Is Film Expensive? What do you think? I say...
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Is Film Photography expensive?
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EQUIPMENT USED IN THIS VIDEO
CAMERA - Chinon CS Camera
FILM - Ilford Ortho 80
DEVELOPER - Rodinal
STOP & FIX - Water/Zone
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Editing - FCP, PHOTOSHOP, LIGHTROOM,
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If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
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If you only want to shoot Portra 800 on a Mamiya 7 and get it professionally developed and scanned then yes it is expensive. Black and white + home development and the occasional color roll is not terribly expensive and the route I choose.
This is the way.
+ bulk load fomapan 100 35mm, then shoot in a half frame 35mm camera like an Oly Pen F, and stand develop in Fomadon r09 @ 1+100
Okay maybe that's a bit extreme 😁
@@thisisbenji90 Benjamin has spoken!.
How I roll.....
@@BlueSatt I never purchased a half frame camera when there was no alternative to film and colour processing was available almost everywhere.
I did use a bulk film loader for monochrome and intend to return to using it, providing I can buy bulk film.
My thrift Nikon SLR was cheaper than the half frame cameras are on line, so I will continue to use full frame format.
I've come around on this subject too. A lot of us grew up in that sweet era from the late 2000s when film was a couple bucks a roll. Cameras and lenses aren't as much overpriced (well, some are) as they're finally getting recognized for their value. We can't live in the past forever
I went from 35 mm to 120 and then 4x5 over 3 years , I've spent an absolute fortune, but I've had a blast and my kit seems to be worth more than it cost me which relives the pain
Don't forget that the images are inverted by the camera, so the light leak will be coming from the bottom of the camera.
As the bands are equadistant (evenly spaced), that would indicate that the light leak is fairly minimal and marrs the film when it is stationary, waiting for you to take the next shot.
Try having a look at the bottom light seal across the back of the camera and make sure that it meets/overlaps with the seal down the hinge end of the back as well, since the light may be getting in at that point.
Light that come through the lense are inverted. But from other sources?
An old SLR, a 50mm lens, developing tank and chemicals shouldn't cost you more than £100. Add ten rolls of HP5 for a total of £160. Whereas a new-ish DSLR, lens, SD cards, spare batteries, hard drives and a subscription to Lightroom will easily surpass £2k.
I'm not really sure where you're finding these prices, but I doubt I could buy an SLR + lens for under $100 or £100, let alone the developing tank/chemicals together for this total.
It depends on what you're looking for, but a $50 camera + lens (assuming the tank + chems cost at most $50), seems like a lucky find for me...
Also, you didn't mention how you'd either scan or print the negatives (something not many people will do nowadays), scanning will also cost some money to start with (either a real scanner, or "DSLR scanning").
Which brings me back to the point that, if you're scanning, you'd also need Lightroom, hard drives, scanner software, etc. Overall, not cost effective, but won't stop me from shooting.
(I don't develop film myself BTW)
@@Ryan-lc4bl Oh, there are camera bargains to be had, for sure. I’m still using an old Pentax that doesn’t sell for much for than £35. YMMV, but it helps to shop around some of the more obscure models.
The scanning is admittedly an additional cost. You could always take your processed negs into a store and have them scanned for you to start, before buying a used dedicated scanned for around £200-£250.
We’re all aware of the cultural differences between shooting film and digital. With digital you’ll most likely shoot everything in RAW to be edited later, whereas with film I’d be hard pressed to find many people that scan absolutely every negative in TIFF (I only do TIFF scans of the keepers, and JPEGs for the rest). Either way you can always come back and scan them later.
I’ve also found that Lightroom is a bit overkill for editing B&W film scans. The images I get from my camera are always about 95% there. Whatever changes I need to make - be it retouching or contrast, etc - can be done with free software.
Film may just seem more expensive because you’re buying more often. Digital is just a big expensive payment up front and you’re set to go.
@@joedonohoe22
I get my film developed and scanned at a shop, but IMHO their service is quite poor for what they're charging me... I requested their highest resolution (enough to make a 20×30cm print), and they sent me JPEGs which looked quite bad when viewed on a computer screen.
When I did manage to get some prints done, they were quite soft, although the printing lab has really nice quality paper...
Honestly, I don't own a DSLR, and if I did, I woudn't shoot it like I do with my Pentax Spotmatic, on the other hand I'd like a more automatic camera, going through 36 exp. with just manual mode feels.... well, quite painfully slow and awful.
My dream would be to setup a darkroom, and forget about all the scanning, but I just can't afford it...
Have a good search around. Facebook Market Place, Schools where they no longer use film, of course eBay. Many good SLR's about with a lens for a good price. Maybe not your Canon/Nikon.
Great video, Roger . I fi had to send my film to a lab, I would not have gotten back into film photography . I had to refresh my B&W development procedure and learned how to develop color . I shoot with , mostly medium format, keeping 3 - 4 projects to a roll, working on creativity . Two years on film and it's been great. Like any hobby, got to consider costs, and film is a lot cheaper than my cycling hobby . To stay in style, sunglasses cost $200 . Thanks. KB
I’m 54 and grew up using film cameras. I understand the remaining appeal in a digital age. A couple of rolls a film a month shouldn’t be prohibitive for most of us who are working. I don’t really enjoy developing at home and I absolutely hate scanning negatives. I’ve moved on to digital and I’m quite happy with the results. I’m able to shoot my digital cameras very similar to the way I used to shoot my film cameras.
I agree with you. I shot film heavily once I joined the U.S. Air Force in 1970. At my first overseas base, Clark AB, Philippines, I had a ball shooting everything in sight. We had a great hobby shop with all the developing stuff we needed and great enlargers to make B&W prints. We could also develop Ektachrome slide film. Loved the experience but not really crazy about starting over developing film. Having a great time with my Sony mirrorless cameras. Great for taking family photos and especially of the grandkids.
If you grab something like an old Canon 5D original, then it's very much like a late film camera.
“Shoot what you can afford” Great advice! Make every image shot worthy of the investment.
I don't have a problem when I have to pay a bit more for a roll of Acros or Portra when I go out for shooting. As you already said, it's just a hobby after all. But I have also quite a lot of old cameras and I love to play around with them and I also like to experiment when doing my negative development. New shooters will need some cheap rolls to burn through without counting exposures in their heads when they start out. For all of this we really need affordable film and I really hope that companies like Foma and others will stay in business as long as possible.
Yes let's hope so!
Great video!
Photography has never been particularly cheap, either as a hobby or as a profession. Especially with us, behind the Iron Curtain. Today I deal with photography on film as a hobby, playing with old cameras with old lenses. In my opinion, this fun and its effects are worth the money invested. All the imperfections of cameras and optics and the consequences in the form of defective photos, that's part of the fun. I love it. I do not expect perfection from a hundred-year-old Kodak camera, produced as a popular and cheap camera, but also from a slightly younger, several-dozen-year-old Exakta, although it was dedicated to professionals. However, the look of the photos is unmistakable! And I'm all about that unique look. Especially photos finished in a real darkroom on photosensitive paper. It's not cheap, but worth the price!
Regards 😁
I shoot digital and film, and i take both seriously. For film, i set up by shooting studies of my subject using digital - it might be 10 shots, it could be 50. I use these studies to inform everything from composition to the look of the finished article. When i feel ready (hours... days... weeks), i shoot the frame. The hit rate is (predictably?) high. I first shot film in the early eighties... i still remember it for the cost of all those mistakes. I now believe that digital can, with a bit of thought, provide a great and inexpensive tool for both learning photography (we're fully manual here) and for supporting film shooting. Digital also works great as a 'visual notebook'... collecting possibilities on the fly, these to be considered and revisited with either digital or film. I appreciate that these 'methods' are only relevant to certain types of photography. Thanks for the thoughtful video. Cheers.
Excellent video, totally agree it’s as expensive as you make it. Shooting black & white is cheap when home developed and scanned. Just calculated that I can shoot 35mm Kentmere, from a bulk roll, develop and scan for less than £5 per roll. Even colour can be reasonable if you avoid the trendy stocks and home develop, C41 isn’t difficult. What digital shooters never factor in is the never ending upgrade cycle of their cameras. I have several cameras from the 1950’s that still can produce stunning darkroom enlargements and don’t need upgrading ever 3 to 5 years.
I agree 100% with all you have said!!! For me it's the joy of the process ... I love taking pictures, I love the magic of developing and seeing the negs!!! Also after 45 years of shooting, I still get surprises, mostly from trying different cameras!!!
A sticky shutter can cause vertical lines on the film like that. Also the fact that the "leak" doesn't show on every frame suggests an intermittent problem, which again points to the shutter. Also, sticky shutters are usually more of a problem in the cold. Worth a look maybe? For me, having just recently returned to photgraphy, the cost of film and paper is an issue, especially as I prefer medium format. However, I am being much more thoughtful about what I shoot as a result, and this is probably a good thing.
The Chinon CS has a vertical shutter doesn't it? If so the lines would be horizontal... More likely to be a faulty light seal, warped or flexing back so it doesn't seal properly, or dirt where the door closes leaving a gap for light to get through.
Yes it's vertical. I changed the seals again. Yet to retry
Been shooting film since I was 13yrs old (1972). Never stopped, have digital equipment also, but film causes me to think more. Of course the cost has gone up drastically over all the years but what hasn't?? In fact it is a great investment as the cost and limited number of shots per roll will cause you to slow down, think more and your compositions should improve over time. I specialize in Black and White ( color photography without all the distracting colors) and buy my 35mm in bulk, brings the cost per roll down substantially. Also do some medium format and the square format is one more forced discipline, makes the winning shots that much more special!!!!!
Hello Roger, film is expensive because we bought super cheap in 2010. But there are many way to keep the costs down. Buying in bulk, perhaps with some friends, developing and scanning at home. I believe the biggest difference is with color film, but the same can be applied, buying motion pictures film in bulk. I know it easy for us that have all the equipment, than for new film shoots, but if they really end up liking shooting with film, just star buy a few things to make everything at home. Cheers my good friend 👍
Hey Peds. Good idea buying bulk with friends. Nice to hear from you mate
I agree, it's as expensive as you want it to be. Even colour, there's ways to make it cheaper, the main one is to be more selective. Plus when you add inflation on top, well it's not so bad really. I think we're just in a society of expecting things to be "free", a comparison could be made between this topic, and music, spotify vs. cds/vinyl, etc.
What price enjoyment?
Many people I know have hobbies that cost way more than my photographic one, but they enjoy it. I see a passion in their eyes for what they do as they see in mine for what I do.
As you say, getting started need not cost a lot and Ilford have film stocks at reasonable prices. I’m using and enjoying the output from the Kentmere 120 stocks at the moment.
I moved into making my own developer’s for both film and paper, FX-55 and Barry Thorntons 2 bath for film and E-72 for paper & enjoying that immensely. Chemistry set of my youth but now with a real-world application
🙂
Your advise on starting in this field is spot on and I can add no more to it.
What ever you do, enjoy it.
I actually think a lot like you. A large cappuccino is often $4.75 (and more in airports). For only a couple dollars more I can get a 36 exposure roll of film and the joy of that last longer than the overpriced coffee. If I have a coffee and scone then I can sometimes still buy 2 rolls of some film. So, it is the fact that film is becoming more expensive. It is a question of supply and demand. There is increasing demand but not a largely increasing supply. In addition the items to make film and the transport are also increasing. But, the increased costs are still worth the fun that I continue to have shooting, processing, and scanning film (I have to use a hybrid process as I can't have a darkroom). Everyone makes their own decisions but I agree with your assessment.
During my career as a professional photographer in Los Angeles I have seen invoices for film payments larger than my day rate , I don’t see that anymore since I moved to digital!
Did your day rate increase to cover the cost of the equipment transition to Digital? Cameras, Lenses, Cards. I remember CF Cards being stupid expensive 10 or so years ago.
We clearly live in. The same area! Looks like this video was shot mainly in Portsmouth. I have gone back to film again and “finding” Parkers in Southampton has been a godsend.
Holga, Lubitel, Zenith, Zorki, Spotmatic.... Leica there are stil cameras for every budget. I get my film stocks from a localish camera shop, some 25 miles from home. They are cheaper than the big online players for the stocks I buy and the P&P cost are cheaper than the parking and fuel cost..... The guy with the Cheesy Chips...What a legend!
Its expensive but as you said, all hobbies and interests are expensive. Shooting a roll or two, or even three, per month still costs me less than going fishing, hunting, or an afternoon at the rifle range. And lately I enjoy photography much more than anything else.
I have shot film off and on for about 60 years if I count my first camera, a Kodak Brownie Holiday Flash (1960ish). I travel a lot and I'm getting tired of hassling the scanners at the airports, hotels, and museums. I went to Egypt last year and had to deal with no less than 21 scanners! Pleading with the operators to hand check the film and cameras was mostly successful but I held up lines, got some rude operators on power trips, etc. I purposely took slow film to avoid fogging. I am heading down your way soon but will only bring an underwater digicam (for the reef) and a super zoom bridge camera this trip. I will still shoot film on photo walks back in the USA but will supplement that with early CCD (film like) cheap digicams from the mid-2000s. In other words, it's not just the cost but the growing hassle (at least for me) that's forcing me to embrace alternatives.
Light leaks probably from shutter side, try with open aperture and flash light directly in the lens
I started on film but now shoot mostly on digital. I do enjoy the process of shooting with film but the cost and inconvenience of having to post the film off for d&p is putting me off.
I would encourage them. I started in the age of film before digital. The problem is the dearth of photo labs that were ubiquitous. Which kept a lot of the costs down. Now there’s only a few in my city. I’m going back to developing my own film. One camera store plans on opening a hobby lab there. But because of the cost new photographers will be less likely to take snapshots and not wasting film.
I guess for most, snapshots can be done on the phone Jerry and save the film for more planned photos.
I had a similar issue with a Pentak Spotmatic. I found the light leak would only occur based on how my left palm was putting pressure on the film back. Sometimes too much squeezing on the back would cause no leaks, and sometimes no pressure on the back caused no leaks. Either way another set of new seals is advised. I did notice on your negs there light leak seems consistent to the same sprocket holes on the frame, which is inconclusive to my issue, but just a thought
“Comparison is the thief of joy”.
Most of us complaining about rising camera and film costs (and I do it constantly) have been enjoying unrealistic prices for film and used equipment for years. What we have now are actually quite reasonable prices for both. This video is a very helpful reminder that we’ve still got it great. Price gouging exists for sure and you’re at risk if you’re new to the market but it’s generally a MUCH cheaper hobby than it was back in the 80s & 90s when us Gen Xers got started.
You either have a lot of disposable income or are viewing film prices through rose tinted glasses. I only ever used film for personal and professional work in the 80’s, no digital cameras, and 90’s, digital available but very expensive. I never felt the need to hesitate over the cost of the film I was buying. I only buy black and white film now. There is only one player making film now in large quantities, Kodak Alaris or is it Kodak Hil-Arius? When the equipment, expertise and infrastructure are already in place the only reason for constantly raising prices is good old fashioned greed.
I agree it’s as expensive as you want it to be. I love shooting film and also developing them. I can get Ilford HP4 35mm 36 shot film from my local camera house for AUD $22 (about £12) I find that paper is pretty expensive here and bought a Plustek 8100 scanner to be able to digitise my negs. I’m using my old Olympus OM10 (bought in 1980 👀) and recently found a Nikon F75 on eBay. New seals on the Olympus and it still works fine. I intend to develop prints this year. I have a Paterson Home Darkroom kit that I also bought in the 1980’s. Everything still works.
I think you tend to think more when shooting film. Your composure is more thought out.
Well analysis and well said. I have always enjoyed your videos and find inspiration in your works! I do enjoy shooting in films and developing myself. I still find it hard to explain to others “why I do it?” In this digital era. In fact I really can’t. I don’t think I can ever. But I will definitely continue my path of film photography.
Old guys like me (75) have the perfect explanation - OLD!
@@grahamrichards8531 is being Old an unwillingness to change, or is it that we have found a way to express what we want to say our way.
@@petervanorsouw2858 In my case its an unwillingness to wrestle with new technology that keeps being updated, the cost and the likely redundancy (as anyone that made a video tape in years past will appreciate).
@@grahamrichards8531 You are so right 👍I don't want to chase megapixels as well.
I never thought I would see the day when I asked my daughter to help me with technology... I do! I guess s time moves on we are not as inquisitive maybe with keeping up with trends.
I really enjoy your video, Roger, and simply agree. I've been taking photos since 1955 when I was seven. So film is my main experience, and I still like it without compromise. Today I conjoin 35mm film gear and a little bit digital gear by using the same set of lenses fitting both - only manual focused - as a matter of course. Sustainability is great if you respect the analogue way: gear is long available, you mustn't buy such high-priced things like new hardware with so impractical big & heavy lenses, and most of all, by use of oldies you mustn't find satisfaction in doing peripheral but excessive operations aiming at the same simple target: shooting pictures which delight you. Now to the costs: Low budget = 6.66 euros per Kodak GOLD 200/36exp. plus 5.65 per film processing with 36 9/13cm prints and a survey sheet. That is 12.31 euros per 36 exp., 123.10 euros per 10 films and 246.20 euros per 20 films - that will do it for a year. On the other hand, the Voigtlaender Vitomatic II (1958) in best shape I purchased in 2023.06 for 25 euros, the Asahi Pentax Spotmatic (as a black beauty) with 120mm/f2.8 Super Takumar last year for less than 150 euros. In conclusion, digital is much more expensive than analogue today. But in 1971, my Nikon F/FTN with Nikkor 1.8/85 cost half the price of a Morris Mini 1000 MkII. And a Zoom-Nikkor 4.5/80-200 cost 1890 DM, today about 50 euros;-))
Thanks for the analisis and sharing your experience. Gone are the days a camera is half the price of a new car. Unless you are in Leica teritory.
I started shooting two cameras one film one digital. On a harness they're easy to carry and you have the best of both worlds. On mirrorless I make sure the vintage glass I bring fits the film camera so that's one less thing to carry.
Photography is only as expensive as you want to make it = TRUE
Take Golf. A decent set of clubs will cost c.£500, membership to a club is about the same, per annum, if you go Pay as you Play it's about £20 a round. Factor in golf balls (you will lose some) and possibly a lesson or two, then a drink or two in the clubhouse afterwards.
Expensive.
Contrast that with film photography. A used, professional quality camera and a couple of lenses (Olympus, Pentax, Canon, Nikon) will set you back less than £200, Bulk load your own film @ around £2:50 - £3:00 per cassette, £20 for chemicals and you have the basis of film photography.
The same goes with any hobby, Roger, R/C aeroplanes, Sailing, Stamp collecting. They all have costs, and it's the love of our hobby that is the key.
For that money you can have one night with an high class escort. Golf is cheap.
My point: there is always something that's costing more, but if you're not into it's not relevant.
But I agree with you other than that, you can make it as expensive as you want. And imagine, I have three Mamiya MF setups, a Pentax LX with several finders and lenses, two Texas Leica's and Rolleiflex.
People with an comparable job and income back in the day probably couldn't afford all this and probably was already more than happy with the Pentax ME that I forgot to mention or a Rolleicord
Roger you are a very smart man. I just got back into 35mm film within the last few months I gave it up about 6 or 7 years ago I sold all my equipment so I had to get new stuff. Yes it is much more expensive now then it was then and I am starting to have second thoughts but as you said shoot what you can afford. If I give it up again it will be forever unless the prices fall drastically. It is a sad world we live in because people like me can’t afford to do anything these days because of the prices. The one positive thing I have to say is I hope you don’t give it up because I really enjoy watching you and what you do with film. I am going to limit myself and see where that takes me, keep up the great work Roger.
Thats the point of the video Rick. You don't have to give up. Shoot as much as you can afford. Even I have to hold back especially Large format. As much as I'd love to shoot that much more I use that very sparingly as the sheets are expensive
A former Kodak employee commented recently that film demand has grown so much that Kodak Rochester plant is now running triple shifts, round the clock and struggling to hire enough employees. So wages must be raised to hire workers and to obtain and replace equipment to meet demand. Kodak prices are about to increase, but I feel it’s for a good cause.
They’ve had nearly a decade to read the room and see the trends and build whatever canning/finishing thing they need. I think they’re taking the piss. I hope to be proved wrong with the return of pro image 100 pro packs for £40 please 🙏🏽
Wow. Film is making a good comeback then if Kodak need more staff to keep up with demand. Which is a good thing. If it was in decline then we would struggle to get film eventually.
When you said about people saying “why don’t you shoot digital, it’s cheaper, easier and Quicker”. Your reply is perfect. I personally chose film against digital because it DOES make you slow down and consider each shot much more. No hobby is cheap. Film photography is cheaper than many I can think of. Buying gear that once cost hundreds or thousands for a song is also part of the enjoyment for me.
it's damn expensive, I remember when a roll cost less than a euro... but Cameras and development are still very cheap (as long as you don't necessarily have to have the same P&S as some Instagram star)
Here in Germany, the development of a film currently costs €2.25 and €4.40 with printing of the pictures.
You can get a camera at a flea market or online for €1 to €25
But the actual film itself is unfortunately too expensive in the meantime and I think that the companies should be a little less greedy ( in the end they saw off the already rotten and thin branch on which they are sitting).
using film especially if you print in the darkroom is well worth the money because of the creative satisfaction it gives. I started using film in 1976 when i was 7 years old and the magic and excitement i felt then i still get to this day. I would say its the price of wet darkroom photographic paper that is getting expensive and it worries me that ilford whos products i use exclusively and i beleive are the best will survive in these difficult finacial times.
Really enjoy your videos and enthusiasm for film photography many thanks from a fellow londoner (understand every word)
Thanks Tim
Could have been a bad seal on the film canister. I’ve had that happen before & traced it back to that. Cinestill & other re-rolls are notorious for those types of leaks too.
It's possible!
you can still find camera bargains at charity shops. Black and white film is still pretty cheap. Id say its cheaper than going to the pub every week.
I miss so much K25. So I sold my FM2.
What I learned is I need to see paper photos in my hands with digital today.
Funny you mentioned this, I was at my local Wally-World a few weeks ago and discovered they still have 3-packs of 35mm film surprisingly at about the same price when I switched too digital ($9.99 for three rolls). I've been wanting to try out my pinhole box camera and I find I can get a roll for around the same price, and developing it would only cost around 20-30 dollars (developing, scanning -large files, media). The only thing I have a hard time swallowing is I can only get 8 images from that roll! Cheers!
That's a good deal. About 5 years ago one of our shops here in the UK called "Poundland" where they sell cheap crap usually but often handy crap, used to sell Agfa Vista 200 colour film for £1 36exp. That was a bargain
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Geeze, that's not a bargain, that's like giving it away! I remember when shooting film, I could get a 12xp roll of Fuji Astia or Velvia for $1.00...Oh those were the days huh!
Also decent older equipment and very capable equipment can be had cheap. And if you buy right a decent camera wont loose too much money. Film kit wont depreciate like digital though.
I have a Nikon f2, fma3a, Nikonos V and a few lenses, all worth more now than i payed. Ive had them all a while now and did buy a old D600 so i can use old glass and shoot/learn/practice. I travel with work currently in the Maldives and used the nikonos on the weekend.
If you kit up with all the latest greatest digital gear your going to loose €$¥£¥$€ over time as it becomes outdated.
Its all a balance. For me its just a hobby, and I love owning the cameras, the fm3a especially is so nice to use, its collected some precious memories and the d600 for £350 is a good tool but it can frustrate me and piss me off when the f2/fm3a just work.
If you have lots of money go crazy, if not go for sole older gear. And if its a hobby The cost of film is just the film and development costs.
I would say no. Film is not to expensive.
Great video thanks
Cheers Roger! Both of lightleeked shots look like You shoot them with sun in yer back, high up. There could be a leak from viewfinder box, near the hinge on the mirror. Try some test shot with flashlight at an angle straight into finder. Hope that helps to find the source of trouble.
Great tip, thank you. i have 4 Soviet camera kits and one in particular has some problems. I have renewed seals where necessary with 1mm camera foam. What I do now with these old cameras, I have a roll of TESA tape, cloth tape slightly sticky on the back side, after loading a film I tape all the rear door joins with it. A simple way to reduce risk AND it gives the camera added grip in your hand.
I'm 75 and grew up shooting film. Today film serves two purposes for me. First is my art. I need negatives for my Cyanotypes. Then I want film for fun. I still enjoy taking pictures, sending the film off, and getting prints back. By prints I mean real darkroom photos. Sadly, this option no longer exists for me. So for years now I've had to develop and process my own film. While I miss the "magic" of sending my film out, I've learned that doing it myself is very satisfying and often I get better results. And too, now I can find out what's on the exposed film I find in old cameras.
Thanks Dale. Good to hear you're developing. I've never come across exposed film in a camera yet. I imagine it's great to see the images.
I'm looking forward to developing my own soon, and it's another offshoot of doing things differently in terms of using older techniques, which I already do to a large extent with electronic music production. I just got the CZ delivered for my £7 praktica and have now entered the world of 35mm. I love Polaroid, and also instax wide, but I'm looking forward to getting out and about with the Praktica; my first SLR. I'm lucky to have a good friend who used to teach a photography degree and did prints for a chap whose shots are in the V&A and the Met, but the back up of vids like this really helps a we all have to find our own way and look into different areas for what does and doesn't work
Glad I stubbled upon your channel. I shoot portra with my Rolleicord and got a leica m4 but so far out of 5 rolls only a feq good images came out right but I’m determined to master it
Enjoy your videos.. but your methodology for finding the light leak is highly flawed. If the leak marks are at regular intervals related to the distance between frames then it is the camera responsible. Also, if the leak mark is in the sky area of your landscape orientation pics then the leak is from the base area of the camera, as the image is inverted when it reaches the film. It is the light levels in the shooting environment combined with the length of time between shots that determins the magnitude of the artifact. It is most likely to be from the bottom edge of the door latching journal. I suggest you find an easy over ever ready case for the Cosina and leave the base part on when out and about shooting. Keep up with your inspiring videos. 😉
most likely
Cheers. Yes I had more time to think on it. It's coming from the bottom. It was a bright day and some were more dense than others maybe where I was walking around for a period of time in sunny areas. More investigating!
I sold most of my film cameras (120, 6x6, 6x7 cameras and some 35mm film cameras) but still have most of the lenses I adapt and two cheap 35mm film cameras, the Praktica TL3 and the Minolta X300s. I don't shoot much film these days due to rising costs. I still have 4 rolls of Kentmere Pan 100 that I'll shoot this year, after that, I doubt I'll carry on with film. There are still companies like AG Photographic here in the UK which have reasonable negative development prices £4.99 per roll for black and white and C41 from £4.49 if people don't want to develop their own film. As you say it's a hobby and most hobbies cost so if you enjoy it, carry on shooting film :) Nice video as always.
Film is so expensive nowadays that some people are buying old DSLRs with CCD sensors that, some say, render images similar to film...
This is so trendy that prices of old DSLRs are rising too!
I just paid $ 18 a roll delived , b&w hp5 , home developing adds an extra excitement when the missus comes home & sees the mess in the kitchen
In Canada a roll of Ektachrome is $30 & the processing is $15.
That's crazy
Yes and no.
If I were to take as many pictures analog as I do digitally, it would be expensive.
I don't smoke, I don't drink and what friends smoke on two days is almost the sum of what I spend a month on analogue photography.
Analog is something special and the pictures are usually more popular at friends, acquaintances or followers than the digital ones.
What's the use of thousands of digital photos if they are stored somewhere and rarely viewed at all,
If only a roll of film from vacation could tell more.
If you show framed pictures, they are looked at much longer and discussed even more.
Just recently we sat over a picture of my grandparents at their wedding in 1946 for over an hour and discussed so many things.
I can't remember ever longer focusing on display for images.
I prefer to shoot mine in black and white.
It's classic, timeless and draws the eye to the subject more than the blue sky or water, the sun or an overcast sky.
Well said.
Back in the 70s and 80s film was very expensive and the cost of silver drove the cost of film. I suspect that we are jaded nowadays because film was so cheap until recently.
As for the light leak, I have 25 35mm SLRs and have replaced the seals on most of them. One a Konica AutoReflex TC had the exact same problem and it was intermittent like yours. After lots trials, I finally discovered that some cameras have a foam seal at the latch end of the door. The Konica had one and it was degraded. The intermittent leak happened because my hand covered the door crack. Well, I replaced the foam, and the camera is now right as rain. Subsequently, I have found several other brands have a similar seal. It is very easy to overlook.
P.S. Just checked my SLRs made or designed by Chinon ( Ricoh Singlex TLS, GAF L-17) and both have the foam seal at the latch side.
Good one. M42 bodies, lenses and fomapan are a good combo, get good results and keep costs down. That said, I think I will try my own developing and may be scanning to get costs down further.
Double check your new seals and make sure they are tight and not occasionally "rolling over in spots. Also check the leafs in the lens and see if one of them is not closing as fast as the rest. Great video Roger
Cheers. I ripped them out and replaced again. I missed one on the door hinge which looked okay so maybe it will fix it
Really depends on what you are doing. B/W can be quite cheap. A roll of 135 Fomapan 100 is a tad under 5€ in Germany, whereas an Ektachrome 100 easily surpasses 25€, which is utterly ridiculous. When shooting slides, I use Provia 100F (around 20€), in B/W I usually shoot HP5, which is around 7-8€. E-6 processing however is quite cheap (3-5€). Yes, it's a relatively expensive hobby, but I love it to bits...
I also shoot 120s in my Pentacon six. I can still get everything I need, so I'm fine with that...
I would not rule out that there was a light leak with the film canister. It really sounds like the only thing left and your test roll had no light leaks. BTW I am a film shooter mostly medium format. For me it is the only way to go.
Cost?
I just purchased a used Nikon D3300 due to unavailability of any but the most expensive digital cameras, lenses and SD cards.
Film photography can be expensive over a long time period, but basic lenses are less expensive for the less popular film camera brands.
I would consider digital as being currently more expensive than film for someone does not own a DSLR or mirrorless camera.
Film photography,is amazing,,for me it's the right way to learn photography, it's all manual all the time. Im still using my DSLRs along with my film camera,, when you have both at hand the difference is quite surprising,, if your grandparents or parents have had a camera past down to them check it out, promise you will love it,,,
I spoke to a guy yesterday. Getting into film as his Grandad passed down his gear
Well im going to develope it myself so costs will come down but i will use a dslr for some of the work to make money to pay for the hobby. But inflation vs what we have been paying... isnt there yet. But we forget that the manufacturer costs and training with new equiptment isnt cheap either. And will take a few years to catch up.
really welcome this perspective and totally agree!
..i am photographing with film since 1987 and never stopped, yes some films are expensive, and some readings in the net said kodak will go up with prices 50% more.....a film that costs around € 24,-- is expensive...BW films are ok...and what about now when kodak can not or will not produce film.....here in austria no way to buy kodak 200 gold...there is no film and only some last portra to find....i am lucky because a few month ago i started to buy in every shop i found lots of my favorite film...so i have about 400 pieces of film, 120 and 135, in a big fridge....greets BM
400 or so rolls. Wow. Well done 👍
Great comment on the cost of shooting film. I do agree. I am getting back into photography. I was missing having an outlet for my creativity. Currently use a Minolta x700 and a Nikon FE3. My Nikon F5 is due for delivery tomorrow!
Great camera the F5... Enjoy!
That photo of the church and lamp was really cool.
Thanks Arty
Hi, 100% agree. Most hobbies are expensive. Golf, cooking, gardening are just a few examples. The cheapest is probably skipping rocks or playing solitaire. Film, IMHO due to the lowish entry
cost is not expensive when compared to digital, you’ll spend 2x at a minimum for a digital camera & lens. PC’s to run software, and steep learning curve is not cheap. A K1000 Pentax and a very good Super Takumar 50mm is very cheap. Shoot a couple of rolls, send in for development and you’ll likely be happy. Digitizing can be done by copying with a phone. It’s a hobby.
My answer is no, shooting with film is not expensive, especially if you choose reels , (30.5 meters of fomapan 100 costs 48 Euros) Rodinal is super cheap and lasts a lifetime.
A b/w pic costs less than 8 cents in R09 + Ilford fixer, less if devv in Caffenol
Daje Roger! Sei tutti noi!
If you want perfect, cheap and immediately shareable images, there is our mobile phone!
Think it all depends where you are. Here in the UK that same bulk 30.5 meters of Fomapan 100 cost £27 two years ago, now it's doubled to £58 - £60.
I shall skip the indian takeaway Martin for a tin of foma 😂
I still try to shoot a couple of film rolls a year.
It is expensive and it takes days to develop.
This is 2023, digital is the way to go.
Thank you!! This was great; I love seeing photogs "in action" followed by the results!!!! 💟🎞📸😺
Just getting back in to film after 10yrs; about to swing into some @home development. This vid+your style has got me excited! : D
I was out with my Chinon CX yesterday. First time I've put a roll of film through it, so looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Interesting camera.
Hope they came out well Neville.
I've been watching your show for about two years and I've finally dusted off my Pentax p30 and shot a few rolls (developed with a Paterson tank I bought for my birthday 😁). The anticipation and excitement is what got me hooked. The possibility of disappointment just makes the anticipation more intense.
Question: I've been thinking of buying a bulk roll of film to reduce costs but used film loaders are almost as expensive as new ones where I live. Is there a way to load film without the film loader?
Haven't ventured there yet, but by considering it twinned with the info I have gathered on the process:
Would be difficult to:
》Find a way to jam into the canister
》COUNT the number of frames
》Keep the bulk roll together
》Spooling using what?
》Will it be do-able in the DARK??
****That being said if LO-FI has taught us anything is that *anything* is possible with enough DIY!!!! 》》》》somewhere *someone* is doing this successfully!!《《《《
I think the closest vision is using a stick (through the bulk roll) mounted on posts [In the 100% dark] at waist height for the BULK and just winding on the CASETTE spool free hand (like you would for a dev_tank_spool) and then popping it BACK into the reloadable cartridge (with extra tail) at the very end. !!Don't forget the tape-down on spindle!!
》GOOD LUCK!! Hope this helped《
Leaking film canister. Film leader closing only the bottom parts properly . Second time the the film leader is cut straight - opening is closed from bottom to top . Film canister is exposed to strong light for to long before loaded to the camera .
( Some film , specially infrared , sensitive for this . - Infra film canister must handle and load to the camera in total darkness )
(Sorry for my English )
I'm love your channel
Peter
I was wrong. Not realized the light leak in frame number 24 is the strongest . The film is on the take on spule when You cut the film light leak in to the changing bag . ( Next to Your arm ? )
Thankyou Peter
Excellent timing on this video as Kodak are just about to increase the prices for their films by 20% - 40%. I used to shoot film all the time years ago. These days, I'm much more selective. I only shoot a bit of film every once in a while and that keeps costs down. Plus I mainly shoot subjects that benefit from film.
Nice video. I think color film is too expensive. If you can even find it in stock. Like you said "shoot as much as you want to shoot" I want to shoot more, but can't afford it.. but there are relatively inexpensive black and white films for sure. I've stopped buying color film and shoot with my Fuji X-Pro2 if I want to shoot color and have started bulk rolling black and white, so it's still a fun hobby.
About the light leaks. I had the same problem with my Nikon F2. I had a roll that had a leak across the bottom of the film frame on nearly every photo, but i'd replaced the seals myself a couple years back. I shot another roll just to be sure and it was perfectly fine. I just put it down to a loading error of some kind.. dunno.
Great video Roger, and, as usual, words of wisdom. It is true that film prices have risen, but looking back twenty years it is not much more than I used to pay, in fact I remember that I used to spend a fortune on a roll of Velvia getting it processed and a few prints made..........I think your analogy regarding the cost of a roll of film, when compared with other activities is very valid, especilally if you factor in the entertainment value/hour. A roll of 120 Ilford Delta is around £8, the cost of a cinema ticket, Two hours sitting in an uncomfortable cinema seat with the sick inducing smell of over priced popcorn compared to the hours of enjoyment outside being creative with a camera ( currently with the bad weather a roll of 120 is lasting weeks), I know which I would prefer to invest in! I admit that large format is a different story, the cost per shot is getting silly, especially if there is no financial return on the end product, and this is the reason that I have not ventured down that road. As you say spend what you can afford! I develop with Rodinal purely because it is soooooo cost effective with it's exceptional shelf life.
In very recent times, Ive noted that the cost of film has more or less doubled - likely due to the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. And if that's not bad enough, Kodak are just about to increase the prices of their films by about 20% - 40% (they claim they're doing this due to the resurgence in film use.) Luckily, I only shoot film every once in a while. I wouldn't be able to afford it if I shot it all the time like I used to.
Spot on Malcolm
Quite expensive when you're talking about having a lab process the film. Learning on a couple of old medium format cams I picked up a few years ago, the E6/slides of course looked great with the vivid color. Unfortunately, with it being $16 a roll to develop, I was really holding back on taking shots and learning because, as you know, you only get 12 tries on a roll and for the cost of developing it, I was being real stingy on shot selection. I switched to BW last summer and just developed the first 4 rolls at home (thanks again for all your vids, Roger). Mathematically, being able to shoot nearly 20x the film compared to the cost for color processing, I was more comfortable taking multiple shots of the same scene at different settings and angles to actually start to learn what looks best. I'll eventually cough up the cash and slip one or two color rolls in later when I know I can get solid pics throughout the roll instead of wildly hoping for one or two.
but with E-6 you can very easily develop that at home. That is what i have been using as my primary way to shoot color film for the past 15 years and have accumulated nearly 10,000 slides! lol. every single one of them developed by myself right at home. it is honestly more simple to process E-6 than traditional black and white is to process. just different chemicals.
@@orion7741 Thanks for the info. My go to place won't ship those chemicals. I went with BW for that reason along with reading that it's a little easier (maybe not per you) and the fact that I picked up an enlarger in fantastic condition for practically nothing to make BW prints. While color chems only yield about 1/4 of BW it's still WAY cheaper than having a lab do it. I did find a store that will ship E6 chem kit so next color rolls I get, I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks again! 👍
It's really not that expensive compared to a lot of other hobbies. You can get a nice medium format camera for a few hundred dollars and shoot Ilford HP5 a few times a month. It's very cheap if you develop and scan/print yourself. Or you could spend a lot more on slide film or portra 400 and get it lab developed and scanned. What's silly to me is the people who want to "save money" by buying a $1200 digital camera with film simulations. That's a lot of film shooting before they even start to break even. It''s a hobby, shoot what you can afford to and enjoy it.
I would like to find some old copies of AP or the like to check but I guess that, in real terms, film is way cheaper than it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s when I was using loads of the stuff. I used to buy bulk FP4 and process myself using D76 or Microphen. Inflation is about 14 fold since 1968 (my reference year as it was when I left school). If you go by wage inflation I think it's even cheaper in terms of time worked to earn a roll of film now than it was back then (my starting pay, 1 shilling and 9 pence / hour, translates with inflation to the equivalent of £1.22/hour now).
Great informative video as always. I love film for all the reasons you mentioned. Expensive? Maybe. Especially since I have to send it off to a lab for development (my house is on a septic, and I don't want to mess that up with chemicals - that could make it really expensive 🙂). But then, when I see what some people spend on coffee each week....
Great video Roger. Film is like any other hobby, if your gaining good mental health, friends, etc then it’s worth it.
Hey Aly!
Really enjoyable and thoughtful video, Roger.
Good luck finding the leak.
Was that your Belmira in the video? I have one but could never get reliable shutter speeds so it is now a shelf queen with a lovely flash attachment. Beautiful camera.
Yes it was. Works too! ☺️
For me it is very important that you create a physical product (the negative), that you can hold it in your hands and lives forever.If you water print it you create two physical products you ca hold in your hands.For everything physical you have to pay,but there is no comparison with a digital (air) file who lives in a hard drive,you have to go to a monitor to see it,almost nobody prints it and it is for sure that someday you will loose this image.
Thanks for another really good video Roger. I've tried to do price comparisons over decades before, it's not a precise science, but it seems film is still fairly priced. I think the price pressures for us hobbyists come as much from a decreasing disposable income, thanks to increasing energy prices etc. I've found careful choice of which film to shoot, buying it in bulk rolls and making developer at home has really helped.
I think so Stig. I do cringe when I see £15 a roll. Glad Ilford are sensible price for us
I totally agree, when you take a cost comparison of film film 30 years ago there's not a big difference in £6 of Kodak ektra 35mm in 1990 is approximately £17.50 today and that's not far of the price of it.
Great video as per usual Roger. I don’t think cost is the only elephant in the room. Investment in new production machinery is the other issue. All the big manufacturers are struggling with old machinery that is difficult to replace and service. That could be what might kill the hobby in the long term. Let’s hope not.
Let's hope not Neil 🙂
You can buy a roll of fomapan 24exp 35mm for as little as £3.75. Home-development saves a ton!
I have moved on to digital where I buy top of the line amateur/pro body. The way I moved away from film was simple. I payed on average of $20.oo a roll way back then, so a $2000. camera is only 100 rolls of film cost. Full coat of film, developing and digitizing of the film.
Well. Prices have certainly gone up significantly. I have purchased in early 2020 a few bulk rolls of FP4 and HP5. Each one cost me 89 Euros (as per my invoice). Now, as of August 2023, the very same film stock would cost me 127 Euros per bulk roll from the same dealer. Ektachrome used to cost 15 Euros per roll in 2020. Now they are at 26 bucks per roll.
I know shooting film never was "cheap" by any stretch, no matter if you were a professional shooter in the heyday of film or a broke but enthusiastic youngster. But things have gotten pretty ridiculous of late, pricewise. Does that stop me? No. But the hobby got a LOT more expensive in the past three years, not helped at all by a certain public health crisis.
(Edit: correction: I mixed up Ektar & Ektachrome)
great video myself i use fomapan and kentmere as you can get it for a good price just started developing myself and that is down to you and really enjoying it i take photos just for the joy of it.
As others have said, it's too simple just to say digital pix are free. There is a very high upfront cost, any top quality dslr or mirrorless is at least a thousand dollars, and lenses are pretty expensive too. Backup storage disks, Lightroom and Photoshop are now both monthly subscriptions, although there are pretty good single cost alternatives. But that gets you a lot of film and developer. There is a big range of film costs from cheap black and white (Fomapan, Kentmere) to pricey color and slide film (Kodak anyone?) I got a Sputnik medium format stereo camera with a bad light leak along the bottom edge. I tried all kinds of fixes to no effect, until I recalled that the image inside the camera is inverted, so light leak at the bottom of the images was at the top not bottom seal of the camera. Some black tape along the seal after loading the film seems to have solved the problem.
Yes of course it's inverted as someone else mentioned I realised that after ha ha. Replaced the seals again hopefully..
.
TO look for light leaks I find a small LED lamp that fits inside the camera and take it in a dark room to see if light leaks out of it anywhere. About your light leaks, several of them are in the same place. Maybe the back door wasn't completely closed when you loaded that roll?
Using film is a hobby! There are no cheap hobbies. Are you interested in the process or the end result. Using a film camera, developing and printing, to admire a hard copy.Using a digital camera, learning to Photoshop the results, and admiring the results on a big screen hi def monitor. The digital route can give you all the joy of choosing equipment, manipulating the image, and enjoy the result on a big screen monitor. There is no way you can blow up a 35mm film to the image size of a 60 in hi-deft monitor and maintain clarity.
Color is way cheaper to dev and scan at home ONCE you have the setup. Dev and scan is $35 a roll with postage both ways in the USA.
I think your light leaks are the camera back. They are in the same place each time and density will vary depending on the time delay between each shot and the ambient light brightness…
Thanks Chris.
i just started with film a month ago.. its expensive but i love it.
Another good video. Thank you sir for all you do. Yeah it is getting pricey as my favorite film is triax. I suppose I can try other brands. I can afford it but then comes the question, am I being responsible towards my family. I am strictly a hobbyist. I have kind of had the thought that since my refrigerator is full of film that I may just dwindle that down and see what happens. I probably have enough to shoot 2 years worth. The problem is I don't have that volume of triax which is my go-to film. I have a lot of Acros and a brick of HP5. A lot of 120. I also have a fair amount of color print film but I just don't use a lot of it.
Tri X is a beautiful film. And with Kodak hiking prices and alternative for you may be on the cards. I love Tri X but it's a treat now and again. Had a 100ft tin a while back. Nearly gone 🥴
Most of my hobby film cameras are Nikons but I picked up a couple of chinons CE4-s CM4 abs CE5 nice fun camera to use for peanuts lenses are dirt cheap and any PK mount lenses will work on them if your careful film photography should not break the bank 🏦
I would look at the bottom of the camera for leaks, no? Pics are upside down in camera (like on a 4x5). Sorry if I got this wrong.
Another great video! Having just started down the road to back to film I can say it is a bit pricey but what isn't now? For my fist venture back into film I'm only planing of developing the film and then scan my results. My scanning process is using my Sony A7III with a Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro lens on an old photo copy stand I still had from years back. I watched you light leak issue with interest as I've just replaced the seals in two of the old cameras I'm planing to play with. I still have one more to replace the seals in. Hoping for good results!
Kodak have really increased their prices a roll of colorplus 200 is now around the €10 mark. I think it would be easier to absorb if Kodak committed to bring out new films or rerelease some of their discontinued films.
At least we have ilford and foma carry the torch.