I was so glad to see this get released. It is the cheapest color 4x5 (25 sheets for $109 vs ~75 for ten sheets in Kodak.) I have been only shooting B&W with my large format.
I would probably shoot more 800t if it was significantly less than Portra, as a fun alternative. But with prices as high as they are now, why would anyone not just buy Portra, or Gold 200 for that matter. Another cool thing Cinestill does is make accessories/developing accessible and easy to understand. I use their water heater and easy c41 chemistry and it’s great. I did get bummed with all the patent bully stuff going on, and I still think about that. I do think it has affected my buying of Cinestill product. But in the grand scheme I think there are far more egregious and unnecessary patents than a random film number. So meh.
My least favorite thing about the world of analog film is people who have literally no idea about the complexity of running a business like this having all kinds of opinions on it. People questioning the motivations, saying things can be cheaper, etc. all without the burden of actual in-depth knowledge of what it takes to keep this field even going.
True, if people knew how hard it is to make film photography a sustainable business they wouldnt say the same things. From cameras to repairs, chemicals, labs, etc... its not easy.
A fast color film in 4x5 that is affordable is important. I just shot the first 4 sheets of my kickstarter box. My experience with it in 120 suggests that the halation won’t be a huge problem as you go up in format.
Unlike everyone seeming to enjoy bashing people and knocking them down, I an glad to see a ray of light here. Nico has been around the block a TON of times and knows the ropes inside and out. I for one am very glad he is still here.
@@TheKyleealyyeah lol people are bashing them for trying to trademark 800T. It’s literally just a descriptive term for a specific type of film and they’re bullying smaller distributors. Of course they deserve hate.
I would bet that most film shooters have no idea about the process of getting film produced and finished (noting that "finished" means cut, rolled and packaged), let alone the distribution. Cinestill isn't my style, but I went in on the 400D pre-order as we need to be supporting the whole production chain of film if we hope to keep it alive.
I know more people shooting 4x5 than ever before, but we're talking YOUNG people like 16-30. we really do need some kind of cheaper options for color sheet film and while Cinestill and reflx lab did take a step forward in that aspect it would be nice if Kodak themselves supported that community more. If they released gold 200 in medium format, then obviously the next step up is 4x5.
Sorry if it's a bit unrelated, but does anyone have any news about the Orwo NC200 film that's supposed to release this year? Nico mentioned it looked more normal than the others and I'd love to give it a go when/if it finally hits the shelves. Great content, love your videos.
Cinestil has been a great help in the film resurgence and should get praise for all that work,. We all make mistakes, key to to learn and move forward.
If they had learned from their mistakes, they would relinquish their patent on 800T, an ill-gotten patent that should never have been granted on a technical term. Until they kill that patent, they obviously have not learned their lesson.
@@jw48335 its more complicated than just relinquishing the patent. I think it was not needed on all the patent stuff but its undeniable that they made 800T a thing to the an average film user.
I love shooting film, primarily in 35mm and 120 but Cinestill has never been a vendor whose products called to me. I’d be more than happy to see them go bust after they showed their greed by preventing others from accomplishing the same generic (not trade secret or proprietary) process to generate greater competition in the market.
Good to hear some history and insight along with overall being optimistic about the film industry. Mistakes happen and not everything that companies do is going to be the right choice. Complaining about prices up and down is not going to fix anything, yes it could be cheaper but then that is less money to build upon getting more film created (yes it could be going into the pockets of those making it but we don't know). Overall I buy Cinestill film and I enjoy the results. From a professional standpoint, getting perfectly clean results from film is almost pointless if you ask me. High end professional work can be shot digitally and emulated while leaving film for a more artistic result.
We are still trying to figure out what 400D is exactly. It's base is purple like all ECN-2, most of us guess it's 250D except Cinestill says it's not 250D. So what is it if it's not 250D? There are not many options and they don't have the ability to make their own film. Personally I think they are flat out lying and it is 250D only because all other options seem very unlikely.
I think they are using the same emulsion as 250d, but Kodak sells them master rolls without any Remjet applied to the back of the film. So technically it’s not 250d where they remove the Remjet, because it just wasn’t added to begin with.
it's not "re-spooled" 250D. They cut the film and spool it themselves from a giant 250D wholesale roll. the emulsion is 250D but it was never branded or cut by kodak as such, so cinestill takes the credit.
I prefer the Refxlab 4x5 because it is aerocolor which I greatly prefer for look and no halation. I do not think that any company can own a designation like 800T. That isn't a trademark but a ISO and color designation
Yeah, I didn't see it as that big of a deal. People these days will get their thongs tangled for anything. I have been buying from cinestill for years - and it has always been a good experience, and I bought some of this 4x5 soon as it came out.
They sent out cease and desists to small film production companies selling the exact same product… cuz they didn’t like the use of “800 Tungsten” when both films are just washed vision 3 kodak film stocks. Not to mention cinestill handled the situation awfully n practically mocked these small companies. They are scum dude.
I’m gonna say this, yes, I agree that Cinestill has made a bad decision in regard to that situation that happened months ago and I understand the frustrations people have with them. At the same time though, I’ll play devil’s advocate and say from a business standpoint, I’d understand why Cinestill sent the letters, and this isn’t saying what they did morally was good but legally, they can. In my personal opinion, while I’m not gonna forget what they did, I still plan on buying their products in the future
Yeah the hate they get is too much. After all they have given a lot to the film photography world. But I really think they should not do the trademark thing ever again. It’s not good for the availability of the already dwindling films out there. That said, I’m buying all my 800T and 400D from reflx lab just because they are cheaper. I mean that’s one of the reasons why motion film re-spooling existed right? To be a cheaper alternative.
Cinestill is purely a marketing company. They hire other firms to produce, modify, and finish the film they sell. Plain and simple. Glad 4x5 has another option, but it's a really crappy one at that, even if it is comparatively cheap. It's not as bad a Phoenix, but it's close.
Most companies today (in other industries apart from film) do the same. Most manufacturing companies fail at marketing and its best they stay behind the lines in that case. But Cinestill has done a great job at making a different product available for still photography, even if the main ingredient is not cooked in their kitchen.
I was so glad to see this get released. It is the cheapest color 4x5 (25 sheets for $109 vs ~75 for ten sheets in Kodak.) I have been only shooting B&W with my large format.
400D in 220 would be a dream and since it would be the only US option it would probably sell like crazy
I miss the 220 days, it was so fun to shoot it on 6x7 and get 20 or 21 frames out of it.
Thank you for your perspective - describing the "big picture" of the world of analog photography and film production.
Thanks! I try to expand what we sometimes miss from our small niche.
I would probably shoot more 800t if it was significantly less than Portra, as a fun alternative. But with prices as high as they are now, why would anyone not just buy Portra, or Gold 200 for that matter.
Another cool thing Cinestill does is make accessories/developing accessible and easy to understand. I use their water heater and easy c41 chemistry and it’s great.
I did get bummed with all the patent bully stuff going on, and I still think about that. I do think it has affected my buying of Cinestill product. But in the grand scheme I think there are far more egregious and unnecessary patents than a random film number. So meh.
My least favorite thing about the world of analog film is people who have literally no idea about the complexity of running a business like this having all kinds of opinions on it. People questioning the motivations, saying things can be cheaper, etc. all without the burden of actual in-depth knowledge of what it takes to keep this field even going.
True, if people knew how hard it is to make film photography a sustainable business they wouldnt say the same things. From cameras to repairs, chemicals, labs, etc... its not easy.
A fast color film in 4x5 that is affordable is important. I just shot the first 4 sheets of my kickstarter box.
My experience with it in 120 suggests that the halation won’t be a huge problem as you go up in format.
Thats good to know, need to pick up a box when its back in stock.
Unlike everyone seeming to enjoy bashing people and knocking them down, I an glad to see a ray of light here. Nico has been around the block a TON of times and knows the ropes inside and out. I for one am very glad he is still here.
I think they deserve their flowers for their contribution to the industry, but people aren't bashing them for no reason.
@@TheKyleealyyeah lol people are bashing them for trying to trademark 800T. It’s literally just a descriptive term for a specific type of film and they’re bullying smaller distributors. Of course they deserve hate.
I would bet that most film shooters have no idea about the process of getting film produced and finished (noting that "finished" means cut, rolled and packaged), let alone the distribution. Cinestill isn't my style, but I went in on the 400D pre-order as we need to be supporting the whole production chain of film if we hope to keep it alive.
facts
Agree, its quite a complex situation. Maybe worth a cool video with graphics and such about how it all works.
I'm new to film and I only know about them because they have the DF96 monobath. That was the first chemistry I used and I am glad they are around.
Any " affordable " large format color film is always a great idea
Saludos Brian!!
@@NicosPhotographyShow Saludos espero, que todo valla bien por alla !
I know more people shooting 4x5 than ever before, but we're talking YOUNG people like 16-30. we really do need some kind of cheaper options for color sheet film and while Cinestill and reflx lab did take a step forward in that aspect it would be nice if Kodak themselves supported that community more. If they released gold 200 in medium format, then obviously the next step up is 4x5.
Solid points! Really interesting to hear your perspective 👏
Is this the end for this channel?
Sorry if it's a bit unrelated, but does anyone have any news about the Orwo NC200 film that's supposed to release this year? Nico mentioned it looked more normal than the others and I'd love to give it a go when/if it finally hits the shelves. Great content, love your videos.
I’m biased, but I think CineStill is incredible.
They do good stuff, not my kind of film stock but they are a good option to have.
Cinestil has been a great help in the film resurgence and should get praise for all that work,. We all make mistakes, key to to learn and move forward.
If they had learned from their mistakes, they would relinquish their patent on 800T, an ill-gotten patent that should never have been granted on a technical term. Until they kill that patent, they obviously have not learned their lesson.
@@jw48335 its more complicated than just relinquishing the patent. I think it was not needed on all the patent stuff but its undeniable that they made 800T a thing to the an average film user.
This is great news and brings colour into the affordable (ish) bracket. Though, personally I've never developed colour at home!
I love shooting film, primarily in 35mm and 120 but Cinestill has never been a vendor whose products called to me. I’d be more than happy to see them go bust after they showed their greed by preventing others from accomplishing the same generic (not trade secret or proprietary) process to generate greater competition in the market.
Did they try to trademark 400D yet?
Good to hear some history and insight along with overall being optimistic about the film industry. Mistakes happen and not everything that companies do is going to be the right choice. Complaining about prices up and down is not going to fix anything, yes it could be cheaper but then that is less money to build upon getting more film created (yes it could be going into the pockets of those making it but we don't know). Overall I buy Cinestill film and I enjoy the results. From a professional standpoint, getting perfectly clean results from film is almost pointless if you ask me. High end professional work can be shot digitally and emulated while leaving film for a more artistic result.
We are still trying to figure out what 400D is exactly. It's base is purple like all ECN-2, most of us guess it's 250D except Cinestill says it's not 250D. So what is it if it's not 250D? There are not many options and they don't have the ability to make their own film. Personally I think they are flat out lying and it is 250D only because all other options seem very unlikely.
It 100% is 250D. Cinestill marketing is just saying marketing stuff.
@@eatfrog until someone who knows for sure what it is, I don't think anyone can say 100% so let's just say there is a 99% chance it's 250D.
I think they are using the same emulsion as 250d, but Kodak sells them master rolls without any Remjet applied to the back of the film. So technically it’s not 250d where they remove the Remjet, because it just wasn’t added to begin with.
@@hkleinespel Remjet does not define a film stock. It's 250D with or without Remjet
it's not "re-spooled" 250D. They cut the film and spool it themselves from a giant 250D wholesale roll. the emulsion is 250D but it was never branded or cut by kodak as such, so cinestill takes the credit.
Love cinestill! Id be curious to see what else they have in the pipeline.
waiting for the E100 sales
love cinestill, hate any angry mob. no one is perfect
i tried 400d but i did not like the color rendering in natural light.
I prefer the Refxlab 4x5 because it is aerocolor which I greatly prefer for look and no halation. I do not think that any company can own a designation like 800T. That isn't a trademark but a ISO and color designation
I hope to one day make a proper video on that situation.
(Money. They made it for money.)
I thought we are all into film for the passion, who wants to pay bills, not me!
The amount of willful ignorance and determined hate for Cinestill is absurd. I'm pretty over it, even if they're definitely not perfect.
Yeah, I didn't see it as that big of a deal. People these days will get their thongs tangled for anything. I have been buying from cinestill for years - and it has always been a good experience, and I bought some of this 4x5 soon as it came out.
Agreed!! Hope all is well Jamie!
They sent out cease and desists to small film production companies selling the exact same product… cuz they didn’t like the use of “800 Tungsten” when both films are just washed vision 3 kodak film stocks. Not to mention cinestill handled the situation awfully n practically mocked these small companies. They are scum dude.
I’m gonna say this, yes, I agree that Cinestill has made a bad decision in regard to that situation that happened months ago and I understand the frustrations people have with them. At the same time though, I’ll play devil’s advocate and say from a business standpoint, I’d understand why Cinestill sent the letters, and this isn’t saying what they did morally was good but legally, they can. In my personal opinion, while I’m not gonna forget what they did, I still plan on buying their products in the future
Yeah the hate they get is too much. After all they have given a lot to the film photography world. But I really think they should not do the trademark thing ever again. It’s not good for the availability of the already dwindling films out there. That said, I’m buying all my 800T and 400D from reflx lab just because they are cheaper. I mean that’s one of the reasons why motion film re-spooling existed right? To be a cheaper alternative.
Cinestill is purely a marketing company. They hire other firms to produce, modify, and finish the film they sell. Plain and simple. Glad 4x5 has another option, but it's a really crappy one at that, even if it is comparatively cheap. It's not as bad a Phoenix, but it's close.
Most companies today (in other industries apart from film) do the same. Most manufacturing companies fail at marketing and its best they stay behind the lines in that case. But Cinestill has done a great job at making a different product available for still photography, even if the main ingredient is not cooked in their kitchen.
Yeah… I’m still not supporting CinesShit
Nothing perfected about 800t. Still hot garbage. Garbage company too.
Good to hear your perspective, I havent really shot it myself so cant speak much about the properties of the film.