7%2C62_Tarkkuuskiv%C3%A4%C3%A4ri_85_Lippujuhlan_p%C3%A4iv%C3%A4_2013.JPG
Seen a ton of Mosin videos but as usual you excel at making any weapon interesting, have had quite a few Mosins and that justified getting a Vepr that uses the same food with no issues, again appreciate what you do keep it up!
My 91/30 has the M91 sight on it. At the very least my gun has a 34 receiver, but so many parts mis-matched, stock has been repaired at least five times and there's a few gouges and a missing piece at the end where the cleaning rod is held. I have the Frankenstein rifle.
Great information, I just inherited a finnish Mosin. Based on this video, I would say it's a M27. However there is no SA mark on the receiver. Has the protected end sight, improve rear sight, pop sickle sticks with hinged nose clamp, D and T in a triangle on receiver. Still has Russian sling set up with dog collars. No machined bolt either. Thanks for posting this, very helpful. 👍👍
This was one of the best videos on your channel Ian, very detailed and touching the historical points as necessary. Now it's time to watch Talvisota to see if the guns in the movie were accurate :) Thanks a lot and have a nice day. 3 dislikes soo far and I am sure they must all be the Russians :))))
Perfect length video to cover the major differences. Being raised during the Cold War, I just could never bring myself to buy a Mosin even when they were going for $79. (Most of them, today, are still worth only $99 to me... and I still wouldn't by one for that price out of principle). These, though - these are the 'versions' I would choose from. Thank you for covering them, Ian.
I watched this video a few years back, and now am rewatching it because I just picked up a 1939 Tula made Mosin that was captured by the Suomi in the Winter war. The rifle is in great shape, however you can see on the receiver where the Suomi scratched out the sickle and hammer lol. Also, getting the rifle from the ffl was a pain because they couldn't find who imported the rifle even with the serial numbers and data bases. So my Mosin is a Mystery rifle.
I just picked up a Tikka M91 today. The barrel is stamped 1941, but I haven't had a chance to figure out what year the receiver might be from. Can't wait to get it out on the range though.
Thank you Ian I wanted to do research on this topic but anything else was not specific enough.
I know it's been years, but just wanted to put this out there: Arshin (pace) is a 71.12 cm, so it would have been closer to say that 3/4 of a meter is one arshin.
9 arshins is exactly 7 yards. An arshin is 28 inches.
Great video Ian. I have a Finnish M24 that was once a WW1 rifle, and you really answered all my questions about it. Thanks! Keep up the good work.
Beautiful rifles!
Corpseman up!!!!
If that's a beautiful rifle. I have a sister you have to meet!!!!
Thank you for awesome review of these fine weapons! Lots of details I didn't know even I used to own all these models while living in Finland. I even bought brand new m/39 from army surplus for 120Euro back in a day. It had less than 10 rounds fired (factory test and CIP validation). My heart bled when I had to sell my collection because moving abroad. As a Finnish guy I appreciate your knowledge of the history of my homeland :) Keep up good work! Love your videos! Suomi Perkele!
Ian, do you think you could get your hands on a Suomi KP-31?
I didn't see if anyone else has said this in the past year and a half, but the stocks on the M91/24 and M27 are the most beautiful Mosin stocks I've ever seen.
Something about the Mosin I just love. It's not the best at anything, except maybe being rugged as hell. But I just love it.
Have to be rugged as hell to work from +35c to -40c with nasty swamps in the summer and cold that will make a polar bear want a cup of hot chocolate in the winter. That's one of the reasons why we Finns also perfected the AK, it simply works with anything you want to throw at it.
Always something to learn from Ian. I found that bidding and buying from RIA is easy and friendly.
Perkele, en ollut ensimmäinen suomalaiskommentoija.
*ojentaa kossupullon* Ens kerralla sitten...;)
ivan55599 I hope you were smiling when you said that! 😁
Great video... thanks for posting this.
Back in the days when I did my military service the army officers used to go on "recreational shootings" where they would pick and choose from stockpiled old rifles and have a day of fun at the range. Oh the joy of "shooting yourself through" history was fantastic - Mosins, KP m/44 with stick magazine OR pimped up with Suomi KP/-31 magazines and loads more.
Do you pay Rock Island Auction to make videos with their guns or do they let you go there for free? Just curious. You don't have to answer if you don't want to share that info, Iv'e just always wondered. Great video btw!
Marketing, of course he get payed for making this BUT also Ian who owns the FW channel, makes these videos to earn money and keeps educating us with weapons we never have seen in our lifes and gives the history behind it. I see it win win for us all. without the youtube revenue im pretty sure the FW wouldn't exist really long so please support this guy. FW is one of the most best youtube channels in the whole site what becomes to historical weapons.
im guessing that they try to accomodate him with a relatively quiet place to set up film since hey, free advertising for the upcoming auction.
Tarzan Do you also watch C&Rsenal?
Great video 👍👍the Finnis rifle m39 is very good old rifle👍👍🎯🎯
I heard that Simo Häyhä had so good sight that after the war he even filed taxes just by glaring at the forms.
Excellent video, Ian. I've been awaiting this one for a while.
Simo Hayha sits at the edge of Valhalla, aiming at the Russian/Finnish border, ready to show the world how good these rifles were.
Great video with some very good information. Thank you
m/24 was Lotta-Svärd purchased rifle for Suojeluskunta. It usually had larger swiss-made barrel which was shaved at the top end to accomodiate old bayonets.. Army did not recive those until the Winter war. Finnish m/91 is just m/91.
D -marking is NOT made for Russian ammo!
It is for Finnish D-style bullets (boat-tail) D27 (1927), D47 (1932) and D166 (1936) at that time we did not hold large quantities of Russian made ammunition.
Have an 28/30 from 1938 with an 1916 Westinghouse receiver and a Sako barrel (D). Great rifle. Thank you for the video :-)
IAN! FINLAND LOVES YOU! =D
dcrypter87 yes we do
@@SilverGamingFI Benis :DDDDDDD
@@parabellum9367 BENIS KAKSOISPISTE DDDDDDDDDDDDDD
nice to see one of these, they are very iconic here in finland.
A Finnish dude used a refurbished Russian rifles to kill over 500 Russian soldiers alone during the winter war. Never underestimate the home-field advantage, never underestimate the Finns. Evig respekt från eran granne, nu vänd er om och böj så jag kan sätta denna puck där den hör hemma.
That dude was Simo hayha.
Proud owner of M28/30 here, from year 1938 and with SKY stamp. Matching numbers after inspection. It was quite common that when they took in rifles and inspected them, old numbers were stamped over if some parts had to be replaced. Then those got new numbers. Atleast that's what I heard by some who are more "experts".
The final step before any country adopting a new pattern rifle should be to send it to Finland for refinement.
Finns be like: Oooh! A new toy to Finnish!
Wow! So much detail ! Thanks Ian!
I am not Finn but huva paiva suomi :)
:p
Hyvää päivää Turkki, iyi günler Türkiye right back at you :)
:)
Günaydin arkadash, from Finland. :)
I love Finland and all Fins :p
The information is wonderful and the smart comments even more wonderful..