There is really no reason why someone would find themselves in this "shortage" situation, except by careless error, and for that this a valuable video. Either the volume requirement is printed on the tank, or lack such, you start by measuring the amount required to fill the tank before you load the film. However, the issue of "how much" seems to repeat in Comments endlessly. Many seem concerned that they use the minimum volume of developer as a cost measure. When you consider the cost of time and money to shoot your photos, then the cost of film itself, the cost of chemistry per roll is almost negligible. The cost of using 50 or 100 ml more of D-76 1:1, Rodinal 50:1, or whatever you prefer is what, maybe a dime? So as a rule, use more than the minimum just be be safe. If you use highly diluted developer working solutions, you must also be sure that there is enough stock developer in your working solution to put enough developing agent in the tank. That is a more subtle problem.
Its a problem that I see continuously happen to new users, so wanted to share the reason more than the solution, but a two in one could make a better video. I always add 50ml just in case.
I have had similar issues using 120 Film in a Paterson Tank but not as bad as these, only really noticeable in the bright area on the edge of the film. I chatted with the Boss of Paterson at a show in the UK and he said to use the little twiddling stick that comes with the Paterson Tank to agitate when developing 120 Roll Film which is what I now do. I also recommend making sure the film reel is all the way to the bottom of the Centre Column when putting the reel in the tank, I have cut a little spacer which fits over the centre column, now the reel cannot move upwards. I also use 600 Ml of Chemistry when developing film in a Paterson Tank.. Hope this might be of use to someone.
I have had the same issue recently, when I used Ilfosol 3 instead of ID-11. I found it weird it happened when I changed developer, but also tried more developer. 540mL instead of 500mL, but then still had the issue. New hypothesis is, that it is due to my new/very fast stopbath, without agitation. I already did this with using ID-11, but the time for FP4+ is 7:30 (Ilfosol 3 1+14) vs 20:00 (ID-11 1+3). Because ID-11 works much slower, I haven't noticed the insufficient stopping there. I developed another roll tonight, now with a longer stop. I'll scan it tomorrow and see if it's fixed.
Very interesting, it might also happen for other reason sometimes. I just knew this happens when you use less developer. But never heard of fast stopbath, or not agitating, what chemical is that?
@@NicosPhotographyShow nothing special, just a very short (in time) stopbath. It always took me like a minuteto stop, pouring it in, closed it, agitate, pouring it out. Then I read that a stopbath should be 10-30 seconds, so I ended up with pouring the stop in and then poured it back right after. So maybe, the upper part of the film isn't stopped properly this way, although I use ~600mL of stopbath. On first sight, I don't see it on the negatives now. I'll let you know if I see it when I scanned them.
Coincidentally I had this issue for the first time yesterday when I developed a roll of XP2 in my Paterson tank. I had a working solution of Tetenal C-41 of 500ml instead of the usual 1L. After the first development I lost some chemical by spilling out of the tank. It must have been around 490ml but that was enough for the dreadful stain to appear on the side. I don't agitate too much because both my Jobo and Paterson tanks don't hold well. So rolling the tank is probably not the best option for me. My question is, can I add 20ml of plain water in the mix and perhaps compensate the process by adding another 15"? From 3:15" to 3:30".
That is a question I cant answer, color chemistry is not as simple as black and white. I would suggest if you leak some chemicals to do what I did and rotate. Better that than add water and ballpark a time.
Short Answer: Yes, you certainly can. I doubt you would see any difference if you did not extend the development time as noted. We are talking about a 4% dilution here. A lot of folks exceed that margin of error by sloppy mixing of new chemistry or excess exhaustion of reused chemistry. If your tanks leak enough to deter you from adequate agitation, you need to toss them out now and buy a better quality of tank. Paterson is the pits, but based only on price and reputation, I'm surprised you are having trouble with a Jobo (although I do not use them myself). If you want to use a roller system for developing, one blast from the past would be the Unicolor Filmdrum or standard developing tank. Since Unicolor was a leading exponent of using a powered drum roller base, it designed its tanks with gaskets which when properly used make them absolutely leak-proof. Unhappily, you'd have to haunt Ebay to find them these days.
I dont have leaks on my Jobo but then Im using rotation and less chemicals so they probably don't reach the lid. The Unicolor option is not bad alternative.
Yeah but you also get this error of to little liquid when you use third party reels. I use the patterson system and i bhought some kaiser reels recently. Appartly the reel moves up the column during aggitation thus creating the same error. Using a rubber band so it doenst move up is a solution that also works!
Yup, it can also happen like that, its a way less common issue but one should keep the same reels as the tank and center core manufacturer or use a rubber band ;)
Hi Nico. First of all, thanks for all your videos. Second: I develop all my TMax with TMax Dev and always use the rotating tank technique. BUT, I don't use the same times, nor the same dilution!!! If I try to develop a film roll with the same dilution and the same times I use in normal under normal developing, I get an overdeveloped negative. In fact, it happened to me once ... I understand that JOBO gives you special instructions for rotation development ... Gracias y saludos!
Hi Juan, interesting, I have never had issues with rotation, but its always done in a Jobo (except for this video). But as usual its all about what works for each one of us. ;) Saludos!
When you use a rotation agitation, such as a roller drum, that is "continuous agitation". If you have a good working time/temp for intermittent agitation, one rule of thumb is to reduce the process time by 15% for the same film/developer using continuous agitation. You can fine tune the time form there. I would not vary the dilution while doing this, as you never want to be experimenting with more than one variable at a time...
Can't wait for the rest of the series! I'm having an issue where I get black dots on my paper after development. It's not the film because the dots are not in the same place for multiple prints from the same negative.
@@NicosPhotographyShow The paper is old. I got it for free from someone's basement, however the package was sealed. The fixer was about 2 or 3 weeks old. All other chemistry was fresh
Great video! could you do one on developing prints in the jobo drum tank? I keep getting issues when making 8X10 prints with my jobo cpe2. similar to this video, undeveloped marks on the top and middle of the prints and I'm finding it hard to get advice on how to fix
@@NicosPhotographyShow, I normally use the twiddle stick. Yes I guess as you invert it normally rolling it would work fine, just that I have only ever seen rolling marked on jobo tanks
Hello Nico, when is recommended to push the cap on the Jobo lid: before or after attaching? I have developed tons of reels in the the Jobo processor but I see this pushing cap technique for the first time in this video. Cheers
@@NicosPhotographyShowagreed I have wasted 50 rolls of c41 trying to find a reliable home set up. Gave up and now use burgeoning hipster developer firms in UK. Would like to do my own again one day though.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/nicosphotographyshow05211
There is really no reason why someone would find themselves in this "shortage" situation, except by careless error, and for that this a valuable video. Either the volume requirement is printed on the tank, or lack such, you start by measuring the amount required to fill the tank before you load the film. However, the issue of "how much" seems to repeat in Comments endlessly. Many seem concerned that they use the minimum volume of developer as a cost measure. When you consider the cost of time and money to shoot your photos, then the cost of film itself, the cost of chemistry per roll is almost negligible. The cost of using 50 or 100 ml more of D-76 1:1, Rodinal 50:1, or whatever you prefer is what, maybe a dime? So as a rule, use more than the minimum just be be safe. If you use highly diluted developer working solutions, you must also be sure that there is enough stock developer in your working solution to put enough developing agent in the tank. That is a more subtle problem.
Its a problem that I see continuously happen to new users, so wanted to share the reason more than the solution, but a two in one could make a better video. I always add 50ml just in case.
Thank you for posting this great video, i'm def in the 'Picture' regarding developing. 🙂
Thank you! I suspected this was what was wrong with my last results, but now I know for certain.
Glad it helped!
I have had similar issues using 120 Film in a Paterson Tank but not as bad as these, only really noticeable in the bright area on the edge of the film. I chatted with the Boss of Paterson at a show in the UK and he said to use the little twiddling stick that comes with the Paterson Tank to agitate when developing 120 Roll Film which is what I now do. I also recommend making sure the film reel is all the way to the bottom of the Centre Column when putting the reel in the tank, I have cut a little spacer which fits over the centre column, now the reel cannot move upwards. I also use 600 Ml of Chemistry when developing film in a Paterson Tank.. Hope this might be of use to someone.
I can’t wait for more of these videos!
Thanks! Excited to share more soon.
What a great video! Looking forward for the next video in this series.
Thanks Abel, more to come soon.
Thank you Nicos that explain what happened to me too .
Its a common mistake, but it's thankfully a step one takes and learns!
I have had the same issue recently, when I used Ilfosol 3 instead of ID-11.
I found it weird it happened when I changed developer, but also tried more developer. 540mL instead of 500mL, but then still had the issue.
New hypothesis is, that it is due to my new/very fast stopbath, without agitation. I already did this with using ID-11, but the time for FP4+ is 7:30 (Ilfosol 3 1+14) vs 20:00 (ID-11 1+3). Because ID-11 works much slower, I haven't noticed the insufficient stopping there.
I developed another roll tonight, now with a longer stop. I'll scan it tomorrow and see if it's fixed.
Very interesting, it might also happen for other reason sometimes. I just knew this happens when you use less developer. But never heard of fast stopbath, or not agitating, what chemical is that?
@@NicosPhotographyShow nothing special, just a very short (in time) stopbath. It always took me like a minuteto stop, pouring it in, closed it, agitate, pouring it out. Then I read that a stopbath should be 10-30 seconds, so I ended up with pouring the stop in and then poured it back right after. So maybe, the upper part of the film isn't stopped properly this way, although I use ~600mL of stopbath.
On first sight, I don't see it on the negatives now. I'll let you know if I see it when I scanned them.
Let me know
@@NicosPhotographyShow this roll was not completely without it, it has those kind of marks on only one or two frames.
That seems to be strange with chemical issues, maybe its a light leak. Thats the next video...
Coincidentally I had this issue for the first time yesterday when I developed a roll of XP2 in my Paterson tank. I had a working solution of Tetenal C-41 of 500ml instead of the usual 1L. After the first development I lost some chemical by spilling out of the tank. It must have been around 490ml but that was enough for the dreadful stain to appear on the side. I don't agitate too much because both my Jobo and Paterson tanks don't hold well. So rolling the tank is probably not the best option for me. My question is, can I add 20ml of plain water in the mix and perhaps compensate the process by adding another 15"? From 3:15" to 3:30".
That is a question I cant answer, color chemistry is not as simple as black and white. I would suggest if you leak some chemicals to do what I did and rotate. Better that than add water and ballpark a time.
Short Answer: Yes, you certainly can. I doubt you would see any difference if you did not extend the development time as noted. We are talking about a 4% dilution here. A lot of folks exceed that margin of error by sloppy mixing of new chemistry or excess exhaustion of reused chemistry. If your tanks leak enough to deter you from adequate agitation, you need to toss them out now and buy a better quality of tank. Paterson is the pits, but based only on price and reputation, I'm surprised you are having trouble with a Jobo (although I do not use them myself). If you want to use a roller system for developing, one blast from the past would be the Unicolor Filmdrum or standard developing tank. Since Unicolor was a leading exponent of using a powered drum roller base, it designed its tanks with gaskets which when properly used make them absolutely leak-proof. Unhappily, you'd have to haunt Ebay to find them these days.
I dont have leaks on my Jobo but then Im using rotation and less chemicals so they probably don't reach the lid. The Unicolor option is not bad alternative.
Yeah but you also get this error of to little liquid when you use third party reels. I use the patterson system and i bhought some kaiser reels recently. Appartly the reel moves up the column during aggitation thus creating the same error. Using a rubber band so it doenst move up is a solution that also works!
Yup, it can also happen like that, its a way less common issue but one should keep the same reels as the tank and center core manufacturer or use a rubber band ;)
Hi Nico. First of all, thanks for all your videos.
Second: I develop all my TMax with TMax Dev and always use the rotating tank technique. BUT, I don't use the same times, nor the same dilution!!!
If I try to develop a film roll with the same dilution and the same times I use in normal under normal developing, I get an overdeveloped negative.
In fact, it happened to me once ...
I understand that JOBO gives you special instructions for rotation development ...
Gracias y saludos!
Hi Juan, interesting, I have never had issues with rotation, but its always done in a Jobo (except for this video). But as usual its all about what works for each one of us. ;) Saludos!
When you use a rotation agitation, such as a roller drum, that is "continuous agitation". If you have a good working time/temp for intermittent agitation, one rule of thumb is to reduce the process time by 15% for the same film/developer using continuous agitation. You can fine tune the time form there. I would not vary the dilution while doing this, as you never want to be experimenting with more than one variable at a time...
Great video Nico!
Glad you enjoyed it
Congrats for the skillshare sponsorship Nico!
Thank you Herman!
I like your talking style. My monitor is now perfectly cleaned from the inside.
This happened to me the first time I developed two rolls of 35mm in one tank. Couldn’t figure out what had happened to the top roll. 😓
Now you know! Its all to learn and grow. Hope next time it will work out well.
Can't wait for the rest of the series! I'm having an issue where I get black dots on my paper after development. It's not the film because the dots are not in the same place for multiple prints from the same negative.
Thank you! Is it with new paper? Also are you using new chemistry?
@@NicosPhotographyShow The paper is old. I got it for free from someone's basement, however the package was sealed. The fixer was about 2 or 3 weeks old. All other chemistry was fresh
Excellent Nicos .
Glad you like it!
awesome series idea!
Glad you like them!
Excellent video! Please do more👍🏻
We have 12 in the works for season 1, so its coming soon!
Great video! could you do one on developing prints in the jobo drum tank? I keep getting issues when making 8X10 prints with my jobo cpe2. similar to this video, undeveloped marks on the top and middle of the prints and I'm finding it hard to get advice on how to fix
Are you sure this works with Paterson tanks?
As the drainage holes on the Paterson is around the edge of the lid
Once the lid is on it should work fine, you do invert the tank with Paterson and it holds, right? So rotating should work just fine.
@@NicosPhotographyShow, I normally use the twiddle stick. Yes I guess as you invert it normally rolling it would work fine, just that I have only ever seen rolling marked on jobo tanks
Lots of people use Paterson to rotate and even more inversion. But they do leak a bit.
Hello Nico, when is recommended to push the cap on the Jobo lid: before or after attaching?
I have developed tons of reels in the the Jobo processor but I see this pushing cap technique for the first time in this video.
Cheers
Im not sure honestly. I think it helps prevent the loss of water or chemicals, but not 100% sure.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Great content
Thanks!! Hope to slowly show more common issues and mistakes to help film users identify problems and improve.
Good to know, thank you.
Thanks Mike! Hope it helps.
Thank you for the nice tip. Strange strip appears several time in my past..
Anyway, she looks cute!
Thanks! Its a bummer and has happened to me only one time before.
Great video! I would love to see videos on what happens if you leave leave the film in the developer too long, or too short. Thanks!!!
Will see if I can make it happen so we can all learn from it.
thaks. happen one time :)
You are welcome! Its happened to most of us at some point.
Would be helpful if you had different types of badly developed film and be able to identify what went wrong. C41 especially. Very hard to pinpoint.
Will try my best, like you said so many variables with c41 it might be a series itself.
@@NicosPhotographyShowagreed I have wasted 50 rolls of c41 trying to find a reliable home set up. Gave up and now use burgeoning hipster developer firms in UK. Would like to do my own again one day though.